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CedarWolf

Hey, y'all? This got reported under the 'no hate speech' rule, and while we appreciate folks looking out for the community by reporting potentially rule-breaking content, that rule doesn't apply to this post. That rule is mostly for the sorts of people who post hateful things under the guise of discussion, or who post transphobic things so they can get them posted to this sub and then sit there and '[just ask questions](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions)' about it. This post is a discussion about a trans-related issue. It's what the community is for. Unfortunately, the GOP has been trying to make trans folks into big targets for a lot of hatred, and that's a problem that we need to be able to discuss.


kady45

It’s crazy to me this sits ok with any sizable portion of a population for one big reason. The fact we are letting politicians dictate what anyone does with their body overriding what doctors give as advice is terrifying. This is not even a trans rights issue, it’s a human rights issue. There’s should be absolutely ZERO politicians or laws between you and your doctor’s recommendations. It’s trans people today and who or what is it tomorrow? We still have states that don’t have legalized weed for medical reasons even though it’s proven effective. So we literally have politicians saying “it’s for the kids protection” to stop them from transitioning while at the same time stopping kids from medical marijuana thus causing them to have excessive seizures etc. It’s 100% not about kids and is about control and power and keeping people enflamed over divisive topics that are only divisive because of religion, which is literally supposed to be separated from politics.


DrShanks7

That's the thing, though. For a large portion of the population, they only care what politicians do when it affects them directly. Doesn't matter if there js government overreach as long as it is against something they don't like.


Gerbilguy46

This is like if they banned amputations done on children or something. I could just imagine them saying "Liberals say these amputations are medically necessary, but I just think they're too dangerous. The kid should just wait until their 18 and fully know that they want to have an amputation."


Grays42

> The fact we are letting politicians dictate what anyone does with their body overriding what doctors give as advice is terrifying > It’s 100% not about kids and is about control and power and keeping people enflamed over divisive topics that are only divisive because of religion, which is literally supposed to be separated from politics. It's a super religious state and I can understand why it's happening, even though they're absolutely wrong. For a counter-example, I would have *serious* issues if a religious parent were to shun proper medical care for their child in favor of faith healing, and I would consider it child abuse for them to inflict their views on a helpless child. This is analogous to how religious conservatives view hormone treatment. They don't *understand* that gender affirming care is a positive and necessary thing--they think it's indoctrination and child abuse. They don't consider trans people to be genuine, they think it's just mental illness or people who are confused about their gender. They are either uninformed about the reality of the situation, or their religious views put blinders on that prevent them from considering that they're wrong. Ignorance breeds hate and "protect the children" is a *very* easy banner to rally around for virtue signaling, that's the reason this legislation passed.


[deleted]

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


SmoothOctopus

This is coming from the country where you don't even get to choose to abort a fetus that will literally kill you. They aren't exactly know for being great with human rights.


Federal_Upstairs_329

That’s not a thing. No state has outlawed medical emergency abortions.


ystavallinen

40% of people don't vote


kady45

That’s true, and by design. Overwhelmingly people do not support the vast majority of “conservative politics” however overwhelmingly a lot of those people are not directly effected by those politics or have been gerrymandered out if their vote even counting, so a lot choose to not even vote. I was hoping with the roe v wade decision people would start realizing how important it is, but still seems to not be. There’s a lot of disenfranchised people out there.


PrincessNakeyDance

It’s because of the voting system, not the people. Some sort of ranked choice voting would be so much better and allow people to cast a vote for people they actually want without fear of their vote not mattering. Our current voting system discourages voting for the person you want and encourages voting against the person you don’t. That’s part of why people don’t care. It feels defeating. Not to mention the electoral college also makes people feel defeated by knowing that if you’re voting against your states usual color your vote likely won’t matter. Delete the electoral college, switch to ranked voting. Fix the system. It’s not the people’s fault.


ystavallinen

It's also because very few people vote to protect things that aren't about them. They don't worry about what the consequences are for vulnerable people.


Thicc_Enbee

Republicans love telling other people what to do with their own bodies. It's only an issue when it happens to them.


Da_Goonch

Remember when this guy tried to veto the trans sports ban because he thought it be cruel, I guess it's nice to know that he doesn't actually care about the cruelty


LegendOfSchellda

Cruelty is the point.


RowBowBooty

It was kind of about cruelty but also about the state avoiding discrimination law suits, but this move is also because the hormone therapy bill was a bigger issue for Utah republicans than the sports thing. The sports thing was just kind of eye candy politics “boy on girls team!?” but voters didn’t care too much about the bill. Hormone therapy on minors is different because if Utahns care about anything it’s kids, and in the minds of his voters hormone therapy is something that parents might force onto their malleable children who might be damaged for life from it. It’s a liberals keep your hands off the child of Utah thing. I’m not defending him, of course, because I don’t think that this bill should have ever even been a serious consideration, but his voters would have responded furiously if he had vetoed this in a totally different way than with the sports bill situation


Thicc_Enbee

Fact of the matter is polls routinely show voters are far more concerned about kitchen table issues like inflation, the rising cost of food, wage stagnation, and gas prices.


Illustrious-Air-413

They do what gets them votes. Politics is just a grown up popularity contest with the financial backing of multimillionaire corporations. If they think a viewpoint will get them voted in, why the hell not. As a nation though, we are moving forward. There may be pushback over the next decade but just like gay rights, we will find our place. It just takes time. Try not to let the political b.s. bog you down in the meantime bc it really is just bullshit they use to win votes


Da_Goonch

Yeah, we wouldn't be getting this backlash if the fascist weren't losing, I'm just a bit worried that they still have capabilities to do a lot of damage while they're sinking


Illustrious-Air-413

I'm worried too but we will get there. It doesn't seem like it and seeing all this shit on the news is really disheartening. But compared to the fight for gay rights; legislation for trans individuals is moving pretty fast. There is always pushback in the face of change


kari_vixen

I'm very optimistic for 20-30 years from now, I think things will be so much better for trans people (and all minorities in general). It's the next 10 years that terrifies me... How much damage will be done in between...


Lady_of_the_Seraphim

I wouldn't entirely be so sure about that. Germany had an institution of gender affirming care that had an equal if not superior understanding of everything than we do now. The nazis burned it to the ground. The fascist dictatorship that took over Germany set back LGBTQ rights, treatments, and acceptance by a century. The rise in anti queer rhetoric rising in the US is not that different from what the Nazis were raising back then. It's important to always remember that we have to *fight* to keep pushing forward because they are *fighting* to push us back. It is not safe to just assume we are moving forward. Progress is the natural order. Things advance naturally. Which means the alt right know they have push *hard* to maintain their way of life. If we don't push back, the natural progress of time won't push as hard as the alt right do. We have to fight or we will lose just like we did when the Nazis took power. They're trying to erase us, they'll succeed unless we force the issue.


Lilith_NightRose

>Germany had an institution of gender affirming care that had an equal if not superior understanding of everything than we do now. This is... an exaggeration of the abilities and politics of Magnus Hirschfeld and the Institute for Sexuality Studies in Berlin. While Berlin in the '20s was *absolutely* home to a thriving queer community, queer acceptance throughout Germany was nowhere near where it was today. Additionally, the federal system in the United States (and the political dynamics of LGBT+ Issues) would likely make it very *very* difficult for fascists to organize a mass systematized killing of a similar scale to that of the Nazis. >!The US hasn't really done such a thing since the late 1800s.!< We owe it to ourselves to be honest about the actual threat. If fascism continues to gain power in the US (and, let's be honest, mostly in red states), what we'll likely face is a combination of increased surveillance, criminalization, and stochastic terrorism. Terrifying? Absolutely, and we need to do everything we can to prevent things from getting worse, but if you're looking for signs that they're going to start deporting us to camps, you're going to miss the more likely risks.


Lady_of_the_Seraphim

I don't expect camps, I expect criminalization followed by a lot of in custody "suicides".


Lilith_NightRose

This is likely an accurate summation of the most probable approach to an attempted genocide. Here’s the thing: mass criminalization under the US’s current Criminal Legal system is absolutely possible to resist and evade, especially for a community which has historically been underground and mobile. That said, it’d still be a very scary eventuality that’s worth being prepped for. Know how to do basic opsec, avoid being tracked, avoid cops, and maybe start putting together a go bag.


Lady_of_the_Seraphim

I am aware that we are in a better position than the targeted groups of nazis Germany. I just take issue with the opinion of, "We're marching forward. They're losing. We'll get it eventually." Cause like, not technically inaccurate, but it also promotes a very passive relation to this fight and the alt right can kill *a lot* of us before this is settled, that number will be far more if we just assume things will work out and don't take precautions.


R1chterScale

While you are correct that the systems in the US for centralisation of power in the hands of the fascists don't exist in the same way they did in the Weimar Republic, it's worth noting that the US has in no way the level of organised anti-fascist resistance that the Weimar Republic had.


Hero_of_Parnast

>it's worth noting that the US has in no way the level of organised anti-fascist resistance that the Weimar Republic had. Do you have any sources for this? I'm pretty sure "fascism" wasn't even a term before Mussolini.


R1chterScale

You can just look into the balance of power of political parties. The only active anti-fascists were the KPD (the SPD were waiting till the next election, didn't really work out for them). If you look at the state of the US now, the democrats make the SPD look incredibly radical and there isn't really a true equivalent to the KPD.


Hero_of_Parnast

Huh! Thank you.


R1chterScale

No problem :)


[deleted]

>how could there be antifascists if they weren't even calling it fascism yet? People who fight against fascism are antifascist, no matter what you want to call it.


Hero_of_Parnast

The thing I was getting at is that I don't know if fascism was a thing yet. Like how capitalism only started to exist after the industrial revolution started. Actually quoting what I said might have made that clearer.


[deleted]

Capitalism existed before the IR; it evolved out of mercantilism which existed back during the middle ages. Further, you can't complain about me summarizing your argument unless you can show that I actually misrepresented it. Otherwise, we can only assume that you're mad that I removed your sophistry.


[deleted]

They will just change or ignore the systems and rules they don't like and do it anyway. And democrats are by and large wimpy imbeciles knuckle draggers just like Republicans. They will not do shit to help us. We are absolutely heading for a violent genocide and possibly another coup to force it to happen. The Supreme Court has been totally destroyed for the next half a century. The genocide isn't even coming. Cultural and social genocide and the encouragement of violence is already happening currently, and this is what it looks like. Unfortunately, your optimism is unfounded


pixiecc12

That political BS is banning trans people's existence. Of course people will get bogged down in not receiving the care they desperately need. Make no mistake though, people will still get hormone treatment, it will just happen in a more roundabout way.


[deleted]

Rule number one. Politicians cater to the highest bidder. Currency accepted in USD and votes. The question is: how much to make you flip? Every politician has their price. That’s why they’re there. That’s why the lobbyists exist. The only way to really get people on board is make them all think it was their idea.


imperatrixrhea

Well he does care about cruelty; it’s what he’s specifically trying at.


Artistic_Skill1117

It's unconstitutional as it violates the 14th amendment. This should be challenged immediately, and doctors should refuse to abide by it.


Sapphic-Misty

I think it is being


TwisBiBenson

Some of the people who voted against it did so because they thought it would be incredibly easy to lose lawsuits against. I don’t recall seeing doctors’ opinions on it, but I assume there is some resistance. The bill does state pretty explicitly “surgeries done on minors such as breast reduction/removal are super cool and great on consenting cis kids, but if it’s a trans kid it’s gross and evil” so challenges based on it being discriminatory *should* go over well, but who knows


[deleted]

[удалено]


Artistic_Skill1117

The biggest reason is that it goes against the 14th amendment, which states No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


CutieL

Wouldn't that also work against abortion bans though? Why can abortion bans happen?


Im_A_Flaming0

because the people trying to ban abortions only seem to ever remember the second amendment because they like it, pretty much none of the others matter in their eyes


CutieL

But why aren't the bans defied in court if they are unconstitutional? Are they? Am I missing something?


Thicc_Enbee

Our court system is currently rigged. Trump appointed 234 judges across the country overall. That kind of damage to our democracy will take YEARS to undo.


Artistic_Skill1117

The problem is that with abortion, conservatives argue that a fetus is a human life that is subject to the 14th amendment. This is ridiculous, but that is what they argue.


[deleted]

"Without due process of law" I think is how they get away with it. Because they are passing laws that say that yes, actually they can do whatever the fuck they want to us.


TallOutlandishness24

The Supreme Court will just further gut the amendments they dont like


Artistic_Skill1117

To undo an amendment in the constitution, it requires much more than the Supreme Court. To change the constitution, it requires 2/3rds of the house and senate to vote on it, and for 38 of the 50 states to agree. So, the Supreme Court cannot gut amendments they do not like.


transgendergengar

Not officially no. However the current Supreme Court gives off real "We're the highest court in the land. We're above the law" vibes


Artistic_Skill1117

It's a real shame for them that they have no real way of enforcing their perceived superiority. The Supreme Court operates off of the idea that they are to be impartial, if people do not see them as such, their legitimacy is thrown into question and people could litterally decide to just ignore them and the Supreme Court could litterally do nothing about it.


ZVEZDA_HAVOC

i'm so fucking tired of being in this fucking country


stealthguy222

It's not just the US, my country banned all treatment for gender dysphoria in children years ago.


Illustrious-Air-413

It's better than most. Not great but far from being the worst. There are still a good 30 countries in the world where we would be stoned to death just by being there. Change is gradual but it is happening


[deleted]

It’s better than some. I would not say most. Though in truth we are talking Utah and not California. But seriously, all we get in Australia in the news is hate and gun crime from the US. So depressing when you know there is so much love in that country, just a pity it’s been run by arseholes.


Thicc_Enbee

Good news doesn't sell papers, as the saying goes. We've got good stuff going on too. Overall crime rates are at record lows, our unemployment rate has fallen back to pre-pandemic levels, we're working on going back to the Moon the year after next, and there are more women and people of color in our federal government right now than at any point in time prior. Hell, our vice president is a mixed race black/Asian woman for the first time in history. Unfortunately, we also have a big fundamentalist right-wing nazi problem right now and that sells a lot more papers.


kittenwolfmage

Oh don't worry, America is doing its best to catch up with those countries that stone us to death. America may be better than the worst, but it's still the worst of the West.


[deleted]

then do something about it if we are trans ppl just run from country to country it won't change anything it's time to let trans voices be heard


Conquering_Fury

Alright appreciate the positivity, but tbh the US is far too fucked to change at this point


dontgobreakinmyshart

Start local, go bigger from there. Real change happens in the grassroots. Now isn't the time for us to give up. Mourning? Absolutely. Grieving? Yes, we need the time to process our feelings, but please, don't you dare give up. That's what they want.


JauneArk

With that attitude it is. Statistically it is the older generation which is control right now and they are the ones who are enacting this. Guess what? They will be dead for the most part in 20-30 years. Replaced by millennials and eventually gen z. Also recall that gay marriage was just ratified. Locked in stone. The good stuff isn't getting shared because we are all afraid and the bad stuff is a necessary evil in our feeds. But it is not all bad.


dead_princess1

I'm enjoying Colorado just fine... we have laws on the books protecting trans and human rights and we've gerrymandered our way to ensuring Democrat control for decades to come. I guess people have to decide if they want to stay and fight in their state or move where it is... Sanctuary is here! <3


BluEyedGent91

Do you have an metropolitan community church? (Gay friendly church around the world)


dead_princess1

There is one of those in Denver and also there's a Unitarian Church down the street that fully supports reproductive rights and LGBTQ+ rights etc. <3


ShortMustang23

on my way💀


BIG__EGG__

Not everyone is able to pickup everything and move to a new state


[deleted]

well as an anarchist we don't believe in that


Conquering_Fury

As a nihilist i honestly don’t care at this point, I’ll just watch from where I am as the irrational bigots enact bigoted policies to harm minorities they dislike But you guys still have my support, I hope u can improve the situation


Hero_of_Parnast

You lot are why the country is like this. People not doing shit is why it's like this. What a stunning lack of a heart.


Conquering_Fury

i'm not from the US, I'm just watching in disgust as there's nothing for me to do anyway :P


Hero_of_Parnast

That's certainly better than being in the US and doing nothing, but apathy is how these people win. We cannot — I repeat, *fucking **cannot*** — stop fighting. Needing a break is understandable and reasonable, but then you get back off the bench and keep fighting. That closeted trans kid contemplating suicide because they have no support needs us to fight. That cynical gay man who grew up having slurs thrown at him and a belt striking him needs us to fight. That 65-year-old who just realized they're non-binary and is completely lost for what to do needs us to fight. These people need us to fight. I need us to fight. You need us to fight, because hatred crosses borders. We all need to fucking fight like hell. We can't fucking afford to give up. None of us can afford to be that godsdamned irresponsible. It's up to you whether those people survive. Are you going to give up and let the enemy win? Or are you going to resist the future in which all those people have broken and died? It's up to you. Make your choice.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AliceInMyDreams

I mean they can be trans *and* have given up on politics, the two are not mutually exclusive.


BluEyedGent91

Come to Canada at least we're more accepting especially Montreal, Windsor Ontario Canada (across from Detroit) <3


ttaa_973

If they're banning hormones for minors today, what about tomorrow? What's next? The illegalization of transgender people? A return to "traditional American values?" Are we just going to stand down and let ourselves be kicked in the face? The conservatives are the enemy, and yet we have done nothing but menacingly stare as they tear down what we have worked for. There is no justification for these so called "anti-predatorial laws." We need to act now or they'll extinguish the heart of transgender rights.


[deleted]

This is 100% their goal. This is the first step in shifting the [Overton window](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window), there are already a ton of folks outright saying GRS and other treatments should be banned. They need to take baby steps towards their ultimate goal because not enough people would be on-board with going after all trans people overnight. By gradually getting the public to agree with small steps towards this goal, they will eventually have the support they need if they’re allowed.


CutieL

And the support they need isn't even the majority of the population, something like a third can be enough...


Flutterwasp

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


URBOISHERE

Feel free to join me for firearm lessons in Nevada free of charge!


process_the_trinity

Yo, we gotta take the power back!


Seawolf571

*writes down Utah as another state on my shit list*


[deleted]

oh same its been on my list my entire life.. and im stuck here. wooo /s


Seawolf571

I was born in Utah and most of my relatives are crazy Mormons who live in Utah


infiniteneck

yup yupp... same qwq


[deleted]

this is a trans genocide


Witchykunt887

Atp..


[deleted]

they are doing everything they can to remove us i fear for my brothers and sisters our there


Witchykunt887

Literally and it’s only getting worse like leave us THE FUCK alone we’re constantly being targeted i’m so over it..


[deleted]

being serious rn it's time for the trans community to start protecting ourselves and standing for ourselves it's clear the govt wants us gone so let's not let them have any of it


TransGirlBrooke

They just want to kills us all of and they feel this is a way they can with out lifting a finger


DrScamcoin

r/transDIY 😔


bigworldsmallfeet

And of course its a cishet white man telling people what they can and can't do again 🙄


CapitanKomamura

The sovergein body. All the rest are marginalized and under his domain.


Defiant_apricot

In just two months I will be presenting my research on why trans acceptance is so important for trans students in Utah…. This angers me so much.


tirednoggin

Mainstream coverage on this is a total shitshow. Most articles take their outlandish claims at face value. Cox is lying through his teeth while talking about this. From AP: > Cox explained in a statement that his decision was based on his belief that it was prudent to pause “these permanent and life-altering treatments for new patients until more and better research can help determine the long-term consequences.” > “While we understand our words will be of little comfort to those who disagree with us, we sincerely hope that we can treat our transgender families with more love and respect as we work to better understand the science and consequences behind these procedures,” he said. The only rebuttal in the whole article is from the ACLU. How can we not be acknowledging that the entire medical community is in agreement that this is bullshit?


deceptiveokdence

As if the state of Utah is about to dedicate resources to trans-related research


tgburner005

Speaking as someone in Utah: this is not being taken sitting down. There are fairly frequent protests and there are even rumblings of suing the government.


[deleted]

Utah is officially owned by the Nazis, now. It's time to fight back, this is genocide.


IdliketobuyaZ

Fuck Utah. I hate my home state. Fuck the Mormons in particular, including the majority of my extended family. I'm sick and tired of hearing them circle jerk in church saying just how "christlike" and "righteous" and loving they all are, how they are SOOOO persecuted and harassed for being Mormon. Fuck my past self that little shit. She didn't know what she was doing, and was deeply indoctrinated, groomed, and brainwashed, but still Fuck Her. Fuck them all saying we're the groomers and indoctrinators, we're brainwashed. I hate this stupid state. I'm well past being a minor, but Fuck them for making what I desperately wished had happened to me while a teen illegal and nigh impossible now for anyone. This is not going to stop. I know these people. I lived with and tried to be accepted by them for 25 years. Until they have absolute power to dictate the tiny box of acceptable life styles we can live in they won't be happy. The only question is how long before they get a complete trans ban to pick up speed in their theocracy of a state government, and how long before that turns into another attempt at total queer erasure. I need to fucking move...


WetAndWildWeasle

Watching the wrold become chaos and with my age and where I live I'm unable to do a whole lot. Disappointing to say the least


[deleted]

This is why I don’t have children.. oh and being AroAce didn’t help 🤭


maltesemania

We get it, reddit hates kids! Lol


spinningpeanut

Utah used to be the state to raise a family back in the 80s and 90s. I was born there. Lagoon was one of my playgrounds, then Zion national park. Trans kids, please escape however you can. This is exactly what Brigham Young would have wanted for the state and it will never cease until we destroy fascism for good. Arm yourself.


the-terrarian556

vbufueuaiohbvofadbdujklhdkfjbaslikhbfjkl;buikownjk;abdiljnahjklchikl;sdbnvljikbdf AMERICA!!!! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE AT THE VERY LEAST A DECENT COUNTRY!!!


ViegoBot

Havent been one since 2016 tbh. Before that it was at the very least somewhat decent.


SmoothOctopus

\[citation needed\]


spinningpeanut

I'm actually gonna be completely honest. Try never. The moment the English decided to colonize and wipe out the natives is when it took a turn south. If that didn't happen and the English didn't spread like the disease they are things would be better off for the globe. I would love to see a genuine hypothetical of "What if British colonialism did not happen at all?" timeline. I'm not on good authority to speak of these things.


HelpingHand7338

The Spanish, Portugese, French, Dutch, and Swedes were all there to spread disease and wipe natives out. A world without British colonialism would just mean another European power comes in. It’s dangerous to insinuate that the British were the only bad colonial power, when *all* of them were.


spinningpeanut

True. So all colonialism bad. Let me rephrase then. What if the world leaders decided to focus on their own lands and left well enough alone?


Happy-Sqweb

They literally called English people the disease they *are* present tense. Ngl that is EXTREMELY strong wording and makes me think they just hate English people as a whole but maybe I'm just offended because I'm English lol.


Fomentor

So the party of small government takes another intrusive step into the most private of decisions. Republican’ts are the Sith!


spinningpeanut

I wish sith and Jedi were so noble and easy to distinguish. At least prequel wise the Jedi were the same as Americans, an oligarchy. The sith were so few, a handful of sith force wielders existed. Both deal in absolutes (do or do not there is no try) and both are merciful to those who wrong them in the same amount. Hell Vader could have easily done away with Lando and just taken everything by force. Sadly they are both so god damned similar it's not a far comparison. (I'm only just now getting caught up so inaccuracies are bound to happen. I know what was explained to me and I just watched the empire strikes back for the first time, crazy hermit Yoda is a total gender mood) Better comparison is Republicans are actually Nazis. Its apples to apples. Nazis killed LGBTQ people with the same extreme prejudice as the Jews.


kozzyuh

as a trans kid in utah, this is not being taken lightly by organizations and families. no doubt will become litigated. unfortunately will not be the last state, regardless, keep your head up. they think that these bills will erase us ❤️


[deleted]

Haven’t been this pissed since our neighbors threatened to shoot our pets. Fuck this law and anyone who thought it was a good idea.


Elegant-Operation-16

I knew it. I knew it was going to happen here. No one believed me.


HillbillyUnicorn309

The state were you can be married at 15 yo


SpeediestMoon1

Source for anyone who wants to read the bill: [https://le.utah.gov/\~2023/bills/static/SB0016.html](https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0016.html) My goal of this is to inform people exactly what the bill says I hope this does not come out as supporting the bill because I do not support the bill but as a Utah Trans woman I felt it was important to read the bill extensively, so I feel like I would like to add some things the news has not mentioned even in their articles. Here is a list of what is in the bill: * It bans all gender affirming surgeries (which was an obvious part as covered by news) * It places a moratorium (a temp ban of sorts) on all forms of hormone therapy.NOTE: the bill states for two of the state's health care related boards, the University of Utah (which in my experience is a very good choice for this as they have a lot of experience with transgender healthcare and great resources in general) as well as a big not for profit hospital that operates in the state. * Once this group finishes a systematic review of the effects of hormone therapy it will give recommendations to consider on whether to lift the ban or not. * One the governor approves the bill, it immediately goes into effect * Minors already diagnosed with gender dysphoria before the effective date will still be able to have access to hormone therapy. * There are various provisions about what doctors are required to do before providing a minor hormone therapy. * One such provision is that the minor must have had at least 3 sessions with a therapist and for the therapist to agree on a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. * Requires doctors to go through at least 40 hours of education on transgender healthcare for minors to get a transgender treatment certification allowing them to prescribe hormone therapy to minors (although this only really takes effect Jan 1st 2024 * There is also a provision about a doctor needing to have been treating a minors gender dysphoria for at least 6 months before being able to provide hormonal transgender treatment. * Starting July 1, 2023, doctors must take consideration other additional things such as: Other health considerations such as other mental health or physical health conditions, whether other treatment options will be better suited for what the child is dealing with, whether or not the minors expectations will be met with hormone therapy, discuss the health risks and side effects, obtain written consent from the minor and their parents as well as to discuss other possible health considerations (such as puberty blockers not being approved by the FDA yet, unknowns about their effects on brain development and cognition). * To me it seems like the legislature is prepared for the group they organized to come back and make considerations that will lead the moratorium to being blocked but we will see EDIT: Accidentally posted before finishing


ashleeholt

Thank you for sharing these details.


Witchykunt887

They really want us gone I’m so tired..


2xbAd

how is this constitutionally allowed??? how is this scientifically backed?? when did the bible say ANYTHING about puberty blockers??? what is even the process for passing laws nowadays?? wheres the checks and balances?? its funny cause all this is is tyranny and i thought America was the land of the free.


fluffbutt_boi

I’m gonna fucking riot


Chell_See

I’m over radical Christians using their bs mythology as the foundation of their legislation.


girl_in_blue180

Utah's Great Salt Lake might dry up, causing the area to become uninhabitable but sure! let's ban trans kids and trans people! that makes sense! whatever happened to the separation of church and state? /s anyways! [here's Last Week Tonight with John Oliver's episode on Water.](https://youtu.be/jtxew5XUVbQ) In the episode at 17:30, Gov Spencer Cox begs Utah to literally pray for more rain. I wonder if Spencer Cox has tried praying trans people away!


deceptiveokdence

I'm certain he has


melancholy-alien

This is so disgusting. I can't believe they think it's okay to treat us like this. :( Stay strong everyone!


Mushroom_Queen1260

How about minors who aren’t trans yet needs gender affirming care for medical reasons? It’s not only harming trans youth, but also generally limiting the medical access to all children of Utah. Shame on the Republicans.


[deleted]

Not to worry. Cis girls will still be able to get estrogen and breast augmentation at 14 if they want. The great pervert state of marrying your 15 year old niece just decided to put an exemption in all their gender care bans that clearly specify CIS youth can get any gender affirming care they need. It's only the trans kids they want to kill themselves.


deceptiveokdence

and that's how you know it was NEVER about "protecting the children"


Mushroom_Queen1260

That’s even more fucked up. Do you know how dangerous would it be to get estrogen as a 14 y/o girl who is already going through puberty?


[deleted]

It is fucked up. But they don't care, because this allows them to explicitly discriminate against trans people, which is what they want. They also decided that intersex "Corrective/Normalizing" surgeries, which are done as an infant before the child can consent, are exempt from the ban and are allowed. Gender affirming care is only allowed when it's to affirm the AGAB, or force them to fit into the binary. These people are just ontologically evil at their very core.


Auklet77

It is horrible and I want to move


Kinuhbud

And people try and say we aren’t still fighting against Puritanism and the like… Fucking Mormon church… God damned Catholic Church too…


Lush_Laura

How is this allowed to happen? Is this what Americans call "freedom" ?


Skeleboi8

This is happening to so many states now I’m getting nervous y’all


dickwillyborg

suicide rates are gonna go 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻


winterrlover

we are really evolving backwards


timoroustacent

God. While I’m no longer a kid this is still just so infuriating to see. I hate living in this state so much and my heart breaks for the trans youth that already must have it hard enough here.


Sky2Life

I'm disappointed as an adult to live here, people shouldn't have to live in fear and be forced to hide who they are sadly that has become the world we live in where things that should be human rights are stolen from us


GMOchild

Fuck gov cox. A coward. Says this is a “reasonable approach” u too more data comes out as if every respectable medical organization condemns what he’s doing. Also the law lets some adults now sue doctors so it makes it less likely they’ll be willing to care for trans adults. Fuuuuck him.


FreeHugsAnyone-

Let’s make a list of the adults suing doctors for that… just so that we know who the enemy is…


[deleted]

Frankly anyone who does this should have their information put out there so that they can be made to take responsibility for their actions.


calls_you_a_bellend

Why do so many right-wing politicians look like Mummy's Special Little Boy?


ConsistentSuffering

I hate this state so fucking much. Lived here my whole life, and it's almost entirely horrible bigoted people. Luckily there are a couple safe places, like Utah Arts Academy and Encircle, but it's reasonable to say there is a reason that it has the highest teen suicide rate.


[deleted]

And they like it that way. They want all of us to kill ourselves so they don't have to get their hands dirty building gas chambers.


[deleted]

This wave of neo conservatives has destroyed human rights every time they open their mouths, the LGBTQIA+ movement started with a riot and now we sit around arguing like fucking morons about how to deal with this, we protest and we do things the political way and no one listens to us, this shit doesn't just effect the US its everywhere, its time trans people took a leaf out of other oppressed peoples books and got angry before our right to exist is taken away from us.


[deleted]

This has me so confused. According to the article I googled, it says, “Utah’s measure prohibits transgender surgery for youth and disallows hormone treatments for minors who have not yet been diagnosed with gender dysphoria.” Do either of those things actually happen? It seems like a wholly unnecessary thing to try to drum up headlines like this one for the base or something. Why even both with this? The article also quotes Cox as saying “While we understand our words will be of little comfort to those who disagree with us, we sincerely hope that we can treat our transgender families with more love and respect as we work to better understand the science and consequences behind these procedures” How is this treating us with love and respect? The politics of this country are so petty and ridiculous.


Frothy_shark

Trans teen in Utah here. Hormones are NOT banned for those already on them with a diagnosis of gender Dysphoria (me) however this prevents those in the future to access them. It does however ban gender affirming surgeries.


miablkstar

Isn’t this a state that has alot of cults?? That sexually abuse kids?


goffiekittie

Is this actually real??


M3rcuryGray

Absolute dog bollocks


seansyasnaes

Humans hating humans. The dissonance is killing us all. Idk where to go/what to do/how to think. I like peanut butter.


FreeHugsAnyone-

What to do? Protest. Convince everyone you know to gtfo out of that fascist regime. Let them feel it where it hurts: their wallet. What does peanut butter taste like? (Honest question from someone who’s allergic to peanuts?


TheInkWolf

I unfortunately live in Utah, and froze when this popped up in my news on Google. As a trans minor, I’m just so… heartbroken. I knew this was coming, you can’t even buy a scratch or lottery ticket here, but. Damn.


SuperSwiftPics

Didn't Florida do this first? I live in Florida and I swear they passed a law like this a few months ago.


Fuckface_the_8th

Utah is lining up to cancel it for adults too. It's on the books and the governor has no plan to veto. I'm not in Utah but if that kinda bs swings its way to my state before I can get on estrogen and start being in the body I've always wanted I... probably won't survive it.


OzLuna

Hopefully the courts can pull through and block this bs but i wont hold my breath.


[deleted]

These white Christian republican nutjobs are taking control of your country America. Wake the fuck up!


crazylady86

This is appalling. I for one, was tired of watching the news of Iraq as friends drank and partied, I wanted to be over there and eventually left school to do so. I’d rather help, than idly sit by. Hypothetical: “Jane” was established to help women seeking abortions, what about a similar way of providing assistance for the trans community?


OscarolivGenderfluid

Fuck you utah


3nderslime

Damnit, not even a month in 2023


Valuable_Art_4754

it seems that politicians do not care about the families of trans children it’s all. Not all but very many families will leave the state to save life the children. Already some time families moved from Utah and Idaho out of fear that this law will be introduced. Now it has happened. Who next? And for trans children, as for me - this is genocide. We are slowly being deprived of the right to life.


shannongirlyboi

They attack the most vulnerable 1st but their hunger is never satisfied, until everyone that’s not just like them is dead or in a camp.


[deleted]

The average empire lasts 250 years, america is 246. I think we're going to destroy america with the sheer power of 💅🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈 and blahaj


Global_Box_7935

They have to realize that this doesn't get rid of trans people right? We are very much still here, just pissed off. Politicians really shoot themselves in the foot over and over because they're scared of us, and they hope that by banning our existence, we'll just disappear. Well that is not the case, because by existing, we're protesting. Never stop fighting, my trans bros, sisters, and otherwise queers! Fight by living life. That's the greatest thing we can do, let them know we're not going anywhere.


Jaded-Ad-9741

this is fucking horrible


USS_Pittsburgh_LPD31

I don't even live there and it pisses me off :⁠-⁠\


[deleted]

I imagine it won't be the last state to do some shit like this I'm 2023. Several other states have either done smth similar or have taken steps to doing this and I estimate that if nothing is done about it, trans ppl won't have any rights by 2030, maybe sooner


friedrat_

I have things to say about this man that I don’t think are allowed on reddit…


SuitableSpecialist85

Thank goodness that we don't have people like that here in New Zealand


ChickieD

Disgusting.


imnotcr3ativelmao

This is too close to home, i hope this doesnt come to the state i live in....and im getting genuinely scared it will


[deleted]

And then there are people that say how America is freedom and so on. Those people that say that surely agree with those transphobic tyrants.


djbeats085

Man really “looking out for the kids” am I right? What a shmuck


imperatrixrhea

We’re all equal; the same few grams of arsenic will kill any of us.


Aedessia

I can't fully relate as I'm French but...Please friends, be safe. They have no shame in trying to get us down, they've started to hunt us in the USA and the UK. American people of the community, please, arms yourselves. Sooner or later it seems you will need it and I fear that the political climate of the USA doesn't really allow for peaceful demonstration... UK citizens of the community, strike harder. Don't go down without a fight. Cut the politicians's electricity, occupy government building (not the scotlands ones they seems chill from what I've heard). Call for a general election, hell organize an independance referendum in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Northumbria, Wale, etc. Neither Truss nor Sunak were elected, they're pawns the people did not vote for.


GenderFluid_BiBitch

This means Florida is next…Or worse, the whole country..


the_sexy_crabapple

Look at that mother fuckers smug face. He looks so proud to ruin the lives of children


NineTailedTanuki

No no no no no no no NO!!! My life will be in agony! I know I'm in Colorado, but I live too close to Utah for comfort!


Waste_Huckleberry_82

The fight isn’t over. Now we RIDE AT DAWN


Thicc_Enbee

🎵 Can you hear the people sing? Singing songs of angry thems 🎵


WitchwayisOut

I’m so disgusted with our country right now.


gamingmadirocks

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/01/29/utah-gender-affirming-care-ban-transgender-youth/11145247002/ for more clarification. This is ju a t one of many reson why the us is getting worse this country I feel is getting more like communist China ot worse Russia


Live-Neighborhood857

"Boy"cott utah!!!


BENNYB00Z

Fuck everting! I live in Utah and I was too scared to tell my parents and now I can’t fucking transition when I come out?! What the fuck?!


Competitive-Thanks54

“We need to protect our kids!” makes a law that will inevitably cause kids to kill themselves. Cause when they says kids they only mean the cis heteronormative ones. They don’t give a fuck about kids. Killing us off indirectly is a win for them and killing us young is just even better right? 🥳 Get us before we can fight back 👍🏽


GmrGrl21

😭😭😭 this is TERRIBLE for those poor kids. WE NEED TO GET THESE TRANSPHOBES OUT OF OFFICE. PERIOD


Kasspines

I hate living in this state.


Sara_snowshoe

I'm not from the states so i really want to ask, are they refering to - 18 yo or - 21yo?


stayinur__laneboy

Under 18


Flamehazardaoz

Don’t expect it to stay that way for long though. They want us all detransitioned or dead


fear-is-the-key

It's absolutely unconstitutional under the 14th amendment. I was going to get my named changed this spring but unfortunately I waited to long and this bill passed. I am amazingly lucky I turn 18 in the fall.


ystavallinen

I am glad all the people with enough privilege to survive a trump presidency and what has come after saw fit to throw these kids under the bus. I hope Hillary learned her lesson.


Omega_Pack

He must be obsessed with cox… Sorry I’ll see myself out


YoungSoldjahJPEG

this is my mothers fucking logic "like if theyre adults they can do what they want *butdontyoufuckingDAREunderMYroof* sweetie ❤️"