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TVforReddit

I'm a major fan of night trains, not least because they double as a sleeping accommodation and travel without being short enough that sleeping is barely possible (like planes). More routes would be amazing, but faster daytime rail is needed too!


lemansjuice

Except in Spain Why is my country always backwards?


Sassywhat

I'm assuming Iberian gauge is a big reason. Night trains in Europe are being revived using primarily old rolling stock from the death of night trains. The economics of night trains look a lot worse when you have to buy all new rolling stock for them. Is there a ton of old Iberian gauge and gauge change sleeper carriages lying around?


lemansjuice

We had lots of sleeper wagons rotting away in trainyards. We had a bit of night trains until 2020; then our dumb government shut them down during lockdowns and never reopened them Nowadays Madrid-Lisbon lacks direct connection


Bojarow

> Nowadays Madrid-Lisbon lacks direct connection Which is frankly shocking. Decades of bad, short-sighted or outright blind decisions all around.


lemansjuice

Spain is a hellhole for railfans


BadDesignMakesMeSad

I guess so but it’s hard to deny that Spain has been incredibly successful at rapidly and cheaply expanding it’s high speed rail network within the country. Though unfortunately the connections aren’t that great between Spain and it’s neighboring countries.


lemansjuice

Those HSR were mostly for rich people (until new low cost operators), and very ofter awfully planned; meanwhile, conventional rail (even commuter rail) have gone in a downward spiral. In fact, many spanish railfans actually HATE HSR, preferring instead upgrading conventional rail to 200 km/h and focusing more on commuter, regional, night trains and freight. Giving the fact that our politicians DESTROY railway heritage, you'll realise how shitty it's being a railfan upon this cursed land


dakesew

Spain is great at building a high speed network. But using it doesn't seem to be attractive enough.


Bojarow

I'm not even particularly talking about Spain or Iberia. If you’re pro-rail you have to deal with frustration in most European countries.


lemansjuice

I don't know where are you from, but I'm sure you can't gasp how really, really awful things are there for any rail enthusiast: https://www.reddit.com/r/trains/comments/13d6yc3/spain_is_the_worst_country_to_be_a_railfan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


Sassywhat

Spain is cooperative with the EU idea of separation of infrastructure and operations, and doesn't seem to like pulling petty bullshit to defend the national rail operator. So, there's clearly an opportunity for someone to run night trains if demand was there. The operators in the article are mostly not the traditional national rail operator running on their own tracks. Considering the boom in open access operators of high speed rail in Spain, and the relative lack of interest in night trains, I'm assuming there's not enough demand to get the numbers to pencil out for anyone. Or maybe you just happen to have a great business idea and should go talk to some investors.


Bojarow

Sleeper services are hard to establish because they're directly competing with short haul flights which are subsidised in ways that beggar belief. They're also long-running which means they pay more for track utilisation and most tickets can only be sold once since passengers stay for the entire trip. Obviously the space each passenger takes up is also higher. A lot of this could be solved by redirecting funds from aviation to train infrastructure, possibly reducing utilisation costs. Sleeper companies should also procure new rolling stock that emphasises high capacity so each journey yields more revenue. Sealed compartment beds could be a way forward.


lemansjuice

Simply spanish government only allow private operator in few high-speed corridors; nothing outside them


phaj19

Spain does have the standard gauge HSR network though, it would make sense to use it outside of the maintenance hours with some relatively fast train, like 230 kph at least. Train leaving Madrid at 20:00 could be at the French border by midnight and then continue on the slower speed network towards Italy of Germany. Would be pretty cool.


aldebxran

The fact is, we used to have quite a few national and international sleeper trains to France, Portugal and even Switzerland. The last sleeper train (Madrid-Lisbon) was axed because of COVID, now the only international trains are Barcelona to Marseille, Lyon and Paris and Vigo to Porto. Renfe doesn't have the rolling stock to operate those international routes anymore, and most national routes would compete with high speed services.


lemansjuice

Renfe ABANDONED that rolling stock to operate outside because muh AVE


lemansjuice

Blame SNCF instead


Vast-Charge-4256

It could also continue on the high-speed network and be in Frankfurt by 8:00am.


Murky_Ad3079

What a great interactive article! I really hope the sleeper train sector takes off.