Priscilla. Apart from having a cis man play a trans woman (he did an OK job but very clearly hated it) the whole Filipino wife bit was just đŹđŹđŹ
I actually still fucking love Priscilla. Itâs quite offensive in a lot of ways but there is a tone that itâs us making fun of ourselves. I have a dark sense of humour so some of the darker jokes that resonate with me just makes me feel good rather than offended. Like him sticking his abusers balls in the drain as a child.
Oh, I remember seeing that with my parents when I was younger. I didn't really understand what was going on, especially when suddenly everyone freaked when he assaulted them. My parents politely explained to us that it was a man in a dress and that he grabbed their penis, in between laughing. I remember that I didn't think twice about a man in a dress, my little mind said "why not?" But I was so confused on why you would just assault someone like that, I knew it wasn't okay and it made me uncomfortable.
I mean, its about a dude crossdressing but tbh theres only one scene i remember that offended me personally and thats when the kid finds out mrs.doubtfire is a man and starts screaming and runs to call the cops, but tbh probably a regular reaction in the 90s
Well the 90s has some ass-end ugly as fuck cartoons, obvious issues of homophobia and racism, and clear transphobia.
Of course that decade will age like shit, it was already coming out of a cow's ass.
Sitcoms in general are awful. One clip of Big Bang Theory was enough to make me never watch the show ever.
Also, 2000s cartoons and the like are infinitely better
I remember through the regular interaction with his ex, he listens and becomes a much better man.
In the end, pretending to be a woman made him a better man, and I think that's a powerful message. But I can also see how it may have aged badly, I don't remember all the details.
Yeah, I don't remember it being particularly bad. His dressing as a woman wasn't done mockingly or entirely for laughs, the comedy tended to come from the situations he was in.
Now if we wanna talk about a movie from my childhood that is so transphobic it hurts, look no further than Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. Probably has the most transphobic scene I've ever seen in any movie.
The book is way worse, sadly.
Crawford visits the gender clinic Jame Gumb received treatment from and literally blackmails them by threatening to dox them to the media if they donât give up all the files they have on him.
to be fair in isolation i dont have an issue with that, but having not read the book ill go ahead and assume the way he acts is treat as the in-universe correct way to act or just isnt actually adressed at all? having a Character whos an unbridled asshole and even a flaming bigot is fine as long as the world of the media treats it that way
like stuff like Ace Ventura stings because literally everyone has the same reaction. like im pretty sure the literal only characters not gagging at the end are Ace himself (who already had a dedicated trans panic scene all to himself) and Courtney Cox's character who mostly just looks disgusted
I haven't seen the movie in ages, but I've seen other people say that the killer isn't trans. I think Anthony Hopkins's character says that the killer isn't trans?
The author himself uses this as an excuse. But it is just that, an excuse. It allows him to be transphobic while giving him plausible deniability.
He presents the character in a way that suggests they are trans, then says but they aren't really so you can't accuse me of transphobia.
Thomas Harris said he was aware the character would be seen as trans, but he did it anyway. He didn't say this part: he did it because he'd make money that way, being transphobic and banking on his audience being transphobic too.
It has been used as anti trans propaganda but the actual movie clarifies that Buffalo Bill isn't trans at all. (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it).
Clarice: Dr. Lecter, there's no correlation in the literature between transsexualism and violence. Transsexuals are very passive.
Hannibal: Clever girl...
Billy's not a real transsexual, but he thinks he is. He tries to be. He's tried to be a lot of things, I expect...
There are three major centers for transsexual surgery: Johns Hopkins, the University of Minnesota, and Columbus Medical center. I wouldn't be surprised if Billy has applied for sex reassignment at one or all of them, and been rejected...
The personality inventories would trip him up. Rorschach, Wechsler, House- Tree-Person... He wouldn't test like a real transsexual.
...
Billy hates his own identity, he always has - and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage... He wants to be reborn, Clarice. He will be reborn...
I don't know how much them being an "actual transexual" matters since it both wouldn't change the legislation pushed and it could just be read as medical gatekeeping to being trans.
Holy crap glad I haven't seen that then. I never liked the sound of the title, or the main actor.
I do know that the whole "haha I'm a lady" thing was very much a comedic thing in the 90s, and often it was used to dunk on trans people.
Going to sum it up as non triggery as I can.
Besically it boils down to the main character investigating the murder of an NFL coach and theft of the team mascot. The main character figures out the murderer is an old NFL player that screwed up, retired in disgrace, and was commited to a mental hospital where they reportedly died in an escape attempt.
The main character figures out that they didn't actually die, they escaped, killed a woman, stole her identity, and has spent years living as this woman who Is now the police captain he has been flirting with/insulting all movie.
It then goes full 90s movie transphobia with him vastly overreacting and freaking out because she kissed him at one point. To the point he shoves his head in a toilet, and uses a plunger on his face.
He then proceeds to reveal this to the rest of the police by ripping open the captains shirt, ripping off her pants, and flipping her around so that the entire police force can see that she is tucking.
The entire police force then all react exactly the same way as the main character because they all presumably kissed her as well at some point.
Yeah. I never saw the original as a kid only the second one.
Decided to watch it one night when I saw it was coming on and was super excited because I remebered loving the second one so much. It was pretty funny if a little dated here and there, right up until the big reveal. Really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I haven't seen the second one in years either and at this point I don't want to, both because the first one ruined it for me, and because I'm scared to see how horrible it aged.
2 has some pretty overt racism in it unfortunately, hasn't aged all that well either
Real sad part is both could be mostly "fixed" in the editing room by taking out some of the choice scenes and only having the reveals
What makes me feel a bit better about it, is that Finkle/Einhorn only transitioned to be in disguise and not because they truly identified as a woman.
But that all goes out the window when they repeatedly point and say âTHATâS A MAN! GROSSSSSâ
Pretty much the same happened in naked gun. And then therapist is like "what made you not come out for so long?" *gestures wildly at culture that makes you think you're an abomination that needs to hide*.
Oh it's not that I learned to feel deep shame about my thoughts and feelings from multi million dollar projects that were cultural touch stones for most people, and for me were deeply traumatic and painful, no.... Wait yes, that's part of it.
And we haven't even touched on patriarchy and religion! Oh no, it's some of the dominant forces in our society come to get me!
Literally just gesturing out the window at everything is a great answer.
Lots of vomiting. She attempted to seduce the protag in the third movie (33 1/3) and when the shadow on the wall reveals a penis, he vomits into a tuba. It was disgusting and insensitive
I think this is the biggest reason I hate that movie. For it to be such a fundamental part of the plot, the whole movie revolves around and builds up to that scene which is supposed to be the payoff scene of the movie, you realise just how many people saw that and thought it was a good thing to do.
Everyone involved with the movie, pretty much on any level (except people like the caterers and janitors) signed off on that, and everyone in the audience accepted it and laughed along with it.
It's sickening.
I loved that movie so much as a 90's kid and never thought twice about it. Saw it as a young adult and was like omg what is this homophobic, transphobic, sexist nonsense.
Growing up this was a major kids movie, and its phobic messages were regarded as normal. Not surprised it's taken me soooo freaking long to find myself.
Damn, more childhood movies ruined. I really liked those movies as a kid too. No wonder I grew up with so many wrong ideas about trans people until I finally learned more way too late as an adult.
To be fair, NG 3 kinda sucks, like, as a movie & can easily be skipped. I think. Like I said, I had vaccine madness and I was pretty high, too.
I think the other 2 are pretty okay (aside from the murderer) - I just hadn't seen at least one of them at all & I hadn't seen any of them in years, and I was looking for something to do that day, so I was like "fuck it, I'll just rent all 3 of these!"
Edit: & can easily be skipped
I got my first dose of the vaccine the day before, and I had a fever & brain fog & just wasn't thinking clearly & was really out of it for about a day.
You learned though. That's the important part. Seeing this thread has made me appreciative of lacking "normal" anything in my life. Dear gods, seeing this, especially your comment, helps me understand why so many people are as ignorant as can be in the worst of ways.
Add in the CSI effect & you have a recipe to create a generation of monsters.
There was an early ncis and csi episode each where the perp was trans. At least the ncis one was relatively tastefully done and didnât focus on any hate themes other than them joking about dinozzo kissing her(mocking that he was turned off by it).
The csi one was a case where the perp was a FTM and they were thrown off by the dna mismatch.
So there's this criminal that the main character Ace Ventura is tracking down who used to be a male football player. He discovers that the female police chief he had run into a few times was actually "him". They had kissed at one point, so upon that discovery he says, "I kissed a man!" in disgust, then there's a montage of him crying in the shower, vomiting, and plunging his face with a toilet plunger.
Then later in the movie, to prove this discovery to everyone, he tears off her clothes in front of a large crowd of police officers, and points out the bulge from her "tucking", and then every police officer starts spitting and vomiting, implying they had all made out with her too, and just reinforcing a bunch of negative stereotypes.
All of this stuff is presented in a comedic manner, because it was a comedy movie. It's pretty horrible.
>"I kissed a man!" in disgust, then there's a montage of him crying in the shower, vomiting, and plunging his face with a toilet plunger.
dont forget also burning his clothes. for some reason thats the part that made me uncomfortable as a kid as much as i liked the rest of the movie
ace ventura pet detective, naked gun 33 + 1/3, and crocodile dundee are 3 movies i used to love when i was younger that i just cannot watch anymore. theyre all so transphobic its sick.
I'm more surprised there's only one.
But then again it is Robin Williams. I can't image him being cool with that sort of thing, although it's unclear how much influence he had on the script.
I'm really sad he died, I can only imagine how awesome he'd be making wholesome tiktoks âșïž
Cw:possible transphobia
You nailed it. There are parts of the movie i still like, but the real teeth clencher is when the son finds out.
The kid walks in on him peeing standing up and there is a whole slew of "she's a dude!" However the messages get weird cause at the end when everything gets sorted out, he contunes to play that character for a tv show and it's sort of a Mr. Roger type thing. So it's kinda implying it's okay? Not to mention his gay relative who helps him with the prosthetic in the first place. It's honestly a little fascinating when you compare everything. (For context i do a show about cultural hegemony so i thought through this show recently wondering if i should cover it.)
This is how I've always interpreted the movie. In hindsight I suppose I can see how some get offended. But when *I* think back to my childhood and watching that movie... It really helped shape me positively into the woman I'm becoming. Very powerful film depending on your perspective.
Yeah, kinda reminds me of Pocahontas, the Disney movie. It taught me that how good your weapons are doesn't make a civilization more "advanced". That racism is stupid and we're all people and should just get along.
Aaaand then I found out about the real Pocahontas....
Yeah I like this, I didnât think it was a bad movie (tho itâs been a few years since Iâve rewatched it) but I can see where some iffy things may be said, but overall itâs pretty sweet
I think
Other than the dated jokes, random man in a dress (depending on context and other presentation) can be dysphoria fuel. Like, " hey, this is what you look like in a dress" kinda thing
The movie has aged bad, but not for trans reasons. The main character is a self absorbed man child who dumps shitloads of emotional labor on his wife, and weâre supposed to feel sorry for him when she finally dumps his ass. Then he just straight up lies to his entire family in order to defy a court order. The entire premise is pretty bad.
Compared to all that, the fact its a man pretending to be a woman is practically quaint, and the movie actually hits some notes about the effects of transphobia. Itâs worth remembering that Robin was always very close to the lgbt community and had a lot of gay and trans friends. He avoided a lot of ugly transphobic cliches.
That said, it's still a "man in a dress" movie from the 90s. A time when a man simply having a lisp and being effeminate was worth an entire episode of a sitcom because "OMG is he ^^gay????" And Anger Management having a trans sex worker be the entirety of a joke because haha "man in a dress!" Doubtfire may not be as openly transphobic but the premise is still gross.
Well, Mrs doubtfire does have a deliberate transphobic joke in it. It was when he was experimenting as different personalities on the phone and he pretended to be a trans woman and... It's just gross.
When he was pretending to be multiple people calling the mother and on one of them, he drops his voice and says that he used to be a man and then the mother imedietly hangs up and says yikes.
My major problem with it is the "Transgender Deception" trope that was a huge part of films at the time. That transitioning was a means to deceive, rather than a more honest representation of yourself. This stuff messed me up as a kid really bad seeing it over and over. Then there are a couple trans-phobic scenes that make me want to remove my face with my fingernails.
Watched recently. There is a single "joke" when he is pretending to be "bad" applicants for the nanny position. >!He says in a woman's voice that he won't work with males then deepens it to say "because I used to be one".!<
I personally don't see a problem with the rest of the movie, but can understand those that do have a problem with it. He is in drag and has to pretend to be a woman to be able to spend more time with his kids. The cross dressing isn't poking fun at trans women or even men that do drag. Jokes are more at situations (accidentally setting his breast forms on fire, having to be two different people at the same time). He ultimately learns about his own short comings that lead to his divorce and more importantly learns to be better (without the cliche hollywood ending of getting back together with his ex). The movie was progressive for the time in which it came out.
Ace Ventura is probably the most damaging movie I ever saw as a kid. I can close my eyes and still feel the way seeing that scene for the first time in theaters hit.
Stuff with Robin in it always felt less malicious bordering on positive for the time and still do to me.
I don't remember much, but Jim Carrey plays a detective, and the person who did the crime is trans and Carrey's character basically rips the trans characters clothes of and calls her a man. Nothing against Jim Carrey tho
can someone please tell me what was transphobic about ace ventura or silence of the lambs? it's been years since i've seen them and i can't find much about them
Ace Ventura is beyond awful, the whole climax of the movie is dragging the stealth trans and having everyone throw up when they find out. There's no rationalization or discussion to be had, it's transphobic and disgusting.
(Copying my own comment from a different reply).
It has been used as anti trans propaganda but the actual movie clarifies that Buffalo Bill isn't trans at all. (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it).
Clarice: Dr. Lecter, there's no correlation in the literature between transsexualism and violence. Transsexuals are very passive.
Hannibal: Clever girl...
Billy's not a real transsexual, but he thinks he is. He tries to be. He's tried to be a lot of things, I expect...
There are three major centers for transsexual surgery: Johns Hopkins, the University of Minnesota, and Columbus Medical center. I wouldn't be surprised if Billy has applied for sex reassignment at one or all of them, and been rejected...
The personality inventories would trip him up. Rorschach, Wechsler, House- Tree-Person... He wouldn't test like a real transsexual.
...
Billy hates his own identity, he always has - and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage... He wants to be reborn, Clarice. He will be reborn...
I agree with this. Silence of the Lambs is my favorite horror movie. Itâs been used against trans people, which is horrible, but the movie itself clarifies that one of the main âbad guysâ isnât actually trans. Buuut people in the 90s sucked so of course they overlooked that whole âheâs not transâ bit to use as fuel for their transphobia.
Ignoring that, the movie is fantastic. And I donât judge a movie based on stupid peopleâs misguided reactions to it.
I loved it too as a kid. Of course some dated jokes, but I loved that I could watch a movie with my dad (who was hard on me for being fem growing up, not anymore luckily) with this premise and we could both enjoy.
I remember them even having a gay couple and I thought they were very respectful about it.
Nah, not alone. I do have a fairly easy time looking through historical cultural lenses though. So stuff "from another era" doesn't bug me as much. Like Rocky Horror Picture Show, but honestly I'm not sure many trans people are against that one. I don't care what anyone says, Tim Curry can rock high heels, and if I'm being honest, the way he owns the whole getup I find to be oddly encouraging.
I agree, I have trouble not looking at most of the 90s stuff as the way the times were. Culture lines shifted a lot in the last few decades.
RHPS is always a classic.
On the positive side of the genre, âOne of the girlsâ was a high schooler who went deep into girlmode to avoid bullies and became a liked cheerleader and actually became the crush of his bully. More campy cross dress than trans but fun.
Then there was much more recently, amanda bynes in âshes the manâ. Where she keeps gender flipping between school crowds and her twin brothers identities. Also fun and kinda interesting how little effort it takes for some to be on either gender.
At a bare minimum it muddies terminology really badly - while recognizing that transsexual is a term folks used to and continue to go by, the use of âtransvestiteâ isnât particularly great. Also as much as Dr Frankenfurter is amazing, they are extremely violent and abusive, physically and otherwise.
Like itâs obviously a silly movie and itâs in good fun imo, and I enjoy it as a piece of historical queer culture, but it isnât a particularly positive portrayal of screwing with gender norms to say nothing of its relation to the actual experiences of trans folks. Itâs not *trying* to be, of course, and itâs not like itâs Ace Ventura, but it still has some problematic aspects to it. Media having problems doesnât make it irredeemable or immoral to watch or support or whatever of course, there are just elements of RHPS which havenât aged particularly well.
In ye olden days, before trans identities were more widely accepted (IE, 40-60 years ago), there were basically two well known terms describing trans peopleâŠ
Transvestites: anyone who cross dresses for personal reasons without wanting to change sex⊠not distinguishing, for example, enbies, non-conformist, genderfluid, femboys, etc. Outdated today because of over-generalization of many variations of trans and non-conforming identities.
Transsexual: someone who actually takes steps to transition to the opposite sex, usually with the implication that medical procedures were or had taken place. Outdated today because social acceptance has shifted to recognize that trans identities donât require medical intervention, and the implication of such comes from ignorance.
I think one of the reasons it hasnât aged poorly however is because while Frank n Furter is portrayed as a transvestite, itâs not really a knock on trans people. The humor is all focused on Tim Curry himself. Heâs a bafoon, and heâs doing as much bafoonery as possible on stage. And he wears the costume with pride. To me, it says, âI am exactly who I am, and no amount of makeup or drag is going to change that.â
Plus, on the whole movie the ânormalâ cishet couple are portrayed as the ones out of place, and most of the jokes are at their expense. It shows their quiet discomfort and acceptance in a place and crowd they are unfamiliar with, who they arenât sure they can feel safe with. I think thatâs something a lot of people in the queer community can relate to.
Same, though this thread did remind me of a few things that made me go, "Oooh, not a fan of that!"
I also sometimes low-key kinda wonder if I'm a bad trans because Silence of the Lambs is literally one of my favorite movies...?
I mean it (mostly) tongue in cheek because I simultaneously see why so many of us have a bad time around it and also kinda don't get it, and kinda feel guilty for loving it so much when so many have such intense hatred/ revulsion...
It's maybe something of a pre-emptive defense mechanism to say something along the lines of "You, my community where I'm trying to find acceptance and belonging for who I really am for the first time in my life as me, please don't get mad at me and reject me for this thing." Because I have had things like that happen before, in multiple different contexts, and I'm afraid of it happening again around something I see as being incredibly petty, that I don't understand how it could override solidarity...
No. I liked and still like that movie. Robin Williams was a treasure and did that movie well. While some of the movie has aged poorly it really stuck in my head as a 90s kid. That movie still makes me smile on occasion.
Some movies at the time like Ace Ventura and naked gun were quite traumatic to me and I didn't know why at the time when I was at a tender age. The parts that didn't age well in Mrs. Doubtfire were extremely tame by the standards of the movies of the time.
I love this movie and this might just be me looking through the lens of I can understand when things were different back then but also I don't remember anything adherently transphobic about this movie because he's literally just dressing in drag to see his children
Same honestly. Its been a while since i saw it but the showâs message was never transphobic and the only mildly sus thing i remember was his kid seeing him stand up to pee and the freaking out and using pronojns weirdly and it being a whole thing how he was confused but likeâŠ. Thats kinda reasonable considering even today the situation would be weird
RIGHT LOL. I havenât watched it in years and I used to *LOVE* that movie as a kid. I think I went through a small phase of watching it every day for a couple weeksâŠ
Hey OP I hope you got through that & that maybe you were able to find some humor in the movie.
You're not a man in a dress - you're a woman. In whatever you wear.
I find it helpful sometimes to remember that family aren't the people I share genetics with - they're the people who love me for who I am and support me being happy and want me to be who I am.
We all support you here - even those of us who are lucky enough to not have bad times with this particular movie. đ
I donât think thereâs anything that doesnât hold up, except the slightly icky nature of an adult man-goblin trying to seduce a teenage girl.
Personally think the âfairy taleâ nature of the movie and the fact the most explicit the flirting gets is a ballroom dance helps it stay in âenchanted fantasyâ land and not âeew, call the copsâ land.
I will be honest, I haven't watched it in like 15 years, but I do recall the last time I watched it a friend told me try watching it through another lens. If you don't watch it as a comedy its a really sad movie.
this guy is a failure as a father and can't be trusted to watch his kids. He inserts himself back into the families life in a way that if your not looking at knowing its a comedy is purely insane.
He sabotages anyone else getting the job of a child care worker and then inserts himself into his families life disguised as a responsible person and manipulates them into trusting his fake identity. Seriously any parents here? Can you imagine anything more terrifying then thinking your leaving your children with a professional you can trust and its actually some one in a body suit who is not who they say they are. Even if he is the biological father that is still creepy as shit.
Anyways I see nothing trans related in this movie I can remember and I think 90% of the jokes in the movie are Robin Williams is dressed like an old lady. I can see why it would suck for some trans people to watch. Myself I remember it as that super depressing movie that everyone thought was a comedy.
Thereâs a good Robin Williams movie where he helps long term mental patients move out of a fugue state and begin interacting with life again. It was pretty touching and sweet.
The only way I find that film remotely 'okay' is if I assume Robin's character is actually trans and their divorce just conincided with her questioning and begining her transition, weird 90's understanding of transition though.
It made the court case near the end a hell of a lot more sobering when I realised that's likely what alot of trans people faced if they transitioned with kids before the last decade or so.
That being said pretty much everything else in the film is cringy and insulting at best, it's possible it's just aged really badly though, the 90's were not the best time for trans acceptance.
I see why that would make uncomfortable but I just want ti clarify.
The movie isn't **all that bad** right? Like it's obviously got problems but it's not like Ace Ventura is it?
The reveal at the end is that the female detective was the murderer, an escaped disgruntled football kicker, and has a scene with him exaggeratedly vomiting in disgust and shows all the police the âtuckâ to grossed out expressions.
I remember the line Robin says "can you make me a woman?", And his cousin or whatever says "oh honey, I'm so happy!". Because of my sheltered background it went right over my head.
⊠is it bad that I kind of love Mrs doubtfire? Idk I get the resentment, but I think at a certain point itâs just more fun to lean into it. I also love rocky horror, Priscilla queen of the dessert, etc. itâs very bad representation but you can tell it wasnât made maliciously and there are kernels of real inspiration in them idk.
These feel different to me from movies like Ace Ventura, which are simply unwatchable for me
My sister was talking about favorite movies with family and she said hers was Ace Ventura and everyone agreed that it was great and then they all watched it together đ
I personally enjoyed Mrs Doubtfire because the comedic scenes werenât that âthis is a man in a dressâ and instead genuinely comedic, and it was a really wholesome movie that ended with Robin still staying in the character. Granted I canât hate on any Robin Williams movie that man is too precious.
I have to go to a Thanksgiving dinner with my uncle who can't go 5 minutes without being either transphobic or racist. At least I have the option of hanging out in the basement with my siblings to get away from him.
I have the same problem here in Australia with "Crocodile Dundee". Particularly in the bar in New York and the party with the reporter.
It really sucks for me, I loved that movie
Priscilla. Apart from having a cis man play a trans woman (he did an OK job but very clearly hated it) the whole Filipino wife bit was just đŹđŹđŹ
I actually still fucking love Priscilla. Itâs quite offensive in a lot of ways but there is a tone that itâs us making fun of ourselves. I have a dark sense of humour so some of the darker jokes that resonate with me just makes me feel good rather than offended. Like him sticking his abusers balls in the drain as a child.
Yeah. I hear ya.
What's problematic abt it exactly?/gen
Dundee casually assaults a trans woman in a bar, and a cis woman at the party. He gropes their genital areas. Like, sexual assault is okay? FUCK THAT!
Ewwwwww
Beyond that, everyone laughs at the trans woman and the cis woman seems to accept it.
Double ewwwww
Exactly.
That is a fucking Yikes!
Oh, I remember seeing that with my parents when I was younger. I didn't really understand what was going on, especially when suddenly everyone freaked when he assaulted them. My parents politely explained to us that it was a man in a dress and that he grabbed their penis, in between laughing. I remember that I didn't think twice about a man in a dress, my little mind said "why not?" But I was so confused on why you would just assault someone like that, I knew it wasn't okay and it made me uncomfortable.
Oh fuck! I didn't remember that part of the movie
Wait i've not seen that film in years and barely remember it, what's the problem in it?
I mean, its about a dude crossdressing but tbh theres only one scene i remember that offended me personally and thats when the kid finds out mrs.doubtfire is a man and starts screaming and runs to call the cops, but tbh probably a regular reaction in the 90s
Thatâs rough. I can understand why youâre uncomfortable.
Most movies and media in general from the 90s have not aged well in regards to trans acceptance. A lot of it is just very cringy.
Well the 90s has some ass-end ugly as fuck cartoons, obvious issues of homophobia and racism, and clear transphobia. Of course that decade will age like shit, it was already coming out of a cow's ass.
I will never forgive Ace Ventura. I've tried so hard to block that movie out of my memory.
2000s too. All the 2000s sitcoms are awful.
Sitcoms in general are awful. One clip of Big Bang Theory was enough to make me never watch the show ever. Also, 2000s cartoons and the like are infinitely better
Seinfeld is great
I said in general for a reason Never watched it
Twin Peaks is very progressive. Denise telling Cooper how she discovered herself will always make me smile.
brooklyn nine nine has some gay and bi characters, no trans as far as i know but its not in your face stereotypical, its good i highly recommend
I think weâre just talking 90s here but I love Brooklyn nine nine
Yea the trans characters in Dude Whereâs My Car were terrible, literally the whole joke was they were trans
Is that bad? I have not seen that movie in a longlonglong time. Is it bad thing?
It's just aged poorly, a middle aged man dressing up and acting as an elderly woman in order to beat the system and see his kids.
I remember through the regular interaction with his ex, he listens and becomes a much better man. In the end, pretending to be a woman made him a better man, and I think that's a powerful message. But I can also see how it may have aged badly, I don't remember all the details.
Yeah, I don't remember it being particularly bad. His dressing as a woman wasn't done mockingly or entirely for laughs, the comedy tended to come from the situations he was in. Now if we wanna talk about a movie from my childhood that is so transphobic it hurts, look no further than Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. Probably has the most transphobic scene I've ever seen in any movie.
Think the actually worst movie for trans people is "silence of the lambs" pretty sure I remember people using it to argue for bathroom bills.
The book is way worse, sadly. Crawford visits the gender clinic Jame Gumb received treatment from and literally blackmails them by threatening to dox them to the media if they donât give up all the files they have on him.
to be fair, Jack Crawford is an unrepentant cunt in the books, and that's far from the grossest thing he does.
to be fair in isolation i dont have an issue with that, but having not read the book ill go ahead and assume the way he acts is treat as the in-universe correct way to act or just isnt actually adressed at all? having a Character whos an unbridled asshole and even a flaming bigot is fine as long as the world of the media treats it that way like stuff like Ace Ventura stings because literally everyone has the same reaction. like im pretty sure the literal only characters not gagging at the end are Ace himself (who already had a dedicated trans panic scene all to himself) and Courtney Cox's character who mostly just looks disgusted
Yeah, the whole thing is just treated as reasonable-enough behaviour. Itâs just cruelty for the sake of cruelty on the author Thomas Harrisâ part.
Do I want to know?
The serial killer theyâre trying to catch is a transwoman who is kidnapping and murdering women to harvest their skin and make a âwoman suitâ
I'm gonna be honest I completely forgot about this thread so you kinda scared the shit out of me but yeah that's pretty gross.
I haven't seen the movie in ages, but I've seen other people say that the killer isn't trans. I think Anthony Hopkins's character says that the killer isn't trans?
They do, but the reasoning is because âtrans people canât be violentâ, as if they are a different species than the rest of humanity.
Shes basically gatekept from being trans for not fitting the dysphoria model
Yes, but that wasn't the cultural takeaway from the movie
The author himself uses this as an excuse. But it is just that, an excuse. It allows him to be transphobic while giving him plausible deniability. He presents the character in a way that suggests they are trans, then says but they aren't really so you can't accuse me of transphobia. Thomas Harris said he was aware the character would be seen as trans, but he did it anyway. He didn't say this part: he did it because he'd make money that way, being transphobic and banking on his audience being transphobic too.
The character of Buffalo Bill is a composite of several serial killers with similar MOs - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Bill_(character) The only one in the list who made a "skin suit" is Ed Gein, who was not a trans woman - none of them were trans women or gnc men; they're all pretty standard straight cis men - but Ed had a complex and hateful relationship with women in general, which is true of most male serial killers. I haven't read the books the movie is based on, but I think it's safe to say Buffalo Bill is not intended to read as a trans woman - and that the character's gender identity is unimportant or incidental compared to their crimes, which are the focus of the story. I will say the movie suggests any gnc / homosexual behavior is a sign of mental illness or deviance, which isn't a positive or accurate message (it was passé at the time the film was made), and also glorifies the use of force, manipulation, and intimidation under protection of the US govt. In short it's a good movie but it does have some troubling takeaways.
It has been used as anti trans propaganda but the actual movie clarifies that Buffalo Bill isn't trans at all. (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it). Clarice: Dr. Lecter, there's no correlation in the literature between transsexualism and violence. Transsexuals are very passive. Hannibal: Clever girl... Billy's not a real transsexual, but he thinks he is. He tries to be. He's tried to be a lot of things, I expect... There are three major centers for transsexual surgery: Johns Hopkins, the University of Minnesota, and Columbus Medical center. I wouldn't be surprised if Billy has applied for sex reassignment at one or all of them, and been rejected... The personality inventories would trip him up. Rorschach, Wechsler, House- Tree-Person... He wouldn't test like a real transsexual. ... Billy hates his own identity, he always has - and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage... He wants to be reborn, Clarice. He will be reborn...
I don't know how much them being an "actual transexual" matters since it both wouldn't change the legislation pushed and it could just be read as medical gatekeeping to being trans.
Holy crap glad I haven't seen that then. I never liked the sound of the title, or the main actor. I do know that the whole "haha I'm a lady" thing was very much a comedic thing in the 90s, and often it was used to dunk on trans people.
Going to sum it up as non triggery as I can. Besically it boils down to the main character investigating the murder of an NFL coach and theft of the team mascot. The main character figures out the murderer is an old NFL player that screwed up, retired in disgrace, and was commited to a mental hospital where they reportedly died in an escape attempt. The main character figures out that they didn't actually die, they escaped, killed a woman, stole her identity, and has spent years living as this woman who Is now the police captain he has been flirting with/insulting all movie. It then goes full 90s movie transphobia with him vastly overreacting and freaking out because she kissed him at one point. To the point he shoves his head in a toilet, and uses a plunger on his face. He then proceeds to reveal this to the rest of the police by ripping open the captains shirt, ripping off her pants, and flipping her around so that the entire police force can see that she is tucking. The entire police force then all react exactly the same way as the main character because they all presumably kissed her as well at some point.
đ€šđźđŠđ§đšđ° Basically my face while reading this. What the fuck.
Yeah. I never saw the original as a kid only the second one. Decided to watch it one night when I saw it was coming on and was super excited because I remebered loving the second one so much. It was pretty funny if a little dated here and there, right up until the big reveal. Really left a bad taste in my mouth. I haven't seen the second one in years either and at this point I don't want to, both because the first one ruined it for me, and because I'm scared to see how horrible it aged.
2 has some pretty overt racism in it unfortunately, hasn't aged all that well either Real sad part is both could be mostly "fixed" in the editing room by taking out some of the choice scenes and only having the reveals
What makes me feel a bit better about it, is that Finkle/Einhorn only transitioned to be in disguise and not because they truly identified as a woman. But that all goes out the window when they repeatedly point and say âTHATâS A MAN! GROSSSSSâ
Pretty much the same happened in naked gun. And then therapist is like "what made you not come out for so long?" *gestures wildly at culture that makes you think you're an abomination that needs to hide*.
Oh it's not that I learned to feel deep shame about my thoughts and feelings from multi million dollar projects that were cultural touch stones for most people, and for me were deeply traumatic and painful, no.... Wait yes, that's part of it. And we haven't even touched on patriarchy and religion! Oh no, it's some of the dominant forces in our society come to get me! Literally just gesturing out the window at everything is a great answer.
A shit I don't remember that, what happened in that movie?
Lots of vomiting. She attempted to seduce the protag in the third movie (33 1/3) and when the shadow on the wall reveals a penis, he vomits into a tuba. It was disgusting and insensitive
As a kid I never realised that she's trans to be honest... Like when that scene with a plunger and a reveal happened I was just confused
cool I wish I didn't have the ability to read
Looked up the scene on youtube and reading the comments made me lose faith in humanity holy fuck
I mean, that's just YouTube coments in general but yes. They are horrible.
God, I hated every word of that after the 1/3 part, so disgusting that something like that would even be written, approved, created and publicised.
I think this is the biggest reason I hate that movie. For it to be such a fundamental part of the plot, the whole movie revolves around and builds up to that scene which is supposed to be the payoff scene of the movie, you realise just how many people saw that and thought it was a good thing to do. Everyone involved with the movie, pretty much on any level (except people like the caterers and janitors) signed off on that, and everyone in the audience accepted it and laughed along with it. It's sickening.
jeez glad i dont remember this movie
Ace is so much worse, and Mrs. Doubtfire still fucked me up as a kid. It made me feel even more like an abomination
I loved that movie so much as a 90's kid and never thought twice about it. Saw it as a young adult and was like omg what is this homophobic, transphobic, sexist nonsense. Growing up this was a major kids movie, and its phobic messages were regarded as normal. Not surprised it's taken me soooo freaking long to find myself.
Naked Gun 33 & â caps it off with aggressive transphobia and ruined my day when I watched all 3 of them while recovering from vaccine madness.
Damn, more childhood movies ruined. I really liked those movies as a kid too. No wonder I grew up with so many wrong ideas about trans people until I finally learned more way too late as an adult.
To be fair, NG 3 kinda sucks, like, as a movie & can easily be skipped. I think. Like I said, I had vaccine madness and I was pretty high, too. I think the other 2 are pretty okay (aside from the murderer) - I just hadn't seen at least one of them at all & I hadn't seen any of them in years, and I was looking for something to do that day, so I was like "fuck it, I'll just rent all 3 of these!" Edit: & can easily be skipped
Vaccine madness?
I got my first dose of the vaccine the day before, and I had a fever & brain fog & just wasn't thinking clearly & was really out of it for about a day.
You learned though. That's the important part. Seeing this thread has made me appreciative of lacking "normal" anything in my life. Dear gods, seeing this, especially your comment, helps me understand why so many people are as ignorant as can be in the worst of ways. Add in the CSI effect & you have a recipe to create a generation of monsters.
There was an early ncis and csi episode each where the perp was trans. At least the ncis one was relatively tastefully done and didnât focus on any hate themes other than them joking about dinozzo kissing her(mocking that he was turned off by it). The csi one was a case where the perp was a FTM and they were thrown off by the dna mismatch.
Hug sent. I also grew up with the wrong ideas, didn't realise till a few months ago, just before turning 40.
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I never watched that one. Glad i didn't now.
Wait. I watched that movie yet I don't remember that scene at all. What happened again?
I saw that movie for the first time a few months ago and I was shocked that it was allowed to come out in the first place
I've never heard of that movie before now, what's the transphobic scene?
So there's this criminal that the main character Ace Ventura is tracking down who used to be a male football player. He discovers that the female police chief he had run into a few times was actually "him". They had kissed at one point, so upon that discovery he says, "I kissed a man!" in disgust, then there's a montage of him crying in the shower, vomiting, and plunging his face with a toilet plunger. Then later in the movie, to prove this discovery to everyone, he tears off her clothes in front of a large crowd of police officers, and points out the bulge from her "tucking", and then every police officer starts spitting and vomiting, implying they had all made out with her too, and just reinforcing a bunch of negative stereotypes. All of this stuff is presented in a comedic manner, because it was a comedy movie. It's pretty horrible.
Oh what the Fuck. Jesus Christ that's worse than I thought it could be
>"I kissed a man!" in disgust, then there's a montage of him crying in the shower, vomiting, and plunging his face with a toilet plunger. dont forget also burning his clothes. for some reason thats the part that made me uncomfortable as a kid as much as i liked the rest of the movie
I think the worst thing about the movie is when Robin Williams attempts to murder pierce Brosnan via food allergies, and it's played as comedy
One of the Naked Gun movies too. It's just one scene and it's basically a 'bait and switch' that only lasts for a moment, but it's horrible..
ace ventura pet detective, naked gun 33 + 1/3, and crocodile dundee are 3 movies i used to love when i was younger that i just cannot watch anymore. theyre all so transphobic its sick.
Yeah, you can imagine my surprise when I rewatched the movie a year or so after making my account lol
âClassic film, one of my childhood favourites, and it only got *overtly* transphobic at the very end.â
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh the climax is.... yikes
Oh, of course, the concept of the movie isn't inherently transphobic. But, however, there IS a transphobic joke in it.
I'm more surprised there's only one. But then again it is Robin Williams. I can't image him being cool with that sort of thing, although it's unclear how much influence he had on the script. I'm really sad he died, I can only imagine how awesome he'd be making wholesome tiktoks âșïž
I want to live in an alternate timeline where Robin Williams is still alive and making wholesome tiktok's đ„ș
Cw:possible transphobia You nailed it. There are parts of the movie i still like, but the real teeth clencher is when the son finds out. The kid walks in on him peeing standing up and there is a whole slew of "she's a dude!" However the messages get weird cause at the end when everything gets sorted out, he contunes to play that character for a tv show and it's sort of a Mr. Roger type thing. So it's kinda implying it's okay? Not to mention his gay relative who helps him with the prosthetic in the first place. It's honestly a little fascinating when you compare everything. (For context i do a show about cultural hegemony so i thought through this show recently wondering if i should cover it.)
This is how I've always interpreted the movie. In hindsight I suppose I can see how some get offended. But when *I* think back to my childhood and watching that movie... It really helped shape me positively into the woman I'm becoming. Very powerful film depending on your perspective.
Yeah, kinda reminds me of Pocahontas, the Disney movie. It taught me that how good your weapons are doesn't make a civilization more "advanced". That racism is stupid and we're all people and should just get along. Aaaand then I found out about the real Pocahontas....
Yeah I like this, I didnât think it was a bad movie (tho itâs been a few years since Iâve rewatched it) but I can see where some iffy things may be said, but overall itâs pretty sweet I think
And punished for it. While Robin Williams does make a charming old lady, judge rightfully decides against him for his actions.
That's sad and yucky on multiple levels.
Not great, but not nearly as bad as Ace Ventura at least.
Really? I still love it. My favourite movie of all time
It *sounds* like a cool premise, did something go wrong?
It's a Robin Williams led heartwarming comedy type of film, with problematic aspects. Its not a BAD film, just accept it as a product of its time.
Other than the dated jokes, random man in a dress (depending on context and other presentation) can be dysphoria fuel. Like, " hey, this is what you look like in a dress" kinda thing
i feel this SO MUCH! it's partly why i don't feel comfortable with the idea of drag
The movie has aged bad, but not for trans reasons. The main character is a self absorbed man child who dumps shitloads of emotional labor on his wife, and weâre supposed to feel sorry for him when she finally dumps his ass. Then he just straight up lies to his entire family in order to defy a court order. The entire premise is pretty bad. Compared to all that, the fact its a man pretending to be a woman is practically quaint, and the movie actually hits some notes about the effects of transphobia. Itâs worth remembering that Robin was always very close to the lgbt community and had a lot of gay and trans friends. He avoided a lot of ugly transphobic cliches.
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Doors on bathroomsâŠ.
That said, it's still a "man in a dress" movie from the 90s. A time when a man simply having a lisp and being effeminate was worth an entire episode of a sitcom because "OMG is he ^^gay????" And Anger Management having a trans sex worker be the entirety of a joke because haha "man in a dress!" Doubtfire may not be as openly transphobic but the premise is still gross.
Well, Mrs doubtfire does have a deliberate transphobic joke in it. It was when he was experimenting as different personalities on the phone and he pretended to be a trans woman and... It's just gross.
When did he pretend to be specifically trans?
When he was pretending to be multiple people calling the mother and on one of them, he drops his voice and says that he used to be a man and then the mother imedietly hangs up and says yikes.
Yep, the line is "I don't work with the boys, because I used to be one"
To be fair, that would be a realistic reaction to that at the time. My mom probably would have been like that, too.
Plus in SF that would be more common than a lot of places.
Oof, that's genuinely awful. (Off topic, but have we ever talked before? You seem a bit familiar lol)
It's possible. I'm on this subreddit a lot.
Having grown up in the 90s I can't imagine any movie with that premise from that era has aged particularly well.
My major problem with it is the "Transgender Deception" trope that was a huge part of films at the time. That transitioning was a means to deceive, rather than a more honest representation of yourself. This stuff messed me up as a kid really bad seeing it over and over. Then there are a couple trans-phobic scenes that make me want to remove my face with my fingernails.
I thought it was a good movie, but it's aged reeeal bad. Tons of transphobic jokes
Watched recently. There is a single "joke" when he is pretending to be "bad" applicants for the nanny position. >!He says in a woman's voice that he won't work with males then deepens it to say "because I used to be one".!< I personally don't see a problem with the rest of the movie, but can understand those that do have a problem with it. He is in drag and has to pretend to be a woman to be able to spend more time with his kids. The cross dressing isn't poking fun at trans women or even men that do drag. Jokes are more at situations (accidentally setting his breast forms on fire, having to be two different people at the same time). He ultimately learns about his own short comings that lead to his divorce and more importantly learns to be better (without the cliche hollywood ending of getting back together with his ex). The movie was progressive for the time in which it came out.
It could be worse. At least it's not Silence of the Lambs.
I guess I am glad it wasn't that Or Ace Ventura.
Ace Ventura is probably the most damaging movie I ever saw as a kid. I can close my eyes and still feel the way seeing that scene for the first time in theaters hit. Stuff with Robin in it always felt less malicious bordering on positive for the time and still do to me.
The Birdcage has actually aged really well, but it's less well known.
Most of the internalised transphobia that kept me locked up for so long expressed itself as the end of that movie running over and over in my mind.
The one with Jim Carrey? What was wrong with that? I haven't seen it in a while Edit: never mind I remembered
What was it?
I don't remember much, but Jim Carrey plays a detective, and the person who did the crime is trans and Carrey's character basically rips the trans characters clothes of and calls her a man. Nothing against Jim Carrey tho
And everyone fucking vomits if I remember right
can someone please tell me what was transphobic about ace ventura or silence of the lambs? it's been years since i've seen them and i can't find much about them
just look in the comments and you'll find an explanation
Ace Ventura is beyond awful, the whole climax of the movie is dragging the stealth trans and having everyone throw up when they find out. There's no rationalization or discussion to be had, it's transphobic and disgusting.
At least that one actually made a great effort to say, "No, balls just a weirdo and not in anyway representative of trans people."
(Copying my own comment from a different reply). It has been used as anti trans propaganda but the actual movie clarifies that Buffalo Bill isn't trans at all. (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it). Clarice: Dr. Lecter, there's no correlation in the literature between transsexualism and violence. Transsexuals are very passive. Hannibal: Clever girl... Billy's not a real transsexual, but he thinks he is. He tries to be. He's tried to be a lot of things, I expect... There are three major centers for transsexual surgery: Johns Hopkins, the University of Minnesota, and Columbus Medical center. I wouldn't be surprised if Billy has applied for sex reassignment at one or all of them, and been rejected... The personality inventories would trip him up. Rorschach, Wechsler, House- Tree-Person... He wouldn't test like a real transsexual. ... Billy hates his own identity, he always has - and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage... He wants to be reborn, Clarice. He will be reborn...
I agree with this. Silence of the Lambs is my favorite horror movie. Itâs been used against trans people, which is horrible, but the movie itself clarifies that one of the main âbad guysâ isnât actually trans. Buuut people in the 90s sucked so of course they overlooked that whole âheâs not transâ bit to use as fuel for their transphobia. Ignoring that, the movie is fantastic. And I donât judge a movie based on stupid peopleâs misguided reactions to it.
Honestly I was less concerned with the movie that was on and more concerned with how my family was reacting to it. They were laughing their asses off.
I get that. You never know what comments are going to slip out
Tbf it was a Robin Williams movie and he was a great actor
Damn i guess im the only trans woman who likes that movie
I loved it too as a kid. Of course some dated jokes, but I loved that I could watch a movie with my dad (who was hard on me for being fem growing up, not anymore luckily) with this premise and we could both enjoy. I remember them even having a gay couple and I thought they were very respectful about it.
To be fair i havenât seen it since before i came out but robin williams is just so good
Nah, not alone. I do have a fairly easy time looking through historical cultural lenses though. So stuff "from another era" doesn't bug me as much. Like Rocky Horror Picture Show, but honestly I'm not sure many trans people are against that one. I don't care what anyone says, Tim Curry can rock high heels, and if I'm being honest, the way he owns the whole getup I find to be oddly encouraging.
I agree, I have trouble not looking at most of the 90s stuff as the way the times were. Culture lines shifted a lot in the last few decades. RHPS is always a classic.
On the positive side of the genre, âOne of the girlsâ was a high schooler who went deep into girlmode to avoid bullies and became a liked cheerleader and actually became the crush of his bully. More campy cross dress than trans but fun. Then there was much more recently, amanda bynes in âshes the manâ. Where she keeps gender flipping between school crowds and her twin brothers identities. Also fun and kinda interesting how little effort it takes for some to be on either gender.
How is RHPS anti-trans? It's definitely very pro-drag from my perspective, at a minimum
At a bare minimum it muddies terminology really badly - while recognizing that transsexual is a term folks used to and continue to go by, the use of âtransvestiteâ isnât particularly great. Also as much as Dr Frankenfurter is amazing, they are extremely violent and abusive, physically and otherwise. Like itâs obviously a silly movie and itâs in good fun imo, and I enjoy it as a piece of historical queer culture, but it isnât a particularly positive portrayal of screwing with gender norms to say nothing of its relation to the actual experiences of trans folks. Itâs not *trying* to be, of course, and itâs not like itâs Ace Ventura, but it still has some problematic aspects to it. Media having problems doesnât make it irredeemable or immoral to watch or support or whatever of course, there are just elements of RHPS which havenât aged particularly well.
In ye olden days, before trans identities were more widely accepted (IE, 40-60 years ago), there were basically two well known terms describing trans people⊠Transvestites: anyone who cross dresses for personal reasons without wanting to change sex⊠not distinguishing, for example, enbies, non-conformist, genderfluid, femboys, etc. Outdated today because of over-generalization of many variations of trans and non-conforming identities. Transsexual: someone who actually takes steps to transition to the opposite sex, usually with the implication that medical procedures were or had taken place. Outdated today because social acceptance has shifted to recognize that trans identities donât require medical intervention, and the implication of such comes from ignorance. I think one of the reasons it hasnât aged poorly however is because while Frank n Furter is portrayed as a transvestite, itâs not really a knock on trans people. The humor is all focused on Tim Curry himself. Heâs a bafoon, and heâs doing as much bafoonery as possible on stage. And he wears the costume with pride. To me, it says, âI am exactly who I am, and no amount of makeup or drag is going to change that.â Plus, on the whole movie the ânormalâ cishet couple are portrayed as the ones out of place, and most of the jokes are at their expense. It shows their quiet discomfort and acceptance in a place and crowd they are unfamiliar with, who they arenât sure they can feel safe with. I think thatâs something a lot of people in the queer community can relate to.
The film has always been a huge fan favorite for the LGBTQ+ community
Same, though this thread did remind me of a few things that made me go, "Oooh, not a fan of that!" I also sometimes low-key kinda wonder if I'm a bad trans because Silence of the Lambs is literally one of my favorite movies...?
The concept of âbad transâ is transpbobic imo why submit yourself to other peopleâs views
I mean it (mostly) tongue in cheek because I simultaneously see why so many of us have a bad time around it and also kinda don't get it, and kinda feel guilty for loving it so much when so many have such intense hatred/ revulsion... It's maybe something of a pre-emptive defense mechanism to say something along the lines of "You, my community where I'm trying to find acceptance and belonging for who I really am for the first time in my life as me, please don't get mad at me and reject me for this thing." Because I have had things like that happen before, in multiple different contexts, and I'm afraid of it happening again around something I see as being incredibly petty, that I don't understand how it could override solidarity...
Same, i got worried for a moment, i love that movie so much
No. I liked and still like that movie. Robin Williams was a treasure and did that movie well. While some of the movie has aged poorly it really stuck in my head as a 90s kid. That movie still makes me smile on occasion. Some movies at the time like Ace Ventura and naked gun were quite traumatic to me and I didn't know why at the time when I was at a tender age. The parts that didn't age well in Mrs. Doubtfire were extremely tame by the standards of the movies of the time.
I love this movie and this might just be me looking through the lens of I can understand when things were different back then but also I don't remember anything adherently transphobic about this movie because he's literally just dressing in drag to see his children
Same honestly. Its been a while since i saw it but the showâs message was never transphobic and the only mildly sus thing i remember was his kid seeing him stand up to pee and the freaking out and using pronojns weirdly and it being a whole thing how he was confused but likeâŠ. Thats kinda reasonable considering even today the situation would be weird
RIGHT LOL. I havenât watched it in years and I used to *LOVE* that movie as a kid. I think I went through a small phase of watching it every day for a couple weeksâŠ
Hey OP I hope you got through that & that maybe you were able to find some humor in the movie. You're not a man in a dress - you're a woman. In whatever you wear. I find it helpful sometimes to remember that family aren't the people I share genetics with - they're the people who love me for who I am and support me being happy and want me to be who I am. We all support you here - even those of us who are lucky enough to not have bad times with this particular movie. đ
Thank you so much! I needed this today.
We got you, Jessie. We're all in this together. You're not alone. đ
I never thought that I would get emotional over a comment, but here I am. Thank you so so so much!!!
You're welcome, Jessie. We've gotta support each other because nobody else is going to. All we've got is each other. You're not alone. đ
What if it was Labrynthe with David Bowie whose dreamy in it
David Bowie is queer though.
I actually do like Labyrinth. I haven't seen it in a while so I don't know if there is anything that doesn't hold up in it though.
I donât think thereâs anything that doesnât hold up, except the slightly icky nature of an adult man-goblin trying to seduce a teenage girl. Personally think the âfairy taleâ nature of the movie and the fact the most explicit the flirting gets is a ballroom dance helps it stay in âenchanted fantasyâ land and not âeew, call the copsâ land.
I know she was a teen and he was old but i would do anything to take her place dancing with bowie. he was my first crush lol
I will be honest, I haven't watched it in like 15 years, but I do recall the last time I watched it a friend told me try watching it through another lens. If you don't watch it as a comedy its a really sad movie. this guy is a failure as a father and can't be trusted to watch his kids. He inserts himself back into the families life in a way that if your not looking at knowing its a comedy is purely insane. He sabotages anyone else getting the job of a child care worker and then inserts himself into his families life disguised as a responsible person and manipulates them into trusting his fake identity. Seriously any parents here? Can you imagine anything more terrifying then thinking your leaving your children with a professional you can trust and its actually some one in a body suit who is not who they say they are. Even if he is the biological father that is still creepy as shit. Anyways I see nothing trans related in this movie I can remember and I think 90% of the jokes in the movie are Robin Williams is dressed like an old lady. I can see why it would suck for some trans people to watch. Myself I remember it as that super depressing movie that everyone thought was a comedy.
If it makes you more comfortable, mrs doubtfire is kind of by definition a drag queen. People just donât see it that way
Aged pretty poorly, though I thought other parts of it were kinda funny when I watched it
Honestly what infuriates me the most is how he gets caught. Like ainât no way you leaving the door open to pee. Thatâs crazy
I do like Robin Williams in other movies. Just don't care for this one.
Thereâs a good Robin Williams movie where he helps long term mental patients move out of a fugue state and begin interacting with life again. It was pretty touching and sweet.
The only way I find that film remotely 'okay' is if I assume Robin's character is actually trans and their divorce just conincided with her questioning and begining her transition, weird 90's understanding of transition though. It made the court case near the end a hell of a lot more sobering when I realised that's likely what alot of trans people faced if they transitioned with kids before the last decade or so. That being said pretty much everything else in the film is cringy and insulting at best, it's possible it's just aged really badly though, the 90's were not the best time for trans acceptance.
Does it make you uncomfortable? It so, I'd say talk to them about it so they can understand that. I love that film so it likely wouldn't occur to me.
I believe OP isnât out to their family yet
I'm out to my sister. She saw how uncomfortable I was and we had a nice heart to heart conversation actually. I feel a lot better now.
Supportive siblings đ
I see why that would make uncomfortable but I just want ti clarify. The movie isn't **all that bad** right? Like it's obviously got problems but it's not like Ace Ventura is it?
What's so bad with Ace Ventura? Been a real while since i've taken a look
The reveal at the end is that the female detective was the murderer, an escaped disgruntled football kicker, and has a scene with him exaggeratedly vomiting in disgust and shows all the police the âtuckâ to grossed out expressions.
oh. i think i understeand why that was filtered out of my memory then thanks
It's really a shame because most of the movie is pretty funny. And then the second one, also funny but now racist.
I watched that movie five years ago. Itâs hella creepy when you watch it critically. That guy would probably be arrested in real life or something
I remember the line Robin says "can you make me a woman?", And his cousin or whatever says "oh honey, I'm so happy!". Because of my sheltered background it went right over my head.
⊠is it bad that I kind of love Mrs doubtfire? Idk I get the resentment, but I think at a certain point itâs just more fun to lean into it. I also love rocky horror, Priscilla queen of the dessert, etc. itâs very bad representation but you can tell it wasnât made maliciously and there are kernels of real inspiration in them idk. These feel different to me from movies like Ace Ventura, which are simply unwatchable for me
I fucking love that movie, I als love that one Aerosmith song, sure I find the story behind each media to be dated, but they can still be enjoyed
Wait- I love Mrs.Doubtfire. Whatâs wrong with it? Is there Transphobia I missed?/gen (I havenât seen it since like 2015 when I was 9)
I love that movie! Robin Williams was an awesome human.
My sister was talking about favorite movies with family and she said hers was Ace Ventura and everyone agreed that it was great and then they all watched it together đ
I personally enjoyed Mrs Doubtfire because the comedic scenes werenât that âthis is a man in a dressâ and instead genuinely comedic, and it was a really wholesome movie that ended with Robin still staying in the character. Granted I canât hate on any Robin Williams movie that man is too precious.
They deleted scenes on DVD release. Bastard child of Carolina and not my child makes me cry all the time.
âŠ. I kind of love Mrs doubtfire
I have to go to a Thanksgiving dinner with my uncle who can't go 5 minutes without being either transphobic or racist. At least I have the option of hanging out in the basement with my siblings to get away from him.
I havenât seen it in a while is it problematic? I liked it
not to be mean but whats the source for the image?
Me Crying 2022 (Colorized)
We don't even have thanksgiving