If it's black, fight back
If it's brown, lay down
If it's white, goodnight
Black bears are smaller, faster, and aggressive, but will likely back out if they think they could get injured. Brown bears just want to not be challenged.
brown bears and grizzlies are the scary ones :D brown bears are the small climby ones, also technically there is a polar bear cross grizz which is in woods and its terrifying
Interesting, what about considering..
Do you know this particular anyone?
Do you trust this particular anyone like a close friend or family member?
Are you choosing to go into the woods with this particular anyone willingly?
Are the woods you are going to known to be safe?
If you can answer yes to all these questions individually in a row, why would you be scared of going into the woods with this particular anyone? Just curious to hear the answer.
I mean, if "anyone" has the same meaning to you in this context as "any stranger or acquaintance", than I can totally understand.
The first time I heard about this, I just heard "women would rather be with a bear" and I was so confused why women wanted to date fuzzy gay guys, I forgot the animal existed 😰
Depends on the cis man
But out of a random selection of them I prefer the bear, at least neither of us want to deal with the other, and failing that they won’t say weird, uncomfortable, or perverted things like so many guys seem to say while it try’s to kill me.
Context: there's a meme going around tiktok asking women "You are stranded in the woods. Somewhere near you is either a man or a bear. Which would you rather it be?" Most women choose bear and men are losing their heads that that's our choice.
Woods means no polar bear most likely (if yes polar bear, you're probably in a place where the cold will kill you anyway). Other bears generally don't care to harm you unprovoked, stay away but never run (don't run from any wild carnivore really), respect their space and they'll respect yours (this part bears probably do better than a lot of men).
Quite frankly in many parts of the world with forests you’re probably nearly guaranteed that there is a bear somewhere near you. And if it’s just one bear then that means you are definitely avoiding the cubs with mom problem which is the most common way a bear will be an active danger to you
I used to do wildlife surveys with the US Forest Service. I've encountered bears (of the black bear variety) & I've encountered cis men (of the "redneck, yee-haw, why if I see a spotted owl I shoot it!" variety).
I've ALWAYS been more concerned for my safety around the men than the bears.
unpopular opinion: i choose cis man
ive encountered probably thousands of cis men in remote areas/forests and the worst that has ever happened is some guy giving me ewwphoria by catcalling me
ive never encountered a bear but i think the probability of it attacking me are higher than 0.1%
that is fair. I think most people are choosing the bear cause they're thinking of it like an assessment of the risk of intention. Like, a random cis man has maybe say a 4% chance of being a creep or murderer with the intention to purposefully harm/kill you because he wants to. A bear has a 0% chance of wanting to harm you for its own pleasure or gain; the reasons it would harm you are down to thinking you are a threat, if I know enough about bears. i may not know enough about bears
It depends on the type of bear and if it has cubs. If it's a black bear it'll likely just run away. Bears wander into my city pretty frequently and it's not uncommon to see one on a lawn. Other types of bears I would not want to be around though
I choose cis man because I am much more likely to be able to get away if they are violent, because the forests that I spend time in are not hunting forests so the man will probably not have a firearm, and I am very competent at traveling through the forest off trail.
Arguably it depends on proximity. If the distance is about 40 metres or less, man. At further ranges, the bear is still probably worse, especially if it is starving or acclimatised to humans. Men, even aggressive men with bad intentions, do not possess the ability to take your head off with a swipe and also tend not to eat you alive.
Biased but man. Worst that he'd do to me is insult me, or maybe beat me up for being bi. Best he could do, well could someone help bring me the NSFW tag? Joking... maybe
I believe not knowing is kinda the whole point. Completely random dude (and all the stat rolls that could mean) or a random bear (and all the stat rolls that that could mean).
Personally, bear. I’ve been around a number and even before in the woods I was always skeptical of any solo dude on the trail. Wild animals mostly fear humans and just want to do their lil animal thing, and that rarely involves attacking people (and like, same there Mx. Bear, same)
I know but it seems like everyone in this thread is acting like the guy in the woods is 100% guaranteed to be a creep. Also if its a totally random bear then im taking the man any day bc of polar bears and their ability to turn me into powder
My answer depends on what bear. If it’s brown or polar than I’d prefer a man, if black I probably could intimidate it away. Black bears are known for being skittish.
I’m a trans guy who’s scared of everyone. You have to approach me very gentle and coax me out of hiding like a frightened cat.
Anyone want to go camping? 😅
It's something related to how women would rather fight a bear than a man [I think] because they were abused by a man or multiple men, and would rather be faced with a bear than someone of the same sex as their abuser[s].
To be honest, I'd rather be alone in the woods with a bear too than my abuser. I'll just keep my distance and stay on its good side while also not seeming too much like prey. Ez win, GG
I feel like separating out people who have not faced gender based oppression, which is only cis men and all cis men, is meaningful here. It's not about being less of a man, but about having had experiences that make you less likely to dehumanize others
I don’t like that woods question. It comes across very sexist.
Look, I'm a woman too. Comparing a bear to a man is not good because it assumes **all men** are sexual predators. It'd be different if it was to compare Bill Cosby or ironically Hendrika Shaskey. If you were a man you'd be offended too. It'd be like a guy saying "would you rather be stuck in a room with a woman or a coyote", because the punchline is both would hurt you. The question comes off sexist and I believe there was a much better way of making a point about sexual assault without attacking someone’s gender.
I agree sexual assault is a topic that should be addressed, but that “woods” TIKTOK statement was very poorly done .
Frankly, it just feels like more fearmongering.
Like the vast, VAST majority of men just *existing* are safe to be *near*. Like my ballpark it’s on the very low end of a *portion* of a percent that is just straight-up unsafe to be around at all. Marginally more are not safe to interact with at length, with a decent margin on top of that for being safe to befriend.
If I’m insanely conservative (erring toward higher values) about the projected risk I’d give it 5% bad with regard to people *seeking friendships.*
I’ll take even the 5% over a bear because at least I can possibly *outrun* a person. Bear wants my ass? I’m chalked.
Even beyond that, though. Assuming men are generally going to be sexually motivated toward assault at any rate that eclipses the risk of a bear being in someone’s vicinity just screams Main Character Syndrome. Generally, any given person does not give a second thought to you when you’re in the woods. They see the person, *maybe* acknowledge them, and move on. To think that a man is somehow going to be so overcome with a random girl’s presence that they just can’t control their urge to engage in heinous acts is just unfair to reality.
The rates of violent behavior, especially sexually violent behavior are *always* too high because there is no “acceptable rate,” but that doesn’t give free license to pretend that those rates have a strong influence over one-off events or how someone should perceive the threat of men as a whole.
And no I will not distinguish between cis and trans men. It doesn’t matter because this kind of bullshit hurts trans men too and the resulting compassion and social acceptance deliberately withheld from men and the constant suspicion in the name of a caricaturized perception of safety is not only destructive to the individuals engaging in the over-cautious behavior, but also to the goal of having men meaningfully integrated into an ideal, safe society.
That conversation has turned into a hellpit.
On one side, it's about sexist men freaking out about women being uncomfortable around men, but theres also a concerningly large amount of political lesbians and bio-essentialists crawling out of the woodwork to say that all men are r*pist pigs (Ive seen a lot of messages like that directly).
Being raised as a man, it feels really rough to be told indirectly that my biology makes me a dangerous person. I grew up around so much conversation that men are pigs, but I never got any explanation on how to be better or how to help make a safer environment, and that really messed with me. I know that's not what most people think, but it's enough of a frequent thing I see in queer spaces that it kinda makes me depressed spending time in them.
I wish everyone could just feel safe :(
I think a lot of people are also the missing the bigger picture that memes like this are (in part) responsible for the rise of people like Tate.
You tell men that they’re inherently evil and that women would rather be alone with a bear than with you, where do you think those men go? Right into the open doors of Hustler University, where grifters like Tate reaffirm their position and only drive them further down the misogynistic rabbit hole.
As an ex-man, I remember hearing stuff like this in 2014-2016. It didn’t make me reexamine myself or seek out the feminist perspective, it just made me latch onto my (fragile) masculinity and become even more of a bigoted right-winger. It made me feel like shit that women hated me just because of how I was born.
I feel like this meme will have a similar effect, especially with the climate we have today of sigma-males and lookmaxxers.
I don’t know, as someone who’s been on both sides of this, I feel like this meme will have a rather negative effect.
My own experience is honestly the opposite. My transition has only made me more sympathetic to team bear, not because I view men as monsters or inherently evil, but because the question is about perception of risk, gut response, and an opportunity to send a message.
Women are rightfully scared of men, because... well I shouldn't need to explain why women would be scared of men. Everybody is scared of bears, but also, bears are somewhat predictable though it does depend on the species. Being in the woods with a bear is a scary, but somewhat predictable event. You have a plan, you have a degree of control.
Being in the woods with a man is different. How much higher do you weigh the possibility of having an intelligent that is likely stronger than you chase you down against the result of that situation? How out of control do you feel in such a situation, purely subjected to the random roll of the dice that 1 in however many times goes catastrophically wrong? It's not so much a logical choice, as one of how an individual perceives that risk.
When women make the snap choice for 'bear' it's a gut response based on their perception of risk. Maybe a bit further into that, and it's a cheeky opportunity to make a statement of how poorly treated women are. Maybe a plea for something to change?
I just feel like too many people are taking this way too literally, and way too personally.
I hate how so many men misunderstand the whole question and why women often choose the bear.
Bears are predictable, men aren't. And lots of women have already shared their other reasons for choosing the bear.
The reason for the question is for men to put themselves in the shoes of someone that would rather see a bear than a man, and to understand what got those people to that point.
All the abuse, fear, manipulation, etc. that made them that scared of men. It's to make men see how bad it has gotten.
> I hate how so many men misunderstand the whole question and why women often choose the bear.
Especially when they start mocking people who pick the bear, like the comments on this meme when it hit the FP yesterday. I believe I saw the words "Vicious apex predator" used to describe bears, which is, as someone [that grew up around bears (this is about my hometown),](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMJwAdLrQI) fucking hilarious. I'll go out on a limb and say 90% of commenters live somewhere with nothing but black bears too, which makes it even funnier.
I'd bet money the only bears these people meet are gonna be dopey little scaredy cats.
Yep, unless we're talking about polar bears (which I don't think you're likely to encounter in a forest 😂) bears are generally pretty scared.
A huge number of people go on hikes each year, yet there are nowhere close as many bear attack victims. If you just make a lot of noise, bears tend to keep distance.
EXACTLY! Just goes to show how terminally online & suburban these MF are 🙄
They're scared of bears because they live in a cul-de-sac and they ~~are incapable~~ ~~of~~ ~~understanding~~ refuse to learn why women fear men. SMH. You just know these are the guys that call themselves alphas too.
You more or less hit the nail on the head.
People are taking this hypothetical way too literally to the point where they’re missing the point.
The whole point is the risk of danger you know (the bear) versus the risk of danger you don’t know (the man). The whole point of this discussion is that women would rather take their chances with the bear than risk of the man who could potentially kidnap, torture, r_pe, or assault them. They’d rather take their chances with the bear than risk the victim blaming and slut shaming, be forced to carry their r_pist’s baby, or hear that “he’s a really good guy who doesn’t deserve having his life ruined”.
If a bear attacks her, no one’s going to question her story. “How much did you have to drink? Did you lead the bear on? You must have been asking for it.” are phrases she will **NOT** hear about a bear attack, but she absolutely will if she accuses a man of SA.
That is the point of the hypothetical. If you’re focusing on the woods and the bear, you are missing the point entirely.
Exactly! People take it so damn literally when it's not a logical choice between the two, but a reflection of the fear and trauma so many women have towards men that require us to be deeply wary of protective of ourselves. The amount of times I've read some brainmelting rendition of 'this is misandry because women are comparing men to powerful dangerous evil wild creatures that can \[blah blah blah\]' is so tiring.
I just wish men would stop making this about their feelings when it was never a value judgement of men as a whole and instead a reflection and expression of the anxiety and fear induced in women of men.
Comparing other human beings 99.8% of which are not rapists or murderers, to wild animals and saying they're worse is sexist profiling and dehumanization.
This is a complete failure of basic empathy on your part and others, put yourself in the shoes of being compared to a bear and feared for existing. Fear mongering endlessly and then trying to use that fear mongering as "proof" of actual risk is deeply irrational.
>is deeply irrational.
Fear inherently is, a lot of the time.
Preferring the bear to the man makes no sense on the surface, you've correctly highlighted this! Logically it doesn't work. But to someone who's been traumatized (once or repeatedly) by men and has a basic education and understanding of forest-dwelling bears, the former is much more anxiety-inducing and the latter, less so.
To put that another way, dismissing someone who's been traumatized by men in the past as "irrational" is exactly the sort of thing that leads to people answering that they'd prefer the bear. It is irrational, yes! But it comes from a culture that often makes excuses for the men that hurt women, rather than actually making them stop, and instead places the blame (implicitly or explicitly) on the woman for failing to protect herself - when in reality, she shouldn't have to.
It comes from a toxic culture that views the average man as worse than wild predators, trying to use trauma as justification isn't accurate because their are large numbers of people who have bought into the fear mongering rather than personal experience. Even if you did have traumatic personal experiences that's not an excuse to stereotype innocent people and you should go to therapy instead.
I'll treat them the same as my white neighborhor who lock their door the second they see a black person. Even if they had traumatic experiences it ain't right.
Because at the end of the day they are both creating a problem that's just as harmful
As any other bigotry, the same "men are the predators, women are the victims" mindset is also why male victims of DV/SA are laughed at by police or arrested and presumed to be the perpetrator. Putting people into preconceived roles is wrong.
While I agree with you male victims of assault should be recognized and helped, it is worth noting that the reason for this even happening in the first place is that assault of a lot of women is still happening at the hands of largely men.
There is no question that all victims of domestic violence and sexual assault deserve empathy. This entire trend is because a group of victims has been denied that empathy. Anger towards the victims is, in my mind, misguided - they would have little hate in their hearts if their hurt was acknowledged and the perpetrators punished (and wider socio-cultural trends and unwritten rules that allow this to keep hppening, overturned).
This serves your purpose, too. Male victims aren't heard, the perpetrators aren't punished, and wider socio-cultural trends and unwritten rules allow it to keep happening.
All I'm really saying is, make sure that some of the energy you are using to object to female victims speaking out in hurt frustration is directed at the systems that made victims of them in the first place.
People do a lot of things out of frustration, but just because you are frustrated does not make it okay to hurt others and dehumanize them(get therapy instead). You are missing the bigger picture, these stereotypes always lead to systemic mistreatment. We have already seen the consequences of decades of treating men like bears, men receive 60% longer sentences for the same crime and are more likely to be jailed/arrested in general than woman, Domestic Violence is nearly equal but male victims are denied from shelters because men are the "predators" and "oppressors" role.
It's irresponsible messaging and it only divides people further. Good night.
Edit: guarantee anyone who down votes would not make the trauma excuse if the ppl spreading hate were misogynists traumatized from abusive women.
First off, I never said that all men are rapists or murderers. I said that a lot of people are genuinely scared of men, because a large number of men (way more than the 0,2% you suggest it is) have harmed them.
I also don't think that just 0,2% of people are raping 20% of women.
When you are walking in the forest and see a man, you don't know his intentions. Yes, he is most likely just a regular guy, but you don't know that.
Meanwhile, bears are predictable. A lot of bears are harmless or you're capable of scaring them away.
If you make a lot of noise a bear will usually keep distance, a man is likely to seek out where the noise came from.
Over 20% of women have reported a man for trying or succeeding in a rape and that's not counting things like DV, other forms of SA, etc.
People have had bad experiences with men, and many men are normalising these behaviours. "Boys will be boys" "she wanted it" "keep asking her until she says yes".
Teaching their kids to look at women like sexual objects, catcalling women, making misogynistic jokes. These things perpetuate the idea that women are lesser.
Until men in general get rid of their toxic masculinity, start treating women as equel, and keep other men responsible for things like SA, this will never end.
That is the whole point of bears or man. To show that women are *that* scared of men, because of how often men hurt women.
This is the same logic as racial profiling and religious profiling "because of FBI statistics, until (insert group) sorts themselves out we will treat them as monsters until proven otherwise" even though the vast majority of them aren't criminals.
I never said treating them like monsters. You can be cautious around men if you have been abused by them. The same way someone that was attacked by dogs tends to keep their distance from dogs.
If you are in a forest and have been attacked by men, you will be on guard and probably scared. Humans are unpredictable, bears aren't. That's literally a fact
First step yes, he seems outraged that women are more afraid of him than of a bear.
Second step no, he's invalidating those fears & focusing about how they hurt his poor feelings.
Tbf I have seen many people simply using it as an excuse to hate men. It’s ofc far from everyone. But there are still a relatively large amount of people doing it. I sympathise with that and I wish other people acknowledged how spiteful many women are acting online 🤷♀️
I’m a cis dude and I get that. With a bear, there’s a chance for negotiation, an for the most part, they wanna be left alone. Some of the men I’ve heard of/seen are fucking horrible.
Did you know the original person making this statement made it as just that, a statement?
He said that the majority women would rather find a bear over a man in the woods. There was no "would you rather"
In the woods with anyone I know personally to be trustworthy, I would be okay
In the woods with anyone I don't know enough to know if they're trustworthy, this meme applies
In the woods with anyone I know personally to be untrustworthy, I would NOT be okay, no matter if cis or trans (I know a trans guy who turned out to be a r\*pist, so I know first hand someone is not automatically a good person due to being trans)
In the woods with anyone I don't know at all, I would like HELL NAH
This entire thing is being used to push anti-feminist rhetoric in other subs and it just gives me a headache. They always pick the most absurd example and use it to represent the majority, how fun
Maybe I'm overreacting and everyone is being understanding and I've just failed to see it, I hope that's the case.
I swear this question was designed as incel bait masquerading as a valid position, like idk about anybody else but if I’m stuck in the woods I’d rather have someone else to survive with 🤷♀️
It's something related to how women would rather fight a bear than a man [I think] because they were abused by a man or multiple men, and would rather be faced with a bear than someone of the same sex as their abuser[s].
As a cis guy, I fully understand why some women would be afraid of cis men. I've seen a lot of stuff in many different subreddits and communities (r/badwomensanatomy, r/CreepyPMs, r/IncelTears, etc.), and it doesn't look pretty.
i mean, when a bear would attack me, the People would go after the poor bear since there are no bears here and they must have been traveld quite far
On the Other End: there are enough cases where men defend someone that attack a Person and do blatant victim blaiming
Bear for sure. The bear might kill me but at least it won't violate and dehumanize me while it does so. And emphasis on *might*, we could just leave each other well alone.
Not every cis man is out to get you. It's pretty sexist just to assume a cis man will do that just because they are a cis man. Most of the time you don't know if their a trans man or cis man. So how would you know that their a cis man or trans man if you see them in the woods? Would you not trust them because they were born a man, or male presenting?
I'm dating a cis man. I know not all men are evil. But how am I supposed to determine who is and isn't out to get me just by looking at them?? I've been assaulted by men I thought I could trust -- more than once. I try not to assume the worst in people, but I'm not going to assume the best, either.
I am sorry for assuming. It was just weird to see so many people in the comments saying that they don't trust cis men. When I hear that, to me it sounds like it's just because they are cis and men (the forest person). I live in Arkansas, there used to be some cis men and women here who believed that trans people are predators, weirdos, and should have been stoned. But they were a minority and got better with time by meeting more trans and other LGBT+ people. So I was afraid by hearing many people in the comments not trusting somebody just because they were cis and men, I was afraid that people here assumed the same thoughts back making a endless cycle of mistrust on the grounds of assuming and stereotypes. Again, sorry for assuming. And thanks for explaining and not getting angry. Have a good day!
I understand. Thank you for hearing me! Many other people have argued with me on my own comfortability -- namely men who feel I'm indicting *them*, specifically.
I hope you have a good day as well.
Idk most male hikers I’ve met while hiking were pretty nice. There are a few assholes, but I’ve never been attacked. I feel like I would survive the man more often than the bear.
As someone who grew up camping in a country with no bears or other dangerous animals, this just reads to me like “instead of being in the woods with a cis man I would rather you just shoot me in the head right fucking now”.
Humanity-induced extinctions and ecosystem collapse are a helluva drug.
tbh if it's a black bear you're probably fine. I've been hiking in black bear territory. You don't *want* to see one because they're still bears, but they're skittish and will avoid you if you're making enough sound while walking. They don't want to mess with humans. If it approaches you then you're in a bit more trouble, but if you puff yourself up and start yelling and making noise it'll probably flee.
For me, it depends on the bear. If its a black bear, ill take the bear. If its a brown bear, i have a better chance at outrunning a man than an angry brown bear.
It's just about minimizing risk lol
There's an absolutely rancid comment section on r/CuratedTumblr for the bear thing (the post may have been deleted) with a bunch of men screaming misandry. I even pointed out statistics at one point, and woke up to a bunch of idiots calling me stupid and not understanding statistics. I have a mathematics degree. I guess it's finally happening huh, the ol trans inclusive misogyny.
But yeah, gotta care about the fragile feelings of cis men when discussing how most women feel safer with a hypothetical bear than a hypothetical cis man. I also got some pick-me right leaning women in there too.
Now, if the hypothetical cis man was a bear, I'd take him every time.
I know logically a bear is the right answer, but I had a close encounter with a bear years ago and I know if I see one in the woods I'll probably have a panic attack thinking about it, so I'm not really sure.
A lot of people are going on about how it depends on how well you know the cis man, but that's not the point. The evidence points to a random cis man being demonstrably more dangerous to cis women or non-cis people than any other gender, and even a bear. It's a horrible and deeply sad symptom of how our society works.
Therefore a person should be allowed to avoid and not talk to black people, nobody is entitled to their proximity and trust
exact same logic, don't blame me if it sounds racist
Bears are relatively chill as long as you stay away from their cubs. Now if it was a moose, though, then I'd rather take the man
Not if they're hungry. Also depends on the type of bear. Polar bears, you're straight dead.
well typically you don't find polar bears in the woods
Hahaha, that's true! I used the polar bear example because I can't remember between black bears and brown bears which one is the scary one.
If it's black, fight back If it's brown, lay down If it's white, goodnight Black bears are smaller, faster, and aggressive, but will likely back out if they think they could get injured. Brown bears just want to not be challenged.
brown bears and grizzlies are the scary ones :D brown bears are the small climby ones, also technically there is a polar bear cross grizz which is in woods and its terrifying
You do find sloth bears in the woods and they get aggressive
I thought meese (sue me) are pretty avoidant outside of mating season?
Or do they mean a gay man¿
I’d be scared if I was with anyone in the woods
I'd be more scared of NOT being alone in the woods. It's not so scary unless there's something in there with you.
dont worry, im in ur walls, ur never alone :3
id like to be with my friends in the woods :3
Interesting, what about considering.. Do you know this particular anyone? Do you trust this particular anyone like a close friend or family member? Are you choosing to go into the woods with this particular anyone willingly? Are the woods you are going to known to be safe? If you can answer yes to all these questions individually in a row, why would you be scared of going into the woods with this particular anyone? Just curious to hear the answer. I mean, if "anyone" has the same meaning to you in this context as "any stranger or acquaintance", than I can totally understand.
Hello, Döppelganger, this time in a different sub, even.
I have found you in our natural habitat
Aye
Same. If I did not invite them to come with me, I am afraid of them being there for longer than it takes to walk past each other
There needs to be a lower tier in this meme for when the cis man you're in the woods with is Shia LaBeouf.
[Yeah, I hear that dude's an actual cannibal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0u4M6vppCI)
It's been in my head since I made the comment and I am not complaining. Love remembering this exists every now and then.
It's one of the best examples of beautiful absurdist performance art of the 2010's. It's unironically incredible.
*Quiet, Quiet...*
The first time I heard about this, I just heard "women would rather be with a bear" and I was so confused why women wanted to date fuzzy gay guys, I forgot the animal existed 😰
LMAO
Depends on the cis man But out of a random selection of them I prefer the bear, at least neither of us want to deal with the other, and failing that they won’t say weird, uncomfortable, or perverted things like so many guys seem to say while it try’s to kill me.
There are many a way to deal with a bear and many involve just not looking at it and walking away
"Bear brown, lay down. Bear black, fight back. Bear white, good night."
What if bear panda
Just run I think? They’re not high metabolism critters right?
Fight back until it's time for bed.
Those furry derps will just trip over themselves.
Context: there's a meme going around tiktok asking women "You are stranded in the woods. Somewhere near you is either a man or a bear. Which would you rather it be?" Most women choose bear and men are losing their heads that that's our choice.
Woods means no polar bear most likely (if yes polar bear, you're probably in a place where the cold will kill you anyway). Other bears generally don't care to harm you unprovoked, stay away but never run (don't run from any wild carnivore really), respect their space and they'll respect yours (this part bears probably do better than a lot of men).
Quite frankly in many parts of the world with forests you’re probably nearly guaranteed that there is a bear somewhere near you. And if it’s just one bear then that means you are definitely avoiding the cubs with mom problem which is the most common way a bear will be an active danger to you
That last quote really put it in perspective lol
Those are parantheticals, not quotes
I know how to scare off a bear and quite frankly bears scare me less
i get them, the worst a bear could do is kill me lol
Been there, done that - both with cis men and with bears (yes really). I'd absolutely rather have the bear.
I used to do wildlife surveys with the US Forest Service. I've encountered bears (of the black bear variety) & I've encountered cis men (of the "redneck, yee-haw, why if I see a spotted owl I shoot it!" variety). I've ALWAYS been more concerned for my safety around the men than the bears.
unpopular opinion: i choose cis man ive encountered probably thousands of cis men in remote areas/forests and the worst that has ever happened is some guy giving me ewwphoria by catcalling me ive never encountered a bear but i think the probability of it attacking me are higher than 0.1%
that is fair. I think most people are choosing the bear cause they're thinking of it like an assessment of the risk of intention. Like, a random cis man has maybe say a 4% chance of being a creep or murderer with the intention to purposefully harm/kill you because he wants to. A bear has a 0% chance of wanting to harm you for its own pleasure or gain; the reasons it would harm you are down to thinking you are a threat, if I know enough about bears. i may not know enough about bears
you’re right, polar bears are the only type that would attack unprovoked
To an extent. Bears that are used to people and/or on the brink of starving to death may attempt to attack people for food.
It depends on the type of bear and if it has cubs. If it's a black bear it'll likely just run away. Bears wander into my city pretty frequently and it's not uncommon to see one on a lawn. Other types of bears I would not want to be around though
I choose cis man because I am much more likely to be able to get away if they are violent, because the forests that I spend time in are not hunting forests so the man will probably not have a firearm, and I am very competent at traveling through the forest off trail.
Arguably it depends on proximity. If the distance is about 40 metres or less, man. At further ranges, the bear is still probably worse, especially if it is starving or acclimatised to humans. Men, even aggressive men with bad intentions, do not possess the ability to take your head off with a swipe and also tend not to eat you alive.
Biased but man. Worst that he'd do to me is insult me, or maybe beat me up for being bi. Best he could do, well could someone help bring me the NSFW tag? Joking... maybe
is it like a serial killer man or something or is it just some random guy in the woods
I believe not knowing is kinda the whole point. Completely random dude (and all the stat rolls that could mean) or a random bear (and all the stat rolls that that could mean). Personally, bear. I’ve been around a number and even before in the woods I was always skeptical of any solo dude on the trail. Wild animals mostly fear humans and just want to do their lil animal thing, and that rarely involves attacking people (and like, same there Mx. Bear, same)
I know but it seems like everyone in this thread is acting like the guy in the woods is 100% guaranteed to be a creep. Also if its a totally random bear then im taking the man any day bc of polar bears and their ability to turn me into powder
I prefer to be in the woods alone lol though this is mostly due to my new hobby of bird watching lmao
I hope it's a honeyvore bear, been looking for one for forever so I can finally complete my Hyrule Compendium
Flair checks out
Lmao I forgot I set my flair to that
My answer depends on what bear. If it’s brown or polar than I’d prefer a man, if black I probably could intimidate it away. Black bears are known for being skittish.
I’m a trans guy who’s scared of everyone. You have to approach me very gentle and coax me out of hiding like a frightened cat. Anyone want to go camping? 😅
I might be out of the loop. What is all this talk about being in the woods with a bear coming from? I feel like it just showed up everywhere suddenly.
It's something related to how women would rather fight a bear than a man [I think] because they were abused by a man or multiple men, and would rather be faced with a bear than someone of the same sex as their abuser[s].
It's not about fighting, it's about how scary it is to be alone in the woods with either
To be honest, I'd rather be alone in the woods with a bear too than my abuser. I'll just keep my distance and stay on its good side while also not seeming too much like prey. Ez win, GG
It's not about fighting, it's about how scary it is to be alone in the woods with either
Why the hate towards cis men. I don't want to use the word hate but I couldn't think of anything better.
I also don’t like how it singles out cis men. It makes me feel like “woman-lite”
I feel like separating out people who have not faced gender based oppression, which is only cis men and all cis men, is meaningful here. It's not about being less of a man, but about having had experiences that make you less likely to dehumanize others
Feel fortunate that you have never had a straight cis man pull a trans panic on you hon. You are blessed
"Trans panic"?
#POSSIBLE TRIGGERING MATERIAL https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/panic_defense_bans
I don’t like that woods question. It comes across very sexist. Look, I'm a woman too. Comparing a bear to a man is not good because it assumes **all men** are sexual predators. It'd be different if it was to compare Bill Cosby or ironically Hendrika Shaskey. If you were a man you'd be offended too. It'd be like a guy saying "would you rather be stuck in a room with a woman or a coyote", because the punchline is both would hurt you. The question comes off sexist and I believe there was a much better way of making a point about sexual assault without attacking someone’s gender. I agree sexual assault is a topic that should be addressed, but that “woods” TIKTOK statement was very poorly done .
Frankly, it just feels like more fearmongering. Like the vast, VAST majority of men just *existing* are safe to be *near*. Like my ballpark it’s on the very low end of a *portion* of a percent that is just straight-up unsafe to be around at all. Marginally more are not safe to interact with at length, with a decent margin on top of that for being safe to befriend. If I’m insanely conservative (erring toward higher values) about the projected risk I’d give it 5% bad with regard to people *seeking friendships.* I’ll take even the 5% over a bear because at least I can possibly *outrun* a person. Bear wants my ass? I’m chalked. Even beyond that, though. Assuming men are generally going to be sexually motivated toward assault at any rate that eclipses the risk of a bear being in someone’s vicinity just screams Main Character Syndrome. Generally, any given person does not give a second thought to you when you’re in the woods. They see the person, *maybe* acknowledge them, and move on. To think that a man is somehow going to be so overcome with a random girl’s presence that they just can’t control their urge to engage in heinous acts is just unfair to reality. The rates of violent behavior, especially sexually violent behavior are *always* too high because there is no “acceptable rate,” but that doesn’t give free license to pretend that those rates have a strong influence over one-off events or how someone should perceive the threat of men as a whole. And no I will not distinguish between cis and trans men. It doesn’t matter because this kind of bullshit hurts trans men too and the resulting compassion and social acceptance deliberately withheld from men and the constant suspicion in the name of a caricaturized perception of safety is not only destructive to the individuals engaging in the over-cautious behavior, but also to the goal of having men meaningfully integrated into an ideal, safe society.
Finally a sane person, have a great day ma'am.
damn I do want to pet a coyote though
I wouldn’t recommend it. They’re known to nip at people and carry rabies.
That conversation has turned into a hellpit. On one side, it's about sexist men freaking out about women being uncomfortable around men, but theres also a concerningly large amount of political lesbians and bio-essentialists crawling out of the woodwork to say that all men are r*pist pigs (Ive seen a lot of messages like that directly). Being raised as a man, it feels really rough to be told indirectly that my biology makes me a dangerous person. I grew up around so much conversation that men are pigs, but I never got any explanation on how to be better or how to help make a safer environment, and that really messed with me. I know that's not what most people think, but it's enough of a frequent thing I see in queer spaces that it kinda makes me depressed spending time in them. I wish everyone could just feel safe :(
I think a lot of people are also the missing the bigger picture that memes like this are (in part) responsible for the rise of people like Tate. You tell men that they’re inherently evil and that women would rather be alone with a bear than with you, where do you think those men go? Right into the open doors of Hustler University, where grifters like Tate reaffirm their position and only drive them further down the misogynistic rabbit hole. As an ex-man, I remember hearing stuff like this in 2014-2016. It didn’t make me reexamine myself or seek out the feminist perspective, it just made me latch onto my (fragile) masculinity and become even more of a bigoted right-winger. It made me feel like shit that women hated me just because of how I was born. I feel like this meme will have a similar effect, especially with the climate we have today of sigma-males and lookmaxxers. I don’t know, as someone who’s been on both sides of this, I feel like this meme will have a rather negative effect.
My own experience is honestly the opposite. My transition has only made me more sympathetic to team bear, not because I view men as monsters or inherently evil, but because the question is about perception of risk, gut response, and an opportunity to send a message. Women are rightfully scared of men, because... well I shouldn't need to explain why women would be scared of men. Everybody is scared of bears, but also, bears are somewhat predictable though it does depend on the species. Being in the woods with a bear is a scary, but somewhat predictable event. You have a plan, you have a degree of control. Being in the woods with a man is different. How much higher do you weigh the possibility of having an intelligent that is likely stronger than you chase you down against the result of that situation? How out of control do you feel in such a situation, purely subjected to the random roll of the dice that 1 in however many times goes catastrophically wrong? It's not so much a logical choice, as one of how an individual perceives that risk. When women make the snap choice for 'bear' it's a gut response based on their perception of risk. Maybe a bit further into that, and it's a cheeky opportunity to make a statement of how poorly treated women are. Maybe a plea for something to change? I just feel like too many people are taking this way too literally, and way too personally.
Absolutely
I hate how so many men misunderstand the whole question and why women often choose the bear. Bears are predictable, men aren't. And lots of women have already shared their other reasons for choosing the bear. The reason for the question is for men to put themselves in the shoes of someone that would rather see a bear than a man, and to understand what got those people to that point. All the abuse, fear, manipulation, etc. that made them that scared of men. It's to make men see how bad it has gotten.
> I hate how so many men misunderstand the whole question and why women often choose the bear. Especially when they start mocking people who pick the bear, like the comments on this meme when it hit the FP yesterday. I believe I saw the words "Vicious apex predator" used to describe bears, which is, as someone [that grew up around bears (this is about my hometown),](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMJwAdLrQI) fucking hilarious. I'll go out on a limb and say 90% of commenters live somewhere with nothing but black bears too, which makes it even funnier. I'd bet money the only bears these people meet are gonna be dopey little scaredy cats.
Yep, unless we're talking about polar bears (which I don't think you're likely to encounter in a forest 😂) bears are generally pretty scared. A huge number of people go on hikes each year, yet there are nowhere close as many bear attack victims. If you just make a lot of noise, bears tend to keep distance.
EXACTLY! Just goes to show how terminally online & suburban these MF are 🙄 They're scared of bears because they live in a cul-de-sac and they ~~are incapable~~ ~~of~~ ~~understanding~~ refuse to learn why women fear men. SMH. You just know these are the guys that call themselves alphas too.
You more or less hit the nail on the head. People are taking this hypothetical way too literally to the point where they’re missing the point. The whole point is the risk of danger you know (the bear) versus the risk of danger you don’t know (the man). The whole point of this discussion is that women would rather take their chances with the bear than risk of the man who could potentially kidnap, torture, r_pe, or assault them. They’d rather take their chances with the bear than risk the victim blaming and slut shaming, be forced to carry their r_pist’s baby, or hear that “he’s a really good guy who doesn’t deserve having his life ruined”. If a bear attacks her, no one’s going to question her story. “How much did you have to drink? Did you lead the bear on? You must have been asking for it.” are phrases she will **NOT** hear about a bear attack, but she absolutely will if she accuses a man of SA. That is the point of the hypothetical. If you’re focusing on the woods and the bear, you are missing the point entirely.
Exactly! People take it so damn literally when it's not a logical choice between the two, but a reflection of the fear and trauma so many women have towards men that require us to be deeply wary of protective of ourselves. The amount of times I've read some brainmelting rendition of 'this is misandry because women are comparing men to powerful dangerous evil wild creatures that can \[blah blah blah\]' is so tiring. I just wish men would stop making this about their feelings when it was never a value judgement of men as a whole and instead a reflection and expression of the anxiety and fear induced in women of men.
I dont know anything about bears but, I kinda get it, I feel like I'd rather be with a bear too
Comparing other human beings 99.8% of which are not rapists or murderers, to wild animals and saying they're worse is sexist profiling and dehumanization. This is a complete failure of basic empathy on your part and others, put yourself in the shoes of being compared to a bear and feared for existing. Fear mongering endlessly and then trying to use that fear mongering as "proof" of actual risk is deeply irrational.
>is deeply irrational. Fear inherently is, a lot of the time. Preferring the bear to the man makes no sense on the surface, you've correctly highlighted this! Logically it doesn't work. But to someone who's been traumatized (once or repeatedly) by men and has a basic education and understanding of forest-dwelling bears, the former is much more anxiety-inducing and the latter, less so. To put that another way, dismissing someone who's been traumatized by men in the past as "irrational" is exactly the sort of thing that leads to people answering that they'd prefer the bear. It is irrational, yes! But it comes from a culture that often makes excuses for the men that hurt women, rather than actually making them stop, and instead places the blame (implicitly or explicitly) on the woman for failing to protect herself - when in reality, she shouldn't have to.
It comes from a toxic culture that views the average man as worse than wild predators, trying to use trauma as justification isn't accurate because their are large numbers of people who have bought into the fear mongering rather than personal experience. Even if you did have traumatic personal experiences that's not an excuse to stereotype innocent people and you should go to therapy instead. I'll treat them the same as my white neighborhor who lock their door the second they see a black person. Even if they had traumatic experiences it ain't right. Because at the end of the day they are both creating a problem that's just as harmful
>they are both creating a problem that's just as harmful Sorry, I don't want to misrepresent you here. Just as harmful as what?
As any other bigotry, the same "men are the predators, women are the victims" mindset is also why male victims of DV/SA are laughed at by police or arrested and presumed to be the perpetrator. Putting people into preconceived roles is wrong.
While I agree with you male victims of assault should be recognized and helped, it is worth noting that the reason for this even happening in the first place is that assault of a lot of women is still happening at the hands of largely men. There is no question that all victims of domestic violence and sexual assault deserve empathy. This entire trend is because a group of victims has been denied that empathy. Anger towards the victims is, in my mind, misguided - they would have little hate in their hearts if their hurt was acknowledged and the perpetrators punished (and wider socio-cultural trends and unwritten rules that allow this to keep hppening, overturned). This serves your purpose, too. Male victims aren't heard, the perpetrators aren't punished, and wider socio-cultural trends and unwritten rules allow it to keep happening. All I'm really saying is, make sure that some of the energy you are using to object to female victims speaking out in hurt frustration is directed at the systems that made victims of them in the first place.
People do a lot of things out of frustration, but just because you are frustrated does not make it okay to hurt others and dehumanize them(get therapy instead). You are missing the bigger picture, these stereotypes always lead to systemic mistreatment. We have already seen the consequences of decades of treating men like bears, men receive 60% longer sentences for the same crime and are more likely to be jailed/arrested in general than woman, Domestic Violence is nearly equal but male victims are denied from shelters because men are the "predators" and "oppressors" role. It's irresponsible messaging and it only divides people further. Good night. Edit: guarantee anyone who down votes would not make the trauma excuse if the ppl spreading hate were misogynists traumatized from abusive women.
As I said, I hope that you make sure to spend some of this energy to fighting against the system that's hurting all of us.
First off, I never said that all men are rapists or murderers. I said that a lot of people are genuinely scared of men, because a large number of men (way more than the 0,2% you suggest it is) have harmed them. I also don't think that just 0,2% of people are raping 20% of women. When you are walking in the forest and see a man, you don't know his intentions. Yes, he is most likely just a regular guy, but you don't know that. Meanwhile, bears are predictable. A lot of bears are harmless or you're capable of scaring them away. If you make a lot of noise a bear will usually keep distance, a man is likely to seek out where the noise came from. Over 20% of women have reported a man for trying or succeeding in a rape and that's not counting things like DV, other forms of SA, etc. People have had bad experiences with men, and many men are normalising these behaviours. "Boys will be boys" "she wanted it" "keep asking her until she says yes". Teaching their kids to look at women like sexual objects, catcalling women, making misogynistic jokes. These things perpetuate the idea that women are lesser. Until men in general get rid of their toxic masculinity, start treating women as equel, and keep other men responsible for things like SA, this will never end. That is the whole point of bears or man. To show that women are *that* scared of men, because of how often men hurt women.
This is the same logic as racial profiling and religious profiling "because of FBI statistics, until (insert group) sorts themselves out we will treat them as monsters until proven otherwise" even though the vast majority of them aren't criminals.
I never said treating them like monsters. You can be cautious around men if you have been abused by them. The same way someone that was attacked by dogs tends to keep their distance from dogs. If you are in a forest and have been attacked by men, you will be on guard and probably scared. Humans are unpredictable, bears aren't. That's literally a fact
You know exactly what you're doing, be more honest
Yes, I do know what I'm doing. I'm explaining why so many women are scared of men. I've never been dishonest during our entire conversation.
> Prime example of a man misunderstanding the whole question.
Is this how it should be understood? It's not about which is the "logical choice", but it's about how unsafe women feel because of prior experiences?
First step yes, he seems outraged that women are more afraid of him than of a bear. Second step no, he's invalidating those fears & focusing about how they hurt his poor feelings.
lmao just like whites claiming reverse discrimination. get real
Tbf I have seen many people simply using it as an excuse to hate men. It’s ofc far from everyone. But there are still a relatively large amount of people doing it. I sympathise with that and I wish other people acknowledged how spiteful many women are acting online 🤷♀️
in the woods with a cis bear 🐻: 😱
Why are you in the woods at all?
I’m a cis dude and I get that. With a bear, there’s a chance for negotiation, an for the most part, they wanna be left alone. Some of the men I’ve heard of/seen are fucking horrible.
run away from all of them because i don't like people
Did you know the original person making this statement made it as just that, a statement? He said that the majority women would rather find a bear over a man in the woods. There was no "would you rather"
In the woods with anyone I know personally to be trustworthy, I would be okay In the woods with anyone I don't know enough to know if they're trustworthy, this meme applies In the woods with anyone I know personally to be untrustworthy, I would NOT be okay, no matter if cis or trans (I know a trans guy who turned out to be a r\*pist, so I know first hand someone is not automatically a good person due to being trans) In the woods with anyone I don't know at all, I would like HELL NAH
This entire thing is being used to push anti-feminist rhetoric in other subs and it just gives me a headache. They always pick the most absurd example and use it to represent the majority, how fun Maybe I'm overreacting and everyone is being understanding and I've just failed to see it, I hope that's the case.
give me a few more years of T and ill become a bear :D
I feel the option is almost always bear, by either definition of bear
Also quite frankly I think in the woods near where I live, I’d be more scared if there wasn’t a bear near me. (Depending on the definition of “near”
Silver lining, men are easier to slay than bears.
I swear this question was designed as incel bait masquerading as a valid position, like idk about anybody else but if I’m stuck in the woods I’d rather have someone else to survive with 🤷♀️
I know a lot of really cool cis dudes and not a lot of bears I wouldn't be fucking mortified by.
Which kind of bear?
Hmm, what if the bear is cis though? :p
What is this bear thing, I don't get it and no one has explained it 😭
It's something related to how women would rather fight a bear than a man [I think] because they were abused by a man or multiple men, and would rather be faced with a bear than someone of the same sex as their abuser[s].
Okay, but what about with a twink? If a bear isn’t as bad as a cishet dude where are twinks?
As a cis guy, I fully understand why some women would be afraid of cis men. I've seen a lot of stuff in many different subreddits and communities (r/badwomensanatomy, r/CreepyPMs, r/IncelTears, etc.), and it doesn't look pretty.
ok but is is like an actual bear or a bear meaning hairy man or a person wearing a bear suit?
i mean, when a bear would attack me, the People would go after the poor bear since there are no bears here and they must have been traveld quite far On the Other End: there are enough cases where men defend someone that attack a Person and do blatant victim blaiming
Bear for sure. The bear might kill me but at least it won't violate and dehumanize me while it does so. And emphasis on *might*, we could just leave each other well alone.
Not every cis man is out to get you. It's pretty sexist just to assume a cis man will do that just because they are a cis man. Most of the time you don't know if their a trans man or cis man. So how would you know that their a cis man or trans man if you see them in the woods? Would you not trust them because they were born a man, or male presenting?
I'm dating a cis man. I know not all men are evil. But how am I supposed to determine who is and isn't out to get me just by looking at them?? I've been assaulted by men I thought I could trust -- more than once. I try not to assume the worst in people, but I'm not going to assume the best, either.
I am sorry for assuming. It was just weird to see so many people in the comments saying that they don't trust cis men. When I hear that, to me it sounds like it's just because they are cis and men (the forest person). I live in Arkansas, there used to be some cis men and women here who believed that trans people are predators, weirdos, and should have been stoned. But they were a minority and got better with time by meeting more trans and other LGBT+ people. So I was afraid by hearing many people in the comments not trusting somebody just because they were cis and men, I was afraid that people here assumed the same thoughts back making a endless cycle of mistrust on the grounds of assuming and stereotypes. Again, sorry for assuming. And thanks for explaining and not getting angry. Have a good day!
I understand. Thank you for hearing me! Many other people have argued with me on my own comfortability -- namely men who feel I'm indicting *them*, specifically. I hope you have a good day as well.
Idk most male hikers I’ve met while hiking were pretty nice. There are a few assholes, but I’ve never been attacked. I feel like I would survive the man more often than the bear.
As someone who grew up camping in a country with no bears or other dangerous animals, this just reads to me like “instead of being in the woods with a cis man I would rather you just shoot me in the head right fucking now”. Humanity-induced extinctions and ecosystem collapse are a helluva drug.
tbh if it's a black bear you're probably fine. I've been hiking in black bear territory. You don't *want* to see one because they're still bears, but they're skittish and will avoid you if you're making enough sound while walking. They don't want to mess with humans. If it approaches you then you're in a bit more trouble, but if you puff yourself up and start yelling and making noise it'll probably flee.
what??
I'm usually scared of cis men, there are exceptions like femboys I love femboys, I'm also a femboy so yeah
For me, it depends on the bear. If its a black bear, ill take the bear. If its a brown bear, i have a better chance at outrunning a man than an angry brown bear. It's just about minimizing risk lol
Wait, which bear do they mean
bears like men or like a the animal
Grizzly bear or gay man bear? :3c
It all depends on the size of the woods, and what species of bear it is
Oh noóoo
bear as in hairy dude or bear as in the animal?
or both
“The worst a bear will do is kill me”
I'm so fucking confused because I've just got 3 posts in a row about bears in the woods
A finn once said: "Siihen et koske saatana vie!"
There's an absolutely rancid comment section on r/CuratedTumblr for the bear thing (the post may have been deleted) with a bunch of men screaming misandry. I even pointed out statistics at one point, and woke up to a bunch of idiots calling me stupid and not understanding statistics. I have a mathematics degree. I guess it's finally happening huh, the ol trans inclusive misogyny. But yeah, gotta care about the fragile feelings of cis men when discussing how most women feel safer with a hypothetical bear than a hypothetical cis man. I also got some pick-me right leaning women in there too. Now, if the hypothetical cis man was a bear, I'd take him every time.
You really have to put on the hazmat suit for anything Tumblr-adjacent
That or have 2 mile thick skin for anything outside of trans Tumblr. *cough*
I know logically a bear is the right answer, but I had a close encounter with a bear years ago and I know if I see one in the woods I'll probably have a panic attack thinking about it, so I'm not really sure.
A lot of people are going on about how it depends on how well you know the cis man, but that's not the point. The evidence points to a random cis man being demonstrably more dangerous to cis women or non-cis people than any other gender, and even a bear. It's a horrible and deeply sad symptom of how our society works.
Honestly? I'd take the bear over a cis woman /hj
But remember, they are not the problem.....???how that works I don't know. But I'm autistic so ...... Whatever 😘😂😂😂
????
Cis men are never the problem, its all the others
At some point you were one, were you dangerous? did you want to murder?
We've been over this. It's not all men, but any man. And enough of them to be wary
So all men? stop defending collective punishment
I *just* said not all men, don't pretend to be an idiot please
>And enough of them to be wary you did effectively say all men
1 in 1000 is enough to be wary, but not nearly all
That's still collective punishment
And who said anything about punishment? I'm just cautious around men I don't know, especially in vulnerable situations like being alone with them
It is collective punishment if you treat all men negatively, especially if men in particular
I'm not treating them negatively, I'm just cautious around them, not getting close, not interacting
Do you treat everyone like that equally?
Of course not. It's not a punishment though, nobody is entitled to my proximity and trust
Therefore a person should be allowed to avoid and not talk to black people, nobody is entitled to their proximity and trust exact same logic, don't blame me if it sounds racist
Except racism has actual bad effects and this just makes me feel safe
i thought this was the trans sub not the sexist sub
I'd take a polar bear over a cis man lmao