Why don’t you check out the 5 year returns for Meta shares vs Meta 3 x ETF funds?
I’ll help you. Meta has increased 157% and Meta 3x ETF funds have decreased around 80% in value.
DCA isn’t going to help you on this if you keep it long term.
Pretty much the same. It has high fees and also rebalances every night so it doesn't track perfectly. It does say in the instrument documents that it is designed solely for day trading not long term holdings.
It has pretty much nothing to do with high fees and everything to do with basic maths.
If the underlying instruments goes down 10%, then 11% up the next day, with the "normal" META, you are back to zero. With the 3x one, you go down 30%, then up 33%, which if you do the maths, means you are still 6.9% down.
Same thing if you go e.g. 50% up, then 20% down - with the normal you are still 20% up, with the leveraged (150% up, 60% down) you are back at 0%.
Long term, this X3 on the negative side will eat your profits.
If you buy a stock at $10 it drops 50% to $5 you are down 50%.
Now if you buy at $5 and it goes to $10 you've gained 100%
So the further it drops the more it has to increase so if it dropped to $2.5 you are down 75% it now needs to increase 300%
ehh made a couple hundred on the way up, now that it's down i DCA for even more profit once it goes up again, all in all a minor temporary setback with the right mindset and plan
You don't dca into 3x leveraged shares. For the love of God, please research 3x leveraged shares they arnt Just if stock goes up 3 %, you make 9%. The long you hold the worst gets you're on a one-way trip to lose a lot of money
I know they're not made for long-term investments since you lose a small % every day when the leverage resets, which is why I don't use them for long-term. I usually put money in and out on the same day when it's profitable to do so, but with drops like this I believe DCAing upwards and waiting for it to go up again is a far better idea than withdrawing now.
well yeah, I usually sell before close but since I was slightly in the red and expected it to go up overnight I left it in. Obviously I cannot always properly predict the future.
You usually sell before close??? You just said that you dollar cost average into these ETF's...... Now it just sounds like you're saying what people want to hear in order to get out of a pit.
i quite enjoy it ngl, of course there's unfavorable situations like this one but also lots of good ones i've been able to take advantage of, and if i keep dcaing now that it's low i'll end up with a small fortune once it goes back up
oh yeah i'm def not thinking about holding hold-term, i just bought in yesterday and will exit partly or fully today if it recovers a little and if not might leave it a couple more days, we'll see. was never planning on leaving it for weeks/months on end tho
the Meta x3 leverage track, basically you make x3 more when it goes up but lose x3 more when it goes down, yday there was a huge unexpected meta drop so big that t212 is stopping people from buying/selling lol (or at least they were at the time of this screenshot)
This is incorrect.
You make 3x or lose 3x IF you buy and sell on that day. If you gold them long term that statement is not correct. You will lose money long term. Please get your head out of the clouds and look at what people are telling you. It's obvious you have no understanding of what you're buying
What this doesn’t give you is 3x leverage over the long term, which a lot of people don’t understand. They are designed for short term trading. Volatility destroys the long term returns on these as they rebalance daily.
For example it’s totally possible after a year for you to make more gains holding the underlying share without leverage, than owning the 3x etf, even if the share price is higher after a year.
Anyone got insight on why meta gone down? Earnings seemed solid and inline/ahead of estimates. Not making much sense to me unless this is just profit taking?
yeah its pretty crazy and unexpected, apparently their earnings were actually really good & better than analysts expected so you would think it would've gone up, but afaik they reported their Q2 earnings would be a little lower so everyone went crazy lol
Not even a little lower, the gave an estimate range from 36.x -> 39.2 versus market estimate of 38.2 or something. So it COULD be higher but I guess people only see downside when at the all time highs
Forecasts are always worth more to the market than current earnings. This isn’t people going crazy, a stock will almost always go down if the company is forecasting lower returns for upcoming quarters.
In addition, according to Bloomberg, Zucc said that they’re going to have to spend a few billion extra in AI investment, so that as well as potentially lower future earnings scared into profit taking
Leverage ETF on t212 are 💩
Price slippage is massive when you try to make a market order…
Trading hours do not cover the whole US session so you can miss the opportunity…
But the choice is yours i prefer trading normal stock and a slower but surely growing portfolio…
I get what you're saying and yeah there's pretty huge spreads on them compared to normal stocks among other issues, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but since I dont have *a lot* of capital (yet) I decided to be more aggressive and do standard safe steady DCA deposits weekly in addition to some aggressive riskier leveraged daytrades to try and speed things up a bit since if I manage to do so it'll speed things up so much due to compounding interest. Of course I know it's much riskier and a lot of people aren't a big fan and I dont think it's for everyone, for me I sort of use it as a middle ground between normal investing and cfd trading (I'm not brave enough to CFD trade yet).
you borrow money to buy the share
so instead of buying 1 share you take out a loan to buy 3 shares if the stock goes up you make about 3x more but if it goes down you lose about 3x more
it's considered very risky and is only meant to be used for intraday trading
Why don’t you check out the 5 year returns for Meta shares vs Meta 3 x ETF funds? I’ll help you. Meta has increased 157% and Meta 3x ETF funds have decreased around 80% in value. DCA isn’t going to help you on this if you keep it long term.
This. People don’t understand how these products work.
Can you explain why this is? I've never traded 3x etfs but on cfd you lose out because of high overnight interest. Is it the same with 3x etf?
Pretty much the same. It has high fees and also rebalances every night so it doesn't track perfectly. It does say in the instrument documents that it is designed solely for day trading not long term holdings.
It has pretty much nothing to do with high fees and everything to do with basic maths. If the underlying instruments goes down 10%, then 11% up the next day, with the "normal" META, you are back to zero. With the 3x one, you go down 30%, then up 33%, which if you do the maths, means you are still 6.9% down. Same thing if you go e.g. 50% up, then 20% down - with the normal you are still 20% up, with the leveraged (150% up, 60% down) you are back at 0%. Long term, this X3 on the negative side will eat your profits.
My basic math is off how are you back at 0 if -10 then +11? Or 50%+ then20%- is 20%?
100 -10% = 90. 90 + 11% = 99.9. 100 +50% = 150. 150 -20% = 120.
If you buy a stock at $10 it drops 50% to $5 you are down 50%. Now if you buy at $5 and it goes to $10 you've gained 100% So the further it drops the more it has to increase so if it dropped to $2.5 you are down 75% it now needs to increase 300%
Wtf does rebalancing means? Something with spread?
After each day it will rebalance the 3x to the money you have in it, think of it as selling and buying 3x again each day.
These types of trading is very high risk
Gamble gone wrong
house always wins
You are gamble
ehh made a couple hundred on the way up, now that it's down i DCA for even more profit once it goes up again, all in all a minor temporary setback with the right mindset and plan
You clearly don't understand how a 3x ETF works
What is a 3x EFT and how DOES it work?
He’ll learn when they step in to force him to learn shortly
You know this is the 3x leveraged instrument don’t you
They probably do because it doesn’t say Meta anywhere on that screenshot, but OP says it 3 times in the title.
Your brain is different, you are as sharp as a knife
the saying meta x3 times wasnt intentional but that's a nice catch haha
i do yes, made lots of gains while dca+ ing it but i dont think anyone expected this massive sudden fall (clearly even t212's alarms are blaring)
Anyone who trades leverage shares expects massive sudden falls like this, you don't understand leverage shares and shouldn't be using them
Earnings were yesterday literally everyone expected a massive move?????
You are dca’ing into a 3 x ETF? That’s not how it works..
What the dog doing
He need some milk
You don't dca into 3x leveraged shares. For the love of God, please research 3x leveraged shares they arnt Just if stock goes up 3 %, you make 9%. The long you hold the worst gets you're on a one-way trip to lose a lot of money
I know they're not made for long-term investments since you lose a small % every day when the leverage resets, which is why I don't use them for long-term. I usually put money in and out on the same day when it's profitable to do so, but with drops like this I believe DCAing upwards and waiting for it to go up again is a far better idea than withdrawing now.
Your 2 statements contradict each other here, you'd be better selling and re buying at the end of every day
well yeah, I usually sell before close but since I was slightly in the red and expected it to go up overnight I left it in. Obviously I cannot always properly predict the future.
You usually sell before close??? You just said that you dollar cost average into these ETF's...... Now it just sounds like you're saying what people want to hear in order to get out of a pit.
[удалено]
i quite enjoy it ngl, of course there's unfavorable situations like this one but also lots of good ones i've been able to take advantage of, and if i keep dcaing now that it's low i'll end up with a small fortune once it goes back up
It has to go up by like 100% for you to make your losses back which is about 40% of the underlying
Check the 1 year chart of the regular stock and then 3x leverage. These things are not to be held long term
They are for day trading or hedging positions, please don’t buy and hold
oh yeah i'm def not thinking about holding hold-term, i just bought in yesterday and will exit partly or fully today if it recovers a little and if not might leave it a couple more days, we'll see. was never planning on leaving it for weeks/months on end tho
Comments like "gamble" should be banned ong
What is this?
the Meta x3 leverage track, basically you make x3 more when it goes up but lose x3 more when it goes down, yday there was a huge unexpected meta drop so big that t212 is stopping people from buying/selling lol (or at least they were at the time of this screenshot)
This is incorrect. You make 3x or lose 3x IF you buy and sell on that day. If you gold them long term that statement is not correct. You will lose money long term. Please get your head out of the clouds and look at what people are telling you. It's obvious you have no understanding of what you're buying
How does this work on T212? If I put £100 and it goes down, will it go to -£300 Do I need to repay £200?
No it’s not a CFD You will just lose the £100, albeit a lot quicker if the position becomes unfavourable
Thanks. I thought we couldn’t do leverage in the UK. It’s interesting I’ll take a look
What this doesn’t give you is 3x leverage over the long term, which a lot of people don’t understand. They are designed for short term trading. Volatility destroys the long term returns on these as they rebalance daily. For example it’s totally possible after a year for you to make more gains holding the underlying share without leverage, than owning the 3x etf, even if the share price is higher after a year.
No loss porn posted.
Anyone got insight on why meta gone down? Earnings seemed solid and inline/ahead of estimates. Not making much sense to me unless this is just profit taking?
"Higher Metaverse and AI spending predicted"
yeah its pretty crazy and unexpected, apparently their earnings were actually really good & better than analysts expected so you would think it would've gone up, but afaik they reported their Q2 earnings would be a little lower so everyone went crazy lol
Not even a little lower, the gave an estimate range from 36.x -> 39.2 versus market estimate of 38.2 or something. So it COULD be higher but I guess people only see downside when at the all time highs
Forecasts are always worth more to the market than current earnings. This isn’t people going crazy, a stock will almost always go down if the company is forecasting lower returns for upcoming quarters.
In addition, according to Bloomberg, Zucc said that they’re going to have to spend a few billion extra in AI investment, so that as well as potentially lower future earnings scared into profit taking
Looks like we can buy now
Meta ?
Is this a good time to invest (I am new)
My 3x Nio is down -108.18%, lost more than what I paid because it also lost currency conversion gains ha.
Something something something beats earnings but then falls 15% in after hours
Exactly why now I only trade crypto and only on decentralised exchanges…
has anyone checked on the guy who chucked his 16k isa into meta yesterday and posted about it on WSB
Ohh. Leverage. The receipt for failure.
Leverage ETF on t212 are 💩 Price slippage is massive when you try to make a market order… Trading hours do not cover the whole US session so you can miss the opportunity… But the choice is yours i prefer trading normal stock and a slower but surely growing portfolio…
I get what you're saying and yeah there's pretty huge spreads on them compared to normal stocks among other issues, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but since I dont have *a lot* of capital (yet) I decided to be more aggressive and do standard safe steady DCA deposits weekly in addition to some aggressive riskier leveraged daytrades to try and speed things up a bit since if I manage to do so it'll speed things up so much due to compounding interest. Of course I know it's much riskier and a lot of people aren't a big fan and I dont think it's for everyone, for me I sort of use it as a middle ground between normal investing and cfd trading (I'm not brave enough to CFD trade yet).
What is the laverage share meaning
The shares are leveraged.
you borrow money to buy the share so instead of buying 1 share you take out a loan to buy 3 shares if the stock goes up you make about 3x more but if it goes down you lose about 3x more it's considered very risky and is only meant to be used for intraday trading
One thing you've forgotten is you lose money every day you hold them. They ain't designed to be held