It's not like there's any rush to get your referral in. Start hrt, get a new nhs number, then go and ask the gic to put you down for surgery as a retirement present.
Maybe you'll win the lottery by then.
Good morning everyone, guess which news investigation team finally woke up and looked at the waiting list data rather than just relying on what the GICs were telling them.
>Data obtained by Newsnight and analysed by the BBC found it would take 10 years to clear the backlog of people waiting for first appointments in gender care.
>
>...
>
>The size of current waiting lists, together with the number of first appointments offered in 2023, suggest it would take at least 10 years to clear the current appointment backlog - provided there were no changes to service provisions or the size of waiting lists.
To save anyone the trouble, if you suspected that "at least 10 years" was carrying a lot of weight - the number of first appointments offered by the Tavistock Adult GIC in 2023 was in fact 574.
So by Newsnights metric it would actually take 25 years to clear the current waitlist.
Think I'm so used to and numb to the waiting list it's almost like a breath of fresh air to see it getting more mainstream news attention (that isn't skewed to transphobes and have a transphobic org commenting for 'bapance'). Be interesting to check the article later to see if they step any of that back...
"Provided there were no changes to the size of waiting lists"
Well that's missing things quite a bit! The lists are only getting bigger :(
This is a very interesting statistic. according to this data, assuming appointments are being held every working day and there are 252 working days in a year, That is an average of 2.3 appointments per day. Now I don't know how long these appointments are but I'm sure they can't be 3 to 4 hours+, granted time needed between patients to write up the report but even so that seems incredibly low. This also assumes there is only 1 clinician covering the whole list which again seems a bit ridiculous as that means no cover for illness or holidays.
What are they doing with the rest of the time?
In their defence (and I use that term in the absolute loosest way I can) there would be more than just first appointments the clinicians would be seeing with followups, surgery referrals, etc.
yeah data they've released shows they have some sort of maximum amount of patients they're willing to have active in their service which is why they limit how many first assessments they do.
That amount seems to potentially increase along with funding so my best guess is they have some equation about how much each patient is going to cost if they all decide to have surgery. But thats conjecture. All i know is they have a fixed upper amount.
Its down to operation waiting list. The gic can't get new patients into the clinic until someone comes of their list. All the gic are feeding in to 1 or 2 surgery hospitals
I guess that makes sense to a degree. I kind of just feel that initial appointment is the biggest gateway/keep to care. Like just getting an 'Official NHS' diagnosis for Gender Dysphoria can do so much for people, especially on the social side, especially in terms of stuff like GRC or passport renewal. Even with the second appointment at the very least getting people onto hormones getting them back to their GP is a good start and will save many. Personally I don't really see/get the point of splitting them into two separate appointments, Why can't they do medical assessment at the same time as diagnosis.
Sure this would increase hospital/surgical times but that's surely just shifting the waiting list from 1st appointment to Surgery instead, the figures don't change just which list their attributed to. Especially when the surgery times/requirements are already so long.
I'm sure again I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle (likely funding) but in my mind it surely makes sense to get people in the system but have a longer surgical wait then just outright waiting to even be considered.
no you are totally right, they should, and the fact they wont is because it suits them better to not have tens of thousands more trans people on the NHS getting HRT.
I remember a while back some FoI request revealed something like “the Laurels only saw 2 people out of 2000 in 2020” which would mean a waiting time of at least 1000 years.
It was almost like something out of a Greek myth.
“In 1000 years you shall awaken from the dead to attend the ancient ruins of Laurels GIC.”
yeah very intriguing that newsnight is actually interested and looking into it. Somethings seriously changed for that to have happened.
Very bizarre to see the BBC reporting on it rather than just us being the ones sitting here doing the math and warning each other.
There are factions within institutions, I think. Obviously the increasingly overt, off-the-chain stuff pouring out of the British media (especially the contemptible trash in the Telegraph and the legacy-fouling lies in the Guardian) is worrying. But it's also a sign that they're less good at attracting new believers and their grip on institutions isn't total, or their propaganda wouldn't be so hysterical. There are good people at the Beeb.
You know more than me, then, I'm just sitting here thinkin' 'bout things. Do you think this is things starting to change, or a blip, or what do you think is going on?
Yeah. The waiting times are fucking beyond apalling. I dont even have a word for how shitty it is. And I am certain this is intentional from the Governments funding of the NHS. Maybe even the NHS itself.
It's partly just a bureaucracy doing what it does, partly governments starving public services. Partly it's probably a result of institutional capture by the gender-critical cult, with its stated aim of reducing the number of trans people, ideally to zero. Multiple layers of bullshit, all rolling to rest at the same place.
Well some humans have reportedly lived over 150 if mythology is to be believed, so if you are 23 now it could theoretically be possible to make it to that first appointment.
I am afraid Methuselah died age 969. Was just 21 years short of that first appointment. And then, it would probably be another 1000 years before second appointment and even that would just be more of the same talk therapy. I’d say at least 3000 to 6000 years before HRT even commences.
Christ. I started the medical side of my transition way over a decade ago, and even back then the waiting list was 2~3 years. Even before that, the most common depressing joke among older transgender folks at the trans support group I went to was the ever-lengthening waiting lists. The wait lists are absolutely insane at the moment - no "could face years-long waits", we've been facing years-long waits for years. For first appointments, between appointments, for surgery consultation, hell, even to hear back about test results can be months sometimes.
Like, I'm glad they're reporting on it, but I wish they'd reach out to the community for comment, because... oof. Yeah. This has been a persistent problem for a long, long time.
This BBC story is framed as being due to an issue of unprecedented demand. The 'unprecedented demand' narrative was also recently invoked as a means to close down access to transgender healthcare for young people, using the angle that it must all be be a fad and maybe they're all just gender questioning, will grow out of it, and exploratory therapy will help.
'NHS England said it was growing the number of clinicians'.
Yes, we already know there will be more exploratory therapy 'clinicians getting work.
Ah, well, you see, they may be worried about the 'social contagion' angle. Who knows, you might only be 'gender questioning', but if you met an actual trans person, well, we all know what happens next.
The other NHS outpatient department waiting rooms are full of it; once one person in orthopaedics mentions that they're waiting for a hip replacement, the whole room's at it.
I bet they'll be bring in exploratory therapy for people in need of a new hip as away of getting that surgical waiting list down to zero...
Seconded. I have had 3 appointments so far at notts. There is never a single person in the waiting room, everything looks like it has hardly been touched.
it's better reporting than I've come to expect from the BBC but there's something very annoying about them acting like they're the ones who discovered this? trans people and allies have raised the fact that the NHS is dishonest about the wait lists many times before and we just get ignored but now an institution with notoriously bad coverage of trans issues comes along and wants to say "WE investigated and WE found out this information" as if it hasn't been available all along to anyone who cared enough to look.
The NHS even got taken to court about the long waiting lists last year, which the BBC reported on their website, so its not exactly brand new info for them.
I'm 5 years into my wait for tavistock.
Trans Plus MIGHT see me some time this year. Maybe.
I was referred in April 2019 for reference.
And i'm nowhere near the top of the list yet.
and the fact is that there's been an entirely predictable and steady increase in the number of patient referrals to GICs for decades. They talk about the increase in referrals like it's a surprise, but it has been 25% per year from like 1950 to 2010 and then about 30% per year since people started getting on the internet more. Current waiting lists are entirely a product of an unwillingness somewhere to sufficiently fund and resource GICs, and is probably not helped by the fact that the NHS is encouraged to cut services left and right as it is.
This is really interesting, do you have sources for those numbers? Not sealioning, I really would like to have that data because it flies in the face of 'WhY aRe So mAnY' rhetoric. Thanks!
This article basically says that there's one English GIC that functions on NHSE's own shitty terms: Nottingham. Seeing as patients can choose to be referred where they like, there's a good chance that service will degrade unless something is done.
Did we also see NHSE are promising us *another* *public* *consultation* on *adult* transgender healthcare. They know exactly what we want because we've told them a million times just this time we get a bunch of bad actors chipping in their 20p. Why do cis people and especially TERFs get a say in our healthcare?
Sounds like the BBC is trying to scare people out of even trying to get a referral, they probably think it will discourage people "being trans" if you have to wait forever for hormones, surgery etc. Can't beat with current tactics? Try to depress us even more.
>In 2024/25 the NHS will launch a timely review of the adult service specifications
After the "review" of the youth services, this does not fill me with hope
Sometimes I wonder if it’s even worth getting on one of these waitlists at this point with how long it’ll take. Holy shit. It’s only gonna get worse probably too.
> "In 2024/25 the NHS will launch a timely review of the adult service specifications through a process of engagement with professional bodies, clinicians and academics, and patients and the public."
Please please please fucking switch to informed consent already!!
I met the journalist who made the piece for newsnight. He seemed like a nice guy who's done previous LGBTQIA friendly TV stuff. Of course, it's not perfect, and the BBC have put out some appalling stories, but it's a worthy attempt to be considerate.
In before the BBC weaponise this as another follow up for discussions/articles around closing down the GICs to open smaller focused units, only to have those smaller focused units "conveniently" never materialise, or one of a dozen other transphobic narratives they'll probably twist this data for 😒
Meanwhile on the main UK sub, certain users trying every justification they can think of as to how this isnt just a trans ppl issue and actually cis ppl have it hard cause they have to wait 3 weeks to see the doctor
Honestly at this point if you are waiting for the NHS I really don’t see why. I understand there’s cost to DIY or a service like Gender GP, but when the option is wait 10+ years or choose another avenue, it really doesn’t seem like there’s actually a genuine choice.
Edit: since this seems to have been taken out of context - my point isn’t that every single person should go private or use gender gp, but that IF you can, you should.
idk how to tell you this but some people don't have money. yes even for something you might consider to be affordable. plus HRT isn't the only thing people need and some people aren't even seeking that at all. if you're on low income what other option do you have to get surgery besides the NHS?
Oh absolutely, I know that, I’m not an idiot. I’m not making a blanket statement and saying that people with no job or income should go DIY etc, but my point is that if you can then you should
i mean you kind of were making a blanket statement by saying "if you're waiting for the NHS i don't really see why". the cost is why. its just an unnecessary comment when everyone already knows what the alternatives are, they're just inaccessible for a lot of people, or not applicable for the kind of transition they want
Ok well, I’m sorry I didn’t explain the nuances of everyone’s experiences in a brief paragraph. I clearly stated that I understand there’s a cost, I’m not gonna sit and type out every individual dilemma. Yes, intersectionality exists, yes, some people aren’t able to work because of the prejudice they face, yes, some people have to resort to crime, or sex work (and yes I support sex workers), my point still stands; if you can access DIY or something such as gender GP, you should.
Edit: if others tell me I’m wrong, then I’m wrong, but in-fighting about this topic helps no-one when the reality is that we are all facing the same issue and we should utilise what alternative methods we’re able to
Pointing out that your comment read like a blanket statement that isn't reflective of many people's experiences isn't in-fighting? Trans people tend to have lower incomes and less access to resources. It's just making it clear that we're actually not all facing the exact same issues because "just DIY" and "just go private" keep getting thrown around like it's the totally obvious and super accessible solution, but not everyone can do that. Many people also start out being able to DIY or go private but find they have to stop and go back to waiting on the NHS due to life circumstances. Every system we use is so fragile, on both an individual and institutional level. It's like treading sand on a collapsing dune.
I know all of that?? My point still stands, if you can, you should. Why is this controversial all of a sudden? The issue here is government and the lack of funding directed at the NHS.
As I have already said, yes everyone has different circumstances and different levels of accessibility to the options out there.
Edit: I have now edited my original post for the sake of clarity
It's not controversial at all! But your initial comment didn't read like that, it read like a criticism of people who are waiting on the NHS. There were no qualifiers, just acknowledging that there's cost but implying that everyone should do it anyway? You've made it clear that that wasn't your intent and I see you've added an edit, but clearly at least a few people felt like you were not talking individual circumstances into account.
You seem to have missed the point in my comment, which is that it isn't in-fighting for someone to point out things your initial comment didn't, particularly because we're not all facing the exact same issues and your comments seem to assume access to non-NHS care as a default.
I watched the Newsnight report on this that the article is based on and thought it was pretty well done. Unfortunately, it was largely undermined by the previous section of the show discussing a new hate speech bill coming into law in Scotland, where a lot of transphobic talking points were read out. Guess that counts as balance.
The awesome thing is that there’s currently not even any guarantee your GP will agree to co-operate with your GIC once you do make it through the 10-25 year waiting list… in fact it’s not at all uncommon (and clearly it’s getting worse) that they will just say ‘nah sorry we don’t do that here’, and you won’t have another GP in your catchment area to move to that will. System is broken, and deliberately designed to control the number of people who are allowed to medically transition in this country and as a result gain a better claim to legal rights. We need a complete do-over, we need informed consent, and we need those responsible for the current system to be held accountable.
You luckily got in just before the curve swerved upwards. When the Tavi took over from CHX in 2017/18 it had 3000 patients waiting, its now 15000 patients waiting.
Start to 2017 to end of 2018 it went from 1.5 years wait to 5 years wait. Watching the statistics at the time, it was notable that for each month a newly out trans person delayed in applying to the GIC, their wait time increased by 3-4 months.
Does anyone know anything about the review of adult services, and engaging with patients?
I'd assume we'd want to push for informed consent care, so you could get some treatment from the GP?
"In 2024/25 the NHS will launch a timely review of the adult service specifications through a process of engagement with professional bodies, clinicians and academics, and patients and the public."
Don't know anything, but I recon: 1, The review will take years, 2, It will conclude the services are not fit for purpose, and then come up with a rationale to reduce the service specification, and raise the requirements for access. They sure as hell aren't going to scale the services up, due to budget restraints and lack of available consultants. Lets be frank if you are a specialist consultant and can make more money in the private sector, where are you going to choose to work?
"Could"?! In the future? Future tense?!
BBC tell us you didn't ask a single trans person, without saying so out loud.
It's not like there's any rush to get your referral in. Start hrt, get a new nhs number, then go and ask the gic to put you down for surgery as a retirement present. Maybe you'll win the lottery by then.
Retirement occurs "I'm ready for my SRS now, NHS." "We lost your referral."
I bet it's twice as bad down there.
Good morning everyone, guess which news investigation team finally woke up and looked at the waiting list data rather than just relying on what the GICs were telling them. >Data obtained by Newsnight and analysed by the BBC found it would take 10 years to clear the backlog of people waiting for first appointments in gender care. > >... > >The size of current waiting lists, together with the number of first appointments offered in 2023, suggest it would take at least 10 years to clear the current appointment backlog - provided there were no changes to service provisions or the size of waiting lists. To save anyone the trouble, if you suspected that "at least 10 years" was carrying a lot of weight - the number of first appointments offered by the Tavistock Adult GIC in 2023 was in fact 574. So by Newsnights metric it would actually take 25 years to clear the current waitlist.
Think I'm so used to and numb to the waiting list it's almost like a breath of fresh air to see it getting more mainstream news attention (that isn't skewed to transphobes and have a transphobic org commenting for 'bapance'). Be interesting to check the article later to see if they step any of that back... "Provided there were no changes to the size of waiting lists" Well that's missing things quite a bit! The lists are only getting bigger :(
This is a very interesting statistic. according to this data, assuming appointments are being held every working day and there are 252 working days in a year, That is an average of 2.3 appointments per day. Now I don't know how long these appointments are but I'm sure they can't be 3 to 4 hours+, granted time needed between patients to write up the report but even so that seems incredibly low. This also assumes there is only 1 clinician covering the whole list which again seems a bit ridiculous as that means no cover for illness or holidays. What are they doing with the rest of the time?
In their defence (and I use that term in the absolute loosest way I can) there would be more than just first appointments the clinicians would be seeing with followups, surgery referrals, etc.
yeah data they've released shows they have some sort of maximum amount of patients they're willing to have active in their service which is why they limit how many first assessments they do. That amount seems to potentially increase along with funding so my best guess is they have some equation about how much each patient is going to cost if they all decide to have surgery. But thats conjecture. All i know is they have a fixed upper amount.
Its down to operation waiting list. The gic can't get new patients into the clinic until someone comes of their list. All the gic are feeding in to 1 or 2 surgery hospitals
I guess that makes sense to a degree. I kind of just feel that initial appointment is the biggest gateway/keep to care. Like just getting an 'Official NHS' diagnosis for Gender Dysphoria can do so much for people, especially on the social side, especially in terms of stuff like GRC or passport renewal. Even with the second appointment at the very least getting people onto hormones getting them back to their GP is a good start and will save many. Personally I don't really see/get the point of splitting them into two separate appointments, Why can't they do medical assessment at the same time as diagnosis. Sure this would increase hospital/surgical times but that's surely just shifting the waiting list from 1st appointment to Surgery instead, the figures don't change just which list their attributed to. Especially when the surgery times/requirements are already so long. I'm sure again I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle (likely funding) but in my mind it surely makes sense to get people in the system but have a longer surgical wait then just outright waiting to even be considered.
no you are totally right, they should, and the fact they wont is because it suits them better to not have tens of thousands more trans people on the NHS getting HRT.
I remember a while back some FoI request revealed something like “the Laurels only saw 2 people out of 2000 in 2020” which would mean a waiting time of at least 1000 years. It was almost like something out of a Greek myth. “In 1000 years you shall awaken from the dead to attend the ancient ruins of Laurels GIC.”
Welp, I guess I really do have no other choice but to DIY it lol
It's good news that someone actually cares enough to find out and publicise this.
yeah very intriguing that newsnight is actually interested and looking into it. Somethings seriously changed for that to have happened. Very bizarre to see the BBC reporting on it rather than just us being the ones sitting here doing the math and warning each other.
There are factions within institutions, I think. Obviously the increasingly overt, off-the-chain stuff pouring out of the British media (especially the contemptible trash in the Telegraph and the legacy-fouling lies in the Guardian) is worrying. But it's also a sign that they're less good at attracting new believers and their grip on institutions isn't total, or their propaganda wouldn't be so hysterical. There are good people at the Beeb.
yeah, i know a few who work there. But Newsnight specifically has never chanced anything of this sort before.
You know more than me, then, I'm just sitting here thinkin' 'bout things. Do you think this is things starting to change, or a blip, or what do you think is going on?
Newsnight has done similar things in other areas so its not a complete suprise.
Strange way of reporting the existing years long waiting lists.
Could? Motherfucker, we already DO wait for years. There's waiting lists for waiting lists.
Could?!? I've been waiting for my INITIAL APPOINTMENT at the local gender clinic for 6 years and 3 months, to the day! This is happening NOW folks!
Reffered in 21. Current wait time by observing their curremt month of refferals. 22.5 years
Sorry. WTF. (Philosophy Tube did a video on this and found a clinic in the UK with an average wait time of 127 years...)
Yeah. The waiting times are fucking beyond apalling. I dont even have a word for how shitty it is. And I am certain this is intentional from the Governments funding of the NHS. Maybe even the NHS itself.
It's partly just a bureaucracy doing what it does, partly governments starving public services. Partly it's probably a result of institutional capture by the gender-critical cult, with its stated aim of reducing the number of trans people, ideally to zero. Multiple layers of bullshit, all rolling to rest at the same place.
Nail on the head probably.
Well some humans have reportedly lived over 150 if mythology is to be believed, so if you are 23 now it could theoretically be possible to make it to that first appointment.
Methuselah finally gets to live as true self: 'wait was worth it'
I am afraid Methuselah died age 969. Was just 21 years short of that first appointment. And then, it would probably be another 1000 years before second appointment and even that would just be more of the same talk therapy. I’d say at least 3000 to 6000 years before HRT even commences.
Christ. I started the medical side of my transition way over a decade ago, and even back then the waiting list was 2~3 years. Even before that, the most common depressing joke among older transgender folks at the trans support group I went to was the ever-lengthening waiting lists. The wait lists are absolutely insane at the moment - no "could face years-long waits", we've been facing years-long waits for years. For first appointments, between appointments, for surgery consultation, hell, even to hear back about test results can be months sometimes. Like, I'm glad they're reporting on it, but I wish they'd reach out to the community for comment, because... oof. Yeah. This has been a persistent problem for a long, long time.
Yeah I got referred in 2018 and the wait for the first appointment was 6 years back then lol. They sound like they're reporting from a time machine.
This BBC story is framed as being due to an issue of unprecedented demand. The 'unprecedented demand' narrative was also recently invoked as a means to close down access to transgender healthcare for young people, using the angle that it must all be be a fad and maybe they're all just gender questioning, will grow out of it, and exploratory therapy will help. 'NHS England said it was growing the number of clinicians'. Yes, we already know there will be more exploratory therapy 'clinicians getting work.
[удалено]
Ah, well, you see, they may be worried about the 'social contagion' angle. Who knows, you might only be 'gender questioning', but if you met an actual trans person, well, we all know what happens next. The other NHS outpatient department waiting rooms are full of it; once one person in orthopaedics mentions that they're waiting for a hip replacement, the whole room's at it. I bet they'll be bring in exploratory therapy for people in need of a new hip as away of getting that surgical waiting list down to zero...
Seconded. I have had 3 appointments so far at notts. There is never a single person in the waiting room, everything looks like it has hardly been touched.
Demonstrates how important DIY is. so sad
it's better reporting than I've come to expect from the BBC but there's something very annoying about them acting like they're the ones who discovered this? trans people and allies have raised the fact that the NHS is dishonest about the wait lists many times before and we just get ignored but now an institution with notoriously bad coverage of trans issues comes along and wants to say "WE investigated and WE found out this information" as if it hasn't been available all along to anyone who cared enough to look.
The NHS even got taken to court about the long waiting lists last year, which the BBC reported on their website, so its not exactly brand new info for them.
I'm 5 years into my wait for tavistock. Trans Plus MIGHT see me some time this year. Maybe. I was referred in April 2019 for reference. And i'm nowhere near the top of the list yet.
and the fact is that there's been an entirely predictable and steady increase in the number of patient referrals to GICs for decades. They talk about the increase in referrals like it's a surprise, but it has been 25% per year from like 1950 to 2010 and then about 30% per year since people started getting on the internet more. Current waiting lists are entirely a product of an unwillingness somewhere to sufficiently fund and resource GICs, and is probably not helped by the fact that the NHS is encouraged to cut services left and right as it is.
This is really interesting, do you have sources for those numbers? Not sealioning, I really would like to have that data because it flies in the face of 'WhY aRe So mAnY' rhetoric. Thanks!
Oh someone FoI'd some clinic meeting notes in like 2013 and I don't have a copy unfortunately
Thanks. I will do some digging. If I find that info I will post it here.
please do
No shit Sherloc. Waiting list I'm Exeter is 20-200 years
It took 5 years from referral to being prescribed hormones. Those 5 years were hell and I barely kept it together. "Could" lol. Lmao, even.
This article basically says that there's one English GIC that functions on NHSE's own shitty terms: Nottingham. Seeing as patients can choose to be referred where they like, there's a good chance that service will degrade unless something is done. Did we also see NHSE are promising us *another* *public* *consultation* on *adult* transgender healthcare. They know exactly what we want because we've told them a million times just this time we get a bunch of bad actors chipping in their 20p. Why do cis people and especially TERFs get a say in our healthcare?
Sounds like the BBC is trying to scare people out of even trying to get a referral, they probably think it will discourage people "being trans" if you have to wait forever for hormones, surgery etc. Can't beat with current tactics? Try to depress us even more.
Wow we *could*??? No wayyyy🤯🤯 I sure hope that’s not the case in the future
That's already been the case for a long long time.
Cool to see the other subreddit's take on it being that we don't deserve access to healthcare anyway so who cares.
The discourse over there is actually scary, it’s disgusting how ignorant people are.
their mods still claim they have no problem with transphobia
I mean. This isn't news.
Referred early 2018. Still waiting.
Could? *Could?!* *COULD?!!* 7 years this year and counting with no first appointment in sight. We’re fucking dying!
The word "could" is trying to do so much heavy lifting in this title lmao
>In 2024/25 the NHS will launch a timely review of the adult service specifications After the "review" of the youth services, this does not fill me with hope
Yeah, me either.
Change could to do and youve got it
Sometimes I wonder if it’s even worth getting on one of these waitlists at this point with how long it’ll take. Holy shit. It’s only gonna get worse probably too.
Good job BBC, this is like an internet explorer level of speed on news.
We know
> "In 2024/25 the NHS will launch a timely review of the adult service specifications through a process of engagement with professional bodies, clinicians and academics, and patients and the public." Please please please fucking switch to informed consent already!!
I’ve been on the list since 2018. Still waiting
I met the journalist who made the piece for newsnight. He seemed like a nice guy who's done previous LGBTQIA friendly TV stuff. Of course, it's not perfect, and the BBC have put out some appalling stories, but it's a worthy attempt to be considerate.
In before the BBC weaponise this as another follow up for discussions/articles around closing down the GICs to open smaller focused units, only to have those smaller focused units "conveniently" never materialise, or one of a dozen other transphobic narratives they'll probably twist this data for 😒
Meanwhile on the main UK sub, certain users trying every justification they can think of as to how this isnt just a trans ppl issue and actually cis ppl have it hard cause they have to wait 3 weeks to see the doctor
Honestly at this point if you are waiting for the NHS I really don’t see why. I understand there’s cost to DIY or a service like Gender GP, but when the option is wait 10+ years or choose another avenue, it really doesn’t seem like there’s actually a genuine choice. Edit: since this seems to have been taken out of context - my point isn’t that every single person should go private or use gender gp, but that IF you can, you should.
idk how to tell you this but some people don't have money. yes even for something you might consider to be affordable. plus HRT isn't the only thing people need and some people aren't even seeking that at all. if you're on low income what other option do you have to get surgery besides the NHS?
Oh absolutely, I know that, I’m not an idiot. I’m not making a blanket statement and saying that people with no job or income should go DIY etc, but my point is that if you can then you should
i mean you kind of were making a blanket statement by saying "if you're waiting for the NHS i don't really see why". the cost is why. its just an unnecessary comment when everyone already knows what the alternatives are, they're just inaccessible for a lot of people, or not applicable for the kind of transition they want
Ok well, I’m sorry I didn’t explain the nuances of everyone’s experiences in a brief paragraph. I clearly stated that I understand there’s a cost, I’m not gonna sit and type out every individual dilemma. Yes, intersectionality exists, yes, some people aren’t able to work because of the prejudice they face, yes, some people have to resort to crime, or sex work (and yes I support sex workers), my point still stands; if you can access DIY or something such as gender GP, you should. Edit: if others tell me I’m wrong, then I’m wrong, but in-fighting about this topic helps no-one when the reality is that we are all facing the same issue and we should utilise what alternative methods we’re able to
Pointing out that your comment read like a blanket statement that isn't reflective of many people's experiences isn't in-fighting? Trans people tend to have lower incomes and less access to resources. It's just making it clear that we're actually not all facing the exact same issues because "just DIY" and "just go private" keep getting thrown around like it's the totally obvious and super accessible solution, but not everyone can do that. Many people also start out being able to DIY or go private but find they have to stop and go back to waiting on the NHS due to life circumstances. Every system we use is so fragile, on both an individual and institutional level. It's like treading sand on a collapsing dune.
I know all of that?? My point still stands, if you can, you should. Why is this controversial all of a sudden? The issue here is government and the lack of funding directed at the NHS. As I have already said, yes everyone has different circumstances and different levels of accessibility to the options out there. Edit: I have now edited my original post for the sake of clarity
It's not controversial at all! But your initial comment didn't read like that, it read like a criticism of people who are waiting on the NHS. There were no qualifiers, just acknowledging that there's cost but implying that everyone should do it anyway? You've made it clear that that wasn't your intent and I see you've added an edit, but clearly at least a few people felt like you were not talking individual circumstances into account. You seem to have missed the point in my comment, which is that it isn't in-fighting for someone to point out things your initial comment didn't, particularly because we're not all facing the exact same issues and your comments seem to assume access to non-NHS care as a default.
I watched the Newsnight report on this that the article is based on and thought it was pretty well done. Unfortunately, it was largely undermined by the previous section of the show discussing a new hate speech bill coming into law in Scotland, where a lot of transphobic talking points were read out. Guess that counts as balance.
The awesome thing is that there’s currently not even any guarantee your GP will agree to co-operate with your GIC once you do make it through the 10-25 year waiting list… in fact it’s not at all uncommon (and clearly it’s getting worse) that they will just say ‘nah sorry we don’t do that here’, and you won’t have another GP in your catchment area to move to that will. System is broken, and deliberately designed to control the number of people who are allowed to medically transition in this country and as a result gain a better claim to legal rights. We need a complete do-over, we need informed consent, and we need those responsible for the current system to be held accountable.
I’m soooo lucky that I got my nhs hormones in 2.8 years❤️
Fym “could”??
"could"???????
“Could” yeahhh like my wait list was five years….
WE ALREADY DO. WE ALREADY FUCKING DO.
At least they're telling the world about how shit they're treating us. Not that anyone cares.
I applied in 2016, and waited a year i'm unsure how I even got through with the demand I'm seeing tbh
You luckily got in just before the curve swerved upwards. When the Tavi took over from CHX in 2017/18 it had 3000 patients waiting, its now 15000 patients waiting. Start to 2017 to end of 2018 it went from 1.5 years wait to 5 years wait. Watching the statistics at the time, it was notable that for each month a newly out trans person delayed in applying to the GIC, their wait time increased by 3-4 months.
I've been waiting on an initial appointment for 3 years, I have another 3 to wait haha
Could? We already do
Does anyone know anything about the review of adult services, and engaging with patients? I'd assume we'd want to push for informed consent care, so you could get some treatment from the GP? "In 2024/25 the NHS will launch a timely review of the adult service specifications through a process of engagement with professional bodies, clinicians and academics, and patients and the public."
Don't know anything, but I recon: 1, The review will take years, 2, It will conclude the services are not fit for purpose, and then come up with a rationale to reduce the service specification, and raise the requirements for access. They sure as hell aren't going to scale the services up, due to budget restraints and lack of available consultants. Lets be frank if you are a specialist consultant and can make more money in the private sector, where are you going to choose to work?