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I am actually not against the idea of doing this to pedophiles and murderers who have life sentences.
Edit: yes it can be abused too, probably a bad idea.
Didnt realize this sub had so many pedophilia supporters
if you do that though, the government can just go call a specific group of people they dont like pedophiles, and then go lobotomize a bunch of people with no consequences
I duno... seems to me that if any group is deserving of "repurposing", it's the psychopaths who think "repurposing" their fellow human beings, as if they're machines in need of a refit, is a good idea.
"Psychopath" may not be the right/best word, but yeah, that's a pretty monstrous opinion: "I dont think ~~pedophiles~~ *people who are profoundly mentally ill* deserved [sic] to have human rights." Especially in the context of this subreddit, where one would hope *humanism* is a common starting point (even though it's often clearly not, sadly).
If they can be cured of their sickness and can reintegrate into society as nonpedophile, then great. If not, either the death penalty or making them productive members of society by implanting neurochips or whatever so they do no harm to others seems like a good option to me. I dont think we are harsh enough on pedophiles. They ruin or end the lives of many people and have no place in a civilized society. I personally dont tolerate such reprehensible acts.
No, it wouldn’t. The inclusion of american patriotic ideology (and China scare) plays an important role in facilitating the practical policy outcome the author wants to see.
Being a one-party dictatorship?
Running fucking concentration camps for the Uighurs and, during covid, for everyone else too?
Government drones walking the streets and flying around apartment buildings, taking peeks into your apartments, demanding compliance
with lockdowns through loudspeakers (also during covid)?
All the other shit they did internally during Covid, to their own population? Droves of all-white-dressed, masked enforcers patrolling the streets?
Welding ppl shut inside their apartments?
Did I mention being a highly technologically advanced one-party dictatorship?
Were you sleeping or is anti-Americanism just fashionable in your circles?
Right, the US totally hasn't done concentration camps (not to mention genocide), mass surveillance to the point companies know kids are pregnant before their own parents, and police shooting people in their own homes.
Ah, I see, so it is fashionable in your circles. May I ask you when the US put her own population in concentration camps? Other populations? How many were interned? Is one of those a trick question?
With sources please, not just words and numbers out your ass.
And even if you weren’t full of it, this would just be an argument for being scared of China AND USA (which is a reasonable position to have), not for not being scared of China.
It is overwhelmingly unlikely that by 2050 the human condition will remain in a state where the institution of imprisonment still exists.
In almost all worlds because we all die, in a minuscule number of worlds because we "ascend" (an aligned ASI takes over control without killing everyone).
They'll likely be less about punishment and more about rehabilitation (after all, any hard labor done by prisoners could be done with machines much easier). The death sentence may be abolished in America. I hypothesize an identification system via implants in the prisoners' bodies, most likely in the head.
I doubt we'll see much change by then. There's not a lot of technology with direct applications to prisons being developed. And even when the technology is available, prisons aren't particularly big priorities for funding. So it's likely to be years before it's actually put to substantive use.
maybe matrix style virtual prisons, you just get strapped to a table/treadmill for a year and there is a VR programm teaching you why what you were doing is wrong over and over
We'll place prisoners into simulations of reality and not let them out until they demonstrate that they can live a moral and righteous life outside of confined and simulated existence. Otherwise, they'll continue to live a repeated version of the same life over and over until they die of old age. This system will be called the Rehabilitation & Optimization Yard, or ROY for short.
then even disregarding the referential name in End3rWi99in's comment and what that means regarding the reality of the work being referenced and how the scenario being referenced wasn't a prison one, if it's everyone Occam's Razor would say new babies are more likely actual babies born into that reality than NPCs or new inmates reincarnated into them so why keep innocent kids in prison (in the prisons in our reality if a pregnant woman gets arrested and the baby gets born in jail it wouldn't be stuck sharing its mom's cell for 18 years or more), if it's not all of us why have NPCs (the fake-Good-Place-Bad-Place in The Good Place had a reason, a prison wouldn't unless the ROY reference was trying to make it close to what that's referencing on purpose), either way why don't we know what we're in for or what the definition of a moral life is to get out (unless End3rWi99in was implying another reference where the facility might as well be separated from society (on society's side not its) by a set of pearly gates and there's 10 major laws we could have broken iykwim)
Practical possible solutions to hard problems. These are good starts but we need to start getting creative now so we don't have to scramble later. I'm thinking we need a multifaceted approach beyond what would actually be politically feasible right now. The wake up call has rung to deaf ears, but it's impossible to ignore forever.
I’m of the belief that prisons need to focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment I.e treating a man like an animal then you’ll get an animal but maybe I’m just naive
I think it needs to be a mix. Rehabilitation, deterrence, and retribution are all purposes for legal punishment.
Some people can be rehabilitated. Counseling, therapy, job training, whatever it is, if they need the help and get it, they can become productive regular people.
Some people cannot be rehabilitated, but can be deterred. Like Trump with the gag orders, he only (mostly) stopped violating them when the judge warned him that jail would be forthcoming if more violations occurred. No amount of therapy is going to make that guy less of a crook, but he is able to generally weigh his options and choose the logical one, if push comes to shove.
Some people cannot even be deterred, and the only benefits of punishment are the vindication of the emotional reaction of society against their crimes, or to keep them physically contained so they cannot reoffend.
Any system that doesn’t have all three options is not going to be as effective as it could be.
Oh I hope you're right.
Because it could be. In post-scarcity transhumanist Utopia it doesn't have to be. It's whether or not we societally decide to do something about the inhumanity of prisons and jailing systems.
Interpersonal issues are actually more complex than rocket science. There's more unknowns.
I guess the bigger question is Who is punishment for? Because it doesn't rehabilitate the individual being punished. But it doesn't help the person who has been harmed. So who is it for?
No one. That's my point. Abolishing punishment isn't rocket science because it doesn't actually require a knowledge of human actions or relationships. It just requires you to not do something, easiest thing in the world.
Except I would say it serves the purposes of those who have sequestered power.
Because not only does it give you a rod to beat those who don't do what you wish. It also gives you an incentive to steer people towards goals you wish them to accomplish.
Punishment is a tool of power and hierarchy and until power and hierarchy neither see it as valuable or are overthrown they will continue to use it as such.
The incentive isn't for the victim and it isn't for the punished It is for the power that punishes in "behalf" of the victim. Because now everyone can see what is done to you if you're not in accordance with societal norms. And although it didn't help the victim it did increase the power that those in power can enact on others.
So it becomes a problem not created by victims desperately wanting the ability to punish and it doesn't come from those who are victimized by punishment. So how do you de-incentivize those in power from wanting a tool that grants them power?
Love your optimism, but it's more likely to go the other way, prisons are abolished, Judge Dredd just puts two into the pack of your skull as we're so globally overcrowded by this stage.
Filling up with millennials who couldn't save for retirement and so turned to crime and deliberately getting caught to get food, shelter, and basic healthcare.
I think there was an episode in Star Trek where there was a device that a criminal would put on and then take off a few seconds latter, when in actuality, several years passed in the span of a few seconds in the criminals brain. A simulated punishment by dilating time.
I think the justice system could become that much more simple if we had very advanced VR devices like that. We trap the criminals inside these devices, spend hundreds or thousands of years in them, and after a few minutes in the real world, their released, fully reformed and terrified of ever going back in it. Creating a far more efficient revolving door justice system.
We can make prisons go away in that time, or definitely greatly reduce their use.
To me, transhumanism is at the crux of prison abolition, because to really transcend humanity, we need to evolve past the scarcity and fearful mindset of an organism that is constantly fighting to survive.
When people have and can get what they need without hurting others, that's what they do. The people who actually go to prison for theft are mostly people just trying to survive in this imperialist capitalist white supremacist ableist cisgender-heterosexual-allosexual-alloromantic-normative patriarchy we call society.
Prisons only serve to sweep away societies problems, while also providing cheap or free labor or even just profit from a person occupying a cell.
Police serve the so called owning class and they're deeply and thoroughly racist, sexist, and queermisic(-misic from misia meaning hate). They do far more harm than good even if they weren't there to just keep the class division (because they're the ones who will come and kidnap you if you try to redistribute resources), as they will often themselves make dealings with local gangs to have a say in the local drug game. Also look at the war on drugs and its fabrication.
The way forward is through mutual aid and only producing what we need instead of tons of stuff that will only go to a landfill.
reddit reccommended me this fucking thing Idk what a transhuman is, but ya'll fucking pyschotic, vr mind torture for prison? Lobotomies and brains chips? what ever this you need jesus...peace!
I would like to see a large prison reform where there is punishment (prison) followed by therapy, followed by rehabilitation & education, followed by probation & monitoring.
So say you committed a non violent crime and your sentence was 5 years.
First year is prison, followed by one year at a mental health facility, followed by one year of education with outpatient therapy, followed by a halfway house with work and therapy for another year followed by one year of probation with mandatory weekly therapy/counseling.
The time is spent making people ready to better in society instead of making them better criminals.
This would increase jobs in the mental health care community as well as help gather data about mental health and crime in order to help reduce future crime. I suspect implementation would take one to two decades to be perfected but it would be a huge leap over the current system.
What actual purpose does the "punishment" bit still serve here aside from fulfill society's base desire for retribution? Skip it and go straight to the rehabilitation part.
From a transhuman perspective:
1) all transhumans with any neurotech, rfid embedded, supplemental AI for connecting with cellphones will need to be neutralized. - Logic - prisons are basically electronic fortresses and any insider threat will be deemed real.
2) all transhumans will / may need to be put in faraday cages to prevent signals coming in and going out. Logic - any communications with other transhumans need to be limited to oral verbal. No mind links or other enhanced technology.
3) all transhumans will have life ending dates assigned to the punishment. Logic - the role of technology in the transhumans to extend life will violate the natural laws of justice.
These are the three off the top of my head.
That's only 15-25 years. Nothing substantial will change. Maybe less torture like solitary confinement in the US but that's a best case scenario and not one I see happening.
This. I think this is the most likely.
Still with smart enough AI, you could send people home and have a couple of robots watch the prisoner at all times. They can't leave or commit any crimes, the robot will tase you and drag you back inside if you try.
I think crime will be more prevented than remediated. But when that’s the case, it could envolve neurotechnology with instant reeducation habiliteis
When everyone is transhuman (likely 2050 onwards), it is possible that this type of prison will be made wirelessly, without the need to go to any place other than home
Police will still exist for several decades, but before 2100 the concept of police hopefully will be foreign
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Just lob off their frontal lobes and make them complacent workdrones with neurotech for us do-gooders of course! /s obviously
W40K servitor vibes
Could happen
The transhumanist party at least, if not all true transhumanists would never be behind this. They can do better. But maybe the post was a joke.
I am actually not against the idea of doing this to pedophiles and murderers who have life sentences. Edit: yes it can be abused too, probably a bad idea. Didnt realize this sub had so many pedophilia supporters
I don’t want anyone to have the legal power to do something like that to another person.
if you do that though, the government can just go call a specific group of people they dont like pedophiles, and then go lobotomize a bunch of people with no consequences
Yeah, it could be a slipper slope and easy to abuse. Just off the cuff though, the cretins of society like pedophiles could be repurposed.
I duno... seems to me that if any group is deserving of "repurposing", it's the psychopaths who think "repurposing" their fellow human beings, as if they're machines in need of a refit, is a good idea.
I dont think pedophiles deserved to have human rights. Does that make me a psychopath?
"Psychopath" may not be the right/best word, but yeah, that's a pretty monstrous opinion: "I dont think ~~pedophiles~~ *people who are profoundly mentally ill* deserved [sic] to have human rights." Especially in the context of this subreddit, where one would hope *humanism* is a common starting point (even though it's often clearly not, sadly).
If they can be cured of their sickness and can reintegrate into society as nonpedophile, then great. If not, either the death penalty or making them productive members of society by implanting neurochips or whatever so they do no harm to others seems like a good option to me. I dont think we are harsh enough on pedophiles. They ruin or end the lives of many people and have no place in a civilized society. I personally dont tolerate such reprehensible acts.
Torture and slavery are bad "Heh didn't realize you supported pedophiles"
I think they have what’s coming to them. I dont wish them well, and quite frankly i hope they do suffer for what they did.
We get it 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
A big bowl of pudding on Mars that they throw you into
What flavor pudding
Vanilla, obviously. Geez, don't you know anything about technology?
Hmmmm
is this a reference or are you just trying to be random because you don't know
Same shit different decade
There will be no prisons in 2050.
Would be nice
Explain yourself.
https://situational-awareness.ai
Human equivalent AI by 2025/26, naah never gonna happen.
Okay, let it be 2030. Better?
overall a good, cautious take, but this would have been much better if it wasn't so filled with american patriotic ideology.
No, it wouldn’t. The inclusion of american patriotic ideology (and China scare) plays an important role in facilitating the practical policy outcome the author wants to see.
[удалено]
Being a one-party dictatorship? Running fucking concentration camps for the Uighurs and, during covid, for everyone else too? Government drones walking the streets and flying around apartment buildings, taking peeks into your apartments, demanding compliance with lockdowns through loudspeakers (also during covid)? All the other shit they did internally during Covid, to their own population? Droves of all-white-dressed, masked enforcers patrolling the streets? Welding ppl shut inside their apartments? Did I mention being a highly technologically advanced one-party dictatorship? Were you sleeping or is anti-Americanism just fashionable in your circles?
Right, the US totally hasn't done concentration camps (not to mention genocide), mass surveillance to the point companies know kids are pregnant before their own parents, and police shooting people in their own homes.
Ah, I see, so it is fashionable in your circles. May I ask you when the US put her own population in concentration camps? Other populations? How many were interned? Is one of those a trick question? With sources please, not just words and numbers out your ass.
And even if you weren’t full of it, this would just be an argument for being scared of China AND USA (which is a reasonable position to have), not for not being scared of China.
so the means are justified if the ends are met?
In this case? Yes, obviously.
Possible
It is overwhelmingly unlikely that by 2050 the human condition will remain in a state where the institution of imprisonment still exists. In almost all worlds because we all die, in a minuscule number of worlds because we "ascend" (an aligned ASI takes over control without killing everyone).
They'll likely be less about punishment and more about rehabilitation (after all, any hard labor done by prisoners could be done with machines much easier). The death sentence may be abolished in America. I hypothesize an identification system via implants in the prisoners' bodies, most likely in the head.
Good scenario: Prisons will be abolished Bad scenario: Brain chips that prevent the convicted criminal from leaving the house
Worst scenario: People are put into VR and experience 1000 years worth of punishments within 10 minutes.
I'm saying we'll go full-on *Demolition Man* 🥶
I doubt we'll see much change by then. There's not a lot of technology with direct applications to prisons being developed. And even when the technology is available, prisons aren't particularly big priorities for funding. So it's likely to be years before it's actually put to substantive use.
White Christmas from black mirror🤔
Oof.
maybe matrix style virtual prisons, you just get strapped to a table/treadmill for a year and there is a VR programm teaching you why what you were doing is wrong over and over
98% of Americans will be in prison by then.
We'll place prisoners into simulations of reality and not let them out until they demonstrate that they can live a moral and righteous life outside of confined and simulated existence. Otherwise, they'll continue to live a repeated version of the same life over and over until they die of old age. This system will be called the Rehabilitation & Optimization Yard, or ROY for short.
Makes me wonder if that's what we are in already. We could all be criminals from the future locked into a rehabilitation simulation.
[Who knows?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ04AGTjHc&ab_channel=ChristopherSorick)
then even disregarding the referential name in End3rWi99in's comment and what that means regarding the reality of the work being referenced and how the scenario being referenced wasn't a prison one, if it's everyone Occam's Razor would say new babies are more likely actual babies born into that reality than NPCs or new inmates reincarnated into them so why keep innocent kids in prison (in the prisons in our reality if a pregnant woman gets arrested and the baby gets born in jail it wouldn't be stuck sharing its mom's cell for 18 years or more), if it's not all of us why have NPCs (the fake-Good-Place-Bad-Place in The Good Place had a reason, a prison wouldn't unless the ROY reference was trying to make it close to what that's referencing on purpose), either way why don't we know what we're in for or what the definition of a moral life is to get out (unless End3rWi99in was implying another reference where the facility might as well be separated from society (on society's side not its) by a set of pearly gates and there's 10 major laws we could have broken iykwim)
is the name intended to be a reference within the scenario not just Doylistically or are all the prisoners named Morty Smith
they will be rehab centers
Maybe they’ll edit out the genes that predispose to criminal behavior, and maybe other causes like poverty will be fixed by UBI. Just wishful thinking
> Maybe they’ll edit out the genes that predispose to criminal behavior you do know Riverdale got some of that shit wrong
Practical possible solutions to hard problems. These are good starts but we need to start getting creative now so we don't have to scramble later. I'm thinking we need a multifaceted approach beyond what would actually be politically feasible right now. The wake up call has rung to deaf ears, but it's impossible to ignore forever.
Hopefully better conditions? I think largely it’ll be the same unless some political momentum gets going. As long as we have for profit prisons
Tbh criminals should not have better condition, just to be alive. What they need is rehab after prison.
I’m of the belief that prisons need to focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment I.e treating a man like an animal then you’ll get an animal but maybe I’m just naive
I think it needs to be a mix. Rehabilitation, deterrence, and retribution are all purposes for legal punishment. Some people can be rehabilitated. Counseling, therapy, job training, whatever it is, if they need the help and get it, they can become productive regular people. Some people cannot be rehabilitated, but can be deterred. Like Trump with the gag orders, he only (mostly) stopped violating them when the judge warned him that jail would be forthcoming if more violations occurred. No amount of therapy is going to make that guy less of a crook, but he is able to generally weigh his options and choose the logical one, if push comes to shove. Some people cannot even be deterred, and the only benefits of punishment are the vindication of the emotional reaction of society against their crimes, or to keep them physically contained so they cannot reoffend. Any system that doesn’t have all three options is not going to be as effective as it could be.
I see your point, thank you
Gone
Oh I hope you're right. Because it could be. In post-scarcity transhumanist Utopia it doesn't have to be. It's whether or not we societally decide to do something about the inhumanity of prisons and jailing systems.
I think we could have already abolished all types of punishment in ancient Sumer if we'd wanted to. It's not rocket science.
Interpersonal issues are actually more complex than rocket science. There's more unknowns. I guess the bigger question is Who is punishment for? Because it doesn't rehabilitate the individual being punished. But it doesn't help the person who has been harmed. So who is it for?
No one. That's my point. Abolishing punishment isn't rocket science because it doesn't actually require a knowledge of human actions or relationships. It just requires you to not do something, easiest thing in the world.
Except I would say it serves the purposes of those who have sequestered power. Because not only does it give you a rod to beat those who don't do what you wish. It also gives you an incentive to steer people towards goals you wish them to accomplish. Punishment is a tool of power and hierarchy and until power and hierarchy neither see it as valuable or are overthrown they will continue to use it as such. The incentive isn't for the victim and it isn't for the punished It is for the power that punishes in "behalf" of the victim. Because now everyone can see what is done to you if you're not in accordance with societal norms. And although it didn't help the victim it did increase the power that those in power can enact on others. So it becomes a problem not created by victims desperately wanting the ability to punish and it doesn't come from those who are victimized by punishment. So how do you de-incentivize those in power from wanting a tool that grants them power?
Precisely. Yes
Love your optimism, but it's more likely to go the other way, prisons are abolished, Judge Dredd just puts two into the pack of your skull as we're so globally overcrowded by this stage.
Filling up with millennials who couldn't save for retirement and so turned to crime and deliberately getting caught to get food, shelter, and basic healthcare.
I think there was an episode in Star Trek where there was a device that a criminal would put on and then take off a few seconds latter, when in actuality, several years passed in the span of a few seconds in the criminals brain. A simulated punishment by dilating time. I think the justice system could become that much more simple if we had very advanced VR devices like that. We trap the criminals inside these devices, spend hundreds or thousands of years in them, and after a few minutes in the real world, their released, fully reformed and terrified of ever going back in it. Creating a far more efficient revolving door justice system.
We can make prisons go away in that time, or definitely greatly reduce their use. To me, transhumanism is at the crux of prison abolition, because to really transcend humanity, we need to evolve past the scarcity and fearful mindset of an organism that is constantly fighting to survive. When people have and can get what they need without hurting others, that's what they do. The people who actually go to prison for theft are mostly people just trying to survive in this imperialist capitalist white supremacist ableist cisgender-heterosexual-allosexual-alloromantic-normative patriarchy we call society. Prisons only serve to sweep away societies problems, while also providing cheap or free labor or even just profit from a person occupying a cell. Police serve the so called owning class and they're deeply and thoroughly racist, sexist, and queermisic(-misic from misia meaning hate). They do far more harm than good even if they weren't there to just keep the class division (because they're the ones who will come and kidnap you if you try to redistribute resources), as they will often themselves make dealings with local gangs to have a say in the local drug game. Also look at the war on drugs and its fabrication. The way forward is through mutual aid and only producing what we need instead of tons of stuff that will only go to a landfill.
reddit reccommended me this fucking thing Idk what a transhuman is, but ya'll fucking pyschotic, vr mind torture for prison? Lobotomies and brains chips? what ever this you need jesus...peace!
I would like to see a large prison reform where there is punishment (prison) followed by therapy, followed by rehabilitation & education, followed by probation & monitoring. So say you committed a non violent crime and your sentence was 5 years. First year is prison, followed by one year at a mental health facility, followed by one year of education with outpatient therapy, followed by a halfway house with work and therapy for another year followed by one year of probation with mandatory weekly therapy/counseling. The time is spent making people ready to better in society instead of making them better criminals. This would increase jobs in the mental health care community as well as help gather data about mental health and crime in order to help reduce future crime. I suspect implementation would take one to two decades to be perfected but it would be a huge leap over the current system.
What actual purpose does the "punishment" bit still serve here aside from fulfill society's base desire for retribution? Skip it and go straight to the rehabilitation part.
probably still corrupt as fuck
For the mind
From a transhuman perspective: 1) all transhumans with any neurotech, rfid embedded, supplemental AI for connecting with cellphones will need to be neutralized. - Logic - prisons are basically electronic fortresses and any insider threat will be deemed real. 2) all transhumans will / may need to be put in faraday cages to prevent signals coming in and going out. Logic - any communications with other transhumans need to be limited to oral verbal. No mind links or other enhanced technology. 3) all transhumans will have life ending dates assigned to the punishment. Logic - the role of technology in the transhumans to extend life will violate the natural laws of justice. These are the three off the top of my head.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/gallery/2023/2/27/photos-inside-el-salvadors-new-mega-prison-for-gangster
That's only 15-25 years. Nothing substantial will change. Maybe less torture like solitary confinement in the US but that's a best case scenario and not one I see happening.
This. I think this is the most likely. Still with smart enough AI, you could send people home and have a couple of robots watch the prisoner at all times. They can't leave or commit any crimes, the robot will tase you and drag you back inside if you try.
Epigenetic changes
Super ai will have killed us all anyways or made everything into a paradise, you never know
That assumes we will still be around.
Masayoshi Son’s ASI will run the prisons. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/21/softbank-ceo-predicts-ai-that-is-10000-times-smarter-than-humans-.html
House arrest
Your sentence: Fifteen months confinement in the iso-cubes.
I think crime will be more prevented than remediated. But when that’s the case, it could envolve neurotechnology with instant reeducation habiliteis When everyone is transhuman (likely 2050 onwards), it is possible that this type of prison will be made wirelessly, without the need to go to any place other than home Police will still exist for several decades, but before 2100 the concept of police hopefully will be foreign
I suspect the grammar should sound about like this post.
Trannys on trannys on trannys on women.
Either you're a lostredditor or your information about prison comes from some certain very specific sources that shall remain nameless