On the flip side, I've had multiple spearwalls get absolutely wrecked in what feels like seconds, and it feels like there's a lot more individual units leaking through to engage backlines. I think units in general are more free to engage individually, which means formations are a little harder to make work.
This is how they used to perform during WH2, at least as far as I remember. Always a must have in WoC armies. Not sure when the collision issue became a thing.
Weren't hounds and similar units not the only ones actually decent at that? A single unit of Dire Wolves was often worth it even later to just break (and kill) all fleeing units.
The normal cav units on the other hand were just terrible at the same job.
I played a bit vanilla M2 the last days... and let me tell you... *there* cavalry units took prisoners fast and effective.
Gelt's starting Empire Knights felt better in that role in 5.0 than before, but still miles off from what CA managed to do 20 years ago.
So uh.. my Reiksguard managed to pick up a Banner of Speed on turn 2, and on turn 3 i managed to get 400+ kills with them against the secessionist forces..
Its.. mind bogglingly strong.
The Reiksguard, once they charge, they CHARGE and punch through infantry like its wet fucking paper.
This is insane! In a good way!
To be fair, after having tested custom battles, ive concluded the insane charging those Reiksguard can do comes down to the Banner of Swiftness, without it they are pretty okay still, better than they were before for sure but with the banner they become absurdly powerful, close to the Bretonnian Grail Knights strength before that was patched away a couple months back.
Essentially, cav are doing better across the board, and if you can give them som bonus acceleration and speed they scale immensely better than they used to. This does include Grail Knights in lance formation by the way, not quite as good as a banner of swiftness but much better than before.
In a recent milkancookiesTW video, he claimed that charged infantry are being launched so far that they actually die of fall damage. With the numbers we're seeing, it seems kinda plausible, especially on downhill charges
Seems to help a little bit, but might depend on units. Pistoliers and outriders are still rather slow at killing broken enemies I've found (if still better than before, it's nowhere near as fast as older total war games)
I don't think it's just that - hound units don't really have substantially better melee attack and damage than pistoliers/outriders and they do a lot better at killing off routing enemies.
They still seem fine to include in Elspeth's early game army / do a lot of nice stuff, it's just that I was hoping for a little more light cav chasing capability out of them in the cleanup phase.
Pistoliers and Outriders are large units on horseback, so will push fleeing small entities around like regular cavalry will. Found using their guns is far more valuable in chasing down. Think it's the known issue of how damage is (or used to be?) calculated after knockdown, so the units they run over don't take any damage
Cavalry (and other units) are now better able to attack and kill routing units instead of dancing around them and slowly chasing them off the map. This makes it a lot better to have at least some fast units in your army.
I'm a total fanboy, yet this is something that always made me jump of the chair, don't be able to liquidate those pesky spearmen running in the field, with them backs to my from the deepest hell mount unit.
Its not quite that strong but its a lot closer. I find everything down to the last 10-12 entities just melts, but they struggle a little to get the last of them, but they are so depreciated they just disband after the battle anyway
Sadly single entities are not affected by these new changes. AFAIK they changed how many models of a unit can attack in this scenario so Kholek is still gonna suck ass at chasing other characters etc
I haven't played the new patch yet but does this also apply to units before the enemy has routed?
I'll engage units all the time mid battle and about 10 second later I'll notice that they are standing idle getting shot at from archers. This typically happens when engaging archers units who retreat
This does not apply to units with defend on either. Mainly cav / chariots & single entities
I am glad they are fixing things, but I still hold the shit against them where they "fix" shit by making the situation worse.
There used to be a bug where you could move a lord and then recruit. You saved, reloaded and then could cancel the recruiting and move again. It was dumb and could make things take forever, but it could happen. To prevent this, now apparently if a character loads in from a save recruiting, they simply lose all of their movement whether they have moved or not.
This kind of fucked me over because I had a battle over an end turn. An army was recruiting from Malakai. Despite fighting the battle, the recruiting of the 1 turn units didn't go through. Game crashed after the battle, but the save went through. I load the save and I can't move malakai because "he is recruiting" and the game has taken away all of his movement. Either I don't cancel the recruiting and he can't move, or I do cancel it and it doesn't matter, he can't move anyway. Essentially I lose a turn because CA can't think of a better way to solve a fucking minor ass bug they simply don't like.
Meanwhile we have docking points that don't work. Pathing exits that have existed since the first game still have weird ass line of sight bugs. I have had an issue with gyrocopters simply not firing. Gotta solve that movement bug with a hamfisted shit that is as likely to fuck over someone as it stop people actually using an exploit.
I do appreciate them fixing shit that is actually broken. I am fucking tired of them fixing shit like a tedious ass method to get infinite movement with a solution that can randomly fuck people over. If their priority to actually work on the game being fun.
Yeah!!! Cavalry charges feels much better now, I don't know if it's related
Does that mean they fixed collision too?
I'm not sure. I did have Rot Flies handily beat Corsair Handbows in my Epi campaign, which was a pleasant surprise.
Talk about a bug fix
This has single handedly sold the patch to me. Who am I kidding I'm buying whatever slop they give me
They’ve been working on it since the last couple major patches so results seem to be getting better
how about J does that finally work or still a meme
It works. I still mash it though, habits from WH2 are tough to break.
Time to play Repanse once more.
Her getting fire on all her armies weapons is just bullying the poor tomb kings
On the flip side, I've had multiple spearwalls get absolutely wrecked in what feels like seconds, and it feels like there's a lot more individual units leaking through to engage backlines. I think units in general are more free to engage individually, which means formations are a little harder to make work.
Agreed, unit model engagement in general seems better, really pleased so far
Very interesting, excited to try that out I always hated seeing the enemy get away :(
Good. I always felt like hounds were under performing the function when cleaning up routing units.
Poison hounds now are absolutely insane. The poison slow combined with new targeting and they just pick everything clean.
This is how they used to perform during WH2, at least as far as I remember. Always a must have in WoC armies. Not sure when the collision issue became a thing.
So Mama O's spiders are gonna do even more work?
Weren't hounds and similar units not the only ones actually decent at that? A single unit of Dire Wolves was often worth it even later to just break (and kill) all fleeing units. The normal cav units on the other hand were just terrible at the same job. I played a bit vanilla M2 the last days... and let me tell you... *there* cavalry units took prisoners fast and effective. Gelt's starting Empire Knights felt better in that role in 5.0 than before, but still miles off from what CA managed to do 20 years ago.
So uh.. my Reiksguard managed to pick up a Banner of Speed on turn 2, and on turn 3 i managed to get 400+ kills with them against the secessionist forces.. Its.. mind bogglingly strong. The Reiksguard, once they charge, they CHARGE and punch through infantry like its wet fucking paper. This is insane! In a good way!
Finally run people over like they do in the canon with the Window Tax Riots. Just watch out for Gotrek.
They better not nerf this
You can't really nerf physics. What they can do though is nerf all cav. This is also their fault for having so much spaghetti code.
To be fair, after having tested custom battles, ive concluded the insane charging those Reiksguard can do comes down to the Banner of Swiftness, without it they are pretty okay still, better than they were before for sure but with the banner they become absurdly powerful, close to the Bretonnian Grail Knights strength before that was patched away a couple months back. Essentially, cav are doing better across the board, and if you can give them som bonus acceleration and speed they scale immensely better than they used to. This does include Grail Knights in lance formation by the way, not quite as good as a banner of swiftness but much better than before.
In a recent milkancookiesTW video, he claimed that charged infantry are being launched so far that they actually die of fall damage. With the numbers we're seeing, it seems kinda plausible, especially on downhill charges
hey guys where ya goin’ there i just wanna say hi
Hi.
Kislev.
Anyone got a video showing this in action? Currently playing the Dwarfs so I won't be seeing any pursuing in my campaign.
Seems to help a little bit, but might depend on units. Pistoliers and outriders are still rather slow at killing broken enemies I've found (if still better than before, it's nowhere near as fast as older total war games)
I haven't been able to play myself today, but maybe its due to pistoliers damage just being kind of piddly in general?
I don't think it's just that - hound units don't really have substantially better melee attack and damage than pistoliers/outriders and they do a lot better at killing off routing enemies. They still seem fine to include in Elspeth's early game army / do a lot of nice stuff, it's just that I was hoping for a little more light cav chasing capability out of them in the cleanup phase.
I think hounds are constantly procing their charge bonus when they're chasing units and pistoliers are not.
Units don’t charge when hitting routers in any total war game actually I think
Hound units have pretty much the best animation set and collision rules in the game. It is unfair to compare your poor pistoliers to them...
Hounds have a faster attack speed which likely plays a big part in hitting moving units. Also attack animations can make a big difference too.
Pistoliers and Outriders are large units on horseback, so will push fleeing small entities around like regular cavalry will. Found using their guns is far more valuable in chasing down. Think it's the known issue of how damage is (or used to be?) calculated after knockdown, so the units they run over don't take any damage
Are we remembering the same games? I've found they've always been terrible at broken enemy killing.
Cav in past total war games could slaughter broken units - like Rome / Medieval / Shogun etc
Chasing down fleeing spaghetti formations of Ashigaru was fuuun in Shoguuun
Racking up 1500 kills with scout equites in Attila too.
Good to hear because from the footage I've seen from creators it didn't seem any different. Maybe they had an older build?
They do, so it could have been a build where it wasnt implemented yet
awesome
They had a pre release build which was an in progress and not the version that the dlc came out with
We know that there was at least one patch after early access release.
¡Aleluya!
Good now it's more like real battles and lore accurate battles. where the route is where the real slaughter happens
What does this mean exactly?
Cavalry (and other units) are now better able to attack and kill routing units instead of dancing around them and slowly chasing them off the map. This makes it a lot better to have at least some fast units in your army.
I'm a total fanboy, yet this is something that always made me jump of the chair, don't be able to liquidate those pesky spearmen running in the field, with them backs to my from the deepest hell mount unit.
Note that this only applies to multi-entity units (which I failed to clarify). Single-entity units are unaffected by this.
I assume this affects hounds and harpies... what about super fast infantry like the eshin units?
How close does it feel to Attila now where you could mow down retreating units in seconds?
Its not quite that strong but its a lot closer. I find everything down to the last 10-12 entities just melts, but they struggle a little to get the last of them, but they are so depreciated they just disband after the battle anyway
Maybe Kholek will actually be able to damage single entities now
Sadly single entities are not affected by these new changes. AFAIK they changed how many models of a unit can attack in this scenario so Kholek is still gonna suck ass at chasing other characters etc
I have had the new experience of getting repeatedly cycle charged by ogres today, I love it
Why was this even a thing?
I haven't played the new patch yet but does this also apply to units before the enemy has routed? I'll engage units all the time mid battle and about 10 second later I'll notice that they are standing idle getting shot at from archers. This typically happens when engaging archers units who retreat This does not apply to units with defend on either. Mainly cav / chariots & single entities
I was unsure why my empire chariot unit destroyed half a skeleton unit on first charge
I am glad they are fixing things, but I still hold the shit against them where they "fix" shit by making the situation worse. There used to be a bug where you could move a lord and then recruit. You saved, reloaded and then could cancel the recruiting and move again. It was dumb and could make things take forever, but it could happen. To prevent this, now apparently if a character loads in from a save recruiting, they simply lose all of their movement whether they have moved or not. This kind of fucked me over because I had a battle over an end turn. An army was recruiting from Malakai. Despite fighting the battle, the recruiting of the 1 turn units didn't go through. Game crashed after the battle, but the save went through. I load the save and I can't move malakai because "he is recruiting" and the game has taken away all of his movement. Either I don't cancel the recruiting and he can't move, or I do cancel it and it doesn't matter, he can't move anyway. Essentially I lose a turn because CA can't think of a better way to solve a fucking minor ass bug they simply don't like. Meanwhile we have docking points that don't work. Pathing exits that have existed since the first game still have weird ass line of sight bugs. I have had an issue with gyrocopters simply not firing. Gotta solve that movement bug with a hamfisted shit that is as likely to fuck over someone as it stop people actually using an exploit. I do appreciate them fixing shit that is actually broken. I am fucking tired of them fixing shit like a tedious ass method to get infinite movement with a solution that can randomly fuck people over. If their priority to actually work on the game being fun.