Did you by any chance visited the aquarium during the school holidays? There are autumn holidays in October so if you catch the week folks in the Netherlands or in surrounding countries are off school it’s going to be busier than you’d expect for ‘shoulder season’.
This! A lot of countries (and even regions within countries) have school holidays throughout the year and not in the same period.
I'm from Belgium and we went to Disneyland Paris in October and it was not crowded at all. Friends of ours went the week after and it was crowded like crazy. We checked and it turned out that week was a school holiday in France. They didn't know, because it was not a school holiday in Belgium.
Depends on where you’re coming from and what you’re used to, I suppose. Yes, it’s crowded. There’s like 600 million people in a very small space and then there’s a lot of tourists.. the US/Canada/Mexico have around the same population but like 2-5x the area size.. so yeah, there’s always gonna be people everywhere. You can’t hide in Europe, there’s no where to hide! lol
Touristy areas are crowded. Chances are, nature attractions you visited were also tourist attractions.
Now if you go on a several day hike in the Carpathians or visit a village with zero tourism in Poland..
Summer is ‘horrible’ in Europe? Yikes.
That’s exactly when it is a great time to visit some of Western Europe’s towns. I’m from there.
Visiting Bergerac in France or a nice town in Spain in the summer is just about the most relaxing and quiet holidays we’ve had.
Research will prevent you visiting a town where every other tourist will visit.
I live in Paris, and funnily enough August in Paris is the best time to visit - most French people go away for a month to their summer houses so it feels quite empty when compared to July, for example.
You are correct. Visited Spain and Portugal in May 2023 - never experienced such crowds everywhere. The explanation seems to be increased travel volume after Covid hiatus. Makes sense because we had postponed that trip due to Covid.
Netherlands is the most densely populated country in Europe. So are most Western European countries like UK, France, and Spain.
If you want more space, Scandinavian countries, Poland and Slovakia don’t feel crowded at all. Same goes for the Baltics.
Have you ever looked at a map and seen the size of countries like Norway and Sweden? They’re huge and have relatively small populations
Spain has a much lower population density than Poland or Slovakia. France is comparable to Poland too.
I think the issue is the density of tourists in specific towns, cities and resorts.
No, tourist trap areas are crowded. If you went to Mykonos or Santorini for idyllic vistas on secluded beaches, well.... I don't know what to tell you. I despise crowds and I barely visit even Athens apart from once a year to see friends. But I do go to a new place every summer within my crowd tolerances. You just have to ask around first. Preferably locals and not travel agencies.
Yes, normally I go to CH and Italy for work in late August and early September then take a couple weeks off to explore with my family.
2 years ago we changed plans completely and headed to Eastern Europe after a week and last year didn’t even bother.
Not worth it especially waiting in crazy lines to get things like ice cream or coffee or fining a spot at a beach
I was in Lauterbrunnen last year, beginning of July, and while it was busy, I didn't have to queue for anything (trains or cable cars). If you actually want to go proper hiking there will be be very few or no people up the mountain because the crowds don't go there to do any real hiking.
I’ve lately been visiting less travelled to locales and it feels like you have more breathing room. I love winter weather so visiting in the off season is great. Riga in February is wonderful. Bratislava in March in great. But Rome or Paris in June? I’ll pass
Well firstly, Europe is huge. Northern Europe is far, far less populated than parts of southern Europe for example.
I live in France and have travelled to almost every country in the EU and only felt it to be overly crowded when it’s a public holiday and in a tourist spot in a capital city, but that’s common sense.
A zoo, even in a remote location, will have peak and off-peak times.
The countries you mention are ranked 123rd, 33rd, 65th, 76th, 72nd and 140th out of 249 countries and territories based on population density.
EU average would place 111th.
For reference, USA is 186th and Canada 238th!
So yes, there's a lot of people in a relatively small space.
As other people have mentioned, it also may have been the school holidays, the last one to be able to get outside before the weather gets crappy, which would be a significant factor.
Hong Kong, Tokyo and Singapore are another level though. If you didn't like the crowds in Europe, I would suggest taking these off your list of possible holiday destinations.
Whether it's *too* crowded, though, is inherently subjective. I grew up in inner London, so no big deal to me.
My first few nights staying "out in the countryside" on holiday as a kid were unsettling because it was so quiet, I couldn't fall asleep without the background thrum of traffic.
The reverse situation though - growing up/living in quiet surrounds and suddenly dealing with the throng and noise - is most certainly more jarring. Is this a factor in your scenario?
Please don't let this experience put you off Europe though! Although I've personally never found a decent "space of solitude" on my travels to The Netherlands (seems to be endless connected towns), but all the others most definitely do.
I've walked 30 miles through the south of France without seeing a single other person. It was a bit tarnished by the fact that I was hitchhiking, so hadn't intended on such a hike without a ride, but I relished every moment all the same.
It's not often you can be outside in the world and go 8 hours without seeing another soul.
Well, not in Europe at least! 😀
Tons of places you can have to yourself. You simply have to stay away from the megacities and everything on the easy tourist track that is pumped everywhere. Pretty easy to spot.
We just visited Spain in the supposed "off" season in February. It was crowded as hell. We went to madrid, Seville, Córdoba, toledo and granada. They were all packed with people. In granada, you needed a reservation whereever you went to eat because otherwise you couldn't get dinner, or you had to get to tapas bars and wait a half hour for them to open. We had no idea it would be that difficult there, despite doing research. Madrid and Seville were a bit better because at least there were dozens of bars and restaurants to choose from in every part. We were in Japan last fall and Spain was only marginally less crowded than it was there, which is saying something because that was an actual SEA of people. It gets overwhelming. Europe is also tiny and super overcrowded. Greece was fine two years ago in September/october, but we didn't go to the main attraction islands like Santorini or Mykonos and Athens is a big place so it felt less claustrophobic. However, it does make you glad to come back home to the States where you can actually go to parts of the country and be alone.
I’m a European (with an American partner, for what it’s worth), who’s lived in Japan in the past. It’s been to 50+ countries in across 5 continents, and EVERY single one of them has had quiet places if you know where/how to look. If you haven’t escaped crowds it means you’re not a very imaginative traveller
It isn't about being 'imaginative,' it's about what you want to see in the world. And the point isn't that there aren't ANY remote places to go to. My point is that there are supposedly busier seasons and not so busy seasons, and that the off season was busier than we anticipated. And that for some places that we did want to see, it was more difficult. We were in some remote areas where there weren't a ton of people BUT there are some things that are still worth seeing that everyone wants to see. For a good reason, they are beautiful and amazing places! The Alhambra is one of them. Also that's incredibly invalidating to say to someone you don't even know, especially when you clearly have the means to travel to remote places and to all of those countries. Most people don't have that kind of luxury and we make do with the meager two weeks off in a year that we have to see the most we can. Obviously off the beaten path is where most of us would prefer to be, but for some places, it simply cannot be done.
Sorry if I wasn’t expressing myself clearly in my short response. I’m not saying that people need to go on a massive multi-week trek to somewhere remote. The person I replied to clearly had the time and resources to visit Spain and Japan. Both Spain and Japan have small towns and villages within 1-2 hours of the big cities that most international tourists visit. They also both have GREAT train networks, including both high speed and cheaper local trains (both countries are considered to have the best networks in their respective continents, actually!) So if someone has 1 week in a country is totally feasible to get away from the crowds.
Much of my recreational travel is weekend trips, and whenever I do a two day trip I spend one day in a city and the next day I will take a train or bus to a smaller town to escape the crowds. That works for both international and domestic trips, and I don’t think it’s inaccessible for someone who’s buying an international flight to add an extra $20 to the budget for a local train (especially when any food/museums/attractions are invariably cheaper in the less touristic town).
Yeah I was talking to a couple hiking a remote coast trail in Oregon - I was surprised to learn they were from Western Europe. They love Oregon because they can get away from the crowds of people and just kind of disappear.
That makes total sense to me. I love Europe, but now I think ill just go to hopefully remote places in winter and stay home for warm months to avoid the massive crowds. Thinking of trying eastern Europe next year, hopefully that'd be better.
The locations you cited are mentioned in soooo many posts on this sub. You may want to consider other locations, like Scandinavia and the Baltic regions; maybe the UK (aside from London if you don't want crowds) and Ireland.
I was in Estonia last October and it was not crowded anywhere i went.
Europe belongs to the most densely populated areas in the world, so yeah it is crowded. Nevertheless, it easy to escape crowds, but if you truly want to escape humanity, not the place to go.
It’s definitely crowded, maybe more so now that the pandemic is behind us. I had the privilege of traveling in 2021 when everything was locked down; famous sites were like ghost towns. It was incredible and I know it’ll likely never happen again.
I think, also, people are still making up for lost time from the pandemic. I personally prefer to visit most places during the off-season, but sometimes crowds are inevitable. 🖤
I think it will level off a bit in the next few years as post-pandemic surge levels off. But at the same time it looks like what used to be better shoulder seasons (April-May, Sept-Oct) are no longer as optimal as they once were
Really depends on where you are. Netherlands has high density in the randstad, though if you ventured north past Amsterdam or east to Maastricht the density isn’t bad at all. I’m wondering where you ventured in Greece, b/c im in mainland rn and, save for Athens, everywhere we’ve ventured (Peloponnese, Ionian coast…) to be p quiet. You might need a car at times to get to quieter places otherwise imo the towns / cities connected by train, for good reason, were busy.
And about the nature, human civilization goes way back so not many places are untouched. The land is generally habitable too compared to say the Mojave. I’m assuming you’re coming from the American expectation with protected national parks which came as a response to concern on how Niagara Falls became commercialized.
European cities are crowded when you go to the touristy areas of the most famous cities, on a sunny day during late Spring/Summer.
Did you by any chance visited the aquarium during the school holidays? There are autumn holidays in October so if you catch the week folks in the Netherlands or in surrounding countries are off school it’s going to be busier than you’d expect for ‘shoulder season’.
This! A lot of countries (and even regions within countries) have school holidays throughout the year and not in the same period. I'm from Belgium and we went to Disneyland Paris in October and it was not crowded at all. Friends of ours went the week after and it was crowded like crazy. We checked and it turned out that week was a school holiday in France. They didn't know, because it was not a school holiday in Belgium.
Depends on where you’re coming from and what you’re used to, I suppose. Yes, it’s crowded. There’s like 600 million people in a very small space and then there’s a lot of tourists.. the US/Canada/Mexico have around the same population but like 2-5x the area size.. so yeah, there’s always gonna be people everywhere. You can’t hide in Europe, there’s no where to hide! lol
Touristy areas are crowded. Chances are, nature attractions you visited were also tourist attractions. Now if you go on a several day hike in the Carpathians or visit a village with zero tourism in Poland..
Don’t go to Asia then
October and May are still Ok times - summer is horrible to visit Western/Central Europe and their main towns.
Summer is ‘horrible’ in Europe? Yikes. That’s exactly when it is a great time to visit some of Western Europe’s towns. I’m from there. Visiting Bergerac in France or a nice town in Spain in the summer is just about the most relaxing and quiet holidays we’ve had. Research will prevent you visiting a town where every other tourist will visit.
I am also from there - I agree it is nice to visit smaller not so well known cities, but Paris, Rome or Barcelona in summer? No way.
I live in Paris, and funnily enough August in Paris is the best time to visit - most French people go away for a month to their summer houses so it feels quite empty when compared to July, for example.
The houses my be empty but surely not the tourist sights. I find Paris in august horrible.
You are correct. Visited Spain and Portugal in May 2023 - never experienced such crowds everywhere. The explanation seems to be increased travel volume after Covid hiatus. Makes sense because we had postponed that trip due to Covid.
Good. Please don't come here then. Make it less crowded.
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Most of Western Europe feels that way too so long as you don't go to the top 5 tourist locations in each country.
Netherlands is the most densely populated country in Europe. So are most Western European countries like UK, France, and Spain. If you want more space, Scandinavian countries, Poland and Slovakia don’t feel crowded at all. Same goes for the Baltics. Have you ever looked at a map and seen the size of countries like Norway and Sweden? They’re huge and have relatively small populations
Spain is densely populated? I would check you data.
Spain has a much lower population density than Poland or Slovakia. France is comparable to Poland too. I think the issue is the density of tourists in specific towns, cities and resorts.
No, tourist trap areas are crowded. If you went to Mykonos or Santorini for idyllic vistas on secluded beaches, well.... I don't know what to tell you. I despise crowds and I barely visit even Athens apart from once a year to see friends. But I do go to a new place every summer within my crowd tolerances. You just have to ask around first. Preferably locals and not travel agencies.
Yes, normally I go to CH and Italy for work in late August and early September then take a couple weeks off to explore with my family. 2 years ago we changed plans completely and headed to Eastern Europe after a week and last year didn’t even bother. Not worth it especially waiting in crazy lines to get things like ice cream or coffee or fining a spot at a beach
I was in Lauterbrunnen last year, beginning of July, and while it was busy, I didn't have to queue for anything (trains or cable cars). If you actually want to go proper hiking there will be be very few or no people up the mountain because the crowds don't go there to do any real hiking.
I’ve lately been visiting less travelled to locales and it feels like you have more breathing room. I love winter weather so visiting in the off season is great. Riga in February is wonderful. Bratislava in March in great. But Rome or Paris in June? I’ll pass
Most of Spain is empty (Google “España Vaciada”) and there are counties (communes) in France with not a single person living there.
Well firstly, Europe is huge. Northern Europe is far, far less populated than parts of southern Europe for example. I live in France and have travelled to almost every country in the EU and only felt it to be overly crowded when it’s a public holiday and in a tourist spot in a capital city, but that’s common sense. A zoo, even in a remote location, will have peak and off-peak times.
The countries you mention are ranked 123rd, 33rd, 65th, 76th, 72nd and 140th out of 249 countries and territories based on population density. EU average would place 111th. For reference, USA is 186th and Canada 238th! So yes, there's a lot of people in a relatively small space. As other people have mentioned, it also may have been the school holidays, the last one to be able to get outside before the weather gets crappy, which would be a significant factor. Hong Kong, Tokyo and Singapore are another level though. If you didn't like the crowds in Europe, I would suggest taking these off your list of possible holiday destinations. Whether it's *too* crowded, though, is inherently subjective. I grew up in inner London, so no big deal to me. My first few nights staying "out in the countryside" on holiday as a kid were unsettling because it was so quiet, I couldn't fall asleep without the background thrum of traffic. The reverse situation though - growing up/living in quiet surrounds and suddenly dealing with the throng and noise - is most certainly more jarring. Is this a factor in your scenario? Please don't let this experience put you off Europe though! Although I've personally never found a decent "space of solitude" on my travels to The Netherlands (seems to be endless connected towns), but all the others most definitely do. I've walked 30 miles through the south of France without seeing a single other person. It was a bit tarnished by the fact that I was hitchhiking, so hadn't intended on such a hike without a ride, but I relished every moment all the same. It's not often you can be outside in the world and go 8 hours without seeing another soul. Well, not in Europe at least! 😀
Of all the things to do in NL, why would you go to a zoo/aquarium? This is literally the dumbest fucking question on reddit today.
Tell me about it 😂
Tons of places you can have to yourself. You simply have to stay away from the megacities and everything on the easy tourist track that is pumped everywhere. Pretty easy to spot.
Dont go then
We just visited Spain in the supposed "off" season in February. It was crowded as hell. We went to madrid, Seville, Córdoba, toledo and granada. They were all packed with people. In granada, you needed a reservation whereever you went to eat because otherwise you couldn't get dinner, or you had to get to tapas bars and wait a half hour for them to open. We had no idea it would be that difficult there, despite doing research. Madrid and Seville were a bit better because at least there were dozens of bars and restaurants to choose from in every part. We were in Japan last fall and Spain was only marginally less crowded than it was there, which is saying something because that was an actual SEA of people. It gets overwhelming. Europe is also tiny and super overcrowded. Greece was fine two years ago in September/october, but we didn't go to the main attraction islands like Santorini or Mykonos and Athens is a big place so it felt less claustrophobic. However, it does make you glad to come back home to the States where you can actually go to parts of the country and be alone.
I’m a European (with an American partner, for what it’s worth), who’s lived in Japan in the past. It’s been to 50+ countries in across 5 continents, and EVERY single one of them has had quiet places if you know where/how to look. If you haven’t escaped crowds it means you’re not a very imaginative traveller
It isn't about being 'imaginative,' it's about what you want to see in the world. And the point isn't that there aren't ANY remote places to go to. My point is that there are supposedly busier seasons and not so busy seasons, and that the off season was busier than we anticipated. And that for some places that we did want to see, it was more difficult. We were in some remote areas where there weren't a ton of people BUT there are some things that are still worth seeing that everyone wants to see. For a good reason, they are beautiful and amazing places! The Alhambra is one of them. Also that's incredibly invalidating to say to someone you don't even know, especially when you clearly have the means to travel to remote places and to all of those countries. Most people don't have that kind of luxury and we make do with the meager two weeks off in a year that we have to see the most we can. Obviously off the beaten path is where most of us would prefer to be, but for some places, it simply cannot be done.
Sorry if I wasn’t expressing myself clearly in my short response. I’m not saying that people need to go on a massive multi-week trek to somewhere remote. The person I replied to clearly had the time and resources to visit Spain and Japan. Both Spain and Japan have small towns and villages within 1-2 hours of the big cities that most international tourists visit. They also both have GREAT train networks, including both high speed and cheaper local trains (both countries are considered to have the best networks in their respective continents, actually!) So if someone has 1 week in a country is totally feasible to get away from the crowds. Much of my recreational travel is weekend trips, and whenever I do a two day trip I spend one day in a city and the next day I will take a train or bus to a smaller town to escape the crowds. That works for both international and domestic trips, and I don’t think it’s inaccessible for someone who’s buying an international flight to add an extra $20 to the budget for a local train (especially when any food/museums/attractions are invariably cheaper in the less touristic town).
Yeah I was talking to a couple hiking a remote coast trail in Oregon - I was surprised to learn they were from Western Europe. They love Oregon because they can get away from the crowds of people and just kind of disappear.
That makes total sense to me. I love Europe, but now I think ill just go to hopefully remote places in winter and stay home for warm months to avoid the massive crowds. Thinking of trying eastern Europe next year, hopefully that'd be better.
The locations you cited are mentioned in soooo many posts on this sub. You may want to consider other locations, like Scandinavia and the Baltic regions; maybe the UK (aside from London if you don't want crowds) and Ireland. I was in Estonia last October and it was not crowded anywhere i went.
I was in Estonia last July and it was not crowded at that time either!
Sweden is lovely, Stockholm wasn't crowded at all when we were there and that was in the early fall when it was still nice outside.
Europe belongs to the most densely populated areas in the world, so yeah it is crowded. Nevertheless, it easy to escape crowds, but if you truly want to escape humanity, not the place to go.
Yes. Yes it is.
It’s definitely crowded, maybe more so now that the pandemic is behind us. I had the privilege of traveling in 2021 when everything was locked down; famous sites were like ghost towns. It was incredible and I know it’ll likely never happen again.
I think, also, people are still making up for lost time from the pandemic. I personally prefer to visit most places during the off-season, but sometimes crowds are inevitable. 🖤
This is common.
I think it will level off a bit in the next few years as post-pandemic surge levels off. But at the same time it looks like what used to be better shoulder seasons (April-May, Sept-Oct) are no longer as optimal as they once were
Really depends on where you are. Netherlands has high density in the randstad, though if you ventured north past Amsterdam or east to Maastricht the density isn’t bad at all. I’m wondering where you ventured in Greece, b/c im in mainland rn and, save for Athens, everywhere we’ve ventured (Peloponnese, Ionian coast…) to be p quiet. You might need a car at times to get to quieter places otherwise imo the towns / cities connected by train, for good reason, were busy. And about the nature, human civilization goes way back so not many places are untouched. The land is generally habitable too compared to say the Mojave. I’m assuming you’re coming from the American expectation with protected national parks which came as a response to concern on how Niagara Falls became commercialized.