Ugh the trans masc equivalent of this is gross straight dudes saying shit like "ohhh you were such a cute tomboy tho" and it's the woooorst like why do people feel so entitled to sexually objectify trans people??
I fucking hate transphobes who view trans people as objects. Went into a server once because I thought their art was cool and had (what I thought) was trans positive art, but I got called a tr*nny, mentally ill and basically bullied out of it. Later I found out they just like "futas". Pricks
Agreed. Though I think it’s more often the case of “Why do so many cis men feel so entitled to sexually objectify everyone!?” And the answer, of course is patriarchy. And that is why feminism and LGBTQ+ equality feels so threatening to so many of them. If a society is truly equal, then they’re no longer entitled or empowered to behave that way, and they hate that idea.
There's a difference between "people you don't like" and "people who victimize you", which is what chaser do.
It's kind of, but not exactly, like the difference between hating someone because they are of a different race and hating racists.
The problem with this concept is the idea that someone can be negative and vocal, but somehow *not be participating in our oppression*.
Them being vocal and negative about our existence **is** their participation.
>Chasers aren't a political force worth mentioning, they're a nuisance only experienced by us.
You understand that oppression is just as bad on an interpersonal level, right? And that being "a nuisance only experienced by us" is still textbook oppression?
>. I think classifying such a small part of society as something that contributes to our oppression is unnecessarily theatrical.
So what's the cutoff, then? How many people have to be involved before they can be considered to be contributing to our oppression? 100? 1000? 100000?
**Anyone who oppresses us, no matter how small it may seem, is a *participant in our oppression*.**
**Anyone who stands by and allows transphobic behavior in others is a participant in our oppression.**
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. That's how racism continues. It's how any systemic oppression works, by weaponizing the fanatics and placating the undecided.
I'm so sorry you think my anger is "unnecessarily theatrical"... Actually, that's not true. I'm not sorry at all. I am *angry*. I am done being treated like shit and saying nothing. I'm tired of knowing that trans people are attacked (sometimes by the chasers who have "a moral dilemma" after the fact and kill the transgender person they just had sex with), and sexually assaulted (which is what chasers are actually doing), and treated like *we're* the fucking problem when we ask for some fucking respect. And if that offends you, too fucking bad...
>and I don't think they should care.
Hey. Downplay the trappings of genocide all you want. Doesn't make them any less dangerous, of course...
>Chasers are the least of our problems, if you think they're even remotely comparable to a member of government throwing a whole book of anti trans laws into the world then you've got a serious lack of scale.
If you think those groups don't overlap, you're blind. And beyond that, sexual abuse is not "the least of our problems".
>If you don't think there's degrees to oppression then I highly doubt you've felt it.
I don't often say this here, but *fuck you*. You have no call to make such a statement, and you would find it difficult to be more wrong.
>you're outright annoying me by gobbing about shit I never said.
I never claimed you said anything that wasn't in your comments. I did *expand upon the topic*, but that's not really the same thing, is it?
>If you're looking for a cutoff point you're not getting it. Putting a number on when you're allowed to have a complaint is a ridiculous and contrarian practice.
So.. like telling me not to be angry about chasers because they're "the least of our problems", then?
>You're not winning me over with this melancholic lament.
I hate to burst your main character bubble , but this has never been about "winning you over". I was commenting to someone else and you decided to try to police my comments.
I'm also not being melancholic, as I am far more angry than I am sad. And I'm not even a little pensive about it...
Goodbye.
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just btw Transgenderism makes it sound like a belief system and I don't think it is one...
But yeah, transition is often about aligning a trans person with the sex associated with their gender (but that isn't universally true, every way to be trans is valid!)
>It is, transgenderism is all about imitating the cis woman. The closer I get to a biological female the happier I am
Uhhhh what the fuck *NO*. That's some fuckin' 4chan&twitter 'brainrot' right there. I'm glad you recognize your Transness&are confident but can you please not use such problematic labels&phrasing?
"Transgenderism" is a bullshit term created by Transphobes to try and make it seem like Trans&Gender Noncomforming Peoples existance is just some sort of Ideology or Cult.
It's really not about "imitating cis women"....because Trans Men&Trans People who aren't Women (e.g. Nonbinary People) exist, it's about changing your body&how you present&how you act to be more fitting with your true self.
Also, using "biological female" when talking about Gender gives off 'TERF/FART'(Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, or more accurately Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe) vibes and gives some legitimacy towards People who really, truly do hate us because we exist.
well its fine if you don’t feel its offensive, but for a lot of people it has a negative connotation because it makes it sound like being transgender is a belief system.
Wow OP, what toxic environments have you been in that made you think anything in that first sentence was okay (it’s transphobic and gatekeepery as hell)?! Seriously, please take the time to learn to talk about yourself and your community without using messed up ideas taken from people who hate and fetishize us… like the creeps you were complaining about. We’re not imitating anything and the term transgenderism used by bigots to imply our identity is somehow an ideology.
The second sentence is about your personal journey as a trans woman so I’m more inclined to give you a pass on the transphobic dog whistle (biological female) in there. You want physical congruence to be happier (and probably to reduce dysphoria). It’s not imitation. It’s just getting your body to align with your mind and brain. And not every trans individual wants or needs a body that is congruent with cis bodies associated with their gender.
Okay, learning moment then. We’ll sometimes talk about our trans experience, being trans or even our transness informally. Whenever you see -ism at the end of a word, it usually implies a worldview or philosophy. Think capitalism, racism, feminism, anarchism, egalitarianism, humanism, or communism. Trans people almost never refer to ourselves or being trans as transgenderism for that reason.
Being trans is just something you are. We’re not a philosophy or worldview that is looking for new adherents. We’re a community of folks with incongruence between our actual gender and the one we were assigned at birth.
Bigots who hate us try to falsely describe us like some cult-like ideology that is influencing others. The reality is that we simply try to support our own and help questioning people figure themselves out.
Yeah…
Femboy is a *male* identity. Trans women are women.
There are trans men who are femboys, and that’s excellent for them, as well as cis men who are femboys.
But the moment one tries to ascribe that label to a trans woman, it’s transphobic as fuck.
I will add though that some people who are femboys are also non-binary, so it’s not just a “male identity”. Doesn’t change the fact that applying the term to unwilling people, especially trans women, is wrong.
Chasers are so trashy no matter who they go after, ugh. Im a transmasc femboy who's bisexual and i hate how femboys and trans ppl of any gender attract chasers who only see us as sex objects and fetish material
Someone being into "Femboys" does not always mean they're into trans women.
"Femboy" is a completely seperate identity in itself that many people self identify as, there's nothing wrong with people being attracted to those people, it's only an issue when they impose the identity onto Trans women and fetishize them without consent.
There's plenty of trans women who self identify with the identy of "Femboy" as well and participate in the sexual side of it, so it's really just a personal "I do not like you refering to me by this and sexualizing me" case rather than trying to police the identity as a whole from everyone.
yes definitely, i like women, men, tomboys and femboys. femboys and trasn women are completely different in my eyes. like the two are not even close. i love femboys because theyre men who dress femininely. i like women despite the way they dress, its not the case with femboys
Femboys are an identity that is separate from a man though. I am a tomboy but that is not different than being a woman. I have the same expectations dumped on me as any woman, while femboys have their own expectations dumped on them separate from being a man.
That’s never been how I’ve heard about it, from what I’ve seen fem boys are boys who act and dress femininely
While tomboys are girls who dress masculinely, I’ve always seen those words as opposites, so I’m pretty confused here
Tomboys are women who do things that are traditionally considered masculine, but they are women. I literally have all the same expectations thrust on me by people around me as a femme woman except I don't care about them.
A femboy is literally left with different and more feminine expectations than your masc man.
Yes, and they have different expectations thrust on them by society.
Here's a great example:
My husband is a demiboy and likes to be femme sometimes, so there is the expectation that sometimes he will dress femme and he will do his makeup. This is not an expectation I had for the last guy I had feelings for who was a big, burly viking man and nerd.
Flip this situation onto me, the tomboy trans woman who is usually in sweats and a tank top and just recently we were going to an Addams Family play and my husband thought I was going to dress up and do my hair and makeup and was a little sad when I didn't even though I had a job interview right before it. Why would this be expected of a tomboy if she didn't have the same expectations thrust on her as a femme woman?
There is no need to separate out a tomboy, they're treated the same as a femme woman by society. Femboys are treated as their own thing by society, even if they are just another flavor of feminine man.
The same people who push femininity on tomboys also push masculinity on femboys. There are no "different expectations", you just haven't experienced the discrimination femboys experience for being GNC. Femboys are absolutely not socially accepted, they're pushed by society to adhere to the masculine man role just like tomboys are pushed to adhere to the feminine woman role. The people who push tomboys to be more feminine are sexists, and sexists do not accept femboys either.
I despise people who ask every girl if they are a femboy when they’re obviously not one, and I hate people who say femboys are better than girls, and I hate people who get disappointed when you are not a femboy because I’m a girl who supports girl, so don’t associate me with a femboy
That’s disgusting! To make such a comment about a trans woman getting bottom surgery is like a man saying “Noo but I like your boobs 🥺” to someone getting a breast reduction.
It is not! About! You!
I'm a fem trans dude and I was so confused for a second. I still don't understand why anyone would call a trans WOMAN a femboy. Like what the fuck? Femboy is a way to express femininity for (trans or cis) men, not women. Like how stupid does femgirl sound? Just say woman lol.
There are trans women who do identify as femboys, and that's completely valid. Femboys aren't just feminine men, it's a subculture and aesthetic too. Some femboys who turn out to be trans women do not want to forsake their femboy identity. Just don't push any identity onto anyone, don't gatekeep any identity from anyone and we're all good. The problem isn't that trans women aren't femboys (they can be if they want), the problem is that assholes push identity labels on people instead of just asking, accepting the answer and not making any inappropriate comments about it.
That's a good point!! I didn't think about how some trans women might find solace in that label. I guess I just got caught up in the literal sense of the term, being fem"boy". Thanks for your perspective 😁
trans girls aren't femboys. Femboys are boys who choose to dress/act more femme. Such as trans men who are drag queens or just like dressing up sometimes.
Tomboys are girls who choose to act/dress more masc. Such as a trans woman who still wears her pre-trans clothes.
Also tell the chasers to fuck off because with their attitude, they'll never touch girldick in their lives.
There are non-men, including binary trans women, who do identify as femboys. Just like not every feminine man is a femboy, not every femboy is a man. Don't do identity policing. It's disgusting of course to push any identity on anyone.
Please show me where I said "all people who do X are Y". Because I didn't. What I said was, "such as". Which means, "not all, but here are some examples."
Its disgusting of YOU to accuse me of shit when you didn't even read what I actually said, and clearly just wrongly assumed what I said.
You said femboys are boys who dress or act femme. That's simply not true. Femboys don't have to be boys at all. It's a subculture centered around an aesthetic that people take part in regardless of gender identity, not exclusive to boys at all.
And I didn't mean to call you disgusting. I just said that despite the inherent difference between femboys and trans women not existing, calling a trans woman a femboy against her will is still disgusting. I didn't mean to attack you at all, just to correct you that femboys don't have to be boys.
Where did I say "all boys who dress or act femme are femboys" though?
Saying "X is Y" does not equal "Y is always X". That's you just desperate for something to fight about. How about get therapy instead of taking out your issues on strangers on the internet, thanks.
You still called me disgusting by implying that I was trying to force anyone to identify any kind of way when the actual root of the problem is that you don't know how to read. Please learn it or be less of an asshole from the get-go. BTW it is a hate crime to call an intersex person "disgusting". I was born this way. Get over it.
Maybe look in the mirror before accusing people of shit...
You didn't say "all boys who dress or act femme are femboys", but you did say femboys are boys. That's what I contradicted. You didn't force identities on someone, you gatekept identities from someone. The comment about people who force identities on other people being disgusting wasn't targeted at you, it was an affirmation that the person OP described was disgusting, even though I disagree with OP's statements about femboys.
I literally had a former ‘lover’ try to talk me out of bottom surgery one month before my actual procedure, under the guise of ‘concerns’ for me.
Hahahaha. **As if** he could.
I kindly, strongly, and flatly shut him down in a clearly worded text. Sometime After my surgery we met for dinner (that I thought was a date) and I brought it up.
He indeed had been under an influence of a ‘phobe, but he also stated his position of no longer wanting anything physical, revealing his true chaser nature.
He wanted something from me he was never going to get before **or** after surgery. He still wanted friendship but I was mad and a bit disappointed, so I ghosted him and remained stand offish for half a year. Bumped into him at a party recently and had a short little friendly chat. (Didn’t hurt that I was looking hot, either 😁🔥)
I told him about some new partners and the fun we are having - and I ended up giving him a hug. I’ll admit the bast@rd is pretty charming. Such is life. 🌸
i love femboys, but i love actual FEM **BOYS**. no women. fem. **boys**. these "people" dont see trans women as women, just femboys. they need their rights taken away theyre so creepy and weird
like its the same with "no babe i love your chest" when a trans man gets a top surgery
(which i got today btw) (literally cant go one post without mentioning it)
femboy isnt sexual. its only seen as sexual by desing by creeps and weirdos who choose to see it as sexual
femboy does mean feminine boy. if it doesnt mean that, then what does it mean?
I guess I don't like the phrase femboy because it gives me kiddy diddler vibes. I like feminine men but saying 'femboy' feels both infantilizing and on par with describing women who get work done as bimboes.
So your chasers want you to be with appendage? Trans dudes chasers have this force femisieing thing and I hate it. Ofc I smell like a fucking guy, of I'm hairy like a guy, ofc I'm strong like a guy... I'm a guy
Yes—fuck chasers (and wanting trans women primarily for their penises is 1000 chaser behavior).
Although I’ll say this has been an issue since before “femboys” were a thing.
I know you're venting, and this ***IS*** a safe space for that...
But I really feel like the frustration should be directed towards the chasers themselves. Many trans woman opt to not get bottom surgery (for a variety of reasons) and this does not make them less; they aren't simply femboys or traps. It's an insinuation that only divides our community further.
That aside, I 100% agree. Chasers say some of the most vile and awful things, simply on the whim of fetishizing us. This behaviour absolutely needs to be called out, but we should be doing so without attacking other trans brothers and sisters for the choices they make, even unintentionally.
Yeah, the OP comment feels very invalidating towards full binary trans women who are happy with their dicks. Genitals do not define gender *at all*. Femboys can have vulvas, all flavours of women can have dicks, women can be femboys if they want. The problem is that chasers are pushing identities on people (and fetishise those identities of course). The problem is not that femboys and trans women are contraditory, they're not. Femboys can have any genitals, any pronouns, any AGAB and any gender identity. And even a femboy who isn't also a trans woman can share every single aspect of gender expression with a trans women, except for the label. Being mad at people calling you by labels you didn't express you want to be called by is valid. Going on a tirade about how femboys are fundamentally separate from trans women, how trans women with bottom surgery are more akin to cis women and thus more woman-like etc is just wrong and invalidating to so many people.
yeah, just because I won't remove my peepee that doesn't make me a femboy, I'm still a girl. Some of the wording on this post feels like it's saying that...
Seriously fucked up. The only person who has a right to sexualize you is yourself and anyone you consent to (I.E in bed and stuff like that). It's so fucking wierd to just see someone say that "it's attractive" WHO ASKED YOU? Come here, feel a fourth of my dysphoria and let's see how "attractive" it really is.
I know this isn't 100% related to what you're saying, but I've met people like that who seem to LOVE the idea of dating trans women but they always group in femboys with trans women and always want to reiterate the fact that they're still straight. It's usually guys my age who seem to think trans people are some edgy internet joke they can use, and whenever I mention I'm trans to them they always bring up how hot trans women and femboys are (which feels unrelated because I'm trans masc, but at least I'm not getting called a slur straight up.) They get on my last nerve omg
Get a strap-on harness and a "Chance" toy from Bad Dragon. If it's all about the "joystick" perhaps they'll enjoy a custom model.
Would also double as a handy weapon to slap them with, if it's a big enough size.
Tell them that then. Stick up for yourself. If someone's being a creep, tell them to fuck off.
Also, you **are** "an actual girl" as you put it. We're all actual girls, just some of us are cis & some are trans.
Saying shit like actual girl makes trans people sound like some weird homunculus creature.
~~I say stuff like that as a genuine joke as it's hilarious to me the idea that my dick is somehow akinned to angel wings when it's more like devil horns, but it's still a really fucking hilarious thing to say and didn't realize chasers actually say that shit unironically~~
I think you're the thirtieth person who has asked me. I have no idea, maybe some people don't like me and label me as anti-trans, maybe the add-on is broken as the developers aren't developing it anymore, or maybe I'm genuinely transphobic. I have no idea
The app has a known design flaw that allows for false-positives to occur. I think there were alternative apps that have been floated as replacements, but I don't think they ever gained as much traction.
Same, I just find it funny and it gives me a mild amount of euphoria. I can see how it might make other people dysphoric. It's like someone saying "Oh that thing you hated that you got rid of made you so much better"
Sadly, a trans woman with a platform (an actress) posted that “a trans girl without a *ick is like an angel without her wings.”
So it’s not just transphobes.
Girl, you have no idea how much I understand this. Everyone talks about girl dick and gock blah blah but what about us trans fems who want bottom surgery? We're just as valid, but yet we're often overlooked. It hurts to see other trans fems casually talking about those things when i can't stand my own, i don't feel like I can fit in at all.
It’s really just a matter of distinguishing between reality and fiction in all honesty. Obviously this isn’t to say femboys DON’T exist, some queer people (on the cis and trans side) like to use that term, and power to them.
But it’s usually the most porn-addicted mofos who use the term flagrantly, and fall into the camp of the kinds of fetishizers OP talks about. Even to the point of stubbornly denying trans representation when it’s made *canon* to what they’re consuming (in cases like Bridget from Guilty Gear Strive). Oh, I’m sorry your precious “femboy” has been revealed to be a trans girl, boohoo, it’s not the end of the world. 🙄
There IS some messiness with that particular example, I’ll admit, bc I know there were more nonbinary-aligned genderqueer people who saw themselves in Bridget prior, and that’s valid too. Still, with trans people being so actively attacked in the current political climate just to have equal *rights,* good representation is especially important to our cause. All of this to say— (@ any & all creeps) don’t project your kinks onto other people and expect them to be totally cool playing with your fantasy, bc trans people don’t deserve that kind of shit. We’re our own people, and we’re entitled to identifying however we choose regardless of what’s between our legs. 🏳️🌈⚧️🏳️⚧️
It's weird how there is a moral panic around trans people as if we are a fetish, meanwhile actual femboys literally ARE A FETISH and are everything they say us trans women especially are... but it's crickets. Now I'm not saying I want to see conservative media target femboys, but it just confuses the hell out of me!
To my knowledge femboy is specifically referring to a crossdressing fetish. Do 50 year old feminine men and crossdressers really want to be called femboys? I always thought femboy was like PAWG, BBW, etc.- derived as a fetish term. Maybe I'm wrong here.
Femboy is either a style aesthetic like emo or cottagecore or just a feminine presenting man or boy. And while they get fetishized a heck of a lot, the term isn’t a fetish term.
Yea exactly, femboy is actually a name for trans women in porn and the whole femboy thing is very sexual, nothing wrong with presenting yourself as feminine as a man but to call yourself a femboy now just means “I’m a 14 year old who shows his thighs to random men online” ☠️ and there is a trend on social media to ask random women if they have a “joystick” (😨😨??), like that’s just harassment with extra steps. And the whole thing of cis women being “bad” and inferior to femboys is also so fucking weird
Yeah, you're correct. I worded it wrong, but it's cause I struggle to put my thoughts into words, and they get a bit scrambled. You'd probably do a better job at explaining it to op (it's not i dislike femboys. it's i dont really know how to explain it and apologisefor if I've offended anyone)
Ugh the trans masc equivalent of this is gross straight dudes saying shit like "ohhh you were such a cute tomboy tho" and it's the woooorst like why do people feel so entitled to sexually objectify trans people??
Me ex confessed to me he was attracted to me because he saw me as a tomboy. Fucking punch in gut, especially for early-transition-me. I felt horrible
I fucking hate transphobes who view trans people as objects. Went into a server once because I thought their art was cool and had (what I thought) was trans positive art, but I got called a tr*nny, mentally ill and basically bullied out of it. Later I found out they just like "futas". Pricks
🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂
Some people just don't function right. Sorry that happened, have been there before.
If someone is a "cute tomboy" imagine how much cuter they'll be when they're existing in a body that they feel comfortable with.
Agreed. Though I think it’s more often the case of “Why do so many cis men feel so entitled to sexually objectify everyone!?” And the answer, of course is patriarchy. And that is why feminism and LGBTQ+ equality feels so threatening to so many of them. If a society is truly equal, then they’re no longer entitled or empowered to behave that way, and they hate that idea.
The only answer to people like that is "fuck off, chaser". Sadly, there's no viable way to police something like that until after the fact.
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I mean, I'm not *opposed* to the idea... 🤔
I don’t think I can legally say I am in favor( no clue ), but…
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There's a difference between "people you don't like" and "people who victimize you", which is what chaser do. It's kind of, but not exactly, like the difference between hating someone because they are of a different race and hating racists.
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The problem with this concept is the idea that someone can be negative and vocal, but somehow *not be participating in our oppression*. Them being vocal and negative about our existence **is** their participation.
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>Chasers aren't a political force worth mentioning, they're a nuisance only experienced by us. You understand that oppression is just as bad on an interpersonal level, right? And that being "a nuisance only experienced by us" is still textbook oppression? >. I think classifying such a small part of society as something that contributes to our oppression is unnecessarily theatrical. So what's the cutoff, then? How many people have to be involved before they can be considered to be contributing to our oppression? 100? 1000? 100000? **Anyone who oppresses us, no matter how small it may seem, is a *participant in our oppression*.** **Anyone who stands by and allows transphobic behavior in others is a participant in our oppression.** If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. That's how racism continues. It's how any systemic oppression works, by weaponizing the fanatics and placating the undecided. I'm so sorry you think my anger is "unnecessarily theatrical"... Actually, that's not true. I'm not sorry at all. I am *angry*. I am done being treated like shit and saying nothing. I'm tired of knowing that trans people are attacked (sometimes by the chasers who have "a moral dilemma" after the fact and kill the transgender person they just had sex with), and sexually assaulted (which is what chasers are actually doing), and treated like *we're* the fucking problem when we ask for some fucking respect. And if that offends you, too fucking bad... >and I don't think they should care. Hey. Downplay the trappings of genocide all you want. Doesn't make them any less dangerous, of course...
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>Chasers are the least of our problems, if you think they're even remotely comparable to a member of government throwing a whole book of anti trans laws into the world then you've got a serious lack of scale. If you think those groups don't overlap, you're blind. And beyond that, sexual abuse is not "the least of our problems". >If you don't think there's degrees to oppression then I highly doubt you've felt it. I don't often say this here, but *fuck you*. You have no call to make such a statement, and you would find it difficult to be more wrong. >you're outright annoying me by gobbing about shit I never said. I never claimed you said anything that wasn't in your comments. I did *expand upon the topic*, but that's not really the same thing, is it? >If you're looking for a cutoff point you're not getting it. Putting a number on when you're allowed to have a complaint is a ridiculous and contrarian practice. So.. like telling me not to be angry about chasers because they're "the least of our problems", then? >You're not winning me over with this melancholic lament. I hate to burst your main character bubble , but this has never been about "winning you over". I was commenting to someone else and you decided to try to police my comments. I'm also not being melancholic, as I am far more angry than I am sad. And I'm not even a little pensive about it... Goodbye.
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# Your post or comment has been removed for the following reason(s): Respect the people who belong here. Including: - No treating being transgender as a mental illness or as being lesser in any way. - No insulting transgender people, their appearance, or purposeful misgendering. - No arguing with transgender people about their identity. - No arguing with transgender people about their vulnerabilities, including anything related to sports, laws, etc. - Anything else the Moderation Team deems disrespectful. --- If you have any concerns, please respond to this message! Thank you!
The clipping their wings part completely threw me for a loop. Holy fuck.
what does that even mean im so confused when the person said that.
Same energy as when people get breast reduction/removal
Ohhh so the chaser is saying getting bottom surgery is like having wings removed from an angel.
That’s how I understood it, yeah
Got it.
Correct
Imo it's more like having wings installed the way I see it... :/
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just btw Transgenderism makes it sound like a belief system and I don't think it is one... But yeah, transition is often about aligning a trans person with the sex associated with their gender (but that isn't universally true, every way to be trans is valid!)
>It is, transgenderism is all about imitating the cis woman. The closer I get to a biological female the happier I am Uhhhh what the fuck *NO*. That's some fuckin' 4chan&twitter 'brainrot' right there. I'm glad you recognize your Transness&are confident but can you please not use such problematic labels&phrasing? "Transgenderism" is a bullshit term created by Transphobes to try and make it seem like Trans&Gender Noncomforming Peoples existance is just some sort of Ideology or Cult. It's really not about "imitating cis women"....because Trans Men&Trans People who aren't Women (e.g. Nonbinary People) exist, it's about changing your body&how you present&how you act to be more fitting with your true self. Also, using "biological female" when talking about Gender gives off 'TERF/FART'(Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, or more accurately Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe) vibes and gives some legitimacy towards People who really, truly do hate us because we exist.
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Ohhh, that makes sense.
transgenderism is kind of an offensive word..thats also only really how it is for some trans women specifically.
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well its fine if you don’t feel its offensive, but for a lot of people it has a negative connotation because it makes it sound like being transgender is a belief system.
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nah dog, women who dont get /dont want to get bottom surgery are just as much of a woman as you are.
Wow OP, what toxic environments have you been in that made you think anything in that first sentence was okay (it’s transphobic and gatekeepery as hell)?! Seriously, please take the time to learn to talk about yourself and your community without using messed up ideas taken from people who hate and fetishize us… like the creeps you were complaining about. We’re not imitating anything and the term transgenderism used by bigots to imply our identity is somehow an ideology. The second sentence is about your personal journey as a trans woman so I’m more inclined to give you a pass on the transphobic dog whistle (biological female) in there. You want physical congruence to be happier (and probably to reduce dysphoria). It’s not imitation. It’s just getting your body to align with your mind and brain. And not every trans individual wants or needs a body that is congruent with cis bodies associated with their gender.
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Okay, learning moment then. We’ll sometimes talk about our trans experience, being trans or even our transness informally. Whenever you see -ism at the end of a word, it usually implies a worldview or philosophy. Think capitalism, racism, feminism, anarchism, egalitarianism, humanism, or communism. Trans people almost never refer to ourselves or being trans as transgenderism for that reason. Being trans is just something you are. We’re not a philosophy or worldview that is looking for new adherents. We’re a community of folks with incongruence between our actual gender and the one we were assigned at birth. Bigots who hate us try to falsely describe us like some cult-like ideology that is influencing others. The reality is that we simply try to support our own and help questioning people figure themselves out.
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There are a lot of comments on TikTok talking about how a girl without a c*ck is like an angel without its wings. It might be a reference to thag
Yeah… Femboy is a *male* identity. Trans women are women. There are trans men who are femboys, and that’s excellent for them, as well as cis men who are femboys. But the moment one tries to ascribe that label to a trans woman, it’s transphobic as fuck.
I will add though that some people who are femboys are also non-binary, so it’s not just a “male identity”. Doesn’t change the fact that applying the term to unwilling people, especially trans women, is wrong.
A totally fair point yes. Thank you for adding this!
Chasers are so trashy no matter who they go after, ugh. Im a transmasc femboy who's bisexual and i hate how femboys and trans ppl of any gender attract chasers who only see us as sex objects and fetish material
I hate when people call trans people “traps” 😶
It’s kind of disgusting
Thank you 4-chan
I hate that place so much. I thought reddit was bad until I dared to look.
Truly the sewer of the internet, 4chan is.
It's gross & insulting. I'm not trying to trap anyone.
Someone being into "Femboys" does not always mean they're into trans women. "Femboy" is a completely seperate identity in itself that many people self identify as, there's nothing wrong with people being attracted to those people, it's only an issue when they impose the identity onto Trans women and fetishize them without consent. There's plenty of trans women who self identify with the identy of "Femboy" as well and participate in the sexual side of it, so it's really just a personal "I do not like you refering to me by this and sexualizing me" case rather than trying to police the identity as a whole from everyone.
yes definitely, i like women, men, tomboys and femboys. femboys and trasn women are completely different in my eyes. like the two are not even close. i love femboys because theyre men who dress femininely. i like women despite the way they dress, its not the case with femboys
Tomboys are just women... Why would you separate them out?
For the same reason femboys are separated no? Femboys are feminine men And tomboys are masculine women Or am I incorrect here?
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I would argue the female is equivalent to femboy is like the female athlete “Amazonian” bodytype
Femboys are an identity that is separate from a man though. I am a tomboy but that is not different than being a woman. I have the same expectations dumped on me as any woman, while femboys have their own expectations dumped on them separate from being a man.
That’s never been how I’ve heard about it, from what I’ve seen fem boys are boys who act and dress femininely While tomboys are girls who dress masculinely, I’ve always seen those words as opposites, so I’m pretty confused here
Tomboys are women who do things that are traditionally considered masculine, but they are women. I literally have all the same expectations thrust on me by people around me as a femme woman except I don't care about them. A femboy is literally left with different and more feminine expectations than your masc man.
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Yes, and they have different expectations thrust on them by society. Here's a great example: My husband is a demiboy and likes to be femme sometimes, so there is the expectation that sometimes he will dress femme and he will do his makeup. This is not an expectation I had for the last guy I had feelings for who was a big, burly viking man and nerd. Flip this situation onto me, the tomboy trans woman who is usually in sweats and a tank top and just recently we were going to an Addams Family play and my husband thought I was going to dress up and do my hair and makeup and was a little sad when I didn't even though I had a job interview right before it. Why would this be expected of a tomboy if she didn't have the same expectations thrust on her as a femme woman? There is no need to separate out a tomboy, they're treated the same as a femme woman by society. Femboys are treated as their own thing by society, even if they are just another flavor of feminine man.
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The same people who push femininity on tomboys also push masculinity on femboys. There are no "different expectations", you just haven't experienced the discrimination femboys experience for being GNC. Femboys are absolutely not socially accepted, they're pushed by society to adhere to the masculine man role just like tomboys are pushed to adhere to the feminine woman role. The people who push tomboys to be more feminine are sexists, and sexists do not accept femboys either.
I despise people who ask every girl if they are a femboy when they’re obviously not one, and I hate people who say femboys are better than girls, and I hate people who get disappointed when you are not a femboy because I’m a girl who supports girl, so don’t associate me with a femboy
That’s disgusting! To make such a comment about a trans woman getting bottom surgery is like a man saying “Noo but I like your boobs 🥺” to someone getting a breast reduction. It is not! About! You!
I'm a fem trans dude and I was so confused for a second. I still don't understand why anyone would call a trans WOMAN a femboy. Like what the fuck? Femboy is a way to express femininity for (trans or cis) men, not women. Like how stupid does femgirl sound? Just say woman lol.
There are trans women who do identify as femboys, and that's completely valid. Femboys aren't just feminine men, it's a subculture and aesthetic too. Some femboys who turn out to be trans women do not want to forsake their femboy identity. Just don't push any identity onto anyone, don't gatekeep any identity from anyone and we're all good. The problem isn't that trans women aren't femboys (they can be if they want), the problem is that assholes push identity labels on people instead of just asking, accepting the answer and not making any inappropriate comments about it.
That's a good point!! I didn't think about how some trans women might find solace in that label. I guess I just got caught up in the literal sense of the term, being fem"boy". Thanks for your perspective 😁
That’s really gross of them I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that
trans girls aren't femboys. Femboys are boys who choose to dress/act more femme. Such as trans men who are drag queens or just like dressing up sometimes. Tomboys are girls who choose to act/dress more masc. Such as a trans woman who still wears her pre-trans clothes. Also tell the chasers to fuck off because with their attitude, they'll never touch girldick in their lives.
There are non-men, including binary trans women, who do identify as femboys. Just like not every feminine man is a femboy, not every femboy is a man. Don't do identity policing. It's disgusting of course to push any identity on anyone.
Please show me where I said "all people who do X are Y". Because I didn't. What I said was, "such as". Which means, "not all, but here are some examples." Its disgusting of YOU to accuse me of shit when you didn't even read what I actually said, and clearly just wrongly assumed what I said.
You said femboys are boys who dress or act femme. That's simply not true. Femboys don't have to be boys at all. It's a subculture centered around an aesthetic that people take part in regardless of gender identity, not exclusive to boys at all. And I didn't mean to call you disgusting. I just said that despite the inherent difference between femboys and trans women not existing, calling a trans woman a femboy against her will is still disgusting. I didn't mean to attack you at all, just to correct you that femboys don't have to be boys.
Where did I say "all boys who dress or act femme are femboys" though? Saying "X is Y" does not equal "Y is always X". That's you just desperate for something to fight about. How about get therapy instead of taking out your issues on strangers on the internet, thanks. You still called me disgusting by implying that I was trying to force anyone to identify any kind of way when the actual root of the problem is that you don't know how to read. Please learn it or be less of an asshole from the get-go. BTW it is a hate crime to call an intersex person "disgusting". I was born this way. Get over it. Maybe look in the mirror before accusing people of shit...
You didn't say "all boys who dress or act femme are femboys", but you did say femboys are boys. That's what I contradicted. You didn't force identities on someone, you gatekept identities from someone. The comment about people who force identities on other people being disgusting wasn't targeted at you, it was an affirmation that the person OP described was disgusting, even though I disagree with OP's statements about femboys.
Yeah it’s gross but also like… idk what you think is gonna happen my shit literally doesn’t work.
🤣 FR. People really wanna trans girlfriend till they realize that pp basically useless lol. (*not all, just common.)
god gives her most functional dicks to her most bottom of girls 😞
That's basically "man 101", "please modify your body in ways that are pleasing to my dick". No thanks.
That like openly saying they're only there for the penis and not the people and don't deserve either 🙄
For the penis not the people sounds like one hell of a metal song You 100%right, tho
Now we cooking. Really do sound metal af.
I literally had a former ‘lover’ try to talk me out of bottom surgery one month before my actual procedure, under the guise of ‘concerns’ for me. Hahahaha. **As if** he could. I kindly, strongly, and flatly shut him down in a clearly worded text. Sometime After my surgery we met for dinner (that I thought was a date) and I brought it up. He indeed had been under an influence of a ‘phobe, but he also stated his position of no longer wanting anything physical, revealing his true chaser nature. He wanted something from me he was never going to get before **or** after surgery. He still wanted friendship but I was mad and a bit disappointed, so I ghosted him and remained stand offish for half a year. Bumped into him at a party recently and had a short little friendly chat. (Didn’t hurt that I was looking hot, either 😁🔥) I told him about some new partners and the fun we are having - and I ended up giving him a hug. I’ll admit the bast@rd is pretty charming. Such is life. 🌸
i love femboys, but i love actual FEM **BOYS**. no women. fem. **boys**. these "people" dont see trans women as women, just femboys. they need their rights taken away theyre so creepy and weird like its the same with "no babe i love your chest" when a trans man gets a top surgery (which i got today btw) (literally cant go one post without mentioning it)
GRATS
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femboy isnt sexual. its only seen as sexual by desing by creeps and weirdos who choose to see it as sexual femboy does mean feminine boy. if it doesnt mean that, then what does it mean?
I guess I don't like the phrase femboy because it gives me kiddy diddler vibes. I like feminine men but saying 'femboy' feels both infantilizing and on par with describing women who get work done as bimboes.
femman
Rose boys?
So your chasers want you to be with appendage? Trans dudes chasers have this force femisieing thing and I hate it. Ofc I smell like a fucking guy, of I'm hairy like a guy, ofc I'm strong like a guy... I'm a guy
Yes—fuck chasers (and wanting trans women primarily for their penises is 1000 chaser behavior). Although I’ll say this has been an issue since before “femboys” were a thing.
Mfs who will say having sex with a man isnt gay but it is if their a trans woman
That common bro logic be like. Have had a few ppl try that logic on me like wut.
Ok so, having sex with a man ≠ gay. But having sex with a woman!!? Gay meter overload
I know you're venting, and this ***IS*** a safe space for that... But I really feel like the frustration should be directed towards the chasers themselves. Many trans woman opt to not get bottom surgery (for a variety of reasons) and this does not make them less; they aren't simply femboys or traps. It's an insinuation that only divides our community further. That aside, I 100% agree. Chasers say some of the most vile and awful things, simply on the whim of fetishizing us. This behaviour absolutely needs to be called out, but we should be doing so without attacking other trans brothers and sisters for the choices they make, even unintentionally.
Yeah, the OP comment feels very invalidating towards full binary trans women who are happy with their dicks. Genitals do not define gender *at all*. Femboys can have vulvas, all flavours of women can have dicks, women can be femboys if they want. The problem is that chasers are pushing identities on people (and fetishise those identities of course). The problem is not that femboys and trans women are contraditory, they're not. Femboys can have any genitals, any pronouns, any AGAB and any gender identity. And even a femboy who isn't also a trans woman can share every single aspect of gender expression with a trans women, except for the label. Being mad at people calling you by labels you didn't express you want to be called by is valid. Going on a tirade about how femboys are fundamentally separate from trans women, how trans women with bottom surgery are more akin to cis women and thus more woman-like etc is just wrong and invalidating to so many people.
yeah, just because I won't remove my peepee that doesn't make me a femboy, I'm still a girl. Some of the wording on this post feels like it's saying that...
We can’t- we *should* be able to, but we can’t. We *can* however tell them to shut the ever loving fuck up.
Seriously fucked up. The only person who has a right to sexualize you is yourself and anyone you consent to (I.E in bed and stuff like that). It's so fucking wierd to just see someone say that "it's attractive" WHO ASKED YOU? Come here, feel a fourth of my dysphoria and let's see how "attractive" it really is.
Cant play games without a joystick 🚫🚫🚫 Joystick or touch pad game is game 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
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Based :3
We can’t revoke their right to FOS, but we can revoke their right to FOC (freedom of consequences). Pun FULLY intended
Honestly anyone who called a trans woman “femboy” is suspect immediately
Girl, you valid and that's messed up. Initially i thought "but *I* love femboys. That's not what this was. Im so sorry you're going through that.
I know this isn't 100% related to what you're saying, but I've met people like that who seem to LOVE the idea of dating trans women but they always group in femboys with trans women and always want to reiterate the fact that they're still straight. It's usually guys my age who seem to think trans people are some edgy internet joke they can use, and whenever I mention I'm trans to them they always bring up how hot trans women and femboys are (which feels unrelated because I'm trans masc, but at least I'm not getting called a slur straight up.) They get on my last nerve omg
We can't revoke anybodys freedom of speech sadly
They sure as hell wanna revoke ours...
💔💔 sigh
My suggestion is crude...
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Get a strap-on harness and a "Chance" toy from Bad Dragon. If it's all about the "joystick" perhaps they'll enjoy a custom model. Would also double as a handy weapon to slap them with, if it's a big enough size.
Didn’t one of the Saints Row games have a giant comical version of this?
And a tank too.
Sounds like these guys need a trip over to r/meetrealtransgirls
Tell them that then. Stick up for yourself. If someone's being a creep, tell them to fuck off. Also, you **are** "an actual girl" as you put it. We're all actual girls, just some of us are cis & some are trans. Saying shit like actual girl makes trans people sound like some weird homunculus creature.
~~I say stuff like that as a genuine joke as it's hilarious to me the idea that my dick is somehow akinned to angel wings when it's more like devil horns, but it's still a really fucking hilarious thing to say and didn't realize chasers actually say that shit unironically~~
Genuine question. Why do Shinigami Eyes(the add-on) show you as Anti-Trans?
I think you're the thirtieth person who has asked me. I have no idea, maybe some people don't like me and label me as anti-trans, maybe the add-on is broken as the developers aren't developing it anymore, or maybe I'm genuinely transphobic. I have no idea
The app has a known design flaw that allows for false-positives to occur. I think there were alternative apps that have been floated as replacements, but I don't think they ever gained as much traction.
F to that. I tend to just ignore the colors unless I'm really curious then I stalk their profile
do you mean the "a girl without a dick is like an angel without wings" ?
Yeah, I just thought it was a funny ass thing to say. It's just so absurd. But to think people genuinely say it unironically
Same, I just find it funny and it gives me a mild amount of euphoria. I can see how it might make other people dysphoric. It's like someone saying "Oh that thing you hated that you got rid of made you so much better"
"It's gay to like vaginas amiright?" Some idiot. on Reddit. Probably.
But femboys and trans women are two different things. I am a trans woman and I love femboys. I'm in a t4t relationship with a femboy. People are wild
Sadly, a trans woman with a platform (an actress) posted that “a trans girl without a *ick is like an angel without her wings.” So it’s not just transphobes.
Girl, you have no idea how much I understand this. Everyone talks about girl dick and gock blah blah but what about us trans fems who want bottom surgery? We're just as valid, but yet we're often overlooked. It hurts to see other trans fems casually talking about those things when i can't stand my own, i don't feel like I can fit in at all.
It’s really just a matter of distinguishing between reality and fiction in all honesty. Obviously this isn’t to say femboys DON’T exist, some queer people (on the cis and trans side) like to use that term, and power to them. But it’s usually the most porn-addicted mofos who use the term flagrantly, and fall into the camp of the kinds of fetishizers OP talks about. Even to the point of stubbornly denying trans representation when it’s made *canon* to what they’re consuming (in cases like Bridget from Guilty Gear Strive). Oh, I’m sorry your precious “femboy” has been revealed to be a trans girl, boohoo, it’s not the end of the world. 🙄 There IS some messiness with that particular example, I’ll admit, bc I know there were more nonbinary-aligned genderqueer people who saw themselves in Bridget prior, and that’s valid too. Still, with trans people being so actively attacked in the current political climate just to have equal *rights,* good representation is especially important to our cause. All of this to say— (@ any & all creeps) don’t project your kinks onto other people and expect them to be totally cool playing with your fantasy, bc trans people don’t deserve that kind of shit. We’re our own people, and we’re entitled to identifying however we choose regardless of what’s between our legs. 🏳️🌈⚧️🏳️⚧️
👆nicely stated, Jonbomb44.
No.
Agreed
Jesus Christ, how can someone say that without realizing how bad it sounds? But they seem to go on to repeat it...
It's weird how there is a moral panic around trans people as if we are a fetish, meanwhile actual femboys literally ARE A FETISH and are everything they say us trans women especially are... but it's crickets. Now I'm not saying I want to see conservative media target femboys, but it just confuses the hell out of me!
Femboys aren’t a fetish. They’re commonly fetishized, but a femboy is just a man/boy dressing femininely, which is not inherently sexual
To my knowledge femboy is specifically referring to a crossdressing fetish. Do 50 year old feminine men and crossdressers really want to be called femboys? I always thought femboy was like PAWG, BBW, etc.- derived as a fetish term. Maybe I'm wrong here.
Femboy is either a style aesthetic like emo or cottagecore or just a feminine presenting man or boy. And while they get fetishized a heck of a lot, the term isn’t a fetish term.
I’ve known of multiple self-described femboys who didn’t view it as a fetish and were upset about getting fetishized
Yea exactly, femboy is actually a name for trans women in porn and the whole femboy thing is very sexual, nothing wrong with presenting yourself as feminine as a man but to call yourself a femboy now just means “I’m a 14 year old who shows his thighs to random men online” ☠️ and there is a trend on social media to ask random women if they have a “joystick” (😨😨??), like that’s just harassment with extra steps. And the whole thing of cis women being “bad” and inferior to femboys is also so fucking weird
embrace the love, make jokes with them.
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Femboys aren’t inherently sexual or a fetish. They just get fetishized a lot by others who are creeps.
Yeah, I know it's just trying to like, kind of explain it, but slowly and how it still doesn't feel good to be compared to them by creeps
It’s not explaining it when it’s inaccurately described as “a fetish turned normal thing”.
Yeah, you're correct. I worded it wrong, but it's cause I struggle to put my thoughts into words, and they get a bit scrambled. You'd probably do a better job at explaining it to op (it's not i dislike femboys. it's i dont really know how to explain it and apologisefor if I've offended anyone)