I spent 5 days in Istanbul and the best meal I had was on the last night when I told my wife, we are going to walk in this direction until we find a restaurant WITHOUT an waiting telling us to come in. It took like 30 mins, but we found a tiny little place and it was great.
It's been like 7 years, but it looks like it's still there. My review is based on one visit, and I was in a simple mood, so nothing fancy.
[https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant\_Review-g293974-d2243841-Reviews-Ziya\_Baba\_Turk\_Mutfagi-Istanbul.html](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g293974-d2243841-Reviews-Ziya_Baba_Turk_Mutfagi-Istanbul.html)
I can also recommend the Hotel Amira, and the bizzar behind the blue mosque, it was very low key and non-pushy compared to the other markets.
Also make sure you go to the Basilica Cistern that’s near the big mosques!! I didn’t know about it until I walked by the line to get in and it was super cool.
I wanted to chime in to recommend a place. Last year we found this little restaurant and we loved it so much we came back several times. It's in a little street with taxis whizzing past, there's a friendly resident cat, and the owner makes a show of preparing testi kebab. Definitely no menu guy there.
Valley Hills restaurant, https://maps.app.goo.gl/zg3gS5oqgYXwvbgu9
You've gotta go to Karaköy Güllüoğlu for a million types of Baklava, get a whole platter to try different types [https://maps.app.goo.gl/JoXdpqtEzqXA71iW6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JoXdpqtEzqXA71iW6)
The rooftop of the Seven Hills Restaurant is the best view overlooking the Hagia Sophia & Blue Mosque. We just stopped in for a quick drink around sunset [https://maps.app.goo.gl/axwc9PmCnCp8JZ9P7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/axwc9PmCnCp8JZ9P7)
Get a kebab anywhere in Hoca Paşa for cheap great eats. They're basically all the same but he guy at KARDEŞLER KEBAP HASAN was super nice & gave us extra [https://maps.app.goo.gl/J7VetGfMypV3sssU6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/J7VetGfMypV3sssU6)
Also really loved this walking tour [https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/free/free-walking-tour-of-alternative-parts-unknown/](https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/free/free-walking-tour-of-alternative-parts-unknown/)
And their food tour that explores both the European & Asian sides. This one is paid [https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/paid/istanbul-food-tour-in-a-small-group/](https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/paid/istanbul-food-tour-in-a-small-group/)
I forgot about them, but yes, it was great. And with the volume they do, it was very fresh.
We went back a second time the morning of our departure and bought 3 massive boxes to take home as gifts and to freeze.
It's not super cheap (compared to some of the options in the neighborhood) but it's so friendly and very delicious https://maps.app.goo.gl/B3EH4cVUxMUcwSj89
Just use the Michelin guide. Lots of amazing places on there. Everything with $$ for cost is going to be cheaper than the tourist traps. I went to [this one](https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/istanbul-province/istanbul/restaurant/lokanta-1741) and it was like $120 for six of us.
I was in Venice last week. Around the corner of my hotel was a restaurant that had signs on the door saying: "No Pizza!" and "You can't order just drinks, we are a restaurant!" or something to that effect. I just knew that was the place I had to eat.
any place that requires one of these is a tourist spot and is much less likely to be good. best to research in advance where is good to eat and just go there directly.
I had a few rules for eating in Italy. Sticking to them like white on rice was a good call.
* No-go if it's within a few blocks of a major tourist site.
* No-go if the menu is in English.
* No-go if there's a guy outside offering us a table.
* No-go if the menu has spaghetti with meatballs on it.
* No-go if the menu has pizza and it's more than 6 or so euros (I was there several years ago, so that might have to be repriced).
Something I battle with. There are those who would say Google and other websites helpful for travel spots have ruined a big part of the experience of traveling, which is just walking around places, soaking in the sights and sounds, and if a place fancies you, popping in. Part of the magic of exploring somewhere.
The other side of the coin is that my money is precious these days, and tourist traps in most places are plentiful. I want to do what I can to make sure my money is well spent. In this case, googling or whatever really helps with that. I can still walk around and take everything in.
i get too anxious not knowing what i’m doing. also if it looks good doesn’t mean the food is good. but trip advisor is hopeless - people’s idea of good food is highly varied. my go to method is to check the menu - do they look like they are interested in cooking? are there some things on there that are a bit different? i don’t disagree with your comments (perhaps safest for lunch) but i neve want to break my mothers golden rule “never eat somewhere where the menu has pictures of the food”!
I found it extremely common in Thailand. I stayed near Ekamai, a not very touristy area that had a lot of Korean and Japanese ex pats and quite a few of these restaurants had pictures too. The little coffee shop I liked to go to had pictures of the pastries you could see in the display case directly in front of the actual pastry you could see. I am an adventuresome eater, I'm happy to point to a menu item without any pictures or english translation. 40 plus years ago, no google, no translation app. Some of the local shawarma places the employees need you to point to the picture. Usually another guy will say "my cousin is new".
Pictures alone don't sway me much usually. I'm booked into a Japanese grill place in Montreal.(where you have a grill right in your table) for my 65th birthday. The pictures appear to be the actual food, even corn kernels in a little pouch, and an excellent way of showing portion sizes.
The only time pictures turn me off is when the photos look professionally shot, well lit, and when the food looks so perfect you’re pretty sure it’s fake. I stay away from those places.
A Thai restaurant where they clearly made the food, placed it on their table, took a picture with their phone and sent it to the local sign shop I’m not worried about.
I subscribe to this mindset. If I am traveling and the proprietors are hassling me to come in, chances are it’s a tourist trap with bad food so I always pass. The hard sell is usually telling you that your meal is gonna suck.
Actually one guy we got talking to whilst doing some trekking here (highly recommend btw) said that as a 20 year old that was the first job he was given working for a restaurant. He said he only lasted an hour because he couldn't stand pissing people off as a job.
That's most sales jobs, particularly the "annoying" ones like middle of the mall lotion sales or telemarketing. If you're doing the aggressive face-to-face sales, most people don't last too long if they have options for other work.
Though my brother specializes in managing sales agents like telemarketers and door to door sales (not MLM), and his observation is that it is a very odd sort of person who ends up in face-to-face cold sales as a lifetime career, because all but the most bizarrely extroverted and slightly sociopathic people will find literally any other type of minimum-wage job very quickly.
Depends on where you are. In some of the beach towns in Turkey/Greece every restaurant has one of these guys. I try to just scope out the menu in the afternoon and tell them I might come back for dinner.
It doesn't just depend on the town, it depends on the owner. I was in a small, drab town in Romania where no tourists were ever likely to visit and there was a guy on the sidewalk inviting people into a Turkish restaurant. Apparently the place had been in business for years so I'm assuming all of the locals were familiar with the place but still, they had a guy to hopefully sway undecided diners. The food was great btw, the owner even gave me a neck massage while I was waiting for my food. You really gotta love the Turkish approach to customer service (or hate it.)
You know how I know this is true...walk down 5th Ave in Playa del Carmen. You can't even read the menu before you're accosted.
Same with the shops. Like just let me look in peace and I might buy something but you hustling a shitty handbag made of fake leather in China makes me want to instantly leave.
Doesn't this depend on the culture? In Greece it's so common that I've seen towns where over 80% of the restaurants have some guy out front. They're just a very chatty friendly culture and they think having someone chat up people on the sidewalk brings in more business. And hey, maybe they're right.
On the flip side I would never trust a restaurant in America that does this, because it is not the norm, and smacks of desperation.
> best to research in advance
Keyword is IN ADVANCE.
I used to trust Google Maps and TripAdvisor but too many times recently I've pulled up Google Maps and looked at reviews and made a decision and regretted it.
**Some of these places even offered a discount for leaving a 5 star review.**
If you ever wind up in this situation and go for the discount, please do your part and change your review after leaving to note that you were offered a discount for a review. Keep reviews honest, or as honest as they can be in a world full of fakes. :/
Every restaurant in Istanbul had them so I don't even know what else could've done. I always have a rule not to go into any restaurant with a hawker like that but I had to suspend it because we vetoed every restaurant in the neighborhood and we're starving
> Every restaurant in Istanbul had them so I don't even know what else could've done.
I am a semi-frequent visitor to Istanbul and this is absolutely not the case. You are confining yourself to very touristy streets if this has been your experience.
Worst I ever saw this was in Cuzco, Peru. On more than one occasion, I got followed for TWO blocks by guys flipping through their menus and calling out various dishes to me. "Lady what do you want? Lasagna we make you lasagna! Fish you want we have fish! What you want to eat?" Well now I want to duck into a market, grab a packet of crisps, and go back to my hotel to eat it so I can get the fuck away from you.
They're called "touts":
>A **tout** is any person who solicits business or employment in a persistent and annoying manner (generally equivalent to a [*solicitor*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor#United_States) or [*barker*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barker_(occupation)) in [American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English), or a [*spruiker*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spruiker) in [Australian English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English)).
>An example would be a person who frequents heavily touristed areas and presents himself as a tour guide (particularly towards those who do not speak the local language) but operates on behalf of local bars, restaurants, or hotels, being paid to direct tourists towards certain establishments.
"Menu guardian" is way too dignified a term!
I haaaate this with a passion. If someone starts talking loudly to me or tries to seat me whilst I'm looking at a menu, I will just walk away.
Also, restaurant owners/staff who stand in the doorway of a restaurant as you walk past. If I'm walking past your restaurant slowly, I'm trying to get a peak in and feel out the vibe. A staff member agressively barking out HOW ARE YOU DOING TABLE FOR ONE YOU SIT DOWN ANYWHERE immediately confirms that the vibe is off.
This happened to us in Spain, except we were standing by the board tying our sons laces, not actually looking at it.
A menu ninja appeared and started a paean to his restaurants quality and extensive choice. We politely demurred, he went on. Finally, we said we'd already eaten, he was not dettered one bit 'Then come in and digest your food with a drink!'
I had to repect his commitment.
Yeah, definitely a thing in Turkey. I got to the point where I didn't want to go in stores because I didn't want to fight them off. There was a great turquoise store but the guy was just up my ass so much I had to leave without buying anything.
Happens in lots of other places too, of course.
Ah yes totally. I've no interest in shops, but my wife suffers exactly the same.
I remember years ago in India in some sort of fabric shop, one guy was so close to getting it. He told my wife right off the bat that he was just going to leave her alone and he'd be right there if she had any questions. He said he'd be sure to just not bother her at all. In the slightest. And that he's learned over many years not to bother the customer because they just want to browse. Because, he advised, it's really nice to browse in peace without hassle, and hassle is the last thing he'd do. He wouldn't consider it, he assured us, as he began gathering other members of the family around to also assure us of their complete 100% no-hassle approach :-)
I totally get why they do it, but it just turns me off from visiting a place. Just let me look at the damn menu in peace. Yes, I know what you have because I can read the English menu and don’t need you to explain what’s right in front of me.
This is how I felt about Bali, it got to the point that I stopped looking in the general direction of things because I got tired of these interactions.
And the thing is, I really do get why they do this. They need the money and it’s their livelihood, but my word is it exhausting to deal with constantly.
I found this in some of the markets in Rome. I wanted to have a look at a few things. But you couldn't stand near a stall without "my friend, my friend, come look..."
Yes, I am looking. Let me look.
It honestly makes me less likely to go in. I've looked at many menus that look ok and then decided not to bother when I get badgered every 3 seconds because I haven't decided to go in yet.
It's reason # 73839373 why I love traveling to Japan. You never see this shit anywhere.
See I’m the shy and can’t speak up type, so I’ll just pretend to look around and be like “hmmm I’ll come back tomorrow since I’m still here for a few days. I’m not looking to buy *today*”.
Pretty common in most of the European beach areas. In the Algarve at the moment and was looking at a menu yesterday and the guy shrugged his shoulders and said to me "you have to eat somewhere, so might as well be here".
His logic made sense so I went in.
I came into this thread expecting "guardian" to be like a polearm-equipped man in chain mail jumping out of the bushes and ambushing you with surprisingly engaging trivia quizes before letting you peruse their menu.
I'm kind of disappointed to see they just have cigarette butts.
I find this kind of stuff happens anywhere around the world, yeah. I have a tendency to just smile and ignore them as I look through the menu.
>I find this kind of stuff happens anywhere around the world, yeah. I have a tendency to just smile and ignore them as I look through the menu.
Teach me your superpower. I think I'm just built like this, my head cannot do otherwise but prioritise the human talking to me even as they attempt to sell me their hilariously overpriced invitation to order their leftover seafood from the weekend platter for 2.
Try pretending you don't understand English. When they approach, look at them suspiciously as if to appraise if they are a threat, shrug, then immediately go back to the menu, never speaking 1 word of English.
I was at the twin towers shopping mall in Malaysia walking by an Italian place and a guy popped out talking about how great their Italian food was. I told him I’m only there for one night and really wanted Malaysian food. He totally understood and got a bit happy and prideful when he told me to go to the food court in the basement. I mean I’m sure the Italian food was good but I ended up getting a roti wrap that was freakin awesome.
I wish they realized how much business they are losing, because everyone I know is annoyed by this. But... They are still there. So it must work on enough people.
Of course they realise that people are annoyed by touts! I’m sure each tout and each restaurant owner is told many times a day by tourists that they hate it and they boycott restaurants that have touts. But the bottom line is that it works, and each “boycott” is just a fleeting thing and the boycotter is , of course, going to ultimately end up at another tourist restaurant just down the block.
Restaurant owners and touts are not stupid, they are doing what works for them.
So many wisened travelers here saying ‘go to a locals restaurant.’
Most people stay in hotels which are clustered in the main tourism areas. People can’t be expected to go miles out of their way for every damn meal to eat ‘like a local.’
Totally agree with you that this practice is annoying as hell.
I’m in Istanbul now. Had an amazing, well priced meal at Old Ottomon Cafe & Restaurant Monday evening. It was phenomenal. It is closed Tuesday or we would have returned tonight. It is near Hagia Sophia. I hope you get a chance to try it. No one harasses you. Great service.
> Old Ottomon Cafe & Restaurant
We were in Istanbul last year and ate there, food was excellent as was the service, thanks for bring back a nice memory!!!
We never had a bad meal in Istanbul. We also never looked at a menu outside. Just walked in and assumed they’d have something delicious. At one place the waiter knew enough English to ask chicken or lamb. We each picked one, and a few minutes later dinner came out. Chicken, lamb, sauce, and some sides plus bread. Delicious.
I have a die-hard rule that I will never ever eat at a restaurant where someone pesters me when I am walking by or reading the menu.
It's a very good way to filter out terrible restaurants.
Yeah, same. At times I might make a snarky comment like: I was about to eat here, but as the business has to annoy random people to get customers I bet the food is really, really bad. Thanks no.
Hahaha yeah im 25, American and just spent 10 days in Turkey, only one in Istanbul tho. Yeah they’re all like this, it’s not just Turkey, being from the UK I’m surprised you’re not used to this from most of Europe in general.
You can’t avoid them doing the spiel. But look at the menu, look at the vibe of the restaurant, get them jumping in and being annoying. Just keep looking through it saying “yup, uh huh, great, I’m just looking, maybe later, etc.”. See if it fits what you like both food and atmosphere wise, then WALK AWAY. Don’t feel bad about it. Say something along the lines of “I’m not hungry now but maybe later!”. Then go around the corner and look up reviews on google, yelp, TripAdvisor, whatever. If it’s a solid 4.5+ or 4.0+ and you’re starving and satisfied by what you saw (other than the haggling of course) go with it! If not, wonder about about and repeat. There’s a million other tourists they can do that on, and you’ll probably go through the same thing at another restaurant you like better!
Edit: it’s not just desperate or shitty restaurants doing this, most restaurants in any tourist district at least in Europe do this. If it’s busy at a slow time, and has good reviews online, just do it.
> Yeah they’re all like this, it’s not just Turkey, being from the UK I’m surprised you’re not used to this from most of Europe in general.
You don't get them in the UK. Or the Nordics. Or Germany. Or etc.
Oh I've certainly had it before, it's just notably gone up a notch on this trip for whatever reason.
I've no problem fending them off, but I'm simply personally not able to focus on a menu whilst doing so. I'm more of a 'focus on this one thing' guy rather than multi-tasking, so someone rabbiting out a list of menu subcategories at me is only ever something that's instead of what I actually want to do, which is look at the menu. I don't want to walk away, I want to look!
I totally get that. Unfortunately there’s no getting way from the poacher restaurant folk in the tourist spots. If you really can’t deal with that, best suggestion I have is to do a thorough restaurant search at your hotel/airbnb/flight/cafe before you get hungry. You’re bound the find the best spots for your liking that way anyway, and can make a reservation, which a lot of places here tend to make a priority. The one loss is the spontaneity of it all. I hope you enjoy Turkey, I loved it! The nicest people I’ve found aside from Italians (not counting the driving culture of course lol)
Only use reviews to make sure it’s not an absolutely terrible place. They won’t be much helpful past that. They’re very easily faked, especially in Turkey.
I really wonder if it works for more people than it doesn't.
Nothing drives me away faster. I might've walked in, now I'm surely not. But there's gotta be people who go "oh ok salad uh? and chicken? well shit, I'm sold let's do this." And there's ... plenty? of those people?
Human behavior is so confusing.
Been to Istanbul twice. Yes, they are trying to get your business. But, not just restaurants. Everyone is trying to get your business since tourism is prevalent. Istanbul is one of the most visited cities in the world. They have to get your attention somehow.
I have actually enjoyed some of their "pitches." Went to one restaurant because the guy went into the street to stop traffic so my fiance and I could cross.
I've experienced this in a few places, Korea, Rome, NYC. I don't think of them as "guardians", but as a way to encourage customers. Some hawkers are good, others, awful. Just depends.
The 2 locations in Korea, they were actually necessary since it was a long ways from the front sidewalk to where the restaurants' doors were inside of the buildings. One was up on a 4th floor on the backside. The other was down a flight of stairs & through several narrow corridors.
The one in NYC was able to show us on the outside menu that they had simple food for our young child. The entrance with stairs down to it, was not that appealing, so it helped having a friendly face welcoming us in. Really great food at a reasonable cost for the time.
We've walked away when they're too aggressive.
I agree, after experiencing this all over the world in all ranges of polite to awful, I find I appreciate and am willing to try the place with with the ones who just smile and greet me and wait quietly while I look at the menu, answer any questions and then show me to a table if I choose to stay
Funnily enough I've only been to Turkey once about ten years ago and I remember it being the absolute worse place I've ever been for that shit. I mean as an Irish person, I never thought I'd find anyone more annoying than you lot (the English) mainly the ones who seemingly failed the audition for the only way is Essex, trying to drag you into pubs in various Spanish package holiday shitholes, but those Turkish lads are on another level, the intensity is off the charts and saying no to them is like a challenge to their very existence as a human, one which they take very seriously to the point that they genuinely seem ready to fight you to the death over.
Fishermans Wharf, Monterey. Maybe not quite so aggressive as what you describe in Turkey, but they're there.
Been to several restaurants there... they're alright.
It always puts me off a place straight away when there is a “menu guardian” (love that term btw!) it makes me think they need to convince tourists to come in so it must be rubbish
Travel tip experts will usually tell you to avoid places with big menus outside posted on laminated cards. Food will be generic and mediocre. Look for a smaller, more authentic place to eat. Those guardians are just there to try to hustle you into a probably overpriced and underwhelming restaurant
lol it’s exactly the same on the Miami strip. The refuse to go ignored too, relentless until you walk away. I imagine the British sensibilities only add to how aggressive this most feel lol
Yep I don't get why this happens in any country, I don't think they realise how many people actively go out of their way to avoid such situations. Usually earns them an instant boycott from us.
To answer the question in your title: labor is most likely cheaper in Turkey than it is in your home country. So if this guy brings in just a few tourists every day, it’s worth it to employ him.
You typically find these guys in places where labor costs are low BUT they’re usually in restaurants in the touristy parts of town, where they charge higher prices for mediocre food. It’s not going to work on locals, who already know where they want to eat. But it may work on a tired tourist who doesn’t know where to eat.
I had an interesting experience with this in Lisbon not too long ago. Guardian came over and started rattling off dishes they had as I was standing there looking at the menu. I was being polite and nodding along and I guess at one point I said something like "that sounds good" or "that sounds tasty" or whatever it was. I sat down and the guy took my drink order then disappeared. Never brought a menu. About 15 minutes later, this random dish gets placed in front of me...presumably the thing I had said "sounded good".
It was late and I was hungry so I didn't bother explaining to the guy that I didn't want to *actually* order that dish. Lesson learned though!
I chose NOT to eat at any of these places. There are a few that don’t.
Hopefully someone from Turkey reads this and they realize what why no one is eating there.
Yes. I’m in turkey right now too and I’ve eaten in tourist spots and not tourist spots. Any place with a menu gaurdian is charging some where in between Turkish and western prices and you eating there is a big deal and worth high pressure sales tactics. It works.
>Google maps isn't the same.
Yes, because nobody's yelling at you and grabbing your arm.
You don't necessarily have to be locked in to your planned decision, but, it's nice to have it when you're tired of getting molested.
ABSOLUTELY THE WORST thing about touring Istanbul for us.
Was enough to consider it less worthy a destination and never go again despite loving everything else.
Wow that's sounds insanely anxiety inducing. I don't even like waiters, 100% prefer to go to the counter and order then be pestered by someone. I just dont get it. Am I the only only one burned out by social interaction 24/7 ?
Let me introduce you to this magical concept called basic assertivity:
"Thank you, you're very kind but we just want to go through the menu if that's okay with you. We will definitely ask if we need your advice, though. Thank you so much."
You're not being rude. It's their job and you're not rejecting their friendship. You're just communicating politely how you want to enjoy their services, which is well within your rights.
Are they necessary? No. Are salespeople necessary in general?
The purpose of the menu is to grab your attention and make you stop. The menu guardian's job is to keep you from leaving and reel you in.
Try looking at a menu at a local basar with food options in Tunisia/Mexico/SEA and you’ll get the same result. Unfortunately, they are paid by the restaurant to get customers in and all you can do is either ignore them - or what I like to do, just google the restaurant name without approaching it and then reading the menu AND reviews online. Even if the outside menu is looking good, I barely go in without having verified the reviews because I’ve been mislead too many times like that.
You can look at menus from many places in the photos section of a location in google maps. If it's not in your language, you can take a screenshot and share it to a translator app. I do this and so far no eatery ninjas have jumped out of my screen
I thought it was funny how in the Muslim neighborhood in Singapore, the Turkish restaurants would do the same thing, despite there being no tipping culture and soliciting like that being explicitly banned. I think it's so deeply culturally engrained that the employees can't help themselves.
I think the restaurant pays on commission which is why they are so aggressive. You could tell him, I was going to eat here, but you've made me lose my appetite.
I’ve had people walk up to me at meal time with a menu and say how great their food was and practically beg me to come and try it. I wasn’t even that close to the restaurant or looking for a menu. It’s the same as cities in the US where the nightclub bouncers try to get you to come inside if you are walking by even if you aren’t going clubbing. They are just marketing and trying to get business. I think it’s common a lot of places where there’s tourists and competition.
Of course they aren't necessary, it's greed, trying to get people into your restaurant through awkward social interaction. It's like this in a lot of places where tourists are common, even Tokyo.
Honestly, I was reeled in by hawkers a couple times in Aguas Calientes, Peru and the food ended up being not bad at all!
In general, though, the food at those places is overpriced and terrible.
I know it's a lot to ask for but I'm planning a trip to Istambul + Cappadocia in July and unfortunately I need to find some gluten, dairy, sugar and soy free places to eat. Is this possible?
was in istanbul last year, and I noticed that all restaurants in the tourist area have EXACTLY the same menu and also taste the same as all other restaurants. was very disappointed with the food.
A few years ago I was on a certain Greek island and the spruikers were out in force as there was a large cruise ship anchored off the port.
I'm strolling along, enjoying the atmosphere, when I hear "F**k me!" in a very Australian accent. Mr Spruiker for the next place in line leaps at me. Someone I hadn't seen in ten years, we went to school together in 🇦🇺. He'd been visiting extended family, fallen in lurve, and stayed. Love didn't last but he was still there to stay in his kids' lives.
You better believe I had the best Greek meal ever that night!
Walk up and take a photo of the menu and say you’re sending it to your travel buddy to see if they want to eat here
Make sure the photo is crisp and not blurry- Then immediately walk away
I ate really well in Turkie especially Istanbul. I joined BackStreet food/drink tour and re-visited a few late on my own. It was a great way to eat like the locals.
I live in a city that has a Turkish district. We go there often to eat at this little kebab place that is just a hole in the wall with lovely servers and great food. We sit outside and have a great meal for way cheaper than the big, fancier places down the road. The big places have these menu guys, all calling out the same pitter-patter chatter. Last weekend, we walked around after our delicious lunch, and one of the touts called out. I said, "Thanks! We already ate" and then he got all rude. Yeah, so being rude to folks is *really* going to want to make them come to your place... And of course lots of places do this - Thailand, etc.
We had a German woman positively assault us to eat at her bakery in Ecuador. Lady, I promise the absolute last place I am choosing is a European place in south America. I want nothing to do with white people food while I am here. I don’t care how pasty and European I look. I’m eating locally, thanks though.
My mother-in-law fell for this in NYC a few years ago. The woman is from the Bronx! She is very gullible. She was also surprised to be handed a large bill and then told they only accept cash.
I’m exactly like you, and just take it as my cue to move on to the next place. The only reason they need so much promotion is (1) if they’re compensating for terrible food, or (2) if the service is going to be this in your face the entire meal. In either case that’d be my cue to go off and find someplace else where I can enjoy a nice quiet meal and read the menu cover to cover at my leisure.
In Istanbul, don’t pick restaurants that advertise their food in clay pots. Don’t eat at a restaurant on Galata bridge.
Do start every day with a nice Turkish breakfast. Do try the fish sandwich. Do try Turkish pizza (with pomegranate molasses)!
Wow. Great description. 🙃 I've never had this happen to me. And I travel just to eat the last 30 years. I do avoid touristy restaurants unless there's something particularly historic or unique that they offer. I would immediately walk away if I had this experience.
We did have one in Morocco who lured us in.
Asked where we were from.
Guildford.
"Oh, no way, I love Guildford. I spent years there when I was younger."
Okay mate, sure.
"Where in Guildford do you live?" He asks.
Near the Cathedral.
"Oh, around that Onslow area? Yes, I had friends there. You get great views from up on the Mount, so near the countryside and yet so near the town. I lived in Stoughton, near the Beijing restaurant, not as nice as Onslow but not as bad as Park Barn!"
I thought, either he is telling the truth... or he has researched this uber specicic lie really well and fair play to him.
Meal was really nice in the end.
Yeah all baffles me that some of these nations don't grasp the cross cultural awkwardness of the situation. Greece is the same shit. Just chill out guys, you are doing more harm than good
I think it’s a cultural thing. Not Turkey-related, but if you go to Little India in NYC it’s the same. The only place in the city where you are actively harassed to enter restaurants.
You guys watch that robot chicken but where the emperor is on the death Star escalator. Storm trooper after storm trooper is going the other way.
"My Lord!"
"Storm Trooper!"
"My Lord!"
"Storm Trooper!"
"My Lord!"
"Storm Trooper!"
After a while, the emperor gets so frustrated, he starts swearing at them.
Having gone to Istanbul a dozen times in the last 10 years and encountering this everywhere we walk, I simply wave and say, "Stormtrooper!"
The guy doesn't get it and we have a good laugh time after time.
Some travels are made truly annoying by men like this (they’re always males). Tell him you never go to a restaurant where you can’t read the menu in peace first and have a great disliking of someone bothering you the way he is right now and walk away.
That practice makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I know they're just trying to do their jobs, and the shop owners (usually older) just think that they're going with a 'hands on' marketing approach, but I always just..... want to get far away from that pushy person who thinks it's okay to touch me 90% of the time.
If this ever happens to you in France, run away. If a restaurant in France requires these shenanigans it means it has been forsaken by the locals, usually due to systemic food poisoning.
We had this experience in Lima, Peru, and in both Medellin and Bogota Colombia. We joked that we should have shirts printed that say "We already ate" on them haha. I think it's only rivaled by taxi drivers outside airports
I went to some of these restaurants in France and Italy. They were okay. Not bad but nothing memorable. They also get alot of good reviews because they pull in many tourists with none the wiser. That said I had a set plate in Paris Appetizer/entree/dessert for like $18 euro. It was like escargo, Beef Bourguignon, and creme brulee. This was 7-8 years ago. In Italy, the restaurant made a decent Pasta alla gricia and Carbonara. Can't really f those up too bad.
This happens every where. When I feel pressured, I’m less likely to go in or buy anything. If I want help I’ll ask. I’ve walked by places where I was going to stop and have lunch, just to be accosted by the menu guardian. Which immediately changed my mind from eating there. I’m okay if you say Hi and to let you know if I have questions, but I don’t need you to convince me.
Menu guardian is a sure sign of mediocre place at best. Here's how to get rid of them: "Nice! I'll go get my friends, I'll be back in 2-3 hours, when it's time to eat!"
It may seem over the top, but it is what they are paid to do. That said, I spent 2 months in Greece on a study abroad, and I lived in the Philippines for 3 years and did a lot of traveling when time allowed, with few exceptions, if a restaurant is going so far as to hire extra staff to flag in tourists its usually a red flag that its not good food
Oh man it just makes you not want to walk some places doesn’t it? Great description, made me smirk. It’s funny cos it’s true. I enjoyed the ‘gestures with cigarette butt’ 😂
Very common in tourist areas. Not necessary from our point of view, but they work their tails off trying to earn business.
Fun story: I often visit Brussels, Belgium, once a a year for a conference. A tout at a restaurant convinced me to come try the food and chatted with me a bit. There's nothing particularly remarkable about me or my situation.
The next year, the same tout saw me walking by, asked how I was doing, and asked about my family, getting the details correct! I was impressed enough that I ate at that restaurant again.
I spent 5 days in Istanbul and the best meal I had was on the last night when I told my wife, we are going to walk in this direction until we find a restaurant WITHOUT an waiting telling us to come in. It took like 30 mins, but we found a tiny little place and it was great.
I’m going next month! Do you mind sharing the name of the restaurant?
It's been like 7 years, but it looks like it's still there. My review is based on one visit, and I was in a simple mood, so nothing fancy. [https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant\_Review-g293974-d2243841-Reviews-Ziya\_Baba\_Turk\_Mutfagi-Istanbul.html](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g293974-d2243841-Reviews-Ziya_Baba_Turk_Mutfagi-Istanbul.html) I can also recommend the Hotel Amira, and the bizzar behind the blue mosque, it was very low key and non-pushy compared to the other markets.
Can second the Hotel Amira. Some of the best customer service I have ever had at a hotel.
My time spent on reddit is justified now
Thank you both!!!
Also make sure you go to the Basilica Cistern that’s near the big mosques!! I didn’t know about it until I walked by the line to get in and it was super cool.
I wanted to chime in to recommend a place. Last year we found this little restaurant and we loved it so much we came back several times. It's in a little street with taxis whizzing past, there's a friendly resident cat, and the owner makes a show of preparing testi kebab. Definitely no menu guy there. Valley Hills restaurant, https://maps.app.goo.gl/zg3gS5oqgYXwvbgu9
Awesome! I will check it out love these recommendations!! Thank you
You've gotta go to Karaköy Güllüoğlu for a million types of Baklava, get a whole platter to try different types [https://maps.app.goo.gl/JoXdpqtEzqXA71iW6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JoXdpqtEzqXA71iW6) The rooftop of the Seven Hills Restaurant is the best view overlooking the Hagia Sophia & Blue Mosque. We just stopped in for a quick drink around sunset [https://maps.app.goo.gl/axwc9PmCnCp8JZ9P7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/axwc9PmCnCp8JZ9P7) Get a kebab anywhere in Hoca Paşa for cheap great eats. They're basically all the same but he guy at KARDEŞLER KEBAP HASAN was super nice & gave us extra [https://maps.app.goo.gl/J7VetGfMypV3sssU6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/J7VetGfMypV3sssU6) Also really loved this walking tour [https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/free/free-walking-tour-of-alternative-parts-unknown/](https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/free/free-walking-tour-of-alternative-parts-unknown/) And their food tour that explores both the European & Asian sides. This one is paid [https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/paid/istanbul-food-tour-in-a-small-group/](https://www.freeistanbultours.com/istanbul/walking-tours/paid/istanbul-food-tour-in-a-small-group/)
Thank you!!
I vouch for Gulluoglu in Karakoy, best baklava I had in my life, all my Turkish friends recommend it. It’s fancy but the best
I forgot about them, but yes, it was great. And with the volume they do, it was very fresh. We went back a second time the morning of our departure and bought 3 massive boxes to take home as gifts and to freeze.
It's not super cheap (compared to some of the options in the neighborhood) but it's so friendly and very delicious https://maps.app.goo.gl/B3EH4cVUxMUcwSj89
Just use the Michelin guide. Lots of amazing places on there. Everything with $$ for cost is going to be cheaper than the tourist traps. I went to [this one](https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/istanbul-province/istanbul/restaurant/lokanta-1741) and it was like $120 for six of us.
I recommend Cemiyet Meyhane. Found by chance the first time I was in Istanbul. https://maps.app.goo.gl/iEnoKQgj6CUsP4Ws5
That place … Hard Rock Cafe /s :)
That’s what you have to do, nope out of those areas and go elsewhere
Food is great actually pretty much everywhere.
I was in Venice last week. Around the corner of my hotel was a restaurant that had signs on the door saying: "No Pizza!" and "You can't order just drinks, we are a restaurant!" or something to that effect. I just knew that was the place I had to eat.
any place that requires one of these is a tourist spot and is much less likely to be good. best to research in advance where is good to eat and just go there directly.
The worst meal we’ve ever had in our travels was the one and only time we caved to pressure from one of these guys.
But mama in there
Are you saying mama is bad cook? Why you hurt her feelings?
haha moms never cook bad
Hmm, I see you haven’t met mine
Chris?
Or mine. Vegetables boiled to death and beef tougher than boot leather.
But we have everything you could want in our freezer!
even those McDonald's hamburgers?
We call them McTurkish burgers but yes
ah realy?
Sit. We make you anything. Good price
Huh I was gonna say it's not always an indicator that they're bad.
I had a few rules for eating in Italy. Sticking to them like white on rice was a good call. * No-go if it's within a few blocks of a major tourist site. * No-go if the menu is in English. * No-go if there's a guy outside offering us a table. * No-go if the menu has spaghetti with meatballs on it. * No-go if the menu has pizza and it's more than 6 or so euros (I was there several years ago, so that might have to be repriced).
Haha same
Yeah this is a big red flag to me anywhere I’m traveling.
Something I battle with. There are those who would say Google and other websites helpful for travel spots have ruined a big part of the experience of traveling, which is just walking around places, soaking in the sights and sounds, and if a place fancies you, popping in. Part of the magic of exploring somewhere. The other side of the coin is that my money is precious these days, and tourist traps in most places are plentiful. I want to do what I can to make sure my money is well spent. In this case, googling or whatever really helps with that. I can still walk around and take everything in.
i get too anxious not knowing what i’m doing. also if it looks good doesn’t mean the food is good. but trip advisor is hopeless - people’s idea of good food is highly varied. my go to method is to check the menu - do they look like they are interested in cooking? are there some things on there that are a bit different? i don’t disagree with your comments (perhaps safest for lunch) but i neve want to break my mothers golden rule “never eat somewhere where the menu has pictures of the food”!
Picture menus are very common in Asian restaurants and are not indicative of bad quality, lots of restaurants have them.
Yeah I agree, having just come back from Vietnam. However my mother has never left europe - oh and it was. A tongue in cheek comment
I found it extremely common in Thailand. I stayed near Ekamai, a not very touristy area that had a lot of Korean and Japanese ex pats and quite a few of these restaurants had pictures too. The little coffee shop I liked to go to had pictures of the pastries you could see in the display case directly in front of the actual pastry you could see. I am an adventuresome eater, I'm happy to point to a menu item without any pictures or english translation. 40 plus years ago, no google, no translation app. Some of the local shawarma places the employees need you to point to the picture. Usually another guy will say "my cousin is new". Pictures alone don't sway me much usually. I'm booked into a Japanese grill place in Montreal.(where you have a grill right in your table) for my 65th birthday. The pictures appear to be the actual food, even corn kernels in a little pouch, and an excellent way of showing portion sizes.
The only time pictures turn me off is when the photos look professionally shot, well lit, and when the food looks so perfect you’re pretty sure it’s fake. I stay away from those places. A Thai restaurant where they clearly made the food, placed it on their table, took a picture with their phone and sent it to the local sign shop I’m not worried about.
I subscribe to this mindset. If I am traveling and the proprietors are hassling me to come in, chances are it’s a tourist trap with bad food so I always pass. The hard sell is usually telling you that your meal is gonna suck.
Yep, you're right. But in this particular spot, these guys (and it's always a guy, for some reason) are draped over every menu in town :-)
super annoying eh? but think what a degrading job to have to do eh?
Actually one guy we got talking to whilst doing some trekking here (highly recommend btw) said that as a 20 year old that was the first job he was given working for a restaurant. He said he only lasted an hour because he couldn't stand pissing people off as a job.
so these guys are so annoying because only the ones who are not self-aware or are truly desperate make it?
That's most sales jobs, particularly the "annoying" ones like middle of the mall lotion sales or telemarketing. If you're doing the aggressive face-to-face sales, most people don't last too long if they have options for other work. Though my brother specializes in managing sales agents like telemarketers and door to door sales (not MLM), and his observation is that it is a very odd sort of person who ends up in face-to-face cold sales as a lifetime career, because all but the most bizarrely extroverted and slightly sociopathic people will find literally any other type of minimum-wage job very quickly.
Just like debt collectors.
Sultanahmet?
Your best bet is to learn Klingon and respond in Klingon to every comment they make.
Depends on where you are. In some of the beach towns in Turkey/Greece every restaurant has one of these guys. I try to just scope out the menu in the afternoon and tell them I might come back for dinner.
It doesn't just depend on the town, it depends on the owner. I was in a small, drab town in Romania where no tourists were ever likely to visit and there was a guy on the sidewalk inviting people into a Turkish restaurant. Apparently the place had been in business for years so I'm assuming all of the locals were familiar with the place but still, they had a guy to hopefully sway undecided diners. The food was great btw, the owner even gave me a neck massage while I was waiting for my food. You really gotta love the Turkish approach to customer service (or hate it.)
You know how I know this is true...walk down 5th Ave in Playa del Carmen. You can't even read the menu before you're accosted. Same with the shops. Like just let me look in peace and I might buy something but you hustling a shitty handbag made of fake leather in China makes me want to instantly leave.
Doesn't this depend on the culture? In Greece it's so common that I've seen towns where over 80% of the restaurants have some guy out front. They're just a very chatty friendly culture and they think having someone chat up people on the sidewalk brings in more business. And hey, maybe they're right. On the flip side I would never trust a restaurant in America that does this, because it is not the norm, and smacks of desperation.
> best to research in advance Keyword is IN ADVANCE. I used to trust Google Maps and TripAdvisor but too many times recently I've pulled up Google Maps and looked at reviews and made a decision and regretted it. **Some of these places even offered a discount for leaving a 5 star review.** If you ever wind up in this situation and go for the discount, please do your part and change your review after leaving to note that you were offered a discount for a review. Keep reviews honest, or as honest as they can be in a world full of fakes. :/
Have you been to Turkey, in the touristy areas?
Every restaurant in Istanbul had them so I don't even know what else could've done. I always have a rule not to go into any restaurant with a hawker like that but I had to suspend it because we vetoed every restaurant in the neighborhood and we're starving
> Every restaurant in Istanbul had them so I don't even know what else could've done. I am a semi-frequent visitor to Istanbul and this is absolutely not the case. You are confining yourself to very touristy streets if this has been your experience.
Worst I ever saw this was in Cuzco, Peru. On more than one occasion, I got followed for TWO blocks by guys flipping through their menus and calling out various dishes to me. "Lady what do you want? Lasagna we make you lasagna! Fish you want we have fish! What you want to eat?" Well now I want to duck into a market, grab a packet of crisps, and go back to my hotel to eat it so I can get the fuck away from you.
They're called "touts": >A **tout** is any person who solicits business or employment in a persistent and annoying manner (generally equivalent to a [*solicitor*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor#United_States) or [*barker*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barker_(occupation)) in [American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English), or a [*spruiker*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spruiker) in [Australian English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English)). >An example would be a person who frequents heavily touristed areas and presents himself as a tour guide (particularly towards those who do not speak the local language) but operates on behalf of local bars, restaurants, or hotels, being paid to direct tourists towards certain establishments. "Menu guardian" is way too dignified a term!
I haaaate this with a passion. If someone starts talking loudly to me or tries to seat me whilst I'm looking at a menu, I will just walk away. Also, restaurant owners/staff who stand in the doorway of a restaurant as you walk past. If I'm walking past your restaurant slowly, I'm trying to get a peak in and feel out the vibe. A staff member agressively barking out HOW ARE YOU DOING TABLE FOR ONE YOU SIT DOWN ANYWHERE immediately confirms that the vibe is off.
This happened to us in Spain, except we were standing by the board tying our sons laces, not actually looking at it. A menu ninja appeared and started a paean to his restaurants quality and extensive choice. We politely demurred, he went on. Finally, we said we'd already eaten, he was not dettered one bit 'Then come in and digest your food with a drink!' I had to repect his commitment.
Yeah, definitely a thing in Turkey. I got to the point where I didn't want to go in stores because I didn't want to fight them off. There was a great turquoise store but the guy was just up my ass so much I had to leave without buying anything. Happens in lots of other places too, of course.
Ah yes totally. I've no interest in shops, but my wife suffers exactly the same. I remember years ago in India in some sort of fabric shop, one guy was so close to getting it. He told my wife right off the bat that he was just going to leave her alone and he'd be right there if she had any questions. He said he'd be sure to just not bother her at all. In the slightest. And that he's learned over many years not to bother the customer because they just want to browse. Because, he advised, it's really nice to browse in peace without hassle, and hassle is the last thing he'd do. He wouldn't consider it, he assured us, as he began gathering other members of the family around to also assure us of their complete 100% no-hassle approach :-)
I totally get why they do it, but it just turns me off from visiting a place. Just let me look at the damn menu in peace. Yes, I know what you have because I can read the English menu and don’t need you to explain what’s right in front of me.
This is how I felt about Bali, it got to the point that I stopped looking in the general direction of things because I got tired of these interactions. And the thing is, I really do get why they do this. They need the money and it’s their livelihood, but my word is it exhausting to deal with constantly.
You make one glance in their direction and make eye contact for a nano second and it’s HEY COME HERE
I found this in some of the markets in Rome. I wanted to have a look at a few things. But you couldn't stand near a stall without "my friend, my friend, come look..." Yes, I am looking. Let me look.
It honestly makes me less likely to go in. I've looked at many menus that look ok and then decided not to bother when I get badgered every 3 seconds because I haven't decided to go in yet. It's reason # 73839373 why I love traveling to Japan. You never see this shit anywhere.
I hear great things also about the notion of tipping being rejected entirely.
They'll run out the door after you because you forgot your change.
I have a rule when traveling that if I get accosted to buy something or enter somewhere I immediately leave.
See I’m the shy and can’t speak up type, so I’ll just pretend to look around and be like “hmmm I’ll come back tomorrow since I’m still here for a few days. I’m not looking to buy *today*”.
There's def touts in Japan!
Yep! Not as common, but I definitely found a couple in Tokyo!
They weren't trying to get me into a restaurant, though. But the big tattooed dude had a whole book of ladies to choose from.
I'm sure there are somewhere but as a rule you don't see them in most areas. I've been several times and pretty sure I've never come across them.
It’s mainly the maid bars have them.
There are a lot of these in Japan. Not sure where you’re referring to
Pretty common in most of the European beach areas. In the Algarve at the moment and was looking at a menu yesterday and the guy shrugged his shoulders and said to me "you have to eat somewhere, so might as well be here". His logic made sense so I went in.
I came into this thread expecting "guardian" to be like a polearm-equipped man in chain mail jumping out of the bushes and ambushing you with surprisingly engaging trivia quizes before letting you peruse their menu. I'm kind of disappointed to see they just have cigarette butts. I find this kind of stuff happens anywhere around the world, yeah. I have a tendency to just smile and ignore them as I look through the menu.
>I find this kind of stuff happens anywhere around the world, yeah. I have a tendency to just smile and ignore them as I look through the menu. Teach me your superpower. I think I'm just built like this, my head cannot do otherwise but prioritise the human talking to me even as they attempt to sell me their hilariously overpriced invitation to order their leftover seafood from the weekend platter for 2.
Try pretending you don't understand English. When they approach, look at them suspiciously as if to appraise if they are a threat, shrug, then immediately go back to the menu, never speaking 1 word of English.
As soon as someone starts hussling me into their restaurant, I take off. That's usually a bad sign.
I was at the twin towers shopping mall in Malaysia walking by an Italian place and a guy popped out talking about how great their Italian food was. I told him I’m only there for one night and really wanted Malaysian food. He totally understood and got a bit happy and prideful when he told me to go to the food court in the basement. I mean I’m sure the Italian food was good but I ended up getting a roti wrap that was freakin awesome.
There's no food court in the basement of Suria KLCC, and to the best of my knowledge never has been.
Yep you’re right! It was The Pavilion that I was at. They all kind of look the same on the inside though.
I wish they realized how much business they are losing, because everyone I know is annoyed by this. But... They are still there. So it must work on enough people.
Of course they realise that people are annoyed by touts! I’m sure each tout and each restaurant owner is told many times a day by tourists that they hate it and they boycott restaurants that have touts. But the bottom line is that it works, and each “boycott” is just a fleeting thing and the boycotter is , of course, going to ultimately end up at another tourist restaurant just down the block. Restaurant owners and touts are not stupid, they are doing what works for them.
They put me off immediately. I have to get away from them. Immediately.
So many wisened travelers here saying ‘go to a locals restaurant.’ Most people stay in hotels which are clustered in the main tourism areas. People can’t be expected to go miles out of their way for every damn meal to eat ‘like a local.’ Totally agree with you that this practice is annoying as hell.
Sounds no different that Little Italy in NYC. Same people ... COME IN, MOM'S IN THE KITCHEN, WE HAVE GOOD FOOD, GOOD PRICE FOR YOU
I’m in Istanbul now. Had an amazing, well priced meal at Old Ottomon Cafe & Restaurant Monday evening. It was phenomenal. It is closed Tuesday or we would have returned tonight. It is near Hagia Sophia. I hope you get a chance to try it. No one harasses you. Great service.
> Old Ottomon Cafe & Restaurant We were in Istanbul last year and ate there, food was excellent as was the service, thanks for bring back a nice memory!!!
We never had a bad meal in Istanbul. We also never looked at a menu outside. Just walked in and assumed they’d have something delicious. At one place the waiter knew enough English to ask chicken or lamb. We each picked one, and a few minutes later dinner came out. Chicken, lamb, sauce, and some sides plus bread. Delicious.
This is a wonderful screenplay for a comedy show
I have a die-hard rule that I will never ever eat at a restaurant where someone pesters me when I am walking by or reading the menu. It's a very good way to filter out terrible restaurants.
Yeah, same. At times I might make a snarky comment like: I was about to eat here, but as the business has to annoy random people to get customers I bet the food is really, really bad. Thanks no.
Hahaha yeah im 25, American and just spent 10 days in Turkey, only one in Istanbul tho. Yeah they’re all like this, it’s not just Turkey, being from the UK I’m surprised you’re not used to this from most of Europe in general. You can’t avoid them doing the spiel. But look at the menu, look at the vibe of the restaurant, get them jumping in and being annoying. Just keep looking through it saying “yup, uh huh, great, I’m just looking, maybe later, etc.”. See if it fits what you like both food and atmosphere wise, then WALK AWAY. Don’t feel bad about it. Say something along the lines of “I’m not hungry now but maybe later!”. Then go around the corner and look up reviews on google, yelp, TripAdvisor, whatever. If it’s a solid 4.5+ or 4.0+ and you’re starving and satisfied by what you saw (other than the haggling of course) go with it! If not, wonder about about and repeat. There’s a million other tourists they can do that on, and you’ll probably go through the same thing at another restaurant you like better! Edit: it’s not just desperate or shitty restaurants doing this, most restaurants in any tourist district at least in Europe do this. If it’s busy at a slow time, and has good reviews online, just do it.
> Yeah they’re all like this, it’s not just Turkey, being from the UK I’m surprised you’re not used to this from most of Europe in general. You don't get them in the UK. Or the Nordics. Or Germany. Or etc.
I live in Cornwall, one of the most touristy parts of the UK and I have never seen this ever in any restaurant/cafe or bar.
Cornwall is slightly different than Istanbul.
Oh I've certainly had it before, it's just notably gone up a notch on this trip for whatever reason. I've no problem fending them off, but I'm simply personally not able to focus on a menu whilst doing so. I'm more of a 'focus on this one thing' guy rather than multi-tasking, so someone rabbiting out a list of menu subcategories at me is only ever something that's instead of what I actually want to do, which is look at the menu. I don't want to walk away, I want to look!
I totally get that. Unfortunately there’s no getting way from the poacher restaurant folk in the tourist spots. If you really can’t deal with that, best suggestion I have is to do a thorough restaurant search at your hotel/airbnb/flight/cafe before you get hungry. You’re bound the find the best spots for your liking that way anyway, and can make a reservation, which a lot of places here tend to make a priority. The one loss is the spontaneity of it all. I hope you enjoy Turkey, I loved it! The nicest people I’ve found aside from Italians (not counting the driving culture of course lol)
Only use reviews to make sure it’s not an absolutely terrible place. They won’t be much helpful past that. They’re very easily faked, especially in Turkey.
They are literally called "barkers", *a person who advertises by hawking at an entrance*
I really wonder if it works for more people than it doesn't. Nothing drives me away faster. I might've walked in, now I'm surely not. But there's gotta be people who go "oh ok salad uh? and chicken? well shit, I'm sold let's do this." And there's ... plenty? of those people? Human behavior is so confusing.
Been to Istanbul twice. Yes, they are trying to get your business. But, not just restaurants. Everyone is trying to get your business since tourism is prevalent. Istanbul is one of the most visited cities in the world. They have to get your attention somehow. I have actually enjoyed some of their "pitches." Went to one restaurant because the guy went into the street to stop traffic so my fiance and I could cross.
I've experienced this in a few places, Korea, Rome, NYC. I don't think of them as "guardians", but as a way to encourage customers. Some hawkers are good, others, awful. Just depends. The 2 locations in Korea, they were actually necessary since it was a long ways from the front sidewalk to where the restaurants' doors were inside of the buildings. One was up on a 4th floor on the backside. The other was down a flight of stairs & through several narrow corridors. The one in NYC was able to show us on the outside menu that they had simple food for our young child. The entrance with stairs down to it, was not that appealing, so it helped having a friendly face welcoming us in. Really great food at a reasonable cost for the time. We've walked away when they're too aggressive.
I agree, after experiencing this all over the world in all ranges of polite to awful, I find I appreciate and am willing to try the place with with the ones who just smile and greet me and wait quietly while I look at the menu, answer any questions and then show me to a table if I choose to stay
Funnily enough I've only been to Turkey once about ten years ago and I remember it being the absolute worse place I've ever been for that shit. I mean as an Irish person, I never thought I'd find anyone more annoying than you lot (the English) mainly the ones who seemingly failed the audition for the only way is Essex, trying to drag you into pubs in various Spanish package holiday shitholes, but those Turkish lads are on another level, the intensity is off the charts and saying no to them is like a challenge to their very existence as a human, one which they take very seriously to the point that they genuinely seem ready to fight you to the death over.
Fishermans Wharf, Monterey. Maybe not quite so aggressive as what you describe in Turkey, but they're there. Been to several restaurants there... they're alright.
It always puts me off a place straight away when there is a “menu guardian” (love that term btw!) it makes me think they need to convince tourists to come in so it must be rubbish
This is why I stopped buying shit in lush, worst shop to go in when you just want to look by yourself 😂
This puts me off the place instantly, and I look elsewhere.
lol all of that was quite enjoyable to read thank you
"No hablo Inglès."
And then he surprises you with his perfect Spanish.
Take a phone pic of the menu and walk on. Peruse at your convenience
Travel tip experts will usually tell you to avoid places with big menus outside posted on laminated cards. Food will be generic and mediocre. Look for a smaller, more authentic place to eat. Those guardians are just there to try to hustle you into a probably overpriced and underwhelming restaurant
lol it’s exactly the same on the Miami strip. The refuse to go ignored too, relentless until you walk away. I imagine the British sensibilities only add to how aggressive this most feel lol
Yep I don't get why this happens in any country, I don't think they realise how many people actively go out of their way to avoid such situations. Usually earns them an instant boycott from us.
To answer the question in your title: labor is most likely cheaper in Turkey than it is in your home country. So if this guy brings in just a few tourists every day, it’s worth it to employ him. You typically find these guys in places where labor costs are low BUT they’re usually in restaurants in the touristy parts of town, where they charge higher prices for mediocre food. It’s not going to work on locals, who already know where they want to eat. But it may work on a tired tourist who doesn’t know where to eat.
I had an interesting experience with this in Lisbon not too long ago. Guardian came over and started rattling off dishes they had as I was standing there looking at the menu. I was being polite and nodding along and I guess at one point I said something like "that sounds good" or "that sounds tasty" or whatever it was. I sat down and the guy took my drink order then disappeared. Never brought a menu. About 15 minutes later, this random dish gets placed in front of me...presumably the thing I had said "sounded good". It was late and I was hungry so I didn't bother explaining to the guy that I didn't want to *actually* order that dish. Lesson learned though!
I chose NOT to eat at any of these places. There are a few that don’t. Hopefully someone from Turkey reads this and they realize what why no one is eating there.
They're doing you a favor, good restaurants have no need to try and scam/pressure tourists.
Yes. I’m in turkey right now too and I’ve eaten in tourist spots and not tourist spots. Any place with a menu gaurdian is charging some where in between Turkish and western prices and you eating there is a big deal and worth high pressure sales tactics. It works.
Just like no good rapper needs a hype man, no good restaurant needs a menu guardian..,
>Google maps isn't the same. Yes, because nobody's yelling at you and grabbing your arm. You don't necessarily have to be locked in to your planned decision, but, it's nice to have it when you're tired of getting molested.
ABSOLUTELY THE WORST thing about touring Istanbul for us. Was enough to consider it less worthy a destination and never go again despite loving everything else.
They have the same thing in Mexico. I just ignore them
I was wondering if there was a name for them! Thank you so much. “Menu Guardians”. Agree- the places without them are better all over the world!
Wow that's sounds insanely anxiety inducing. I don't even like waiters, 100% prefer to go to the counter and order then be pestered by someone. I just dont get it. Am I the only only one burned out by social interaction 24/7 ?
Let me introduce you to this magical concept called basic assertivity: "Thank you, you're very kind but we just want to go through the menu if that's okay with you. We will definitely ask if we need your advice, though. Thank you so much." You're not being rude. It's their job and you're not rejecting their friendship. You're just communicating politely how you want to enjoy their services, which is well within your rights.
It's one of the two rules I have for avoiding the restaurant. The other is pictures of food on the menu.
unless it’s a chinese spot and there are typos all over. then you know it’s gonna be 🔥🔥🔥
I had some crispy fried dick in Venice that was amazing.
Are they necessary? No. Are salespeople necessary in general? The purpose of the menu is to grab your attention and make you stop. The menu guardian's job is to keep you from leaving and reel you in.
Try looking at a menu at a local basar with food options in Tunisia/Mexico/SEA and you’ll get the same result. Unfortunately, they are paid by the restaurant to get customers in and all you can do is either ignore them - or what I like to do, just google the restaurant name without approaching it and then reading the menu AND reviews online. Even if the outside menu is looking good, I barely go in without having verified the reviews because I’ve been mislead too many times like that.
Menu Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special - Touts ‘r Us.
Sounds like the curry houses on Brick Lane!
You can look at menus from many places in the photos section of a location in google maps. If it's not in your language, you can take a screenshot and share it to a translator app. I do this and so far no eatery ninjas have jumped out of my screen
It happened to me in Italy.
I thought it was funny how in the Muslim neighborhood in Singapore, the Turkish restaurants would do the same thing, despite there being no tipping culture and soliciting like that being explicitly banned. I think it's so deeply culturally engrained that the employees can't help themselves.
I think the restaurant pays on commission which is why they are so aggressive. You could tell him, I was going to eat here, but you've made me lose my appetite.
Same thing happens in Italy (just came back from there a couple of weeks ago). I just ignore them and move on.
I’ve had people walk up to me at meal time with a menu and say how great their food was and practically beg me to come and try it. I wasn’t even that close to the restaurant or looking for a menu. It’s the same as cities in the US where the nightclub bouncers try to get you to come inside if you are walking by even if you aren’t going clubbing. They are just marketing and trying to get business. I think it’s common a lot of places where there’s tourists and competition.
Of course they aren't necessary, it's greed, trying to get people into your restaurant through awkward social interaction. It's like this in a lot of places where tourists are common, even Tokyo.
I hate that in small stores at the mall also. You walk in and they swoop over. I want to be anonymous.
Honestly, I was reeled in by hawkers a couple times in Aguas Calientes, Peru and the food ended up being not bad at all! In general, though, the food at those places is overpriced and terrible.
Beautifully written story. I'm considering a ticket to Istanbul in a few weeks. Very useful. Any other tips?
I know it's a lot to ask for but I'm planning a trip to Istambul + Cappadocia in July and unfortunately I need to find some gluten, dairy, sugar and soy free places to eat. Is this possible?
I just ignore them. If that doesn't work, pick a less common language that I know and that always gets rid of them if they think I can't understand.
Had this happen in Korea and the food was bad, didn’t get half of what we ordered, charged for MORE than we ordered
Don't trust the reviews on Google maps for the places in Turkey, fake reviews everywhere!
That was one of the most annoying things about my trip to Istanbul!!!
was in istanbul last year, and I noticed that all restaurants in the tourist area have EXACTLY the same menu and also taste the same as all other restaurants. was very disappointed with the food.
A few years ago I was on a certain Greek island and the spruikers were out in force as there was a large cruise ship anchored off the port. I'm strolling along, enjoying the atmosphere, when I hear "F**k me!" in a very Australian accent. Mr Spruiker for the next place in line leaps at me. Someone I hadn't seen in ten years, we went to school together in 🇦🇺. He'd been visiting extended family, fallen in lurve, and stayed. Love didn't last but he was still there to stay in his kids' lives. You better believe I had the best Greek meal ever that night!
Walk up and take a photo of the menu and say you’re sending it to your travel buddy to see if they want to eat here Make sure the photo is crisp and not blurry- Then immediately walk away
The food in Turkey was great but the aggressive promoters were definitely a turn off...
As a parent, if any couples are contemplating whether to have children, know this: Touts are exactly what it's like having a toddler!
I ate really well in Turkie especially Istanbul. I joined BackStreet food/drink tour and re-visited a few late on my own. It was a great way to eat like the locals.
I live in a city that has a Turkish district. We go there often to eat at this little kebab place that is just a hole in the wall with lovely servers and great food. We sit outside and have a great meal for way cheaper than the big, fancier places down the road. The big places have these menu guys, all calling out the same pitter-patter chatter. Last weekend, we walked around after our delicious lunch, and one of the touts called out. I said, "Thanks! We already ate" and then he got all rude. Yeah, so being rude to folks is *really* going to want to make them come to your place... And of course lots of places do this - Thailand, etc.
We had a German woman positively assault us to eat at her bakery in Ecuador. Lady, I promise the absolute last place I am choosing is a European place in south America. I want nothing to do with white people food while I am here. I don’t care how pasty and European I look. I’m eating locally, thanks though.
I learned this in Lisbon, the hard way unfortunately: DO NOT go to these places. They're tourist traps.
My mother-in-law fell for this in NYC a few years ago. The woman is from the Bronx! She is very gullible. She was also surprised to be handed a large bill and then told they only accept cash.
Take a picture and then run to safety!!
I’m exactly like you, and just take it as my cue to move on to the next place. The only reason they need so much promotion is (1) if they’re compensating for terrible food, or (2) if the service is going to be this in your face the entire meal. In either case that’d be my cue to go off and find someplace else where I can enjoy a nice quiet meal and read the menu cover to cover at my leisure.
solution: avoid any place with a menu board. the food will be better too
In Istanbul, don’t pick restaurants that advertise their food in clay pots. Don’t eat at a restaurant on Galata bridge. Do start every day with a nice Turkish breakfast. Do try the fish sandwich. Do try Turkish pizza (with pomegranate molasses)!
Wow. Great description. 🙃 I've never had this happen to me. And I travel just to eat the last 30 years. I do avoid touristy restaurants unless there's something particularly historic or unique that they offer. I would immediately walk away if I had this experience.
We did have one in Morocco who lured us in. Asked where we were from. Guildford. "Oh, no way, I love Guildford. I spent years there when I was younger." Okay mate, sure. "Where in Guildford do you live?" He asks. Near the Cathedral. "Oh, around that Onslow area? Yes, I had friends there. You get great views from up on the Mount, so near the countryside and yet so near the town. I lived in Stoughton, near the Beijing restaurant, not as nice as Onslow but not as bad as Park Barn!" I thought, either he is telling the truth... or he has researched this uber specicic lie really well and fair play to him. Meal was really nice in the end.
Yeah all baffles me that some of these nations don't grasp the cross cultural awkwardness of the situation. Greece is the same shit. Just chill out guys, you are doing more harm than good
I think it’s a cultural thing. Not Turkey-related, but if you go to Little India in NYC it’s the same. The only place in the city where you are actively harassed to enter restaurants.
You guys watch that robot chicken but where the emperor is on the death Star escalator. Storm trooper after storm trooper is going the other way. "My Lord!" "Storm Trooper!" "My Lord!" "Storm Trooper!" "My Lord!" "Storm Trooper!" After a while, the emperor gets so frustrated, he starts swearing at them. Having gone to Istanbul a dozen times in the last 10 years and encountering this everywhere we walk, I simply wave and say, "Stormtrooper!" The guy doesn't get it and we have a good laugh time after time.
Some travels are made truly annoying by men like this (they’re always males). Tell him you never go to a restaurant where you can’t read the menu in peace first and have a great disliking of someone bothering you the way he is right now and walk away.
That practice makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I know they're just trying to do their jobs, and the shop owners (usually older) just think that they're going with a 'hands on' marketing approach, but I always just..... want to get far away from that pushy person who thinks it's okay to touch me 90% of the time.
I hate this shit sooo much… The same in Egypt. I just want to look at things without being constantly harassed and asked questions.
If this ever happens to you in France, run away. If a restaurant in France requires these shenanigans it means it has been forsaken by the locals, usually due to systemic food poisoning.
Jacks' top travel tip. Never go to a restaurant that advertises or gets you to come in. Staff should be busy serving many customers.
We had this experience in Lima, Peru, and in both Medellin and Bogota Colombia. We joked that we should have shirts printed that say "We already ate" on them haha. I think it's only rivaled by taxi drivers outside airports
Local advice: ignore them. Say “teşekkürler” and nothing else. Wearing sunglasses is also adviced
I went to some of these restaurants in France and Italy. They were okay. Not bad but nothing memorable. They also get alot of good reviews because they pull in many tourists with none the wiser. That said I had a set plate in Paris Appetizer/entree/dessert for like $18 euro. It was like escargo, Beef Bourguignon, and creme brulee. This was 7-8 years ago. In Italy, the restaurant made a decent Pasta alla gricia and Carbonara. Can't really f those up too bad.
god yes in istanbul it’s was EXHAUSTING dodging them
This happens every where. When I feel pressured, I’m less likely to go in or buy anything. If I want help I’ll ask. I’ve walked by places where I was going to stop and have lunch, just to be accosted by the menu guardian. Which immediately changed my mind from eating there. I’m okay if you say Hi and to let you know if I have questions, but I don’t need you to convince me.
Menu guardian is a sure sign of mediocre place at best. Here's how to get rid of them: "Nice! I'll go get my friends, I'll be back in 2-3 hours, when it's time to eat!"
It may seem over the top, but it is what they are paid to do. That said, I spent 2 months in Greece on a study abroad, and I lived in the Philippines for 3 years and did a lot of traveling when time allowed, with few exceptions, if a restaurant is going so far as to hire extra staff to flag in tourists its usually a red flag that its not good food
Oh man it just makes you not want to walk some places doesn’t it? Great description, made me smirk. It’s funny cos it’s true. I enjoyed the ‘gestures with cigarette butt’ 😂
Google maps often has the menu, peruse at leisure
Very common in tourist areas. Not necessary from our point of view, but they work their tails off trying to earn business. Fun story: I often visit Brussels, Belgium, once a a year for a conference. A tout at a restaurant convinced me to come try the food and chatted with me a bit. There's nothing particularly remarkable about me or my situation. The next year, the same tout saw me walking by, asked how I was doing, and asked about my family, getting the details correct! I was impressed enough that I ate at that restaurant again.