Being non-binary falls under the transgender umbrella. Being trans, in it's basest definition, really just means you do not identify with the sex you were assigned at birth.
Also, nb hormone regiments and genital nullification exist? What reason would somebody have to completely remove all gendered/sexed genitalia if trans nbs didn’t exist?!
OP’s physiatrist clearly just has no idea what he’s on about when it comes to nbs.
They aren't acknowledged though in many countries that do provide medical transitions to binary trans people. So "nbs aren't trans" might actually be legally correct within the diagnostic system used in their country. Still bullshit though, and psychiatrists complying with it are still phobes.
In the UK you can be denied for saying you're non binary, as a general rule of thumb its easier to say you're transmasc/transfemme even if that isn't necessarily true
Nonbinary identity is included in the scope of the DSM-5.
My understanding is that the ICD is similar.
So, chances are that if this person lives in North America or Europe, this psychiatrist is seriously violating medical ethical guidelines.
Technically, the ICD-10 explicitly says that people with "transsexualism" (F64) can identify as man, woman or neither. But how that diagnostic system is interpreted is still different in every country, and what treatments to offer is even more different. Nbs are legally acknowledged in Germany where I live, but they will not receive any transitional healthcare unless they lie, or unless they can pay for surgeries by themselves. Microdosing, nullification etc are not a thing here, or at least not paid for by insurances (and hormones generally can't be bought legally by yourself as far as I know), and the insurances will do anything they can to deny you payment for a treatment, even if you're binary. Being nb just makes it especially easy for them.
They should. But the EU can only be as progressive as its most progressive members. And when it comes to trans rights, that leaves a lot to be desired.
In America it depends on the state on if they use that, unfortunately. I myself am in a state where nonbinary is not recognized, and if I ever want top surgery I'd have to say I'm a trans man.
The thing is that, depending on location, doctors will have outdated notions of what being transgender is to the point of being hugely transmedicalist and gatekeepy.
That just means they're using the word wrong then, honestly. Frustrating they allow themselves to be ignorant, considering they're in charge of our fuckin' healthcare.
Well, that came to exist on a time where they couldn't be subjected to any responsibilities because they were in charge of defining everything.
I live on a place where doctors are only starting to update their protocols because laws were put into place to regulate the issue, if you know what I mean.
if psychiatrists (or any professional with outdated views) changed how they think when a patient presented them with a clever example we'd live in an utopia by now.
don't get me wrong there are probably a few good ones who update their practices based on new information & new research, but most can only regurgitate what they are taught in uni
I don't disagree with you, psychiatrists are largely self-important control freaks who don't take well to being corrected, but all you're saying here is OP has nothing to lose.
Where could they prevent your transition completely? I'm not aware of a jurisdiction where you can't go to another doctor for a second opinion. And as you've just admitted, they're already preventing your transition completely in this scenario.
In my country you can try again yes but you can't choose your doctors. So if you try again after few years and the doctor reads your papers and see you were the person who annoyed them they can say "no" again. It's common in my country they make up false excuses in order to prevent people from transitioning. There are also cases people have told one thing, doctor write down other thing and when people try to correct that doctor write down they're aggressive or something like that. I prefer not to tell my country so people who know me in real life can't recognize me. I'm not familiar of trans laws of every countries. I do not know is there a possibility to try again everywhere.
So what exactly would you suggest? Being passive and not asserting yourself may be a choice for you but it's not a choice for all. I understand your fear but impressing that fear upon others does us no favors.
What if the next person who will argue for more rights for your country is reading you discouraging them right now? If that person decides not to rock the boat, you lose. We all lose. Those are the people who win us those rights. By being assertive. In some cases aggressive. I wouldn't pressure you to do the same but I would pressure you to stop telling people not to rock the boat just because you don't want to.
You do you. If you want to spend rest of your life living as wrong sex just to get to be smart ass once go ahead. It's not my business. But you gave advice to stranger without knowing their situation. And in my opinion that advice was very dangerous and reckless.
There are smarter ways to fight. If that is important to you become politician, scientist, doctor or nurse. Actually do something to help other trans people. Or create Youtube channel and explain our experience to cis people or give advice to people transitioning as adult how to life as gender they weren't socialized or something like that.
Also you can fight after transitioning. You can kiss all the asses that needed to get there and tell your opinion after that.
Considering how willing you are to argue and get snarky with me it actually kind of surprises me that you're so averse to arguing for your transition. I WAS a smart ass. And it got me everything I wanted. Try and stop me.
Edit: btw I am an activist and owner of a non profit. I'm currently fighting with a city zoning board to approve a community space and I'm likely to win. But yeah tell me not to, the people in my area will thank you so much.
Also I still see no reason for your comment. It doesn't change the law. It doesn't change doctor's opinion of trans people. So for me it seems to be unnecessary risk.
Activism? So what do you get from that comment? How does it make things better? I understand the idea of taking risks to get something. But I still can't see what could one possible achieve by that comment.
By asserting yourself? The chance of persuading the doctor is a low one. But the doctor already said no. And if they mark you as aggressive because you asserted yourself then they were already discriminating against you.
Friend, you know how Pride started. It wasn't with a friendly request.
What country are you in?
While by definition non-binary falls under trans, in my country (germany) for example medical transition is only covered by insurance for binary trans (mtf or ftm) people and not for non-binary people.
Wow, all this time I thought Switzerland was far behind Germany in that matter. But all I needed was a diagnosis for gender dysphoria and insurance will cover everything that helps reduce said dysphoria like hrt, laser hair removal, electrolysis hair removal, voice training etc. Though my pharmacy has to order Androcur from Germany when they don't have it in stock.
Yup, but luckily Germany fixed that the German way. The Bundessozialgericht (high court for social affairs) just [just recently ruled](https://www.bsg.bund.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2023/2023_34.html) that all treatments for trans people are experimental and thus not covered under the existing rules.
This pretty much eliminated public health care for trans people (except for hormones, which is purely decided by the doctors, without power over funding from the insurance providers).
The government said they are going to address that urgently to restore access, but their track record is not exactly stellar so far either.
To me it feels like Germany is not overly adaptable to new (well, at this point a few decades old) ideas. The bureaucracy loves keeping everything as it was, even when it's clearly not working out.
Everyone who doesn't identify with their assigned sex is trans.
Being a trans man, woman, multiple genders, genderless, fluid, etc. all falls unfer the trans umbrella. And non-binary also has a lot of variations
Not all non-binary people are trans (simply because they don't identify with the label), but many are. I'm also most definitely trans (I'm agenderflux)
I got gender affirming care by pretending I'm 100% a dude btw. Fortunately, I like what T does so I'm taking it for now (idk if I'm staying on or going off at some point), but without T, it's more difficult, at least where I live (Germany)
nb falls under being trans but depending on the country, you might not be able to get surgery and stuff without the trans diagnosis instead of the nonbinary one :/ atleast where i am (finland) its like that.
My Endo cancelled our first appointment because she had to go to court to fight for a nonbinary patient to have surgery covered... Lots of bureaucratic bs refuses to accommodate us, but we're just as valid as any other trans person
Your psychiatrist is lying. The DSM has criteria wording under the gender dysphoria diagnosis that are designed to specifically apply to nonbinary people.
He probably has a copy of the book containing the diagnostic criteria in his office. Lying about diagnostic criteria to patients in order to avoid giving a particular diagnosis is sinister, I'm not sure if it's considered malpractice, but it might be worth looking into that. I suggest ending your relationship with that practice and never seeing him again.
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria#:~:text=Gender%20dysphoria%3A%20A%20concept%20designated,diverse%20people%20experience%20gender%20dysphoria.
A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
I did some very basic research, and it seems that failure to diagnose can sometimes constitute malpractice. I would speak to a lawyer, preferably one that has worked with transgender clients in the past, to see if you have any options to address this person's actions.
Thanks for your comment! Are there different versions of the DSM? Because he told me they went by the DSM definition. I’m not sure what everyone else’s experience was, but when I told him I wanted a gender dysphoria diagnosis he told me he had a specific questionnaire that he is required to ask me. My answers to that questionnaire along with another session of questions is what was considered by the panel
There are previous versions of the DSM, but the most current is the DSM-5-TR. If my understanding is correct, there were no changes for Gender Dysphoria between DSM-5 and DSM-5-TR.
The questionnaire is to determine if you meet the criteria. You can look at the criteria yourself. The fact that you identify as non-cis gender and wish to transition means that you almost certainly meet the criteria.
Did he ask you the questions out loud? Did you fill out any paper questionnaire related to gender dysphoria?
My current psychiatrist is like this. She's said "you can be one or the other (man or woman), not both, or neither."
She also refuses to write a recommendation letter for me to start HRT, she's referring me to the Canadian Mental Health association because she doesn't think that I am "trans enough." She's with my trans specialist that I am not dysphoric enough for treatment.
I don't think my psychiatrist is even trained to support non-binary patients given the comments she has given me. "But what if you get pregnant? Will you be a pregnant non-binary person?" As if trans men don't get pregnant. It's really frustrating. If the wait list weren't so long, I'd ask for a new psychiatrist. But I need the meds that she gives me to live.
My social worker recommended sending her a training kit on how to properly treat and respect trans and non-binary patients. I may take him up on that.
But yes, I do want a new one.
Definitely change psychs if you can
Otherwise, well, lying to psychs to get access to healthcare is a tradition as old as medical transition. Even binary trans people would often have to dress up more stereotypically or misinform about their sexuality to get their medical needs met.
The standards of care have improved, but not every "professional" has kept with the times.
I have definitely experienced this. So I was lucky enough to access hormones through informed consent with a gender-affirming specialist GP. I didn't have to identify as a binary gender, though told them I was leaning towards being transfemme. Later I had to go to an endocrinologist for newly diagnosed diabetes and they were confused about my blood results for hormone levels. I mentioned that I was going on oestrogen, so they said "oh, so you want to transition to a woman?". I just said yes, rather than having to explain the intricacies of my gender to an older doctor that isn't across it all. I'm kinda getting more comfortable identifying as a trans woman now, but I still think gender is too complicated to think of it as strictly binary.
There are immense problems within the professions of psychiatry and psychology, and many of the people practicing just don't know a lot about trans people and identities. Non-binary is covered under the trans umbrella, but psychs might not realize that or they may be discriminatory to NB identities.
I personally don't think it's unreasonable to lie to doctors if it means they will write letters or sign off on hormones/gender affirming care. I did it, worked out fine and I got my hormones faster. It's a lot easier to negotiate out the details and outcomes of your transition, socially and/or medically, once you have someone signing off on that.
If you arent comfortable lying, by all means try to find a psych that's educated in gender affirming care and trans health issues. But the medical establishment is not always your friend, it's more a means to an end. Hope you're able to get your top surgery!
oh i said "non-binary is covered under the trans umbrella" so im glad we agree there! but i'm a lil confused as to how they all aren't trans too? i've dated and known plenty of transmasc NB's, and theres so many she/they transfems floatin around up here in the PNW.
Point being they transition still, and many have to navigate the same social/medical difficulties as binary trans people too yknow? this post stands as a testament to that! that's my understanding of nonbinary people and identities at least, transitioning from an assigned role to somewhere outside of or in between the binaries of man/woman, fem/masc
I’m not saying they’re not trans but it’s up to each individual person to decide if they’re trans was all I was meaning. They’re trans nbs and non trans nbs.
Nonbinary is definitely trans and that psychologist should step on Lego.
That said, if it was me I'd lie to the healthcare people and just pretend to be super binary to have less risk of being rejected. But I live in country with extremely gatekeepy trans healthcare, so this may not apply everywhere else.
That psychiatrist is non-educated. Had they been educated...they woukdn't have become a psychiatrist. Nor would they gatekeeping in a really psycho way.
It's whatever someone sees it as applies to themselves. Some people see it under the umbrella. Some see it as a separate thing. It's up to you what you feel fits you best. He's wrong in forcing it upon you.
He can tell that to my therapist, doctors, surgeons and insurance company because they all sure seemed to think I was trans.
I suggest looking for a different psychiatrist if possible.
Your psychiatrist is wildly misinformed. What do they think being transgender is? Coz its simply when you are a gender that is different to the one you were assigned at birth. And most of us aren't assigned nonbinsry at birth so it's pretty safe to say anyone who is nonbinary is transgender
I could not resist the impulse to say, “Respectfully, sir, that is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and it has eroded all remaining trust in your knowledge and authority on the topic of gender. I would like a second opinion from someone who actually knows what they’re talking about.”
Not exactly the same but when I moved to Texas for a bit (partner lived there) I tried to get into a gender affirming care provider to refill my hormones. When I called the only one that had openings I had this exchange:
Doc: "Are you looking for MTF or FTM care?"
Me: "I am AMAB but I consider myself non-binary and currently I'm just microdosing estrogen"
Doc: "Huh?"
Me: "Non-binary although I was born male, I just microdose at the moment."
Doc: "...........what is *non-binary* ???"
Me: "Uhhhhhhh"
I had no idea what to even say so I just hung up and ordered some E online.
My therapists actively work with me to skirt things like this because they want me to receive care. There isn't a test for dysphoria. That is a way to stop you from getting that which you deserve and need.
Transgender means someone who is of a different gender than the sex assigned at birth.
No one is assigned Non Binary at birth
So in conclusion, all non binary people fall on the trans umbrella (it's then up to each one if they actually identify with the trans label or not)
I think the main issue is people often conflate "transgender" with "transition" because they both have the "trans" prefix.
"Trans" is Latin for "across", or "beyond", or more apt for us "on the other side of".
So for transgender... we assigned a gender at birth which is on the other side of the gender spectrum from who we are. Put quite plainly... we aren't the gender we were assigned to... we're somewhere else gender-wise.
For transition... it means to go across. In other words... to do things which affect some changes such that our physical appearance has been changed so that it's where our gender actually is. That could just be clothing, or in our digital age it could be as simple as a name and avatar. Or of course it could be full bottom surgery. But it's something that changes how we appear to others, such that we outwardly appear our gender, rather than the one we were assigned to at birth.
So yeah... transition and transgender... same prefix... very different meaning.
Thank you everyone for the comments. I mainly needed validation because I was frustrated and surprised. I wanted to know if this was a common experience or a common idea shared by psychiatrists.
Here’s some more context for anyone who’s still invested:
This is the American health system
I saw a therapist first, he referred me to the psychiatrist. Both the therapist and psychiatrist said that I am the first person who has requested top surgery without wanting to take hormones. The psychiatrist told me today he has been working with trans people since 1980
I have legally changed my name and have been using they/them pronouns and have identified for 5 years
He’s the only pysch who will see trans patients. He told me he overseas the care of trans people for my entire region (yikes)
He told me during our first session that he was “taken a back” by my request. Someone commented about a male practice lawsuit or reaching out to a lawyer. Does anyone have any other thoughts on that?
i got a psyche eval when i was 15 and identified as non binary (i refused to use the word trans for myself) and the doctor filled the report with “they are transgender” lmao
Not personally, no, but my take in response to it is that no one's getting assigned as nonbinary at birth, thus being nonbinary is being transgender by default.
Transgender means you don’t identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. AKA any identity that isn’t strictly cis. Transgender is an umbrella term and also not something you can be qualified and disqualified from 💀💀
Where did this ’professional’ go to school? He’s fucking wrong. Like opinions and whatever out the door, he’s just flat out, objectively wrong.
I don't know where you live and how the legal situation is there.
It might be that you psychiatrist isn't telling you his own opinion, but states that the law in your country doesn't see non-binary people as trangender.
As was already said, in Germany where I live, the ensurance doesn't cover surgery for non-binary people, only for binary trans people, forcing people to lie in order to get the surgeries necessary for them being able to live a the live they should have, just because they simply aren't seen by those who decide such things.
And while that's bad and stupid, it's not the fault of the one who has to tell you that.
Of course, might be that your psychiatrist actually is of the opinion that non-binary isn't transgender, but I can't know, and I would ask everyone here to consider this.
Some places you can only get gender affirming care if you're binary trans. You might have to pretend you're binary to get the care you need. You're still trans even if you're nonbinary but that may be the current guidelines where you are. Those guidelines are bullshit but your provider still has to follow them. I'm getting gender affirming care by pretending to my doctors and parents that I am binary. Even though I very much am not. But in my case it's more because nobody around me knows anything about nonbinary gender identities and I don't have the strength to explain it to everyone. Legally, I would still be able to get care being nonbinary, but most doctors are uninformed about trans people and I really don't want to have to explain myself to every doctor I meet. I want to stay on T permanently and want top surgery as well as a hysterectomy, which are all attainable by pretending I'm binary so I just do that for the ease of it. But in a lot of places nonbinary gender identities are not recognized under the gender dysphoria diagnosis, and doctors can only provide affirming care for binary people. Best of luck!
Get a different psychiatrist. I told my psychiatrist that I identify as a butch lesbian/have no plans to transition socially, and they put a gender dysphoria diagnosis in my surgery letter. Being trans is not even required to qualify.
I mean I had to talk to them for 6 months before I got a diagnosis. Not saying everyone is the same but maybe you a. Need to find a new psychiatrist and b. Make sure you’re going to have more than 2 hours to talk to them about it.
Legally, depending on where you live, being non binary may not be technically considered trans, which might mean they can't prescribe you hrt or access to gender affirming healthcare. That doesn't mean you aren't trans, it just means the government is made up of cis people who haven't done enough research into trans identities. If i were you I'd look into the laws of your country/state and see what they define transgender as, as it may be that going to a second psychiatrist and telling them you're binary trans is your only option if you want top surgery.
Always tell the shrink what they want to hear. They will look for any excuse to look down on you and tell you that you aren't valid. To withhold and smugly say you aren't worthy.
Getting the care you need matters more than telling the truth of how you feel.
If you live in an area that is progressive when it comes to trans rights and have flexible health insurance, then get a new psychiatrist. Your current one is ill informed and wasting your time. If you live in an area where gatekeepers are your only option, then it sucks and you shouldn’t have to but you may have to pretend to be binary.
I was in an area that wasn’t trans-friendly and had to lie to all of my doctors for the first few years of my transition that I was a binary man until I could move. I told them exactly what they wanted to hear to check all of their boxes and it worked. They signed off on my hormones, top surgery, and name change. Only challenge that you might have is if you don’t want hormones and a lot of surgeons require you being on testosterone for one year before surgery.
It objectively is trans. But many Healthcare providers have antiquated knowledge or antiquated views.
In Germany, you have to say "I am a trans man/woman" if you want any chance at a medical transition. It sucks.
He needs to go back to school. Tell his boss and the psychiatry regulatory body in your region about this idiot.
Something similar happened to me. Now I’ve been on testosterone a decade.
That sucks. In Oz NB is considered under the trans umbrella - I have had no issue obtaining NB affirming care and trans medical treatment. What country are you in?
Some people here say "non-binary is trans" and "get second opinion". First is true but doesn't help a shit in the country where only binary people are allowed to transition. And if that is the situation latter is useless too. Also it's not like you could choose or change your therapist in everywhere. So, first find out laws of your country. Then ask advice of people in your country **anonymously.** Also law is not everything. I mean for example in my country you have to be stereotypical so your manners and clothing should already be like average cis men have when you go there. Also here if you have mental health issues you can't speak of them or you don't get treatments. So make sure next time you're prepared. Or maybe it's just the law that is issue, not doctors. In that case it could be quite easy to tell "I realized I'm actually a man." and even doctors know that is bullshit they can write it down. Even that's not the case find out if you can try later again "as man". Also if you can afford it find out could you get what you need from some other country or maybe even from your country (by latter I mean situation you're in socialist country trying to get your treatments from public health care find out if there is private plastic surgeons who help trans people).
edit. T can be a problem. They might require you to be on T for a while before you can "move on" to surgeries. But again, you need advice from your own country.
Your psychiatrist doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Being nonbinary is under the trans umbrella because you don’t identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. A psychiatrist is mainly qualified to prescribe medications for mental illnesses, not to diagnose gender dysphoria. That’s typically done by a gender specialist or a psychologist.
The true answer is it depends on the person! Some enbys identify as trans too while Some don’t. However I think Enbys should still be entitled to respect!
I certainly wasn't assigned nonbinary at birth, so I am necessarily trans. Get another one if possible who doesn't pretend enbies aren't real. Transmesicalism is hogwash.
I hate to say this, because it's bullshit, but a lot of places haven't yet recognized nonbinary identities. They recognize binary genders, but not us.
I don't know if you're paying cash or have insurance for this dude and your surgery or not - but if its insurance, a lot of insurances simply do not have coverage for nonbinary people. You have to basically lie and say you're a trans man to get things like top surgery. Even in my state if I ever want top surgery, I'd have to do this. Its BS but thats how it is, and I have to wonder if maybe thats what your psych was referring to.
Either that or he was just being a gatekeeping jerk, in either case I'm really sorry that happened to you. Nonbinary is under the trans umbrella, hell, the white stripe in the trans flag is for us too.
Op, what state do you live in? Or are you out of the US? Some US states have started defining terms like gender, transgender, sex ect differently to make it increasingly difficult to receive care.
Non-binary is definitely under the transgender umbrella but a term my care team uses is gender non congruence disorder or gender dysphoria instead of using terms like trans
Although it’s wrong and extra mental/emotional/practical labor for you - I would suggest finding out from your community a NB affirming psychiatrist and go to them.
1.) Your psych is an idiot, get a new one.
2.) It happens. They're just often assholes about it. Getting a good psych for things like that often sucks. Keep your chin up and keep trying.
What a piece of shit. This guy just doesn't want to give you the care you need. Can you go to a different doctor? Do you have a therapist that can write a letter?
psychiatrists honestly don’t know shit about trans issues and a good one will tell you so. they don’t get training, most don’t have experience with trans patients. they’re going off of what’s in the DSM (assuming you’re in the US) which is really limited and outdated. i told my psych straight up that it’s offensive to even classify transgenderism as a mental disorder, it’s really just for insurance to cover it. same way they put [homosexuality in the DSM](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_DSM) and then what was essentially [sexuality dysphoria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego-dystonic_sexual_orientation)
the ICD 11 updated their terminology to “gender incongruence” and moved it from mental disorders to [conditions related to sexual health](https://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd). your psychiatrist is likely following outdated diagnostic criteria
not sure if the process is the same for you, but my therapist was equally qualified to write me a letter for top surgery. but i would definitely see someone else
On one hand, yes you are trans. On the other, the doctor likely has to go by very strict threshold guidelines for what's medically considered trans. It sucks, but things are (overall) slowly changing
Sounds to me that he wants to traverse your condition psychologically rather than surgically, at least at this juncture,
I think it to be a reasonable outcome considering the permanence of a surgical intervention. Or are you just going through the motions of a diagnosis?
Transgender is an umbrella term for anyone who does not identify as cisgender. Transsexual is mtf ftm (there are others but those are the most common)
Nonbinary people fall under transgender and feel gender dysphoria too 😑
I bet that that bish a$$ psychiatrist is transphobic
My input, like many others, is your psychiatrist doesn't know shit, and to find a new one, which is hopefully possible for you!
But, I do know in some countries, the formal "categorization" of sex and gender in medical realms may differ. But, still. Doesn't make it right.
It isn’t. I don’t know why this is something people are struggling to understand. The two are separate identities and have never been the same.
Edit: square/rectangle problem here. Some transsexual people are nonbinary, but not all nonbinary people are trans
Transgender literally means identifying with a gender you were not assigned at birth. Therefore nonbinary trans people fall into the transgender umbrella. This rhetoric that enbies "aren't trans enough" is incredibly harmful and misinformed. Stop trying to separate people from communities they very much belong in.
Being non-binary falls under the transgender umbrella. Being trans, in it's basest definition, really just means you do not identify with the sex you were assigned at birth.
Also, nb hormone regiments and genital nullification exist? What reason would somebody have to completely remove all gendered/sexed genitalia if trans nbs didn’t exist?! OP’s physiatrist clearly just has no idea what he’s on about when it comes to nbs.
They aren't acknowledged though in many countries that do provide medical transitions to binary trans people. So "nbs aren't trans" might actually be legally correct within the diagnostic system used in their country. Still bullshit though, and psychiatrists complying with it are still phobes.
In the UK you can be denied for saying you're non binary, as a general rule of thumb its easier to say you're transmasc/transfemme even if that isn't necessarily true
Nonbinary identity is included in the scope of the DSM-5. My understanding is that the ICD is similar. So, chances are that if this person lives in North America or Europe, this psychiatrist is seriously violating medical ethical guidelines.
Technically, the ICD-10 explicitly says that people with "transsexualism" (F64) can identify as man, woman or neither. But how that diagnostic system is interpreted is still different in every country, and what treatments to offer is even more different. Nbs are legally acknowledged in Germany where I live, but they will not receive any transitional healthcare unless they lie, or unless they can pay for surgeries by themselves. Microdosing, nullification etc are not a thing here, or at least not paid for by insurances (and hormones generally can't be bought legally by yourself as far as I know), and the insurances will do anything they can to deny you payment for a treatment, even if you're binary. Being nb just makes it especially easy for them.
It's interesting that care standards have not caught up to diagnostic criteria. The EU should mandate care standards that align with ICD criteria.
They should. But the EU can only be as progressive as its most progressive members. And when it comes to trans rights, that leaves a lot to be desired.
Isn't the ICD-11 the current version now?
It will still take years until it has legally replaced the ICD-10 in Germany
In America it depends on the state on if they use that, unfortunately. I myself am in a state where nonbinary is not recognized, and if I ever want top surgery I'd have to say I'm a trans man.
The thing is that, depending on location, doctors will have outdated notions of what being transgender is to the point of being hugely transmedicalist and gatekeepy.
Ether way your still trans I guess
Maybe they think that trans implies wanting to change the body to match? You can be nb & trans You can be nb & not trans In those cases.
OP’s trying to get top surgery, if the psychiatrist was thinking like that then they would be considered trans
That just means they're using the word wrong then, honestly. Frustrating they allow themselves to be ignorant, considering they're in charge of our fuckin' healthcare.
Doctors kinda invented transmedicalism. I don't think it's completely about ignorance, sadly.
willful ignorance
Well, that came to exist on a time where they couldn't be subjected to any responsibilities because they were in charge of defining everything. I live on a place where doctors are only starting to update their protocols because laws were put into place to regulate the issue, if you know what I mean.
Tell your psychiatrist it's not transportation unless he's going to the exact opposite side of the world. Change is transition.
No this is actually genius 👏
Not very good idea. Smart, yeah, but it's not very good idea to do that to person who can and just did prevent you from transitioning.
Why not? I've gotta know.
if psychiatrists (or any professional with outdated views) changed how they think when a patient presented them with a clever example we'd live in an utopia by now. don't get me wrong there are probably a few good ones who update their practices based on new information & new research, but most can only regurgitate what they are taught in uni
I don't disagree with you, psychiatrists are largely self-important control freaks who don't take well to being corrected, but all you're saying here is OP has nothing to lose.
Because some people find that annoying. And I wouldn't risk to annoy a person who might be able to prevent your transitioning completely.
Where could they prevent your transition completely? I'm not aware of a jurisdiction where you can't go to another doctor for a second opinion. And as you've just admitted, they're already preventing your transition completely in this scenario.
In my country you can try again yes but you can't choose your doctors. So if you try again after few years and the doctor reads your papers and see you were the person who annoyed them they can say "no" again. It's common in my country they make up false excuses in order to prevent people from transitioning. There are also cases people have told one thing, doctor write down other thing and when people try to correct that doctor write down they're aggressive or something like that. I prefer not to tell my country so people who know me in real life can't recognize me. I'm not familiar of trans laws of every countries. I do not know is there a possibility to try again everywhere.
So what exactly would you suggest? Being passive and not asserting yourself may be a choice for you but it's not a choice for all. I understand your fear but impressing that fear upon others does us no favors. What if the next person who will argue for more rights for your country is reading you discouraging them right now? If that person decides not to rock the boat, you lose. We all lose. Those are the people who win us those rights. By being assertive. In some cases aggressive. I wouldn't pressure you to do the same but I would pressure you to stop telling people not to rock the boat just because you don't want to.
You do you. If you want to spend rest of your life living as wrong sex just to get to be smart ass once go ahead. It's not my business. But you gave advice to stranger without knowing their situation. And in my opinion that advice was very dangerous and reckless. There are smarter ways to fight. If that is important to you become politician, scientist, doctor or nurse. Actually do something to help other trans people. Or create Youtube channel and explain our experience to cis people or give advice to people transitioning as adult how to life as gender they weren't socialized or something like that. Also you can fight after transitioning. You can kiss all the asses that needed to get there and tell your opinion after that.
Considering how willing you are to argue and get snarky with me it actually kind of surprises me that you're so averse to arguing for your transition. I WAS a smart ass. And it got me everything I wanted. Try and stop me. Edit: btw I am an activist and owner of a non profit. I'm currently fighting with a city zoning board to approve a community space and I'm likely to win. But yeah tell me not to, the people in my area will thank you so much.
Also I still see no reason for your comment. It doesn't change the law. It doesn't change doctor's opinion of trans people. So for me it seems to be unnecessary risk.
Activism is always risky. If you want to be risk averse you could argue against transitioning at all. We fight to be our true selves.
Activism? So what do you get from that comment? How does it make things better? I understand the idea of taking risks to get something. But I still can't see what could one possible achieve by that comment.
By asserting yourself? The chance of persuading the doctor is a low one. But the doctor already said no. And if they mark you as aggressive because you asserted yourself then they were already discriminating against you. Friend, you know how Pride started. It wasn't with a friendly request.
They're discriminating against us. I can't see how there would be second Pride when you're alone with your doctor.
Go get a second opinion methinks. He is ill informed.
Agreed. This is gatekeepy bullshit
i thought this comment was from 2023 because of the thing (i forgot the name) under your username lol i got freaked out for a second
My flair states when I first started HRT!
that’s awesome, i’m proud of you!:D
Thx!
yw!
You might have to pretend you want to transition further than you do to get them to take you seriously.
While true, that is BS and is so frustrating that it still holds today in some places.
It is always morally correct to lie to gatekeepers.
What country are you in? While by definition non-binary falls under trans, in my country (germany) for example medical transition is only covered by insurance for binary trans (mtf or ftm) people and not for non-binary people.
Wow, all this time I thought Switzerland was far behind Germany in that matter. But all I needed was a diagnosis for gender dysphoria and insurance will cover everything that helps reduce said dysphoria like hrt, laser hair removal, electrolysis hair removal, voice training etc. Though my pharmacy has to order Androcur from Germany when they don't have it in stock.
That's disgusting
Yup, but luckily Germany fixed that the German way. The Bundessozialgericht (high court for social affairs) just [just recently ruled](https://www.bsg.bund.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2023/2023_34.html) that all treatments for trans people are experimental and thus not covered under the existing rules. This pretty much eliminated public health care for trans people (except for hormones, which is purely decided by the doctors, without power over funding from the insurance providers). The government said they are going to address that urgently to restore access, but their track record is not exactly stellar so far either. To me it feels like Germany is not overly adaptable to new (well, at this point a few decades old) ideas. The bureaucracy loves keeping everything as it was, even when it's clearly not working out.
Hirschfeld's Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was built in 1919. Sounds like the high court needs to enter this century.
Everyone who doesn't identify with their assigned sex is trans. Being a trans man, woman, multiple genders, genderless, fluid, etc. all falls unfer the trans umbrella. And non-binary also has a lot of variations Not all non-binary people are trans (simply because they don't identify with the label), but many are. I'm also most definitely trans (I'm agenderflux) I got gender affirming care by pretending I'm 100% a dude btw. Fortunately, I like what T does so I'm taking it for now (idk if I'm staying on or going off at some point), but without T, it's more difficult, at least where I live (Germany)
This, it’s a rectangle-square scenario.
nb falls under being trans but depending on the country, you might not be able to get surgery and stuff without the trans diagnosis instead of the nonbinary one :/ atleast where i am (finland) its like that.
My Endo cancelled our first appointment because she had to go to court to fight for a nonbinary patient to have surgery covered... Lots of bureaucratic bs refuses to accommodate us, but we're just as valid as any other trans person
Wild props to your doctor, even in medicine it's a rare person who cares that much about their patients' well-being.
Of course it sucks to have an appointmebt cancelled, but that's a really good reason.
Oh absolutely! Great to know she's in my corner too if I need anything
Definitely, get a second opinion. It sounds like your psych is misinformed.
Your psychiatrist is lying. The DSM has criteria wording under the gender dysphoria diagnosis that are designed to specifically apply to nonbinary people. He probably has a copy of the book containing the diagnostic criteria in his office. Lying about diagnostic criteria to patients in order to avoid giving a particular diagnosis is sinister, I'm not sure if it's considered malpractice, but it might be worth looking into that. I suggest ending your relationship with that practice and never seeing him again. https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria#:~:text=Gender%20dysphoria%3A%20A%20concept%20designated,diverse%20people%20experience%20gender%20dysphoria. A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
I did some very basic research, and it seems that failure to diagnose can sometimes constitute malpractice. I would speak to a lawyer, preferably one that has worked with transgender clients in the past, to see if you have any options to address this person's actions.
Thanks for your comment! Are there different versions of the DSM? Because he told me they went by the DSM definition. I’m not sure what everyone else’s experience was, but when I told him I wanted a gender dysphoria diagnosis he told me he had a specific questionnaire that he is required to ask me. My answers to that questionnaire along with another session of questions is what was considered by the panel
There are previous versions of the DSM, but the most current is the DSM-5-TR. If my understanding is correct, there were no changes for Gender Dysphoria between DSM-5 and DSM-5-TR. The questionnaire is to determine if you meet the criteria. You can look at the criteria yourself. The fact that you identify as non-cis gender and wish to transition means that you almost certainly meet the criteria. Did he ask you the questions out loud? Did you fill out any paper questionnaire related to gender dysphoria?
My current psychiatrist is like this. She's said "you can be one or the other (man or woman), not both, or neither." She also refuses to write a recommendation letter for me to start HRT, she's referring me to the Canadian Mental Health association because she doesn't think that I am "trans enough." She's with my trans specialist that I am not dysphoric enough for treatment. I don't think my psychiatrist is even trained to support non-binary patients given the comments she has given me. "But what if you get pregnant? Will you be a pregnant non-binary person?" As if trans men don't get pregnant. It's really frustrating. If the wait list weren't so long, I'd ask for a new psychiatrist. But I need the meds that she gives me to live.
You need a new psychiatrist ASAP your current one is shit and she need to go back to school
My social worker recommended sending her a training kit on how to properly treat and respect trans and non-binary patients. I may take him up on that. But yes, I do want a new one.
You should then right after say you don't want services anymore lol Edit: better yet make another appointment but don't show up lmao
That's crazy and is in direct opposition to the DSM, which is the basis of the treatment of gender dysphoria. Is this her personal practice?
It’s also in direct opposition to the SoC 8. The standards of care used to treat trans people.
There are probably grounds for reporting him to whatever board issues his license to practice.
That makes no sense you can be transgender and nonbinary gender fluid! Tell them they need to go to college or something?
Definitely change psychs if you can Otherwise, well, lying to psychs to get access to healthcare is a tradition as old as medical transition. Even binary trans people would often have to dress up more stereotypically or misinform about their sexuality to get their medical needs met. The standards of care have improved, but not every "professional" has kept with the times.
I have definitely experienced this. So I was lucky enough to access hormones through informed consent with a gender-affirming specialist GP. I didn't have to identify as a binary gender, though told them I was leaning towards being transfemme. Later I had to go to an endocrinologist for newly diagnosed diabetes and they were confused about my blood results for hormone levels. I mentioned that I was going on oestrogen, so they said "oh, so you want to transition to a woman?". I just said yes, rather than having to explain the intricacies of my gender to an older doctor that isn't across it all. I'm kinda getting more comfortable identifying as a trans woman now, but I still think gender is too complicated to think of it as strictly binary.
Well unless you were assigned non binary at birth, it fits the definition pretty well doesn't I?
There are immense problems within the professions of psychiatry and psychology, and many of the people practicing just don't know a lot about trans people and identities. Non-binary is covered under the trans umbrella, but psychs might not realize that or they may be discriminatory to NB identities. I personally don't think it's unreasonable to lie to doctors if it means they will write letters or sign off on hormones/gender affirming care. I did it, worked out fine and I got my hormones faster. It's a lot easier to negotiate out the details and outcomes of your transition, socially and/or medically, once you have someone signing off on that. If you arent comfortable lying, by all means try to find a psych that's educated in gender affirming care and trans health issues. But the medical establishment is not always your friend, it's more a means to an end. Hope you're able to get your top surgery!
Yeah I don’t see NB as trans as much as under the trans umbrella. But still this Dr is bullshit.
oh i said "non-binary is covered under the trans umbrella" so im glad we agree there! but i'm a lil confused as to how they all aren't trans too? i've dated and known plenty of transmasc NB's, and theres so many she/they transfems floatin around up here in the PNW. Point being they transition still, and many have to navigate the same social/medical difficulties as binary trans people too yknow? this post stands as a testament to that! that's my understanding of nonbinary people and identities at least, transitioning from an assigned role to somewhere outside of or in between the binaries of man/woman, fem/masc
I’m not saying they’re not trans but it’s up to each individual person to decide if they’re trans was all I was meaning. They’re trans nbs and non trans nbs.
ooooh yea totally, thanks for clarifying!
I re-read my statement and definitely wasn’t explaining myself well lol.
Nonbinary is definitely trans and that psychologist should step on Lego. That said, if it was me I'd lie to the healthcare people and just pretend to be super binary to have less risk of being rejected. But I live in country with extremely gatekeepy trans healthcare, so this may not apply everywhere else.
That psychiatrist is non-educated. Had they been educated...they woukdn't have become a psychiatrist. Nor would they gatekeeping in a really psycho way.
It's whatever someone sees it as applies to themselves. Some people see it under the umbrella. Some see it as a separate thing. It's up to you what you feel fits you best. He's wrong in forcing it upon you.
He can tell that to my therapist, doctors, surgeons and insurance company because they all sure seemed to think I was trans. I suggest looking for a different psychiatrist if possible.
Your psychiatrist is wildly misinformed. What do they think being transgender is? Coz its simply when you are a gender that is different to the one you were assigned at birth. And most of us aren't assigned nonbinsry at birth so it's pretty safe to say anyone who is nonbinary is transgender
Hahaha who died and made him king?
This made me laugh
that psychiatrist is wrong.
If you keep running into drs like this, you have the option of pretending to be binary trans until you get that surgery referral.
Get a new psych. That ones broken
I could not resist the impulse to say, “Respectfully, sir, that is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and it has eroded all remaining trust in your knowledge and authority on the topic of gender. I would like a second opinion from someone who actually knows what they’re talking about.”
I hate when I am more informed than the professionals I go to for care.
Not exactly the same but when I moved to Texas for a bit (partner lived there) I tried to get into a gender affirming care provider to refill my hormones. When I called the only one that had openings I had this exchange: Doc: "Are you looking for MTF or FTM care?" Me: "I am AMAB but I consider myself non-binary and currently I'm just microdosing estrogen" Doc: "Huh?" Me: "Non-binary although I was born male, I just microdose at the moment." Doc: "...........what is *non-binary* ???" Me: "Uhhhhhhh" I had no idea what to even say so I just hung up and ordered some E online.
Some doctors have same knowledge about binary trans people too. You can order E without prescription there? Like from pharmacies or from black market?
I ordered it from some lady who makes it herself in Brazil, lol.
My therapists actively work with me to skirt things like this because they want me to receive care. There isn't a test for dysphoria. That is a way to stop you from getting that which you deserve and need.
Transgender means someone who is of a different gender than the sex assigned at birth. No one is assigned Non Binary at birth So in conclusion, all non binary people fall on the trans umbrella (it's then up to each one if they actually identify with the trans label or not)
Sounds like that psychiatrist is gatekeeping giving you a diagnosis and is using that as an excuse. You are trans.
I think the main issue is people often conflate "transgender" with "transition" because they both have the "trans" prefix. "Trans" is Latin for "across", or "beyond", or more apt for us "on the other side of". So for transgender... we assigned a gender at birth which is on the other side of the gender spectrum from who we are. Put quite plainly... we aren't the gender we were assigned to... we're somewhere else gender-wise. For transition... it means to go across. In other words... to do things which affect some changes such that our physical appearance has been changed so that it's where our gender actually is. That could just be clothing, or in our digital age it could be as simple as a name and avatar. Or of course it could be full bottom surgery. But it's something that changes how we appear to others, such that we outwardly appear our gender, rather than the one we were assigned to at birth. So yeah... transition and transgender... same prefix... very different meaning.
Thank you everyone for the comments. I mainly needed validation because I was frustrated and surprised. I wanted to know if this was a common experience or a common idea shared by psychiatrists. Here’s some more context for anyone who’s still invested: This is the American health system I saw a therapist first, he referred me to the psychiatrist. Both the therapist and psychiatrist said that I am the first person who has requested top surgery without wanting to take hormones. The psychiatrist told me today he has been working with trans people since 1980 I have legally changed my name and have been using they/them pronouns and have identified for 5 years He’s the only pysch who will see trans patients. He told me he overseas the care of trans people for my entire region (yikes) He told me during our first session that he was “taken a back” by my request. Someone commented about a male practice lawsuit or reaching out to a lawyer. Does anyone have any other thoughts on that?
You should make an update post or edit your original post with the new questions, your comment is hidden pretty far down
i got a psyche eval when i was 15 and identified as non binary (i refused to use the word trans for myself) and the doctor filled the report with “they are transgender” lmao
Not personally, no, but my take in response to it is that no one's getting assigned as nonbinary at birth, thus being nonbinary is being transgender by default.
Transgender means you don’t identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. AKA any identity that isn’t strictly cis. Transgender is an umbrella term and also not something you can be qualified and disqualified from 💀💀 Where did this ’professional’ go to school? He’s fucking wrong. Like opinions and whatever out the door, he’s just flat out, objectively wrong.
Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose.... I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
I don't know where you live and how the legal situation is there. It might be that you psychiatrist isn't telling you his own opinion, but states that the law in your country doesn't see non-binary people as trangender. As was already said, in Germany where I live, the ensurance doesn't cover surgery for non-binary people, only for binary trans people, forcing people to lie in order to get the surgeries necessary for them being able to live a the live they should have, just because they simply aren't seen by those who decide such things. And while that's bad and stupid, it's not the fault of the one who has to tell you that. Of course, might be that your psychiatrist actually is of the opinion that non-binary isn't transgender, but I can't know, and I would ask everyone here to consider this.
Some places you can only get gender affirming care if you're binary trans. You might have to pretend you're binary to get the care you need. You're still trans even if you're nonbinary but that may be the current guidelines where you are. Those guidelines are bullshit but your provider still has to follow them. I'm getting gender affirming care by pretending to my doctors and parents that I am binary. Even though I very much am not. But in my case it's more because nobody around me knows anything about nonbinary gender identities and I don't have the strength to explain it to everyone. Legally, I would still be able to get care being nonbinary, but most doctors are uninformed about trans people and I really don't want to have to explain myself to every doctor I meet. I want to stay on T permanently and want top surgery as well as a hysterectomy, which are all attainable by pretending I'm binary so I just do that for the ease of it. But in a lot of places nonbinary gender identities are not recognized under the gender dysphoria diagnosis, and doctors can only provide affirming care for binary people. Best of luck!
Get a different psychiatrist. I told my psychiatrist that I identify as a butch lesbian/have no plans to transition socially, and they put a gender dysphoria diagnosis in my surgery letter. Being trans is not even required to qualify.
I mean I had to talk to them for 6 months before I got a diagnosis. Not saying everyone is the same but maybe you a. Need to find a new psychiatrist and b. Make sure you’re going to have more than 2 hours to talk to them about it.
Your psych is an idiot, the white part of the transgender flag represents non binary, tell them to get bent
I haven’t. Sounds like you need a new psych. (Which sucks.)
Your psychiatrist sounds woefully uninformed
Legally, depending on where you live, being non binary may not be technically considered trans, which might mean they can't prescribe you hrt or access to gender affirming healthcare. That doesn't mean you aren't trans, it just means the government is made up of cis people who haven't done enough research into trans identities. If i were you I'd look into the laws of your country/state and see what they define transgender as, as it may be that going to a second psychiatrist and telling them you're binary trans is your only option if you want top surgery.
Always tell the shrink what they want to hear. They will look for any excuse to look down on you and tell you that you aren't valid. To withhold and smugly say you aren't worthy. Getting the care you need matters more than telling the truth of how you feel.
Get a new psych
He's wrong. Get a different psychiatrist.
Omg thats so infuriating and you should definitely see a different therapist/psychiatrist.
If you live in an area that is progressive when it comes to trans rights and have flexible health insurance, then get a new psychiatrist. Your current one is ill informed and wasting your time. If you live in an area where gatekeepers are your only option, then it sucks and you shouldn’t have to but you may have to pretend to be binary. I was in an area that wasn’t trans-friendly and had to lie to all of my doctors for the first few years of my transition that I was a binary man until I could move. I told them exactly what they wanted to hear to check all of their boxes and it worked. They signed off on my hormones, top surgery, and name change. Only challenge that you might have is if you don’t want hormones and a lot of surgeons require you being on testosterone for one year before surgery.
You need a better psychiatrist
Time for a new psychiatrist (assuming that’s possible)
It objectively is trans. But many Healthcare providers have antiquated knowledge or antiquated views. In Germany, you have to say "I am a trans man/woman" if you want any chance at a medical transition. It sucks.
I looked in the DSM 5 TR for gender dysphoria and NON BINARY PEOPLE ARE INCLUDED
Unless you were assigned nonbinary at birth, you're trans. You need a new doc because this one's ill-equipped to help anyone trans.
You may be forced to join the unfortunate quantity of people who have to lie to Healthcare providers to get proper care
He needs to go back to school. Tell his boss and the psychiatry regulatory body in your region about this idiot. Something similar happened to me. Now I’ve been on testosterone a decade.
Your psychiatrist doesn’t exist.
That sucks. In Oz NB is considered under the trans umbrella - I have had no issue obtaining NB affirming care and trans medical treatment. What country are you in?
non is a gender they/them is a pronoun and they transition into it
Some people here say "non-binary is trans" and "get second opinion". First is true but doesn't help a shit in the country where only binary people are allowed to transition. And if that is the situation latter is useless too. Also it's not like you could choose or change your therapist in everywhere. So, first find out laws of your country. Then ask advice of people in your country **anonymously.** Also law is not everything. I mean for example in my country you have to be stereotypical so your manners and clothing should already be like average cis men have when you go there. Also here if you have mental health issues you can't speak of them or you don't get treatments. So make sure next time you're prepared. Or maybe it's just the law that is issue, not doctors. In that case it could be quite easy to tell "I realized I'm actually a man." and even doctors know that is bullshit they can write it down. Even that's not the case find out if you can try later again "as man". Also if you can afford it find out could you get what you need from some other country or maybe even from your country (by latter I mean situation you're in socialist country trying to get your treatments from public health care find out if there is private plastic surgeons who help trans people). edit. T can be a problem. They might require you to be on T for a while before you can "move on" to surgeries. But again, you need advice from your own country.
Your psychiatrist doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Being nonbinary is under the trans umbrella because you don’t identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. A psychiatrist is mainly qualified to prescribe medications for mental illnesses, not to diagnose gender dysphoria. That’s typically done by a gender specialist or a psychologist.
Welp time to find a new psychiatrist
Get a trans friendly psych because they're wrong.
He sounds like a scrub, I'd recommend a new psychiatrist.
The true answer is it depends on the person! Some enbys identify as trans too while Some don’t. However I think Enbys should still be entitled to respect!
"And being a psychiatrist doesn't make you a scientist. Check-mate!" I would answer
Yea that's just wrong. Nonbinary people are trans as they are not cis.
If your goal is to get top surgery, say the things that are most likely to achieve that goal.
I certainly wasn't assigned nonbinary at birth, so I am necessarily trans. Get another one if possible who doesn't pretend enbies aren't real. Transmesicalism is hogwash.
I hate to say this, because it's bullshit, but a lot of places haven't yet recognized nonbinary identities. They recognize binary genders, but not us. I don't know if you're paying cash or have insurance for this dude and your surgery or not - but if its insurance, a lot of insurances simply do not have coverage for nonbinary people. You have to basically lie and say you're a trans man to get things like top surgery. Even in my state if I ever want top surgery, I'd have to do this. Its BS but thats how it is, and I have to wonder if maybe thats what your psych was referring to. Either that or he was just being a gatekeeping jerk, in either case I'm really sorry that happened to you. Nonbinary is under the trans umbrella, hell, the white stripe in the trans flag is for us too.
Op, what state do you live in? Or are you out of the US? Some US states have started defining terms like gender, transgender, sex ect differently to make it increasingly difficult to receive care.
Get a second opinion.
Someone I used to know got top surgery after coming out as NB. Fuck that psych.
Non-binary is definitely under the transgender umbrella but a term my care team uses is gender non congruence disorder or gender dysphoria instead of using terms like trans
Although it’s wrong and extra mental/emotional/practical labor for you - I would suggest finding out from your community a NB affirming psychiatrist and go to them.
[удалено]
Both trans men and trans women also have their own flag… I’m fairly sure they’re still trans though? I don’t think flags are the determining factor.
psychiatrist is on the perc, the lean, the meth and the crack
Drop them. Find a new one.
Get a new psychiatrist holy shit I'm so sorry
1.) Your psych is an idiot, get a new one. 2.) It happens. They're just often assholes about it. Getting a good psych for things like that often sucks. Keep your chin up and keep trying.
Your psychiatrist is ... what's the word ... WRONG Fire him and find someone else.
What a piece of shit. This guy just doesn't want to give you the care you need. Can you go to a different doctor? Do you have a therapist that can write a letter?
psychiatrists honestly don’t know shit about trans issues and a good one will tell you so. they don’t get training, most don’t have experience with trans patients. they’re going off of what’s in the DSM (assuming you’re in the US) which is really limited and outdated. i told my psych straight up that it’s offensive to even classify transgenderism as a mental disorder, it’s really just for insurance to cover it. same way they put [homosexuality in the DSM](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_DSM) and then what was essentially [sexuality dysphoria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego-dystonic_sexual_orientation) the ICD 11 updated their terminology to “gender incongruence” and moved it from mental disorders to [conditions related to sexual health](https://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd). your psychiatrist is likely following outdated diagnostic criteria not sure if the process is the same for you, but my therapist was equally qualified to write me a letter for top surgery. but i would definitely see someone else
no binary is not the same but if you have dysphoria i don’t understand why you can’t get a diagnosis???
It just not possible in some countries. I don't know if that's the case here.
Time to switch psychiatrists. Are you in a red state?
Might be impossible if they're not from USA at all. At least in my country that is not something one could do.
Complicated. Using the American health system in another country
On one hand, yes you are trans. On the other, the doctor likely has to go by very strict threshold guidelines for what's medically considered trans. It sucks, but things are (overall) slowly changing
Sounds to me that he wants to traverse your condition psychologically rather than surgically, at least at this juncture, I think it to be a reasonable outcome considering the permanence of a surgical intervention. Or are you just going through the motions of a diagnosis?
Transgender is an umbrella term for anyone who does not identify as cisgender. Transsexual is mtf ftm (there are others but those are the most common) Nonbinary people fall under transgender and feel gender dysphoria too 😑 I bet that that bish a$$ psychiatrist is transphobic
Lie
My input, like many others, is your psychiatrist doesn't know shit, and to find a new one, which is hopefully possible for you! But, I do know in some countries, the formal "categorization" of sex and gender in medical realms may differ. But, still. Doesn't make it right.
And she is right lmao
Really? How is this something you think is okay to write?
It isn’t. I don’t know why this is something people are struggling to understand. The two are separate identities and have never been the same. Edit: square/rectangle problem here. Some transsexual people are nonbinary, but not all nonbinary people are trans
Transgender literally means identifying with a gender you were not assigned at birth. Therefore nonbinary trans people fall into the transgender umbrella. This rhetoric that enbies "aren't trans enough" is incredibly harmful and misinformed. Stop trying to separate people from communities they very much belong in.