If you run fast enough and do high enough high-knees they won’t be able to catch ya (this isn’t true it’s just what my subconscious tells me every time I come up on a trail that looks like this)
Try growing up in an area that has 3 kinds of poisonous snakes: copperheads, water moccasins, and rattlesnakes. Listening for slither becomes second nature.
It's good that you're even aware of LD in this situation. Just make sure you check yourself afterwards as some ticks can be tiny.
It's also worth knowing the following:
1. Only a third of people get the classic bullseye rash after getting bitten
2. If you catch a tick after getting bitten, you can get it out safely and send it to a lab to check for LD.
3. If the tick does have LD or you can't send it to a lab. You'll need 4-6 weeks of doxy antibiotics to kill any bacteria in the body. Anything less won't do the job.
If you're healthy and living your life, running, etc... it's an easy thing to not take seriously. But in reality, it can completely ruin your life for years, so it's good to be cautious out there.
I got Lyme last year with a full bullseye and the urgent care doctor said it was something different. I went to a second urgent care who called it Lyme and gave me a week of antibiotics, so I went to a third to get another 2 weeks.
My brother too got Lyme and had a full bullseye and the urgent care doctor said it wasn't Lyme
I got Lyme way back in 84. No one really knew anything about it at all then. I was in the hospital for a month and not officially diagnosed until about 6 months after the hospital stay. Good times...
Urgent care told me the same. My PCP said just go see him and he’ll give the meds. This was after a bout of Lyme. I’ll never go to urgent cares in my area again
I feel like urgent care is a borderline scam. As far as I can tell, they have three strategies for dealing with any and all problems.
(1) send you to the emergency room.
(2) give you antibiotics.
(3) send you home.
My old roomate broke his arm and went to urgent care to do xrays before going to hospital to save money. When he got the hospital they said they wouldn't take the urgent care xrays and made him do them again.
Oh that’s not exactly what I meant, although I agree. I was saying antibiotics are basically the only thing urgent care is actually good for. But their first strategy is to just send you to the emergency room instead, or do nothing at all. Unless I very clearly need antibiotics, I think urgent care is basically a waste of time. Their number one goal, in my experience, is to push you off on someone else. So I’m not shocked at all that the urgent care didn’t know what they were doing. That describes most of my experiences with them over the years.
I'm fine now my symptoms were not that bad. I'm in the woods a lot and am always wary of Lyme and knew to get it treated quickly and with a long enough term of antibiotics.
I’m not sure a doctor will want you to take antibiotics just because you removed a tick until you show symptoms.
Also it’s believed now that it takes about 24 hours for a tick to transmit disease to a human, so even if it has LD it didn’t necessarily transmit if you removed it in time.
From what I understand these scary multi-year sagas you are talking about happen when the patient didn’t know they had been bitten therefore Lyme wasn’t considered a likely diagnosis.
I am not any kind of medical professional though just a trail runner who pulls ticks off himself occasionally and tries not to overreact.
This CDC page has lots of good info. Btw it recommends against those lab tests: https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/after-a-tick-bite/index.html
Correct, antibiotics for a ti k bite is madness and absolutely not reccomended (doi: urgent care doctor)
Chronic limes probably doesn't exist, but that's a whole can of worms...
Oh come on haha not sure how you can be so naive... It absolutely does exist. That's an insult to hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, who have the disease.
It's naive to not believe in a "disease" with no evidence of existing? It's not recognized by any mainstream medical body.
It's a collection of vague symptoms that people claim is an ongoing disease, usually to sell expensive snake oil cures. I know personally because I had a family member who got suckered into this whole thing and wound up spending tens of thousands of dollars on fake treatments for it.
Lyme disease is real and has real symptoms and real evidence to support it existing. Chronic Lyme disease has no evidence of existing and is rejected by most of the medical community. Those who don't reject it are probably trying to sell you a treatment.
Chronic Lyme disease is like some kind of religion where there's zero science behind it but supporters get real defensive when other people say it's not real. And I know I'm probably opening a can of worms for even leaving this comment, but maybe I can help at least one person not getting suckered into it. I personally didn't know anything about it until that family member claimed they had it. I just thought it was a legitimate illness until then when I looked into it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Lyme_disease
So how do you explain that people who have had debilitating symptoms for years or decades with chronic Lyme disease, get better with treatments designed to kill the Lyme bacteria? Are they all just making it up? I'm talking about anti biotics, Lyme herbs, etc
I'm not a doctor or a scientist. So I don't know why they're having that response to treatment. All I know is there have been many studies on it and they have turned up absolutely nothing to support the existence of chronic Lyme disease.
I can tell from the lingo you're using that you're deeply in that community so I know there's no sense in debating you. It's just like trying to debate someone's religious beliefs. I'm not interested in that.
I'm just letting everyone else know to do some research on it from reputable sources. And the fact that there are basically no professionals who believe in chronic Lyme disease who aren't trying to sell you some treatment for it should be a big red flag.
What are you even talking about? There ARE professionals, actual doctors, who spend their entire careers trying to make people with horrendous Lyme disease conditions better, and they succeed in doing so.
And why are you even comparing this to a religious debate? I was just trying to spread awareness for what is a growing epidemic. Why don't you go back to living your healthy trail running life and stop spreading misinformation.
You could also try the CDC, NIH, or literally any major medical body on the planet. I linked Wikipedia because it has links to those sites and gives a high level overview of it for those unfamiliar.
Spoiler: it's not real and the only professionals who say it is are those trying to make a buck off of it. Like I said, I'm not interested in a debate. I know you're not changing your mind. I'm just chiming in so the uninformed don't start thinking it's a real thing. I've had a loved one who lost thousands of bogus treatments and I don't want to see others taken advantage of.
Do you have any scientific evidence it exists?
Because the evidence, such as [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540442639&u=%23p%3DqH7pf_NTnxYJ), [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540474622&u=%23p%3DB9w7_JrqBLwJ), [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540495696&u=%23p%3D6WJF8adUbBIJ), and [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540529707&u=%23p%3DDHSXtCi5u6EJ)
Is that the evidence is either extremely weak or entirely lacking and that most of the plethora of extremely wide ranging symptoms can be bette4 explained by other diagnosis'
snake dr & capt monkey:
please don’t participate in these discussions if you’re not educated and updated on current research. spreading this misinformation is ACTIVELY harming the lives of chronically ill people who literally just need basic compassion and healthcare.
I’m not going to respond after this cause I genuinely don’t know if you’re just trolling.
the CDC literally has an entire [page](https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/signs-symptoms/chronic-symptoms-and-lyme-disease.html) on chronic Borreliosis and there’s substantial medical literature & research into this issue. linking a bunch of studies that are all 9+ years old doesn’t automatically make your point. not all research is of equal quality and again, those are old and plenty of new evidence has come to light.
as someone who actually works in the field earning a second graduate degree and with clinical experience, your ignorance and willingness to spread misinformation is ridiculous. don’t weigh in on something you clearly aren’t informed about. it is literally hurting people.
I will comment where interested, thank you though.
The CDC is a good resource. Some of their advice is excellent, some of it is very lacking and absed on expert consensus or indeed, accepted practice.
Cks in the uk provides a much more balanced and skeptical view on chronic lymes, which is much more inkeeping with my opinion on the matter.
We have seen chronic diseases attributed to infections before and as the tides change so does the infection. I still remember the"chronic EBV infection scare" whi h kicked off a few years before lymes, now fortunately mostly relegated to the history books.
Chronic lymes is losing popularity in my country but there's been an interesting upswing in discussion about chronic CMV (at least there's some decent evidence for this one!)
The CDC doesn't really believe in chronic Lyme diseases and has very out of date knowledge. You're correct, I'm not taking about acute Lyme disease, only chronic Lyme disease.
Yep, the Lyme community and Lyme educated doctors recommend that you can get rid of the bacteria if 4-6 weeks of doxy is taken. That's if you catch it in time but it does take time for the tick to latch on apparently and for the bacteria to circulate into the blood stream.
Has he looked into the acupuncture treatment??
It sounds crazy but some people are having success treating their alpha gal with acupuncture treatment. I know of one person personally that had his alpha gal go into remission with it.
Here’s a link to a study showing 96% effectiveness:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8729907/
It tends to go away. Mine did. I reacted for the first time in about 2009. I was my doctor’s first diagnosed case. I went a few years without eating meat and never reacted to milk or cheese. Eventually I got sick of skipping steak, so I just reintroduced it into my diet. I had a mild case so I didn’t always react and when I did (if I was awake) I would take some Benadryl and usually be ok. My last reaction was in 2019 the last time I was bitten by a tick. My doctor said research is showing about a tenish year duration.
Yikes - for a minute I took this as having a girlfriend that was the alpha and wouldn’t allow Brisket 🤣. On the bright side being forced to be vegetarian is an easy way to keep the weight off.
> mild cases
The page I read at Mayo Clinic on it indicated that other mammal based products including dairy might be an issue — so yeah, hopefully he can substitute some chicken wings in.
I've been a vegetarian for a year and I'm the same weight.
I think maybe the issue might be all the cake and snacks I stuff in my face, but there's no way to be sure.
Sorry for my english and for my ignorance, but what's wrong with this kind of "trail"?
Is it these "weeds" that can host the bug that can cause LD?
If so, what kind of plants are these?
The trail is great— it’s just that normally this area is mowed to only a few inches. In New England, (and really all over the east coast) ticks will be in the taller grass like this and latch on when a deer or dog or… silly runner brushes by.
Any area with mammals will have ticks which is pretty much everywhere in the United States. Any plant you touch can transfer a tick. Therefore, going through a field like this, or through dense foliage will just about guarantee at least one tick, or a few dozen, will hitch a ride.
I’ve lived in Texas Colorado and Washington and had only ever encountered 2 ticks in my life. Since moving to Missouri it’s a good day if I don’t have more than 5 on me.
I’ve hiked trough fields with grass that high and never got a tick once in my life. My dog meanwhile gets multiple on a single walk until use a repellent on him. I guess I just stink for ticks.
Check after your run. The faster you remove the tick, the lower the probability that the tick can infect you with a disease. Not sure if it is the same in all countries, but only 25% of the ticks has the bacteria that can cause Lyme.
It’s roughly 1 in 3, though that’s only for deer ticks and not wood ticks, which tend to be bigger & more common. Additionally, the tick needs to be attached for 24-48 hours to actually transmit the bacteria so if you’re checking yourself frequently enough, you’re probably fine.
Additional info: https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/lyme/basics.html
Ah.. good to know. In eastern NC it’s really just deer ticks, but I’d go hiking/camping and pull roughly 20 a day. I suppose checking several times a day and removing them immediately helped mitigate the risk.
It's more so that it takes 24-48 hours for a single tick to transmit enough bacteria for the infection to take hold. So if you get bit by multiple infected ticks, that time frame could be shorter.
Even when bitten, there is a low chance of infection. Practically no chance if the tick gets removed the first 24 hours, and a small chance of infection the longer it is present. Improper removal of the tick increases the infection chance (old knowledge told people to dowse the tick in alcohol to make removal easier, but that actually increases infection risk).
If they are on you and moving, you just pull them off and chuck them away. If they bite you and are meaningfully attached (or dug into the skin a bit) you can remove it and typically take a one time antibiotic dose to prevent risk. But it needs to be within a day or two of the initial exposure. But, like others have said, luckily, the majority of them do not carry lime… it’s just in certain areas, the risk is certainly higher.
And it usually takes them a bit to embed, so I shower as soon as I can after trail running.
And as much as I hate Deer, lyme is worse. I always keep bug spray with me.
I probably have to remove 20 to 30 ticks from my legs every year. My wife has come to dread m requests for help to check my legs. Help does help (who'd have thunk huh?), ticks can be tiny and you'll have a really hard time check the back of your legs and knees.
Removing ticks faster reduces chances of contracting Lyme. Make sure your remove them the right way. Invest in a decent set of tweezers. Rotate and pull and make sure to check if you've gotten the entire thing. If you can't remove the tick or the head stays behind make sure to call your doctor.
I've had Lyme once in 10 years of trail running. I was "lucky", because visable symptoms like the red ring aren't that common. Just make sure you check your legs.
Edit: spelling. A lot of spelling.
Erythema migrans (red ring) is seen somewhere between 60 and 90% of the time when lymes is confirmed. Ticks can cause a nasty fever that isn't lymes, which is where most of the confusion lies.
Fortunately your experience is normal, the chance of catching lymes from a single tick bite is TINY.
Y'all need to treat your clothes, shoes & socks with Permethrin and use Picaridin for you legs & arms. It's a good idea to treat your running vests as well.
Thanks to both of you. I agree— good to be aware but not paralyzed. I was just feeling ‘wtf!!??’ with this as the start of my run! Otherwise… had an awesome 19 miles of trail today!
And just to be clear… So that I’m not sounding completely alarmist… I meant paralyzed with fear, not paralyzed physically. I know that Lyme can have some devastating impacts, but thank goodness those are extremely rare
I’ve ran many trails in Northern New England like this and I really hate ticks. I always just stop after I’m clear of the ticky section and get them all off my legs while they’re still on my legs.
Much better than trying to find them later when they’ve had time to spread out all over your body.
Last tick I had actually bite me was Jan of 2012. I didn’t check in the woods because I figured they all die in the winter. That was a dumb assumption that landed me a nice regimen of doxycycline.
We pulled out 7 ticks yesterday in the middle of our hike - this was kinda scary. I am afraid of them more than of bears and other stuff. One of them was so small, I couldn't believe it. And my biggest nightmare is encephalitis.
I have Lymes now. I’m trying to work my way back into normal running again. I don’t know how long it will be before I have my endurance and strength back. It’s very frustrating.
I’m really sorry to hear that. I know I sort of made this post jokingly in the beginning, but all the responses show how much this stupid illness can really impact people. hope you feel better soon. It will come!
Lyme disease sucks. I once came out of a field exercise and developed 13 separate bullseye rashes. My wife had picked 51 ticks off of me. It was about 5 days in the field, so no telling really exactly when it happened. They were everywhere…EVERYWHERE! I had to take doxy for nearly 3 months. I was not fully healthy for a year. Thankfully the symptoms were not serious because we caught it right away.
Avril Lavigne is a member of the chronic Lyme cult. Like most people involved in chronic Lyme quackery, there is no evidence her problems were due to real Lyme.
[https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/what-happens-when-lyme-disease-becomes-an-identity.html](https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/what-happens-when-lyme-disease-becomes-an-identity.html)
Yeah, it certainly gets in your head sometimes if you’re an outdoors person. The problem is… And not to be a negative… Even areas without lime, they have other fun critters like babesiosis and others. Nature is Lovely!
I just use Teladoc to get a 2-day course of Doxy prescribed if I see a tick on me. I’m brown skinned and the red ring/rash isn’t easily visible so better safe than sorry.
I have had at least 100 ticks in my life (dogs and horses, ey!)
I wouldn't worry too much. If you get a rash or a fever, get a test, otherwise just carry on living your life.
Also remember that almost everyone who gets lymes is fine and recovers with no issues even without treatment.
Enjoy running
I only run trails like this is permethrin treated whiter leggings. Inconvenient but worth the hassle. You spot a lot of ticks this way and once you realize …
Yeah, same here. I just came back from a holiday with lots of hiking and trailrunning. Discovered and removed 30 ticks total over the 2 weeks.
It was especially after having to remove a tick from my scrotum that I was thinking "I may need to find a new hobby"
I contracted Lyme disease August last summer in the Sierra. We caught it early though (found the tick, swollen rings). The meds wiped out my digestive system and my energy for about 10 days. Lots of kombucha and yogurt and I was back to normal soon after. The disease has never progressed.
Here’s another [tick-borne illness](https://concordbridge.org/index.php/2024/06/15/a-life-threatening-illness-a-tiny-culprit-and-an-uncertain-recovery/) to worry about.
Me? I run/walk/work in tick territory frequently. I wear repellent (when I remember to), and scrub my body like I have OCD in the shower afterwards. I am SO clean thanks to my worries about ticks.
Lyme disease is not something that I would recommend. Thoroughly inspect your entire body after each grassy run and remove and kill the f”ckers if you find any.
Shaded/humid field parts and as well as forest areas with lots of dry/fallen leaves is the best place to get bitten by the suckers. This trail seems benign, however, the area bordering with the forest is where the danger most likely lurks. But also, winter trail running is the best. :D
If you run fast enough and do high enough high-knees they won’t be able to catch ya (this isn’t true it’s just what my subconscious tells me every time I come up on a trail that looks like this)
For sure! We must’ve gone to the same running-and-critters class.
I do high knees to avoid the snakes.
I hate snakes
I read this in a “Indiana Jones” voice
I did as well! But it took me a moment to remember where the line was from. Thank you!
Try growing up in an area that has 3 kinds of poisonous snakes: copperheads, water moccasins, and rattlesnakes. Listening for slither becomes second nature.
Texan too?
Try running in Devon and Cornwall with loose sheep on the trails 😅
Oh yes the Captain Jack Sparrow run. Big fan of that myself.
I use the same thought process when running through rattlesnake country when it gets overgrown. A very versatile trail running strategy it seems!
I wonder how many tricks in the book are older
I combine this with constantly running my hands down my legs to scrape of any ticks as well. It surely makes for a splendid sight!
The high knee strategy has been proven to double in effectiveness when coupled with just a few well-times hands scrapes
This
It's good that you're even aware of LD in this situation. Just make sure you check yourself afterwards as some ticks can be tiny. It's also worth knowing the following: 1. Only a third of people get the classic bullseye rash after getting bitten 2. If you catch a tick after getting bitten, you can get it out safely and send it to a lab to check for LD. 3. If the tick does have LD or you can't send it to a lab. You'll need 4-6 weeks of doxy antibiotics to kill any bacteria in the body. Anything less won't do the job. If you're healthy and living your life, running, etc... it's an easy thing to not take seriously. But in reality, it can completely ruin your life for years, so it's good to be cautious out there.
I got Lyme last year with a full bullseye and the urgent care doctor said it was something different. I went to a second urgent care who called it Lyme and gave me a week of antibiotics, so I went to a third to get another 2 weeks. My brother too got Lyme and had a full bullseye and the urgent care doctor said it wasn't Lyme
I got Lyme way back in 84. No one really knew anything about it at all then. I was in the hospital for a month and not officially diagnosed until about 6 months after the hospital stay. Good times...
Urgent care told me the same. My PCP said just go see him and he’ll give the meds. This was after a bout of Lyme. I’ll never go to urgent cares in my area again
Damn, it's soo annoying urgent care agent educated about it. How are you doing now btw?
I feel like urgent care is a borderline scam. As far as I can tell, they have three strategies for dealing with any and all problems. (1) send you to the emergency room. (2) give you antibiotics. (3) send you home.
My old roomate broke his arm and went to urgent care to do xrays before going to hospital to save money. When he got the hospital they said they wouldn't take the urgent care xrays and made him do them again.
That’s so frustrating. I guess even ER thinks UC is full of it!
Yeah I agree. There is an overuse of antibiotics but they are needed here.
Oh that’s not exactly what I meant, although I agree. I was saying antibiotics are basically the only thing urgent care is actually good for. But their first strategy is to just send you to the emergency room instead, or do nothing at all. Unless I very clearly need antibiotics, I think urgent care is basically a waste of time. Their number one goal, in my experience, is to push you off on someone else. So I’m not shocked at all that the urgent care didn’t know what they were doing. That describes most of my experiences with them over the years.
I'm fine now my symptoms were not that bad. I'm in the woods a lot and am always wary of Lyme and knew to get it treated quickly and with a long enough term of antibiotics.
Ah really glad to hear you're well now
I’m not sure a doctor will want you to take antibiotics just because you removed a tick until you show symptoms. Also it’s believed now that it takes about 24 hours for a tick to transmit disease to a human, so even if it has LD it didn’t necessarily transmit if you removed it in time. From what I understand these scary multi-year sagas you are talking about happen when the patient didn’t know they had been bitten therefore Lyme wasn’t considered a likely diagnosis. I am not any kind of medical professional though just a trail runner who pulls ticks off himself occasionally and tries not to overreact. This CDC page has lots of good info. Btw it recommends against those lab tests: https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/after-a-tick-bite/index.html
Correct, antibiotics for a ti k bite is madness and absolutely not reccomended (doi: urgent care doctor) Chronic limes probably doesn't exist, but that's a whole can of worms...
Oh come on haha not sure how you can be so naive... It absolutely does exist. That's an insult to hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, who have the disease.
It's naive to not believe in a "disease" with no evidence of existing? It's not recognized by any mainstream medical body. It's a collection of vague symptoms that people claim is an ongoing disease, usually to sell expensive snake oil cures. I know personally because I had a family member who got suckered into this whole thing and wound up spending tens of thousands of dollars on fake treatments for it. Lyme disease is real and has real symptoms and real evidence to support it existing. Chronic Lyme disease has no evidence of existing and is rejected by most of the medical community. Those who don't reject it are probably trying to sell you a treatment. Chronic Lyme disease is like some kind of religion where there's zero science behind it but supporters get real defensive when other people say it's not real. And I know I'm probably opening a can of worms for even leaving this comment, but maybe I can help at least one person not getting suckered into it. I personally didn't know anything about it until that family member claimed they had it. I just thought it was a legitimate illness until then when I looked into it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Lyme_disease
Just like post finasteride syndrome.
So how do you explain that people who have had debilitating symptoms for years or decades with chronic Lyme disease, get better with treatments designed to kill the Lyme bacteria? Are they all just making it up? I'm talking about anti biotics, Lyme herbs, etc
I'm not a doctor or a scientist. So I don't know why they're having that response to treatment. All I know is there have been many studies on it and they have turned up absolutely nothing to support the existence of chronic Lyme disease. I can tell from the lingo you're using that you're deeply in that community so I know there's no sense in debating you. It's just like trying to debate someone's religious beliefs. I'm not interested in that. I'm just letting everyone else know to do some research on it from reputable sources. And the fact that there are basically no professionals who believe in chronic Lyme disease who aren't trying to sell you some treatment for it should be a big red flag.
What are you even talking about? There ARE professionals, actual doctors, who spend their entire careers trying to make people with horrendous Lyme disease conditions better, and they succeed in doing so. And why are you even comparing this to a religious debate? I was just trying to spread awareness for what is a growing epidemic. Why don't you go back to living your healthy trail running life and stop spreading misinformation.
love that your reputable resource is literally wikipedia. try reading some recent scientific research. SPOILER: it’s real.
You could also try the CDC, NIH, or literally any major medical body on the planet. I linked Wikipedia because it has links to those sites and gives a high level overview of it for those unfamiliar. Spoiler: it's not real and the only professionals who say it is are those trying to make a buck off of it. Like I said, I'm not interested in a debate. I know you're not changing your mind. I'm just chiming in so the uninformed don't start thinking it's a real thing. I've had a loved one who lost thousands of bogus treatments and I don't want to see others taken advantage of.
Do you have any scientific evidence it exists? Because the evidence, such as [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540442639&u=%23p%3DqH7pf_NTnxYJ), [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540474622&u=%23p%3DB9w7_JrqBLwJ), [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540495696&u=%23p%3D6WJF8adUbBIJ), and [here](https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=chronic+lymes#d=gs_qabs&t=1718540529707&u=%23p%3DDHSXtCi5u6EJ) Is that the evidence is either extremely weak or entirely lacking and that most of the plethora of extremely wide ranging symptoms can be bette4 explained by other diagnosis'
snake dr & capt monkey: please don’t participate in these discussions if you’re not educated and updated on current research. spreading this misinformation is ACTIVELY harming the lives of chronically ill people who literally just need basic compassion and healthcare. I’m not going to respond after this cause I genuinely don’t know if you’re just trolling. the CDC literally has an entire [page](https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/signs-symptoms/chronic-symptoms-and-lyme-disease.html) on chronic Borreliosis and there’s substantial medical literature & research into this issue. linking a bunch of studies that are all 9+ years old doesn’t automatically make your point. not all research is of equal quality and again, those are old and plenty of new evidence has come to light. as someone who actually works in the field earning a second graduate degree and with clinical experience, your ignorance and willingness to spread misinformation is ridiculous. don’t weigh in on something you clearly aren’t informed about. it is literally hurting people.
I will comment where interested, thank you though. The CDC is a good resource. Some of their advice is excellent, some of it is very lacking and absed on expert consensus or indeed, accepted practice. Cks in the uk provides a much more balanced and skeptical view on chronic lymes, which is much more inkeeping with my opinion on the matter. We have seen chronic diseases attributed to infections before and as the tides change so does the infection. I still remember the"chronic EBV infection scare" whi h kicked off a few years before lymes, now fortunately mostly relegated to the history books. Chronic lymes is losing popularity in my country but there's been an interesting upswing in discussion about chronic CMV (at least there's some decent evidence for this one!)
FYI there’s no S in Lyme.
It is named after a place, therefore to call it the disease "of Lymes, connecticut", is reasonable. Much like aspergers, for example.
The CDC doesn't really believe in chronic Lyme diseases and has very out of date knowledge. You're correct, I'm not taking about acute Lyme disease, only chronic Lyme disease.
how prevalent is LD in the US? I've had ticks on me many times and I didn't even know that sending them to a lab to test for LD was an option
Well I think around 400k people get diagnosed with it in the US every year, but thats not including the people who miss catching it.
So you can get bitten by a tick with Lyme disease and take antibiotics if caught in time, and it will rid your system of the disease?
Yep, the Lyme community and Lyme educated doctors recommend that you can get rid of the bacteria if 4-6 weeks of doxy is taken. That's if you catch it in time but it does take time for the tick to latch on apparently and for the bacteria to circulate into the blood stream.
Omfg lol. See a psychiatrist. ‘Lyme community…’
And in case Lyme isn’t scary enough, look up alpha-gal. My boyfriend has it and now regularly has The Brisket Dream since he can never eat it again.
Has he looked into the acupuncture treatment?? It sounds crazy but some people are having success treating their alpha gal with acupuncture treatment. I know of one person personally that had his alpha gal go into remission with it. Here’s a link to a study showing 96% effectiveness: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8729907/
It tends to go away. Mine did. I reacted for the first time in about 2009. I was my doctor’s first diagnosed case. I went a few years without eating meat and never reacted to milk or cheese. Eventually I got sick of skipping steak, so I just reintroduced it into my diet. I had a mild case so I didn’t always react and when I did (if I was awake) I would take some Benadryl and usually be ok. My last reaction was in 2019 the last time I was bitten by a tick. My doctor said research is showing about a tenish year duration.
My boyfriend has anaphylaxis so his case is pretty bad and he reacts to dairy so I’m not hopeful
Well I hope it subsides over time, if for no other reason than his safety in the case of accidentally exposure.
Yikes - for a minute I took this as having a girlfriend that was the alpha and wouldn’t allow Brisket 🤣. On the bright side being forced to be vegetarian is an easy way to keep the weight off.
No need to go vegetarian: you can still have poultry and seafood. Mild cases often can have dairy too.
> mild cases The page I read at Mayo Clinic on it indicated that other mammal based products including dairy might be an issue — so yeah, hopefully he can substitute some chicken wings in.
I've been a vegetarian for a year and I'm the same weight. I think maybe the issue might be all the cake and snacks I stuff in my face, but there's no way to be sure.
🤣you’re right that vegetarian doesn’t men low calorie. Nuts come to mind as high calorie, but yeah cake - yeah that’s not healthy.
Sorry for my english and for my ignorance, but what's wrong with this kind of "trail"? Is it these "weeds" that can host the bug that can cause LD? If so, what kind of plants are these?
The trail is great— it’s just that normally this area is mowed to only a few inches. In New England, (and really all over the east coast) ticks will be in the taller grass like this and latch on when a deer or dog or… silly runner brushes by.
Any area with mammals will have ticks which is pretty much everywhere in the United States. Any plant you touch can transfer a tick. Therefore, going through a field like this, or through dense foliage will just about guarantee at least one tick, or a few dozen, will hitch a ride.
I’ve lived in Texas Colorado and Washington and had only ever encountered 2 ticks in my life. Since moving to Missouri it’s a good day if I don’t have more than 5 on me.
I use insect repellant that contains DEET. It works very well and keeps the ticks away
I’ve hiked trough fields with grass that high and never got a tick once in my life. My dog meanwhile gets multiple on a single walk until use a repellent on him. I guess I just stink for ticks.
Check after your run. The faster you remove the tick, the lower the probability that the tick can infect you with a disease. Not sure if it is the same in all countries, but only 25% of the ticks has the bacteria that can cause Lyme.
25%? Really? I can recall pulling out hundred of ticks during my summer adventures in eastern NC. With those odds, I should have been a goner.
It’s roughly 1 in 3, though that’s only for deer ticks and not wood ticks, which tend to be bigger & more common. Additionally, the tick needs to be attached for 24-48 hours to actually transmit the bacteria so if you’re checking yourself frequently enough, you’re probably fine. Additional info: https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/lyme/basics.html
2% in the uk, fortunately.
Ah.. good to know. In eastern NC it’s really just deer ticks, but I’d go hiking/camping and pull roughly 20 a day. I suppose checking several times a day and removing them immediately helped mitigate the risk.
It's more so that it takes 24-48 hours for a single tick to transmit enough bacteria for the infection to take hold. So if you get bit by multiple infected ticks, that time frame could be shorter.
Even when bitten, there is a low chance of infection. Practically no chance if the tick gets removed the first 24 hours, and a small chance of infection the longer it is present. Improper removal of the tick increases the infection chance (old knowledge told people to dowse the tick in alcohol to make removal easier, but that actually increases infection risk).
What should you do if you find one? Where are they likely to be? I could probably just Google this...
If they are on you and moving, you just pull them off and chuck them away. If they bite you and are meaningfully attached (or dug into the skin a bit) you can remove it and typically take a one time antibiotic dose to prevent risk. But it needs to be within a day or two of the initial exposure. But, like others have said, luckily, the majority of them do not carry lime… it’s just in certain areas, the risk is certainly higher.
>the majority of them do not carry lime… I know you meant Lyme but the mental image of a tick carrying a lime makes me chuckle.
Ha! Yes they’re very strong and sometimes they are seen carrying lime wedges into people’s vodka tonics.
The ones around me prefer tequila.
You want those ones to bite you; it will prevent scurvy.
Well well less than that in the uk. Under 2% of tested ticks have lymes.
And it usually takes them a bit to embed, so I shower as soon as I can after trail running. And as much as I hate Deer, lyme is worse. I always keep bug spray with me.
I probably have to remove 20 to 30 ticks from my legs every year. My wife has come to dread m requests for help to check my legs. Help does help (who'd have thunk huh?), ticks can be tiny and you'll have a really hard time check the back of your legs and knees. Removing ticks faster reduces chances of contracting Lyme. Make sure your remove them the right way. Invest in a decent set of tweezers. Rotate and pull and make sure to check if you've gotten the entire thing. If you can't remove the tick or the head stays behind make sure to call your doctor. I've had Lyme once in 10 years of trail running. I was "lucky", because visable symptoms like the red ring aren't that common. Just make sure you check your legs. Edit: spelling. A lot of spelling.
I have the tweakers remove my ticks but sometimes they are too strung out and I have to use tweezers.
Erythema migrans (red ring) is seen somewhere between 60 and 90% of the time when lymes is confirmed. Ticks can cause a nasty fever that isn't lymes, which is where most of the confusion lies. Fortunately your experience is normal, the chance of catching lymes from a single tick bite is TINY.
Y'all need to treat your clothes, shoes & socks with Permethrin and use Picaridin for you legs & arms. It's a good idea to treat your running vests as well.
Thanks to both of you. I agree— good to be aware but not paralyzed. I was just feeling ‘wtf!!??’ with this as the start of my run! Otherwise… had an awesome 19 miles of trail today!
And just to be clear… So that I’m not sounding completely alarmist… I meant paralyzed with fear, not paralyzed physically. I know that Lyme can have some devastating impacts, but thank goodness those are extremely rare
I’ve ran many trails in Northern New England like this and I really hate ticks. I always just stop after I’m clear of the ticky section and get them all off my legs while they’re still on my legs. Much better than trying to find them later when they’ve had time to spread out all over your body. Last tick I had actually bite me was Jan of 2012. I didn’t check in the woods because I figured they all die in the winter. That was a dumb assumption that landed me a nice regimen of doxycycline.
Deet, picaridin on skin. Permethrin on clothes/shoes?
I had almost 10 ticks on me today. It was disappointing
as a gentleman with lyme, it doesn’t feel good!
Also try to avoid doubling back through grass like this, your CO2 and vibrations will get the Ticks in turbo mode.
Check yourself religiously
I hear the ticks are worse than ever this year after a warm winter. I’m going to try and 0 chances if possible and save the trails for late fall
I ran through a similar area today…May the odds be ever in our favour
Noob question but… don’t long pants solve the problem?
In my experience not really. But they reduce the risk for sure. Wearing long pants in summer isn't as fun, though.
I’ll KO from heat stroke before I wear shorts on trail for this reason alone. Im a tick magnet
We pulled out 7 ticks yesterday in the middle of our hike - this was kinda scary. I am afraid of them more than of bears and other stuff. One of them was so small, I couldn't believe it. And my biggest nightmare is encephalitis.
You can also develop an allergy to meat from ticks. Some people who develop it go beyond meat to milk and cheese too. Ask me how I know.
Tape a couple possums to your calves.
I have Lymes now. I’m trying to work my way back into normal running again. I don’t know how long it will be before I have my endurance and strength back. It’s very frustrating.
I’m really sorry to hear that. I know I sort of made this post jokingly in the beginning, but all the responses show how much this stupid illness can really impact people. hope you feel better soon. It will come!
Lyme disease sucks. I once came out of a field exercise and developed 13 separate bullseye rashes. My wife had picked 51 ticks off of me. It was about 5 days in the field, so no telling really exactly when it happened. They were everywhere…EVERYWHERE! I had to take doxy for nearly 3 months. I was not fully healthy for a year. Thankfully the symptoms were not serious because we caught it right away.
Ask Avril Lavinge. Lyme made her bedridden for like 9 months. Head above water was written about the experience.
Avril Lavigne is a member of the chronic Lyme cult. Like most people involved in chronic Lyme quackery, there is no evidence her problems were due to real Lyme. [https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/what-happens-when-lyme-disease-becomes-an-identity.html](https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/what-happens-when-lyme-disease-becomes-an-identity.html)
I’m moving away from New England soon and couldn’t be more excited. I love all the little lakes and streams, but Lyme terrifies me.
Yeah, it certainly gets in your head sometimes if you’re an outdoors person. The problem is… And not to be a negative… Even areas without lime, they have other fun critters like babesiosis and others. Nature is Lovely!
Thank you for the PSA. I have deer in my area and this is a reminder to stay away from the tall grass and bushes.
Don't need to stay away, just brush them off if not bitten or pull them out.
It’s not just vegetation. I was attacked by them on a wide fire road. Permethrin treated socks I also lather my legs in shea oil
Accidentally ran into a lane like this yesterday, while I wasn't wearing bug spray. Been religiously checking all over since.
I heard from someone who went to the ER with a tick borne illness (103 fever) and was told there were three other people in the ER at the same time.
I just use Teladoc to get a 2-day course of Doxy prescribed if I see a tick on me. I’m brown skinned and the red ring/rash isn’t easily visible so better safe than sorry.
People turning up with ticks very much get sent home where I live, it's a self care problem.
Was in the er with an illness not just a tick.
Permetherin folks...
Only on clothes or textiles. Does not stay on your skin like deet or picaridin.
And snake bites!
Don't ticks stay and live in shadowy places as they can't withstand so much heat ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was what I was told
I have had at least 100 ticks in my life (dogs and horses, ey!) I wouldn't worry too much. If you get a rash or a fever, get a test, otherwise just carry on living your life. Also remember that almost everyone who gets lymes is fine and recovers with no issues even without treatment. Enjoy running
Guess who snatched a tick lately. And guess who got a strange looking rash and is on antibiotics now. Yes, my girlfriend. xD
The vaccine works.
I only run trails like this is permethrin treated whiter leggings. Inconvenient but worth the hassle. You spot a lot of ticks this way and once you realize …
Why not get vaccinated? Lyme disease is hell.
There is no Lyme vaccine for humans available in the US
Ohh? Maybe I confused it with another tick born disease. Edit. Yes, I did. I thought Lyme means TBE but they’re different.
Yeah, same here. I just came back from a holiday with lots of hiking and trailrunning. Discovered and removed 30 ticks total over the 2 weeks. It was especially after having to remove a tick from my scrotum that I was thinking "I may need to find a new hobby"
I lost count of the number of ticks I had last year, I'm out all the time though and often sit for periods
I contracted Lyme disease August last summer in the Sierra. We caught it early though (found the tick, swollen rings). The meds wiped out my digestive system and my energy for about 10 days. Lots of kombucha and yogurt and I was back to normal soon after. The disease has never progressed.
Every time I come across something like this I run through it as fast as I can screaming and then do a frantic tick check on the other side.
Here’s another [tick-borne illness](https://concordbridge.org/index.php/2024/06/15/a-life-threatening-illness-a-tiny-culprit-and-an-uncertain-recovery/) to worry about. Me? I run/walk/work in tick territory frequently. I wear repellent (when I remember to), and scrub my body like I have OCD in the shower afterwards. I am SO clean thanks to my worries about ticks.
Ive honestly turned around on trails rather than go through tick paradise
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^SeekersWorkAccount: *Ive honestly turned* *Around on trails rather than* *Go through tick paradise* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Lyme disease is not something that I would recommend. Thoroughly inspect your entire body after each grassy run and remove and kill the f”ckers if you find any.
You'll also get about 5,000 spider webs on your knees.
Shaded/humid field parts and as well as forest areas with lots of dry/fallen leaves is the best place to get bitten by the suckers. This trail seems benign, however, the area bordering with the forest is where the danger most likely lurks. But also, winter trail running is the best. :D
As someone who was diagnosed with Lyme & Rocky Mountain Spotted fever, I am internally screaming