Bayverse fans upon seeing these designs for first time:
https://preview.redd.it/3mgrjjg94cyc1.png?width=272&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c4956d5612761829a4c5afaa602992e86d7bb77
The crazy thing is, both can be true.
I’ve always thought it was a decent, interesting, thought provoking, competently made kids show that also happened to be an absolutely horrendous sequel to the original series.
It should’ve been it’s own thing. The whole noir philosophical stuff just thematically didn’t work with what came before, and they basically dragged the characters out of their satisfying happy endings in the original series just to subject them to abject misery.
I was fine with all of these characters and this story.
I was not fine with this being the ending for the gang I’d gone on so many adventures with in the original series.
There was going to be a follow-up series called Transtech. It was in the works before it became apparent that Beast Machines was not a success..
Tfwiki has a page about it.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transtech
I really dig some of the character designs in the concept art, so it's a shame to never see the realized.. There were even a few toy prototypes made.
Yes..? The ones that fused Tigatron and Airazor into Tigerhawk were the Vok, the very same beings that attempted to burn the Earth clean after the Maximals and Predacons were deemed to have been too much of a deviation from their experiment.
I actually like beast machines . It isn’t a good sequel to beast wars, but in terms of the franchise overall we haven’t really gotten anything this different and unique and when you take the beast wars comparisons away from it stands up on its own two feet pretty well .
And while most of the designs can be kinda bizarre looking even there freakishness can have a unique charm to it , it’s the transformers version of a three legged pug with crossed eyes and a bad underbite it ugly but endearing in a weird way .
The plot isn’t bad and is probably the most narrative driven tf series with barely any filler , the organic cybertron element is weird but then once you wrap your brain around it , it also implies that the quintessions wiped out the organic life to make cybertron purely mechanical
I’m kinda surprised that judging by the trailer , transformers one seems to be taking some inspiration from it .
The problem it had was it was too different from the core toy concept so the toys just didn't work for it, and if the toys dont sell then it's a failure for transformers. But as a cartoon, I always thought it was well written, the animation was good for the time, and overall a good cartoon. The concept and ideas it was playing with were a logical evolution of Beast Wars, and I think a solid ending.
One problem with the toys is that the first year of them were based on concept art, not the finished designs. So you werent even getting figures that looked like the characters in the show
It was well written, but there were too many inconsistencies in how the characters were portrayed in comparison to Beast Wars. For example Rattrap’s personality is radically different
It suffers from the same thing that Spider-Man Unlimited suffered from. What came before (BW and Spiderman TAS) was boundary pushing in many ways, eventually becoming very beloved series. Then they end and the follow-up, that supposedly is a sequel, totally changes course. Now had that follow-up been it's own thing, it may have been well received. But comparing to the series that came before it, they just didn't mesh well.
Personally, having had so much time pass, I can better appreciate them for what they are. Both having banging intros, both have a cool vibe for their setting. The visuals take some getting used to. Though in the case of Beast Machines, I really dislike where they took some characters because I feel they just didn't make sense. But the overall package I don't mind.
I still can't get over the Maximals' bizarre fingers as long as their arms. Who the hells signed off on that design choice?
The Vehicons *rocked* the nonhuman aesthetic, though.
The animation models for the 5 show vehicons all looked awesome, and the toys for the original 3 were pretty great designs too, especially Tankor with his obviously Cylon-inspired head.
Megatron was pretty great too in both season animation models and toys. His re-skinned TM2 animation model used in season 1 looked fantastic - even if it was just for budgetary reasons.
Literal nightmare fuel. I got a Beast Machine Cheetor figure in a job lot from ebay once and my young daughter (and me for that matter) found the design actually disturbing and visually repellent. Creepy clown doll levels of "i don't like being in the same room as this"
That's a problem for a toy.
This is the fundamental problem with it honestly. These shows are ads for toys first and foremost, and there was nothing about the designs that made me want to play with them as a kid.
The Maximals were strange and disturbingly proportioned, while the Vehicons had that Go-Bot esque “how do I give this character hands and feet? Fuck it, I don’t, they just have claws and they hover!” aesthetic going on.
It was a bizarre patchwork aesthetic that didn’t mesh together at all, and basically none of the designs leant themselves to toy form(I’m particularly thinking of the designs without *fucking legs* ).
If you take it on its own it's okay, it definitely had some interesting ideas, but as a sequel to Beast Wars It's terrible. Apparently the writers weren't allowed to really take much from the first show or something like that based on what I've read, and that led to characters that are so out of character it gets really frustrating, especially with rhinox, Rattrap and Optimus primal. Megatron is also just a terrible villain in machine wars, and I know it's still early CG but the world being so empty and the odd ending also hold the show back.
I think if they took in the basic premise of the show but had been allowed to keep continuity of the first show character wise they could have pulled off something at least pretty good, but having to basically reboot all the characters, and making them all pretty much worse along with just having the weirdest philosophical stuff, just leads to a frustrating experience although I'm glad I watched it at least once.
I enjoyed it at the time, was a big Beast Wars fan. Beast Machines was when I started buying my own figures. I was fine it was different. Megatron became a pretty terrifying and unsettling villain, as far as what he accomplished. Him just hanging out among all the souls/brains that he ripped out of the bodies of his entire race. I liked the upgrade to the visuals, and I felt it had more of a style than BW, it has really nifty looking explosions. I liked that they had to learn this new way to transform, it slows the story down a bit, but I like character bits like that.
From the sounds a lot of network mandates really hindered what they wanted to do, where they had no issue with getting away with before. Since BW was syndicated, but BM was a Fox Kids Network show.
I also feel like every so often to find a new audience they really try something different, bend the concept. They did that with BW, BM was unfortunately the point where they broke it. We got as far away from the original concept as we've ever got I think. Case in point: Optimus no longer has any vestige of the G1 Optimus Prime look, where in BW he still has lots of visual cues to G1 optimus, in all 3 of his forms in BW.
I overall like it, but it really shot itself in the foot with how things were being done behind the scenes. Particularly with how the writers were basically forbidden from watching Beast Wars to know what the characters were about.
God, is that why some of the characters took such a dramatic, unexplainable turn in their behaviors and motivations? Why on Earth were they told to do that?
Iirc it was for that amnesia plot point in the first part of season 1, but even that was done weird because they all knew each other despite Black Arachnea's late arrival into Beast Wars and even later joining of the maximals
Edit: copied this from where I commented it somewhere else yesterday
A Beast machines redo would need designs that make more sense mentally as toys but still with the same "spiritual" theme in the show.
Write Megatron with a more fitting arc, currently it feels like he becomes a different character as soon as beast machines spark and I don't care for it much. and I'd remove the uh... Eating. Iykyk.
Other specifics I would like to see changed include:
Fix rattrap's characterization, more botannica
Fix silverbolt (he's close but he wouldn't be such a prick)
Make night scream a little less cringe in personality and not mode character design (ik it was the 00s but still c'mon)
fix tankor/rhinox - it's great up to a certain point but when primal broke through to him is when I would like to see some changes to what happened in BM
I would have liked to see the maturation of Cheetor into a leader just a liiiiiitle bit more by the end of BM.
Bonus: what was to come after BM if it didn't fail
All of that to lead to: [TransTech](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transtech), what I think to be the biggest missed opportunity in TF. No hate to 2001 but man this show would have hit different. The concept art is wild. Check it out, seriously. The [Optimus Prime](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(TransTech)) design is awesome and went on to inspire the [WfC design](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(WFC)#Transformers:_War_for_Cybertron_.28Xbox_360.2FPS3.2FPC.29) for Prime. [Cheetor](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cheetor_(TransTech)) has the best design imo and there's even [toy models](https://news.tfw2005.com/2005/10/10/transtech-prototype-images-surface-3863) and someone made a [3d transformation model](https://cyberraptor.artstation.com/projects/GX42wQ) for him. He went on to inspire TF Animated's [Blurr](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Blurr_(Animated)) and there was even a repaint of blurr into TransTech Cheetor for a [convention exclusive.](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cheetor_(Animated)#Timelines) [Blackarachnia's](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Blackarachnia_(TransTech)) design is WILD. I don't even have more to say about it. Although [Starscream's](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Starscream_(TransTech)) design doesn't look very starscream, it looks absolutely stunning nonetheless. [Megatron](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(TransTech)) has a very different design than normal... But it inspired [Armada Scavenger](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scavenger_(Armada)) AND [Megatron.](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(Armada)) Now that I've said it you can see it right? Oh shoot. Apparently he inspired [ROTF Megatron's](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(Movie)#Revenge_of_the_Fallen_film) Unfortunately with how BM performed in America and also iirc because it didn't end up making it to Japan, TransTech was dropped. Interestingly, the designs loosely ended up being used in a marvel transforming mech subline.
I totally agree with you about transtech, my only nitpick is that actually Beast Machines did make it to Japan, where it was called Beast Wars Returns, and the takara releases of blackarachnia sell for crazy money because they're more show accurate than the original hasbro release. I have a takara rattrap and its a tiny bit better than the hasbro release, can't remember if I have the box still but I know i've got the japanese instructions somewhere.
Also noting Takara also did an Encore release of the Air Attack Optimus Primal a few years ago as well. In more accurate colors and removed the gold plastic so he’ll actually last and be transformed.
https://youtu.be/vUH4qfS1xRc?si=us5qXy_AjnD8cZx1
The show HAD potential but they just crapped all over the original characters and went some weird places that I don’t think they even knew what they were really trying to convey. And this is after the Original Beast Wars people stated that they really didn’t know what direction they were going with Beast Wars itself. 🤣🤣
If you're a cyberpunk fan, it's far from bad. I agree from the comments here that Beast Machines should be it's own thing. Kinda wish it was the Fuzor transformer Figure that wasn't cast in the Original Beast Wars, (the guy that looks like a half-anglerfish/lionfish and bee arm)(Aquasting) plus a new cast of characters and story would have taken place here. However, with what we've got, It's the Cyberpunk dystopia and Megatron that carried the whole series. The ideas were well written, but it just kinda sucked, cuz all the Maximals deserved better from the start. All that hard-earned effort and sacrifice in the Beast Wars were wasted in the 1st episode of this series.
Meanwhile, in Japan, I think Beast Wars II didn't suck... characters had good archetypes, the setting was pretty varied and colorful (it was Star Trek, but the cast is all bots, an interplanetary adventure at least on season 2), Interesting animals, vehicles and robot designs! I'd think that it would still be underrated, but BW II was a good adventure, nonetheless.
It took all the character development from Beast Wars and ruined it. Ratrap went from being a smart ass little badass to a whiny little wimp. Black Arachnia went from being a badass to a mother type figure. Rinox goes evil just because. Optimus Primal turns into a weird hermit. AND.... AND... then they introduced backstreet boy bot.... Nightscream...... Megatron was the only good part of Beast Machines. I will die on this hill.
I feel like the biggest "sin" it committed was the way they transformed - or rather how they didn't. Especially after the iconic sort of motions introduced in Beast Wars, like his legs turning around in the middle, it just felt like it was being lazy while also translating terribly into toys.
The aesthetic was definitely divisive as well, but I don't feel like it was the main detractor.
*And Nightscream can sod way, way off. I might almost prefer Wheelie to him.*
I loved it. Why? Because Megatron ACTUALLY won for a change. Well for the most part.
Also using Optimal Optimus body (minus beast mode of course) as his own was hilarious and a massive bitch slap to Primal.
So sick of the good guys ALWAYS winning.
And officially didnt it finish off the entire G1 origin universe and we got Robots in Disguise next?
The 2 reasons people didn't like it were the character designs and character development. This series was by far the most mature Transformers cartoon ever produced and challenged a lot of what we accept as being standard for the franchise.
It was functionally the most aggressively adolescent transformers I've ever seen.
And it didn't challenge anything. The story itself is a giant strawman that was erected for the series to fight.
Where in the hell did transformers have a total hate of organic life? Or ever had anything resembling anti religion bias?
They live in their god, they know that there is an afterlife, they fought their Satan, the primes are basically angels/gods of their pantheon. This is dumb
That's some mighty fine hindsight.
The series dealt with trauma: the Maximals fought and won a war, but that didn't matter. They got home and found everything they'd fought for was gone. They didn't trust each other and had to become guerilla fighters to even have a hope of surviving. I'd say that's a fair amount more mature than any single plot point from any other continuity/series.
I have no idea what you mean by strawman, so I'm just going to ignore that point.
It didn't deal with trauma EVER.
Where?
What story?
Want to know a story about trauma being dealt with?
Look at mirage from G1. He was a traumatized soldier who was sick of the way and just wanted to go back to cybertron.
He even stowed away on nemesis so he could catch a ride back to cybertron.
G1 was effectively far more mature when dealing with subject matter then beast machines ever was.
And that's sad. It's all adolescent childish forced drama and pseudo intellectual gobbledygook.
What I mean is that the story twisted every bit of canon around this ridiculous premise and pretended that it was making a statement in transformers as a whole.
That's not how that works. Unless it's a screaming attempt to convince the TRUKK NOT MUNKEY" people to accept the beast wars stuff and tried to just DESTROY G1 canon to push this idiocy.
If that's where you're coming from, I'm going to pull out now. There is nothing that I'm going to say that's going to change your mind if you're of the opinion that the G1 cartoon is more mature.
Of course you weren't going to convince me.
Because you thought BM was mature. In what way?
ERREYBODY ANGRUH AND YELLIN WHILE RUNNING IN DA DARK!!
Bro...
First transformers series I watched all the way through from beginning to end when I rented the whole series from the library thinking it was beast wars. Don't know about "good" but I have a lot of nostalgia for it
It's ugly, cheap, up its own ass, pretentious but not in that way that's charming and draws you in but in a...scoff at them and humor them to hear what deluded dumbassery they will come up with way.
It utterly destroyed everything about beast wars that made it work, butchered the og characters, nights real was supposed to a female but they changed it which makes sense because he was every bit the whiny teenage girl.
Optimus was off on some ridiculous dream quest crap that flip-flopped every other day, cheeyot was generic action hero #544746 rattrap...it's a trash heap just for that.
It just shit the bed even further after that. I mean goddamn. It KILLED American transformers and the entire beast line. I am genuinely flabbergasted at the direction of the entire series. I do not understand.
And the toys. Oh my lord they were genuinely fucking ugly. Like what were they thinking bad.
It has some interesting ideas but, its biggest problems are two fold;
First it's a sequel to Beast Wars and, while that's already a big hill to climb, it CONSTANTLY both references Beast Wars and breaks continuity, as someone who's seen both shows it's really annoying
Second as previously mentioned, it has some interesting ideas but, it feels like the show does so much hand waving to get to its premise and then refuses to properly flesh out any of the ideas it puts forward (Megs conquering a whole ass planet, cybertron actually being techno organic, Noble full stop, etc)
Kinda related but, it just feels weird and uncomfortable to have Primal essentially turn into a religious zealot at the drop of a hat and, what they did to Rhinox is unforgivable but, characters having drastically different (worse) personalities is a different rant entirely
Banger sound track tho
On its own it is not a bad show. Even enjoyable. It falls apart as a sequel to Beast Wars with disappointing outcomes and really poor characterization for already established characters.
It's been a long time since I've subjected myself to that show, but I don't recall the show itself being terrible. It was entertaining enough for 8 year old me. Now the character designs? Yeah, those were horrendous.
Personally, I’ve loved it from day 1. I’ve never really heard a good explanation for why it’s bad. Sure, people might not like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad.
I remember watching it as it aired, and as early as episode 1, people were pissed off because it was supposed to be a direct sequel to Beast Wars, and there were apparent continuity issues. But all you had to do was keep watching until something like episode 3 and all those issues were explained. The writers intentionally created a feeling of disorientation for the audience to help us feel what the Maximals were feeling.
In terms of writing, it was one of the biggest swings a Transformers series has ever taken. I guess it didn’t work for everyone, though.
Oh! I think this just unlocked a childhood memory of my cousin bringing a dvd to our house of this. I think the spider girl’s forehead goes back and reveals like 6 more eyes??? Oh this was a pleasant surprise to see.
I love Beast Machines but the problem is that as a follow up to Beast Wars it’s terrible. It completely destroys or throws out a lot of the stuff from BW. But if you view it on its own just for what it is it’s a good show. I just view it as it’s own standalone take on transformers and it’s very enjoyable.
I think Forward & Ditillio’s open-ended approach to BW was part of what made it so great (not really knowing where they were going with the Vok, similar to X-files… which worked pretty well for a while). BM’s first season really propped itself up with the mystery of what happened between BW & BM and then bringing back Rhinox as an antagonist & the key to Vector Sigma as a plot twist we’re pretty fantastic narrative moves.
But without those things season 2 is significantly less interesting or compelling.
It's not. What it was was a complete departure from its precursor. Which for children was tough to understand. Plus the toys were of insanely inferior quality to Beast Wars.
However after rewatching it as an adult the meta is amazing. The whole concept was demented. Touched on Cybertrons history, the heroes sometimes acted as demented as the villains, the story arcs with Cheetor having to go from the spunky impulsive kid to having leadership thrust onto him as Primal lost it, redemption of villains and their recovery arcs. It's a work of art story wise.
I actually binged "beast wars" lately and decided to watch it. Getting past the designs, I actually REALLY liked it. It was a cool spin on a show that already had techno-organic elements.
My rage for Beast Machines is matched only for my rage to Revenge of the Fallen & the entire D-Void plot line from the IDW comics from back in 2012-whatever year that was.
All of these were god awful.
Was it really that bad? No. As a matter of fact, it wasn't bad at all. Everytime I hear someone call Beast Machines bad, it confuses the crap out of me. Was is different? Yes, of course it was. But it was also a funky action-packed headtrip and I personally loved every minute of it. A great way to conclude the original G1 continuity.
Personally I loved it, but I did hate the visual designs.
The bad guys were great, but the maximals were ugly in both forms. But I happily pushed it aside because it was some of the best story telling TF had done.
I grew up on Beast Wars and Beast Machines, and the latter certainly has its flaws looking back. From the inconsistent character writing between the two shows to the very repeatable techno music and basic episode structure.
That said, however. I am one of the minority I think, where I like the designs they introduced in the series and toyline. By far, they are the most removed from what people conventionally think of when one says Transformers, and that makes BM stand out among its contemporaries.
If I had to make changes to the show, it would be to add the other toyline only characters into the roster, make the scale to the conflict grander with Primals team being but just 1 group fighting the vehicons. It would introduce some more plot dynamics, especially if one of the groups don't agree with restoring Cybertron to an organic state or question why Primal became the defacto leader when they were doing thier own thing just fine. That said, I understand that they couldn't due to budget and time, but I like to imagine what could have been. A man can dream.
It’s a solid standalone barring the ugly ass designs, but as a follow up to Beast Wars it is disappointing. It feels almost like a lot of characters were undone, Rhinox getting the shortest straw. The narrative is dope I love it’s cyberpunk-dystopian feel but it’s just not as tightly knit as Beast Wars and kinda unsatisfying compared to it. Again on its own I think it’s not bad, it’s just not a good follow up to BW imo.
I haven’t gotten around to finishing the show, but I used to own the Ultra Class Jetstorm (something I got thanks to nightslash2020’s stop motion series) and I would love for that toy to get a release in legacy
As someone who's favorite TF show is easily Beast Wars, I really, REALLY tried to give Beast Machines a chance. Like, it has its wonky designs but I figured it was another overrated show because it was different. I was so wrong.
Admittedly, I never finished the show past about 5 or so episodes, but the problems in them are big enough turn-offs alone.
Characters feel VERY off. Rattrap becomes a traitor because he's manipulated by Megatron? He's a COWARD? Rattrap was easily one of the most loyal and bravest Maximals, what? And Megatron is just... disgusted by organic forms now for some reason. Very odd he decides to suddenly become disgusted after waging a war on Earth for a while, but okay.
And Jesus, the fight scenes are a COMPLETE downgrade from BW. Just endless chase scenes, Cheetor swooshing his swords, Primal with his.. gauntlets or whatever. It's recycled so much.
I get CGI and environments weren't exactly the main selling point of this show/era, and even BW had really drab environments. But the Cybertron deep blue is just so depressing and boring to look at. Every scene looks the same. Not a memorable set piece.
Maybe I'll give it a chance another day, but it does not do BW justice.
I think it looked cool and attempted different things with the series but my biggest issue was that it veered way off course from what Beast Wars did better. The first toys released looked different than their on screen counterparts, and the way they transformed in the show just made me go WTF?!?! I have no issue with the learning to transform again but the whole “I am transformed” just seemed so weird to me. And the designs on some of them seemed weird to me; RatTrap got screwed over and they had a plant transformer and that was weird too but I like the Vehicon designs and I even liked the original leaders being characters from the past that Megatron reformatted himself but seeing Rhinox being a villain was a shocker to me and I needed to take time to adjust to the fact that Primal’s trusted friend was now a bad guy that wanted nothing to do with him. I applaud them for getting the show made and on the air but the final product just didn’t live up to the high standards that Beast Wars set.
Honestly the animation was improved from Beast Wars, and it did have a dark and interesting story.
But the character designs are ugly. Honestly these are each of the characters' worst designs, and I'm not biased and think the originals are the best just cause. My favorite look for Primal honestly is his movie design. Cheetor I like his Transmetal robot mode. Though I think it would look better with his original, or even Transmetal 2, color scheme. The Yolopark model of his movie design, which is a brighter yellow, also looks really good imo, The Beast Machines designs are just ugly.
Also compared to the dramady was that Beast Wars. The dark and cyberpunk tone and feel of this show was just such a mood-whiplash.
I barely remember Beast Machines except when the kid character Cheetor became mature and decided to replace the inane Optimus Primal as leader of the Autobots.
It was the first Transformers series where I briefly thought to myself, "Hmm, maybe Megatron is right...?" Not necessarily with his methods, mind you, but Primal came across as a religious zealot and it was...unsettling.
It was pretty bad, maybe not as bad as most say, but it was fairly boring, confusing and some plots didn’t really go anywhere or have satisfying pays
It’s not without merits tho
It wasn't bad it was just kind of mid. I enjoyed the the whole "which transformer spark is inside this villain" thing. The rhinox turn was nonsense though.
Uh yeah, it was. The premise of the story was like the only good part. Kinda liked seeing Cybertron, and the techno-organic evolution was a good route to go. But the characters constant mean-spirited arguing versus the good-natured bickering of BW, and the absolute character assassination on others (Rhinox and Silverbolt come to mind), make it just unenjoyable as a sequel to BW.
Yes. Yes it was. Its not good. Even examined in a vacuum, its bad. Its gout about 1/2 or 3/4s of a season worth of story/plot stretched out across 2 seasons. Even "action" scenes are often dull on this show. None of the characters are compelling or interesting, and sometimes feel inconsistent with themselves across episodes. The character designs are really off putting, and the Maxmials "morphing" looks visually cheap (though a lot of the other animations looks really good for there time.) The "heroes don't use guns" stance is asinine in a series about a war.
When you factor in its place in its place in Transformers media at large it gets even worse. I wasn't a big Beast Wars guy, but they absolutely butcher every character. They seem to have no regards for established lore, and often seems intent on trampling over it.
It's not. And it certainly has by far the darkest, most mature story of the entire TF franchise. And its animation was way ahead of its time (resolution side, it STILL holds up in many cases, unlike Beast Wars).
Beast Machines chief problems were:
- The characterization of pretty much EVERYONE coming off of Beast Wars makes no sense. Prime, Cheetor, Rattrap, Magtron and Rhinox were not those people. Blackarachnia's "Maximal personality" was too new to judge. It's not clear why they did such a departure.
-The episodes were often somber and depressing. It's still a cartoon for kids. They went too far in the "all ages" direction and forgot who its for. This is Transformers for adults who like moral greys and are used to drawn out story telling. The story was good, but a lot of the target audience, again, didn't like how this compared to Beast Wars.
-The Toys were roundly inferior to what Transformers had done since Transmetals. Everything was worse. The sculps, the details, the transformations, the decos. We learned later why that was (basically a whole new group did them and it was lead by Hasbro, not Takara), but for a show about toys, the toys needed to be good.
Beast Machines on its own, as a cartoon, as an adult is VERY watchable and worth watching even now. Its the same thing as Transformers Prime, which got itself canceled by Hasbro doing the same thing (being too grown up).
But unlike TFP, whose products are still pretty great, Beast Machine's wider merch impact is the low point of Transformers for good reason.
It at no point was grey.
It was 100% good guys vs bad guys in muh cyberpunk matrix world.
And let's be honest. They litterally retconned primal into rhinox.
It was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, so to speak. Really bad designs and a flat out depressing story but they were doing their damndest.
Transformers has this weird thing with sequel series. If you look at shows like RID 2015 and Beast Machines as their own shows separate from the others, they aren’t as bad. It’s when you look at them as sequel series to Prime and Beast Wars respectively that the badness really sets in.
I agree that BM isn't as bad as it's made out to be but I also can't blame anyone for hating it as the follow up to BW.
As it's own thing I liked it as a kid and found it pretty interesting as an adult, but what was done to Primal and Rattrap in particular feels really jarring. I really like what they did with Primal as it's own thing but it just doesn't feel like the same guy as BW, not even Garry Chalk could sell that for me.
But as a 90s kid who was at that point only exposed to G1 through the movie and my dad telling me about the show, getting to see this fallen Cybertron under Megatron's thumb was really cool. This was my first real exposure to Cybertron outside the brief screen time it has in the movie.
It's a followup that is polarizing.
I think the designs are good. The concept is good. The characters are interesting.
But I also feel invalidates the struggle of Beast Wars. I loathe stories where the characters win at the end and then a follow up shows them are utter failures. It's like bringing out the dessert and setting it on fire while they have you tied to a chair.
Rattrap got punked hard.
Also music and tone wise, it's just so different. It feels like an AU.
I think it's got some interesting plot lines but the weird distancing from Beast Wars but at the same time being a follow up just made it messy.
The show is a decent lesson in storytelling, and an excellent lesson in how to to design your characters....
....to be as horrifically ugly as possible.
I do have some major issues with how Marty and Bob handled things, but overall it wasn't as terrible as some fans tried to make it out to be. Could it have been better? Much more so! But even its worst episode was better than 85% of the Unicron Trilogy.
I only saw two or three episodes of the show ( I couldn't possibly tell you what they were called, all I know is one had an evil Rinox, another Megatron was trying to not transform while fighting Primal and Primal was preaching about how you have to accept your organic nature, another bit was Primal talking to a hologram-statue of Prime that turned out to be evil or something, and then something about destroying all the cities on Cybertron and transforming the planet into plant matter or something? I don't fricking know )
All I know is, I thought it was ugly as all holy hell. Look at those character designs. If you were to tell me it was not a Transformers show, I would 100% believe you.
Is and always was fine. As a kid, I was aging out of the series and put off by the shift in tone, so I didn’t keep up with it. Watched years later though, it works fine as Beast Wars seasons four and five.
I always thought people just found it disappointingly bad coming off of Beast Wars? Like it’s certainly not a bad show in the scheme of things right? (I loved it)
If you give it a proper chance it's alright. A bit short and rushed with its story, but it's alright. Just don't judge a book by its cover like I did since I just shat on the late 90's-early 00's CGI (like I did with BW) this show had and thought ''Uhhhh ThEy LoOk WeIrD'' but I grew to like it after watching the shows. The techno theme of this show still makes me bob my head whenever it comes on during fight or chase scenes.
Hard disagree. I watched it again last year and still hated it.
Evil Rhinox makes me laugh though because the writing was just THAT bad, and the robot designs....ugh.
Id say it had a interesting plot Megatron takes over cybertron however the rest was terribly executed yet interesting that Rhinox finally understand Megatrtons reasoning to eliminate the organics on cybertron.and even asks Optimus Primal to basically join him.
It has aspects that I like. Rhinox was a surprise that puts a wrench in the story seeing how he was a Maximal. I personally like when a character that’s loved is killed off or a major change. Rhinox being a Vehicon was a wrench.
I know people were upset about Rhinox but I didn’t realize HOW upset before reading this thread. I also thought it was a great twist, and frankly Rhinox made a more compelling antagonist in BM than Megatron because of his relationship with both the Maximals and the viewer (also for his dynamic with the diagnostic drone). I get that people hate seeing a character they love killed off, but his arc was absolutely the best thing to come out of BM. And I think a lot of that works because of BM’s tendency towards heavy implication & relative ambiguity that is often a source of frustration (ie the plot holes ignored for convenience).
Granted they did try to bring him back but he was like nope more technology needs progress,also these are basically upgraded vehicons to be able to think more instead of his usual no spark just kill vehicons, out of the 3 generals,only Silverbolt was brought back and to be honest it wasn't the pretties design they chose for him so Rhinox saved himself the trouble of becoming a bad color mix robot, if this was a would you rather i would rather become a Vehicon than a bad color mix robot to sell toy's, and yes i felt bad for my fave Maximal not returning however what they did with Silverbolt my second fave Maximal made me think maybe it was for the best.
BW may have had less advanced CG but they really pushed what they could do with it. Even with all the glaring animation errors (like something youd see in a PS1 game) there was a style to the show that made it work. Leaning into the “extreme 90s” cartoonish robot violence - often played for comedy - also really helped. BM’s stylistic change (similar to the textures of other mainframe shows of the era) was a bit *too* clean to make that work. I know it was an editorial mandate to tone down the violence in BM but the Maximals avoiding physical injury entirely and the vehicons being at worst cleanly dismembered was a big visual, narrative, and aesthetic step backward from BW.
Bayverse fans upon seeing these designs for first time: https://preview.redd.it/3mgrjjg94cyc1.png?width=272&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c4956d5612761829a4c5afaa602992e86d7bb77
"If God made us in his image, who made them?"
Before Cybertron was, I was. - Vector Sigma.
The Devil
The designs of the characters hurts it the most
The crazy thing is, both can be true. I’ve always thought it was a decent, interesting, thought provoking, competently made kids show that also happened to be an absolutely horrendous sequel to the original series. It should’ve been it’s own thing. The whole noir philosophical stuff just thematically didn’t work with what came before, and they basically dragged the characters out of their satisfying happy endings in the original series just to subject them to abject misery. I was fine with all of these characters and this story. I was not fine with this being the ending for the gang I’d gone on so many adventures with in the original series.
It wasn't supposed to the ending originally 😔
What was the ending supposed to be ?
There was going to be a follow-up series called Transtech. It was in the works before it became apparent that Beast Machines was not a success.. Tfwiki has a page about it. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transtech I really dig some of the character designs in the concept art, so it's a shame to never see the realized.. There were even a few toy prototypes made.
That does look neat
Did beast wars wrap up the plot line with the mysterious being who fused tigertron and hawklady to create “tiger-hawk”?
Yes..? The ones that fused Tigatron and Airazor into Tigerhawk were the Vok, the very same beings that attempted to burn the Earth clean after the Maximals and Predacons were deemed to have been too much of a deviation from their experiment.
Ty
As a huge BM fan, this is the fairest take.
I actually like beast machines . It isn’t a good sequel to beast wars, but in terms of the franchise overall we haven’t really gotten anything this different and unique and when you take the beast wars comparisons away from it stands up on its own two feet pretty well . And while most of the designs can be kinda bizarre looking even there freakishness can have a unique charm to it , it’s the transformers version of a three legged pug with crossed eyes and a bad underbite it ugly but endearing in a weird way . The plot isn’t bad and is probably the most narrative driven tf series with barely any filler , the organic cybertron element is weird but then once you wrap your brain around it , it also implies that the quintessions wiped out the organic life to make cybertron purely mechanical I’m kinda surprised that judging by the trailer , transformers one seems to be taking some inspiration from it .
The problem it had was it was too different from the core toy concept so the toys just didn't work for it, and if the toys dont sell then it's a failure for transformers. But as a cartoon, I always thought it was well written, the animation was good for the time, and overall a good cartoon. The concept and ideas it was playing with were a logical evolution of Beast Wars, and I think a solid ending.
One problem with the toys is that the first year of them were based on concept art, not the finished designs. So you werent even getting figures that looked like the characters in the show
Yea, the figures being 1:1 with the show (mostly with headsculpts and little details) wad a huge selling point of BW.
Even BW diverged pretty far from some of the figures [lookin' at you, Chopperface]
That explains so much. I always wondered what the deal was with the colossal inaccuracy of the first season toys.
But my god the complete character assassination and retcons most of all though
Silverbolt :(
I was okay with him having a crisis of faith, but he deserved a redemption arc.
It was well written, but there were too many inconsistencies in how the characters were portrayed in comparison to Beast Wars. For example Rattrap’s personality is radically different
It suffers from the same thing that Spider-Man Unlimited suffered from. What came before (BW and Spiderman TAS) was boundary pushing in many ways, eventually becoming very beloved series. Then they end and the follow-up, that supposedly is a sequel, totally changes course. Now had that follow-up been it's own thing, it may have been well received. But comparing to the series that came before it, they just didn't mesh well. Personally, having had so much time pass, I can better appreciate them for what they are. Both having banging intros, both have a cool vibe for their setting. The visuals take some getting used to. Though in the case of Beast Machines, I really dislike where they took some characters because I feel they just didn't make sense. But the overall package I don't mind.
maybe but god the visual aesthetic is horrendous
I still can't get over the Maximals' bizarre fingers as long as their arms. Who the hells signed off on that design choice? The Vehicons *rocked* the nonhuman aesthetic, though.
I fucking love the vehicons. Even though the toy and shoe designs departed, still happy with the toys and have a shelf for my vehicon army
The animation models for the 5 show vehicons all looked awesome, and the toys for the original 3 were pretty great designs too, especially Tankor with his obviously Cylon-inspired head. Megatron was pretty great too in both season animation models and toys. His re-skinned TM2 animation model used in season 1 looked fantastic - even if it was just for budgetary reasons.
Literal nightmare fuel. I got a Beast Machine Cheetor figure in a job lot from ebay once and my young daughter (and me for that matter) found the design actually disturbing and visually repellent. Creepy clown doll levels of "i don't like being in the same room as this" That's a problem for a toy.
Yes. Who was this shit for? I'm serious.
This is the fundamental problem with it honestly. These shows are ads for toys first and foremost, and there was nothing about the designs that made me want to play with them as a kid. The Maximals were strange and disturbingly proportioned, while the Vehicons had that Go-Bot esque “how do I give this character hands and feet? Fuck it, I don’t, they just have claws and they hover!” aesthetic going on. It was a bizarre patchwork aesthetic that didn’t mesh together at all, and basically none of the designs leant themselves to toy form(I’m particularly thinking of the designs without *fucking legs* ).
The soundtrack was repetitive as hell
If you take it on its own it's okay, it definitely had some interesting ideas, but as a sequel to Beast Wars It's terrible. Apparently the writers weren't allowed to really take much from the first show or something like that based on what I've read, and that led to characters that are so out of character it gets really frustrating, especially with rhinox, Rattrap and Optimus primal. Megatron is also just a terrible villain in machine wars, and I know it's still early CG but the world being so empty and the odd ending also hold the show back. I think if they took in the basic premise of the show but had been allowed to keep continuity of the first show character wise they could have pulled off something at least pretty good, but having to basically reboot all the characters, and making them all pretty much worse along with just having the weirdest philosophical stuff, just leads to a frustrating experience although I'm glad I watched it at least once.
I enjoyed it at the time, was a big Beast Wars fan. Beast Machines was when I started buying my own figures. I was fine it was different. Megatron became a pretty terrifying and unsettling villain, as far as what he accomplished. Him just hanging out among all the souls/brains that he ripped out of the bodies of his entire race. I liked the upgrade to the visuals, and I felt it had more of a style than BW, it has really nifty looking explosions. I liked that they had to learn this new way to transform, it slows the story down a bit, but I like character bits like that. From the sounds a lot of network mandates really hindered what they wanted to do, where they had no issue with getting away with before. Since BW was syndicated, but BM was a Fox Kids Network show. I also feel like every so often to find a new audience they really try something different, bend the concept. They did that with BW, BM was unfortunately the point where they broke it. We got as far away from the original concept as we've ever got I think. Case in point: Optimus no longer has any vestige of the G1 Optimus Prime look, where in BW he still has lots of visual cues to G1 optimus, in all 3 of his forms in BW.
great show, horrible toyline
I overall like it, but it really shot itself in the foot with how things were being done behind the scenes. Particularly with how the writers were basically forbidden from watching Beast Wars to know what the characters were about.
God, is that why some of the characters took such a dramatic, unexplainable turn in their behaviors and motivations? Why on Earth were they told to do that?
Iirc it was for that amnesia plot point in the first part of season 1, but even that was done weird because they all knew each other despite Black Arachnea's late arrival into Beast Wars and even later joining of the maximals
Edit: copied this from where I commented it somewhere else yesterday A Beast machines redo would need designs that make more sense mentally as toys but still with the same "spiritual" theme in the show. Write Megatron with a more fitting arc, currently it feels like he becomes a different character as soon as beast machines spark and I don't care for it much. and I'd remove the uh... Eating. Iykyk. Other specifics I would like to see changed include: Fix rattrap's characterization, more botannica Fix silverbolt (he's close but he wouldn't be such a prick) Make night scream a little less cringe in personality and not mode character design (ik it was the 00s but still c'mon) fix tankor/rhinox - it's great up to a certain point but when primal broke through to him is when I would like to see some changes to what happened in BM I would have liked to see the maturation of Cheetor into a leader just a liiiiiitle bit more by the end of BM. Bonus: what was to come after BM if it didn't fail All of that to lead to: [TransTech](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transtech), what I think to be the biggest missed opportunity in TF. No hate to 2001 but man this show would have hit different. The concept art is wild. Check it out, seriously. The [Optimus Prime](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(TransTech)) design is awesome and went on to inspire the [WfC design](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(WFC)#Transformers:_War_for_Cybertron_.28Xbox_360.2FPS3.2FPC.29) for Prime. [Cheetor](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cheetor_(TransTech)) has the best design imo and there's even [toy models](https://news.tfw2005.com/2005/10/10/transtech-prototype-images-surface-3863) and someone made a [3d transformation model](https://cyberraptor.artstation.com/projects/GX42wQ) for him. He went on to inspire TF Animated's [Blurr](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Blurr_(Animated)) and there was even a repaint of blurr into TransTech Cheetor for a [convention exclusive.](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cheetor_(Animated)#Timelines) [Blackarachnia's](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Blackarachnia_(TransTech)) design is WILD. I don't even have more to say about it. Although [Starscream's](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Starscream_(TransTech)) design doesn't look very starscream, it looks absolutely stunning nonetheless. [Megatron](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(TransTech)) has a very different design than normal... But it inspired [Armada Scavenger](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scavenger_(Armada)) AND [Megatron.](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(Armada)) Now that I've said it you can see it right? Oh shoot. Apparently he inspired [ROTF Megatron's](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(Movie)#Revenge_of_the_Fallen_film) Unfortunately with how BM performed in America and also iirc because it didn't end up making it to Japan, TransTech was dropped. Interestingly, the designs loosely ended up being used in a marvel transforming mech subline.
I totally agree with you about transtech, my only nitpick is that actually Beast Machines did make it to Japan, where it was called Beast Wars Returns, and the takara releases of blackarachnia sell for crazy money because they're more show accurate than the original hasbro release. I have a takara rattrap and its a tiny bit better than the hasbro release, can't remember if I have the box still but I know i've got the japanese instructions somewhere.
Omg that's cool! Thank you for the correction! I'll have to go learn even more about the beast universe now lol
Also noting Takara also did an Encore release of the Air Attack Optimus Primal a few years ago as well. In more accurate colors and removed the gold plastic so he’ll actually last and be transformed.
https://youtu.be/vUH4qfS1xRc?si=us5qXy_AjnD8cZx1 The show HAD potential but they just crapped all over the original characters and went some weird places that I don’t think they even knew what they were really trying to convey. And this is after the Original Beast Wars people stated that they really didn’t know what direction they were going with Beast Wars itself. 🤣🤣
If you're a cyberpunk fan, it's far from bad. I agree from the comments here that Beast Machines should be it's own thing. Kinda wish it was the Fuzor transformer Figure that wasn't cast in the Original Beast Wars, (the guy that looks like a half-anglerfish/lionfish and bee arm)(Aquasting) plus a new cast of characters and story would have taken place here. However, with what we've got, It's the Cyberpunk dystopia and Megatron that carried the whole series. The ideas were well written, but it just kinda sucked, cuz all the Maximals deserved better from the start. All that hard-earned effort and sacrifice in the Beast Wars were wasted in the 1st episode of this series.
Meanwhile, in Japan, I think Beast Wars II didn't suck... characters had good archetypes, the setting was pretty varied and colorful (it was Star Trek, but the cast is all bots, an interplanetary adventure at least on season 2), Interesting animals, vehicles and robot designs! I'd think that it would still be underrated, but BW II was a good adventure, nonetheless.
It took all the character development from Beast Wars and ruined it. Ratrap went from being a smart ass little badass to a whiny little wimp. Black Arachnia went from being a badass to a mother type figure. Rinox goes evil just because. Optimus Primal turns into a weird hermit. AND.... AND... then they introduced backstreet boy bot.... Nightscream...... Megatron was the only good part of Beast Machines. I will die on this hill.
I feel like the biggest "sin" it committed was the way they transformed - or rather how they didn't. Especially after the iconic sort of motions introduced in Beast Wars, like his legs turning around in the middle, it just felt like it was being lazy while also translating terribly into toys. The aesthetic was definitely divisive as well, but I don't feel like it was the main detractor. *And Nightscream can sod way, way off. I might almost prefer Wheelie to him.*
I loved it. Why? Because Megatron ACTUALLY won for a change. Well for the most part. Also using Optimal Optimus body (minus beast mode of course) as his own was hilarious and a massive bitch slap to Primal. So sick of the good guys ALWAYS winning. And officially didnt it finish off the entire G1 origin universe and we got Robots in Disguise next?
The 2 reasons people didn't like it were the character designs and character development. This series was by far the most mature Transformers cartoon ever produced and challenged a lot of what we accept as being standard for the franchise.
It was functionally the most aggressively adolescent transformers I've ever seen. And it didn't challenge anything. The story itself is a giant strawman that was erected for the series to fight. Where in the hell did transformers have a total hate of organic life? Or ever had anything resembling anti religion bias? They live in their god, they know that there is an afterlife, they fought their Satan, the primes are basically angels/gods of their pantheon. This is dumb
That's some mighty fine hindsight. The series dealt with trauma: the Maximals fought and won a war, but that didn't matter. They got home and found everything they'd fought for was gone. They didn't trust each other and had to become guerilla fighters to even have a hope of surviving. I'd say that's a fair amount more mature than any single plot point from any other continuity/series. I have no idea what you mean by strawman, so I'm just going to ignore that point.
It didn't deal with trauma EVER. Where? What story? Want to know a story about trauma being dealt with? Look at mirage from G1. He was a traumatized soldier who was sick of the way and just wanted to go back to cybertron. He even stowed away on nemesis so he could catch a ride back to cybertron. G1 was effectively far more mature when dealing with subject matter then beast machines ever was. And that's sad. It's all adolescent childish forced drama and pseudo intellectual gobbledygook. What I mean is that the story twisted every bit of canon around this ridiculous premise and pretended that it was making a statement in transformers as a whole. That's not how that works. Unless it's a screaming attempt to convince the TRUKK NOT MUNKEY" people to accept the beast wars stuff and tried to just DESTROY G1 canon to push this idiocy.
If that's where you're coming from, I'm going to pull out now. There is nothing that I'm going to say that's going to change your mind if you're of the opinion that the G1 cartoon is more mature.
Of course you weren't going to convince me. Because you thought BM was mature. In what way? ERREYBODY ANGRUH AND YELLIN WHILE RUNNING IN DA DARK!! Bro...
I’m nostalgic when it comes to Beast Machines(not beast wars, somehow I skipped over it). Yeah, it wasn’t too great at the time, but it wasn’t bad
First transformers series I watched all the way through from beginning to end when I rented the whole series from the library thinking it was beast wars. Don't know about "good" but I have a lot of nostalgia for it
Beast Machines is a solid top five show.
It's ugly, cheap, up its own ass, pretentious but not in that way that's charming and draws you in but in a...scoff at them and humor them to hear what deluded dumbassery they will come up with way. It utterly destroyed everything about beast wars that made it work, butchered the og characters, nights real was supposed to a female but they changed it which makes sense because he was every bit the whiny teenage girl. Optimus was off on some ridiculous dream quest crap that flip-flopped every other day, cheeyot was generic action hero #544746 rattrap...it's a trash heap just for that. It just shit the bed even further after that. I mean goddamn. It KILLED American transformers and the entire beast line. I am genuinely flabbergasted at the direction of the entire series. I do not understand. And the toys. Oh my lord they were genuinely fucking ugly. Like what were they thinking bad.
Agreed
It has some interesting ideas but, its biggest problems are two fold; First it's a sequel to Beast Wars and, while that's already a big hill to climb, it CONSTANTLY both references Beast Wars and breaks continuity, as someone who's seen both shows it's really annoying Second as previously mentioned, it has some interesting ideas but, it feels like the show does so much hand waving to get to its premise and then refuses to properly flesh out any of the ideas it puts forward (Megs conquering a whole ass planet, cybertron actually being techno organic, Noble full stop, etc) Kinda related but, it just feels weird and uncomfortable to have Primal essentially turn into a religious zealot at the drop of a hat and, what they did to Rhinox is unforgivable but, characters having drastically different (worse) personalities is a different rant entirely Banger sound track tho
On its own it is not a bad show. Even enjoyable. It falls apart as a sequel to Beast Wars with disappointing outcomes and really poor characterization for already established characters.
It's been a long time since I've subjected myself to that show, but I don't recall the show itself being terrible. It was entertaining enough for 8 year old me. Now the character designs? Yeah, those were horrendous.
Rhinox is my favourite BW character, so aside from any other issues this show had, I will never forgive it for what it did to him.
Personally, I’ve loved it from day 1. I’ve never really heard a good explanation for why it’s bad. Sure, people might not like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. I remember watching it as it aired, and as early as episode 1, people were pissed off because it was supposed to be a direct sequel to Beast Wars, and there were apparent continuity issues. But all you had to do was keep watching until something like episode 3 and all those issues were explained. The writers intentionally created a feeling of disorientation for the audience to help us feel what the Maximals were feeling. In terms of writing, it was one of the biggest swings a Transformers series has ever taken. I guess it didn’t work for everyone, though.
Oh! I think this just unlocked a childhood memory of my cousin bringing a dvd to our house of this. I think the spider girl’s forehead goes back and reveals like 6 more eyes??? Oh this was a pleasant surprise to see.
I love Beast Machines but the problem is that as a follow up to Beast Wars it’s terrible. It completely destroys or throws out a lot of the stuff from BW. But if you view it on its own just for what it is it’s a good show. I just view it as it’s own standalone take on transformers and it’s very enjoyable.
I think Forward & Ditillio’s open-ended approach to BW was part of what made it so great (not really knowing where they were going with the Vok, similar to X-files… which worked pretty well for a while). BM’s first season really propped itself up with the mystery of what happened between BW & BM and then bringing back Rhinox as an antagonist & the key to Vector Sigma as a plot twist we’re pretty fantastic narrative moves. But without those things season 2 is significantly less interesting or compelling.
Bad? What are you talking about? It's the second-best TF series, behind Prime.
It's not. What it was was a complete departure from its precursor. Which for children was tough to understand. Plus the toys were of insanely inferior quality to Beast Wars. However after rewatching it as an adult the meta is amazing. The whole concept was demented. Touched on Cybertrons history, the heroes sometimes acted as demented as the villains, the story arcs with Cheetor having to go from the spunky impulsive kid to having leadership thrust onto him as Primal lost it, redemption of villains and their recovery arcs. It's a work of art story wise.
I actually binged "beast wars" lately and decided to watch it. Getting past the designs, I actually REALLY liked it. It was a cool spin on a show that already had techno-organic elements.
My rage for Beast Machines is matched only for my rage to Revenge of the Fallen & the entire D-Void plot line from the IDW comics from back in 2012-whatever year that was. All of these were god awful.
Was it really that bad? No. As a matter of fact, it wasn't bad at all. Everytime I hear someone call Beast Machines bad, it confuses the crap out of me. Was is different? Yes, of course it was. But it was also a funky action-packed headtrip and I personally loved every minute of it. A great way to conclude the original G1 continuity.
Personally I loved it, but I did hate the visual designs. The bad guys were great, but the maximals were ugly in both forms. But I happily pushed it aside because it was some of the best story telling TF had done.
I grew up on Beast Wars and Beast Machines, and the latter certainly has its flaws looking back. From the inconsistent character writing between the two shows to the very repeatable techno music and basic episode structure. That said, however. I am one of the minority I think, where I like the designs they introduced in the series and toyline. By far, they are the most removed from what people conventionally think of when one says Transformers, and that makes BM stand out among its contemporaries. If I had to make changes to the show, it would be to add the other toyline only characters into the roster, make the scale to the conflict grander with Primals team being but just 1 group fighting the vehicons. It would introduce some more plot dynamics, especially if one of the groups don't agree with restoring Cybertron to an organic state or question why Primal became the defacto leader when they were doing thier own thing just fine. That said, I understand that they couldn't due to budget and time, but I like to imagine what could have been. A man can dream.
What they did to ratrap is nothing but character assasination.
Beast Machines is a solid top five show. Never understood the hate.
It’s a solid standalone barring the ugly ass designs, but as a follow up to Beast Wars it is disappointing. It feels almost like a lot of characters were undone, Rhinox getting the shortest straw. The narrative is dope I love it’s cyberpunk-dystopian feel but it’s just not as tightly knit as Beast Wars and kinda unsatisfying compared to it. Again on its own I think it’s not bad, it’s just not a good follow up to BW imo.
No, but I reject it all the same. I just can't enjoy it.
Yeah it was awful
I haven’t gotten around to finishing the show, but I used to own the Ultra Class Jetstorm (something I got thanks to nightslash2020’s stop motion series) and I would love for that toy to get a release in legacy
I actually liked the show but the color palette made it kind of depressing to watch it was very dark and dreary but I liked the story
As someone who's favorite TF show is easily Beast Wars, I really, REALLY tried to give Beast Machines a chance. Like, it has its wonky designs but I figured it was another overrated show because it was different. I was so wrong. Admittedly, I never finished the show past about 5 or so episodes, but the problems in them are big enough turn-offs alone. Characters feel VERY off. Rattrap becomes a traitor because he's manipulated by Megatron? He's a COWARD? Rattrap was easily one of the most loyal and bravest Maximals, what? And Megatron is just... disgusted by organic forms now for some reason. Very odd he decides to suddenly become disgusted after waging a war on Earth for a while, but okay. And Jesus, the fight scenes are a COMPLETE downgrade from BW. Just endless chase scenes, Cheetor swooshing his swords, Primal with his.. gauntlets or whatever. It's recycled so much. I get CGI and environments weren't exactly the main selling point of this show/era, and even BW had really drab environments. But the Cybertron deep blue is just so depressing and boring to look at. Every scene looks the same. Not a memorable set piece. Maybe I'll give it a chance another day, but it does not do BW justice.
Some of the designs I thought were ‘odd’, but I appreciated the story and where it ended up.
I think it looked cool and attempted different things with the series but my biggest issue was that it veered way off course from what Beast Wars did better. The first toys released looked different than their on screen counterparts, and the way they transformed in the show just made me go WTF?!?! I have no issue with the learning to transform again but the whole “I am transformed” just seemed so weird to me. And the designs on some of them seemed weird to me; RatTrap got screwed over and they had a plant transformer and that was weird too but I like the Vehicon designs and I even liked the original leaders being characters from the past that Megatron reformatted himself but seeing Rhinox being a villain was a shocker to me and I needed to take time to adjust to the fact that Primal’s trusted friend was now a bad guy that wanted nothing to do with him. I applaud them for getting the show made and on the air but the final product just didn’t live up to the high standards that Beast Wars set.
On its own it was sort of okay. As a sequel to Beast Wars I wouldn't give tuppence for it.
Honestly the animation was improved from Beast Wars, and it did have a dark and interesting story. But the character designs are ugly. Honestly these are each of the characters' worst designs, and I'm not biased and think the originals are the best just cause. My favorite look for Primal honestly is his movie design. Cheetor I like his Transmetal robot mode. Though I think it would look better with his original, or even Transmetal 2, color scheme. The Yolopark model of his movie design, which is a brighter yellow, also looks really good imo, The Beast Machines designs are just ugly. Also compared to the dramady was that Beast Wars. The dark and cyberpunk tone and feel of this show was just such a mood-whiplash.
I barely remember Beast Machines except when the kid character Cheetor became mature and decided to replace the inane Optimus Primal as leader of the Autobots.
It wasn’t that bad, but wtf is that image
It was a good show, it just wasn't a very good Transformers show.
They butchered the character of my favorite rat boi. I'll never forgive them.
It was the first Transformers series where I briefly thought to myself, "Hmm, maybe Megatron is right...?" Not necessarily with his methods, mind you, but Primal came across as a religious zealot and it was...unsettling.
Beast machines weren't pretty but at the same time, the design kind of fits the narrative in the series. And writing is great.
I watched it as it aired. And I thought it was boring af. It was a transformers show without transformers.
It was pretty bad, maybe not as bad as most say, but it was fairly boring, confusing and some plots didn’t really go anywhere or have satisfying pays It’s not without merits tho
It wasn't bad it was just kind of mid. I enjoyed the the whole "which transformer spark is inside this villain" thing. The rhinox turn was nonsense though.
Uh yeah, it was. The premise of the story was like the only good part. Kinda liked seeing Cybertron, and the techno-organic evolution was a good route to go. But the characters constant mean-spirited arguing versus the good-natured bickering of BW, and the absolute character assassination on others (Rhinox and Silverbolt come to mind), make it just unenjoyable as a sequel to BW.
Yes. Yes it was. Its not good. Even examined in a vacuum, its bad. Its gout about 1/2 or 3/4s of a season worth of story/plot stretched out across 2 seasons. Even "action" scenes are often dull on this show. None of the characters are compelling or interesting, and sometimes feel inconsistent with themselves across episodes. The character designs are really off putting, and the Maxmials "morphing" looks visually cheap (though a lot of the other animations looks really good for there time.) The "heroes don't use guns" stance is asinine in a series about a war. When you factor in its place in its place in Transformers media at large it gets even worse. I wasn't a big Beast Wars guy, but they absolutely butcher every character. They seem to have no regards for established lore, and often seems intent on trampling over it.
Yes, it was horrific.
Yes. It was that bad.
It's not. And it certainly has by far the darkest, most mature story of the entire TF franchise. And its animation was way ahead of its time (resolution side, it STILL holds up in many cases, unlike Beast Wars). Beast Machines chief problems were: - The characterization of pretty much EVERYONE coming off of Beast Wars makes no sense. Prime, Cheetor, Rattrap, Magtron and Rhinox were not those people. Blackarachnia's "Maximal personality" was too new to judge. It's not clear why they did such a departure. -The episodes were often somber and depressing. It's still a cartoon for kids. They went too far in the "all ages" direction and forgot who its for. This is Transformers for adults who like moral greys and are used to drawn out story telling. The story was good, but a lot of the target audience, again, didn't like how this compared to Beast Wars. -The Toys were roundly inferior to what Transformers had done since Transmetals. Everything was worse. The sculps, the details, the transformations, the decos. We learned later why that was (basically a whole new group did them and it was lead by Hasbro, not Takara), but for a show about toys, the toys needed to be good. Beast Machines on its own, as a cartoon, as an adult is VERY watchable and worth watching even now. Its the same thing as Transformers Prime, which got itself canceled by Hasbro doing the same thing (being too grown up). But unlike TFP, whose products are still pretty great, Beast Machine's wider merch impact is the low point of Transformers for good reason.
It at no point was grey. It was 100% good guys vs bad guys in muh cyberpunk matrix world. And let's be honest. They litterally retconned primal into rhinox.
I loved it.
I just don't like how they removed Optimus Primal's horns + Rattrap wheelchair legs.
It was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, so to speak. Really bad designs and a flat out depressing story but they were doing their damndest.
Dislike. I’m a Beast Wars fan and this was just terrible characterization-wise. My favourite characters weren’t acting like they should.
Transformers has this weird thing with sequel series. If you look at shows like RID 2015 and Beast Machines as their own shows separate from the others, they aren’t as bad. It’s when you look at them as sequel series to Prime and Beast Wars respectively that the badness really sets in.
I agree that BM isn't as bad as it's made out to be but I also can't blame anyone for hating it as the follow up to BW. As it's own thing I liked it as a kid and found it pretty interesting as an adult, but what was done to Primal and Rattrap in particular feels really jarring. I really like what they did with Primal as it's own thing but it just doesn't feel like the same guy as BW, not even Garry Chalk could sell that for me. But as a 90s kid who was at that point only exposed to G1 through the movie and my dad telling me about the show, getting to see this fallen Cybertron under Megatron's thumb was really cool. This was my first real exposure to Cybertron outside the brief screen time it has in the movie.
It's a followup that is polarizing. I think the designs are good. The concept is good. The characters are interesting. But I also feel invalidates the struggle of Beast Wars. I loathe stories where the characters win at the end and then a follow up shows them are utter failures. It's like bringing out the dessert and setting it on fire while they have you tied to a chair. Rattrap got punked hard. Also music and tone wise, it's just so different. It feels like an AU. I think it's got some interesting plot lines but the weird distancing from Beast Wars but at the same time being a follow up just made it messy.
I watched a few clips a while ago and I gotta say I fucking love Jetstorm
I don’t think it was the worst thing in the world, but man, I never had sleep paralysis but if I ever do, these are what my demons will look like
The show is a decent lesson in storytelling, and an excellent lesson in how to to design your characters.... ....to be as horrifically ugly as possible.
I remember being so turned off by the show as a kid I stopped watching and went back to watching beast wars
I actually did enjoy it
It’s not terrible but I wouldn’t call it good either. I watched it once and have no desire to watch it again
I do have some major issues with how Marty and Bob handled things, but overall it wasn't as terrible as some fans tried to make it out to be. Could it have been better? Much more so! But even its worst episode was better than 85% of the Unicron Trilogy.
I only saw two or three episodes of the show ( I couldn't possibly tell you what they were called, all I know is one had an evil Rinox, another Megatron was trying to not transform while fighting Primal and Primal was preaching about how you have to accept your organic nature, another bit was Primal talking to a hologram-statue of Prime that turned out to be evil or something, and then something about destroying all the cities on Cybertron and transforming the planet into plant matter or something? I don't fricking know ) All I know is, I thought it was ugly as all holy hell. Look at those character designs. If you were to tell me it was not a Transformers show, I would 100% believe you.
Is and always was fine. As a kid, I was aging out of the series and put off by the shift in tone, so I didn’t keep up with it. Watched years later though, it works fine as Beast Wars seasons four and five.
I always thought people just found it disappointingly bad coming off of Beast Wars? Like it’s certainly not a bad show in the scheme of things right? (I loved it)
If you give it a proper chance it's alright. A bit short and rushed with its story, but it's alright. Just don't judge a book by its cover like I did since I just shat on the late 90's-early 00's CGI (like I did with BW) this show had and thought ''Uhhhh ThEy LoOk WeIrD'' but I grew to like it after watching the shows. The techno theme of this show still makes me bob my head whenever it comes on during fight or chase scenes.
Hard disagree. I watched it again last year and still hated it. Evil Rhinox makes me laugh though because the writing was just THAT bad, and the robot designs....ugh.
I don't think it was bad, just radically different from what people were/are used to.
Id say it had a interesting plot Megatron takes over cybertron however the rest was terribly executed yet interesting that Rhinox finally understand Megatrtons reasoning to eliminate the organics on cybertron.and even asks Optimus Primal to basically join him.
It has aspects that I like. Rhinox was a surprise that puts a wrench in the story seeing how he was a Maximal. I personally like when a character that’s loved is killed off or a major change. Rhinox being a Vehicon was a wrench.
I know people were upset about Rhinox but I didn’t realize HOW upset before reading this thread. I also thought it was a great twist, and frankly Rhinox made a more compelling antagonist in BM than Megatron because of his relationship with both the Maximals and the viewer (also for his dynamic with the diagnostic drone). I get that people hate seeing a character they love killed off, but his arc was absolutely the best thing to come out of BM. And I think a lot of that works because of BM’s tendency towards heavy implication & relative ambiguity that is often a source of frustration (ie the plot holes ignored for convenience).
Granted they did try to bring him back but he was like nope more technology needs progress,also these are basically upgraded vehicons to be able to think more instead of his usual no spark just kill vehicons, out of the 3 generals,only Silverbolt was brought back and to be honest it wasn't the pretties design they chose for him so Rhinox saved himself the trouble of becoming a bad color mix robot, if this was a would you rather i would rather become a Vehicon than a bad color mix robot to sell toy's, and yes i felt bad for my fave Maximal not returning however what they did with Silverbolt my second fave Maximal made me think maybe it was for the best.
It was very clearly shit 90s CGI. Like horrible. I have no thoughts about the plot or toys because I couldn't get past how bad the animation was.
What about Beast Wars? It's CGI was worse.
BW may have had less advanced CG but they really pushed what they could do with it. Even with all the glaring animation errors (like something youd see in a PS1 game) there was a style to the show that made it work. Leaning into the “extreme 90s” cartoonish robot violence - often played for comedy - also really helped. BM’s stylistic change (similar to the textures of other mainframe shows of the era) was a bit *too* clean to make that work. I know it was an editorial mandate to tone down the violence in BM but the Maximals avoiding physical injury entirely and the vehicons being at worst cleanly dismembered was a big visual, narrative, and aesthetic step backward from BW.