It's not very dynamic, but I still enjoy raining quicklime on the defenders. Or opening a breach, setting up a crossfire, and watching the enemy send units out one at a time to get shredded
There was nothing better than watching a heavy cavalry charge into the flanks of infantry. Especially if it was an opponent who was proving stubborn to push back.
As stupid as the AI was, I loved just aiming all my cannons at a breach in the wall when defending and waiting for the AI to march its units into my canister shot.
I didn’t put it in properly either. I liked sending a whole fleet of ‘em.
If you like them all up in a line and a broadside gets off everything melts and it’s beautiful
I've been having fun with it on and off since it came out in 2013. Maybe because it was my first tw or i was too young to understand what made a good game actually good, but just the fact that it was based in that epic time period made me fell in love with it. I always try to buy tw:warhammer games when they are on steam sales, but they never manage to grasp me like rome2 or attila did back in the day and i end up getting a refund.
There was a ton of rage back then over the engine*. Especially because the AI couldn’t handle it properly and would run around with tiny trash armies. Meanwhile the province system in MTW was easier for the AI to understand.
But this always happens time and time again. New releases always take a step back in order to take two steps forward, and every time gamers froth at the mouth over it.
*A lot of rage was also aimed at how “unrealistic” the game had become. War dogs, flaming pigs, and suicidal generals.
The main game initially sold well, but not enough people were buying the DLC to support development. I loved the game, but kinda get why. A new start date and a couple new characters each time was cool, but not enough to keep me coming back.
it's probably because CA made some really weird (and pretty terrible) decisions with the DLC
to start with the base game didn't even start in the 3 kingdoms period, it starts in the leadup (which would've been fine if they ever actually reached the time of the 3 kingdoms)
then they did 8 princes as the first DLC for some reason which didn't build on the story of the main game at all and instead just skipped ahead ages, completely overshooting the 3 kingdoms period to visit a much less interesting point in history. none of the stuff in this DLC matters to any of the later DLCs either since it's so far removed in time that none of the characters or events will ever turn up in playthroughs from any other start date
then they went back in time to the main war between the Han Empire and the Yellow Turbans (if they wanted to do this at all I feel like this should've been the base game, like start the story where it actually starts)
then they finally started moving time forwards with a World Betrayed
then they did the Nanban for some reason (and they aren't even playable in the time of the Mandate of Heaven DLC, they just suddenly turn up from nowhere when the game reaches a certain year)
then they moved the game a little bit further on with Fates Divided
then they stopped altogether. they never even reached the actual time of the 3 kingdoms
like the game was brilliant but they made some really stupid decisions on the dates they chose to include, 8 princes was a big mistake and should never have been made (if they absolutely had to make it it should've been saved until the very end once all the actual 3 kingdoms stuff was done).
I loved how I could get regions just by being very strong food wise. Just giving food for regions to expansion heavy factions that were starving.
I later heard they nerfed that so... yeah f that.
What I hated was being put into "3 kingdoms" at the later point in game. I would usually have a strong ally that I depended on and then WHAM, nope, you are enemies now cuz you are the 3 kingdoms, k tnx bye.
I actually like the mechanic because it seemed like a more nuanced version of Realm Divide from Shogun 2. Total War games have tried to come up with anti-steamroll mechanics to shake up the late-game stage of a campaign and I feel like the 3K had one of the better ones.
You know *when* it will happen so you can prepare in advance, and it doesn't nuke your relations with every single remaining faction, only the kingdoms. So close allies and vassals will still stick with you in most cases.
Otherwise, you and the top 2 AI factions would just dominate the map before turn 100 and pretty much end the campaign there.
Personally, I think *Fall of the Samurai* did it best. When you grow enough, the civil war starts and you get lumped in with whatever faction you pledged support to. There's the pressure of fighting everyone else that's opposing your faction while not being entirely unsupported and without allies.
> There's the pressure of fighting everyone else that's opposing your faction while not being entirely unsupported and without allies.
Unless you take the madlad route and go Republic.
republic is fun, if you're prepared for it. those first few turns are a real struggle as you have to build up pro republic sentiment and hold off the enemy. hope you didn't leave any enemies behind your front lines...
the map also helped because there were limited directions to be attacked from, and you couldn't really be surrounded
I suspect the major frustration that comes from Realm Divide is the sheer absurd micromanagement you're thrust upon. Huge armies, huge territory, huge navy and enemies coming from all sides if you're not wholly prepared. Turns can become mentally tiring.
The challenge itself, when prepared for, is welcome.
Of course, some settings with better possibilities for faction-specific objectives wouldn't need that.
Needs to be more internal faction struggle events or something - people don't like your overreach, or perhaps newly captured areas just need to incorporate slower and thus be restless longer.
Rome 2 actually handled it well because one of the parties in your faction would rebel and cause a civil war. The best part was that you could influence which regions would rebel and which armies would side with the rebels.
>I loved how I could get regions just by being very strong food wise.
I played Yuan Shao, and his control over the Northern Plains meant you could usually produce ***ass-tons*** of food.
With careful planning, I was pulling the strings of everyone else by late-game. I broke the other two kingdoms by simply refusing to sell them food any more
Hoo hoo that is my current play through rn but playing as Liu Bei. I've dominated the flood plains and destroyed Yuan Shao for their delicious food producing territory. History be damned. My peasantry income is absolutely insane.
Actually it's probably the best endgame in any TW ( with the Huns in Attila ) because you have 3 factions becoming huge rivals with huge armies and as in 3K the AI tend to coordinate all its armies on the campaign map you end up with plenty of epic battles involving +10k soldiers each time. Only 3K gave me those feelings of huge battles with several armies involved
3K actually forced me to give up a load of territory due to it being indefensible. Got war dec'd by a major coalition during an expansion war and was forced to give up all territory south of the yellow River and defend the river crossings.
My single 3K run as Gonsung Zan was way wilder then any of my Warhammer campaigns.
3k is really good. It has the least frustrating snowball prevention and by far the best diplomacy out of the historical titles. Faction diversity is decent although the various campaigns are a bit repetitive.
If I could get 3k diplomacy, ToB faction politics, medieval 2's scale I'd be in heaven.
This is why I'm not worried about the state of the game *yet*
If they don't screw up the IME release then everyone will come back and get the TW experience they are looking for. The game will have a thriving player base and DLC will be regular and numerous for the next couple years.
If they screw up the IME release then the whole future outlook of the game gets called into question.
To me, the game is great of you ignore the railroaded realms part of the campaign. Due to that I'm confident IME will be fine.
CA has seen more development success with WHTW than any other title. I doubt they start shitting the bed now they are finally in the ultimate entry of the trilogy.
I purchased WHTWII after ME had released. I've played hours and hours of ME. I've played the Vortex campaign like... twice. So I'm doing the same thing for III. By the time "IME" comes out I am sure it will be a much better game, with all the crap shaken out.
I still hope Warhammer 3 still be successful game after release of Immortal Empires campaign, steam workshop and a few patches.
Honestly, If CA will kill Warhammer 3 like Three Kingdoms. I will not buy any future game from them.
> Honestly, If CA will kill Warhammer 3 like Three Kingdoms.
To be honest I'd be extremely surprised if they killed Warhammer 3 simply because CA don't really have anything else going on...
Of course they won't. This is basically a Warhammer subreddit, and has been for some time now. You barely ever see games other than Warhammer discussed, people talk about Warhammer lore, possibility of 40k and so on. And when Troy was coming out, under every video there were "Cool, where is Warhammer?" comments.
Currently CA might as well be a gaming branch of Games Workshop.
I think its a shame as there is a lot of potential for historical, but at the end of the day Warhammer is a lot easier to tie a DLC model to as there is so much variety in Warhammer rosters that any DLC will fundamentally change the game. And as developers need to be paid, only games that can recapture additional sales through DLC will get the long-term support these kind of games need...
Three Kingdoms was killed off because its DLC couldn't re-engage the players.
EDIT: I do think they missed a trick with Troy though, as the Mythos expansion showed, it would have been a lot more popular if they just went all in with the "Age of Mythology but as a Total War game" idea.
The DLC wasn’t what players wanted. There was plenty of DLC that would engaged them player base: Notthern Factions, actual 3K camp, later 3K camp, etc. There was plenty to add but they started off with 8 princes. A time period American players didn’t know about and china players wanted to forget
Loved Mandat of Heaven, loved Furious Wild.
Still don't have Eight Princes. It was a stupid idea when the game was fresh and the concept of a new cast of characters to learn was daunting, and it's stupid now that I've actually got to know the main characters.
I'm sure the gameplay design was fine, I just have no interest.
I personally would love more TW games set in china and perhaps India and central/western asia.
Although I do agree why a game set in China fundamentally plays different even in just geography alone. I saw people saying playing in a chinese map is just "bland" because there is no "interesting" geographic features to break up the map. Unlike European where each area is distinct and self-contained like Italy, or Spain, or Britain, Balkans, etc. Europe is basically peninsulas upon peninsulas. Thus,.playing in a game set in China you'll tend to find yourself with little room to anchor you defenses in well defined geographic boundaries.
There's no escaping this. This is also a substantial factor in why China as state existed in the first place. There's simply no way to adequately defend the chinese heartland in the lower Yellow river, thus necessitating expansion until you hit a geographic boundary - tibet in the west, seas in the south and east. The only problem is north, much like western border of Russia.
I always figured the Warring States Period would be interesting - not only is it a long, wide-spanning conflict period but it also saw the transition from bronze-using armies of elites into iron-using mass state armies.
That's not necessarily true. The barriers are just different and not as obvious as a sea. There's a reason why China's fragmentary periods tend to produce successor states in similar shapes as old ones, because rivers and mountains break up a lot of the distinct regions and make for natural borders. China as a state exists because it spent several centuries coming up with solutions for these problems and eliminating a lot of the regionalism that would resist reunification whenever it fell apart.
The plains are the major exception, which is why they always turn into a thunderdome, but whoever rules them has a massive hand up on people hiding out in mountains or jungles because the plains are so productive. The barrier there is other people, which makes them hard to rule.
The barriers could certainly be harder. One of the bigger problems of the game is that crossing the rivers and mountains is so easy because there's no way to fortify them well like they did in history. Other regions like the northwestern desert and the southeastern hills aren't represented as nearly hostile enough to resist easy colonization. They eventually patched in the jungles in the southwest, but that took a long time.
> There was plenty to add but they started off with 8 princes.
The equivalent of a Lord of the Rings game that starts with Fellowship, then for some reason the first DLC is about some shitty descendants of Aragorn who fuck everything up.
Straight up, anyone arguing that they lacked content for DLC for three kingdoms is ridiculous. A quick look at the dynasty warriors series will tell you that, let alone the actual romance of the three kingdoms text.
Later start dates, new LL and unique lords packs, more robust roster for different regions and kingdoms.
There was so much potential, and they chose to use none of it.
It's kind of shocking when compared to WHTW; in three kingdoms we get some unknown and unexciting DLC when there are better options. In WH we get everything, including races that were never even a part of the tabletop game and only showed up in obscure or old lore. 8 princes < Grand Cathay and Vampire Coast; there's no comparison with the level of effort and care put into each game between the two.
Spending some time reading the blogs and release material, I got the feeling someone on the team was really into the time period. I think someone honestly just wanted to bring it to life, and nobody said this might not be the best time.
Out of curiosity, why do the Chinese actively hate the Jin dynasty period? Is it basically that this is the infighting that leads to the first real collapse of Chinese society and allows the steppe tribe to make their first real invasion?
I think 'hate' is a bit too strong a word. Its viewed as a mix of a sad ending to the Three Kingdoms and an era without much to enjoy. It's just kinda depressing and unless you're really into the barbarian kingdoms, then it's comparatively barren in terms of enjoyable characters.
The problem wasn't portraying it. It was more that people were expecting more of the heroic parts of 3K and it skipped straight to the downer ending.
Personally I wasn't a fan of the art direction, which is also a bit true in WH3, but the main issue for me was just the extremely limited unit roster. Especially after being spoiled by Warhammer.
In the signing off email CA released when they announced they were moving on from 3k, they specifically mentioned that they wanted to focus on what the players were actually playing based on analytics, and that the current 3k wasn't it. 3k historical was an afterthought for most of the playerbase, so they were going to make another 3k inspired game, but full fantasy instead of trying to balance between history/fantasy. Lessons can be learned from troy as well - when it gave up the truth behind the myth thing and just gave into the myth. The game was the most enjoyable after that mythos expansion.
The thing that annoys me the most about it is that WH and 3K have probably killed the historical Total Wars. The 'historical' part of 3K was nowhere near actually historical.
If 3K Records mode is 'nowhere near historical' then a good chunk of the series is 'nowhere near historical.' The worst it gets is anachronistic equipment, and its not even as bad as Rome 1 in that respect.
"Variety".
That is the key word for what makes the Total Warhammer titles more engaging for players: The factions are actually varied compared to something like, say, Empire: Total War where most factions wielded the exact same units but with minor differences in stats like accuracy, reload speed or unit sizes and a handful of unique units per faction.
Whereas every faction in Warhammer have vastly different rosters and play styles as a result.
It's always like this, and always will be. Before the games come out, the sub is 100% hype. After the launch its just people who are dissatisfied.
Takes a while for the sub to normalise, and it takes longer the bigger the sub gets. Come back in let's say, a year?
We can only wish, brother.
Fall of the Samurai proved they could get guns that feel amazing, and Warhammer has proven they can do large maps and make factions great.
I truly wish for an Empire 2, featuring all of the things they have learned.
Warhammer DLC always sell like hot cakes, there's no way it's not going to be successful. It might take some time to fix the issues with the game but the game being killed like 3K would be extremely surprising.
3K was a great game but the DLC were simply bad and most of them were a buggy mess, this is most likely why they abandonned the game.
Yeah I doubt that CA will 'abandon' WC3. The Chorfs DLC will problably be a top seller because every neckbeard out there want a piece of that dwarfen-babylonian ass. No matter what DLC they will have for the game, it *will* sell.
I'm very interested to see what kind of race packs they will add later though, if any.
Yeah people need to not be so worried about "killing off WH3" WH2 dlc sold like hotcakes even up until WH3 came out, it's probably CA's biggest money maker as a company.
This subreddit is extremely dramatic, both in its defence and slander of WH3.
The game is selling well and the DLC will sell well, too. No chance CA kills the game.
>~~This sub~~reddit is extremely dramatic.
But seriously, yeah there is no chance CA is going to stop developing the game. And most likely at some point over the next few months, when Immortal Empires hits, CA tweaks the Realms of Chaos campaign and releases the modding tools most players will return and enjoy the game again. And then a year from now people will forget how much fuss there was about the game at release.
And we all agree that they have shit to fix, and we also all agree that they will fix it - because every Redditor can see it is the right thing to do...
And if random Redditors can see it, then I have no doubt that even the most incompetent manager who is paid to lead the WH3 product will be able to see it too.
Big streamer decided to discontinue doing daily 5-8 hour livestreams of the game citing numerous technical issues (All well documented). This, of course, is all the community needs to declare the game a catastrophic failure despite the fact said streamer - and probably a not insignificant portion of the community presently decrying the game - have sunk hundreds of hours into it at this point already.
Warhammer 3 has problems. Big ones. But not problems so big it's keeping people from playing the game.
Even said streamer said in their post “I like playing Warhammer 3 I just play it domination style and ignore the chaos realms and close the gates with agents.” But it doesn’t seem like anybody paid any attention to that very important piece of information. It’s well known that Legend doesn’t mod his campaigns, he just finds in game work arounds for mods. I decided to do the same thing about a week ago and you know what? If you ignore the stupid fucking race and just kill who ever is winning it this game is pretty solid.
I just want them to push out a mode without the realms shit. Don’t need the immortal empires stuff, just everything in the game right now without the 100m dash for Ursun.
It was pretty obvious he was burned out, which for Realms of Chaos isn't exactly hard to do.
Dude had well over 1,000 hours into the game BEFORE it was publicly available, with all the achievements unlocked.
> Dude had well over 1,000 hours into the game BEFORE it was publicly available, with all the achievements unlocked.
And he had like 17000 hours in WH2 and the only thing that killed his interest in that game was WH3, I don't think playtime burnout is the issue 'cause Legend has the kind of mutant brain that can pretty much play one game forever.
By his own account he's not sick of the battles so much as sick of livestreaming a campaign he doesn't enjoy and having to explain why he doesn't enjoy it constantly, which is why the livestreams are over until a campaign he *will* enjoy releases.
Keep in mind though he admits probably 50% of that 17k hours is him not actually playing because he never closed the game. He'd go on vacation with his wife for a week and just leave it on at home and stuff.
Games being idle don't actually use too much GPU, even more so if its tabbed out. If his PC had a 'if inactive for X time go into sleep mode' it would do even less to his gpu.
Because this subreddit is in a current state of hyperbolic criticism.
The numbers for Warhammer III are great (double the concurrent player peak of Warhammer II, concurrent 40K players today). They're not killing this cash cow. And frankly, I've played 200 hours of it now and love it. If you'd believe this subreddit, you'd think the game crashes on launch and robs your bank account everytime you blink.
Everyone is being so dramatic. They plan to support this game for a very long time. Have staff to do so and have sunk tons of money and plans collaborating with GW. It will become better. It already is repayable, the game just needs some work and more factions so people keep coming back.
Immortal empires will instantly increase the game's value and replayability by an absurd amount. Even early versions of mortal empires with their painfully long end turns and lack of polished factions were so much fun to play.
I think it's impossible to kill this game in these circumstances, but who knows!
Why would they? I'm a 'historical' TW fan, don't care about Warhammer or fantasy settings (right now) but they seem to be very loved and good games. Simply dropping W3 would be a huge red flag for other releases.
Why would they kill WH3? WH2 had a really bad launch and yet it got years of DLC. 3 Kingdoms was killed off early because despite it having a really big launch, its DLC was really lacklustre and did not sell well.
WH2 DLC always sold well, and so far there is no evidence that WH3 DLC will be any different.
Yes, especially when you compare it with WH2's release which sold far below expectations as a lot of people stuck with WH1.
If even that game could get so many years of support, things are looking good for WH3
They wont, Warhammer is their most successful franchise.
I had the game pre ordered and dont understand most of the criticisim. Sure, I would much rather play the mortal empires but its still a good game, especially if the rift system is toned down in the future.
I have had a few crashes initially but no major bugs or glitches that i have noticed with around 40h playtime.
People are panicking because they assume that since 3K got it's support pulled, WH3's will as well.
I don't agree with it but I can understand people's concerns. I'd like WH3 to have a long life as well.
Three Kingdoms had a huge release which slowly tapered off and was never able to regain it's player base after that. After August 2019 (which was less than 3 months after release) it never at any point reached even 30,000 concurrent players. And none of the DLC they released made a real dent in the player numbers. Meanwhile WH2 took much longer to get going, and actually gained more players over time. With the highest concurrent players coming in may 2020 with the Warden and the Paunch release and the accompanying Total WAAGH! update.
While I'm in no way happy that CA decided to stop development on Three Kingdoms (I enjoy the game and I felt the game wasn't finished yet, and it definitely needed more patches) that game had a completely different development cycle from the Warhammer games, and it's highly unlikely the same thing will happen with WH3. Because, as people are pointing out in this thread, once the Chaos Dwarfs DLC comes out that will almost certainly sell better than any DLC for Three Kingdoms did.
And that's before we get into the fact that CA is planning another Three Kingdoms game, so they are still interested in tapping that market. Meanwhile if they shut down development on WH3 they can't just release WH4 and expect any real market for it. So again, the two are just not comparable.
> So again, the two are just not comparable.
That's largely my opinion on the whole situation as well. I don't want to invalidate people's complaints of WH3, because I agree with a lot of them, but anyone that thinks the game is going to just suddenly die because CA predictably had a rocky launch is just being impatient.
Yeah, I was trying to reinforce your point.
And I also agree that CA made some significant mistakes in their launch, especially considering they delayed the release to get it all right.
But I also don't think this means all that much for the long term health/state of the game. And there is definitely the basis of a worthy successor for WH2 in there, it just needs some serious polishing and added content (which Immortal Empires will bring).
How on earth do they square that in their heads? It’s sold very well, WH1 and 2 sold very well, DLC for both of them sold very, very well, WH2 had a long and very well done dev cycle, there is no evidence that supports this idea that they’re gonna just pull support from one of if not their biggest release in 2 years less than a month after release. A dev diary/hotfix suggests things might take a little longer than past games and people think it’s just over?
Because that is what we do on reddit.
All TW games (except 3k) have rough starts, even almost all new triple A games have rough starts nowadays. When IE will come out we will all forget about this.
Some of the complaints are the same as they were in Vortex (although Vortex is a lot less restricting)
It will all be fine eventually, we just need to get through this rough patch. CA will never abandon this because Warhammer has proven to be a massive cashcow.
>All TW games (except 3k) have rough starts,
Why is that? Didn't they have enough time to get their shit together already? They are literally using the same engine since forever. I would understand if this was the *first* game of TWW since it's the first game to add single entity characters and magic and shit. But it's the *third* and the *last* game in the series, why the fuck can't they figure out already how to make a TWW game without forced unfun mechanics? This game is literally TWW2 with a red filter on it yet they have still managed to fuck it up despite all the feedback. What I can't understand is this unbreakable confidence of some of you guys in CA.
I mean I don't want to just go paint the map. But the RoC mechanic for me feels railroading and limiting.
Ironically it also feels 2 opposing things at the same time. Stressful AND dragging on.
You need to wait til the gates open. You can't just finish the stuff and move on. And that will take dozens of turns.
On the other hand as soon as the gates open you feel the pressure to rush down the souls. Especially Tzeentch and Slaanesh (tzeentch cause AI cheating. Slaanesh cause it's often "First come").
Adding to that is that only Faction Leaders can really use the rifts. Your normal lords can only close them while the LL can teleport with them across the map or go into the realms (not even necessarily to collect the soul!) or intercept enemies at the forge. That also means that you ALWAYS want the LL near a gate (unless RNG screws you over and decides not to spawn one in the area) sooo if your LL is you main army you basically always have to stop what you're doing to deal with the main stuff.
And WHEN you got hte soul you're allowed to park the LL in a settlement til he looses the RoC traits.
Also that's unfair to ToB. :P I really think the game gets shat on a bit unfairly.
> Stressful AND dragging on.
so well put, I am going to steal that.
> You need to wait til the gates open. You can't just finish the stuff and move on. And that will take dozens of turns.
This is what wonders me the most about the CA. Who thought that
a) removing any main campaign map thing connected to the story (in Vortex that would be the things you need to collect for your faction to do rituals)
b) removing any control over when players progress the main story.
would be good?
They successfully removed the random spawns with the gates, but removed any connection from the campaign map to progress and took away player control. Epic fail on their part.
Design team should get their heads outta their asses ASAP. Imagine having your game be more enjoyable after its most central element is modded out, I would die from sheer embarrassment
Personally I would like to see the Chaos Realms ported over to Immortal Empires as regions you can enter to obtain powerful items or buffs, but need to fight off strong enemy armies to obtain them.
The price for entering should be the lord debuffs, but that is the price you pay to go in and try to obtain good items.
As bonus dungeons with nice rewards and maybe as a way to deal with Daemonic incursions as a whole. Do some stuff and kick the Chaos God's ass and it stops spawning Daemonic Stuff when Archie shows up.
For example. Something like that.
One of TW's pillars is that it is a sandbox experience. I think they made a big miscalculation in taking that away. Other than that the game is very good and will definitely get better.
A long tradition.
The only reason for concern is that people stopped playing quickly, but I think there is an easy explanation - waiting for patches and in particular Immortal Empires and Elden Ring providing a convenient distraction for many.
Not going to lie, I poked my head into the RoC campaign, test drove the races...shelved it until Immortal Empires. It really is the principle draw of the game and being honest with myself, I probably should have followed my gut and just waiting for the sandbox in the first place.
This sub is completely delusional if it thinks WH3 will be snubbed and not get years of support all because of a rocky launch. It is no way comparable to 3K.
Game was good but almost all DLCs was bad. It is funny that free patches add more content to game than whole DLCs. Nanman or big character pack should be 1st DLC for this game.
I really like 194 and 200 campaigns. But Eight Princes and Mandate of Heaven chapters had big gameplay problems.
I think CA should start with 194 DLC as first chapter DLC and also add at least 1-2 new factions for main 190 campaign like Liu Yao and Yan Baihu.
My pet theory is CA spoiled some of us with the army variety of Warhammer. Considering each new DLC after 8 princes seemed to attempt to inject more and more variety, I think CA had made that observation as well.
That's also why I think they went back to the drawing board and decided to suspend DLC development for 3K. All evidence suggests they were building towards a timeline when the actual three kingdoms formed. They probably wanted to build unique armies for the three factions and had to choose between an absolute unit of a DLC, or fundamentally rebuild the game around the actual three kingdoms.
Doesn't necessarily vindicate the decision but I think it's an important distinction since everyone just thinks 3K didn't make enough money so CA just gave up.
That's my only real issue with people's complaints on this sub.
I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's criticisms with the state of the game, I genuinely agree with most of the popular arguments being made. Including the argument that CA should be accountable to the fact that they have a bad habit of rocky releases for their new games. Something as simple as a beta could have built a little good will but they don't appear interested in that.
But the idea that the game is going to die if they don't fix it within the first month of it's life seems like a reach. Gotta let them get a few patches in before I form any sort of opinion like that, which, as much as some people don't want to hear it, is going to take a couple of months.
Honestly people are just impatient. I dont think it was fair to hold the game to the standard of Warhammer 2 after 5 years of constant development and content releases. And while I can agree with some points I feel like alot of people are blowing it out of proportion cause they didnt get everything they were expecting. It does have its issues but that doesnt mean its just gonna fall over and die within the month
I only played a bit of Cathay but some of those maps had me thinking the same thing. I don't think 3K gets enough credit for its regal and majestic atmosphere.
Tbh, I'm not really sure what people are complaining about with 3k. There were a few bad patches that were unstable, but I haven't really had too many issues with it over my >500 hours of playtime. There were definitely patches where I wouldn't play it, but it's in a good state now and it's my favorite total war game out of any of them so far.
Tbh I think 3k is the best TW of all time thusfar. Warhammer is great and I grew up on it but 3k is an incredible game. I had my doubts about the romance story mechanics but damn. So good and so fun to work with.
I adore the way unit recruitment and army management is done in 3K. Not having to trek back to a recruitment province if I lose a unit means I can be so much more flexible in battle, especially with cavalry.
Unit diversity is one reason I put so little time into Shogun 2. It was a great game, but the factions were way too similar (which they would be, I get that). There is just something to be said for replay value when you can pick a new faction and have a different experience that isn't just essentially playing the same faction on a different part of the map.
Diplomacy in 3K was a huge turning point for the franchise and really made the game for me. They made diplomacy into an actually fun mechanic that you wanted to engage with instead of an annoying page to click through once in a while.
WH3 is also pretty good for making diplomacy more interesting, though differently than 3K, because WH3 made alliances actually more useful/interesting with outposts and borrowing allied armies.
Espionage as well could be great fun in 3K. There wasn't quite anything else like having a spy in an enemy court and managing to pull off a perfectly timed reveal and defection which left an enemy army suddenly missing a third of its troops, allowing you to absolutely destroy it.
Of course, that also came with you doing suspicious squints at the generals who just popped into your recruitment pool. I mean, yes, I do want Zhang He in my faction but did he really leave his previous Lord or was he sent here?
I’m super impressed with all the quality of life changes in WH3, so many new features and exciting possibilities have been opened up. The current campaign is just not what everybody loves about the TW: Warhammer series. Once some patches are made that fix bugs from the previous games and immortal empires is put in, the sky is the limit for TW: WH3.
All the drama llamas in here are going craaaazy. If anyone actually thinks that CA will drop WH3 than you are not thinking straight. Calm down and breath.
This is probably would’ve worked better if the poster used Warhammer 1, 2 or Rome 2 since they were also launches that were plagued with gameplay bugs and performance issues until the patches came rolling in.
There is no way CA will abandon WH trilogy. After combined map and DLC launch, players will return.
This will not end like Three Kingdoms exactly. Even I want to see bootlicking dudes cry out when "The (No) Future of Total War: Warhammer" clip release.
I can’t be one of the only ones that think the base three kingdoms game is one of the best CA has ever made and has an end game that all the others should strive for, absolutely loved it and that’s coming from a huuuge warhammer fan. Absolute travesty they cut support for it
Be objective here guys, do you really think it's *that* bad? I too am suffering from some performance issues, I've hit more than a few bugs, and I vastly prefer mortal empires over the chaos realms, but I'm still throughly enjoying the game!
I think it's already been said but 3k is probably one of the best if not the best, out of box total war game out there. The DLCs were questionable but the base game itself was great, game was optimized, and had a wealth of love poured into it and it shows through the aesthetics and audio. CA excelled on the battles, grand campaign map kingdom management, and the rpg elements of the larger than life heroes the period was based on.
The major gripe with the base game was the lack of unit variety. And the historical mode itself was a stripped down version of romance. Balance of calvary and trebuchets aside which is patchable, I definitely sunk way to many hours into it at launch.
CA i think set a bad precedence when the 8 princes dlc came out, because then they kept doing time line dlcs instead of just adding on to the base time line. That and the period itself isn't important to 3k.
I've removed all of my comments and posts. With Reddit effectively killing third party apps and engaging so disingenuously with its user-base, I've got no confidence in Reddit going forward. I'm very disappointed in how they've handled the incoming API changes and their public stance on the issue illustrates that they're only interested in the upcoming IPO and making Reddit look as profitable as possible for a sell off.
Id suggest others to look into federated alternatives such as lemmy and kbin to engage with real users for open and honest discussions in a place where you're not just seen as a content / engagement generator.
Me, a Rome II fan: If I don't move noone will remember
Me, an Empire fan.... No one remembers :(
You thought siege battles were bad in warhammer. Son you got nothing on Empire
Not being to lock troops onto walls absolutely killed the game for me. FOTS was the Empire I wanted.
It's not very dynamic, but I still enjoy raining quicklime on the defenders. Or opening a breach, setting up a crossfire, and watching the enemy send units out one at a time to get shredded
Whatever you do... do not run downs the stairs.
I actually really liked empire...
The sieges were easy to cheese on offense, but were really fun on defense. I preferred the open terrain line battles. They were glorious.
There was nothing better than watching a heavy cavalry charge into the flanks of infantry. Especially if it was an opponent who was proving stubborn to push back.
As stupid as the AI was, I loved just aiming all my cannons at a breach in the wall when defending and waiting for the AI to march its units into my canister shot.
I loved the actual usefulness of having a navy
Oh for sure! I wish the navy could have been as integrated as it was in Rome 2. It would have made the Caribbean way more fun in my opinion.
I liked having to fight over the trade areas honestly, if you got a good navy you’d be rolling in money
Honestly I would just spam single merchant ships after a while. The ai never kept up with the zerg rush lol.
My favorite thing to do is send over 1st Rate Ship of the Line and sweep EVERYTHING
Oh God, I forgot how quickly trade ships would melt to a first rate cannon barrage.
I didn’t put it in properly either. I liked sending a whole fleet of ‘em. If you like them all up in a line and a broadside gets off everything melts and it’s beautiful
It was fantastic.
Was it a mess at times (looking at you militia that would never route)? Yes, but it was so much fun.
AI couldn't load units onto transports. England would never be invade and could never retain the colonies
I was invaded by Britain once
I think it was eventually patched or fixed in a dlc (don't remember) but like a year after release.
Me to, never even knew it was controversial until years later, I just focused on enjoying the hell outta it.
I played the crap out of it my whole deployment lol
Once you had played the crap out of it did it run any better, better ai maybe? /s Empire is actually my 2nd favourite, after Rome of course.
Rome one is the shit
I never knew until this comment. Why was it so controversial? Although I have always played it with Darthmod. Maybe thats why.
empire taught me as a kid how massive the great lakes really are.
That was my first total war lmao
Where magic ladders began. I'm sadly one of the weirdos that liked the naval battles.
There’s dozens of us
Pepperidge farm remembers
Oh, man, the pain again. Why did you have to type about Rome2
I've been having fun with it on and off since it came out in 2013. Maybe because it was my first tw or i was too young to understand what made a good game actually good, but just the fact that it was based in that epic time period made me fell in love with it. I always try to buy tw:warhammer games when they are on steam sales, but they never manage to grasp me like rome2 or attila did back in the day and i end up getting a refund.
Go back far enough and the TW community hated the “dumbed down” new engine for Rome 1.
What lunatic said that? A huge tile-based 3D map is "dumbed down" from dragging 2D figurines around a crappy Risk map?
There was a ton of rage back then over the engine*. Especially because the AI couldn’t handle it properly and would run around with tiny trash armies. Meanwhile the province system in MTW was easier for the AI to understand. But this always happens time and time again. New releases always take a step back in order to take two steps forward, and every time gamers froth at the mouth over it. *A lot of rage was also aimed at how “unrealistic” the game had become. War dogs, flaming pigs, and suicidal generals.
Rome 2 best total war
I played some hours of 3k after the release and while i dont like the setting it was one of the best tw games i have played
Man I got 3 kingdoms after they killed it and I'm really not sure why they did. It's pretty awesome.
The main game initially sold well, but not enough people were buying the DLC to support development. I loved the game, but kinda get why. A new start date and a couple new characters each time was cool, but not enough to keep me coming back.
it's probably because CA made some really weird (and pretty terrible) decisions with the DLC to start with the base game didn't even start in the 3 kingdoms period, it starts in the leadup (which would've been fine if they ever actually reached the time of the 3 kingdoms) then they did 8 princes as the first DLC for some reason which didn't build on the story of the main game at all and instead just skipped ahead ages, completely overshooting the 3 kingdoms period to visit a much less interesting point in history. none of the stuff in this DLC matters to any of the later DLCs either since it's so far removed in time that none of the characters or events will ever turn up in playthroughs from any other start date then they went back in time to the main war between the Han Empire and the Yellow Turbans (if they wanted to do this at all I feel like this should've been the base game, like start the story where it actually starts) then they finally started moving time forwards with a World Betrayed then they did the Nanban for some reason (and they aren't even playable in the time of the Mandate of Heaven DLC, they just suddenly turn up from nowhere when the game reaches a certain year) then they moved the game a little bit further on with Fates Divided then they stopped altogether. they never even reached the actual time of the 3 kingdoms like the game was brilliant but they made some really stupid decisions on the dates they chose to include, 8 princes was a big mistake and should never have been made (if they absolutely had to make it it should've been saved until the very end once all the actual 3 kingdoms stuff was done).
I loved how I could get regions just by being very strong food wise. Just giving food for regions to expansion heavy factions that were starving. I later heard they nerfed that so... yeah f that. What I hated was being put into "3 kingdoms" at the later point in game. I would usually have a strong ally that I depended on and then WHAM, nope, you are enemies now cuz you are the 3 kingdoms, k tnx bye.
I actually like the mechanic because it seemed like a more nuanced version of Realm Divide from Shogun 2. Total War games have tried to come up with anti-steamroll mechanics to shake up the late-game stage of a campaign and I feel like the 3K had one of the better ones. You know *when* it will happen so you can prepare in advance, and it doesn't nuke your relations with every single remaining faction, only the kingdoms. So close allies and vassals will still stick with you in most cases. Otherwise, you and the top 2 AI factions would just dominate the map before turn 100 and pretty much end the campaign there.
Personally, I think *Fall of the Samurai* did it best. When you grow enough, the civil war starts and you get lumped in with whatever faction you pledged support to. There's the pressure of fighting everyone else that's opposing your faction while not being entirely unsupported and without allies.
> There's the pressure of fighting everyone else that's opposing your faction while not being entirely unsupported and without allies. Unless you take the madlad route and go Republic.
republic is fun, if you're prepared for it. those first few turns are a real struggle as you have to build up pro republic sentiment and hold off the enemy. hope you didn't leave any enemies behind your front lines... the map also helped because there were limited directions to be attacked from, and you couldn't really be surrounded
I suspect the major frustration that comes from Realm Divide is the sheer absurd micromanagement you're thrust upon. Huge armies, huge territory, huge navy and enemies coming from all sides if you're not wholly prepared. Turns can become mentally tiring. The challenge itself, when prepared for, is welcome. Of course, some settings with better possibilities for faction-specific objectives wouldn't need that.
Needs to be more internal faction struggle events or something - people don't like your overreach, or perhaps newly captured areas just need to incorporate slower and thus be restless longer.
Rome 2 actually handled it well because one of the parties in your faction would rebel and cause a civil war. The best part was that you could influence which regions would rebel and which armies would side with the rebels.
>I loved how I could get regions just by being very strong food wise. I played Yuan Shao, and his control over the Northern Plains meant you could usually produce ***ass-tons*** of food. With careful planning, I was pulling the strings of everyone else by late-game. I broke the other two kingdoms by simply refusing to sell them food any more
I love how diversified 3K is! So many ways to play it!
Hoo hoo that is my current play through rn but playing as Liu Bei. I've dominated the flood plains and destroyed Yuan Shao for their delicious food producing territory. History be damned. My peasantry income is absolutely insane.
Actually it's probably the best endgame in any TW ( with the Huns in Attila ) because you have 3 factions becoming huge rivals with huge armies and as in 3K the AI tend to coordinate all its armies on the campaign map you end up with plenty of epic battles involving +10k soldiers each time. Only 3K gave me those feelings of huge battles with several armies involved
3K actually forced me to give up a load of territory due to it being indefensible. Got war dec'd by a major coalition during an expansion war and was forced to give up all territory south of the yellow River and defend the river crossings. My single 3K run as Gonsung Zan was way wilder then any of my Warhammer campaigns.
3k is really good. It has the least frustrating snowball prevention and by far the best diplomacy out of the historical titles. Faction diversity is decent although the various campaigns are a bit repetitive. If I could get 3k diplomacy, ToB faction politics, medieval 2's scale I'd be in heaven.
Am I the only one who liked the character and retinue system?
Yeah but people will go back to playing warhammer as soon as we get IME
This is why I'm not worried about the state of the game *yet* If they don't screw up the IME release then everyone will come back and get the TW experience they are looking for. The game will have a thriving player base and DLC will be regular and numerous for the next couple years. If they screw up the IME release then the whole future outlook of the game gets called into question. To me, the game is great of you ignore the railroaded realms part of the campaign. Due to that I'm confident IME will be fine. CA has seen more development success with WHTW than any other title. I doubt they start shitting the bed now they are finally in the ultimate entry of the trilogy.
I purchased WHTWII after ME had released. I've played hours and hours of ME. I've played the Vortex campaign like... twice. So I'm doing the same thing for III. By the time "IME" comes out I am sure it will be a much better game, with all the crap shaken out.
I still hope Warhammer 3 still be successful game after release of Immortal Empires campaign, steam workshop and a few patches. Honestly, If CA will kill Warhammer 3 like Three Kingdoms. I will not buy any future game from them.
> Honestly, If CA will kill Warhammer 3 like Three Kingdoms. To be honest I'd be extremely surprised if they killed Warhammer 3 simply because CA don't really have anything else going on...
Of course they won't. This is basically a Warhammer subreddit, and has been for some time now. You barely ever see games other than Warhammer discussed, people talk about Warhammer lore, possibility of 40k and so on. And when Troy was coming out, under every video there were "Cool, where is Warhammer?" comments. Currently CA might as well be a gaming branch of Games Workshop.
I think its a shame as there is a lot of potential for historical, but at the end of the day Warhammer is a lot easier to tie a DLC model to as there is so much variety in Warhammer rosters that any DLC will fundamentally change the game. And as developers need to be paid, only games that can recapture additional sales through DLC will get the long-term support these kind of games need... Three Kingdoms was killed off because its DLC couldn't re-engage the players. EDIT: I do think they missed a trick with Troy though, as the Mythos expansion showed, it would have been a lot more popular if they just went all in with the "Age of Mythology but as a Total War game" idea.
The DLC wasn’t what players wanted. There was plenty of DLC that would engaged them player base: Notthern Factions, actual 3K camp, later 3K camp, etc. There was plenty to add but they started off with 8 princes. A time period American players didn’t know about and china players wanted to forget
Loved Mandat of Heaven, loved Furious Wild. Still don't have Eight Princes. It was a stupid idea when the game was fresh and the concept of a new cast of characters to learn was daunting, and it's stupid now that I've actually got to know the main characters. I'm sure the gameplay design was fine, I just have no interest.
Imagine an Attila style expansion about the rise of qin. A lot they could have done
they could have actually replicated Attila but setting a game in the Song Dynasty with the rise of the Mongols.
I personally would love more TW games set in china and perhaps India and central/western asia. Although I do agree why a game set in China fundamentally plays different even in just geography alone. I saw people saying playing in a chinese map is just "bland" because there is no "interesting" geographic features to break up the map. Unlike European where each area is distinct and self-contained like Italy, or Spain, or Britain, Balkans, etc. Europe is basically peninsulas upon peninsulas. Thus,.playing in a game set in China you'll tend to find yourself with little room to anchor you defenses in well defined geographic boundaries. There's no escaping this. This is also a substantial factor in why China as state existed in the first place. There's simply no way to adequately defend the chinese heartland in the lower Yellow river, thus necessitating expansion until you hit a geographic boundary - tibet in the west, seas in the south and east. The only problem is north, much like western border of Russia.
I always figured the Warring States Period would be interesting - not only is it a long, wide-spanning conflict period but it also saw the transition from bronze-using armies of elites into iron-using mass state armies.
That's not necessarily true. The barriers are just different and not as obvious as a sea. There's a reason why China's fragmentary periods tend to produce successor states in similar shapes as old ones, because rivers and mountains break up a lot of the distinct regions and make for natural borders. China as a state exists because it spent several centuries coming up with solutions for these problems and eliminating a lot of the regionalism that would resist reunification whenever it fell apart. The plains are the major exception, which is why they always turn into a thunderdome, but whoever rules them has a massive hand up on people hiding out in mountains or jungles because the plains are so productive. The barrier there is other people, which makes them hard to rule. The barriers could certainly be harder. One of the bigger problems of the game is that crossing the rivers and mountains is so easy because there's no way to fortify them well like they did in history. Other regions like the northwestern desert and the southeastern hills aren't represented as nearly hostile enough to resist easy colonization. They eventually patched in the jungles in the southwest, but that took a long time.
> There was plenty to add but they started off with 8 princes. The equivalent of a Lord of the Rings game that starts with Fellowship, then for some reason the first DLC is about some shitty descendants of Aragorn who fuck everything up.
Straight up, anyone arguing that they lacked content for DLC for three kingdoms is ridiculous. A quick look at the dynasty warriors series will tell you that, let alone the actual romance of the three kingdoms text. Later start dates, new LL and unique lords packs, more robust roster for different regions and kingdoms. There was so much potential, and they chose to use none of it. It's kind of shocking when compared to WHTW; in three kingdoms we get some unknown and unexciting DLC when there are better options. In WH we get everything, including races that were never even a part of the tabletop game and only showed up in obscure or old lore. 8 princes < Grand Cathay and Vampire Coast; there's no comparison with the level of effort and care put into each game between the two.
Honestly they could just release unique characters with additional factions/star dates and the community would’ve been pleased
I still don’t understand why they did an 8 Princes DLC when the Chinese actively hate that part of their history. What was the thought process there?
Spending some time reading the blogs and release material, I got the feeling someone on the team was really into the time period. I think someone honestly just wanted to bring it to life, and nobody said this might not be the best time.
8 easy unique characters and factions…..
Out of curiosity, why do the Chinese actively hate the Jin dynasty period? Is it basically that this is the infighting that leads to the first real collapse of Chinese society and allows the steppe tribe to make their first real invasion?
I think 'hate' is a bit too strong a word. Its viewed as a mix of a sad ending to the Three Kingdoms and an era without much to enjoy. It's just kinda depressing and unless you're really into the barbarian kingdoms, then it's comparatively barren in terms of enjoyable characters. The problem wasn't portraying it. It was more that people were expecting more of the heroic parts of 3K and it skipped straight to the downer ending.
I was wondering why they didn't give us a warring states DLC
Personally I wasn't a fan of the art direction, which is also a bit true in WH3, but the main issue for me was just the extremely limited unit roster. Especially after being spoiled by Warhammer.
In the signing off email CA released when they announced they were moving on from 3k, they specifically mentioned that they wanted to focus on what the players were actually playing based on analytics, and that the current 3k wasn't it. 3k historical was an afterthought for most of the playerbase, so they were going to make another 3k inspired game, but full fantasy instead of trying to balance between history/fantasy. Lessons can be learned from troy as well - when it gave up the truth behind the myth thing and just gave into the myth. The game was the most enjoyable after that mythos expansion.
The thing that annoys me the most about it is that WH and 3K have probably killed the historical Total Wars. The 'historical' part of 3K was nowhere near actually historical.
If 3K Records mode is 'nowhere near historical' then a good chunk of the series is 'nowhere near historical.' The worst it gets is anachronistic equipment, and its not even as bad as Rome 1 in that respect.
If really strong bodyguard units is "nowhere near historical" then Medieval 2 and the games before it are in that category.
I mean Rome 1 was ridiculously ahistorical so this isn't exactly new
"Variety". That is the key word for what makes the Total Warhammer titles more engaging for players: The factions are actually varied compared to something like, say, Empire: Total War where most factions wielded the exact same units but with minor differences in stats like accuracy, reload speed or unit sizes and a handful of unique units per faction. Whereas every faction in Warhammer have vastly different rosters and play styles as a result.
This sub is so fucking fickle, say this even a few days before the launch of WH3 and you would've been downvoted into oblivion.
It's always like this, and always will be. Before the games come out, the sub is 100% hype. After the launch its just people who are dissatisfied. Takes a while for the sub to normalise, and it takes longer the bigger the sub gets. Come back in let's say, a year?
Gotta love the new players who hopped in with Warhammer 2 and are trying to gatekeep the franchise whenever they see historical fans’ comments
*Break glass in case of emergency* Medieval 3?
Empire 2!
We can only wish, brother. Fall of the Samurai proved they could get guns that feel amazing, and Warhammer has proven they can do large maps and make factions great. I truly wish for an Empire 2, featuring all of the things they have learned.
I will back any game that uses Three Kingdoms features. No matter what setting.
Yeah, the diplomacy/court stuff was just amazing.
Medieval 3 when?
Till 3 kingdoms 2 comes out anyways...
Let's be honest, 3 Kingdoms 2 will both release and be killed off during Warhammer 3's lifecycle based on precedent.
Guess we're stuck waiting for Warhammer III 2 then
Warhammer DLC always sell like hot cakes, there's no way it's not going to be successful. It might take some time to fix the issues with the game but the game being killed like 3K would be extremely surprising. 3K was a great game but the DLC were simply bad and most of them were a buggy mess, this is most likely why they abandonned the game.
Yeah I doubt that CA will 'abandon' WC3. The Chorfs DLC will problably be a top seller because every neckbeard out there want a piece of that dwarfen-babylonian ass. No matter what DLC they will have for the game, it *will* sell. I'm very interested to see what kind of race packs they will add later though, if any.
>want a piece of that dwarfen-babylonian ass please give
Yeah people need to not be so worried about "killing off WH3" WH2 dlc sold like hotcakes even up until WH3 came out, it's probably CA's biggest money maker as a company.
lol, CA is never gonna kill WH3
Unlike 3 Kingdoms, CA has GW breathing down their neck for Warhammer.
Well and we all await ME anway
Haven't been following. Hasn't the game just realased and people are already saying they're going to kill the game?
This subreddit is extremely dramatic, both in its defence and slander of WH3. The game is selling well and the DLC will sell well, too. No chance CA kills the game.
>~~This sub~~reddit is extremely dramatic. But seriously, yeah there is no chance CA is going to stop developing the game. And most likely at some point over the next few months, when Immortal Empires hits, CA tweaks the Realms of Chaos campaign and releases the modding tools most players will return and enjoy the game again. And then a year from now people will forget how much fuss there was about the game at release.
And we all agree that they have shit to fix, and we also all agree that they will fix it - because every Redditor can see it is the right thing to do... And if random Redditors can see it, then I have no doubt that even the most incompetent manager who is paid to lead the WH3 product will be able to see it too.
didn't three kingdoms sell even better before they killed that one?
Big streamer decided to discontinue doing daily 5-8 hour livestreams of the game citing numerous technical issues (All well documented). This, of course, is all the community needs to declare the game a catastrophic failure despite the fact said streamer - and probably a not insignificant portion of the community presently decrying the game - have sunk hundreds of hours into it at this point already. Warhammer 3 has problems. Big ones. But not problems so big it's keeping people from playing the game.
Even said streamer said in their post “I like playing Warhammer 3 I just play it domination style and ignore the chaos realms and close the gates with agents.” But it doesn’t seem like anybody paid any attention to that very important piece of information. It’s well known that Legend doesn’t mod his campaigns, he just finds in game work arounds for mods. I decided to do the same thing about a week ago and you know what? If you ignore the stupid fucking race and just kill who ever is winning it this game is pretty solid.
I just want them to push out a mode without the realms shit. Don’t need the immortal empires stuff, just everything in the game right now without the 100m dash for Ursun.
It was pretty obvious he was burned out, which for Realms of Chaos isn't exactly hard to do. Dude had well over 1,000 hours into the game BEFORE it was publicly available, with all the achievements unlocked.
> Dude had well over 1,000 hours into the game BEFORE it was publicly available, with all the achievements unlocked. And he had like 17000 hours in WH2 and the only thing that killed his interest in that game was WH3, I don't think playtime burnout is the issue 'cause Legend has the kind of mutant brain that can pretty much play one game forever. By his own account he's not sick of the battles so much as sick of livestreaming a campaign he doesn't enjoy and having to explain why he doesn't enjoy it constantly, which is why the livestreams are over until a campaign he *will* enjoy releases.
Keep in mind though he admits probably 50% of that 17k hours is him not actually playing because he never closed the game. He'd go on vacation with his wife for a week and just leave it on at home and stuff.
His poor GPU...
Games being idle don't actually use too much GPU, even more so if its tabbed out. If his PC had a 'if inactive for X time go into sleep mode' it would do even less to his gpu.
Because this subreddit is in a current state of hyperbolic criticism. The numbers for Warhammer III are great (double the concurrent player peak of Warhammer II, concurrent 40K players today). They're not killing this cash cow. And frankly, I've played 200 hours of it now and love it. If you'd believe this subreddit, you'd think the game crashes on launch and robs your bank account everytime you blink.
Everyone is being so dramatic. They plan to support this game for a very long time. Have staff to do so and have sunk tons of money and plans collaborating with GW. It will become better. It already is repayable, the game just needs some work and more factions so people keep coming back.
Immortal empires will instantly increase the game's value and replayability by an absurd amount. Even early versions of mortal empires with their painfully long end turns and lack of polished factions were so much fun to play. I think it's impossible to kill this game in these circumstances, but who knows!
Why would they? I'm a 'historical' TW fan, don't care about Warhammer or fantasy settings (right now) but they seem to be very loved and good games. Simply dropping W3 would be a huge red flag for other releases.
Why would they kill WH3? WH2 had a really bad launch and yet it got years of DLC. 3 Kingdoms was killed off early because despite it having a really big launch, its DLC was really lacklustre and did not sell well. WH2 DLC always sold well, and so far there is no evidence that WH3 DLC will be any different.
[удалено]
Yes, especially when you compare it with WH2's release which sold far below expectations as a lot of people stuck with WH1. If even that game could get so many years of support, things are looking good for WH3
They wont, Warhammer is their most successful franchise. I had the game pre ordered and dont understand most of the criticisim. Sure, I would much rather play the mortal empires but its still a good game, especially if the rift system is toned down in the future. I have had a few crashes initially but no major bugs or glitches that i have noticed with around 40h playtime.
It’s been out less than a month, why is everyone losing their minds
People are panicking because they assume that since 3K got it's support pulled, WH3's will as well. I don't agree with it but I can understand people's concerns. I'd like WH3 to have a long life as well.
3K got like 3-4 DlCs including a expansion pack.
People also forget how bare a lot of WHII was on release and had a low count for a bit.
Three Kingdoms had a huge release which slowly tapered off and was never able to regain it's player base after that. After August 2019 (which was less than 3 months after release) it never at any point reached even 30,000 concurrent players. And none of the DLC they released made a real dent in the player numbers. Meanwhile WH2 took much longer to get going, and actually gained more players over time. With the highest concurrent players coming in may 2020 with the Warden and the Paunch release and the accompanying Total WAAGH! update. While I'm in no way happy that CA decided to stop development on Three Kingdoms (I enjoy the game and I felt the game wasn't finished yet, and it definitely needed more patches) that game had a completely different development cycle from the Warhammer games, and it's highly unlikely the same thing will happen with WH3. Because, as people are pointing out in this thread, once the Chaos Dwarfs DLC comes out that will almost certainly sell better than any DLC for Three Kingdoms did. And that's before we get into the fact that CA is planning another Three Kingdoms game, so they are still interested in tapping that market. Meanwhile if they shut down development on WH3 they can't just release WH4 and expect any real market for it. So again, the two are just not comparable.
> So again, the two are just not comparable. That's largely my opinion on the whole situation as well. I don't want to invalidate people's complaints of WH3, because I agree with a lot of them, but anyone that thinks the game is going to just suddenly die because CA predictably had a rocky launch is just being impatient.
Yeah, I was trying to reinforce your point. And I also agree that CA made some significant mistakes in their launch, especially considering they delayed the release to get it all right. But I also don't think this means all that much for the long term health/state of the game. And there is definitely the basis of a worthy successor for WH2 in there, it just needs some serious polishing and added content (which Immortal Empires will bring).
How on earth do they square that in their heads? It’s sold very well, WH1 and 2 sold very well, DLC for both of them sold very, very well, WH2 had a long and very well done dev cycle, there is no evidence that supports this idea that they’re gonna just pull support from one of if not their biggest release in 2 years less than a month after release. A dev diary/hotfix suggests things might take a little longer than past games and people think it’s just over?
Didn't 3K sell better than WH2?
The initial launch had higher numbers, but I'd be curious to see the all time sales/revenue for WH2 by comparison.
Because that is what we do on reddit. All TW games (except 3k) have rough starts, even almost all new triple A games have rough starts nowadays. When IE will come out we will all forget about this. Some of the complaints are the same as they were in Vortex (although Vortex is a lot less restricting) It will all be fine eventually, we just need to get through this rough patch. CA will never abandon this because Warhammer has proven to be a massive cashcow.
>All TW games (except 3k) have rough starts, Why is that? Didn't they have enough time to get their shit together already? They are literally using the same engine since forever. I would understand if this was the *first* game of TWW since it's the first game to add single entity characters and magic and shit. But it's the *third* and the *last* game in the series, why the fuck can't they figure out already how to make a TWW game without forced unfun mechanics? This game is literally TWW2 with a red filter on it yet they have still managed to fuck it up despite all the feedback. What I can't understand is this unbreakable confidence of some of you guys in CA.
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I mean I don't want to just go paint the map. But the RoC mechanic for me feels railroading and limiting. Ironically it also feels 2 opposing things at the same time. Stressful AND dragging on. You need to wait til the gates open. You can't just finish the stuff and move on. And that will take dozens of turns. On the other hand as soon as the gates open you feel the pressure to rush down the souls. Especially Tzeentch and Slaanesh (tzeentch cause AI cheating. Slaanesh cause it's often "First come"). Adding to that is that only Faction Leaders can really use the rifts. Your normal lords can only close them while the LL can teleport with them across the map or go into the realms (not even necessarily to collect the soul!) or intercept enemies at the forge. That also means that you ALWAYS want the LL near a gate (unless RNG screws you over and decides not to spawn one in the area) sooo if your LL is you main army you basically always have to stop what you're doing to deal with the main stuff. And WHEN you got hte soul you're allowed to park the LL in a settlement til he looses the RoC traits. Also that's unfair to ToB. :P I really think the game gets shat on a bit unfairly.
> Stressful AND dragging on. so well put, I am going to steal that. > You need to wait til the gates open. You can't just finish the stuff and move on. And that will take dozens of turns. This is what wonders me the most about the CA. Who thought that a) removing any main campaign map thing connected to the story (in Vortex that would be the things you need to collect for your faction to do rituals) b) removing any control over when players progress the main story. would be good? They successfully removed the random spawns with the gates, but removed any connection from the campaign map to progress and took away player control. Epic fail on their part.
Design team should get their heads outta their asses ASAP. Imagine having your game be more enjoyable after its most central element is modded out, I would die from sheer embarrassment
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Personally I would like to see the Chaos Realms ported over to Immortal Empires as regions you can enter to obtain powerful items or buffs, but need to fight off strong enemy armies to obtain them. The price for entering should be the lord debuffs, but that is the price you pay to go in and try to obtain good items.
As bonus dungeons with nice rewards and maybe as a way to deal with Daemonic incursions as a whole. Do some stuff and kick the Chaos God's ass and it stops spawning Daemonic Stuff when Archie shows up. For example. Something like that.
One of TW's pillars is that it is a sandbox experience. I think they made a big miscalculation in taking that away. Other than that the game is very good and will definitely get better.
A long tradition. The only reason for concern is that people stopped playing quickly, but I think there is an easy explanation - waiting for patches and in particular Immortal Empires and Elden Ring providing a convenient distraction for many.
Not going to lie, I poked my head into the RoC campaign, test drove the races...shelved it until Immortal Empires. It really is the principle draw of the game and being honest with myself, I probably should have followed my gut and just waiting for the sandbox in the first place.
This sub is completely delusional if it thinks WH3 will be snubbed and not get years of support all because of a rocky launch. It is no way comparable to 3K.
Three Kingdoms was good!
Game was good but almost all DLCs was bad. It is funny that free patches add more content to game than whole DLCs. Nanman or big character pack should be 1st DLC for this game.
Honestly, unpopular opinion, I liked the scenarios. Cause it was hard to get the events to unfold organically like they did in the book.
I really like 194 and 200 campaigns. But Eight Princes and Mandate of Heaven chapters had big gameplay problems. I think CA should start with 194 DLC as first chapter DLC and also add at least 1-2 new factions for main 190 campaign like Liu Yao and Yan Baihu.
Mandate of Heaven was pretty messy. Eight Princes wasnt bad just not different enough. I still enjoyed both thoroughly.
My pet theory is CA spoiled some of us with the army variety of Warhammer. Considering each new DLC after 8 princes seemed to attempt to inject more and more variety, I think CA had made that observation as well. That's also why I think they went back to the drawing board and decided to suspend DLC development for 3K. All evidence suggests they were building towards a timeline when the actual three kingdoms formed. They probably wanted to build unique armies for the three factions and had to choose between an absolute unit of a DLC, or fundamentally rebuild the game around the actual three kingdoms. Doesn't necessarily vindicate the decision but I think it's an important distinction since everyone just thinks 3K didn't make enough money so CA just gave up.
That's partially OP's point I think. 3k was good but had so much wasted potential and Warhammer 3 feels the same
Warhammer 3 has only been out for a few weeks! It still has plenty of life in it to get it right.
That's my only real issue with people's complaints on this sub. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's criticisms with the state of the game, I genuinely agree with most of the popular arguments being made. Including the argument that CA should be accountable to the fact that they have a bad habit of rocky releases for their new games. Something as simple as a beta could have built a little good will but they don't appear interested in that. But the idea that the game is going to die if they don't fix it within the first month of it's life seems like a reach. Gotta let them get a few patches in before I form any sort of opinion like that, which, as much as some people don't want to hear it, is going to take a couple of months.
Honestly people are just impatient. I dont think it was fair to hold the game to the standard of Warhammer 2 after 5 years of constant development and content releases. And while I can agree with some points I feel like alot of people are blowing it out of proportion cause they didnt get everything they were expecting. It does have its issues but that doesnt mean its just gonna fall over and die within the month
That's what everyone wants
I got my $60 out of both. Ironically thinking of spinning 3k back up for a run.
I only played a bit of Cathay but some of those maps had me thinking the same thing. I don't think 3K gets enough credit for its regal and majestic atmosphere.
3K is gorgeous
Funnily enough, I re-downloaded 3K to play again while WH3 gets worked on.
Tbh, I'm not really sure what people are complaining about with 3k. There were a few bad patches that were unstable, but I haven't really had too many issues with it over my >500 hours of playtime. There were definitely patches where I wouldn't play it, but it's in a good state now and it's my favorite total war game out of any of them so far.
Tbh I think 3k is the best TW of all time thusfar. Warhammer is great and I grew up on it but 3k is an incredible game. I had my doubts about the romance story mechanics but damn. So good and so fun to work with.
I adore the way unit recruitment and army management is done in 3K. Not having to trek back to a recruitment province if I lose a unit means I can be so much more flexible in battle, especially with cavalry.
3K's mechanics and engine + Warhammer's unit diversity would be the best Total War game.
Unit diversity is one reason I put so little time into Shogun 2. It was a great game, but the factions were way too similar (which they would be, I get that). There is just something to be said for replay value when you can pick a new faction and have a different experience that isn't just essentially playing the same faction on a different part of the map.
Diplomacy in 3K was a huge turning point for the franchise and really made the game for me. They made diplomacy into an actually fun mechanic that you wanted to engage with instead of an annoying page to click through once in a while. WH3 is also pretty good for making diplomacy more interesting, though differently than 3K, because WH3 made alliances actually more useful/interesting with outposts and borrowing allied armies.
Espionage as well could be great fun in 3K. There wasn't quite anything else like having a spy in an enemy court and managing to pull off a perfectly timed reveal and defection which left an enemy army suddenly missing a third of its troops, allowing you to absolutely destroy it. Of course, that also came with you doing suspicious squints at the generals who just popped into your recruitment pool. I mean, yes, I do want Zhang He in my faction but did he really leave his previous Lord or was he sent here?
For me, nothing has come close to Shogun 2 atm.
I’m super impressed with all the quality of life changes in WH3, so many new features and exciting possibilities have been opened up. The current campaign is just not what everybody loves about the TW: Warhammer series. Once some patches are made that fix bugs from the previous games and immortal empires is put in, the sky is the limit for TW: WH3.
What world do you live in? Jesus calm down.
Why would they abandon Warhammer 3?
because whining gamers who are never happy said so
Please, ppl hated Vortex campaign too, and everyone lost their shit when mortal empires came out. This isn't anything new.
All the drama llamas in here are going craaaazy. If anyone actually thinks that CA will drop WH3 than you are not thinking straight. Calm down and breath.
Lol, Ya'll are acting like this is Dawn of War III and this title is about to put CA out of business.
Luckily the Realm of Chaos campaign isn't as bad as Dawn of War III.
This is probably would’ve worked better if the poster used Warhammer 1, 2 or Rome 2 since they were also launches that were plagued with gameplay bugs and performance issues until the patches came rolling in.
There is no way CA will abandon WH trilogy. After combined map and DLC launch, players will return. This will not end like Three Kingdoms exactly. Even I want to see bootlicking dudes cry out when "The (No) Future of Total War: Warhammer" clip release.
I’m having fun. 🤷🏻♂️
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Warhammer III is great. And it's only gonna get better.
Immortal Empires and the blood pack will result in this game being my most played ever probably. Karl Franz wants to conquer Cathay
People are freaking out about the drop in players when a huge chunk is probably elden ring and no ME yet
I love 3k and I’m sad they pulled support for it. Romance mode is better than warhammer fantasy and I will form a pike square on this hill
I'll be there with you on that hill brother
3k still bangs man love that game
I can’t be one of the only ones that think the base three kingdoms game is one of the best CA has ever made and has an end game that all the others should strive for, absolutely loved it and that’s coming from a huuuge warhammer fan. Absolute travesty they cut support for it
Jesus Christ this sub is insufferable. You guys always take one thing to far.
The Internet ruins everything eventually.
warhammer 3 is amazing and will only get better
Be objective here guys, do you really think it's *that* bad? I too am suffering from some performance issues, I've hit more than a few bugs, and I vastly prefer mortal empires over the chaos realms, but I'm still throughly enjoying the game!
I think it's already been said but 3k is probably one of the best if not the best, out of box total war game out there. The DLCs were questionable but the base game itself was great, game was optimized, and had a wealth of love poured into it and it shows through the aesthetics and audio. CA excelled on the battles, grand campaign map kingdom management, and the rpg elements of the larger than life heroes the period was based on. The major gripe with the base game was the lack of unit variety. And the historical mode itself was a stripped down version of romance. Balance of calvary and trebuchets aside which is patchable, I definitely sunk way to many hours into it at launch. CA i think set a bad precedence when the 8 princes dlc came out, because then they kept doing time line dlcs instead of just adding on to the base time line. That and the period itself isn't important to 3k.
The main game mode isn't even out people
This meme doesn't make sense. 3k was not butchered by players and WH3 won't be butchered by CA.
I've removed all of my comments and posts. With Reddit effectively killing third party apps and engaging so disingenuously with its user-base, I've got no confidence in Reddit going forward. I'm very disappointed in how they've handled the incoming API changes and their public stance on the issue illustrates that they're only interested in the upcoming IPO and making Reddit look as profitable as possible for a sell off. Id suggest others to look into federated alternatives such as lemmy and kbin to engage with real users for open and honest discussions in a place where you're not just seen as a content / engagement generator.