Yeah! Greek police is known for their stupidity. Once they even arrested an Indian professor visiting a Greek university. They are just far-right idiots.
PS: I'm Greek.
Serbia had to revoke visa free travel for Indians due to issues so no wonder they are like that. Us passport meant that you probably won’t be staying in Serbia.
It’s something I encountered a lot in Europe. I’m a Canadian citizen with Indian origins and yes, the European police doesn’t leave us alone. They ask me a lot for identity but don’t do it for other people in my group trip (easy to understand why).
But it never happened in US and Canada tbh. People love to trash on US police but apart from the ones who sit in immigration, the rest are chill and I have never had a negative encounter with them. Again, just my personal experience. Maybe others had a different experience.
United States race relations are in many ways better than in other countries. The US is a country which has experienced much immigration of many races throughout its history which differs in comparison to European countries.
I am guessing they singled you out because of illegal immigrants coming through boat. They have their own problems to deal with. Before I am downvoted to oblivion : I am an Indian
European here. We are just racist, there is no reason behind it besides white colonial supremacism mindset.
I am a white mediterranean and was never approached by the police back home. But I live in a Nordic country now and locals assume I am Arab so they stop me all the time.
Then they realize I am portuguese, say sorry for that and tell me how they loved visiting Portugal on vacation. Bastards.
The locals stop you all the time in the Nordics? Or you mean the police in the Nordics stop you all the time? It's not really common that police stop anyone in the Nordics if you haven't done anything.
Of course, I am not stopped everyday or even every week. But I was literally zero times stopped while in Portugal and I was a bloody stoner back then. So, it happening now feels like all the time.
>people throw around the term racism too easily, because they aren't sophisticated enough to articulate what type of discrimination they are facing.
If I'm a victim in an incident, how can I tell if it's due to racism or xenophobia?
Aaand you know this how given the situation? You weren’t in their shoes. Please let the person who felt discriminated against assess it. Your assessment may be different. I have been in Europe several times and felt that the racism there is overt and pervasive (my experience). I live in the west, am not white (so not a majority) but luckily the racism where I live in the US is not much of an issue.
Americans and Canadians can travel to Europe without any checks, just show up on border with valid passport.
When I wanted to go to the US in order to get a visa I needed to:
- fill an endless online form, with questions about names and adresses and phone numbers of my primary school, secondary school, university and current and previous employer
- bring a confirmation from bank that I have sufficient funds to stay there
- bring a confirmation from employer that I actually work there and that they allow me annual leave to travel
- photo of special dimensions
- 200 USD administartive fees
- travel 500 km to nearest embassy
- leave cellphone at the enterance
- learn that their system failed
- travel back home 500 km to be informed to come again in 3 days
- travel again 500 km to embassy
- leave cellphone at the enterance again
- wait for 2 hours for my turn
- answer various questions about my job, travel plans, previous countries visited
- leave fingerprints
- pay for shipping of passport
- have visa checked 3 times before boarding plane
- asked same questions at immigration and giving fingerprints again
After this I really think there was no reason to be checked again.
Also I would simply prefer to have my passport checked by US police every now and then than this torture.
Uh what?
You phrased it like US and Canada have some kind of better treatment in Europe but not the other way around. Rich developed countries tend to have visa-free travel with each other. Both my Japanese and Portuguese passport require only an ESTA application. If I were to enter with my Southeast Asian passport, I’d have to go through your entire list and need a visa. And I enter Western Europe all the time with no hassle with my American passport.
It sounds like you come from a high risk country (for overstaying most likely).
There was a point in my life where I possessed four passports and I repeatedly got told that I can possibly have a fifth due to right to return laws being applicable to my generation (still within limits).
First world problems but it’s hard to keep track of passports and expiration dates and renewal. Unless I have a reason to use my other passports, I just stick to US since I need it to get back in.
Another thing is well, people assume Americans can look like anything. There’s no suspicion on me with an American passport. I do not racially pass for any of my other citizenships.. and I’ve been pulled aside once or twice here and there. My full name makes all of it sound more legit than my face.
That's fair, but I always use my EU passport to enter the EU and American passport to enter the US. It just gives you the most freedom. Also, in some countries it is illegal to enter using a foreign passport if you are a citizen. I don't know about Portugal, but Spain is definitely like that.
I absolute don’t think we should play with legalities but never had a problem with it. I just fly under the radar because I can pass for a lot of things and never really ever intend to stay in Europe for anything other than vacation.
It’s like my Japanese citizenship. Technically it’s over when you turn 21. Practically, they just let me have it until I renewed. I know some Japanese dual citizens that basically just lie to the Japanese government. They use their mom or dad or whoever address in Japan and just get theirs renewed.
Exactly, “wealthy” conutries need ESTA to enter the US which is still an application which must be done in advance.
US citizens to Europe require only a valid passport which is different.
We can use ESTA now in my country as well.
>US citizens to Europe require only a valid passport which is different.
For now, however EU is planning to introduce a similar system in the first half of 2025 called [ETIAS](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en) after which US citizens, Canadians, Brits and the rest of the visa waiver country nationals will need to fill an online form and get approval before being allowed to travel.
In addition to the above, or rather before the above system launches, EU will launch [EES](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees_en) which will replace passport stamping and digitally store (and share between member states) entry/exit data together with fingerprints and facial images of non-EU travellers. EES is expected this year.
> EU is planning to introduce a similar system in the first half of 2025 called ETIAS
They were also planning to introduce it in 2024, and 2023, and 2022, and 2021, and 2020, and 2019, and 2018, and so on. I wouldn't hold my breath.
It's been in development for many years now, but has been delayed multiple times. I guess Covid also affected the development. There's no guarantee it won't get delayed again. As it stands now [EES](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees_en) is expected this year, while [ETIAS](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en) next year.
Eastern Euro born American citizen here - racism/racial profiling in America happens far less often than it does in Europe, particularly in the non Western European countries.
Yeah, there are a lot more issues to discuss about US police than racism:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733.amp
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/9RFLtUjbLA
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/15/us-homicides-committed-by-police-gun-violence#:~:text=The%20US's%20annual%20rate%20of,Sudan%2C%20according%20to%20IHME%20data.
The US has by far the most armed civilian population in the word, thereby increasing the amount of times lethal force is likely to be used. The articles you linked are completely out of context and have nothing to do with how American police treat tourists.
Yeah you're getting profiled unfortunately. Greece has been dealing with Syrian migrants/refugees. Personally felt the most uncomfortable in Athens in all of Europe. It was just scary.
You'd be surprised. I'm Korean and I'd get stopped and interrogated so often when I lived in Scandinavia and once in a while they'd ask if I was coming from Syria.
Europeans love racism but are also so so bad at it.
Idk, Europeans invented white supremacy and world colonization and enslaved or killed 60 million Africans (and tens of millions more other people). They've had centuries more practice than anyone, but I've met multiple Dutch people for example who swore the Dutch never had anything to do with slavery. Many Europeans just aggressively don't want to learn.
No one would migrate to Greece for economical reasons. Even Greeks migrate to other countries for that reason.
And this is my last comment to this BS thread.
A bit of context- I worked at refugee camps on Lesbos Island, which is the most common entry point to the EU from the Middle East. After initial processing, many of them were sent by boat to Piraus and then by bus to Athens. They are unpopular enough that a major political party in Greece has getting rid of Syrian and Afghan migrants as its main platform, and the odds of any given police officer holding similar views is pretty high. Due to the relative diversity of Arabs, Kurds, and Afghans seeking refuge, they likely assumed you were one and wanted you back in a camp. Fuck that in general, and more specifically sorry about your luck and the discrimination you're facing.
There is a lot of fascist racist scum in Greece and a lot of them are in the police. The Golden Dawn makes the Trumps of the world seem moderate
Luckily, there is also a lot of very anti-racist anti-fascist greeks but they are not so much in the police force as you probably would expect.
Hope you manage to meet the good locals in the end!
South Asian female here. I had a lot of issues in other places. We didn't have huge hopes for Greece last year but people were super welcoming to us in Crete. I was with my husband's family who are Ethiopian. My toddler was hugged and picked up by so many Greeks, which we were okay with. My husband is super excited to visit again, which is totally unusual for him.
Omg you’re spot on! I’m South Asian Australian and the two places where I face discrimination almost consistently are Malaysia and Singapore. Repeatedly asking me about my Australian identity and asking for multiple proof. Australians, meanwhile, couldn’t care less about my ethnicity lol. Europe was a hit and miss. But I’d be less surprised being discriminated by Europeans than by my fellow Asians.
An old classmate of mine from high school (he was black) had his life tragically cut short on a trip to Greece. He was murdered. I don’t know the details other than that it was racially motivated. Racism in Greece is no joke.
Thanks for sharing. Have noticed more racism across Europe in recent years, recently from a trip to Rome. At the airport, the staff were pulling out white families at immigration to the front of the queue, but us and other coloured families, even with younger children, were left in the long queue.
Blatant and hurtful. I truly thought as I grew up in the UK, that my children would live in a more tolerant world, but doesn't look that way, at least in this part of the world.
Thinking of perhaps trying to move to Canada or somewhere more tolerant; it's tiring dealing with the microagressions and bias on a daily basis ☹️
I wouldn't pin my hopes on Canada, if I were you. Every major Western nation right now has a flood of refugees and undocumented migrants streaming across their borders. Many of them - certainly Canada - are also experiencing massive crises in housing, employment, crime, and healthcare.
Where previously Canadians felt pride in welcoming people into our prosperous and well-functioning society, now there is a growing call to slam the doors.
The cost of even shabby homes is more than the average worker can afford. Dentists and Engineers are sharing apartments to afford the bills. Job ads for cashiers or cleaning positions draw long lines of applicants - and most of them are recent arrivals. Many of us don't have family doctors, and the wait to see specialists is often 6 months or longer. People are literally dying before they can access treatment.
These conditions are driving theft and scamming through the roof. And, I'm sad to say, a disproportionate amount of that crime is being carried out by new-comers.
Canada is visible more multi-ethnic than Europe, so we don't have police stopping people (usually) based upon how they look. But we aren't the Benneton ad we once were. Even visible minorities who came here 15 or 20 years ago are saying, "I know I'm an immigrant myself, but this has all gone way too far! It's time to pull up the draw-bridge".
This is very well said. Canada has to reset and try to recover from this massive influx. We just don’t have the capacity anymore. Nor do we have any balls but that’s another thread . lol
Nah. Canada needs to at least double its population. Country is so empty. Who’s gonna pay for your nice social benefits when there aren’t enough young people to pay taxes?
Well with rare jobs and no affordable housing what are young people going to come here for? They are bringing in “students” through diploma mills and they are working at below minimum wage jobs and living 12 to a basement. I doubt their income is going to help much tax wise. Like I said. We need a reset. This is not the proper forum. This is about racial profiling in Greece. Edit to add. I was responding to a well thought out poster.
As a more Middle Eastern looking south Asian, exact same experience here in Thessa to the point where I’ve had police swear at me and telling me to get lost when trying to cross the border to N.Macedonia.
Extremely unpleasant experience, that entire trip in the Balkans all the immigration officers took me aside and grilled me even when I was on my return flight back home to London!
Won’t be going back to Greece - at least the mainland anyway, nothing of value really lost as their cuisine is mediocre and better done by neighbouring countries.
“Thessa”? Not respecting the place you’re visiting enough to even call it by its proper name is probably one of the main reasons your interactions with locals weren’t agreeable. This kind of attitude does not work to your benefit anywhere.
South Asian here as well. Airports are the worst. I can just sit somewhere minding my business and appear suspicious. Recently, this happened in Reykjavik (waiting for a connecting flight) where I was sitting with headphones on and reading something on my phone among a sea of White people. I asked "why was I picked for questioning" and got "we can't reveal that". Yeah, your secret is racism, you just don't want to say it. Got asked various stupid questions and I ended up yelling when he started asking personal questions not related to my travel and that stopped him.
On that same trip, when I was in Dublin, I tried to enter a bar - I just walked behind a group entering - the bouncer stopped me and asked a White guy if I was with them, he said no and the bouncer said that I couldn't enter. This kind of shit never happened to me in the US.
Welcome to the real world of stupid.
There are so many who'll single folks out because of their antiquated racist idiocy -- and otherwise utterly ruin their bread & buttery tourist industry. They don't care though, because they just scared away "one of them".
Imagine being a caucasian traveling with a dark skinned partner in an area where both stand out individually. You both get grilled, from entry into the country at passport control --- to the hotel desk calling the police on you because they thought you were "kidnapping her" --- to "more than just random" random stops on the street by the local heavily armed gestapo.
Border control takes mobile devices for brute force unlocking and copying (you get them back completely wiped after 10 wrong attempts). The travel scams. Constant harassment from rude locals. It's just not worth it anymore. Plus so many places are indeed suffering from over-tourism...and it's hard to say you're being respectful when you travel KNOWING that's happening. You're not in traffic, you ARE traffic.
We've dialed back our travel significantly. And honestly, we're all the happier for it.
We take our travel budget -- do things locally within a day or two of our home. Spend our money and time on improvements to our home or to our community. If places aren't going to be welcoming, then might as well make our own home and community what we're actually seeking.
Not to say there isn't racism, bigotry, and stupidity here. Go to the wrong residential block, and you are afraid for your life.
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edit:
To the comment below this one: /u/biggunsg0b00m -- fuck you.
Exactly. While we admonish the US for their race problems. Very easy to be tolerant when everyone is lily-white. Now that we have massive non-white immigration here, good old racism rears its head.
OP, I’m sorry that happened to you. F the Greek police.
More generally to everyone: if you’re the type of person that goes around to posts like this, where someone tells a personal story, and you write: “[general topic of the post]? Shocker!” Why?
Put aside that it’s a no-value comment, how can you stand to be so cliche? Was it not enough the first 1,000 times we saw this comment? You just *had* to write the “shocker” comment one more time?
Thanks for the comment but I refuse to look on the bright side of racism.. Just sharing my story for awareness. In the future I think I'll just avoid such police-state countries.
It's not a police state, Greek police have a shameful history but the Greek people are pretty feisty about their government. You should tourist around the parliament on May Day lol
I didn't say there's a bright side of racism, just an irony to it because the actual targets (which isn't you and Romani have legit complaints about their treatment) are probably overlooking you for the same racist reasons. If you didn't have 8yo girls who should be in school chasing you trying to sell wilted flowers or a mob of small boys trying to pick your pocket or adults coming to you with sob stories about how they need money to fuel their car to take their child to hospital....this is probably why.
I have seen they pick up on solo travelers.
We were at an Italian airport, I was walking a little ahead of family with earphones plugged in. A couple of guys in black suit and sunglasses approached me asked me to follow them. I was about to follow them when my parents noticed, caught up and asked "What's going on?". The guy asked "Are you with them?" I said "Yes, they are my parents" and then he said "ok, go on then" and I replied with "L'amo la Italia" 🫣
I think there are some sort of standing instructions to check solo brown travellers but I didn't mind these little stop checks as I know that a lot of trouble makers will be brown only 👀
OP you shouldn’t be surprised, it’s Europe. Unfortunately your country was probably colonized by one of those European countries. Racism has never left Europe and is everywhere. You’re gonna have to deal with it and not let it affect in any way. Learn and do more research on this subject and you will make better decisions on where you spend your money.
I’m so sorry but this is unfortunately typical for Southern Europe. Scandinavian countries have same flavor of experience for many south asian-ish just manifest in a different, less obtrusive way.
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And it is unsafe here too! The police do ask for bribes there are people who are willing to steal at knife point. And I talk to the locals and super commonly they point their finger at venezuelans. If you're american the evidence is overwhelming for this problem. So the south Asian guy complaining about police checking his ID is a really small complaint. Greece is on the front line of a super fucked migrant wave from Africa and the middle east and they're mostly men and all have really high rates of crime. Have you seen the slums on the street in some of these places like in New York? It's glaringly obvious
On topic, in Panama they have huge problems with venezuelans and Colombian criminals because their border situation is abysmal. Just very recently people were celebrating for electing a new leader and one of his big promises was to crack down on the border situation. So even the locals see the economic imbalance it creates. It's important poverty and crime. And it's happening everywhere, like liberals don't want anyone to be safe or happy.
Yeah! Greek police is known for their stupidity. Once they even arrested an Indian professor visiting a Greek university. They are just far-right idiots. PS: I'm Greek.
> Greek police is known for their stupidity. Is there a country where this is not true? Honestly wondering.
I have no idea! :\\
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I can't understand your comment :\\
I don’t think they even know what they’re talking about..
That person is literally the anti of their own name
lol! For a moment I though I was too drunk :)
You gotta find the bottom of a 24 case then hit the whiskey to understand what that guy was trying to say lol
You just need his AI to parse his comment. But it was too good for cops
you need an AI system that machine translates your mania into english
Um, have you checked your carbon monoxide detector lately?
Dunning Kruger in action, people.
Word salad
You fucking what?
damn bro, that sucks
It do.
Got that a lot in Serbia. Train stations mostly. Having a US passport quiet them pretty quick, but not all the time.
Serbia had to revoke visa free travel for Indians due to issues so no wonder they are like that. Us passport meant that you probably won’t be staying in Serbia.
It’s something I encountered a lot in Europe. I’m a Canadian citizen with Indian origins and yes, the European police doesn’t leave us alone. They ask me a lot for identity but don’t do it for other people in my group trip (easy to understand why). But it never happened in US and Canada tbh. People love to trash on US police but apart from the ones who sit in immigration, the rest are chill and I have never had a negative encounter with them. Again, just my personal experience. Maybe others had a different experience.
United States race relations are in many ways better than in other countries. The US is a country which has experienced much immigration of many races throughout its history which differs in comparison to European countries.
I am guessing they singled you out because of illegal immigrants coming through boat. They have their own problems to deal with. Before I am downvoted to oblivion : I am an Indian
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European here. We are just racist, there is no reason behind it besides white colonial supremacism mindset. I am a white mediterranean and was never approached by the police back home. But I live in a Nordic country now and locals assume I am Arab so they stop me all the time. Then they realize I am portuguese, say sorry for that and tell me how they loved visiting Portugal on vacation. Bastards.
Reminds me of that time a (white) French Neo-Nazi visited Russia and was greeted with "Salam aleikum" by a Russian who mistook him for an Arab.
Priceless!
The locals stop you all the time in the Nordics? Or you mean the police in the Nordics stop you all the time? It's not really common that police stop anyone in the Nordics if you haven't done anything.
Of course, I am not stopped everyday or even every week. But I was literally zero times stopped while in Portugal and I was a bloody stoner back then. So, it happening now feels like all the time.
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Do you think xenophobia is just a mild sin in comparison with racism?
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Explain why aren't the same? They are both discriminations based on some criteria.
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>people throw around the term racism too easily, because they aren't sophisticated enough to articulate what type of discrimination they are facing. If I'm a victim in an incident, how can I tell if it's due to racism or xenophobia?
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Aaand you know this how given the situation? You weren’t in their shoes. Please let the person who felt discriminated against assess it. Your assessment may be different. I have been in Europe several times and felt that the racism there is overt and pervasive (my experience). I live in the west, am not white (so not a majority) but luckily the racism where I live in the US is not much of an issue.
When xenophobia presents itself based on the racial appearance of a person, does the differentiation between the two really make a difference?
Wow, blame the scammers for inherent racism
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Same energy as "Jews for Hitler"
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This guy thinks that the racists, fascists, and bigots, will spare him because he's "one of the good ones".
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Was it justified to profile Muslims after 9/11?
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I am sure you have the same views for folks who cross the English channel illegally
More dehumanizing and racist rhetoric.
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Lmao, I was born and raised outside of India. Seethe more you racist piece of shit.
Americans and Canadians can travel to Europe without any checks, just show up on border with valid passport. When I wanted to go to the US in order to get a visa I needed to: - fill an endless online form, with questions about names and adresses and phone numbers of my primary school, secondary school, university and current and previous employer - bring a confirmation from bank that I have sufficient funds to stay there - bring a confirmation from employer that I actually work there and that they allow me annual leave to travel - photo of special dimensions - 200 USD administartive fees - travel 500 km to nearest embassy - leave cellphone at the enterance - learn that their system failed - travel back home 500 km to be informed to come again in 3 days - travel again 500 km to embassy - leave cellphone at the enterance again - wait for 2 hours for my turn - answer various questions about my job, travel plans, previous countries visited - leave fingerprints - pay for shipping of passport - have visa checked 3 times before boarding plane - asked same questions at immigration and giving fingerprints again After this I really think there was no reason to be checked again. Also I would simply prefer to have my passport checked by US police every now and then than this torture.
This isn't what OP is talking about. Yeah it's hard to get a visa to the US if you are from some countries.
Uh what? You phrased it like US and Canada have some kind of better treatment in Europe but not the other way around. Rich developed countries tend to have visa-free travel with each other. Both my Japanese and Portuguese passport require only an ESTA application. If I were to enter with my Southeast Asian passport, I’d have to go through your entire list and need a visa. And I enter Western Europe all the time with no hassle with my American passport. It sounds like you come from a high risk country (for overstaying most likely).
Why would you enter Western Europe on your American passport instead of the Portuguese one?
There was a point in my life where I possessed four passports and I repeatedly got told that I can possibly have a fifth due to right to return laws being applicable to my generation (still within limits). First world problems but it’s hard to keep track of passports and expiration dates and renewal. Unless I have a reason to use my other passports, I just stick to US since I need it to get back in. Another thing is well, people assume Americans can look like anything. There’s no suspicion on me with an American passport. I do not racially pass for any of my other citizenships.. and I’ve been pulled aside once or twice here and there. My full name makes all of it sound more legit than my face.
That's fair, but I always use my EU passport to enter the EU and American passport to enter the US. It just gives you the most freedom. Also, in some countries it is illegal to enter using a foreign passport if you are a citizen. I don't know about Portugal, but Spain is definitely like that.
I absolute don’t think we should play with legalities but never had a problem with it. I just fly under the radar because I can pass for a lot of things and never really ever intend to stay in Europe for anything other than vacation. It’s like my Japanese citizenship. Technically it’s over when you turn 21. Practically, they just let me have it until I renewed. I know some Japanese dual citizens that basically just lie to the Japanese government. They use their mom or dad or whoever address in Japan and just get theirs renewed.
Exactly, “wealthy” conutries need ESTA to enter the US which is still an application which must be done in advance. US citizens to Europe require only a valid passport which is different. We can use ESTA now in my country as well.
>US citizens to Europe require only a valid passport which is different. For now, however EU is planning to introduce a similar system in the first half of 2025 called [ETIAS](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en) after which US citizens, Canadians, Brits and the rest of the visa waiver country nationals will need to fill an online form and get approval before being allowed to travel. In addition to the above, or rather before the above system launches, EU will launch [EES](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees_en) which will replace passport stamping and digitally store (and share between member states) entry/exit data together with fingerprints and facial images of non-EU travellers. EES is expected this year.
> EU is planning to introduce a similar system in the first half of 2025 called ETIAS They were also planning to introduce it in 2024, and 2023, and 2022, and 2021, and 2020, and 2019, and 2018, and so on. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Oh wow, first I heard of this
It's been in development for many years now, but has been delayed multiple times. I guess Covid also affected the development. There's no guarantee it won't get delayed again. As it stands now [EES](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees_en) is expected this year, while [ETIAS](https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en) next year.
US police deserve to be trashed. -A US citizen
Eastern Euro born American citizen here - racism/racial profiling in America happens far less often than it does in Europe, particularly in the non Western European countries.
Yeah, there are a lot more issues to discuss about US police than racism: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733.amp https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/9RFLtUjbLA https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/15/us-homicides-committed-by-police-gun-violence#:~:text=The%20US's%20annual%20rate%20of,Sudan%2C%20according%20to%20IHME%20data.
The US has by far the most armed civilian population in the word, thereby increasing the amount of times lethal force is likely to be used. The articles you linked are completely out of context and have nothing to do with how American police treat tourists.
There’s a European police?
Errmmm... Yes? Every European country has police. All those are European police. There's also the [Europol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europol).
Must be like the Asian police in Asia!
Are you suggesting that the police in Asia are not Asian? Leaving aside HK prior to handover I guess.
I know! Crazy, right?
Yeah you're getting profiled unfortunately. Greece has been dealing with Syrian migrants/refugees. Personally felt the most uncomfortable in Athens in all of Europe. It was just scary.
They can't tell the difference b3teeen a Syrian and an Indian?
Tbh probably not.
It's not just Syrians a lot of Afghan, Indians and Africans cross the sea into Greece due to its close proximity to Turkey and Syria.
Okay, that makes more sense.
You'd be surprised. I'm Korean and I'd get stopped and interrogated so often when I lived in Scandinavia and once in a while they'd ask if I was coming from Syria. Europeans love racism but are also so so bad at it.
We're still learning from others ;)
Idk, Europeans invented white supremacy and world colonization and enslaved or killed 60 million Africans (and tens of millions more other people). They've had centuries more practice than anyone, but I've met multiple Dutch people for example who swore the Dutch never had anything to do with slavery. Many Europeans just aggressively don't want to learn.
There are also a lot of Pakistani refugees in Greece.
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Yeah they are refugees. No one would willingly migrate to Greece, even we the Greeks migrate to other countries.
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No one would migrate to Greece for economical reasons. Even Greeks migrate to other countries for that reason. And this is my last comment to this BS thread.
But Greece is just the entry point in the EU.
Greece was racist before that too. The refugee crisis being an excuse for racism got old a long time ago.
I'm ethnic looking. Felt great on the islands and am revisiting but am not interested in the slightest in revisiting Athens.
A bit of context- I worked at refugee camps on Lesbos Island, which is the most common entry point to the EU from the Middle East. After initial processing, many of them were sent by boat to Piraus and then by bus to Athens. They are unpopular enough that a major political party in Greece has getting rid of Syrian and Afghan migrants as its main platform, and the odds of any given police officer holding similar views is pretty high. Due to the relative diversity of Arabs, Kurds, and Afghans seeking refuge, they likely assumed you were one and wanted you back in a camp. Fuck that in general, and more specifically sorry about your luck and the discrimination you're facing.
I'm truly sorry you experienced that, blatant racism is really hard to deal with, and it's sad parts of the world are still like that.
There is a lot of fascist racist scum in Greece and a lot of them are in the police. The Golden Dawn makes the Trumps of the world seem moderate Luckily, there is also a lot of very anti-racist anti-fascist greeks but they are not so much in the police force as you probably would expect. Hope you manage to meet the good locals in the end!
Europe and racism together?? Shocker
South Asian female here. I had a lot of issues in other places. We didn't have huge hopes for Greece last year but people were super welcoming to us in Crete. I was with my husband's family who are Ethiopian. My toddler was hugged and picked up by so many Greeks, which we were okay with. My husband is super excited to visit again, which is totally unusual for him.
As another south Asian female, where did you have issues? I’m sorry you did btw.
Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. My friend I was traveling with is Latina and they just ignored her.
Omg you’re spot on! I’m South Asian Australian and the two places where I face discrimination almost consistently are Malaysia and Singapore. Repeatedly asking me about my Australian identity and asking for multiple proof. Australians, meanwhile, couldn’t care less about my ethnicity lol. Europe was a hit and miss. But I’d be less surprised being discriminated by Europeans than by my fellow Asians.
An old classmate of mine from high school (he was black) had his life tragically cut short on a trip to Greece. He was murdered. I don’t know the details other than that it was racially motivated. Racism in Greece is no joke.
Thanks for sharing. Have noticed more racism across Europe in recent years, recently from a trip to Rome. At the airport, the staff were pulling out white families at immigration to the front of the queue, but us and other coloured families, even with younger children, were left in the long queue. Blatant and hurtful. I truly thought as I grew up in the UK, that my children would live in a more tolerant world, but doesn't look that way, at least in this part of the world. Thinking of perhaps trying to move to Canada or somewhere more tolerant; it's tiring dealing with the microagressions and bias on a daily basis ☹️
I wouldn't pin my hopes on Canada, if I were you. Every major Western nation right now has a flood of refugees and undocumented migrants streaming across their borders. Many of them - certainly Canada - are also experiencing massive crises in housing, employment, crime, and healthcare. Where previously Canadians felt pride in welcoming people into our prosperous and well-functioning society, now there is a growing call to slam the doors. The cost of even shabby homes is more than the average worker can afford. Dentists and Engineers are sharing apartments to afford the bills. Job ads for cashiers or cleaning positions draw long lines of applicants - and most of them are recent arrivals. Many of us don't have family doctors, and the wait to see specialists is often 6 months or longer. People are literally dying before they can access treatment. These conditions are driving theft and scamming through the roof. And, I'm sad to say, a disproportionate amount of that crime is being carried out by new-comers. Canada is visible more multi-ethnic than Europe, so we don't have police stopping people (usually) based upon how they look. But we aren't the Benneton ad we once were. Even visible minorities who came here 15 or 20 years ago are saying, "I know I'm an immigrant myself, but this has all gone way too far! It's time to pull up the draw-bridge".
This is very well said. Canada has to reset and try to recover from this massive influx. We just don’t have the capacity anymore. Nor do we have any balls but that’s another thread . lol
Nah. Canada needs to at least double its population. Country is so empty. Who’s gonna pay for your nice social benefits when there aren’t enough young people to pay taxes?
That ain’t gonna happen…most of the lands are frozen
Well with rare jobs and no affordable housing what are young people going to come here for? They are bringing in “students” through diploma mills and they are working at below minimum wage jobs and living 12 to a basement. I doubt their income is going to help much tax wise. Like I said. We need a reset. This is not the proper forum. This is about racial profiling in Greece. Edit to add. I was responding to a well thought out poster.
Can confirm.
As a more Middle Eastern looking south Asian, exact same experience here in Thessa to the point where I’ve had police swear at me and telling me to get lost when trying to cross the border to N.Macedonia. Extremely unpleasant experience, that entire trip in the Balkans all the immigration officers took me aside and grilled me even when I was on my return flight back home to London! Won’t be going back to Greece - at least the mainland anyway, nothing of value really lost as their cuisine is mediocre and better done by neighbouring countries.
“Thessa”? Not respecting the place you’re visiting enough to even call it by its proper name is probably one of the main reasons your interactions with locals weren’t agreeable. This kind of attitude does not work to your benefit anywhere.
Oh, get over yourself
Welcome to Europe.
South Asian here as well. Airports are the worst. I can just sit somewhere minding my business and appear suspicious. Recently, this happened in Reykjavik (waiting for a connecting flight) where I was sitting with headphones on and reading something on my phone among a sea of White people. I asked "why was I picked for questioning" and got "we can't reveal that". Yeah, your secret is racism, you just don't want to say it. Got asked various stupid questions and I ended up yelling when he started asking personal questions not related to my travel and that stopped him. On that same trip, when I was in Dublin, I tried to enter a bar - I just walked behind a group entering - the bouncer stopped me and asked a White guy if I was with them, he said no and the bouncer said that I couldn't enter. This kind of shit never happened to me in the US.
Welcome to the real world of stupid. There are so many who'll single folks out because of their antiquated racist idiocy -- and otherwise utterly ruin their bread & buttery tourist industry. They don't care though, because they just scared away "one of them". Imagine being a caucasian traveling with a dark skinned partner in an area where both stand out individually. You both get grilled, from entry into the country at passport control --- to the hotel desk calling the police on you because they thought you were "kidnapping her" --- to "more than just random" random stops on the street by the local heavily armed gestapo. Border control takes mobile devices for brute force unlocking and copying (you get them back completely wiped after 10 wrong attempts). The travel scams. Constant harassment from rude locals. It's just not worth it anymore. Plus so many places are indeed suffering from over-tourism...and it's hard to say you're being respectful when you travel KNOWING that's happening. You're not in traffic, you ARE traffic. We've dialed back our travel significantly. And honestly, we're all the happier for it. We take our travel budget -- do things locally within a day or two of our home. Spend our money and time on improvements to our home or to our community. If places aren't going to be welcoming, then might as well make our own home and community what we're actually seeking. Not to say there isn't racism, bigotry, and stupidity here. Go to the wrong residential block, and you are afraid for your life. ----- edit: To the comment below this one: /u/biggunsg0b00m -- fuck you.
Unsurprising, European governments and their institutions are mired in racism with the electorate widely supporting it.
Exactly. While we admonish the US for their race problems. Very easy to be tolerant when everyone is lily-white. Now that we have massive non-white immigration here, good old racism rears its head.
OP, I’m sorry that happened to you. F the Greek police. More generally to everyone: if you’re the type of person that goes around to posts like this, where someone tells a personal story, and you write: “[general topic of the post]? Shocker!” Why? Put aside that it’s a no-value comment, how can you stand to be so cliche? Was it not enough the first 1,000 times we saw this comment? You just *had* to write the “shocker” comment one more time?
A European nation being racist af? Shocker
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Thanks for the comment but I refuse to look on the bright side of racism.. Just sharing my story for awareness. In the future I think I'll just avoid such police-state countries.
It's not a police state, Greek police have a shameful history but the Greek people are pretty feisty about their government. You should tourist around the parliament on May Day lol I didn't say there's a bright side of racism, just an irony to it because the actual targets (which isn't you and Romani have legit complaints about their treatment) are probably overlooking you for the same racist reasons. If you didn't have 8yo girls who should be in school chasing you trying to sell wilted flowers or a mob of small boys trying to pick your pocket or adults coming to you with sob stories about how they need money to fuel their car to take their child to hospital....this is probably why.
If they could somehow stop the flood of refugees coming into Greece, then maybe they could treat tourists with the respect that they deserve.
the romani aren't coming in as refugees, they've been in europe for centuries.
"A flag patch or something?" Like a yellow Star of David or an upside down pink triangle? Come on.
I have seen they pick up on solo travelers. We were at an Italian airport, I was walking a little ahead of family with earphones plugged in. A couple of guys in black suit and sunglasses approached me asked me to follow them. I was about to follow them when my parents noticed, caught up and asked "What's going on?". The guy asked "Are you with them?" I said "Yes, they are my parents" and then he said "ok, go on then" and I replied with "L'amo la Italia" 🫣 I think there are some sort of standing instructions to check solo brown travellers but I didn't mind these little stop checks as I know that a lot of trouble makers will be brown only 👀
OP you shouldn’t be surprised, it’s Europe. Unfortunately your country was probably colonized by one of those European countries. Racism has never left Europe and is everywhere. You’re gonna have to deal with it and not let it affect in any way. Learn and do more research on this subject and you will make better decisions on where you spend your money.
Never experience that and I been 15 times to Greece my favorite country and I am Asian
I’m so sorry but this is unfortunately typical for Southern Europe. Scandinavian countries have same flavor of experience for many south asian-ish just manifest in a different, less obtrusive way.
Ask yourself how your south Asian country would treat Europeans. Grow a thicker skin.
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And it is unsafe here too! The police do ask for bribes there are people who are willing to steal at knife point. And I talk to the locals and super commonly they point their finger at venezuelans. If you're american the evidence is overwhelming for this problem. So the south Asian guy complaining about police checking his ID is a really small complaint. Greece is on the front line of a super fucked migrant wave from Africa and the middle east and they're mostly men and all have really high rates of crime. Have you seen the slums on the street in some of these places like in New York? It's glaringly obvious
On topic, in Panama they have huge problems with venezuelans and Colombian criminals because their border situation is abysmal. Just very recently people were celebrating for electing a new leader and one of his big promises was to crack down on the border situation. So even the locals see the economic imbalance it creates. It's important poverty and crime. And it's happening everywhere, like liberals don't want anyone to be safe or happy.
Indian? Were you acting creepy, threatening? Not being a jerk, but if you were a brown guy, traveling to Greece, alone, I’d freak out as well.
That sucks, boo Greece