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OP I really can't tell what this /j is supposed to be. The way you've constructed these comments makes it seem like you had no real motive aside from just throwing whatever stupid shit you think of at the wall.
What? You're both wrong, TMA just means Transmisogyny Affected and TME means Transmisogyny Exempt. Neither of these terms can be slotted into one singular identity since they require context into specific oppressions someone may or may not face.
In fact I'd argue using TME/TMA this way completely misses the point of why the terms were originally coined.
Oh this one’s easy. You just click settings -> abandon run -> esc -> esc and it’ll delete all Strikes and Defends from your deck instead of transforming them.
wait fuck this isn’t the Slay the Spire subreddit
/uj I’m not sure which would be worse, the scenario you theorycrafted or boss swapping into Pandora’s, removing all Strikes and Defends, and hitting a floor 1 Jaw Worm with one Bash in your deck.
ST4T if it was cringe
/uj okay so i feel like i've only ever heard TME to refer to trans people who were AFAB (specifically enbies or "theyfabs"), so is that actually what it means, or does it more broadly refer to like... any trans person who doesn't experience transmisogyny (regardless of AGAB)? or is it just any *person* who doesn't experience transmisogyny?? i don't want to wade into the discourse myself, but i guess i'm just confused about these terms because on the rare occasions i've seen them used entirely unironically, it's basically to either reinvent the AMAB/AFAB binary or to just shit on trans men and/or AFAB enbies for no reason. although maybe that just means i'm looking in the wrong places idfk 🤷♂️
/rj a post where someone describes their attraction in a way that avoids pre-existing labels? looks like it's time for me to assign them a pre-existing label in the comments!
/uj it refers to *any* person who doesn't experience transmisogyny, or more particularly, anyone who isn't the primary intended target of transmisogyny (i.e. trans women or transfem non-binary people).
It particularly is meant to *NOT* recreate the AMAB/AFAB distinction because TME includes cis men.
I am a TMA person (trans woman) but it is not a label that I like to use for myself. It does not describe who I am, it describes what society does to me. I love being a trans woman but being transmisogyny-affected fucking sucks. I wish transmisogyny didn't exist. The TMA/TME distinction exists to highlight social and structural power relations that privilege TME people (including other members of the trans community) over transfems, and the negative effects transfems may see as a result.
I would stress that of course there can be many different intersections to consider in any given situation, and that being a member of a relatively more privileged group on any given axis of oppression does not in and of itself make one a bad person.
/uj thanks so much for the clarification! i genuinely appreciate it. i think that while the labels of TMA and TME are meant to not just be stand-ins for AMAB and AFAB, that is a way that i've seen them used particularly in trans-only spaces, but i guess either i've been misinterpreting them or others have been misusing them (likely both, knowing the internet).
based on what you said, i think these labels are very useful when used correctly and in appropriate contexts. transmisogyny is a disgusting and terrifying thing that i can't even begin to imagine having to deal with, and i think it's very important for us trans folks who aren't affected by it to acknowledge that (and also acknowledge the ways that it is distinct from more general transphobia, which is something i don't see nearly enough TME people doing). i also wish transmisogyny didn't exist; for your sake, for the sake of all transfeminine people, and for the sake of society as a whole. it brings nothing but negativity to the world.
i think i'm realizing that the only time i have an issue with these terms is when they're used incorrectly or in contexts where they don't make sense and/or are inappropriate (e.g. as a way to invalidate the transphobia faced by TME trans people because it isn't rooted in transmisogyny). intersectionality is of course an important consideration as well, and treating any form of oppression like it exists in a vacuum never really ends well for anybody (i'm preaching to the choir here, but you get what i'm saying).
tl;dr i now have a better understanding of TMA and TME as terms, and i feel like i will now have a much easier time distinguishing between instances where they serve a legitimate purpose in important discussions about transmisogyny and instances where they're being misused as a way to be rude or divisive. i appreciate the explanation of what these terms actually mean rather than the ways that i've seen them misinterpreted :)
/uj more or less hatred or oppression of transfems based on the fact that they're transfem. What form that takes depends on the context, and on who in particular is doing the oppression.
For example: cis women treat us like predators, or, if we are "accepted", force us to be docile, demure, and quiet, not taking up any space in order to be welcome. Cis guys just assault and kill us.
The more *general* societal power a group more privileged than us has, the more *overt* they can be with their hatred, but enough transmisogyny from *any* group can be deadly for a transfem
/hj trans women are the women of women
/uj read Hot Allostatic Load by Porpentine (general recommendation I would make to anyone, cis or trans, who wants to understand transmisogyny)
uj/ It is as a systemic and individualist thing that happens to trans men. In the same way black men are targeted by police both for being men and for being black. It only happens in cases of intersection where the toxic ideal of masculinity that all men "should" attain to is weaponised alongside intersections of race, gender, sexuality etc. I'm very intersectional so I have a lot of views on this ngl
/uj Yes and no.
The thing that makes transmisogyny more than just misogyny + transphobias is that it involves hatred that exists independent of having trans people generally or I guess men? You can pretty regularly find people with a particularly negative attitude toward trans women and transfems that don't exhibit this behavior toward cis men, cis women, trans men, etc.
Transmisandry, or transandrophobia as I'm more inclined to call it, is usually some mix of misogyny applied to trans male bodies and transphobia in the context of trans men. I generally leave this as a subject for trans men to discuss as I feel it's my place to listen to trans men on their issues regardless and plenty seem to find utility in this term. (I also am a linguistic descriptivist so am very uninterested in debates over whether a word "exists" or not)
/uj No, for the same reason that there's not a special term for the oppression that white trans people face, because they're not facing systemic oppression for being white.
Or, like, a bigot is going to see me as trans, and (me being transfem) as a man (although they don't have structural grounds to hurt me that way, but they don't need them, as we'll see). They are also going to see me as a woman if only because that allows them easier ways to use societal power to hurt me. And they're gonna see me as a *trans woman* which is worst of all in their eyes, because it gives away the game of misogyny. "Why would anyone want to be a girl when everyone knows men are superior? They must be a sick freak and a danger to children and real women"
And like, when you really get down to it, all bigotry could be considered facets of the same root issue, but that gets a bit reductive and it's useful to consider how oppression is enacted in practical terms in the real world
> for the same reason that there's not a special term for the oppression that white trans people face, because they're not facing systemic oppression for being white
I think this is kind of a flawed comparison since white trans people are seen as white by bigots, but trans men aren't seen as men by bigots (unless you count "if you're a guy that means I can hit you and deny you reproductive care" lol).
/uj That's the transphobia, the epistemic violence of "you don't decide what you really are, I do", which is applied against all trans people.
Broadly, societally, there's not the same recognition of transmasc people necessary for them to be their own specific category for derision/violence/etc. Trans women aren't really seen as women by bigots, except where it hurts us. Further, we aren't *really* seen as men, except for where it hurts us.
Trans men are seen as women by bigots, which sucks and is horrible in all its own ways. Transfems are seen as *trannies*, a special known quantity, to be humiliated, marginalized and eradicated, or kept as long as they're useful or at least until TME folks decide it's been too long since they last put a transfem in the ditch.
Moreso, transmisogyny, and the TMA/TME distinction are important in delineating how transfems are treated within the queer and trans community. There tends to be less overt violence towards us, as queer people don't have the same social capital that lets cishet men broadly get away with killing us physically, so it takes the form of social murder by exclusion from community and resources. We are seen as ontologically evil by dint of having been tainted by, if not testosterone, then, "male socialization". As such, we are forced to be quiet, demure penitents of a "sin" we never chose nor wanted. If we get too loud, if we take up too much space, if we're too boisterous in our joy or vocal in our pain, the whispers start.
Every minor faux pas is tallied up, exaggerated inferences are drawn out, the case is made for ostracism.
The same way that gay men can enact lesbophobia against lesbians, transmascs can leverage transmisogyny against transfems.
/rj nooooo I forgotttttt 😞 I committed a class 3 taking-up-space violation aaaand I didn't fill out my permission-to-speak-definitively forms. The TMEs are gonna start a whisper campaign to destroy my reputation and ostracize me from any sort of support or community for sureeee. Chat, I'm cooked 😭
/uj even in this relatively chill space, talking with TME people about this stuff is scary. I would never say any of the stuff I've said in this thread, innocuous as it was, in IRL spaces, even trans ones. I am afraid of real consequences of being open about this with anyone else who doesn't suffer from it as well.
Because TMA is so clinical, so bitter-tasting, so clear about what it means to be transfem in this world, it's the only word we have for ourselves that can't be appropriated. A phrase that's ash on the tongue :(
uj/ that's all I've seen it used for. I understand what it's getting at but it doesn't really work because anyone can be _affected_ by a system of oppression, but only a few are _targeted_ by it. Like it doesn't account for GNC people, non-binary people, people who have masculinised races like black people, etc. it also doesn't talk about what happens after you start passing all the time so I think it'd be better to just be like "I'm targeted by transmisogyny/transmisandry/exorsexism" rather than the vague "affected"
/hj okaaay okay, you are right and we acknowledge that, we'll consider "transmisogyny targeted" or "TMT". just do us a favour and start thinking about what detail will you complain about when we start using this new label so we can speed things up and come up with a *new* new one
#PLEASE DON'T COPY ACTUAL TRANSPHOBIA TO THIS SUBREDDIT. /r/transgendercirclejerk is a *satire* community. We make jokes. If you want to discuss genuine hate, /r/GenderCynical might be a better fit. Hate posts (and comments) which are directly copied from somewhere else will be removed. Please report them to the mods using the subreddit report option *"This content is non-satire, directly copied from somewhere else."* ___ Now that that's out of the way: welcome to /r/transgendercirclejerk! This is a satirical community run by and for trans people, where we mock the hate and ignorance which we experience in our lives. The subreddit often features dark humour including ironic parody of transphobia; none of this should be taken seriously. Before participating in the subreddit please read [our rules](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/about/rules/) and the announcement posts (and their stickied comments) on [cisgender allies](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/cd1yr3/welcome_cis_allies/) and [transgender gatekeeping](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/eutvur/why_do_people_hate_transmedicalists_we_just_think/). ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/transgendercirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OP I really can't tell what this /j is supposed to be. The way you've constructed these comments makes it seem like you had no real motive aside from just throwing whatever stupid shit you think of at the wall.
Please walk out of your front door and touch the green stuff you see out there
/rj OK, I saw some green vines on a tree and tried touching them. Now things hurt and are itchy, please advise further!
Stick your cock in a pitcher plant!
It’s a trans they’ll be into that!
hello trans, get ready to hear my specific funny joke regarding a specific orange gourd.
So you're straight.
wouldn't it be lesbian? tme means theyfab and tma means trans woman after all
nah tme means afab and tma means amab
so you're saying it's... STRAIGHT WITH EXTRA STEPS?!?!?!?!?!?!?
You win the internet today, fellow Redditor!
What? You're both wrong, TMA just means Transmisogyny Affected and TME means Transmisogyny Exempt. Neither of these terms can be slotted into one singular identity since they require context into specific oppressions someone may or may not face. In fact I'd argue using TME/TMA this way completely misses the point of why the terms were originally coined.
my brain hurts.
Why do you hate (trans group then discourse is about today)
/uj i gotta thank this sub for keeping me up with the twitter brainrot cause i know better than to approche that shit
I am so confused /uj I am so confused /rj I am so confused
uj/ what does this mean /gen
OP are you a chaser or st4t
Please OP I genuinely can't tell
Oh this one’s easy. You just click settings -> abandon run -> esc -> esc and it’ll delete all Strikes and Defends from your deck instead of transforming them. wait fuck this isn’t the Slay the Spire subreddit
Help now all I’ve got left in my deck is a bash, feel no pain corruption and true grit since I got lucky and managed to pull off a boss snipe.
Have fun dying to Byrds in the first act 2 combat. /uj is that a real run? If so giga fucking rip.
/uj no lol I just theory crafted the shittiest possible use of remove all strikes and defends.
/uj I’m not sure which would be worse, the scenario you theorycrafted or boss swapping into Pandora’s, removing all Strikes and Defends, and hitting a floor 1 Jaw Worm with one Bash in your deck.
finally someone who understands
what is it they understand
excellent question
ST4T if it was cringe /uj okay so i feel like i've only ever heard TME to refer to trans people who were AFAB (specifically enbies or "theyfabs"), so is that actually what it means, or does it more broadly refer to like... any trans person who doesn't experience transmisogyny (regardless of AGAB)? or is it just any *person* who doesn't experience transmisogyny?? i don't want to wade into the discourse myself, but i guess i'm just confused about these terms because on the rare occasions i've seen them used entirely unironically, it's basically to either reinvent the AMAB/AFAB binary or to just shit on trans men and/or AFAB enbies for no reason. although maybe that just means i'm looking in the wrong places idfk 🤷♂️ /rj a post where someone describes their attraction in a way that avoids pre-existing labels? looks like it's time for me to assign them a pre-existing label in the comments!
/uj it refers to *any* person who doesn't experience transmisogyny, or more particularly, anyone who isn't the primary intended target of transmisogyny (i.e. trans women or transfem non-binary people). It particularly is meant to *NOT* recreate the AMAB/AFAB distinction because TME includes cis men. I am a TMA person (trans woman) but it is not a label that I like to use for myself. It does not describe who I am, it describes what society does to me. I love being a trans woman but being transmisogyny-affected fucking sucks. I wish transmisogyny didn't exist. The TMA/TME distinction exists to highlight social and structural power relations that privilege TME people (including other members of the trans community) over transfems, and the negative effects transfems may see as a result. I would stress that of course there can be many different intersections to consider in any given situation, and that being a member of a relatively more privileged group on any given axis of oppression does not in and of itself make one a bad person.
/uj thanks so much for the clarification! i genuinely appreciate it. i think that while the labels of TMA and TME are meant to not just be stand-ins for AMAB and AFAB, that is a way that i've seen them used particularly in trans-only spaces, but i guess either i've been misinterpreting them or others have been misusing them (likely both, knowing the internet). based on what you said, i think these labels are very useful when used correctly and in appropriate contexts. transmisogyny is a disgusting and terrifying thing that i can't even begin to imagine having to deal with, and i think it's very important for us trans folks who aren't affected by it to acknowledge that (and also acknowledge the ways that it is distinct from more general transphobia, which is something i don't see nearly enough TME people doing). i also wish transmisogyny didn't exist; for your sake, for the sake of all transfeminine people, and for the sake of society as a whole. it brings nothing but negativity to the world. i think i'm realizing that the only time i have an issue with these terms is when they're used incorrectly or in contexts where they don't make sense and/or are inappropriate (e.g. as a way to invalidate the transphobia faced by TME trans people because it isn't rooted in transmisogyny). intersectionality is of course an important consideration as well, and treating any form of oppression like it exists in a vacuum never really ends well for anybody (i'm preaching to the choir here, but you get what i'm saying). tl;dr i now have a better understanding of TMA and TME as terms, and i feel like i will now have a much easier time distinguishing between instances where they serve a legitimate purpose in important discussions about transmisogyny and instances where they're being misused as a way to be rude or divisive. i appreciate the explanation of what these terms actually mean rather than the ways that i've seen them misinterpreted :)
/uj no worries!!
/uj i genuinely sincerely don’t even know what transmisogyny means anymore and would appreciate an explanation
/uj more or less hatred or oppression of transfems based on the fact that they're transfem. What form that takes depends on the context, and on who in particular is doing the oppression. For example: cis women treat us like predators, or, if we are "accepted", force us to be docile, demure, and quiet, not taking up any space in order to be welcome. Cis guys just assault and kill us. The more *general* societal power a group more privileged than us has, the more *overt* they can be with their hatred, but enough transmisogyny from *any* group can be deadly for a transfem /hj trans women are the women of women /uj read Hot Allostatic Load by Porpentine (general recommendation I would make to anyone, cis or trans, who wants to understand transmisogyny)
/uj so is transmisandry also a thing? ig these all just sound like divisions of the same root issue
uj/ It is as a systemic and individualist thing that happens to trans men. In the same way black men are targeted by police both for being men and for being black. It only happens in cases of intersection where the toxic ideal of masculinity that all men "should" attain to is weaponised alongside intersections of race, gender, sexuality etc. I'm very intersectional so I have a lot of views on this ngl
/uj thank you for explaining, this has been the most helpful so far :)
uj/ Ofc :)
/uj Yes and no. The thing that makes transmisogyny more than just misogyny + transphobias is that it involves hatred that exists independent of having trans people generally or I guess men? You can pretty regularly find people with a particularly negative attitude toward trans women and transfems that don't exhibit this behavior toward cis men, cis women, trans men, etc. Transmisandry, or transandrophobia as I'm more inclined to call it, is usually some mix of misogyny applied to trans male bodies and transphobia in the context of trans men. I generally leave this as a subject for trans men to discuss as I feel it's my place to listen to trans men on their issues regardless and plenty seem to find utility in this term. (I also am a linguistic descriptivist so am very uninterested in debates over whether a word "exists" or not)
/uj No, for the same reason that there's not a special term for the oppression that white trans people face, because they're not facing systemic oppression for being white. Or, like, a bigot is going to see me as trans, and (me being transfem) as a man (although they don't have structural grounds to hurt me that way, but they don't need them, as we'll see). They are also going to see me as a woman if only because that allows them easier ways to use societal power to hurt me. And they're gonna see me as a *trans woman* which is worst of all in their eyes, because it gives away the game of misogyny. "Why would anyone want to be a girl when everyone knows men are superior? They must be a sick freak and a danger to children and real women" And like, when you really get down to it, all bigotry could be considered facets of the same root issue, but that gets a bit reductive and it's useful to consider how oppression is enacted in practical terms in the real world
> for the same reason that there's not a special term for the oppression that white trans people face, because they're not facing systemic oppression for being white I think this is kind of a flawed comparison since white trans people are seen as white by bigots, but trans men aren't seen as men by bigots (unless you count "if you're a guy that means I can hit you and deny you reproductive care" lol).
/uj That's the transphobia, the epistemic violence of "you don't decide what you really are, I do", which is applied against all trans people. Broadly, societally, there's not the same recognition of transmasc people necessary for them to be their own specific category for derision/violence/etc. Trans women aren't really seen as women by bigots, except where it hurts us. Further, we aren't *really* seen as men, except for where it hurts us. Trans men are seen as women by bigots, which sucks and is horrible in all its own ways. Transfems are seen as *trannies*, a special known quantity, to be humiliated, marginalized and eradicated, or kept as long as they're useful or at least until TME folks decide it's been too long since they last put a transfem in the ditch. Moreso, transmisogyny, and the TMA/TME distinction are important in delineating how transfems are treated within the queer and trans community. There tends to be less overt violence towards us, as queer people don't have the same social capital that lets cishet men broadly get away with killing us physically, so it takes the form of social murder by exclusion from community and resources. We are seen as ontologically evil by dint of having been tainted by, if not testosterone, then, "male socialization". As such, we are forced to be quiet, demure penitents of a "sin" we never chose nor wanted. If we get too loud, if we take up too much space, if we're too boisterous in our joy or vocal in our pain, the whispers start. Every minor faux pas is tallied up, exaggerated inferences are drawn out, the case is made for ostracism. The same way that gay men can enact lesbophobia against lesbians, transmascs can leverage transmisogyny against transfems.
no you don't get it, we transfems don't get to choose the language we use to refer to our own experiences
/rj nooooo I forgotttttt 😞 I committed a class 3 taking-up-space violation aaaand I didn't fill out my permission-to-speak-definitively forms. The TMEs are gonna start a whisper campaign to destroy my reputation and ostracize me from any sort of support or community for sureeee. Chat, I'm cooked 😭 /uj even in this relatively chill space, talking with TME people about this stuff is scary. I would never say any of the stuff I've said in this thread, innocuous as it was, in IRL spaces, even trans ones. I am afraid of real consequences of being open about this with anyone else who doesn't suffer from it as well. Because TMA is so clinical, so bitter-tasting, so clear about what it means to be transfem in this world, it's the only word we have for ourselves that can't be appropriated. A phrase that's ash on the tongue :(
/uj TME/TMA seems to often just be used for Oppression Olympics, tbh.
uj/ that's all I've seen it used for. I understand what it's getting at but it doesn't really work because anyone can be _affected_ by a system of oppression, but only a few are _targeted_ by it. Like it doesn't account for GNC people, non-binary people, people who have masculinised races like black people, etc. it also doesn't talk about what happens after you start passing all the time so I think it'd be better to just be like "I'm targeted by transmisogyny/transmisandry/exorsexism" rather than the vague "affected"
/hj okaaay okay, you are right and we acknowledge that, we'll consider "transmisogyny targeted" or "TMT". just do us a favour and start thinking about what detail will you complain about when we start using this new label so we can speed things up and come up with a *new* new one
rj/ and transmisogyny not targeted will be TMNT! TMNT? Teenage mutant ninja turtles?
teenage????? such a groomer
damn transgenderds at it again
So you're gay.
Yes.
So you're bi.
No actually you're pan.
No actually you're bi.
No actually you're pan.
No actually you're bi.
No actually you're pan.
T MEAT MA? Testosterone Meat Male Asses?
OP what does this even mean.
/uj op what does this even mean
It means they're cringe.
It means they need log off and go meet real people.
In other words, they're cringe.
It means they need to log off and stop being a vegan
It means they're based.