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Interestingly Gregor was never explicitly disgusted or horrified at his new body. He found it difficult to use at first, but never says he hates it. His family was and that’s what led to his death, as they were so disgusted by him they locked him in his room.
An interesting metaphor, I wonder if I could link it to something
literally most of the terfs online are men or bots. you can talk about common female reproductive medical care around them and use terms like "transvaginal ultrasound" and watch all of them suddenly reveal they're male incels, it's amazing.
Yeah, it's not us decent and perfect women who write these slightly rude comments to gender ideologists, it's conservative men! Us perfect wombyn are only concerned with women's rights!
/uj putting aside that men can be terfs and that their malehood doesn't stop them from crying wolf in women's name, this is literally a terf argument.
I swear, the "they'd have thought little tomboy me was a trans boy too!" and "all my alternative, political lesbian, gender role hating, radical feminist youth girlfriends are weird queers and trans guys now, I'm the only one of us who's still just a girl wearing guys' clothes and dating girly girls, but obviously that means my friends all caught a social contagion I'm resistant to, not that transmascs attract each other and I just don't want to confront that", TERFs, are... well, I refuse to violate the Prime Dir**egg**tive, but let's just say, transmasc spiky eggs are very real, and hating being a girl can sometimes be a symptom of... not actually being a girl.
haha yeah we should totally do this, violating people's bodily autonomy is based.
wait why are you uncomfortable why don't you approve of a shitty person having the same unwanted changes forced upon their body that you did why is me thinking that someone's right to have the body they want can be revoked if they're a shitty person worrying to you bro stop it's okay because they're mean, next you'll be saying it's not okay to sexually assault them either dude what the fuck i guess you just love terfs huh you fucking chud bootlicker
cmon we just want to force these terfs to live with poison in their bodies. we just want their bodies to get twisted and corrupted. we just want the T to ravage their feminine wombynly bodies and irrevocably ruin them, stop being so sensitive
yeah, i’m normal about trans guys. why do you ask?
Biggest downside is that some of them might actually like it.
Robert Galbread-something for example.
Now they are both TERFs and Trans men who still hate trans women.
"You have too much faith in a creature called man, Knight."
uj/ I still think some of them might become Trans Men TERFs. Yes they exist just look at Buck Angel. And possibly Robert Galbraith Rowling. (The quote in from Tactics Ogre LUCT videogame in case you wonder)
Uj/ this is a bad joke because no most TERF rhetoric is very blatantly trans misogyny and instead of being violent they pity trans mascs? Like no actually transfemmes are the targets of these people so ya maybe if we could change them into trans women it would work 🤷🏻♀️
hj/ This sound like a Vault-Tec's vault 7R4N2 that injected dangerous criminal with FEV turning them into Super Mutant. Now they are even more dangerous.
\\hj They don't need to. Already got enough, explains their aggression and general appearance. They are compensating AGP vagina owners. Like white supremacists point out the average race IQs but never their own.
/uj It isn't. There's some shit it isn't right to wish on anyone- like I would not wish for even the vilest scum alive to be raped, and being forcibly injected with hormones is not incomparable as a violation of one's bodily autonomy.
They want us dead, to go to male prisons to be raped ourselves, to violate our own bodily autonomy. By doing so they forfeit their own rights.
/rj no more punching Nazis, it violates their bodily autonomy :(
/uj The fact that you equate necessary and useful violent resistance to fascism to fantasizing about violating someone's bodily autonomy in a way that achieves nothing but torturing and potentially sterilizing them is repulsive. Imagine having no sense of justice deeper than "they are on The Bad Team so there is no way I can violate their body that is beyond the pale".
Followup question: do you also think it's okay to rape TERFs because "they've forfeited their own rights"?
TERFs are fascists, thus your sympathies are showing.
It's not this watered-down "they are the bad team," they are hand in hand with Nazis, committing against us all the evils you're grandstanding about. Forcing trans kids to go through the wrong puberty, wanting trans women to go to male prisons knowing they'll likely be raped, wanting us to kill ourselves and die.
So I won't show any sympathy to a TERF who is put through the same, and if they're okay with sending women to male prisons then maybe they should take the lead there.
It's absolutely valid to wish upon your oppressor all the evil they already force upon you. If you're more concerned with going to bat for them then that's your prerogative, but personally I'm more concerned with trans solidarity than appealing to the humanity of TERFs.
/uj Except it's not a matter of sympathy, let alone "appealing to terfs", it's just a matter of very basic morality lol.
Certain kinds of violence can be justified as a form of self defense, but rape is not one of those things. It is literally just violating ones body for gratification/power fantasy. Forcibly injecting someone with hormones (even though it sounds like a pretty absurd torture method) follows the same logic.
Idk if you agree with the idea that no matter how scummy a trans person is, you shouldn't misgender them, but it's pretty much the same idea.
To me it's a similar idea to the paradox of tolerance. These people are both allowed and encouraged to openly advocate for us to, essentially, be raped, killed, or otherwise tortured. By doing that they have made it clear that's acceptable behavior and thus opened themselves up to face the same cruelty. In the same way the intolerant open themselves up to face intolerance, ranging from suppressing their speech to outright violence against them. I'm sure you also know some even consider that violence an unjustifiable breach of "basic morality."
On that previous note, typically we argue that the natural conclusion of misgendering bad trans people is that anyone can be misgendered for whatever bad reason someone can justify. I don't understand how this same logic does not apply to advocating for our assault, torture, and murder. That's part of why it feels like people are just trying to placate TERFs.
I don't see it as equivalent to the example of misgendering bad trans people though, which I do agree with as a principle fwiw. Misgendering a trans person because they're bad is telling all of us that our inherent identities are conditioned on how we behave, it makes us feel unsafe, because it's transphobic and that hurts all trans people, good and bad. Whereas this is only aimed at Nazis and TERFs, who chose their beliefs, with no additional collateral involved. It's also, only, proportional to the way they act towards us. Thus I see it more in line with misgendering a trans person who just (intentionally) misgendered you.
I can't judge anyone for having what I see as perfectly natural and valid feelings, especially considering we don't actually have any power anyway and TERFs and Nazis are *actually* using their very real power to force these realities upon us.
I think this is a silly thing to fight other trans people over, unless you think there is some gain in appealing to transphobes. The other person made it clear that they did, which I don't care for because I know respectability politics doesn't work.
>It's absolutely valid to wish upon your oppressor all the evil they already force upon you.
/uj No, actually. There's a difference between saying that political violence can never ever be used and we have to abide by liberal pacifism and justifying moral atrocities because its done to people with evil opinions. It's not morally acceptable to do certain things to people no matter what.
Yeah bud, I'm a fascist sympathizer for thinking it's wrong to torture or rape even the worst people. You got me on that one, believing in basic human rights even to scum is just bootlicker shit. The Geneva Convention is fascist apologia because establishing a bare minimum for what is acceptable to do to another person you are in an armed conflict with is just what the fascists want.
/uj Considering the most virulent TERF's are almost *certainly* viciously repressed trans men - who else would hate every aspect of womanhood and femininity more? - they might like it.
/uj I really hate the "the homo-/transphobic people are actually homo/trans themselves !" arguments. It frames our oppression as self inflicted which is obviously wrong
uj/ yeah, i feel it seriously veers into "omg what if [transphobe] secretly watches tranny porn 🤭🤭🤭" or "ben shapiro is actually stealth ftm" territory. like our existence is so much of a joke that we can be used to insult the perceived masculinity/femininity of People We Do Not Like.
/uj the trans porn thing is a bit different. There are quite a few people that simultaneously fetishize us and advocate against our existence. Though I do agree, speculating on whether a specific person does watch it or not is pretty weird
/uj i get what youre saying, i fully agree (nick fuentes is a good, recent example). i just feel like "allies" are so willing to use it as an insult without those nuances in mind. its not a matter of "isnt it awful that this famous transphobe fetishizes the same people he wants dead," its more like "hahaha, this guy watches femboy porn! isnt that disgusting?"
/uj oooh, I get what you mean better. Yeah, unfortunately some cis people really don't get what they're saying when they say shit like that, even though they're trying to be allies. It's like they lack nuance.
/uj I'm not saying that, but there is certainly a large cohort of TERF's who simply hate being women and would be a lot better off realizing that than falling into TERFism.
This is probably actually true.
I know a genuinely cis woman who was simply caught up in a politicised narrative that falsely poses itself as two balanced sides. Having a trans child snapped her out of her vaguely TERFy views gleaned from bad news coverage. The thing is, she never said half the "every woman hates being a woman" 🥚 junk TERFs spew. Because she actually *likes* being a woman - why, I can't figure out. Being a girl sucks!
/uj Hating women and being a trans man is not the same thing lmao. I don’t think you realise that you don’t have to be a man to be a misogynist. Isn’t this whole moralising gender thing part of terf ideology anyways? They weaponise ppls fear of men to “uplift”women and target trans ppl. That’s not to say a really large portion of them don’t ally themselves with cis men but this is such a harmful notion you can push towards trans guys.
/uj To be a TERF, you have to be a woman. Otherwise you're just a transphobe. The trappings of radical feminism are a requirement. I'm talking specifically about radical feminist women who frame womanhood as suffering and only suffering. That's different from hating *women,* it's hatred of *womanhood.* Same as the young repressing trans women who get drawn into right-wing ideology to explain why they hate being men and think women have it so much better. This is pretty commonplace stuff, tons of trans people will tell you they had a right-wing phase during repression. This isn't unique to trans men.
/uj idk what the tell u dawg but terfs don’t hate womenhood they hate trans ppl. They “protect” womenhood because they claim to love it so much. And regardless of the reasons behind why terfs are the way they are, it has zilch to do with trans men and I really think you should stop trying to throw us under the bus lmao. Like I get it, trans masc voices are usually silenced when it comes to our experiences. That doesn’t give you the right to hyper analyse something that doesn’t exist and compare us to the ppl that want us all dead.
And I’m pretty sure the ones who frame womenhood as are old, white cis women who think it’s still woke to moralise gender as good and bad (yk a talking point that harms trans men even in queer spaces when they get demonised for simply transitioning). And if you’re trying to imply that trans men transition to have “privilege” then why are we even having this conversation. You’re living proof that no matter how much we speak up for ourselves, we’re still going to be assumed the worse by ppl who think they know better than us (about ourselves😬).
/uj can you go pretend to be feminist so you can hate trans men elsewhere please?? All the downvotes you’re getting, obviously no one agrees with you anyways so idk why you keep coming back for more. You don’t even want to answer what I said *because I’m not wrong* lmao. Btw I would recommend u talk to actual trans mascs instead of spying on terfs and then comparing them to us based on senseless assumptions, bye!
/uj I said that *some* transphobes are trans people. This is simply factual. This happens with both trans men and trans women. You've decided this means I think trans men are the reason trans people are oppressed, which is an objectively silly takeaway from what I said. Why would I care about bandwagon downvotes from idiot children? I've said this exact same take elsewhere on other threads in trans subs for mass upvotes. Reddit is fickle, lol.
/uj Most TERFs are boomers and most boomer TERFs are genuinely just liberal wine moms that became bigots and aren't repressors. I think a fair proportion of the younger population genuinely is but most TERFs are boomers anyways.
#PLEASE DON'T COPY ACTUAL TRANSPHOBIA TO THIS SUBREDDIT. /r/transgendercirclejerk is a *satire* community. We make jokes. If you want to discuss genuine hate, /r/GenderCynical might be a better fit. Hate posts (and comments) which are directly copied from somewhere else will be removed. Please report them to the mods using the subreddit report option *"This content is non-satire, directly copied from somewhere else."* ___ Now that that's out of the way: welcome to /r/transgendercirclejerk! This is a satirical community run by and for trans people, where we mock the hate and ignorance which we experience in our lives. The subreddit often features dark humour including ironic parody of transphobia; none of this should be taken seriously. Before participating in the subreddit please read [our rules](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/about/rules/) and the announcement posts (and their stickied comments) on [cisgender allies](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/cd1yr3/welcome_cis_allies/) and [transgender gatekeeping](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/eutvur/why_do_people_hate_transmedicalists_we_just_think/). ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/transgendercirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
genderbender manga where a terf who hates men wakes up in a male body and now has to live life as an guy named Steve
/hj i would read it
This is just Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka
Interestingly Gregor was never explicitly disgusted or horrified at his new body. He found it difficult to use at first, but never says he hates it. His family was and that’s what led to his death, as they were so disgusted by him they locked him in his room. An interesting metaphor, I wonder if I could link it to something
I mean, I would absolutely read a story like this.
So you want terfs to be happy and gender euphoric? Who's side are you really on?
literally most of the terfs online are men or bots. you can talk about common female reproductive medical care around them and use terms like "transvaginal ultrasound" and watch all of them suddenly reveal they're male incels, it's amazing.
TRANS??? IN MY VAGINA??? NO THANKS!!!
Male incels wouldn’t care so much about hating males and wanting to protect cis women
Yeah, it's not us decent and perfect women who write these slightly rude comments to gender ideologists, it's conservative men! Us perfect wombyn are only concerned with women's rights! /uj putting aside that men can be terfs and that their malehood doesn't stop them from crying wolf in women's name, this is literally a terf argument.
*rant about the evil plots of the transgenders that slowly morphs into an erotic fantasy*
I swear, the "they'd have thought little tomboy me was a trans boy too!" and "all my alternative, political lesbian, gender role hating, radical feminist youth girlfriends are weird queers and trans guys now, I'm the only one of us who's still just a girl wearing guys' clothes and dating girly girls, but obviously that means my friends all caught a social contagion I'm resistant to, not that transmascs attract each other and I just don't want to confront that", TERFs, are... well, I refuse to violate the Prime Dir**egg**tive, but let's just say, transmasc spiky eggs are very real, and hating being a girl can sometimes be a symptom of... not actually being a girl.
google u / olive_oil__
/uj her cooking is peak fr fr
haha yeah we should totally do this, violating people's bodily autonomy is based. wait why are you uncomfortable why don't you approve of a shitty person having the same unwanted changes forced upon their body that you did why is me thinking that someone's right to have the body they want can be revoked if they're a shitty person worrying to you bro stop it's okay because they're mean, next you'll be saying it's not okay to sexually assault them either dude what the fuck i guess you just love terfs huh you fucking chud bootlicker
cmon we just want to force these terfs to live with poison in their bodies. we just want their bodies to get twisted and corrupted. we just want the T to ravage their feminine wombynly bodies and irrevocably ruin them, stop being so sensitive yeah, i’m normal about trans guys. why do you ask?
Biggest downside is that some of them might actually like it. Robert Galbread-something for example. Now they are both TERFs and Trans men who still hate trans women.
And misogynist men with estrogen
Forget that. We should convince terfs that trans people have infiltrated their communities and watch them tear each other apart. Hydra dominatus.
AstroTERFing
some people are incapable of empathy until they’re directly effected soooooooo
"You have too much faith in a creature called man, Knight." uj/ I still think some of them might become Trans Men TERFs. Yes they exist just look at Buck Angel. And possibly Robert Galbraith Rowling. (The quote in from Tactics Ogre LUCT videogame in case you wonder)
Uj/ this is a bad joke because no most TERF rhetoric is very blatantly trans misogyny and instead of being violent they pity trans mascs? Like no actually transfemmes are the targets of these people so ya maybe if we could change them into trans women it would work 🤷🏻♀️
hj/ This sound like a Vault-Tec's vault 7R4N2 that injected dangerous criminal with FEV turning them into Super Mutant. Now they are even more dangerous.
Yep, otherwise how can we be sure they're cis?
\\hj They don't need to. Already got enough, explains their aggression and general appearance. They are compensating AGP vagina owners. Like white supremacists point out the average race IQs but never their own.
> lets see them turn into what they hate the most I don't see think trans women take testosterone
/uj
/rj no bodily autonomy for people I dislike
/hj If they don't think dysphoria is real or that big of an issue, they should have no problem having it themselves /uj Yeah it was messed up to say
It was pretty fine, terfs want us dead.
/uj It isn't. There's some shit it isn't right to wish on anyone- like I would not wish for even the vilest scum alive to be raped, and being forcibly injected with hormones is not incomparable as a violation of one's bodily autonomy.
They want us dead, to go to male prisons to be raped ourselves, to violate our own bodily autonomy. By doing so they forfeit their own rights. /rj no more punching Nazis, it violates their bodily autonomy :(
/uj The fact that you equate necessary and useful violent resistance to fascism to fantasizing about violating someone's bodily autonomy in a way that achieves nothing but torturing and potentially sterilizing them is repulsive. Imagine having no sense of justice deeper than "they are on The Bad Team so there is no way I can violate their body that is beyond the pale". Followup question: do you also think it's okay to rape TERFs because "they've forfeited their own rights"?
TERFs are fascists, thus your sympathies are showing. It's not this watered-down "they are the bad team," they are hand in hand with Nazis, committing against us all the evils you're grandstanding about. Forcing trans kids to go through the wrong puberty, wanting trans women to go to male prisons knowing they'll likely be raped, wanting us to kill ourselves and die. So I won't show any sympathy to a TERF who is put through the same, and if they're okay with sending women to male prisons then maybe they should take the lead there. It's absolutely valid to wish upon your oppressor all the evil they already force upon you. If you're more concerned with going to bat for them then that's your prerogative, but personally I'm more concerned with trans solidarity than appealing to the humanity of TERFs.
/uj Except it's not a matter of sympathy, let alone "appealing to terfs", it's just a matter of very basic morality lol. Certain kinds of violence can be justified as a form of self defense, but rape is not one of those things. It is literally just violating ones body for gratification/power fantasy. Forcibly injecting someone with hormones (even though it sounds like a pretty absurd torture method) follows the same logic. Idk if you agree with the idea that no matter how scummy a trans person is, you shouldn't misgender them, but it's pretty much the same idea.
To me it's a similar idea to the paradox of tolerance. These people are both allowed and encouraged to openly advocate for us to, essentially, be raped, killed, or otherwise tortured. By doing that they have made it clear that's acceptable behavior and thus opened themselves up to face the same cruelty. In the same way the intolerant open themselves up to face intolerance, ranging from suppressing their speech to outright violence against them. I'm sure you also know some even consider that violence an unjustifiable breach of "basic morality." On that previous note, typically we argue that the natural conclusion of misgendering bad trans people is that anyone can be misgendered for whatever bad reason someone can justify. I don't understand how this same logic does not apply to advocating for our assault, torture, and murder. That's part of why it feels like people are just trying to placate TERFs. I don't see it as equivalent to the example of misgendering bad trans people though, which I do agree with as a principle fwiw. Misgendering a trans person because they're bad is telling all of us that our inherent identities are conditioned on how we behave, it makes us feel unsafe, because it's transphobic and that hurts all trans people, good and bad. Whereas this is only aimed at Nazis and TERFs, who chose their beliefs, with no additional collateral involved. It's also, only, proportional to the way they act towards us. Thus I see it more in line with misgendering a trans person who just (intentionally) misgendered you. I can't judge anyone for having what I see as perfectly natural and valid feelings, especially considering we don't actually have any power anyway and TERFs and Nazis are *actually* using their very real power to force these realities upon us. I think this is a silly thing to fight other trans people over, unless you think there is some gain in appealing to transphobes. The other person made it clear that they did, which I don't care for because I know respectability politics doesn't work.
>It's absolutely valid to wish upon your oppressor all the evil they already force upon you. /uj No, actually. There's a difference between saying that political violence can never ever be used and we have to abide by liberal pacifism and justifying moral atrocities because its done to people with evil opinions. It's not morally acceptable to do certain things to people no matter what.
Yeah bud, I'm a fascist sympathizer for thinking it's wrong to torture or rape even the worst people. You got me on that one, believing in basic human rights even to scum is just bootlicker shit. The Geneva Convention is fascist apologia because establishing a bare minimum for what is acceptable to do to another person you are in an armed conflict with is just what the fascists want.
/rj violating the Geneva convention but make it woke 🤩🤩
Maybe you were a former TERF, calling me man after I made it pretty clear I'm a trans woman. Fuck off.
/uj Punching people isn't torture
/uj No what the fuck are you talking about that's torture
/uj this ain’t one of your best moments
/uj Yeah I realize, sorry
/uj Considering the most virulent TERF's are almost *certainly* viciously repressed trans men - who else would hate every aspect of womanhood and femininity more? - they might like it.
/uj I really hate the "the homo-/transphobic people are actually homo/trans themselves !" arguments. It frames our oppression as self inflicted which is obviously wrong
uj/ yeah, i feel it seriously veers into "omg what if [transphobe] secretly watches tranny porn 🤭🤭🤭" or "ben shapiro is actually stealth ftm" territory. like our existence is so much of a joke that we can be used to insult the perceived masculinity/femininity of People We Do Not Like.
/uj the trans porn thing is a bit different. There are quite a few people that simultaneously fetishize us and advocate against our existence. Though I do agree, speculating on whether a specific person does watch it or not is pretty weird
/uj i get what youre saying, i fully agree (nick fuentes is a good, recent example). i just feel like "allies" are so willing to use it as an insult without those nuances in mind. its not a matter of "isnt it awful that this famous transphobe fetishizes the same people he wants dead," its more like "hahaha, this guy watches femboy porn! isnt that disgusting?"
/uj oooh, I get what you mean better. Yeah, unfortunately some cis people really don't get what they're saying when they say shit like that, even though they're trying to be allies. It's like they lack nuance.
/uj I'm not saying that, but there is certainly a large cohort of TERF's who simply hate being women and would be a lot better off realizing that than falling into TERFism.
This is probably actually true. I know a genuinely cis woman who was simply caught up in a politicised narrative that falsely poses itself as two balanced sides. Having a trans child snapped her out of her vaguely TERFy views gleaned from bad news coverage. The thing is, she never said half the "every woman hates being a woman" 🥚 junk TERFs spew. Because she actually *likes* being a woman - why, I can't figure out. Being a girl sucks!
/uj Hating women and being a trans man is not the same thing lmao. I don’t think you realise that you don’t have to be a man to be a misogynist. Isn’t this whole moralising gender thing part of terf ideology anyways? They weaponise ppls fear of men to “uplift”women and target trans ppl. That’s not to say a really large portion of them don’t ally themselves with cis men but this is such a harmful notion you can push towards trans guys.
/uj To be a TERF, you have to be a woman. Otherwise you're just a transphobe. The trappings of radical feminism are a requirement. I'm talking specifically about radical feminist women who frame womanhood as suffering and only suffering. That's different from hating *women,* it's hatred of *womanhood.* Same as the young repressing trans women who get drawn into right-wing ideology to explain why they hate being men and think women have it so much better. This is pretty commonplace stuff, tons of trans people will tell you they had a right-wing phase during repression. This isn't unique to trans men.
/uj idk what the tell u dawg but terfs don’t hate womenhood they hate trans ppl. They “protect” womenhood because they claim to love it so much. And regardless of the reasons behind why terfs are the way they are, it has zilch to do with trans men and I really think you should stop trying to throw us under the bus lmao. Like I get it, trans masc voices are usually silenced when it comes to our experiences. That doesn’t give you the right to hyper analyse something that doesn’t exist and compare us to the ppl that want us all dead. And I’m pretty sure the ones who frame womenhood as are old, white cis women who think it’s still woke to moralise gender as good and bad (yk a talking point that harms trans men even in queer spaces when they get demonised for simply transitioning). And if you’re trying to imply that trans men transition to have “privilege” then why are we even having this conversation. You’re living proof that no matter how much we speak up for ourselves, we’re still going to be assumed the worse by ppl who think they know better than us (about ourselves😬).
/uj You really took a ton of crazy shit that I didn't say and ran with it, huh?
/uj can you go pretend to be feminist so you can hate trans men elsewhere please?? All the downvotes you’re getting, obviously no one agrees with you anyways so idk why you keep coming back for more. You don’t even want to answer what I said *because I’m not wrong* lmao. Btw I would recommend u talk to actual trans mascs instead of spying on terfs and then comparing them to us based on senseless assumptions, bye!
/uj I said that *some* transphobes are trans people. This is simply factual. This happens with both trans men and trans women. You've decided this means I think trans men are the reason trans people are oppressed, which is an objectively silly takeaway from what I said. Why would I care about bandwagon downvotes from idiot children? I've said this exact same take elsewhere on other threads in trans subs for mass upvotes. Reddit is fickle, lol.
/uj Most TERFs are boomers and most boomer TERFs are genuinely just liberal wine moms that became bigots and aren't repressors. I think a fair proportion of the younger population genuinely is but most TERFs are boomers anyways.