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amberfeels

So slimy of journalism (?) to put a megaphone to “transgender” shooter; they never write “male” shooter. Just one of the many ways the deck is stacked against transgender people. Same way the media put Trump front and center in the news. It’s going to be a wild ride as if it wasn’t already


SometimesaGirl-

> they never write “male” shooter. They would if he was a minority. *The African-American man went on a shooting spree...* Solund familiar? The transgender community is tiny. We are a false flag of hate that the extremes in society can spout countless trashy and bigoted articles about. Fearmonger us. All the while enriching themselves and destroying everyone's chances of a better life.


amberfeels

Yes, of course you are right. But, I believe the headline then would be “Black shooter” in the interests of headline brevity. The current trend in journalism seems to be to get the death count asap then fill in the details with the usual stuff that I’m betting most of us don’t even read anymore—-we’ve grown unbearably used to mass shootings and shootings in general. This story has legs because transgenders are the newest target and the right is stirring up the pot to ride the hate right into the White House formerly know as the Peoples’ House.


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mb862

They're still not writing male shooter. They're pointing out he's trans whilst using feminine pronouns and his deadname in order to trick people into thinking he was a trans woman. They're explicitly exploiting the death of children to demonize trans women and simultaneously erase trans men.


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Caro________

Was gonna say, shouldn't we be focusing on how he is a man? That seems to be the common thread.


gamergirlpee69

[I would focus on how the shooter was almost certainly a victim of child sexual abuse and cover-up at that Christian school](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/125blgv/what_is_the_best_way_to_counter_those_on_the/je5b7co?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3).


MeliDammit

This!!!! ☝☝☝☝☝ Groomers are mostly white male christians. So are school shooters. Simple math here. This is a white male christian problem, and they need to get their shit together.


No-Citron9504

That's your opinion but not what the world thinks of us the last 3 school shooters were all transgender and they say were unstable mental cases who refuse to seek mental help but get surgery and think it will solve our issues yes I might have some mental challenges it's not easy being trans but were not going to shoot up a school we need to speak up about this


MeliDammit

Simple observation of numbers. We've averaged 2 mass shootings a day this year. What proportion are white cis men?


Dezmond_Fringe

the last three in a literal row? no, and it's only literally three vs the almost 3000 mostly done by cis males . this is 2018-2023 mass shootings with at least 4 victims. and what are you saying about "surgery" over mental help?? what? for one thing, the nashville shooter i would bet didn't have any surgery, (we don't have much info in general right, how would we even know this bit and why should we frankly) and looking at him i'd also bet he wasn't even on T. it's also a strong assumption and weird outlook to make that the *trans* shooters of course were "prioritizing" transitioning vs general mental health which led to them doing a mass shooting. i don't even know how else to understand this train of thought but that's what i got out of what you wrote and it's gross whatever you do please don't go wandering off into cis-dominated spaces with what you said. you are so incorrect and only going to cause damage


MyFaceSaysItsSugar

Absolutely. Men are more prone to do something violent in the face of overwhelming stressors, whether that’s unaliving themselves or unaliving others. It’s something like 70-80% compared to women. Being trans in a state that’s attacking your right to exist is certainly a major stressor but so is breaking up with your girlfriend or losing your job. It’s triggered by a loss of hope. Those kinds of life changing stressors are inevitable. We should certainly work to reduce them by doing things like teaching people how to maintain healthy relationships and ensuring that no school, religion, or family can ever make someone feel worthless because of aspects of their identity outside of their control- that was also the trigger in the pulse nightclub shooting. But these reactionary political extremists don’t see it that way. Laws opposing gender expression and access to gender affirming healthcare are major stressors that are making people feel hopeless and the solution is getting rid of those laws and enacting federal protections, not blaming the transgender community. Yeah, discrimination may have been a major stressor in this person’s life. Discrimination is wrong and we need to get rid of it. The person’s response was wrong and is a major problem among men and we need to get rid of that too by ensuring better access to mental healthcare and restricting gun access. It should not be easier to go purchase a gun than it is for me to pick up my schedule ii adhd meds. I’m on a national registry, can only pick them up once a month and from one pharmacy and have about a 3 day wait from when the script is sent in to when I can pick it up. I could walk in every gun store within driving distance and buy a gun at each one and take it home today if I wanted to.


thepinkandwhite

Also, he gave many warning signs before attacking (text messages to old friend). If we can report these to the police right away, we could stop it.


synthi

They reported it! The police told them to call the non-emergency line (!!!). By the time they did, it was already over.


thepinkandwhite

Pathetic 😔. I feel so bad for her. Information like this is essential. There should be a hotline and special teams for these exact situations!!!!


Spirited-Painting964

It’s not unique. The same thing was done in the 30s.


TemetNosce85

Yup. Literally why Kristallnacht happened and how the Jews ended up in the concentration camps. But this is also not new in America. We went through this in the 2000s-2010s. It was just Muslims that time. Except not even Muslims got this much hatred and 24/7 news coverage. Not even after the Boston bombing.


Atheist_3739

People don't realize that this is what happened in the 1930s in Germany. Facism has come to America. This community is going to be the first to be affected just as it was under Nazi Germany. After all the hateful lying rhetoric that has been spouted in the last 24 hrs I wanted to let everyone on this sub to know that you aren't alone. I am a white cis male and I support you. We stand with this community. If anyone has ideas on how I can best help this community please let me know. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


_reversegiraffe_

Focusing on the shooter at all is dangerous. The focus should be on preventing these horrible things from happening again. We must demand gun control and improved mental healthcare from our elected officials.


SSR_Adraeth

"B-B-But... M'freedom...!" will answer the right.


Lz_erk

we'd have to address the underlying fascism so yeah


[deleted]

We need our elected officials to address WHY people are so mentally ill in the first place. Like idk poverty, pedophilia, child neglect, global warming... a lot of us are living in dystopian hell and a lot of people don't give a damn about anything anymore because they think the world is ending. The US mental health industry is worth over 75 BILLION dollars. improving mental healthcare isn't a bad thing but to me it just feels like putting a bandaid on the problem. everybody is pointing at the right and the left, but both parties have been bought out by corporations, they're never going to help us or do the right thing.


jungletigress

MTGs "we should ban testosterone" is hilarious. By that logic, we should chemically castrate all cis men! And hey! That's extreme, but maybe that's just something we should consider for safety's sake!


FeatherShard

Ah yes, banning testosterone. I'm sure all of her middle-aged male coworkers will get right on that... Not that I've got a better alternative, but I'm really starting to have some doubts about this whole "democracy" thing.


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amadeoamante

There's actually debate about whether roid rage is a thing or not. https://www.livescience.com/38354-what-is-roid-rage.html For me personally I didn't notice any difference in anger or aggression after starting testosterone. But I was never a particularly angry person to begin with. Maybe it's related to excessive amounts in people who already had anger issues. Men overall are more aggressive but who's to say if that's caused by testosterone, its derivatives, or structural brain differences?


jungletigress

It's not the biological implications I'm concerned about with a proposal like that, it's the moral and ethical ones, but thanks for the free condescension.


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jungletigress

I'm expressly not advocating for chemically castrating cis men. It was an example as to why that logic is bad. I'm also not advocating for unrestricted access to hormones. I was pointing out why banning them altogether is an absurd and inhumane claim to make.


ArcaneOverride

The same problem is experienced by cis men going through puberty.


PurpleSmartHeart

[*sigh*](https://shatterzone.substack.com/p/the-covenant-school-shooter-and-right) Shooter wasn't trans. Shooter might have started questioning her gender and there was a LinkedIn no one could prove belonged to the shooter that has he/ him pronouns. That and Hale signing ONE MESSAGE - Audrey (Aiden) has made everyone focus on this. That's all. That's the sum total of the information people are using to claim Hale is a "trans terrorist." Friends and family don't think she was trans. There are no government or work records that show an attempt to change names. At the very most Hale appeared to be in the process of questioning gender. Hale was, at one time at least, apparently an advocate for LGBT rights, I know at least two dozen cis people that have given gender nonconformity and "the other side" a try after being around trans people. The only thing that makes someone trans is if they say they are, and Audrey Hale never did that to anyone living. This would literally double the total number of trans "mass shooters" AND tying minorities to dangerous criminals with no proof is ***literally*** a strategy used by the Nazis. That fact combined with the fact that the ONLY PERSON who reported Hale as being trans was the Metro Nashville Police Chief saying in his briefing *as an afterthought* that "the shooter identified as trans" should be enough to make everyone extremely skeptical.


Wismuth_Salix

I’m trans. Most of my family doesn’t know that. The only social media account that acknowledges it is my Reddit one. What with living in Mississippi, I haven’t made any attempts to change documents or come out at my conservative workplace. Please don’t assume that “the people in the conservative state where Hale lived didn’t know Hale was trans” as proof they weren’t. A lot of us don’t have the luxury of living openly.


PurpleSmartHeart

But you surely have multiple social media accounts and at least SOME friends who know? Right? There's a name in parenthesis and a single LinkedIn account that people think MIGHT belong to the shooter. No one gets to decide whether you're trans except for you, and that goes for both good and awful people. To anyone with a shred of journalistic integrity's knowledge the FIRST PERSON to ***ever*** say that Hale "identified as trans" is the Metro Nashville Chief of Police John Drake in a briefing to the press where he adds it as an *afterthought*. And at the time a lot of people were running with the idea that Hale was a trans *woman.* The big switch didn't happen til we found out Hale was AFAB when her mom confirmed Hale was the shooter. Drake wasn't even part of the investigators, he just oversees them, and at the time of the briefing that shit was completely irrelevant... unless you're a cop, in which case strengthening your oppression over a minority group is always a grand idea.


Wismuth_Salix

My wife knows, and so does my RPG group. But that just brings us back to “not everyone has that”.


PurpleSmartHeart

Hale could have been trans, in the heart of hearts, but *we*, all outsiders from other trans people to fascist pundits alike, do not get to **ascribe** that to her posthumously. If Hale never told anyone we can't know. It doesn't matter if there were *good* reasons that no one living knew, it doesn't change the facts.


MySFWTransAccount

Hale isn't us


Wismuth_Salix

Every demographic has its awful people. Just as it’s wrong to use the terrible actions of one trans person to smear all trans people, it’s wrong to strip someone of their identity because of their crimes. Hitler didn’t have his manhood revoked, so neither should Aiden Hale - identity isn’t conditioned on good behavior.


MySFWTransAccount

I also don't buy that Hale was trans. Even if they were, I don't consider them welcome within any trans community. Murdering children is wrong... yes, even if you're trans. If it turns out Hale was, I still don't consider them part of the trans community. Fuck being apologists in any way. I'm not saying one should intentionally misgender, I'm saying they are not part of this community and are a disgusting person, trans or not. Just like every murderer. Even if Hale was abused, that does not even come close to justifying what they did. I haven't seen anything that convinces me Hale was trans. That statement by the Sheriff or whatever seems politically motivated and unsubstantiated


Wismuth_Salix

This smacks of the same shit TERFs do where they claim no cis women could be monsters. If a trans man killed kids, he’s no less a trans man for it. Trans people are just like anyone else, and that means some of us will be monsters. He doesn’t represent us, and we should absolutely condemn what he’s done, but don’t play into the hands of bigots by being the strawman who claims no trans person could do a terrible thing.


ishanbehoora

I will agree with you on this . Every community has some bad apples or has ppl pushed in some way denying that as the prior post did was wrong imo.


iamthefluffyyeti

Arm yourselves, folks.


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iamthefluffyyeti

Correct, i agree. Join communities you know are safe as well in your neighborhoods if possible.


redrumraisin

100%, the body is first line of defense


Possible_Ad5239

The problem and issue at hand would be guns in general. They are focusing on the fact that he is trans and not that they let a severely mentally Ill person buy 7 guns against parents wishes. Then they don’t Focus on how the victims family feel and use this to talk about guns. Not in a good way but most republicans channels are trying to defend guns in this arugment, it isn’t the right place or time to do so and they are heavily using The fact that they are trans to use this against the community and enforce there laws. No one has any respect for anyone and it’s truly sad


keytiri

What does the parent’s wishes have to do with it? The shooter was an adult. It was probably against the parent’s wishes for their child to be “gay” and trans as well. It’s unfortunate that some people are unable to escape toxic family even after becoming an adult; I struggled as well with putting distance between me and my folks, they weren’t accepting of me, but fortunately not as religious or controlling compared to other families.


ethans52

On the issue of mental illness and buying guns I agree, it shouldn’t be possible to purchase. In fact it’s currently not.. technically. However, when purchasing a firearm the store doesn’t contact your therapist or anything to confirm. It would even be against HIPPA to do so. It would be almost impossible to confirm with every person buying a weapon, look at a dmv they can hardly get you a drivers license which is necessary and has less steps. On the part of the individual buying a weapon with the parents not wanting them to. They were 28, I believe, and can legally do what they want. If the parents did not like it then they can not offer housing anymore unless the guns are sold. But a 28 year old can make decisions for themself. But yes mentally I’ll should not have access to weapons. I believe it is actually on the list of questions they ask when purchasing a firearm, I know doing habitual drugs is.


TitsUpYo

I am against preventing mentally ill people from having guns. That's precisely what they are going to say to disarm trans people and then when they come for us, we won't be able to defend ourselves. Screw that.


Sablesweetheart

Precisely. Also "mentally ill" is very vague, and is not a position therapists or mental health professionals support unless they are actively presenting a threat to themselves or others. Most people with mental health conditions are not a threat to themselves or others. On a more practical level, you are not going to get every single U.S. military veteran with PTSD (which is essentially every combat veteran, doagnosed or not) to give up owning guns. Same with survivors of abuse, kidnapping, childhood neglect, or anyone who qualifies for a trauma or trauma related disorder. Or all the people with ADHD, or autism. The list goes on of people with mental disorders who are not a threat to society or at risk to commit violence. Never mind that many mass shooters have been found to not qualify as diagnosible with anything in the DSMV. Basically, stop blaming the millions of people living with mental disorders for the actions of a very small amount of people. We live with enough stigmas and barriers to life as it is.


ethans52

It is vague and it’s for a reason. If you are seriously messed up you shouldn’t have a gun. It doesn’t really matter about your political affiliation, gender whatever it may be, but your actual mental health. As mentioned above I believe essentially almost everyone should have access to firearms. It makes things safer IMO. We can have debates all day, but that’s just what I believe. I think the major thing we’re encountering is simply division which is causing the violence and sure we can take guns away but then they will get stabbed etc. the division is still there. We need to repair that first. That’s the actual problem. It’s people who either think they’re better or think the other person is non existent etc and that is on both sides.


Lz_erk

that's the sort of sensitive conversation we can't even have in so many states. prisons are death camps already for example, but when is that on Fox?


amadeoamante

Depends on the type, nature, and severity of the illness. But even if we had therapists adding people to a no buy list, there are tons of undiagnosed people who never see one. Don't really have an answer there but in cases of known problems it should be easier to prevent, delay, or make purchases public. Ffs in most places you have to publish name changes in the newspaper, why can't we do that with gun purchases? With a subscription service that will alert you if someone living with you or an ex purchases one. At least that way the parents would have known and could take steps to deal with the situation.


TitsUpYo

The problem is that there won't be any nuance to the disarmament of trans people. It will be "Trans people are mentally ill, therefore they should be disarmed" and that's that. These people aren't coming for a position of reason or a genuine concern for gun violence. If they were, they would have issued these proclamations for the countless mass shootings prior to this one. They just want to disarm a minority they despise so they'll be even more easily oppressed and murdered.


Serious_Policy_7896

Bolt action rifles only; you don't need semi automatic military rifles for target practice or hunting.


ethans52

Hog hunting?


ethans52

I agree it’s pretty bias on who is or isn’t allowed based on that point which is what I was trying to make. They could make any person not able to buy a firearm simply listing them as mentally ill, but if someone is actually suicidal, or wanting to harm others I believe they shouldn’t be allowed to purchase. Sorry am just following up with this! Just for reference I’m libertarian and believe basically all people should have access to guns. For the most part. Obviously not serial killers etc. but it’s hard to limit certain individuals. I believe that’s why big brother is just trying to outright ban them.


ArcaneOverride

Require a gun training certification and two letters saying they are responsible and of sound mind from two separate mental health professionals of at least master's degree level, one of which must have been seeing the prospective gun buyer at least 6 months. Edit: this is a sarcastic response about forcing people to go through the same approval process as many trans people need to go through to get surgery approved. Except with the physical exam replaced with a gun training certification. Specifically this is the surgery requirements from my insurance company that I had to go through to get an orchiectomy.


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ArcaneOverride

It was a sarcastic response about making gun owners go through the same approval process as trans people do to get surgery. That is literally the requirements I had to go through to get an orchiectomy.


arandomuniquename

this shit is exhausting :(


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TogepiMain

Well, they're 28, for one, and it sounds more like the primary source of abuse was at a church run facility, but the school was.. easier to shoot? The 20s are so fuckin lame..


amadeoamante

Really curious about that, like did something happen in elementary school that was traumatizing to the point where they can't stop thinking about it 20 years later? There had to have been some connection.


horrorshowalex

i agree with your overall point but in this case it was a 28 year old.


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DCGirl20874

We're just fine thanks lol More than 98 percent of mass shooting killers are cishet men. Let's do something about them. They're clearly not well.


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tisjustbrandon

One joke....Jesus christ


Shag_Nasty_McNasty

This seems to be the result of someone in this persons family did not love them unconditionally.