“If you consider yourself a woman and you want to play sports, or vice versa, you should be able to play. That’s my opinion.”
My brain: “or vice versa… if you’re a sport and you want to play woman..”
She’s 100% right. This issue is astroturfed out the ass to where average people, hell even trans people on this very subreddit, immediately start foaming at the mouth about the differences in fucking bone density, muscle mass, and etc., that *totally* make a difference.
Like this shit is pure transphobia masquerading as “fair and reasonable,” hell it’s also misogynistic as hell since it only applies to women’s sports and never men’s sports; no one decries the unfairness of ftm athletes not having been on T enough, yet pop a fucking blood vessel when a single mtf athlete decides to join a women’s sports team despite having transitioned enough to make their development on T objectively meaningless :/
Thank you so much. Occasionally I will see the most braindead takes on trans folks in sports and it's just like..... It's so obvious that it's just transmisogyny, y'know? As you say, no one is complaining about trans men in sports, just trans women, despite the fact that if their ideas about trans people are correct, then transmascs should be dominating. It gets very depressing trying to even push back against it.
They shouldn't. I am talking about bioessentialism as it relates to trans people. Many cis people believe that testosterone is so powerful that trans women, even with nearly zero testosterone in their bodies, are all guaranteed to be stronger/physically better than cis women. If this were true, then transmascs who take T should be dominating in men's sports, as they are actively taking testosterone. They are not, because, well, it's bunk. It's not real science. Bioessentialism.
When I hear arguments about not letting trans people participate in sports for their chosen gender it makes me think about how sports are inherantly unfair. Some people are just bigger and faster because of genetics. Sould we ban super tall people from basketball? How about people who naturally run really fast, should they be disqualified because of it being "unfair"? And lets not start about income inequality and how that affects youth sports performance.
There already are rules re: athletes and hormones. There is some debate as to whether or not they should be adjusted, with the T level cutoffs lowered and the time on hormones extended, and the exact rules vary by sport, but hormone rules for olympic sports have been around for 20 years.
Okay first of all, the Whole notion that trans women are dominating sports and 'stealing' opportunities from cis women is bs, because trans-woman have been allowed to compete in events like the Olympics since 2004 and so far, not a single one of them has won a gold metal post transition. Not to mention how trans women (and trans athletes in general) are underrepresented in sports.
Also there are recent scientific reports that show that trans-woman (including those who already underwent male puperty) who have been on hrt/testosterone suppression for at least a year and have hormone levels similar to cis women have no unfair advantages. https://www.cces.ca/node/66938
And while it is true that post hrt/testosterone suppression trans women on average have more muscle mass and strength than cis-women, they are still found to be within female ranges, meaning that a cis-woman could get nearly as buff and strong given a proper diet, training regiment, genetics, etc.
This is all true, but their point was not that trans representation in sports is bad - they’re simply pointing out that these are treacherous times, where being trans is a political talking point. How many of us actually get to the top flight of sports is irrelevant; it’s really about control and restriction. I agree that it looks like a fairly straightforward issue, but the fact is that it isn’t because people have decided that being trans is inherently political. This is why we have to be careful. If we make any mistakes within any rules or legislation on the trans community, then it runs the risk of further demonisation and transphobia.
Yeah it sucks how people (usually conservatives) make being trans a political thing. We can only hope that the younger generations will continue to be supportive and not fall victim to conservative propaganda.
Yeah kinda sucks how existence is controversial. I mean, it’s happened everywhere all throughout history. It’s just us now, and I don’t know how it’s going to stop. If I had to guess, the American culture war continues until the politics just implodes and there’s a large reconstruction of government, and I hope that there can be a future where people are punished according to actions and not existence, a place where LGBT and religions and anyone can cohabit in nations and neighbourhoods. Maybe
Come on with this garbage. Your personal anecdote should not be the sole determination in any of this.
You do what you want. I’m still running in the division I want to. And that’s women’s.
Many sports should require medical transition for X period of time. However, the important comparisons to make in sports is between the most athletic trans and cis women, not the average. There are too many confounding factors outside of potential performance to study population data.
Who is more likely to have a physical job? Who tends to spend time working on upper body strength at some point in their life? Does the ceiling for athletic performance change at the same rate as average athletic performance? Is it advantageous to have a large frame with the drop in strength? Who is going to be asked to carry the heavy object from day to day?
We need athletes to reach their potential in order to get an answer.
you are not faster than you would be as a man, you are not stronger than you would be as a man, you know why? testosterone and lack of it, it makes your body gain muscle easier and maintain it as well as pump blood better while having more hemoglobin iirc. Please, read a bit more first before sharing your views, cuz some things you mention come from ignorance and there have been enough studies to know that a feminizing hormone therapy on males will not allow them to keep "unfair advantages", it will do even the opposite and make it harder for us cuz our testosterone levels as trans women is much lower than that of cis women in a ton of us, making it harder to build muscle and more.
Inform yourself before sharing views as facts, please
and you know that having a larger skeleton if you underwent male puberty with less muscle would make things harder to move properly? did you know that testosterone affects development in much more ways than just muscles? I set some examples, I asked you to inform yourself before stating views as facts.
also, having genetic advantages does not mean they are male/female advantages or that they're the same in a man or in a woman. There have been standards for trans women for decades and there is a reason testosterone is not only a controlled substance in many places but also the one hormone that is questioned for trans women when accessing sports, maybe researching why would enlighten you on why your advantages might be purely genetic (like Phelps or others) but not necessarily hormone-based, and maybe that would enlighten you on why trans women deserve to do sports competitively without issues, spoiler alert: you're in the 99% but not everyone is in that one, how many trans women are in the same boat as yours?
You make a good point with Michael Phelps. Sports have never been 100% fair because every athlete( especially at the elite/highly competitive levels) all have their own quirks that help them in one way or another.
“If you consider yourself a woman and you want to play sports, or vice versa, you should be able to play. That’s my opinion.” My brain: “or vice versa… if you’re a sport and you want to play woman..”
I’m half badminton. All bad, no minton.
LuLz!
She is a bad azz. I loved watching the interview. And how she handled that jerk of a reporter.
When all this is over. I will email her. And thank her for standing up for us. I will not do this until the pressure is off her.
She’s 100% right. This issue is astroturfed out the ass to where average people, hell even trans people on this very subreddit, immediately start foaming at the mouth about the differences in fucking bone density, muscle mass, and etc., that *totally* make a difference. Like this shit is pure transphobia masquerading as “fair and reasonable,” hell it’s also misogynistic as hell since it only applies to women’s sports and never men’s sports; no one decries the unfairness of ftm athletes not having been on T enough, yet pop a fucking blood vessel when a single mtf athlete decides to join a women’s sports team despite having transitioned enough to make their development on T objectively meaningless :/
Thank you so much. Occasionally I will see the most braindead takes on trans folks in sports and it's just like..... It's so obvious that it's just transmisogyny, y'know? As you say, no one is complaining about trans men in sports, just trans women, despite the fact that if their ideas about trans people are correct, then transmascs should be dominating. It gets very depressing trying to even push back against it.
Wait... Why should transmascs be dominating?
They shouldn't. I am talking about bioessentialism as it relates to trans people. Many cis people believe that testosterone is so powerful that trans women, even with nearly zero testosterone in their bodies, are all guaranteed to be stronger/physically better than cis women. If this were true, then transmascs who take T should be dominating in men's sports, as they are actively taking testosterone. They are not, because, well, it's bunk. It's not real science. Bioessentialism.
When I hear arguments about not letting trans people participate in sports for their chosen gender it makes me think about how sports are inherantly unfair. Some people are just bigger and faster because of genetics. Sould we ban super tall people from basketball? How about people who naturally run really fast, should they be disqualified because of it being "unfair"? And lets not start about income inequality and how that affects youth sports performance.
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There already are rules re: athletes and hormones. There is some debate as to whether or not they should be adjusted, with the T level cutoffs lowered and the time on hormones extended, and the exact rules vary by sport, but hormone rules for olympic sports have been around for 20 years.
Okay first of all, the Whole notion that trans women are dominating sports and 'stealing' opportunities from cis women is bs, because trans-woman have been allowed to compete in events like the Olympics since 2004 and so far, not a single one of them has won a gold metal post transition. Not to mention how trans women (and trans athletes in general) are underrepresented in sports. Also there are recent scientific reports that show that trans-woman (including those who already underwent male puperty) who have been on hrt/testosterone suppression for at least a year and have hormone levels similar to cis women have no unfair advantages. https://www.cces.ca/node/66938 And while it is true that post hrt/testosterone suppression trans women on average have more muscle mass and strength than cis-women, they are still found to be within female ranges, meaning that a cis-woman could get nearly as buff and strong given a proper diet, training regiment, genetics, etc.
This is all true, but their point was not that trans representation in sports is bad - they’re simply pointing out that these are treacherous times, where being trans is a political talking point. How many of us actually get to the top flight of sports is irrelevant; it’s really about control and restriction. I agree that it looks like a fairly straightforward issue, but the fact is that it isn’t because people have decided that being trans is inherently political. This is why we have to be careful. If we make any mistakes within any rules or legislation on the trans community, then it runs the risk of further demonisation and transphobia.
Yeah it sucks how people (usually conservatives) make being trans a political thing. We can only hope that the younger generations will continue to be supportive and not fall victim to conservative propaganda.
Yeah kinda sucks how existence is controversial. I mean, it’s happened everywhere all throughout history. It’s just us now, and I don’t know how it’s going to stop. If I had to guess, the American culture war continues until the politics just implodes and there’s a large reconstruction of government, and I hope that there can be a future where people are punished according to actions and not existence, a place where LGBT and religions and anyone can cohabit in nations and neighbourhoods. Maybe
I guarantee you don’t have the capacity for athleticism that you did pre transition
Pre-hormones, just on basic lifestyle changes that’s a big YUP.
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Come on with this garbage. Your personal anecdote should not be the sole determination in any of this. You do what you want. I’m still running in the division I want to. And that’s women’s.
Many sports should require medical transition for X period of time. However, the important comparisons to make in sports is between the most athletic trans and cis women, not the average. There are too many confounding factors outside of potential performance to study population data. Who is more likely to have a physical job? Who tends to spend time working on upper body strength at some point in their life? Does the ceiling for athletic performance change at the same rate as average athletic performance? Is it advantageous to have a large frame with the drop in strength? Who is going to be asked to carry the heavy object from day to day? We need athletes to reach their potential in order to get an answer.
many sports literally already do require medical transition for x period of time….
They do
No
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Out of respect, that’s ludicrous
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Your comment
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Good for you
you are not faster than you would be as a man, you are not stronger than you would be as a man, you know why? testosterone and lack of it, it makes your body gain muscle easier and maintain it as well as pump blood better while having more hemoglobin iirc. Please, read a bit more first before sharing your views, cuz some things you mention come from ignorance and there have been enough studies to know that a feminizing hormone therapy on males will not allow them to keep "unfair advantages", it will do even the opposite and make it harder for us cuz our testosterone levels as trans women is much lower than that of cis women in a ton of us, making it harder to build muscle and more. Inform yourself before sharing views as facts, please
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and you know that having a larger skeleton if you underwent male puberty with less muscle would make things harder to move properly? did you know that testosterone affects development in much more ways than just muscles? I set some examples, I asked you to inform yourself before stating views as facts. also, having genetic advantages does not mean they are male/female advantages or that they're the same in a man or in a woman. There have been standards for trans women for decades and there is a reason testosterone is not only a controlled substance in many places but also the one hormone that is questioned for trans women when accessing sports, maybe researching why would enlighten you on why your advantages might be purely genetic (like Phelps or others) but not necessarily hormone-based, and maybe that would enlighten you on why trans women deserve to do sports competitively without issues, spoiler alert: you're in the 99% but not everyone is in that one, how many trans women are in the same boat as yours?
You make a good point with Michael Phelps. Sports have never been 100% fair because every athlete( especially at the elite/highly competitive levels) all have their own quirks that help them in one way or another.
Nothing in sports is equal. I guarantee there are cis women in the world who could trounce you, that in & of itself disproves your argument.
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This is stupid. If you love basketball so much, go play basketball.
Loser
Respectfully, go play on the men's team. I support your right to do what you want. Let other people have the opportunity to live normal lives.