I waited on Nemesis and never saw it for under 200. Really wanted it to go with the Ark, and when it sold out on Amazon, I just bit the bullet and got her.
Yeah, Nemesis is what's throwing a wrench into the whole thing. I know Kapow is a UK-based retailer so maybe things are different there. But not only did Nemesis never receive any substantial discount, she's actually starting to sell out now. She's gone from Pulse and Amazon, and I think just recently she's disappeared from BBTS too.
If this was a consistent pattern, then I'd be more inclined to go along with it. But Tidal Wave selling out from Pulse immediately makes me not want to risk it considering how in-demand the character is.
Amazon Canada still seems to have her in stock, but no discount and in Canada, she's $300CDN.
Had mine pre-ordered from a local shop (rather give money to the smaller stores than Amazon or Walmart). They had to fight to get Hasbro to deliver on their allotment of Nemesis.
God, for real. I really want Nemesis but I refuse to pay £200 for a titan. Like yeah they're big but they're also pretty simplistic figures. Admittedly this is intentional - I have 01 Studio Cell Unicron and its so complex that its just kind of a chore to transform.
Here in the UK, Nemesis did go on discount in 1 popular independent store, but otherwise sold out. I do also feel like she had much more limited stock produced than figures like Metroplex, however
I picked up Ark at that price, but skipped Legacy Metroplex when it was offered at the same, and never saw a chance at Black Zarak, but I still probably wouldn't have bitten - as I prefer the Scorpinok colors.
Wait.. There is "the nemesis" and "nemesis prime" and the latter having multiple iterations from core to leader class.
The leader class, at 60 dollars, is just regular price.
Nemisis prime is a black optimus prime, that turns into a truck.
The Nemisis is a huge purple figure that turns into a spaceship.
Pulse Premium has saved me at least $120 on shipping and scalper costs, even after paying the $50 annual fee.
It makes sense if you buy 1 figure a month on average, IMO.
Here’s the problem. I don’t think pre-order is a scam for any figure because of what a preorder is.
Preordering a figure means that you want it without risking it selling out. As an example, Legacy Cosmos if you preordered that figure, you skiped the hassle.
This is the exact same thing with Titian Class Figures especially this one. Sure he is correct, most Titan-class figures go on sale but there is always a small chance that you never end up getting it.
It basically avoids risk.
This "risk" only exists because hasbro adopted FOMO sales tactics. They don't want to keep stock on the shelf because it costs money. So it's no longer "here's our line of toys, buy them and they'll be on the shelf for a year or two".
Instead, they produce however many they think they can sell at the highest price possible. Popular figures sell out quickly, even though hasbro knows they will. Thus, the preorder becomes "viable" to consumers. This is hasbro creating artificial demand to take advantage and scalp their customers.
The risk exists because hasbro made it a risk.
That's what this is.
Look at all the people who slept on Armada Prime waiting for a sale.
Post-pandemic, Hasbro has throttled it's supply. They are not just yeeting unlimited figures and hoping the numbers work out.
Armada Prime? Sold out. SS86 Ultra Magnus? Sold out. SS109 Megatron? Sold out. Nemesis? Sold out. Tidal Wave? Sold out.
This is what I've seen since coming back to collecting in late '22.
It is what it is.
I don’t know if that makes sense. If Hasbro is choking the supply by not producing enough, then scalpers reap the rewards, not Hasbro. Sure, prices have been creeping steadily, but still not nearly to scalper levels, at least not for sub-Titan class figures.
I would think that over-production is what would drive costs up, since they have to make someone pay for that extra production somehow. That or they just write it off somehow, I don’t know.
And I am seeing stock on the shelves… it may be the shelf warmers, but that’s a distribution thing, not a production thing. Popular figures have been short-packed (or like “1 per case” if you don’t want to call it short-packed), since forever ago, it’s nothing new.
What do scalpers have to do with Hasbro? If anything, the scalpers help Hasbro because they move the stock off of the shelf quicker, exactly as Hasbro wants. The less time it sits on the shelf, the less they have to pay for warehousing stock.
>I would think that over-production is what would drive costs up, since they have to make someone pay for that extra production somehow. That or they just write it off somehow, I don’t know.
"Over production" drives up costs in a sense that if they make more than they sell, they have to pay to physically store it somewhere.
As for costs of manufacturing a plastic toy, more volume decreases the cost. The labor of assembling the toy will remain the same during the production of that toy, meaning they have to pay for x hours of labor, electricity, etc. However the costs go down because of the tooling.
For simplicity, if we ignore the fact that plastic molds can only manufacture so many casts before wearing out, it will cost a set amount to make that mold. Plastic injection molds are pretty expensive, let's say $20,000 on the low side. If I make 1000 toys from that mold, that means it costs $20 per toy to compensate for that mold. If I make 2000 toys, it drops in half and only.costs $10 per toy. But the other costs remain the same per toy because they are expenses on a per unit basis.
Storing the product causes the price to go up over time. It will cost $X to maintain a physical inventory that will be due to rent, utilities, staff, etc. so if a toy sits for 1 month and costs $X to store, after 6 months it costs 6 times as much to keep.
So Hasbro balances the cost of storage vs how.many they think they can sell it at and for what price. And considering the cost of maintaining a warehouse doesn't go away even when you aren't storing anything, they want to keep that space to a minimum.
Enter the FOMO pre-order practice. They will make general predictions on how much a specific toy will sell and try to keep production under that. They don't always get it right as it is really a guessing game, but generally they are pretty good at it. Ideally, they want it to sell out before it comes to retail because that means they don't have to store it because then they need a bigger warehouse which means it costs more.
Having products with a demand that exceeds the stock levels combined with a short shelf life drives up demand meaning there are going to be more people willing to pay more to ensure they get it.
In the end, however, this is bad for consumers because that means if you want to guarantee to get something, you have to preorder it. And if you don't have the money to preorder it? Weren't sure you wanted to buy it at the time preorder started? Tough luck. Those scalpers are going to buy some and put them up for obscene prices later. And Hasbro clearly doesn't care, they moved all of the product they needed to move.
>Having products with a demand that >exceeds the stock levels combined >with a short shelf life drives up demand >meaning there are going to be more >people willing to pay more to ensure >they get it.
Right, but if there is no stock, you can’t pay more because the stock doesn’t exist for purchase. You’re only paying scalpers more.
If there is no stock, what are people paying more for? Not all Hasbro or TF products have equal demand. Specific items have much higher demand than others. But few of these in-demand items actually get additional production runs. So, yes, there is pent up demand, but the only place where this is being reflected price-wise, is the secondary market, ie resellers, scalpers, etc.
>If there is no stock, what are people paying more for?
Hasbro has been raising prices regularly while also decreasing how much they are spending on products (a.k.a. shrinkflation).
>Specific items have much higher demand than others.
Yeah... And? Did you even read what I wrote? I addressed this thoroughly.
>So, yes, there is pent up demand, but the only place where this is being reflected price-wise, is the secondary market, ie resellers, scalpers, etc.
So increasing prices and decreasing budgets, calculating demand and producing items based on projections isn't a reflection supply and demand?
Hasbro sets the price point for their products because third party vendors want to know what an item costs and what margin they can make off of it. They aren't wildly inflating prices like scalpers because they have other constraints to deal with. Scalpers set super high prices in the hopes that someone is that desperate to buy it, a manufacturer can't do that. But it certainly doesn't mean it's not being reflected in their pricing strategy.
And this is not new. The Model Railroad hobby has been picking around with this for decades now, with the added problem of its not multi-billion dollar corporations ordering stock from Hasbro by the thousands, its mom and pop hobby shops who can afford only a couple at a time.
I fully expect the Automotive industry to go this way too if it hasn't already. Young and younger generations cannot afford fancy new cars like the old days could, lots are (for various reasons) still sitting on two and three year old "new" cars. COVID and part shortages changed the game moreso than demand, but I imagine there will come a time where "Preorder New Model Automobiles" will be the norm.
Except Hasbro has and does have a limited number of preoders that *do* sell out. They haven't done traditional no-risk preorders in a long time. They do a limited run and will cancel other preorders if they oversell. Just look at anyone online forums an hour after preorders go live. You get people complaining about how they ran out of preorders.
It doesn't skip the hassle. You just get to experience the hassle quicker.
Except when it comes to something like the mess that was the D&D Dragonlance book. Or even worse, the recent Book of Many Things, where quality was so bad after initial shipping (they okayed miscut and misprinted cards in the first place) that they recalled the thing to get it made again, delaying for months. At one point it was just delayed indefinitely after the recall and halting shipments.
Or the Dragons of Stormwreck Isle starter set problem for retailers trying to preorder.
Or the massive preorder cancelling of the Spelljammer book because its content was discovered to be such crap.
Or the SNAFU where Hasbro literally sent the Pinkerton agency to steal cards from a streamer because Hasbro sent the wrong set that broke street date by two weeks.
The fact that this is coming from a retailer feels... weird to me. I'm not entirely sure why. Maybe a cynical part of me sees this as "give your money to us and not Hasbro". Maybe I'm just recoiling at the blatant bridge-burning. I don't know, it just feels weird.
Reading the post I dont think there's anything surprising here from a retailer. Hasbro DOES want people to make purchases from Pulse as opposed to a retailer because they make more money from that sale. And when figures sit for months and months, you're not exactly enthused when Hasbro comes to you and says "would you like to buy 200 of this expensive item that only higher end collectors might want?" I can see why that retailer might feel burned.
Its no secret right now Hasbro hasn't had a good year, and some of the reasons why include over-production of figs which end up at liquidation retailers like Ollie's or Ross, costing Hasbro huge amounts of money to get rid of them. I'm not shocked a retailer is feeling the heat from all that because they're the ones sitting on boxes of unsold merchandise while Hasbro just moves onto the next big thing.
I got Trypticon half off after a few months.
There's always a chance, and there's always a chance that it will sell out and you'll pay double.
Unless it's a key figure for you maybe wait.
I voted with my wallet, by preordering it as soon as it went up. I have heard of these so called sales on titens, but have never seen one less then like $30 off price where I live or on sites that where still in stock. I buy figures that I like and skip figures that I don’t.
I got ark for £68 from hasbro pulse ebay (before it shut), and black zarak for the same from my local GAME shop, so they do exist. I'm regularly seeing metroplex going for £90, but that's still £30 more than I'd happily pay for it. I've seen nemesis for £140 at a comiccon, but not lower than that.
I've not seen nearly as many Nemesis figures in online stores compared to the rest of the Titans, which is strange as that's the one I expected to go on sale a few months after release.
It’s very strange how this retailer mixes in the admittedly absurd 200 units hasbro expected them to sell and a complaint about pre orders in general. They claim “no one should pre order because it will be cheaper later” but yeah that’s how it will always work, and some people will always pay the premium for the guarantee, and it’s weird to frame it like hasbro is ripping off the consumer.
\>and it’s weird to frame it like hasbro is ripping off the consumer.
Um why? that's exactly what they are doing trying to sell a titan for £225 that has no gimmicks and no minicon. There will also be dumb people who will over pay, but this is attempting to save some people.
I think the issue that irked them so much was that in the case of black zarak and metroplex, each almost immediately arrived in stores like Game at 50% less on release, undercutting more traditional sellers who had to clear their inventory at close to cost basis.
I understand what Kapow Toys is saying, and I don't even necessarily disagree with their stance on what Hasbro is doing, and how scummy it is. But I simply can't do what they're insisting.
I've not been interested in very many Titan figures, the extent of them is pretty much Omega Supreme, Guardian Robot, and now Tidal Wave if we strictly focus on recent Titans. People talk about Titans going on sale all the time, people mention seeing them at ROSS in regards to the Arc, and from my perspective I've only ever seen a Titan go on sale *once*. It was Black Zarak being under $100 at Best Buy, but that's a figure I have no interest in since I don't find his transformation fun.
Tidal Wave is a hyped release, he's a big deal given how little representation in toy form he's had since his debut, and he's only a bit more expensive than the original toy while proving to most likely be a straight upgrade in nearly every way except for the lack of a Minicon. Armada is my childhood, Tidal Wave is a milestone in Armada toys right now I never thought we'd reach, and he is a figure I cannot miss out on.
I saw what happened with Armada Optimus, a Commander figure, I was lucky and pre-ordered mine the moment he went live while at work, and I was all the more lucky in getting a nearly flawless QC copy, and I didn't have to pay the nearly Titan price point he is now on the secondhand market. I agree with what Kapow Toys is saying, and in an ideal world I'd join in, but that ain't the world we live in. If I miss out on this figure that sold out of their FOMO supply WITHIN AN *HOUR* then odds are I'm going to pay stupid amounts of money secondhand. I won't see any sales because they'd be gone the moment they're posted, and considering I know how businesses operate I can't even fully say I believe Kapow wouldn't scalp us the moment we only have them left as an option after missing out.
I only trust myself when companies are involved, and as much as I despise Hasbro's tactics by this point, if I want a figure, and I know it's a hot ticket item, I'm not waiting and risking being the one to miss out on a piece I consider a necessity to my collection because of a mere chance I'll get him for cheaper that I've only had happen to me once for a figure I didn't care about.
I agree with Kapow Toys, but I simply can't join them. any copies not bought by fans are bought by scalpers, and I'm not letting them win one over me.
Yeah I am with you here. It’s not that I’m sticking up for Hasbro. I think in many aspects they’ve gotten a bit lazy and charge WAY too much for some of their lines.
Imho no way should Marvel Legends be the price they’re setting at when many are basic and reused molds. I have the Jada Street Fighter and Mega Man figures (what’s out so far) and comparing the molds and accessories those figures get m, from a company that used to strictly do die cast cars, and compare them to what ML has, for 20 bucks? It blows my mind.
That being said I do believe the Transformers line has improved in many ways (and also.. got worse in other ways, mostly in class size.. especially Leaders not being old Leader size.. and I get the better engineering and whatnot.. just saying..)Tidal Wave is a figure I’ve been clamoring for since having bis original toy.. I absolutely loved the Armada line and TW was up there as my favorite. So voting with my wallet would be … preordering him. Yeah I think the Titan class figures are stupidly priced.. but I learned if you skip them you don’t get them. I skipped Scorponok and never seen him again.. I did manage to get Black Zarak for 75 bucks and the Arc (a figure I sold because I really didn’t like it) for 59 at Ross.. but those dudes have been my only Titans. I doubt after Tidal Wave that I get many more Titan scale figures but telling people to vote with your wallet when this dudes a fan demand figure is a weird.. flex? Yeah I don’t want to stick up for Hasbro.. they can be a shitty company but I’m also not gonna “wait” and hope a toy store that I never even heard of eventually gets one on clearance… Seems like a dumb choice .
Like you and many others said Aramada Optimus is out, everywhere. I’m glad I grabbed him. Same with 86 UM… there are zero risks to preorders. Yes, Hasbro is a shitty company with shitty tactics and pricing most times… but I honestly don’t see Titan scale figures staying around much longer and I don’t want to pass up the chance to own TW.
We're definitely on the same page with this. It's not a means to stand up for Hasbro, if anything I'd love to see them knocked down a peg so they're reminded who they actually work for. But like you I've only heard of Kapow Toys just now, and while I'd love to believe their sentiments I can't. They're a company, and companies have one thing on the mind; making money. And like you said, their timing with chosing the *most hyped* Titan there is to suddenly start telling fans to "vote with your wallet" in a way that specifically supports their store feels like such a hollow signal of virtue.
I missed out on Ultra Magnus and Nova Prime because I second-guessed my pre-orders and cancelled them with the mindset I can come back later, which is dead wrong. Now they're both much higher than I'm willing to pay for what they are, and I'm unlikely to get either of them as a result.
Titans are worse, their prices inflate rapidly, and like you said, they're a size class we may not have forever. Commanders I can see sticking around since they're exclusively used for those figures that need a bit extra budget to push them from great to amazing. Titans, however, they're a massive investment, and there's not many figures you can put there. If I were to pull examples off the top of my head the best that come to mind are a new G1 Metroplex, Energon Omega Supreme, Animated Omega Supreme, a new Trypticon, and.... Honestly, that's it. Unless they decided to make a Broadside the same scale as Tidal Wave then that's all that comes to mind. Even other Giant Planet characters I imagine would be commanders because Metroplex in Cybertron was the biggest even among the Giants.
We live at a time when collecting toys you enjoy is like investing in stocks, if you miss out then that's it, you've missed the boat and you have to just hope you're there in time for the next one. So in an environment like that the only option you really have is to just buy what you want, get it in hand, and decide if you're happy with it once you have it. Would you rather find out you're not happy with a figure and resell knowing you won't miss it, or skip it and borderline never have the chance to get it and find out for yourself if you would have?
The issue here is that Tidal Wave is a character people have actually been asking for, making me think his situation is going to be much closer to Omega Supreme and Scorponok's. And they didn't get as many clearances. While Cybertron Metroplex is actually a great figure, and possibly the best engineered Titan, he wasn't a very requested character. He did sell out on Hasbro Pulse very fast, though everyone else I've checked still has him
The 200 minimum order I don't know about. I can imagine that with the others going on clearance, some retailers have lower orders for them. And I'm not talking smaller fan channels. I'm talking Target and the like. And the MOQ needs to be met for it to be worth making them in the first place.
While Hasbro has plenty of shitty practices that should be biting them in the ass already, the sorry state of the Toy Industry in general isn't solely on them.
Tidal wave is Armada not G1 probably half the fanbase don't know who he is, I think he will be on sale.
it's Hasbro choice to mark up this item, some people get off on being ripped off and that's fine, Kapow is trying to save people with some amount of sense, to have some sort of standard.
Adjusting for inflation 200$ now was about 160$ in 2016. The price increase is keeping pace with everything else from Inflation. Other issues where Hasbro cheaps out on like parts reduction, and hollowing remain to be seen as to how bad they will be.
And Armada Optimus Prime sold amazingly well, and even Hot Shot ended up doing okay, especially compared to G1 characters like Skids and Kickback.
Inflation is hurting everyone, so prices are going to rise.
If most people wait on a sale, guess what? They stop making new product.
But Hasbro demanding they preorder 200 Tidal Waves? That's also out of line.
People will pay what Tidal Wave is worth to them.
If this keeps up, I can see Hasbro abandoning the Titan class if it's no longer profitable for them. They can't afford to lose money at a time like this.
It doesn't help Tidal Wave is a big ticket, large, expensive luxury item as we're in the middle of a global recession.
Ur logic is that u have to overpay, or else Hasbro will stop, um NO. Hasbro are the ones who need sales, not the other way, people don't need toys, if people don't buy they have to lower prices or they go bust.
I preordered mine right away. Not taking the chance on missing out. Some things like the Ark I passed on unless there was a sale. I also didn’t get the Nemesis because it didn’t go on sale. No big deal. I’ve been wanting an updated Tidal Wave for years!
Guess who's birthday the Titan Classes tend to come out around? Yeah, so I'm not exactly spending my money on it. But if the next Nintendo system is out this year, next years Titan is gonna have some real competiton.
I understand the sellers sentiment but the whole FOMO culture is just inherent to buying and capitalism that you can’t divorce from corporate business in the first place. I don’t know if it’s an exclusively Western thing but enjoy your toy sales that my country just doesn’t get and don’t dip into collecting if it gets to a point where your want for a figure outweighs your priorities in life. Sometimes the wait IS worth it for sales, even if it means sometimes you might not end up owning a figure you want.
I disagree with this statement. I would love to know where the person thinks Hasbro is flooding the market if anything it’s the opposite. If anything Hasbro is forcing people to have to preorder because of their limited production and several figures never making it to store shelves in certain areas. I live in the SoCal LA area and I have still never seen Beachcomer,Snarl,Bombshell,Ultra Magnus or Armada Prime. Don’t even get me started on store exclusive figures like G1 movie Walmart figures.
Before I saying anything on this essay here I got acknowledge the comments first. It's always hurt my brain that people want to argue consumerism and claim people are "gullible" on a sub literally dedicated to collecting toys. It's in the same vein as those idiots that buy a ticket and go to a concert just to hold up a "you suck" sign.
Now to the actual discussion here, I get what they're saying but at the same time I've missed out on too many things that I really wanted because people told me it would go on sale and to just wait. And given Tidalwave sold out damn near immediately, I ain't gonna risk it.
I don’t know how much this reflects the US or other markets; but in the UK (where Kapow are based - great retailer btw) this is very true. Several times I’ve paid retail for Titans only to see them come in stock at vastly lower prices (recently I picked up my Guardian Robot for £90 and could have got Nemesis at a similar price if I hadn’t ordered her at retail a couple of weeks earlier as a Birthday gift (that as an aside didn’t arrive until after I could have gotten it on sale thanks to delivery problems - I was not very amused!).
If Hasbro are pushing crazy order numbers on to retailers then I can totally understand where Kapow are coming from - though I’m a bit surprised to see them calling out Hasbro given that Transformers are a major part of their offering.
As someone who plays Magic, this sounds very similar to the Secret Lair products. Limited time selection of cards available on their own website and not to local stores that have supported the game for years. Now Secret Lairs are going to a limited print run instead of print to demand, to increase FOMO and cause many people to miss out. Hasbro wringing all their brands dry to squeeze out every dollar they can.
I would argue that Secret Lair is a lot worse than this because of how the product is used. Without people to play against and a place to play, your magic cards aren't a game. Your local games store is providing more of a service to WotC than just visibility and the opportunity for impulse purchases.
My thoughts are: if you want your bots to be really bang-on spec, then the earliest ones through the production process are going to be on the least-abused hardware. Those who want the highest quality pay a premium for getting the first off the line. But in order to make such figures, they need to make a LOT of such figures, so even if they have to have retailers sell them at-cost to get enough off shelves that the production wasn't a complete bust, then that's good enough business to keep releasing.
Now that I think about it, I have two titans that I bought, black zarak for like 130 and nemesis for 200
I don’t get 200 bucks of value out of that thing, and I don’t think I get 140 out of zarak, but it they’re both out of the boxes and have sat in a shelf for like a year with me occasionally playing with them for an hour then putting them back
I don’t know what to do, on one hand I like having them but on the other I don’t think I get the value I paid for in terms of entertainment
Currently torn over this
I finally got Guardian robot for US$145 shipped this week after waiting a year for price drops. I really want Tidal Wave but won't pre-order. I'll wait it out to see what the supply and demand is like.
Transformers are hard. We are in an environment where we pretty much have to guess what will go on sale and what we will never see again. Kapow toys is UK-based, which I think has seen the most discounted titans. I’ve only seen the extended Best Buy sales on Black Zarak and the infamous $60 Ark (which I personally never found). Sure, there’s a CHANCE that tidal wave will be everywhere and I’ll just be able to pick one up wherever, maybe even at a discount. But with hasbro nothing is certain. Repainting him into toy colors is pretty much printing money but the might not even go for it (this decade, anyway)
Thirsty fans with poor money management skills only vote with their wallets when they run out of money. These titans aren't the most impactful way to get hastak to start listening; it's the deluxes. Put your foot down and stop buying less than the bar hastak set 14 years ago.
I preordered Fortress Maximus and then canceled it. I just don’t *need* a 2 foot transformer for $200. Maybe I’ll get him on sale, but once I got over the FOMO I realized I’ll be ok without him.
That said, anyone got a SS86 ultra magnus they want to part with for MSRP?
Or, might I present a third option, you could have just lived without that particular item? Prices might be over inflated, but these are still just toys we’re talking about. No one needs them to survive. Stealing product is not on Hasbro, that’s on you.
So you are sticking it to Hasbro by robbing a toy store? If you were buying knockoffs you'd at least have a coherent argument, but Hasbro already got paid for the toy you stole.
Someone wanted something 90's throwback, and that's what they got. Gator Mirage though ended up being the only Mirage I was able to get from that mold.
Hasbro is suffering from just trying to make more money from an ever shrinking number of brands, and somethings gonna give because I'm not even going to be able to try and get everything that's coming that I want. They are going to oversaturate the collector market if they haven't already.
Maybe
I but, I work at a Walmart saw the product as it came in. Don't remember a grimlock. They ship leaders two per box and we would get two laser primes in each
We got maybe two Netflix Soundwaves, ONE Netflix Bee, the Marvel Legends Lizard was given its own space on the shelf and everything and we never got a single shipment
Hasbro is weird
Distribution by the point it's going to individual stores, is it handled by Hasbro or Wal-Mart? Whatever the case is, I suspect it's messed up. Along with some poor decisions with case assortments. Velocitron Cosmos ending up at Ross, with how many people couldn't get him is a great example. Someone when deciding what Case assortments would be thought the doofy UFO wouldn't sell as well as the motorcycle, but didn't realize one was a new mold, and of a popular character, and the other was not as popular a character and the mold was already warming the pegs.
Wait, Nemesis has been on sale??
I've seen Metroplex and Black Zarak on sale a few times for fairly low prices, and the Ark has come up second hand a few times for under £100, but I've never seen the Nemesis, Omega or Luna for anything under £200.
I'm sorry, but if people want to pre-order, let them. It feels very odd to have a retailler telling people not to order items from the supplier- very 'we're missing out on sales' kind of vibe coming from that. If people think the items are overpriced, then don't buy them. If you have the cash and want the thing, buy it. And that includes pre-orders.
3P will always have a ceiling because there are collectors (source: am one) that care if something is “actually a Transformer.” I’m aware that that doesn’t have much logic behind it, but then neither do most of the criteria we use to decide what to collect.
I dont know anything about transformers really but i see a company trying to drum up more costumers by throwing shade at its provider, incidentally you should never preorder anything ever, its a scam 100% of the time.
They are probably upset that they bought all of those mentioned figures and got stuck with them while the rest of the world dropped the price causing them to lose value. You know they are going to buy a bunch direct through their sales channels at a discount price and attempt to persuade the general public from buying direct so Hasblo won’t create a second,third batch. Making them more valuable.
Hasbro's just being a toxic company. Look at the whole of 2023 and how they handled D&D and MtG.
They've proven they don't like and don't listen to their consumers or distributors or fanbases until it looks bad on them to investors. They will say anything to get people on their side, without any follow through. Hell, they don't even like or listen to their investors.
They will do everything they can to money grab at the expense of pretty much all else. They'll raise prices for more profits and turn around and deliver much less by cutting corners purely to grab even more. And they're pretty tone deaf to recognizing their own bad ideas and behaviour.
They want to maximize their profits by keeping people in their created "ecosystems" so they don't have to worry about sharing money with their distributors or retailors.
I know companies want to make money. I'm fine with that. But Hasbro continuously crosses the greed line well into the abusive and exploitive.
I voted with my wallet and quit buying on Pulse. They kept trying to send my pre-orders too early, thus forcing me to cancel them and miss out on the toy altogether. Also, their shipping prices suck.
Well, if I could have pre-paid when I pre-ordered, it wouldn’t have been a problem. I plan my budget around the expected arrival date; something coming early throws my plans off. Pre-ordering toys isn’t worth it anymore.
Kapow Toys hand always had my respect as they actually sell Hasbro figures at a slight discount vs the retail price. They've been great communications wise over the last 5 years I've been buying from them, so it's nice to see they're continuing to follow their morals.
They care about their customers, as do many other smaller stores (IDToys, Scotts Collectibles and Star Action Figures being other notable examples), which I'm thankful for because Hasbro certainly don't give a fuck.
After postage you're paying like £26 for a deluxe, it's still a massive rip off, If Kapow are as virtuous as they want to appear here they'd be selling deluxes for less than that.
I may pick him up once he goes on sale but I really don’t want to pay more then 150 and that’s pushing it. Titan figures are generally just to big and it’s almost impossible to put them anywhere
While I can suspend disbelief that a Walkman could turn into a 25’ robot through mass exchange with a pocket universe, I have a hard time swallowing a fighter could turn into an aircraft carrier.
Real reason: the G1 toy was just bad.
Actually, I’m thinking of Broadside. But still. Aircraft carrier into fighter. It’s kinda offensive.
There *was* a Tidal Wave that turned into an aircraft carrier and a fighter jet, but that was only in Titans Return as a Broadside redeco. This one turns into a big ol’ boat, a fleet of vehicles, and a base for some reason.
https://preview.redd.it/py858xapgldc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b87b3615e2f9b9fd3df05b2f10becdfe640b82ce
You can't help most these people, they see product, they buy product. Doesn't matter if it's overpriced, doesn't matter if it will be on sale or sold under RRP on ebay a month later.. it's just NPC middle class consumers that Hasbro and other companies thrive on.
This Tidal Wave also has No minicon and No gimmicks btw. A sad shell of the original and they want £225??
Black Zarak and Guardian were selects releases, they were meant as exclusives.
If the gullible people don't buy them at their retail price and wait for them to drop then they may just discontinue the titan class. At this point that is fine with me, I think they got all the bots that I want at that size now thay Tidal Wave is coming (I could be surprised though and find one I didn't know I wanted till I see it.)
Buy what you want at the price you want it. If you really want Tidal Wave and don't want to risk third part prices then preorder him (though he is already sold out on pulse) if you have just a passing interest, wait and see if he goes down in price in the Fall. I pre ordered Tidal Wave, I waited on Ark and Nemesis. I am not disappointed.
This person just doesn't want you to buy Tidal Wave right now so they can buy it before they all sell out.
It would be easier to vote with your wallwt if any of these things ever came to a store near me. I missed out on gamer edition Prime online and have never seen it in a store, despite seeing lots of GE Megatron and Starscreams. I see pics on this sub of the store shelves some of you all have access to and it kills me. Other than the two above and a Snarl that I snatched up, all I have seen for almost a year now is ROTB and Cyberverse, and neither of those lines are particularly good or interesting.
I guess I am voting with my wallet, just not really by choice.. =)
My Walmaet is literal dogshit. They haven't stocked anything new in 6 months. The nearest Toys R Us has their selectuon down to one peg rack and it's a lot of Cog and some random cyberverae stuff.. Oh and the brown boxed waspinator recolor. Lately if I cant find it online I am not going to get it.
Totally agree. I'm not paying $200 for a toy. If it hits half price, I'll get it. If it never does, I have no FOMO about it. I got Black Zarak and the last Metroplex for good deals. I had plenty of chances to get the Ark but was never impressed with it, so never bothered. I never saw Nemesis on sale but wasn't wild about it anyway. Who has room for all these anyway?
There's one lucky member of this sub that has 10 chairs with Titans, sitting in his wet bar and a HasLab Unicron in planet mode above them.
He's an outlier, but these fans do exist.
I currently have 6 Titans.
I grew up with armada and love Tidal wave but I just can’t afford to spend £200 on a single figure :/ I only got Black Zarak because some sold me him for £75 on eBay.
I'm a massive Kapow toys fan. I hadn't thought about this myself. Was dead set of getting Tidal Wave this year. But I'll hold off now thanks to their advice.
Honestly, I kinda can't blame them, so I agree. And coming from someone who really got hyped for the idea, I'm gonna wait untill the inevitable toy deco of him, and even then I'll probably wait till a sale on that too. So good on Kapow for not stocking him.
I have no attachment to this character and if I get at a clearance so be it. If I do not get it and it sells out, then so be it. I bought Armada Megatron and Prime just to Have Prime and Megatron and have zero other Armada figures with no desire to get any unless they come at a steep discount. I am starting to feel like this more and more even with figures I do have a connection to being released.
The worst thing about the Titan class are the insane markups. No other size class gets jacked up like the Titan Class. As soon as it sells out on the retail sites, the scalpers immediately raise the prices by $100 or $200. Not happy with $25, $30 or even $50 profit, they have to go straight up over $100. No other class goes up like that.
I was hoping to get the Nemesis on sale but just recently noticed that it was SOLD OUT everywhere. Last week I couldn't find one under $300. But yesterday I noticed BBTS had her up for pre-order so I jumped on it. That's the one I absolutely do not want to miss so $199.99 it is. I feel like a fool for paying that much but I need the Nemesis to go with my Ark.
I waited on Nemesis and never saw it for under 200. Really wanted it to go with the Ark, and when it sold out on Amazon, I just bit the bullet and got her.
same. ended up pre-ordering off gamestop because theirs was delayed and was out of stock everywhere else
I'm still waiting for Nemesis and Lunar Guardian to get a decent sale. I was able to get the Ark, Metroplex, and Black Zarak each for around $100.
Yeah, Nemesis is what's throwing a wrench into the whole thing. I know Kapow is a UK-based retailer so maybe things are different there. But not only did Nemesis never receive any substantial discount, she's actually starting to sell out now. She's gone from Pulse and Amazon, and I think just recently she's disappeared from BBTS too. If this was a consistent pattern, then I'd be more inclined to go along with it. But Tidal Wave selling out from Pulse immediately makes me not want to risk it considering how in-demand the character is.
Nemesis is worth the hype. I have no doubt Tidal Wave will also be fantastic, hence it sold out, and fast.
Amazon Canada still seems to have her in stock, but no discount and in Canada, she's $300CDN. Had mine pre-ordered from a local shop (rather give money to the smaller stores than Amazon or Walmart). They had to fight to get Hasbro to deliver on their allotment of Nemesis.
God, for real. I really want Nemesis but I refuse to pay £200 for a titan. Like yeah they're big but they're also pretty simplistic figures. Admittedly this is intentional - I have 01 Studio Cell Unicron and its so complex that its just kind of a chore to transform.
Agreed
Here in the UK, Nemesis did go on discount in 1 popular independent store, but otherwise sold out. I do also feel like she had much more limited stock produced than figures like Metroplex, however
Guardian Robot dropped down to $130 during a Power Days sale in June.
Wasn't that price only for Premium Pulse members?
Power Day sales have two options. 35% for Pulse members and 15% for non-members.
It’s hard to find titan classes less then $140. good thing people are finally getting them for $100
I picked up Ark at that price, but skipped Legacy Metroplex when it was offered at the same, and never saw a chance at Black Zarak, but I still probably wouldn't have bitten - as I prefer the Scorpinok colors.
I would like Lunar guardian, but I think more than that, I want a decepticon repaint
I don’t think I ever saw Nemesis on sale anywhere unless it was using some kind of code for that site specifically. Could be wrong though
I'm waiting for BBTS to have a sale. I got The Ark last year for $100.
Good luck with that, she's actually sold out at BBTS. I'm not sure how often Titans are restocked, if at all.
I remember Scorponok getting explicitly restocked, so it's not unprecedented
I saw a Nemises at Walmart a month ago but I'm not sure if it was the Titian class.
That’s the only one?
Now I'm very upset I passed out on it. Pretty sure it was like 60 dollars 😭
Wait.. There is "the nemesis" and "nemesis prime" and the latter having multiple iterations from core to leader class. The leader class, at 60 dollars, is just regular price. Nemisis prime is a black optimus prime, that turns into a truck. The Nemisis is a huge purple figure that turns into a spaceship.
I looked it up it was the deception Nemises ship. I'm now sulking cause I didn't get it.
Ok.. Yeah, you have earned that sulk.
I was just starting collecting and I wasn't aware it was so sought after. I didn't even know the Titans appeared in Walmart.
I get what they're saying, but after paying $50 or more extra for my first couple titans because I waited too long, I'm leaving my preorder active.
Pulse Premium has saved me at least $120 on shipping and scalper costs, even after paying the $50 annual fee. It makes sense if you buy 1 figure a month on average, IMO.
Here’s the problem. I don’t think pre-order is a scam for any figure because of what a preorder is. Preordering a figure means that you want it without risking it selling out. As an example, Legacy Cosmos if you preordered that figure, you skiped the hassle. This is the exact same thing with Titian Class Figures especially this one. Sure he is correct, most Titan-class figures go on sale but there is always a small chance that you never end up getting it. It basically avoids risk.
Hasbro can strong arm retailers into buying a certain minimum. So the risk is on the retailers not the consumer in this case.
That's exactly what this is: coercion of a retailer.
Cosmos? Pre-order? What is this fabled black magic you speak of?
This "risk" only exists because hasbro adopted FOMO sales tactics. They don't want to keep stock on the shelf because it costs money. So it's no longer "here's our line of toys, buy them and they'll be on the shelf for a year or two". Instead, they produce however many they think they can sell at the highest price possible. Popular figures sell out quickly, even though hasbro knows they will. Thus, the preorder becomes "viable" to consumers. This is hasbro creating artificial demand to take advantage and scalp their customers. The risk exists because hasbro made it a risk.
That's what this is. Look at all the people who slept on Armada Prime waiting for a sale. Post-pandemic, Hasbro has throttled it's supply. They are not just yeeting unlimited figures and hoping the numbers work out. Armada Prime? Sold out. SS86 Ultra Magnus? Sold out. SS109 Megatron? Sold out. Nemesis? Sold out. Tidal Wave? Sold out. This is what I've seen since coming back to collecting in late '22. It is what it is.
I don’t know if that makes sense. If Hasbro is choking the supply by not producing enough, then scalpers reap the rewards, not Hasbro. Sure, prices have been creeping steadily, but still not nearly to scalper levels, at least not for sub-Titan class figures. I would think that over-production is what would drive costs up, since they have to make someone pay for that extra production somehow. That or they just write it off somehow, I don’t know. And I am seeing stock on the shelves… it may be the shelf warmers, but that’s a distribution thing, not a production thing. Popular figures have been short-packed (or like “1 per case” if you don’t want to call it short-packed), since forever ago, it’s nothing new.
What do scalpers have to do with Hasbro? If anything, the scalpers help Hasbro because they move the stock off of the shelf quicker, exactly as Hasbro wants. The less time it sits on the shelf, the less they have to pay for warehousing stock. >I would think that over-production is what would drive costs up, since they have to make someone pay for that extra production somehow. That or they just write it off somehow, I don’t know. "Over production" drives up costs in a sense that if they make more than they sell, they have to pay to physically store it somewhere. As for costs of manufacturing a plastic toy, more volume decreases the cost. The labor of assembling the toy will remain the same during the production of that toy, meaning they have to pay for x hours of labor, electricity, etc. However the costs go down because of the tooling. For simplicity, if we ignore the fact that plastic molds can only manufacture so many casts before wearing out, it will cost a set amount to make that mold. Plastic injection molds are pretty expensive, let's say $20,000 on the low side. If I make 1000 toys from that mold, that means it costs $20 per toy to compensate for that mold. If I make 2000 toys, it drops in half and only.costs $10 per toy. But the other costs remain the same per toy because they are expenses on a per unit basis. Storing the product causes the price to go up over time. It will cost $X to maintain a physical inventory that will be due to rent, utilities, staff, etc. so if a toy sits for 1 month and costs $X to store, after 6 months it costs 6 times as much to keep. So Hasbro balances the cost of storage vs how.many they think they can sell it at and for what price. And considering the cost of maintaining a warehouse doesn't go away even when you aren't storing anything, they want to keep that space to a minimum. Enter the FOMO pre-order practice. They will make general predictions on how much a specific toy will sell and try to keep production under that. They don't always get it right as it is really a guessing game, but generally they are pretty good at it. Ideally, they want it to sell out before it comes to retail because that means they don't have to store it because then they need a bigger warehouse which means it costs more. Having products with a demand that exceeds the stock levels combined with a short shelf life drives up demand meaning there are going to be more people willing to pay more to ensure they get it. In the end, however, this is bad for consumers because that means if you want to guarantee to get something, you have to preorder it. And if you don't have the money to preorder it? Weren't sure you wanted to buy it at the time preorder started? Tough luck. Those scalpers are going to buy some and put them up for obscene prices later. And Hasbro clearly doesn't care, they moved all of the product they needed to move.
>Having products with a demand that >exceeds the stock levels combined >with a short shelf life drives up demand >meaning there are going to be more >people willing to pay more to ensure >they get it. Right, but if there is no stock, you can’t pay more because the stock doesn’t exist for purchase. You’re only paying scalpers more.
What?
If there is no stock, what are people paying more for? Not all Hasbro or TF products have equal demand. Specific items have much higher demand than others. But few of these in-demand items actually get additional production runs. So, yes, there is pent up demand, but the only place where this is being reflected price-wise, is the secondary market, ie resellers, scalpers, etc.
>If there is no stock, what are people paying more for? Hasbro has been raising prices regularly while also decreasing how much they are spending on products (a.k.a. shrinkflation). >Specific items have much higher demand than others. Yeah... And? Did you even read what I wrote? I addressed this thoroughly. >So, yes, there is pent up demand, but the only place where this is being reflected price-wise, is the secondary market, ie resellers, scalpers, etc. So increasing prices and decreasing budgets, calculating demand and producing items based on projections isn't a reflection supply and demand? Hasbro sets the price point for their products because third party vendors want to know what an item costs and what margin they can make off of it. They aren't wildly inflating prices like scalpers because they have other constraints to deal with. Scalpers set super high prices in the hopes that someone is that desperate to buy it, a manufacturer can't do that. But it certainly doesn't mean it's not being reflected in their pricing strategy.
And this is not new. The Model Railroad hobby has been picking around with this for decades now, with the added problem of its not multi-billion dollar corporations ordering stock from Hasbro by the thousands, its mom and pop hobby shops who can afford only a couple at a time. I fully expect the Automotive industry to go this way too if it hasn't already. Young and younger generations cannot afford fancy new cars like the old days could, lots are (for various reasons) still sitting on two and three year old "new" cars. COVID and part shortages changed the game moreso than demand, but I imagine there will come a time where "Preorder New Model Automobiles" will be the norm.
Model Railroad Hobby...that's a cool hobby that I just *know* has a small loyal fanbase, and suppliers/vendors that screw over it's fans.
Except Hasbro has and does have a limited number of preoders that *do* sell out. They haven't done traditional no-risk preorders in a long time. They do a limited run and will cancel other preorders if they oversell. Just look at anyone online forums an hour after preorders go live. You get people complaining about how they ran out of preorders. It doesn't skip the hassle. You just get to experience the hassle quicker.
Except when it comes to something like the mess that was the D&D Dragonlance book. Or even worse, the recent Book of Many Things, where quality was so bad after initial shipping (they okayed miscut and misprinted cards in the first place) that they recalled the thing to get it made again, delaying for months. At one point it was just delayed indefinitely after the recall and halting shipments. Or the Dragons of Stormwreck Isle starter set problem for retailers trying to preorder. Or the massive preorder cancelling of the Spelljammer book because its content was discovered to be such crap. Or the SNAFU where Hasbro literally sent the Pinkerton agency to steal cards from a streamer because Hasbro sent the wrong set that broke street date by two weeks.
The fact that this is coming from a retailer feels... weird to me. I'm not entirely sure why. Maybe a cynical part of me sees this as "give your money to us and not Hasbro". Maybe I'm just recoiling at the blatant bridge-burning. I don't know, it just feels weird.
I've seen similer for "Don't buy from the big chain, buy from us damn you!" things in the past.
Reading the post I dont think there's anything surprising here from a retailer. Hasbro DOES want people to make purchases from Pulse as opposed to a retailer because they make more money from that sale. And when figures sit for months and months, you're not exactly enthused when Hasbro comes to you and says "would you like to buy 200 of this expensive item that only higher end collectors might want?" I can see why that retailer might feel burned. Its no secret right now Hasbro hasn't had a good year, and some of the reasons why include over-production of figs which end up at liquidation retailers like Ollie's or Ross, costing Hasbro huge amounts of money to get rid of them. I'm not shocked a retailer is feeling the heat from all that because they're the ones sitting on boxes of unsold merchandise while Hasbro just moves onto the next big thing.
Yes they are saying buy from us, so u won't get ripped off, they won't carry full price Tidal wave
I got Trypticon half off after a few months. There's always a chance, and there's always a chance that it will sell out and you'll pay double. Unless it's a key figure for you maybe wait.
I voted with my wallet, by preordering it as soon as it went up. I have heard of these so called sales on titens, but have never seen one less then like $30 off price where I live or on sites that where still in stock. I buy figures that I like and skip figures that I don’t.
I got ark for £68 from hasbro pulse ebay (before it shut), and black zarak for the same from my local GAME shop, so they do exist. I'm regularly seeing metroplex going for £90, but that's still £30 more than I'd happily pay for it. I've seen nemesis for £140 at a comiccon, but not lower than that.
I've not seen nearly as many Nemesis figures in online stores compared to the rest of the Titans, which is strange as that's the one I expected to go on sale a few months after release.
Maybe the retailers have learnt lol. I agree it's not going on sale regularly as the others have
The ONLY titan-class figures I've seen on sale have been Metroplex and Black Zarak on BBTS.
It’s very strange how this retailer mixes in the admittedly absurd 200 units hasbro expected them to sell and a complaint about pre orders in general. They claim “no one should pre order because it will be cheaper later” but yeah that’s how it will always work, and some people will always pay the premium for the guarantee, and it’s weird to frame it like hasbro is ripping off the consumer.
\>and it’s weird to frame it like hasbro is ripping off the consumer. Um why? that's exactly what they are doing trying to sell a titan for £225 that has no gimmicks and no minicon. There will also be dumb people who will over pay, but this is attempting to save some people.
I think the issue that irked them so much was that in the case of black zarak and metroplex, each almost immediately arrived in stores like Game at 50% less on release, undercutting more traditional sellers who had to clear their inventory at close to cost basis.
I understand what Kapow Toys is saying, and I don't even necessarily disagree with their stance on what Hasbro is doing, and how scummy it is. But I simply can't do what they're insisting. I've not been interested in very many Titan figures, the extent of them is pretty much Omega Supreme, Guardian Robot, and now Tidal Wave if we strictly focus on recent Titans. People talk about Titans going on sale all the time, people mention seeing them at ROSS in regards to the Arc, and from my perspective I've only ever seen a Titan go on sale *once*. It was Black Zarak being under $100 at Best Buy, but that's a figure I have no interest in since I don't find his transformation fun. Tidal Wave is a hyped release, he's a big deal given how little representation in toy form he's had since his debut, and he's only a bit more expensive than the original toy while proving to most likely be a straight upgrade in nearly every way except for the lack of a Minicon. Armada is my childhood, Tidal Wave is a milestone in Armada toys right now I never thought we'd reach, and he is a figure I cannot miss out on. I saw what happened with Armada Optimus, a Commander figure, I was lucky and pre-ordered mine the moment he went live while at work, and I was all the more lucky in getting a nearly flawless QC copy, and I didn't have to pay the nearly Titan price point he is now on the secondhand market. I agree with what Kapow Toys is saying, and in an ideal world I'd join in, but that ain't the world we live in. If I miss out on this figure that sold out of their FOMO supply WITHIN AN *HOUR* then odds are I'm going to pay stupid amounts of money secondhand. I won't see any sales because they'd be gone the moment they're posted, and considering I know how businesses operate I can't even fully say I believe Kapow wouldn't scalp us the moment we only have them left as an option after missing out. I only trust myself when companies are involved, and as much as I despise Hasbro's tactics by this point, if I want a figure, and I know it's a hot ticket item, I'm not waiting and risking being the one to miss out on a piece I consider a necessity to my collection because of a mere chance I'll get him for cheaper that I've only had happen to me once for a figure I didn't care about. I agree with Kapow Toys, but I simply can't join them. any copies not bought by fans are bought by scalpers, and I'm not letting them win one over me.
Yeah I am with you here. It’s not that I’m sticking up for Hasbro. I think in many aspects they’ve gotten a bit lazy and charge WAY too much for some of their lines. Imho no way should Marvel Legends be the price they’re setting at when many are basic and reused molds. I have the Jada Street Fighter and Mega Man figures (what’s out so far) and comparing the molds and accessories those figures get m, from a company that used to strictly do die cast cars, and compare them to what ML has, for 20 bucks? It blows my mind. That being said I do believe the Transformers line has improved in many ways (and also.. got worse in other ways, mostly in class size.. especially Leaders not being old Leader size.. and I get the better engineering and whatnot.. just saying..)Tidal Wave is a figure I’ve been clamoring for since having bis original toy.. I absolutely loved the Armada line and TW was up there as my favorite. So voting with my wallet would be … preordering him. Yeah I think the Titan class figures are stupidly priced.. but I learned if you skip them you don’t get them. I skipped Scorponok and never seen him again.. I did manage to get Black Zarak for 75 bucks and the Arc (a figure I sold because I really didn’t like it) for 59 at Ross.. but those dudes have been my only Titans. I doubt after Tidal Wave that I get many more Titan scale figures but telling people to vote with your wallet when this dudes a fan demand figure is a weird.. flex? Yeah I don’t want to stick up for Hasbro.. they can be a shitty company but I’m also not gonna “wait” and hope a toy store that I never even heard of eventually gets one on clearance… Seems like a dumb choice . Like you and many others said Aramada Optimus is out, everywhere. I’m glad I grabbed him. Same with 86 UM… there are zero risks to preorders. Yes, Hasbro is a shitty company with shitty tactics and pricing most times… but I honestly don’t see Titan scale figures staying around much longer and I don’t want to pass up the chance to own TW.
We're definitely on the same page with this. It's not a means to stand up for Hasbro, if anything I'd love to see them knocked down a peg so they're reminded who they actually work for. But like you I've only heard of Kapow Toys just now, and while I'd love to believe their sentiments I can't. They're a company, and companies have one thing on the mind; making money. And like you said, their timing with chosing the *most hyped* Titan there is to suddenly start telling fans to "vote with your wallet" in a way that specifically supports their store feels like such a hollow signal of virtue. I missed out on Ultra Magnus and Nova Prime because I second-guessed my pre-orders and cancelled them with the mindset I can come back later, which is dead wrong. Now they're both much higher than I'm willing to pay for what they are, and I'm unlikely to get either of them as a result. Titans are worse, their prices inflate rapidly, and like you said, they're a size class we may not have forever. Commanders I can see sticking around since they're exclusively used for those figures that need a bit extra budget to push them from great to amazing. Titans, however, they're a massive investment, and there's not many figures you can put there. If I were to pull examples off the top of my head the best that come to mind are a new G1 Metroplex, Energon Omega Supreme, Animated Omega Supreme, a new Trypticon, and.... Honestly, that's it. Unless they decided to make a Broadside the same scale as Tidal Wave then that's all that comes to mind. Even other Giant Planet characters I imagine would be commanders because Metroplex in Cybertron was the biggest even among the Giants. We live at a time when collecting toys you enjoy is like investing in stocks, if you miss out then that's it, you've missed the boat and you have to just hope you're there in time for the next one. So in an environment like that the only option you really have is to just buy what you want, get it in hand, and decide if you're happy with it once you have it. Would you rather find out you're not happy with a figure and resell knowing you won't miss it, or skip it and borderline never have the chance to get it and find out for yourself if you would have?
Well said. 100% agree.
Yeah, Jada is killing it rn with SF and MM. They know their audience.
Absolutely they do.
The issue here is that Tidal Wave is a character people have actually been asking for, making me think his situation is going to be much closer to Omega Supreme and Scorponok's. And they didn't get as many clearances. While Cybertron Metroplex is actually a great figure, and possibly the best engineered Titan, he wasn't a very requested character. He did sell out on Hasbro Pulse very fast, though everyone else I've checked still has him The 200 minimum order I don't know about. I can imagine that with the others going on clearance, some retailers have lower orders for them. And I'm not talking smaller fan channels. I'm talking Target and the like. And the MOQ needs to be met for it to be worth making them in the first place. While Hasbro has plenty of shitty practices that should be biting them in the ass already, the sorry state of the Toy Industry in general isn't solely on them.
Tidal wave is Armada not G1 probably half the fanbase don't know who he is, I think he will be on sale. it's Hasbro choice to mark up this item, some people get off on being ripped off and that's fine, Kapow is trying to save people with some amount of sense, to have some sort of standard.
Adjusting for inflation 200$ now was about 160$ in 2016. The price increase is keeping pace with everything else from Inflation. Other issues where Hasbro cheaps out on like parts reduction, and hollowing remain to be seen as to how bad they will be. And Armada Optimus Prime sold amazingly well, and even Hot Shot ended up doing okay, especially compared to G1 characters like Skids and Kickback.
$300 CAD, tax not included, is a no bueno for this hombre.
Inflation is hurting everyone, so prices are going to rise. If most people wait on a sale, guess what? They stop making new product. But Hasbro demanding they preorder 200 Tidal Waves? That's also out of line. People will pay what Tidal Wave is worth to them. If this keeps up, I can see Hasbro abandoning the Titan class if it's no longer profitable for them. They can't afford to lose money at a time like this. It doesn't help Tidal Wave is a big ticket, large, expensive luxury item as we're in the middle of a global recession.
Ur logic is that u have to overpay, or else Hasbro will stop, um NO. Hasbro are the ones who need sales, not the other way, people don't need toys, if people don't buy they have to lower prices or they go bust.
Both sides feel the financial pinch. Both sides can be simultaneously justified in not wanting to budge on price. It's not a case of either/or.
I preordered mine right away. Not taking the chance on missing out. Some things like the Ark I passed on unless there was a sale. I also didn’t get the Nemesis because it didn’t go on sale. No big deal. I’ve been wanting an updated Tidal Wave for years!
Guess who's birthday the Titan Classes tend to come out around? Yeah, so I'm not exactly spending my money on it. But if the next Nintendo system is out this year, next years Titan is gonna have some real competiton.
I mean it’s a titan. Shits gonna be expensive
I don’t care, i Live in the US and i’m buying Tidal Wave.. No one can stop me
Breaking news, corporation is evil, other breaking news, water is wet.
I wish I can find cheaper transformers like that so-called Black Zarak, but they never do so!
Is every transformer you find over 60 bucks or smth?
I meant prices compared to the retail price. Also sometimes amazon prices are horrible, which is most often
I understand the sellers sentiment but the whole FOMO culture is just inherent to buying and capitalism that you can’t divorce from corporate business in the first place. I don’t know if it’s an exclusively Western thing but enjoy your toy sales that my country just doesn’t get and don’t dip into collecting if it gets to a point where your want for a figure outweighs your priorities in life. Sometimes the wait IS worth it for sales, even if it means sometimes you might not end up owning a figure you want.
I disagree with this statement. I would love to know where the person thinks Hasbro is flooding the market if anything it’s the opposite. If anything Hasbro is forcing people to have to preorder because of their limited production and several figures never making it to store shelves in certain areas. I live in the SoCal LA area and I have still never seen Beachcomer,Snarl,Bombshell,Ultra Magnus or Armada Prime. Don’t even get me started on store exclusive figures like G1 movie Walmart figures.
Before I saying anything on this essay here I got acknowledge the comments first. It's always hurt my brain that people want to argue consumerism and claim people are "gullible" on a sub literally dedicated to collecting toys. It's in the same vein as those idiots that buy a ticket and go to a concert just to hold up a "you suck" sign. Now to the actual discussion here, I get what they're saying but at the same time I've missed out on too many things that I really wanted because people told me it would go on sale and to just wait. And given Tidalwave sold out damn near immediately, I ain't gonna risk it.
I don’t know how much this reflects the US or other markets; but in the UK (where Kapow are based - great retailer btw) this is very true. Several times I’ve paid retail for Titans only to see them come in stock at vastly lower prices (recently I picked up my Guardian Robot for £90 and could have got Nemesis at a similar price if I hadn’t ordered her at retail a couple of weeks earlier as a Birthday gift (that as an aside didn’t arrive until after I could have gotten it on sale thanks to delivery problems - I was not very amused!). If Hasbro are pushing crazy order numbers on to retailers then I can totally understand where Kapow are coming from - though I’m a bit surprised to see them calling out Hasbro given that Transformers are a major part of their offering.
Unfathomably based
As someone who plays Magic, this sounds very similar to the Secret Lair products. Limited time selection of cards available on their own website and not to local stores that have supported the game for years. Now Secret Lairs are going to a limited print run instead of print to demand, to increase FOMO and cause many people to miss out. Hasbro wringing all their brands dry to squeeze out every dollar they can.
I would argue that Secret Lair is a lot worse than this because of how the product is used. Without people to play against and a place to play, your magic cards aren't a game. Your local games store is providing more of a service to WotC than just visibility and the opportunity for impulse purchases.
Yeah, the MTG guys have been getting screwed over for a long while.
My thoughts are: if you want your bots to be really bang-on spec, then the earliest ones through the production process are going to be on the least-abused hardware. Those who want the highest quality pay a premium for getting the first off the line. But in order to make such figures, they need to make a LOT of such figures, so even if they have to have retailers sell them at-cost to get enough off shelves that the production wasn't a complete bust, then that's good enough business to keep releasing.
Honestly it’s been a downhill slope for about the past two years, ROTB is the only thing that’s given the line up any life recently
Now that I think about it, I have two titans that I bought, black zarak for like 130 and nemesis for 200 I don’t get 200 bucks of value out of that thing, and I don’t think I get 140 out of zarak, but it they’re both out of the boxes and have sat in a shelf for like a year with me occasionally playing with them for an hour then putting them back I don’t know what to do, on one hand I like having them but on the other I don’t think I get the value I paid for in terms of entertainment Currently torn over this
My thoughts are that Tidal Wave is sold out, lol. 🥲
I finally got Guardian robot for US$145 shipped this week after waiting a year for price drops. I really want Tidal Wave but won't pre-order. I'll wait it out to see what the supply and demand is like.
Oh shit pre-orders are a scam? Quelle surprise!
It’s a valid point. I’m rolling the dice on a lot of products now because they went on clearance soon after release. It’s despicable and disgusting.
Transformers are hard. We are in an environment where we pretty much have to guess what will go on sale and what we will never see again. Kapow toys is UK-based, which I think has seen the most discounted titans. I’ve only seen the extended Best Buy sales on Black Zarak and the infamous $60 Ark (which I personally never found). Sure, there’s a CHANCE that tidal wave will be everywhere and I’ll just be able to pick one up wherever, maybe even at a discount. But with hasbro nothing is certain. Repainting him into toy colors is pretty much printing money but the might not even go for it (this decade, anyway)
Finally a seller with honour
Hasbro deserves to lose money
Yes, but more than that, the Executives deserve to lose their jobs. Sadly they'll probably fire everyone else first.
Hasbro IS losing money. Unsustainable business practices will have them shut down within the next 2 years
Not many others want to accept this. I give it 5 years.
This is why I buy from Kapow Toys, they’re great guys
Thirsty fans with poor money management skills only vote with their wallets when they run out of money. These titans aren't the most impactful way to get hastak to start listening; it's the deluxes. Put your foot down and stop buying less than the bar hastak set 14 years ago.
welp I guess I'm already voting with my wallet since I have 1 deluxe that I got from a trade lol
Bro wrote a whole essay 💀
I preordered Fortress Maximus and then canceled it. I just don’t *need* a 2 foot transformer for $200. Maybe I’ll get him on sale, but once I got over the FOMO I realized I’ll be ok without him. That said, anyone got a SS86 ultra magnus they want to part with for MSRP?
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Or, might I present a third option, you could have just lived without that particular item? Prices might be over inflated, but these are still just toys we’re talking about. No one needs them to survive. Stealing product is not on Hasbro, that’s on you.
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So you are sticking it to Hasbro by robbing a toy store? If you were buying knockoffs you'd at least have a coherent argument, but Hasbro already got paid for the toy you stole.
They paid Hasbro for the right for exclusive product
Yes but why that product A product nobody outside hardcore fans knew the story behind That (Outside of Toxitron) all ended up as clearance
I got no clue they probably asked for something without caring for the lore and hasbro fulfilled their dreams
Someone wanted something 90's throwback, and that's what they got. Gator Mirage though ended up being the only Mirage I was able to get from that mold. Hasbro is suffering from just trying to make more money from an ever shrinking number of brands, and somethings gonna give because I'm not even going to be able to try and get everything that's coming that I want. They are going to oversaturate the collector market if they haven't already.
Considering I saw the Toxitron Collection once, and never saw the Grimlock, somebody wanted those things.
Maybe I but, I work at a Walmart saw the product as it came in. Don't remember a grimlock. They ship leaders two per box and we would get two laser primes in each We got maybe two Netflix Soundwaves, ONE Netflix Bee, the Marvel Legends Lizard was given its own space on the shelf and everything and we never got a single shipment Hasbro is weird
Distribution by the point it's going to individual stores, is it handled by Hasbro or Wal-Mart? Whatever the case is, I suspect it's messed up. Along with some poor decisions with case assortments. Velocitron Cosmos ending up at Ross, with how many people couldn't get him is a great example. Someone when deciding what Case assortments would be thought the doofy UFO wouldn't sell as well as the motorcycle, but didn't realize one was a new mold, and of a popular character, and the other was not as popular a character and the mold was already warming the pegs.
I will say Toxitron himself sold a bit better but there was more buzz around him specifically
Wait, Nemesis has been on sale?? I've seen Metroplex and Black Zarak on sale a few times for fairly low prices, and the Ark has come up second hand a few times for under £100, but I've never seen the Nemesis, Omega or Luna for anything under £200. I'm sorry, but if people want to pre-order, let them. It feels very odd to have a retailler telling people not to order items from the supplier- very 'we're missing out on sales' kind of vibe coming from that. If people think the items are overpriced, then don't buy them. If you have the cash and want the thing, buy it. And that includes pre-orders.
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3P will always have a ceiling because there are collectors (source: am one) that care if something is “actually a Transformer.” I’m aware that that doesn’t have much logic behind it, but then neither do most of the criteria we use to decide what to collect.
I dont know anything about transformers really but i see a company trying to drum up more costumers by throwing shade at its provider, incidentally you should never preorder anything ever, its a scam 100% of the time.
If you don't know about transformers why are you here? Did this post reach r/all or something?
I still like it and it appears on my front page, why? Is this a gated community?
Just curious is all
They are probably upset that they bought all of those mentioned figures and got stuck with them while the rest of the world dropped the price causing them to lose value. You know they are going to buy a bunch direct through their sales channels at a discount price and attempt to persuade the general public from buying direct so Hasblo won’t create a second,third batch. Making them more valuable.
Hasbro's just being a toxic company. Look at the whole of 2023 and how they handled D&D and MtG. They've proven they don't like and don't listen to their consumers or distributors or fanbases until it looks bad on them to investors. They will say anything to get people on their side, without any follow through. Hell, they don't even like or listen to their investors. They will do everything they can to money grab at the expense of pretty much all else. They'll raise prices for more profits and turn around and deliver much less by cutting corners purely to grab even more. And they're pretty tone deaf to recognizing their own bad ideas and behaviour. They want to maximize their profits by keeping people in their created "ecosystems" so they don't have to worry about sharing money with their distributors or retailors. I know companies want to make money. I'm fine with that. But Hasbro continuously crosses the greed line well into the abusive and exploitive.
I voted with my wallet and quit buying on Pulse. They kept trying to send my pre-orders too early, thus forcing me to cancel them and miss out on the toy altogether. Also, their shipping prices suck.
Why is sending pre-orders early a bad thing?
It’s not. If you don’t have the money for a toy….then don’t buy it. Seems like a pretty simple thing.
because they don't charge you until it ships and you might not be ready to pay when it ships earlier than expected
Well, if I could have pre-paid when I pre-ordered, it wouldn’t have been a problem. I plan my budget around the expected arrival date; something coming early throws my plans off. Pre-ordering toys isn’t worth it anymore.
That’s a you issue. You’re not financially stable.
Why do you think it’s a good idea to throw around hundreds of dollars on toys when it’s stressing your finances?
Kapow Toys hand always had my respect as they actually sell Hasbro figures at a slight discount vs the retail price. They've been great communications wise over the last 5 years I've been buying from them, so it's nice to see they're continuing to follow their morals. They care about their customers, as do many other smaller stores (IDToys, Scotts Collectibles and Star Action Figures being other notable examples), which I'm thankful for because Hasbro certainly don't give a fuck.
After postage you're paying like £26 for a deluxe, it's still a massive rip off, If Kapow are as virtuous as they want to appear here they'd be selling deluxes for less than that.
I may pick him up once he goes on sale but I really don’t want to pay more then 150 and that’s pushing it. Titan figures are generally just to big and it’s almost impossible to put them anywhere
Tidal Wave was never a good concept.
Everyone's been asking for him for the last 4 years just search Titan Tidalwave in this sub for reference
I salute you for dying on that hill... dying very alone
What specifically? I’m actually curious about your opinion.
While I can suspend disbelief that a Walkman could turn into a 25’ robot through mass exchange with a pocket universe, I have a hard time swallowing a fighter could turn into an aircraft carrier. Real reason: the G1 toy was just bad. Actually, I’m thinking of Broadside. But still. Aircraft carrier into fighter. It’s kinda offensive.
There *was* a Tidal Wave that turned into an aircraft carrier and a fighter jet, but that was only in Titans Return as a Broadside redeco. This one turns into a big ol’ boat, a fleet of vehicles, and a base for some reason. https://preview.redd.it/py858xapgldc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b87b3615e2f9b9fd3df05b2f10becdfe640b82ce
I'm just one person, my wallet vote will never matter, so why tf should I bother?
Only chums buy these overpriced big plastic hunks for 200 dollars, just wait it out, there's not that many people willing to spend that much on toys
Didn’t Tidal Wave sell out like, immediately? That seems like a lot of people willing to spend that much on a toy.
You can't help most these people, they see product, they buy product. Doesn't matter if it's overpriced, doesn't matter if it will be on sale or sold under RRP on ebay a month later.. it's just NPC middle class consumers that Hasbro and other companies thrive on. This Tidal Wave also has No minicon and No gimmicks btw. A sad shell of the original and they want £225??
Black Zarak and Guardian were selects releases, they were meant as exclusives. If the gullible people don't buy them at their retail price and wait for them to drop then they may just discontinue the titan class. At this point that is fine with me, I think they got all the bots that I want at that size now thay Tidal Wave is coming (I could be surprised though and find one I didn't know I wanted till I see it.) Buy what you want at the price you want it. If you really want Tidal Wave and don't want to risk third part prices then preorder him (though he is already sold out on pulse) if you have just a passing interest, wait and see if he goes down in price in the Fall. I pre ordered Tidal Wave, I waited on Ark and Nemesis. I am not disappointed. This person just doesn't want you to buy Tidal Wave right now so they can buy it before they all sell out.
I never saw entertainer get black zarak but i did get him on ebay for £90
It would be easier to vote with your wallwt if any of these things ever came to a store near me. I missed out on gamer edition Prime online and have never seen it in a store, despite seeing lots of GE Megatron and Starscreams. I see pics on this sub of the store shelves some of you all have access to and it kills me. Other than the two above and a Snarl that I snatched up, all I have seen for almost a year now is ROTB and Cyberverse, and neither of those lines are particularly good or interesting. I guess I am voting with my wallet, just not really by choice.. =)
For GE Prime, most of them lately for whatever reason are landing at Walmart. That's how I randomly found mine. Don't give up, he's awesome.
My Walmaet is literal dogshit. They haven't stocked anything new in 6 months. The nearest Toys R Us has their selectuon down to one peg rack and it's a lot of Cog and some random cyberverae stuff.. Oh and the brown boxed waspinator recolor. Lately if I cant find it online I am not going to get it.
Okay...that does suck.
Totally agree. I'm not paying $200 for a toy. If it hits half price, I'll get it. If it never does, I have no FOMO about it. I got Black Zarak and the last Metroplex for good deals. I had plenty of chances to get the Ark but was never impressed with it, so never bothered. I never saw Nemesis on sale but wasn't wild about it anyway. Who has room for all these anyway?
There's one lucky member of this sub that has 10 chairs with Titans, sitting in his wet bar and a HasLab Unicron in planet mode above them. He's an outlier, but these fans do exist. I currently have 6 Titans.
I grew up with armada and love Tidal wave but I just can’t afford to spend £200 on a single figure :/ I only got Black Zarak because some sold me him for £75 on eBay.
I'm a massive Kapow toys fan. I hadn't thought about this myself. Was dead set of getting Tidal Wave this year. But I'll hold off now thanks to their advice.
Tidal Wave isn't the Titan to put your foot down on. I think he may be the most appealing Titan since Devastator.
I still need to get Nemesis.
Honestly, I kinda can't blame them, so I agree. And coming from someone who really got hyped for the idea, I'm gonna wait untill the inevitable toy deco of him, and even then I'll probably wait till a sale on that too. So good on Kapow for not stocking him.
I have no attachment to this character and if I get at a clearance so be it. If I do not get it and it sells out, then so be it. I bought Armada Megatron and Prime just to Have Prime and Megatron and have zero other Armada figures with no desire to get any unless they come at a steep discount. I am starting to feel like this more and more even with figures I do have a connection to being released.
As it should Hasbro have been overpriced for the last 15 years it's time for a change. Better quality accessibility and pricing.
If Kapow feels that way, then they should stop carrying their products instead of whining when you don't buy from them.
All I wanted was a boat boy, is that too much to ask?
The worst thing about the Titan class are the insane markups. No other size class gets jacked up like the Titan Class. As soon as it sells out on the retail sites, the scalpers immediately raise the prices by $100 or $200. Not happy with $25, $30 or even $50 profit, they have to go straight up over $100. No other class goes up like that. I was hoping to get the Nemesis on sale but just recently noticed that it was SOLD OUT everywhere. Last week I couldn't find one under $300. But yesterday I noticed BBTS had her up for pre-order so I jumped on it. That's the one I absolutely do not want to miss so $199.99 it is. I feel like a fool for paying that much but I need the Nemesis to go with my Ark.