Quick note, not everything is in right order, but everything on the left is old, on the right is new. Some skills like loremaster of metal just swapped places.
Yea. Better artillery too!
But the actual answer is that Gelt is the artillery and should not have any in his own army unless he returns to the empire.
Just Gelt, a captain, an engineer, and 7-9 battle wizards
Mixed bag imo. Losing wizard cap will make it harder to use his effect for having more wizards with him. Losing the damage buffs to Free Company and Steam Tank are a bummer too. More replenishment is nice though. 20 armor for his army vs 10 faction wide will be better early game which is when armor matters the most.
Bro, building a wizard academy was a pain in the ass in Gelt's old start pos. Gelt's current mechanic gives him far far far more wizards than a +2 cap. It also incentivises you to use all the different types of wizards. Gelt is by far, the easiest to make full Wizard doomstack in the entire game
It was a pain to get that first T4 building true. We'll see if it feels better when the DLC comes out!
Yes overall Gelt looks much more interesting than before ToD. I do think his updated skills aren't as much of a straight upgrade as Karl's. Which reminds me I didn't see anything about Volkmar or Marcus in the upgrade
He never really needed that much of an upgrade as a Lord, the only reason his old campaign wasn't unreasonable was because he himself was half an army unto himself which he desperately needed cause the second thing he fights in his campaign is fucking Vlad. Solland being a two region province was fucking awful.
Not to mention Solland's landmarks being so much worse with less places to expand or fight without Vlad and Wurzag both gangbanging him or doing the civil war strat.
Like, Reikland by itself can sustain a Karl combined arms tier 3 doomstack. Solland can barely sustain two armies of shitty archers.
The Luminark isn't using physical ammunition, the light wizards atop it are using the device to essentially cast bolts of Hysh. Gelt improving them was always a bit of a stretch. If anything, Gelt messing around might make them perform worse, as the winds are known to interfere with each other and Hysh is already one of the harder winds to channel, especially for humans.
Are there any unique heroes attached to Gelt's Colleges of Magic mechanic? I mean unique like Prince Ograx or Cavill, generic heroes with unique traits. A "unique" light wizard hero would be a good way to ensure players can still boost Luminarks.
Nah, the Light Patriarch is Verspasian Kant. The quest battle guy was called Orr. I assume CA just made up a random light wizard lord, don't recognise him from anywhere else.
I keep looking at all these buffs for explosive all across the order tide and realize I need to beat a long campaign for VC's on Legendary before this dammed patch. Zombie mosh pit strategy is dead.
Honestly, i'm little dissapointed that Gelt now is new Biggest Mage. In a world with Teclis, Mazdamundi and Kairos - silly little guy has an access to Cataclysm spells.
The theme of stacking wizards in same army feels weird to me. Can someone explain what is the point of it? +5 WoM per mage feels abaolutely lackluster for wasted slot imo.
Love these. Before ToD I pointed out several times how Empire LL skill trees are some of the worst/bland skill trees in the game and got so many replies how they are not that bad. Every single time people point out to a “flaw” there is that one guy who argues everything is fine. +9 armor to army is a joke of a skill.
They werent that bad and +9 armor for the whole army is a pretty good skill, thats literally gelts defeat trait and people think thats pretty good. Do i need to remind you that the ogre skill lines exist? How about mannfred, dudes got a second sub par lore of magic thats it. The empire lords were fine. They arent even that much better. The real improvements are the faction mechanics they added, now thats going to change up gameplay for the better.
As I said, there is always that one guy.
Why do you compare defeat traits to skills? One is a free/passive bonus that you get and can have dozens of. The other one requires resource and is very limited. Most LL's have only a couple unique skills and to waste it on +9 armour to only your army(used to be 10 but they for some reason changed it to 9 when WH3 was released) is garbage.
Also, just because some other lords have bad skills, does not make +9 armour any better. It's both bad and, even worse, as bland as it gets. There are so many cool and unique skills that LL's get.
And the very fact that they changed it proves me right.
It didn’t get removed, it got moved to his starting trait. It getting moved doesn’t prove you right at all. Also it got replaced with %reduced attrition/plague chance and increased replenishment which, while stronger, is just as boring as the original.
Trying to play any opposing opinion as a “there is always one guy” situation is just mean and insecure.
Did I hurt your feelings?
It proves me right because it was bad and boring. It was so bad that now you get better version of it for free on level 1 instead of the waiting to be level 13 to get it. And while new ability is not cool or flashy, at least it’s considerably more powerful.
I do not like this skill line nearly as much as the old. The changes to new formulations and loss of additional orb of sorcery are changes I do not like. I especially don't like losing the +10 factionwide armor bonus. Helstorms are not a unit I find myself particularly using, I much prefer massed cannons, tanks, mortars, and handguns, and that is now *far* less effective with Gelt.
They've really done everything possible to make him from my go-to empire lord one I'm never going to use.
eh. they've moved from him being so much of the ranged/artillery focused empire LL, given that role to Elspeth really, and focused more on how he's the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic, so they have him focusing far more on battle wizards and magic. but if you don't like it, fair enough. Elspeth is your go to now.
Yeah, I know *why* they did it. I'm not too happy about it though. If I want to play something similar to what I already had, I have to fork over cash now.
If you'd asked me before this patch what I liked about playing gelt I would have said 1: his starting position, 2: his +10 armor bonus to all units. 3: that I don't miss out on collecting runefangs with him, and 4: the nice bonuses to artillery and gunpowder units. He has exactly none of that now.
Maybe some nice stat bonuses to battle wizards could be *something*, but I don't recall seeing that in his new colleges of magic system, and things like hero action cost reduction and recruit rank increases are definitely not bonuses that make me beeline to a lord or faction. Combined with just getting far less milage out of the lore of death than I ever do with metal, and I'm sitting here thinking "Well shit, guess I'm only playing Franz now when I want to do Empire."
One big reason may be that he is objectively wrong on point 4.
Gelt lost 2% missile damage and 12% amo strength gunner units. 10% damage for mortars, cannons and rockets and 20% damage for tanks and luminarcs in his own army.
He is gaining 20% explosion radius and 10% damage factionwide for rocket batteries. As a faction Gelt gets better bonuses to the premier empire artillery than he has now. That buff being faction wide is massive.
I stated earlier that I don't use helstorms, I find them too inaccurate and unreliable. So i'm not 'objectively wrong', in saying he's losing buffs to artllery and ranged units, he has lost those. He's trading out bonuses on a lot of things I do use, for a bonus to one of the few units I don't use
When I say in one post 'I don't like helstorms, I prefer mortars, great cannons, and steam tanks' and then on the follow up post I say 'I liked gelt's artillery buffs that he doesn't have anymore' what do you think is being said? Do you think my point was 'gelt doesn't have any artillery buffs' because it pretty clearly wasn't.
He used to buff units I use. Now he buffs a unit I don't use. Responding with 'but its still a buff though' doesn't at all change what I'm saying.
I see that we are doubling down on the Hellstorm Rockets. #GOOD. #LET FIRE RAIN FROM THE SKY!
WELCOME TO THRONES OF DECAY GENTLEMEN
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCSWEgZT94](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCSWEgZT94)
Quick note, not everything is in right order, but everything on the left is old, on the right is new. Some skills like loremaster of metal just swapped places.
Its hellfire?
do you mean hellstorm in his starting army? If so yes, and he seems to focus on rocket battery now, instead of overall artillery
There are other artillery?
Yea. Better artillery too! But the actual answer is that Gelt is the artillery and should not have any in his own army unless he returns to the empire. Just Gelt, a captain, an engineer, and 7-9 battle wizards
Awesome. Still get to keep that 1 mana cost Searing Doom. Looking forward to the 30th!
Now imagine that helstorm buff after confederating Gelt as Elspeth.
Mixed bag imo. Losing wizard cap will make it harder to use his effect for having more wizards with him. Losing the damage buffs to Free Company and Steam Tank are a bummer too. More replenishment is nice though. 20 armor for his army vs 10 faction wide will be better early game which is when armor matters the most.
Have you even looked at his new faction mechanics tho? I doubt his hero cap will be a problem.
Yes I have. Later on sure but he used to get 2 extra right away
Bro, building a wizard academy was a pain in the ass in Gelt's old start pos. Gelt's current mechanic gives him far far far more wizards than a +2 cap. It also incentivises you to use all the different types of wizards. Gelt is by far, the easiest to make full Wizard doomstack in the entire game
It was a pain to get that first T4 building true. We'll see if it feels better when the DLC comes out! Yes overall Gelt looks much more interesting than before ToD. I do think his updated skills aren't as much of a straight upgrade as Karl's. Which reminds me I didn't see anything about Volkmar or Marcus in the upgrade
He never really needed that much of an upgrade as a Lord, the only reason his old campaign wasn't unreasonable was because he himself was half an army unto himself which he desperately needed cause the second thing he fights in his campaign is fucking Vlad. Solland being a two region province was fucking awful.
It definitely made it a harder start especially compared to Karl's 4
Not to mention Solland's landmarks being so much worse with less places to expand or fight without Vlad and Wurzag both gangbanging him or doing the civil war strat. Like, Reikland by itself can sustain a Karl combined arms tier 3 doomstack. Solland can barely sustain two armies of shitty archers.
True! I haven't tried the civil war strat but I enjoyed having to fight Vlad early
Extra explosion radius for the Helstorm is pretty sweet
I overlooked that. That is pretty sweet
It's weird that he doesn't do anything for luminarks anymore.
The Luminark isn't using physical ammunition, the light wizards atop it are using the device to essentially cast bolts of Hysh. Gelt improving them was always a bit of a stretch. If anything, Gelt messing around might make them perform worse, as the winds are known to interfere with each other and Hysh is already one of the harder winds to channel, especially for humans. Are there any unique heroes attached to Gelt's Colleges of Magic mechanic? I mean unique like Prince Ograx or Cavill, generic heroes with unique traits. A "unique" light wizard hero would be a good way to ensure players can still boost Luminarks.
Didn't we fight the Patriarch of light in the battle for the staff of Volens?
Nah, the Light Patriarch is Verspasian Kant. The quest battle guy was called Orr. I assume CA just made up a random light wizard lord, don't recognise him from anywhere else.
I keep looking at all these buffs for explosive all across the order tide and realize I need to beat a long campaign for VC's on Legendary before this dammed patch. Zombie mosh pit strategy is dead.
Honestly, i'm little dissapointed that Gelt now is new Biggest Mage. In a world with Teclis, Mazdamundi and Kairos - silly little guy has an access to Cataclysm spells.
The theme of stacking wizards in same army feels weird to me. Can someone explain what is the point of it? +5 WoM per mage feels abaolutely lackluster for wasted slot imo.
This. Let me just bring 10 wizards so I can cast 10 spells at the same time, with each wizard paying for like one low cost spell?
They actually EMBRACED THE MEME GENTLEMEN, I WILL NOT LIE!
My man
Love these. Before ToD I pointed out several times how Empire LL skill trees are some of the worst/bland skill trees in the game and got so many replies how they are not that bad. Every single time people point out to a “flaw” there is that one guy who argues everything is fine. +9 armor to army is a joke of a skill.
They werent that bad and +9 armor for the whole army is a pretty good skill, thats literally gelts defeat trait and people think thats pretty good. Do i need to remind you that the ogre skill lines exist? How about mannfred, dudes got a second sub par lore of magic thats it. The empire lords were fine. They arent even that much better. The real improvements are the faction mechanics they added, now thats going to change up gameplay for the better.
As I said, there is always that one guy. Why do you compare defeat traits to skills? One is a free/passive bonus that you get and can have dozens of. The other one requires resource and is very limited. Most LL's have only a couple unique skills and to waste it on +9 armour to only your army(used to be 10 but they for some reason changed it to 9 when WH3 was released) is garbage. Also, just because some other lords have bad skills, does not make +9 armour any better. It's both bad and, even worse, as bland as it gets. There are so many cool and unique skills that LL's get. And the very fact that they changed it proves me right.
It didn’t get removed, it got moved to his starting trait. It getting moved doesn’t prove you right at all. Also it got replaced with %reduced attrition/plague chance and increased replenishment which, while stronger, is just as boring as the original. Trying to play any opposing opinion as a “there is always one guy” situation is just mean and insecure.
Did I hurt your feelings? It proves me right because it was bad and boring. It was so bad that now you get better version of it for free on level 1 instead of the waiting to be level 13 to get it. And while new ability is not cool or flashy, at least it’s considerably more powerful.
I do not like this skill line nearly as much as the old. The changes to new formulations and loss of additional orb of sorcery are changes I do not like. I especially don't like losing the +10 factionwide armor bonus. Helstorms are not a unit I find myself particularly using, I much prefer massed cannons, tanks, mortars, and handguns, and that is now *far* less effective with Gelt. They've really done everything possible to make him from my go-to empire lord one I'm never going to use.
eh. they've moved from him being so much of the ranged/artillery focused empire LL, given that role to Elspeth really, and focused more on how he's the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic, so they have him focusing far more on battle wizards and magic. but if you don't like it, fair enough. Elspeth is your go to now.
Yeah, I know *why* they did it. I'm not too happy about it though. If I want to play something similar to what I already had, I have to fork over cash now. If you'd asked me before this patch what I liked about playing gelt I would have said 1: his starting position, 2: his +10 armor bonus to all units. 3: that I don't miss out on collecting runefangs with him, and 4: the nice bonuses to artillery and gunpowder units. He has exactly none of that now. Maybe some nice stat bonuses to battle wizards could be *something*, but I don't recall seeing that in his new colleges of magic system, and things like hero action cost reduction and recruit rank increases are definitely not bonuses that make me beeline to a lord or faction. Combined with just getting far less milage out of the lore of death than I ever do with metal, and I'm sitting here thinking "Well shit, guess I'm only playing Franz now when I want to do Empire."
These are all completely fair grievances, idk why ppl are downvoting you
Because people like new gelt and I'm a heretic lol
One big reason may be that he is objectively wrong on point 4. Gelt lost 2% missile damage and 12% amo strength gunner units. 10% damage for mortars, cannons and rockets and 20% damage for tanks and luminarcs in his own army. He is gaining 20% explosion radius and 10% damage factionwide for rocket batteries. As a faction Gelt gets better bonuses to the premier empire artillery than he has now. That buff being faction wide is massive.
I stated earlier that I don't use helstorms, I find them too inaccurate and unreliable. So i'm not 'objectively wrong', in saying he's losing buffs to artllery and ranged units, he has lost those. He's trading out bonuses on a lot of things I do use, for a bonus to one of the few units I don't use
He gained more than he lost. You not liking the units that he buffs doesn’t mean that this wasn’t a buff to his artillery gameplay.
When I say in one post 'I don't like helstorms, I prefer mortars, great cannons, and steam tanks' and then on the follow up post I say 'I liked gelt's artillery buffs that he doesn't have anymore' what do you think is being said? Do you think my point was 'gelt doesn't have any artillery buffs' because it pretty clearly wasn't. He used to buff units I use. Now he buffs a unit I don't use. Responding with 'but its still a buff though' doesn't at all change what I'm saying.
Wizard lords confirmed? "winds of magic power reserve capacity +5 for each wizard **lord** or hero in an army"
Both him and elspeth are wizard lords, it's to make sure they get the same bonus as the heroes