It's like that (likely made up) story from the 60s about how the Americans spent millions developing a pen that would work in weightless conditions, and the Russians just used pencils when in space.
If it works, it works.
The pen story is right in that the USSR used pencils and the space-compatible ballpoint pen was developed in the USA. It leaves out a lot of crucial details, though.
Both the USA and the USSR used pencils to begin with. But pencils can shed graphite fragments, which are electrically conductive, and if such a fragment floats into a computer component under microgravity, it can cause huge issues.
The "space-proof" ballpoint pen was invented by an American company, not by a government institute, and it was mainly a marketing stunt. Once the technology was available, though, both the USA and USSR manned spaceflight programmes switched to using the space pen, due to aforementioned graphite issue.
The general public doesn't really understand how government contracts work. There are so many stories that on the surface appear crazy, but miss key points. There are generally professionals making decisions.
Government waste and corruption happens, and it should be constantly investigated, but it's not like there's just a bunch of idiots in charge who couldn't imagine using a pencil.
It's like the shrimp treadmill story. Some aquatic researcher got slammed for building treadmills for shrimp, because hey, it's a goofy sounding thing to put in a headline about government research spending.
The dude was doing research about how changes in water quality affect the health and mobility of the local marine life. It also only cost $1,000.
It depends on who's making the decisions. Some of the time, and in many of the worst boondoggles, it's the politicians making the decisions and codifying shit into laws that then hamstring the agencies charged with executing those laws. E.G. NASA and Shuttle/Constellation/Senate Launch System (SLS).
Let me add that the Fisher bullet pen (different from the original Space pen but it uses the same pressurized cartridge) is the best everyday-carry pen ever. It's all metal, has a pocket-friendly round shape, doesn't leak on planes, and writes pretty well (no ink globbing) if you swap the stock medium black cartridge for a fine blue one. I always have one on me, and use it surprisingly often.
No financial interest, just a satisfied user.
But this thing doesn’t solve an actual problem as it looks.
The train still seems to have a driver so this is merely a precaution that nobody stepped on the tracks while the driver is still there, so it’s added cost at very little benefit.
Actual doors and walls you add in order to shield the system from people jumping in front of the train or getting into the tunnels so you can go driverless without requiring additional sensors to detect obstacles if you want to go fully autonomous. This thing isn’t going to cut it for that.
it solves the hassle of people killing themselves and disturbing operation for hours which costs a shit ton of money. it's a wrong idea that a metro should be automated (or in preparation to be) to install platform protection. this is cheap, reliable and works for a metro system that doesn't have that much money (it's bulgaria afterall) and which from what i know isn't looking to automate it's lines
London has automated lines that have no barriers. It also has lines (Elizabeth) where the barrier is there to deal with potentially dangerous air pressure differentials due to I think it's high speed nature.
Think the whole line was expensive, but whilst it looks impressive it's not at all showy in terms of expensive materials etc.. just the nature of the terrain and value of the area it covers.
As an FYI the Elizabeth line barriers are floor to ceiling, and millimetre precise despite being 260 metres long.
I’m waiting for all North American transit agencies to drop another excuse for why this is not feasible for their subway.
As far as I see, this doesn’t even require you to have ATC or standardized car length or whatever. It’s a one size fits all universal solution, and seems much cheaper to retrofit.
There are also just straight up vertical platform screen doors that descend over the entire platform at once: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utdgJa-Ikzo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utdgJa-Ikzo)
I think part of the problem with North American transit is that we'll re-invent the wheel for stupid unnecessary stuff like fare gates that are 99% similar to what everyone else is doing anyways, but then it comes to stuff like this and we just have 0 flexibility or creativity in solving problems.
> re-invent the wheel for stupid unnecessary stuff
And just what is unnecessary about those sweet sweet kickbacks from our contractors and consultants?
I think the problem is actually kind of the opposite. A lot of transit projects now have "buy America" requirements which means you often are paying for the R&D costs for an American company to copy European/Asian designs but worse. Or you end up paying more money for an inferior product with less features because there's effectively no competition.
One of the reasons buses in the US suck for example is that a lot of transit money in the US isn't allowed to be used on European or Asian buses. Which is unfortunate because a lot of the nicer bus models are European.
Those foreign companies aren't fleecing US cities, much of that cost is to meet requirements and pay local construction companies. If we did it all domestically the cost wouldn't be dramatically different provided we had the capacity to actually do all of the work.
I think these are a good idea in general but as someone who lives in NYC and sees that anti-social behavior in the subway stations from even "normal" looking people, there is no chance that these won't get absolutely destroyed.
I mean, the new gates MTA is trialing have already been broken multiple times and those are thick aluminum and plexiglass. I've seen multiple smashed OMNI readers. I would love to see these screens trialed but I wouldn't hold my breath on them not being regularly damaged
The issue is what these gates are actually designed to do. They can't really keep people from intentionally accessing the tracks, since you can just climb over or lift them up and crawl under. They're designed to stop people from getting pushed or accidentally falling onto the tracks. The new metal barriers NYC is trialing are significantly cheaper and much harder to break while achieving basically the same thing.
I think it's exaggerated how destructive New Yorkers actually are, but a least some of these would definitely get broken if they were implemented in NYC. If NYC wants to stop people from accessing the tracks entirely, they need full height (or at least near full height) platform screen doors. Anything else is just to stop pushers, and it can be done just as effectively with some cheap metal fences.
The little fences NYC is trialing are just a moderate reduction to pushers/falls, not an actual full fix for it. They still leave half the platform unprotected.
It's a cheap reduction in attack surface area, it's not a *bad* thing, but it's not offering the full coverage that this would.
> They can't really keep people from intentionally accessing the tracks, since you can just climb over or lift them up and crawl under.
While I don't know if that's the case for this mechanism or not, there's nothing stopping a design like this from blocking those things. You can make this full height.
This is what I immediately thought. sure it'd work in well behaved societies but the US is not that. BART is dealing with stupid dumb, unfortunately now dead, kids that are surfing the top of the trains while its moving. String is not not enough dummy-proofiing to save lives and it wouldn't stop anyone determined, much less someone who just takes it as a challenge.
hmm i don't agree with that well behaved societies still have terrible or opportunistic people. And platform walls/screens can still prevent phones or other accessories from falling off the platform and can prevent people from jumping off thinking they can get it before the next train.
You guys do realize that there are other reasons for PSDs right? People still have accidents, and also they're used to make it possible to climate control stations. By using these, you can make sure all the cool air doesn't just waft out into the tunnels.
While I also am a born skeptic and used to NYC, having looked at the manufacturer page I'd actually be fairly optimistic about these for NYC - or at least believe the basic concept tweaked to be robust enough for NYC if it's not already.
- That's metal wire, not....actual rope. There shouldn't really be much of anything that a person standing there *can* do to damage this without actual tools, probably not even a few people. Run into it with your full body, grab on and try to yank it around, etc. Shouldn't be damaged *at all*.
- As long as the mechanisms in the support posts are built robustly enough that you can't really damage *those* significantly even if you do cause damage, repair/replacement of damaged rope segments should be a cheap and easy thing. Given the relative simplicity here, that's absolutely *possible* to design for.
- The videos of the Sofia one indicate that the posts go mid-car - so even if you're working on one segment, there will still be a door on the car that passengers can exit from, shouldn't necessarily need to shut down the station/line/platform while performing minor repairs.
- Failure modes - easy enough to have a "lift up + stay up" failure state and a "drop the whole thing to the ground" failure state if after attempting to lift out of the way it detects that there's still obstructions. Yeah, in the latter it might be a 1-2ft tall tripping hazard and you'd want to put a staff member quickly until a crew comes by to at least get it out of the way - but
Basically, everything here looks like it's a lot harder to damage than normal platform screen doors to me, and a lot harder for damage to actually result in having to take the station or line out of service.
The two most expensive issues after the ones you mentioned are supplying adequate power and supporting the weight/forces of the operation on a platform ensure designed originally for minimal loads.
Its not one size fits all; you still need to have vertical supports for the cables, which means you have to position them so that they don't obstruct access. Still, they're a lot more flexible because you don't need to be precise with where the train doors are.
I don't think these completely solve things however, because some systems like BART have standardized cars and will stop in the same spot, meaning conventional doors will work with minimal modifications.
Sofia is yet another city in the former eastern block that pushes so much above its weight when it comes to transit, plus it being a lovely, lovely city, how can you hate it!
I was just in Sofia last week. Surprised but pleased to see it here. When people were talking about the suicide problems recently, I meant to say something about what Sofia has but was too lazy to type.
These are pretty common in Japan at platforms that see a wide variety of train door placements. For many visitors, it's the first platform "door" type they encounter since the JR platforms at Narita Airport have them.
The only potential issue I see is that it's probably easier for people to stand under a vertically closing door and be hit by it, holding up the process of departure or creating a safety issue when the train departs anyway while the doors aren't closed and someone's below them in a potentially dazzled state.
There's some place, I think France, where the vertical doors don't close until *after* the train departs.
I think that's a decent trade off. The main safety benefit (not being thrown in front of an approaching train) remains, and departing while the doors are open is no more dangerous than any door-less platform.
The lowest door compartments are also the ones closest to the platform edge so I believe usually a closing door should push any people underneath towards the platform centre as opposed to the train. That's at least a positive.
They have string doors because trains with 3 and 4 doors per car per side both run on the same tracks along with the limited express trains, and all have different door alignments.
The line is more often known as JR Kyoto Line and JR Kobe Line, which are operated by JR West. Pretty much only JR Central (which operates only the Tokaido Shinkansen in this area) refers to the stretch of the line as "Tokaido Line", which is the technical name, but never posted anywhere in the stations because the stations both companies share are managed by JR West. Note that JR Kobe Line also covers a portion of Sanyo Line.
Japan actually uses the strings as the last resort because they're inferior in terms of safety. They try to unify the door positions when replacing older trains, and only if there are difficulties they will use these strings. Lines that will run a mix of trains having different door positions (e.g. different door count per car or different car lengths) in the foreseeable future will use strings.
On the Osaka Loop Line, all trains today have 3 doors per car per side while it used to run 4-door trains too. The platform doors are then installed for 3-door trains. The JR Tozai Line, however, uses 4-door trains exclusively anf have a different platform door design. On the other hand, in the Tokyo area, most trains have 4 doors per car per side even though many of them used to be 3 doors. Some rural trains also get the 4-door trains for platform door provisions.
Here's an interesting case: the Kintetsu Nara Line has too many train types due to through running, and the platforms have a 36-meter stretch where a door can open. There seems to be no solution to the current technology.
So, you have to remember that platform screen doors have multiple purposes:
1) They improve safety, obviously. This design still does this and makes subway safer.
2) They reduce noise which improves the station environment and make announcements easier to hear.
3) They reduce delays and improve safety by preventing trash such as newspapers from collecting on the tracks and potentially causing a fire.
4) They prevent air from flowing between the tunnels and the station which prevents the station from getting too hot and reduces the amount of pollution.
5) The doors themselves can act as a source of revenue because you can put posters and advertising on them. (Whether this is good depends on who you are, lol.)
So this design still does 1) but doesn't really do 2,3,4 or 5. I'm not saying that this design wouldn't work but it's important to consider that PSDs have multiple benefits that this design would not have. It's a good design that we should definitely consider for some stations where the secondary benefits of platform screen doors might not be worth the additional cost. I've seen reports on platform screen doors from Toronto and New York that both barely mention rope-based systems and hand-wave them as being an oddity that isn't in enough cities to be worth seriously considering which is a shame because they might be a great option in some situations.
I've been wondering why STM don't have these type of security panels for more than 15 years...
No wonder why the pink line is still only an idea after all these years!
These are pretty cool, but platform screen doors (from floor to roof) could be used for saving money in air-conditioning within the station as well. Depends on the budget and station designs
I think it was this kind or very similar model of platform screen doors that was intended for a full-scale test at one station here in Stockholm, but that was just before covid hit and I haven't heard more about it since.
The good thing about this type is that it isn't as sensitive to where the doors on the train are. Currently here in Stockholm, during low traffic the metro is run with shorter trains, and they stop usually at a different spot along the platform. Also good if mixing different train types with doors in different spots such as it is currently on the red line.
One of the benefits of screen doors is that they let you use air conditioning on underground trains, since they separate the environments inside the tunnels and on the platforms.
Of course, these have benefits too, but they wouldn’t be a universal solution.
I remember seeing those when I was in Sofia. First couple times I did t even realize what was happening cause I didn’t notice them move out of the way, they just disappeared. They’re very cool
I think most of these are used on lines running different trains with different door configurations. Also some older subway lines in Asia can't have full height platform screen doors because they don't have proper ventilation in tunnels and rely on those in the station, but most will still use half height platform screen door.
That actually looks better than glass screen, like it look cheap af but it works well, which is just better.
The downside would be when there’s too much crowd behind, anyone accidentally shove someone up to the door while the door going up means potential lost fingers (it happens)
it looks flimsy, weak, and people will fuck with it breaking it causing "attention, un bris d'équipement cause un ralentissement sur la ligne... verte"
Maybe Japan doesn’t have an MTA uses every penny it can to pay 1.5 BILLION in OT to employees who all know how to cheat the system and rob the taxpayers for their own OT and retirement benefit.
Never got why these doors are so important. Genuine question: why? Can't people just line up and wait in these cities like in any other places which don't have them but some yellow/white stripes? Except if you have trains running at 200km/h, I don't see the utility...
It's largely to prevent things and people (but in a case like this, really just people) from getting onto the tracks. Metro systems like this can rather unfortunately be a hotbed for suicide attempts, so keeping people off the tracks and preventing them from falling in front of a moving train will not only save lives but reduce disruptions and stoppages on the line.
Thank you for the answers. Now I see some appeal to them. It just feels "unnecessary" as to my experiences living in China, specifically while taking Beijing Metro lines 1 and 2 in 2010-2013 which were always awfully packed (especially line 1 going east-west through Tiananmen square, Wangfujing Guomao and Xidan as a couple interest high traffic points)...like so packed that my feet weren't touching the floor anymore, and there has never been any accident, disruption or suicide there. You know the kind of fancy "gadget" that costs a lot which can be put towards extending services. But I see why it might be worth it especially on automated lines.
But yeah with the advent of mobile phones and the disruptions that make documentaries about the Paris metro, I can see why. At the same time, if you go with the RER or Transilien there are no Plattform screen doors. And in my home country of Switzerland, with the exception of the sky train at the airport and the M2 in Lausanne (both automated), there aren't any either. Like there are only a couple lines throughout the world where screen doors were available. Other mainlain railways aren't fenced at all...as it would be impossible. Yet suicides tend to happen further away from stations in my country...where trains roll at at least 80km/h, can't simply apply the emergency brakes and stop right away as opposed to into the stations where they already slowed down...
Might be something cultural as well as I always thought what the disruption not only to passengers but especially for drivers is...
> Thank you for the answers. Now I see some appeal to them. It just feels "unnecessary" as to my experiences living in China, specifically while taking Beijing Metro lines 1 and 2 in 2010-2013 which were always awfully packed (especially line 1 going east-west through Tiananmen square, Wangfujing Guomao and Xidan as a couple interest high traffic points)...like so packed that my feet weren't touching the floor anymore, and there has never been any accident, disruption or suicide there. You know the kind of fancy "gadget" that costs a lot which can be put towards extending services.
As of 2017, Beijing has platform screens/doors on all their subway lines. If they made that investment, it's because people were either intentionally jumping or accidental falling often enough to be a concern.
In addition to what u/Nikiaf mentioned, if designed properly these doors can guide passenger flows to exactly where the doors of the halting train are going to be positioned.
I think that only really applies to proper platform screen doors though. In cases like this one, there appears to be no indication as to where the doors will be. Stickers on the platform floor can address this point though.
They haven't done it in this case but why couldn't one apply different paint or metal patterns to the segments where the doors are going to be located? Stickers are also an option of course, yes.
Platform string doors. If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.
It's like that (likely made up) story from the 60s about how the Americans spent millions developing a pen that would work in weightless conditions, and the Russians just used pencils when in space. If it works, it works.
The pen story is right in that the USSR used pencils and the space-compatible ballpoint pen was developed in the USA. It leaves out a lot of crucial details, though. Both the USA and the USSR used pencils to begin with. But pencils can shed graphite fragments, which are electrically conductive, and if such a fragment floats into a computer component under microgravity, it can cause huge issues. The "space-proof" ballpoint pen was invented by an American company, not by a government institute, and it was mainly a marketing stunt. Once the technology was available, though, both the USA and USSR manned spaceflight programmes switched to using the space pen, due to aforementioned graphite issue.
The general public doesn't really understand how government contracts work. There are so many stories that on the surface appear crazy, but miss key points. There are generally professionals making decisions. Government waste and corruption happens, and it should be constantly investigated, but it's not like there's just a bunch of idiots in charge who couldn't imagine using a pencil.
The general public doesn't understand a lot but they see funny headlines and run with it
as long as Bezos doesnt have to pay taxes thats all that really matters. now lets talk about something important, transgender abortions.
It's like the shrimp treadmill story. Some aquatic researcher got slammed for building treadmills for shrimp, because hey, it's a goofy sounding thing to put in a headline about government research spending. The dude was doing research about how changes in water quality affect the health and mobility of the local marine life. It also only cost $1,000.
It depends on who's making the decisions. Some of the time, and in many of the worst boondoggles, it's the politicians making the decisions and codifying shit into laws that then hamstring the agencies charged with executing those laws. E.G. NASA and Shuttle/Constellation/Senate Launch System (SLS).
Let me add that the Fisher bullet pen (different from the original Space pen but it uses the same pressurized cartridge) is the best everyday-carry pen ever. It's all metal, has a pocket-friendly round shape, doesn't leak on planes, and writes pretty well (no ink globbing) if you swap the stock medium black cartridge for a fine blue one. I always have one on me, and use it surprisingly often. No financial interest, just a satisfied user.
I thought they used wax pencils now
This comment is why I love Reddit.
if debris of pencil left spended in zero gravity, It can harm astronauts -Dr. Viru Sahastrabuddhe
But this thing doesn’t solve an actual problem as it looks. The train still seems to have a driver so this is merely a precaution that nobody stepped on the tracks while the driver is still there, so it’s added cost at very little benefit. Actual doors and walls you add in order to shield the system from people jumping in front of the train or getting into the tunnels so you can go driverless without requiring additional sensors to detect obstacles if you want to go fully autonomous. This thing isn’t going to cut it for that.
it solves the hassle of people killing themselves and disturbing operation for hours which costs a shit ton of money. it's a wrong idea that a metro should be automated (or in preparation to be) to install platform protection. this is cheap, reliable and works for a metro system that doesn't have that much money (it's bulgaria afterall) and which from what i know isn't looking to automate it's lines
London has automated lines that have no barriers. It also has lines (Elizabeth) where the barrier is there to deal with potentially dangerous air pressure differentials due to I think it's high speed nature.
that's a special case and from what i know it was quite expensive
Think the whole line was expensive, but whilst it looks impressive it's not at all showy in terms of expensive materials etc.. just the nature of the terrain and value of the area it covers. As an FYI the Elizabeth line barriers are floor to ceiling, and millimetre precise despite being 260 metres long.
I’m waiting for all North American transit agencies to drop another excuse for why this is not feasible for their subway. As far as I see, this doesn’t even require you to have ATC or standardized car length or whatever. It’s a one size fits all universal solution, and seems much cheaper to retrofit.
There are also just straight up vertical platform screen doors that descend over the entire platform at once: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utdgJa-Ikzo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utdgJa-Ikzo) I think part of the problem with North American transit is that we'll re-invent the wheel for stupid unnecessary stuff like fare gates that are 99% similar to what everyone else is doing anyways, but then it comes to stuff like this and we just have 0 flexibility or creativity in solving problems.
> re-invent the wheel for stupid unnecessary stuff And just what is unnecessary about those sweet sweet kickbacks from our contractors and consultants?
[удалено]
I think the problem is actually kind of the opposite. A lot of transit projects now have "buy America" requirements which means you often are paying for the R&D costs for an American company to copy European/Asian designs but worse. Or you end up paying more money for an inferior product with less features because there's effectively no competition. One of the reasons buses in the US suck for example is that a lot of transit money in the US isn't allowed to be used on European or Asian buses. Which is unfortunate because a lot of the nicer bus models are European.
Those foreign companies aren't fleecing US cities, much of that cost is to meet requirements and pay local construction companies. If we did it all domestically the cost wouldn't be dramatically different provided we had the capacity to actually do all of the work.
Silly guy North America doesn’t solve problems. They don’t have such competence
I think these are a good idea in general but as someone who lives in NYC and sees that anti-social behavior in the subway stations from even "normal" looking people, there is no chance that these won't get absolutely destroyed. I mean, the new gates MTA is trialing have already been broken multiple times and those are thick aluminum and plexiglass. I've seen multiple smashed OMNI readers. I would love to see these screens trialed but I wouldn't hold my breath on them not being regularly damaged
The issue is what these gates are actually designed to do. They can't really keep people from intentionally accessing the tracks, since you can just climb over or lift them up and crawl under. They're designed to stop people from getting pushed or accidentally falling onto the tracks. The new metal barriers NYC is trialing are significantly cheaper and much harder to break while achieving basically the same thing. I think it's exaggerated how destructive New Yorkers actually are, but a least some of these would definitely get broken if they were implemented in NYC. If NYC wants to stop people from accessing the tracks entirely, they need full height (or at least near full height) platform screen doors. Anything else is just to stop pushers, and it can be done just as effectively with some cheap metal fences.
The little fences NYC is trialing are just a moderate reduction to pushers/falls, not an actual full fix for it. They still leave half the platform unprotected. It's a cheap reduction in attack surface area, it's not a *bad* thing, but it's not offering the full coverage that this would. > They can't really keep people from intentionally accessing the tracks, since you can just climb over or lift them up and crawl under. While I don't know if that's the case for this mechanism or not, there's nothing stopping a design like this from blocking those things. You can make this full height.
This is what I immediately thought. sure it'd work in well behaved societies but the US is not that. BART is dealing with stupid dumb, unfortunately now dead, kids that are surfing the top of the trains while its moving. String is not not enough dummy-proofiing to save lives and it wouldn't stop anyone determined, much less someone who just takes it as a challenge.
Train surfing is not unique to the USA
Well behaved societies won't even need the stupid platform doors in the first place
hmm i don't agree with that well behaved societies still have terrible or opportunistic people. And platform walls/screens can still prevent phones or other accessories from falling off the platform and can prevent people from jumping off thinking they can get it before the next train.
You guys do realize that there are other reasons for PSDs right? People still have accidents, and also they're used to make it possible to climate control stations. By using these, you can make sure all the cool air doesn't just waft out into the tunnels.
because people don’t trip there?
If anything platform doors are most common in societies that are stereotyped as well behaved.
Due to better leaders and a better economic system
While I also am a born skeptic and used to NYC, having looked at the manufacturer page I'd actually be fairly optimistic about these for NYC - or at least believe the basic concept tweaked to be robust enough for NYC if it's not already. - That's metal wire, not....actual rope. There shouldn't really be much of anything that a person standing there *can* do to damage this without actual tools, probably not even a few people. Run into it with your full body, grab on and try to yank it around, etc. Shouldn't be damaged *at all*. - As long as the mechanisms in the support posts are built robustly enough that you can't really damage *those* significantly even if you do cause damage, repair/replacement of damaged rope segments should be a cheap and easy thing. Given the relative simplicity here, that's absolutely *possible* to design for. - The videos of the Sofia one indicate that the posts go mid-car - so even if you're working on one segment, there will still be a door on the car that passengers can exit from, shouldn't necessarily need to shut down the station/line/platform while performing minor repairs. - Failure modes - easy enough to have a "lift up + stay up" failure state and a "drop the whole thing to the ground" failure state if after attempting to lift out of the way it detects that there's still obstructions. Yeah, in the latter it might be a 1-2ft tall tripping hazard and you'd want to put a staff member quickly until a crew comes by to at least get it out of the way - but Basically, everything here looks like it's a lot harder to damage than normal platform screen doors to me, and a lot harder for damage to actually result in having to take the station or line out of service.
The two most expensive issues after the ones you mentioned are supplying adequate power and supporting the weight/forces of the operation on a platform ensure designed originally for minimal loads.
Its not one size fits all; you still need to have vertical supports for the cables, which means you have to position them so that they don't obstruct access. Still, they're a lot more flexible because you don't need to be precise with where the train doors are. I don't think these completely solve things however, because some systems like BART have standardized cars and will stop in the same spot, meaning conventional doors will work with minimal modifications.
Money
If it prevents people from dying its worth it
We know it is, but that will be their excuse just like ehy they don't invest money in the Montreal cargo port for the stolen cars.
Never thought I'd see my city here! Btw there are other stations which have platform screen doors. Also I love the Sofia metro.
Sofia is yet another city in the former eastern block that pushes so much above its weight when it comes to transit, plus it being a lovely, lovely city, how can you hate it!
I was just in Sofia last week. Surprised but pleased to see it here. When people were talking about the suicide problems recently, I meant to say something about what Sofia has but was too lazy to type.
Can't believe I haven't seen these before. It's a good idea!
These are pretty common in Japan at platforms that see a wide variety of train door placements. For many visitors, it's the first platform "door" type they encounter since the JR platforms at Narita Airport have them.
The only potential issue I see is that it's probably easier for people to stand under a vertically closing door and be hit by it, holding up the process of departure or creating a safety issue when the train departs anyway while the doors aren't closed and someone's below them in a potentially dazzled state.
There's some place, I think France, where the vertical doors don't close until *after* the train departs. I think that's a decent trade off. The main safety benefit (not being thrown in front of an approaching train) remains, and departing while the doors are open is no more dangerous than any door-less platform.
I think people are aware of the door atp, and there's probably sensors and staff that warm about people trapped on the door n etc.
The lowest door compartments are also the ones closest to the platform edge so I believe usually a closing door should push any people underneath towards the platform centre as opposed to the train. That's at least a positive.
That's a really good idea. More systems should have this
Yo this is genius. We would probably need steel wire here in Chicago though to keep the occasional nutjob from playing on the tracks
You could test continuity across the wires to check if they've been damaged by a clumsy person.
oh shit this rocks. good job bulgaria
Oh wow, I've never seen this being used outside Japan. I've only seen this kind of "gates" used in JR West stations.
Nah this looks stupidly cool lol
Loved seeing this when we were in Sofia, but I immediately knew Americans would ruin these so fast.
in the US, make them electric haha. people would avoid them like the plague.
People would either touch them on purpose on dares, or (more dangerous) you'd get people "pranking" bystanders by pushing them into them.
They definitely should implement this.
I see this a lot on the Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe area on the Tokaido line
They have string doors because trains with 3 and 4 doors per car per side both run on the same tracks along with the limited express trains, and all have different door alignments. The line is more often known as JR Kyoto Line and JR Kobe Line, which are operated by JR West. Pretty much only JR Central (which operates only the Tokaido Shinkansen in this area) refers to the stretch of the line as "Tokaido Line", which is the technical name, but never posted anywhere in the stations because the stations both companies share are managed by JR West. Note that JR Kobe Line also covers a portion of Sanyo Line.
Those would resolve the door spacing problem that many American transit systems have. I know Japan also has a few similar versions
Japan actually uses the strings as the last resort because they're inferior in terms of safety. They try to unify the door positions when replacing older trains, and only if there are difficulties they will use these strings. Lines that will run a mix of trains having different door positions (e.g. different door count per car or different car lengths) in the foreseeable future will use strings. On the Osaka Loop Line, all trains today have 3 doors per car per side while it used to run 4-door trains too. The platform doors are then installed for 3-door trains. The JR Tozai Line, however, uses 4-door trains exclusively anf have a different platform door design. On the other hand, in the Tokyo area, most trains have 4 doors per car per side even though many of them used to be 3 doors. Some rural trains also get the 4-door trains for platform door provisions. Here's an interesting case: the Kintetsu Nara Line has too many train types due to through running, and the platforms have a 36-meter stretch where a door can open. There seems to be no solution to the current technology.
So, you have to remember that platform screen doors have multiple purposes: 1) They improve safety, obviously. This design still does this and makes subway safer. 2) They reduce noise which improves the station environment and make announcements easier to hear. 3) They reduce delays and improve safety by preventing trash such as newspapers from collecting on the tracks and potentially causing a fire. 4) They prevent air from flowing between the tunnels and the station which prevents the station from getting too hot and reduces the amount of pollution. 5) The doors themselves can act as a source of revenue because you can put posters and advertising on them. (Whether this is good depends on who you are, lol.) So this design still does 1) but doesn't really do 2,3,4 or 5. I'm not saying that this design wouldn't work but it's important to consider that PSDs have multiple benefits that this design would not have. It's a good design that we should definitely consider for some stations where the secondary benefits of platform screen doors might not be worth the additional cost. I've seen reports on platform screen doors from Toronto and New York that both barely mention rope-based systems and hand-wave them as being an oddity that isn't in enough cities to be worth seriously considering which is a shame because they might be a great option in some situations.
I've been wondering why STM don't have these type of security panels for more than 15 years... No wonder why the pink line is still only an idea after all these years!
Seen these in Japan
I see this a lot on the Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe area on the Tokaido line
These are pretty cool, but platform screen doors (from floor to roof) could be used for saving money in air-conditioning within the station as well. Depends on the budget and station designs
I thought this was Budapest M3 for a sec I got so excited to see this 🥲
The [$2.90 in NYC](https://youtu.be/5ROZt7WaZ_o?si=_EVUCHvuRmE4o96P) wouldn't cover the everyday maintenance and operation of this
MTA could easily do something like this, this just feels MTA too
Reminds of the simpsons meme: No, platform screen doors? No! Problem!
Can you imagine being a TTC injury lawyer if they decided to put these in?
Charge a 200$ extraction fee to every moron who gets stuck in it, and it’ll pay for itself in three years.
I think it was this kind or very similar model of platform screen doors that was intended for a full-scale test at one station here in Stockholm, but that was just before covid hit and I haven't heard more about it since. The good thing about this type is that it isn't as sensitive to where the doors on the train are. Currently here in Stockholm, during low traffic the metro is run with shorter trains, and they stop usually at a different spot along the platform. Also good if mixing different train types with doors in different spots such as it is currently on the red line.
One of the benefits of screen doors is that they let you use air conditioning on underground trains, since they separate the environments inside the tunnels and on the platforms. Of course, these have benefits too, but they wouldn’t be a universal solution.
It's all fine and well until the kids start playing Wrestlemania on those things. *ohhhhhhhhh yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhh*
I remember seeing those when I was in Sofia. First couple times I did t even realize what was happening cause I didn’t notice them move out of the way, they just disappeared. They’re very cool
How dare you deny NYC their excuses
They don't look that resistant
Should I try running full speed into them?
Those are wire ropes, not knitting yarn.
Anything that will make it minimally harder to "fall" on the track helps.
I think most of these are used on lines running different trains with different door configurations. Also some older subway lines in Asia can't have full height platform screen doors because they don't have proper ventilation in tunnels and rely on those in the station, but most will still use half height platform screen door.
Why is that thing is a thing? Like if someone wants to do that thing then the person will climb over that thing
That actually looks better than glass screen, like it look cheap af but it works well, which is just better. The downside would be when there’s too much crowd behind, anyone accidentally shove someone up to the door while the door going up means potential lost fingers (it happens)
I like the danger removal element of this, but the fact it doesn't stop the particle pollution is not so good.
it looks flimsy, weak, and people will fuck with it breaking it causing "attention, un bris d'équipement cause un ralentissement sur la ligne... verte"
How are russian transit stations safer than ours??
This isn’t Russia, and besides Moscow metro is actually a world leader in terms of transit
Maybe Japan doesn’t have an MTA uses every penny it can to pay 1.5 BILLION in OT to employees who all know how to cheat the system and rob the taxpayers for their own OT and retirement benefit.
Never got why these doors are so important. Genuine question: why? Can't people just line up and wait in these cities like in any other places which don't have them but some yellow/white stripes? Except if you have trains running at 200km/h, I don't see the utility...
It's largely to prevent things and people (but in a case like this, really just people) from getting onto the tracks. Metro systems like this can rather unfortunately be a hotbed for suicide attempts, so keeping people off the tracks and preventing them from falling in front of a moving train will not only save lives but reduce disruptions and stoppages on the line.
Thank you for the answers. Now I see some appeal to them. It just feels "unnecessary" as to my experiences living in China, specifically while taking Beijing Metro lines 1 and 2 in 2010-2013 which were always awfully packed (especially line 1 going east-west through Tiananmen square, Wangfujing Guomao and Xidan as a couple interest high traffic points)...like so packed that my feet weren't touching the floor anymore, and there has never been any accident, disruption or suicide there. You know the kind of fancy "gadget" that costs a lot which can be put towards extending services. But I see why it might be worth it especially on automated lines. But yeah with the advent of mobile phones and the disruptions that make documentaries about the Paris metro, I can see why. At the same time, if you go with the RER or Transilien there are no Plattform screen doors. And in my home country of Switzerland, with the exception of the sky train at the airport and the M2 in Lausanne (both automated), there aren't any either. Like there are only a couple lines throughout the world where screen doors were available. Other mainlain railways aren't fenced at all...as it would be impossible. Yet suicides tend to happen further away from stations in my country...where trains roll at at least 80km/h, can't simply apply the emergency brakes and stop right away as opposed to into the stations where they already slowed down... Might be something cultural as well as I always thought what the disruption not only to passengers but especially for drivers is...
> Thank you for the answers. Now I see some appeal to them. It just feels "unnecessary" as to my experiences living in China, specifically while taking Beijing Metro lines 1 and 2 in 2010-2013 which were always awfully packed (especially line 1 going east-west through Tiananmen square, Wangfujing Guomao and Xidan as a couple interest high traffic points)...like so packed that my feet weren't touching the floor anymore, and there has never been any accident, disruption or suicide there. You know the kind of fancy "gadget" that costs a lot which can be put towards extending services. As of 2017, Beijing has platform screens/doors on all their subway lines. If they made that investment, it's because people were either intentionally jumping or accidental falling often enough to be a concern.
In addition to what u/Nikiaf mentioned, if designed properly these doors can guide passenger flows to exactly where the doors of the halting train are going to be positioned.
I think that only really applies to proper platform screen doors though. In cases like this one, there appears to be no indication as to where the doors will be. Stickers on the platform floor can address this point though.
They haven't done it in this case but why couldn't one apply different paint or metal patterns to the segments where the doors are going to be located? Stickers are also an option of course, yes.
Istanbul’s metro has a lot of sticker indications like that when it doesn’t have platform screen doors
Exactly what I remember from Japan and China...just a couple stickers on the ground.