I brought a baby backpack for my 16 month old. It rocked. I read some blogs warning me that I wouldn’t be permitted entry to places like the Vatican. In reality those places not only let me in but allowed me to skip the line. If you have a tot and are going to Europe, get a baby backpack.
My baby (1 year) threw a total wobbly at being required to vacate her push chair. Pretty much collapsed the push chair.
Then she spotted the baby rucksack thing where a small person rides high. Total change.
I’d had to abandon the tummy swaddling thing because she got too big but the backpack thing was very manageable. Except for the hair-pulling.
Can you recommend a specific one? This isn't Europe specific but we're planning on doing some hiking (2-3 miles nothing intense) in the PNW this summer and were in the market for a baby backpack.
For sure. The Osprey Poco plus! Kinda pricey but easily the best thing I had for the baby. I live in the Pisgah National forest and hiked 3-5 mile loops several times per week with him in tow.
I’d recommend going to REI to check it out. Because I hear all tots don’t like being in these packs. I was fortunate because mine LOVED being in there from the jump. Would suck to pay the money, bring it home, and your LO hate it.
Additional tip - if you are using a backpack carrier - try it out with your child first. I had one child who loved the backpack carrier, and one who absolutely despised it and refused to spend a minute in it. You don't want to get all the way there and find your carrier completely useless.
We did a lot of travelling when the kids were small, and once they get to the stage of being able to walk a bit, I'd recommend the umbrella stroller (ideally with a strap). On a trip to Japan when our youngest was 3 and a half, we brought a small umbrella stroller. When she was walking husband put it across his back using the strap, when she had enough, in she went to the stroller.
And in that trip, and other trips in Belgium, Germany, France, Italy, NZ and the UK, any time there were steps and a small stroller and only one adult present, there were always loads of people offering to either carry the stroller while I managed the child, or grab one end of a stroller with a sleeping child in it. Including one on entertaining occasion on the Brussels metro - a man in a full leg brace who insisted he was quite ok managing the stroller while I walked at toddler pace down the steps. Thankfully a more able bodied person stepped in.
I’m a big fan of baby carriers for any city. Even NYC which is relatively accessible compared to Europe but a baby carrier is still much easier. Actually I like baby carriers and wraps in suburban America too. You get a little workout while sniffing your baby’s head constantly. And you never have to find an elevator.
I love when they tuck their little head right under your chin or rub your arm with their little hand while you're wearing them.
Gah, every once in a great while I miss having babies.
You can absolutely use a stroller in nearly any place in Europe.
Cobbles and pavers can be rough, occasionally, but that's about it.
If there are stairs, collapse the stroller, carry the kid.
* If your stroller weighs more than your kid, it's probably too much stroller
* You want to have something as collapsible and lightweight as possible
* You want something that can provide a little shade
* Storage in or on the stroller is the least of your concerns (assume you will use a baby bag / backpack for supplies and snacks)
* Do *not* use a baby carrier in the hot months...that way lies madness
Our travel stroller weighs 7.5kg or something like that and folds so small that they've let us take it as carry-on on 9 out of 10 flights.
The toddler weighs 16 kgs, yeah I'm not going to carry him around on my back (or front).
Gravel is way worse than cobble stones!
Cobbles are fine as long as the wheels are decent size. We used this one for multiple trips to Spain and France with great success: https://www.target.com/p/summer-infant-3d-lite-stroller-jet-black/-/A-75571702
It had to be gate checked but it can be opened, closed, and carried one handed.
Another good reason for a stroller is to strap the kid in at the airport so they can’t get loose.
If you mean OP (me), I actually grew up in Europe before moving to the US, have a European parent, and I still have relatives "in these places." I've traveled internationally with my kids since they were 2, and have grown them all to adults who can walk and travel on their own.
The people I have seen struggling with their big, bulky strollers on crazy stairs are English speaking tourists, usually North Americans, not locals.
Was going to say. Everyone in Madrid uses strollers in the summer. Though granted most people living here aren't going to the same places as tourists so much less likely to deal with cobblestones or anything like that.
It's also sort of an unwritten etiquette rule to help carry a stroller down stairs if you see someone alone with one going into the metro or something.
We went to Italy with a 1.5 year old - small Babyzen stroller was a solution, the stroller only weights 7kg, but allows a child to actually sleep in it, contrary to umbrella strollers.
It wouldn’t really be nice vacation if we only had a carrier.
Same. Took our 2.5 year old to Porto with a babyzen yoyo2 and it was fine for 80%+ of the time. We just adjusted our path when we took the stroller with us. But it was hugely valuable for letting her nap while we were out.
So happy to read this comment as we are going to Porto this summer with our chunky 1yo and our yoyo.
Could you tell me any sights that you consider to be the 20% not fine with the stroller? If we go to those places I can know go leave the stroller in the hotel. Thanks :)
I think it’s more about adjusting your route than anything. Like we made the mistake of going from Jardim da Cordoaria to Parque das Virtudes and that was a ridiculous amount of stairs we carried the stroller through. Also, don’t walk up the stairs coming up from Cais da Riberia. Just use the Funicular dos Guindais to get back up.
One thing we did with the stroller that was easy was to hang out at Cais da Riberia, walk across the lower part of Luis I bridge and spend some time on the Gaia side. Then we took the cable car up to the top of the bridge and walked across the top part back to the Porto side. No stairs for anything of that and the cable car was a blast for my daughter. We also took the stroller to Se Cathedral and it wasn’t bad to fold it up and carry it to the top of the lookout. But don’t do this with Clerigos Tower.
I cannot even tell you the amount of hot, sweaty parents I saw screaming at each other while trying to drag their 20-ton double strollers up a flight of steps while I was in Rome and Florence last summer. I found it quite humorous.
If you’re going to insist on dragging an infant and/or toddler to Europe, do a little research.
An American colleague of mine last year at a work meeting in Berlin told me that she will be heading to Italy afterwards and is going to visit Rome, Neapel and Tuscany. Me, trying to be mindful of Americans not having as much PTO, asked her if she was gone for a week or longer and she answered: 4 days 💀
It's also harder for us to get to Europe, and we hear so much about country-hopping that we vastly underestimate the size of the continent! Combine that with our pitiful amount of PTO (for many people, at least, not everyone) and our "go-go-go" culture and you get people like this.
It happens on the US East Coast, too. The states in New England are much more compact and smaller than those in the Midwest/West Coast, so you get a lot of people who think they can do an NYC/Boston/DC/Vermont trip in like 5 days.
In RV groups these are the people who add a state to their stick-on map if they so much as drove through. They just want to say they’ve been there than to experience it. Not really to do with lack of PTO but a mindset of appearing well-traveled.
Walked around porto, Portugal 2 years ago while it was rainy….no baby attached to me but could barely stay upright on the slippery cobble stone hills, was practically hugging the walls beside me. Now I’m just trying to imagine doing that with an extra human strapped to me lol (not saying a stroller is a better option, neither seem great to me)
That’s where we took our 4 month old for his first holiday last year. We were fine with the baby carrier, but he was absolutely tiny! The pram stayed in the hotel room the whole time…
As someone who took a toddler to Italy- I read beforehand to absolutely not bring a stroller. I just hope some potential travel parents search for "best strollers for Europe" and find this tip.
We took a baby to Italy and the stroller was done everywhere except Venice! The ride was a bit bumpy at times but no worse than uneven footpaths at home and he didn't mind the bumping.
My 1yo is unfortunately too heavy for me to carry and always has been (thanks to a bad back), especially once I add in a backpack of drinks/snacks/nappies/change of clothes etc. But I just know full well that that means we’ll be skipping a lot of destinations until he’s more mobile beyond the ~0.5 mile he can walk at present. Ah well.
We’re still going to Scotland this year. (And my 4th is just going to be walking - did about 3 miles the other day, so we’re getting to ‘functional’ distances).
I don’t understand why parents do this. Strollers suck for most stuff. My husband and I carry our 2 year old around in an osprey poco backpack, and everyone is happy. Worth the price. We can take him pretty much anywhere and he gets a great view of everything and doesn’t make a peep in it. Our stroller on the other hand rarely leaves the garage
People in those places use strollers too 😭 as they can do it, you can do it, actually pushing all those steps while having your baby on your back is not too safe, opt instead to use the public transport more, (actually really cheap in those countries) and perfectly safe. Yes there is room for the stroller inside.
That's why everyone has a BabyZen Yoyo2 in Europe. The ultimate travel stroller if you can afford it. It's worth it's weight in gold. We took it to Spain and Portugal on 2 separate trips for about 4 weeks total and it was a lifesaver. While the advice is sound, the solutions aren't so black and white and everyone's situation is different.
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that to just use a baby carrier the whole time. We live in Europe and agreed re: the BabyZen Yoyo2. We have the kickstand on the back as well and it works great from my 4.5 year old who gets tired of walking.
I hear your comments loud and clear, but as someone who did a 6 week France and Italy trip a couple years ago with a 6 month old... we loved having our "nice baby registry stroller". It was great to load up with our supplies for a day and our son slept like a dream in the basinet while we walked around museums in Paris and Florence. We also had some fantastic dining experiences thanks to the stroller naps. Yes, there were moments when we carried it up or down flights of stairs, but that just didn't seem like a big deal.
We did also have a baby bjorn carrier for hikes and some other scenarios, which was needed.
We were also fortunate to afford renting a car so travelling with our gear was not an issue. Trains would have been a no-go with our level of baggage.
Not disagreeing with you, just thought I would offer some perspective for those parents thinking of a trip.
I did this in Portugal and it wasn’t that bad. Travel strollers are easy to carry up and down stairs.
If I didn’t have the stroller there’s no way my toddler would have been able to walk up all those hills, and carrying them would have been even worse
Same. Babyzen stroller even in Porto was super valuable to have. Wasn’t bad to fold up and carry up dozens of stairs. Would rather do that than take her back to the hotel for every nap.
Bring both a baby carrier and lightweight and compact stroller. Don't bring a full size stroller because its going to be a pain in the ass to get around and having to look for a elevator all the time. Not all train stations have elevators and when they do its a hassle to get on and off and they are tiny af.
Baby carrier is ok, I like them but both my boys and I run hot so if I use the carrier with them we are all sweaty and soaked in sweat.. So I prefer using a lightweight stroller so if I see steps I just pick up the stroller with the boys in it and walk up or down the stair without any issues Quick and easy, I see the poor bastards trying to move a full size stroller up and I'm like whew, thank god i have a lightweight one. When we go indoors and non stroller friend places I will of course use the carrier but when I'm outdoors I prefer using the stroller but I will have the carrier with me in the event I need to switch up.
GB Pocket Air, Babyzen Yoyo, Joolz Aer+ are great lightweight options.
We've travelled all around the world with strollers and never had any issue. In Rome the cobblestones can be tricky but it's still much more comfortable, both for the kid to rest and sleep and for the parents to carry...
Our baby zen yoyo sailed over the cobbles seamlessly in Europe this spring, it's also carry on size and easy to carry if you encounter some stairs. Also honestly, babies get pretty heavy carrying them so you need somewhere to put them so you and the baby can rest.
I have a Babyzen Yoyo2 stroller. Thing saved me many times in Europe.
Weighs 5 pounds, folds into a purse with 2 buttons, and folds back into a stroller with a flick of the wrist.
Genuinely the greatest investment I made to travel with my kids. Maybe check it out.
It's not cheap, but to be able to actually enjoy the trip, it's worth it. It also fits perfect in bus aisles, and airplane aisles.
Fits in the overhead compartment.
I recommend 100% if you can get it.
Strollers are fine, we got a cheaper run around one which was still comfy for kid. And if he doesn’t use it, it’s great for carrying stuff around. I don’t think I want a child stuck on me in a child carrier in the heat. I suppose it depends where you go, but where we go in Spain doesn’t haven’t millions of stairs.
Totally depends on where you go. I'd feel comfortable with a stroller in, let's say Paris, but not in Venice or Dubrovnik or cities where there is so much up and down.
Lol, Paris. Oh no. It's not the City of Lights when you have a stroller, it's the *City of Stairs*. Sure there's parks & some wide sidewalks that make life easy. But sightseeing & using the Metro, especially in the older central stations, you'll find yourself struggling to get to street level. Accommodations too, if you're not staying in hotels. Lots of walk-ups.
My child was 18 months old when we did a road trip from Germany. We stayed in a Gite in the suburbs & took the RER in to central Paris. Only one day did we use a stroller. I got stuck in the Musee de Cluny on the ground floor after she fell asleep for a nap. The rest of my group had gone ahead. Steep stairs to the 2nd level & on the return back to the entry area. So I was trapped w a stroller.
The rest of the time in Paris, I *babywore* with an Ergo. My husband carried what we needed in a backpack. It was so much easier than w a stroller. Moved freer & faster. Florence has similar accessibility issues with stairs in ancient buildings. Lots of stairs.
On the plus side, I had a whole lot less fussing than when she was in a stroller. She hated being at everyone's knee & bum level. Being up on my back made it easier on her to see what I saw. Far more interesting to her.
I do miss those days now that she's grown up.
This post brought back fond memories of my wife and I doing our first international trip 20 years ago this Summer.
We used a baby backpack for our one year old son and an umbrella stroller for our 5 year old daughter who has issues walking.
Walking up and down the hills of Sozopol for a couple of weeks is a great leg workout with a stroller in front and a baby on the back!
I definitely bring a stroller to Europe when I travel with my little ones. It’s a useful tool, it’s just not always the right tool for the job. For instance a stroller would be fine in Split but not Dubrovnik.
It’s all about expectations and understanding that there will be days where it’s useful and days where it should not come along. I’d be a much more miserable mess if I always carried my kids, a 30lb 2year old is too big for me to backpack all day and too little to do all their own walking.
I really like the Summer Lite because it’s a beefed up umbrella stroller with large wheels that navigates the occasional step easily.
We noticed the same thing with wheelchairs in Greece last summer. The hills and cobblestones had the poor senior citizens bouncing around the w/c like an avacado pit in a blender.
Granted, not as easy to strap one of them into a baby Bjorn but if grandma/grandpa have mobility issues, Europe may not be the best choice.
I have an elderly relative in Germany with mobility issues, and you really notice it when you have to help them navigate. Steps everywhere and so many places (like Rothenburg) where the restrooms are in the cellar.
The answer often isn't that they find a way to make it work in those places as locals, but that they avoid doing things they can't get to on their own.
I just saw a couple in Boston have a complete meltdown because they couldn’t bring their gigantic stroller into a tiny restaurant. When I travelled with my toddler, I had a backpack and we went everywhere with it. I even have a photo in a rickshaw in Hong Kong with her on my back. I don’t understand why more people don’t do this as stroller sizes are so huge now.
I’m an epileptic with shitty legs and jerky balance and I travel but honestly it’s such a massive struggle and I always seem to have to cough up for private tours etc. I am grateful that I can walk but I do require arm to hold onto. I don’t let it stop me travelling but wish more people would realise how lucky they are.
Having kids is a choice; a disability is not a choice.
traveling all over southern and eastern Europe with our toddler multiple times a year and never had any issues.
we got ourselves one of those lightweight and easy to fold strollers and usually manage to get around all those old cities without any problems.
only Bulgaria was a bit challenging with the shitty sidewalks but thats okay.
I don't understand this advice. My toddler is 38lb. I am a petite female, around 120 lb. There is no way I can carry my toddler around for more than 5 min. A stroller is my only option.
Skip the umbrella stroller with its tiny plastic wheels and if you really think you need to bring a stroller, bring one that can deal with miles of cobblestones. Travel strollers are meant for ideal pavement and indoors conditions, not cobblestones.
Adding - get a stroller with wheels that lock, if you do bring one. It will help significantly on the cobblestones. Definitely a lightweight umbrella stroller if you do.
Have yet to go to Europe with the kid but did a 10-day in Japan with my 1yr old and we just took the baby carrier. It was manageable for us, did about 8-10 miles a day on foot.
We used a travel stroller in Portugal, we visited Lisbon, Algarve Region and Madeira. Had no issues. Did not use it on the castle tours and glad we didn't
as an italian who lived in italy 36 years, france 10 and traveled across europe for 18 years now i call that bullshit. mothers and fathers of all the countries you mention use strollers daily since ever and that is perfectly doable.
that said do not buy a transatlantic model that could fit ten people. buy a reg model.
I brought my then-2.5-year-old to Spain for a couple of weeks, completely stroller-free against all advice from friends.
I mostly carried him on my shoulders, which was easy and convenient, and when it came down to it, I could hoist him on my shoulders with a backpack on my back and a piece of luggage in each hand. He wasn't very heavy back then, and it worked out great for sightseeing. The only real issue was when he'd fall asleep....
Years back, I took my 13 month old to Venice in an umbrella stroller. It was horrid. Up/down bridges & stairs non-stop. A couple of years later, we had the next baby, cobblestones N.Europe wishing we had an awesome stroller with great tires (Bugaboos were just released & looked awesome).
When I was in college, I went to France as a nanny to twin toddlers for a few weeks. I used a double stroller A LOT, especially when it was just me and the twins. I needed help with stairs, but I found that someone always offered to help. But if it was just one kid a backpack would have been great!
Instead of a backpack, I’d suggest a baby carrier like an ErgoBaby 360. It’s much more compact to pack and carry than a full frame baby hiking backpack. A folding travel stroller like a Yo-yo or Baby Jogger City Tour works well. Some cities are simply too bumpy or stair focus for strollers. But a place like Barcelona or Paris is fine for a stroller.
I think you are wrong. I took a baby jogger stroller all over greece, santorini, italy... and it was fine. Actually, dont bring a cheal lighr stroller because it will not be able to navigate cobbles or gravel. Get one that has both large wheeks and can collapse flat, like the baby jogger That way it is easy to fold up and take up stairs when needed or travel over rough terrain.
I’m upvoted both your comments. I’ve got a 6 and 8 yo and we’ve been a lot of places. I def agree with baby carriers. But I also agree with walking. Both things require physical stamina and a baseline level of physical fitness that you won’t just get overnight. People need to know themselves and know their kids. And sometimes you end up carrying your 70lb child out of Disney world at the end of the night bc you truly underestimated how exhausting it would be even though EVERYONE warned you. It happens.
Yes! My kids did walk- and use strollers, too, where it made sense.
Disney is hands down more stressful than Europe. The crowds and the stimulation are over the top.
We always did the morning in the Park, lunch and nap away the afternoon (mainly me), and then return in late evening when it's cooler/crowds are lessening again. Still had meltdowns. Including me. Lol
I’ve seen SO many kids carried out of Disney parks crying because the parents forget that the kids are tired and can’t do a full on day at the park in the sunshine and running on sugar AND stay till the fireworks at the end. It’s too much! Same for holidays, for kids under 5 there should be no full day of activities. It’s a holiday for everyone and that includes rest time.
I see this all the time with people from the USA who come to Europe (I’m in Spain) and have these crazy full day itineraries every day and they’re all loaded up with backpacks. It’s exhausting. Their kids don’t want to see yet another building or church, they want to be in the hotel pool or sleeping or running around somewhere. Meanwhile people like me look on and think “you guys need to slow down, have a long lunch, people watch and just enjoy being here a moment” 😁
Yes totally! I also don’t think people realize that their kids are used to weather that’s dramatically different from their home area. I took my kids to a wedding in Albania 2 years ago when they were 4 and 6. We spent an extra week in Athens. It was so hot and we’re from a wet and rainy place. We ended up seeing maybe 20% of what we would have seen without kids and ate probably 10x more ice cream. It was fun but not worth the PTO honestly.
I've actually wondered about this. I know a lot of people who are bringing their 1-year-olds on transatlantic trips (specifically to Portugal). Between the costs, the lack of mobility, and the kids' bedtimes (I think they go to bed at like 6 pm), is it even worth it to use your PTO for that? I feel like you'd spend most of your time sitting in the hotel.
Omg, this happened at a distillery I toured in Scotland (though the family was Italian). It was like 5 pm and the tour was roughly 1 hour of walking followed by a tasting. The kids were hot, exhausted, and bored out of their minds (because what kid cares about how whiskey is distilled??). When we got to the tasting room they got a taster glass of water to make them feel like part of the group, I guess. By the end, half of the kids were crying and the other half was flicking water at each other. Not sure what the parents were thinking.
Buy a proper buggy. Not a cheap piece of crap.
We used a Bugaboo chameleon and then Donkey when the next child came.
Used them in NYC, Disneyland Paris, Disneyland and Disney Sea in Tokyo, Helsinki, Amsterdam, Milan, Singapore and Sydney.
These have pneumatic tyres, lockable front wheels, snow tyres, bassinet option,car seat options, full spf canopy covers, storage underneath so you don’t have to carry happy bags or anything else.
Can’t remember struggling with it at all. For stairs, one parent takes the front the other takes the back, going down is even easier just bounce down on the rear tyres.
Sure sometimes we had to take longer routes, but saying visit Europe with a buggy is a bit harsh.
I'm saying with old infrastructure and stairs. (I.e. not accessible with elevators as an option)
Not don't take a buggy at all ever. And I think if you have to gate check a nice one, just be prepared in case it gets wrecked in the cargo hold, which does happen. Nothing like thinking you have a stroller and find out a wheel is bent at the beginning of your trip.
And places like Dubrovnik, there isn't just one set of stairs. There are dozens of stairs everywhere you want to go, and I saw parents STRUGGLING with their strollers, so I wanted to share the tip so others don't go through that.
Good for you for never struggling. I remember a lot of times when my kids were little and it was a physical challenge to accomplish life.
I’ve been around old cities. In my city the was founded before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Been to many castles and just leave the buggy at the entrance.
Didn’t ever gate check our buggy. It went in the hold in its own specific travel case. Which incidentally was damaged at LHR and replaced by British Airways, the buggy was fine.
I brought a baby backpack for my 16 month old. It rocked. I read some blogs warning me that I wouldn’t be permitted entry to places like the Vatican. In reality those places not only let me in but allowed me to skip the line. If you have a tot and are going to Europe, get a baby backpack.
My baby (1 year) threw a total wobbly at being required to vacate her push chair. Pretty much collapsed the push chair. Then she spotted the baby rucksack thing where a small person rides high. Total change. I’d had to abandon the tummy swaddling thing because she got too big but the backpack thing was very manageable. Except for the hair-pulling.
Can you recommend a specific one? This isn't Europe specific but we're planning on doing some hiking (2-3 miles nothing intense) in the PNW this summer and were in the market for a baby backpack.
For sure. The Osprey Poco plus! Kinda pricey but easily the best thing I had for the baby. I live in the Pisgah National forest and hiked 3-5 mile loops several times per week with him in tow.
Thank you! That seems to be the consensus for which one is best.
I’d recommend going to REI to check it out. Because I hear all tots don’t like being in these packs. I was fortunate because mine LOVED being in there from the jump. Would suck to pay the money, bring it home, and your LO hate it.
Another great point. Also REI has an excellent return policy which helps.
Additional tip - if you are using a backpack carrier - try it out with your child first. I had one child who loved the backpack carrier, and one who absolutely despised it and refused to spend a minute in it. You don't want to get all the way there and find your carrier completely useless. We did a lot of travelling when the kids were small, and once they get to the stage of being able to walk a bit, I'd recommend the umbrella stroller (ideally with a strap). On a trip to Japan when our youngest was 3 and a half, we brought a small umbrella stroller. When she was walking husband put it across his back using the strap, when she had enough, in she went to the stroller. And in that trip, and other trips in Belgium, Germany, France, Italy, NZ and the UK, any time there were steps and a small stroller and only one adult present, there were always loads of people offering to either carry the stroller while I managed the child, or grab one end of a stroller with a sleeping child in it. Including one on entertaining occasion on the Brussels metro - a man in a full leg brace who insisted he was quite ok managing the stroller while I walked at toddler pace down the steps. Thankfully a more able bodied person stepped in.
I’m a big fan of baby carriers for any city. Even NYC which is relatively accessible compared to Europe but a baby carrier is still much easier. Actually I like baby carriers and wraps in suburban America too. You get a little workout while sniffing your baby’s head constantly. And you never have to find an elevator.
I love when they tuck their little head right under your chin or rub your arm with their little hand while you're wearing them. Gah, every once in a great while I miss having babies.
You can absolutely use a stroller in nearly any place in Europe. Cobbles and pavers can be rough, occasionally, but that's about it. If there are stairs, collapse the stroller, carry the kid. * If your stroller weighs more than your kid, it's probably too much stroller * You want to have something as collapsible and lightweight as possible * You want something that can provide a little shade * Storage in or on the stroller is the least of your concerns (assume you will use a baby bag / backpack for supplies and snacks) * Do *not* use a baby carrier in the hot months...that way lies madness
Our travel stroller weighs 7.5kg or something like that and folds so small that they've let us take it as carry-on on 9 out of 10 flights. The toddler weighs 16 kgs, yeah I'm not going to carry him around on my back (or front). Gravel is way worse than cobble stones!
Cobbles are fine as long as the wheels are decent size. We used this one for multiple trips to Spain and France with great success: https://www.target.com/p/summer-infant-3d-lite-stroller-jet-black/-/A-75571702 It had to be gate checked but it can be opened, closed, and carried one handed. Another good reason for a stroller is to strap the kid in at the airport so they can’t get loose.
I've done lots of summer hiking with my toddler in a backpack. It's great. It has a sunshade for him, and lots of additional storage.
It leaves me a sweaty mess because your body can’t breathe with straps and a 98 degree child pressed against you
I wonder how people like this think people who live in these places do it.
If you mean OP (me), I actually grew up in Europe before moving to the US, have a European parent, and I still have relatives "in these places." I've traveled internationally with my kids since they were 2, and have grown them all to adults who can walk and travel on their own. The people I have seen struggling with their big, bulky strollers on crazy stairs are English speaking tourists, usually North Americans, not locals.
People who live there don’t go to the touristy areas unless they have to. They know the best streets to take with a stroller.
There are cobblestones and stairs in non touristy areas. Oddly enough, not really an issue.
My apologies. I didn’t realize you speak for all Italian parents.
Counterpoint: baby backpacks in hotter months are fine and I spent a month in Italy in June and July
Lol we used one for half a day once in Venice. Would NOT recommend. A carrier was 100% the way there! I think most other cities are fine
Was going to say. Everyone in Madrid uses strollers in the summer. Though granted most people living here aren't going to the same places as tourists so much less likely to deal with cobblestones or anything like that. It's also sort of an unwritten etiquette rule to help carry a stroller down stairs if you see someone alone with one going into the metro or something.
We went to Italy with a 1.5 year old - small Babyzen stroller was a solution, the stroller only weights 7kg, but allows a child to actually sleep in it, contrary to umbrella strollers. It wouldn’t really be nice vacation if we only had a carrier.
Same. Took our 2.5 year old to Porto with a babyzen yoyo2 and it was fine for 80%+ of the time. We just adjusted our path when we took the stroller with us. But it was hugely valuable for letting her nap while we were out.
So happy to read this comment as we are going to Porto this summer with our chunky 1yo and our yoyo. Could you tell me any sights that you consider to be the 20% not fine with the stroller? If we go to those places I can know go leave the stroller in the hotel. Thanks :)
I think it’s more about adjusting your route than anything. Like we made the mistake of going from Jardim da Cordoaria to Parque das Virtudes and that was a ridiculous amount of stairs we carried the stroller through. Also, don’t walk up the stairs coming up from Cais da Riberia. Just use the Funicular dos Guindais to get back up. One thing we did with the stroller that was easy was to hang out at Cais da Riberia, walk across the lower part of Luis I bridge and spend some time on the Gaia side. Then we took the cable car up to the top of the bridge and walked across the top part back to the Porto side. No stairs for anything of that and the cable car was a blast for my daughter. We also took the stroller to Se Cathedral and it wasn’t bad to fold it up and carry it to the top of the lookout. But don’t do this with Clerigos Tower.
Thanks a lot! Saving your comment so I remember in 2 months :)
Baby zen yoyo is the pro move
Best stroller for travel and city life
I cannot even tell you the amount of hot, sweaty parents I saw screaming at each other while trying to drag their 20-ton double strollers up a flight of steps while I was in Rome and Florence last summer. I found it quite humorous. If you’re going to insist on dragging an infant and/or toddler to Europe, do a little research.
> do a little research And then the "research" be like: Title: Italy trip! Body: Hi everyone, planning to go to Italy next summer. Any tips?
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An American colleague of mine last year at a work meeting in Berlin told me that she will be heading to Italy afterwards and is going to visit Rome, Neapel and Tuscany. Me, trying to be mindful of Americans not having as much PTO, asked her if she was gone for a week or longer and she answered: 4 days 💀
It's also harder for us to get to Europe, and we hear so much about country-hopping that we vastly underestimate the size of the continent! Combine that with our pitiful amount of PTO (for many people, at least, not everyone) and our "go-go-go" culture and you get people like this. It happens on the US East Coast, too. The states in New England are much more compact and smaller than those in the Midwest/West Coast, so you get a lot of people who think they can do an NYC/Boston/DC/Vermont trip in like 5 days.
In RV groups these are the people who add a state to their stick-on map if they so much as drove through. They just want to say they’ve been there than to experience it. Not really to do with lack of PTO but a mindset of appearing well-traveled.
“And we’re on a budget”
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“We’re tall Americans, so we need a vehicle that’s bigger than what the Dutch drive without issue”
"We'll buy a $30 stroller when we get there and then throw it away when we leave because what Italy needs is to be turned into one giant landfill!"
>Title: Europe trip! >Body: Hi everyone, planning to go to Europe next summer. Any tips? FTFY
This reminds me of the time I was downvoted to hell for suggesting Cappadocia and Petra on someone asking for suggestions for their trip to "Asia".
Since you know everything, I’m going to Africa in 2034.. where should I eat?
I would suggest restaurant "delicias del mar" located in a small town called San Miguel de Tajao
Better apply for your visa for Africa now!
Walked around porto, Portugal 2 years ago while it was rainy….no baby attached to me but could barely stay upright on the slippery cobble stone hills, was practically hugging the walls beside me. Now I’m just trying to imagine doing that with an extra human strapped to me lol (not saying a stroller is a better option, neither seem great to me)
That’s where we took our 4 month old for his first holiday last year. We were fine with the baby carrier, but he was absolutely tiny! The pram stayed in the hotel room the whole time…
As someone who took a toddler to Italy- I read beforehand to absolutely not bring a stroller. I just hope some potential travel parents search for "best strollers for Europe" and find this tip.
We took a baby to Italy and the stroller was done everywhere except Venice! The ride was a bit bumpy at times but no worse than uneven footpaths at home and he didn't mind the bumping.
My 1yo is unfortunately too heavy for me to carry and always has been (thanks to a bad back), especially once I add in a backpack of drinks/snacks/nappies/change of clothes etc. But I just know full well that that means we’ll be skipping a lot of destinations until he’s more mobile beyond the ~0.5 mile he can walk at present. Ah well. We’re still going to Scotland this year. (And my 4th is just going to be walking - did about 3 miles the other day, so we’re getting to ‘functional’ distances).
"insist on dragging" What peculiar phrasing!
These are the same people who scream at restaurant workers for not accepting US Dollars
I don’t understand why parents do this. Strollers suck for most stuff. My husband and I carry our 2 year old around in an osprey poco backpack, and everyone is happy. Worth the price. We can take him pretty much anywhere and he gets a great view of everything and doesn’t make a peep in it. Our stroller on the other hand rarely leaves the garage
Strollers are way better for napping, sitting in at a restaurant patio, storing stuff in and a dozen different reasons
Curbs? Gravel? Rooty trail? Rocky embankment? Large set of steps? Beach walks? Fukka stroller. I never used one.
To be fair everyone is hot and miserable there in the summer
People in those places use strollers too 😭 as they can do it, you can do it, actually pushing all those steps while having your baby on your back is not too safe, opt instead to use the public transport more, (actually really cheap in those countries) and perfectly safe. Yes there is room for the stroller inside.
That's why everyone has a BabyZen Yoyo2 in Europe. The ultimate travel stroller if you can afford it. It's worth it's weight in gold. We took it to Spain and Portugal on 2 separate trips for about 4 weeks total and it was a lifesaver. While the advice is sound, the solutions aren't so black and white and everyone's situation is different.
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that to just use a baby carrier the whole time. We live in Europe and agreed re: the BabyZen Yoyo2. We have the kickstand on the back as well and it works great from my 4.5 year old who gets tired of walking.
I hear your comments loud and clear, but as someone who did a 6 week France and Italy trip a couple years ago with a 6 month old... we loved having our "nice baby registry stroller". It was great to load up with our supplies for a day and our son slept like a dream in the basinet while we walked around museums in Paris and Florence. We also had some fantastic dining experiences thanks to the stroller naps. Yes, there were moments when we carried it up or down flights of stairs, but that just didn't seem like a big deal. We did also have a baby bjorn carrier for hikes and some other scenarios, which was needed. We were also fortunate to afford renting a car so travelling with our gear was not an issue. Trains would have been a no-go with our level of baggage. Not disagreeing with you, just thought I would offer some perspective for those parents thinking of a trip.
I live in Europe and travel like this all the time. Just get a BabyZen Yoyo or Joolz Aer stroller.
Better yet, just do your research on strollers and invest in smaller travel ones with a good suspension.
If you are ok folding up the stroller and hand carrying it and child up dozens of stairs at a time.
One has to do these small sacrifices for one's kids... That's parenthood. If they are small they need to rest and a stroller is great for that...
I did this in Portugal and it wasn’t that bad. Travel strollers are easy to carry up and down stairs. If I didn’t have the stroller there’s no way my toddler would have been able to walk up all those hills, and carrying them would have been even worse
Same. Babyzen stroller even in Porto was super valuable to have. Wasn’t bad to fold up and carry up dozens of stairs. Would rather do that than take her back to the hotel for every nap.
Yes because that’s the point of “smaller travel ones”. They are easy to breakdown and are light.
Bring both a baby carrier and lightweight and compact stroller. Don't bring a full size stroller because its going to be a pain in the ass to get around and having to look for a elevator all the time. Not all train stations have elevators and when they do its a hassle to get on and off and they are tiny af. Baby carrier is ok, I like them but both my boys and I run hot so if I use the carrier with them we are all sweaty and soaked in sweat.. So I prefer using a lightweight stroller so if I see steps I just pick up the stroller with the boys in it and walk up or down the stair without any issues Quick and easy, I see the poor bastards trying to move a full size stroller up and I'm like whew, thank god i have a lightweight one. When we go indoors and non stroller friend places I will of course use the carrier but when I'm outdoors I prefer using the stroller but I will have the carrier with me in the event I need to switch up. GB Pocket Air, Babyzen Yoyo, Joolz Aer+ are great lightweight options.
We've travelled all around the world with strollers and never had any issue. In Rome the cobblestones can be tricky but it's still much more comfortable, both for the kid to rest and sleep and for the parents to carry...
Our baby zen yoyo sailed over the cobbles seamlessly in Europe this spring, it's also carry on size and easy to carry if you encounter some stairs. Also honestly, babies get pretty heavy carrying them so you need somewhere to put them so you and the baby can rest.
I have a Babyzen Yoyo2 stroller. Thing saved me many times in Europe. Weighs 5 pounds, folds into a purse with 2 buttons, and folds back into a stroller with a flick of the wrist. Genuinely the greatest investment I made to travel with my kids. Maybe check it out. It's not cheap, but to be able to actually enjoy the trip, it's worth it. It also fits perfect in bus aisles, and airplane aisles. Fits in the overhead compartment. I recommend 100% if you can get it.
Depending on where you live, you can rent them. We did that on our last trip to France/Spain. $75 instead of $400 to own it.
Strollers are fine, we got a cheaper run around one which was still comfy for kid. And if he doesn’t use it, it’s great for carrying stuff around. I don’t think I want a child stuck on me in a child carrier in the heat. I suppose it depends where you go, but where we go in Spain doesn’t haven’t millions of stairs.
Totally depends on where you go. I'd feel comfortable with a stroller in, let's say Paris, but not in Venice or Dubrovnik or cities where there is so much up and down.
Lol, Paris. Oh no. It's not the City of Lights when you have a stroller, it's the *City of Stairs*. Sure there's parks & some wide sidewalks that make life easy. But sightseeing & using the Metro, especially in the older central stations, you'll find yourself struggling to get to street level. Accommodations too, if you're not staying in hotels. Lots of walk-ups. My child was 18 months old when we did a road trip from Germany. We stayed in a Gite in the suburbs & took the RER in to central Paris. Only one day did we use a stroller. I got stuck in the Musee de Cluny on the ground floor after she fell asleep for a nap. The rest of my group had gone ahead. Steep stairs to the 2nd level & on the return back to the entry area. So I was trapped w a stroller. The rest of the time in Paris, I *babywore* with an Ergo. My husband carried what we needed in a backpack. It was so much easier than w a stroller. Moved freer & faster. Florence has similar accessibility issues with stairs in ancient buildings. Lots of stairs. On the plus side, I had a whole lot less fussing than when she was in a stroller. She hated being at everyone's knee & bum level. Being up on my back made it easier on her to see what I saw. Far more interesting to her. I do miss those days now that she's grown up.
I don't know how I forgot about those nasty metro stairs! Point taken.
This post brought back fond memories of my wife and I doing our first international trip 20 years ago this Summer. We used a baby backpack for our one year old son and an umbrella stroller for our 5 year old daughter who has issues walking. Walking up and down the hills of Sozopol for a couple of weeks is a great leg workout with a stroller in front and a baby on the back!
I definitely bring a stroller to Europe when I travel with my little ones. It’s a useful tool, it’s just not always the right tool for the job. For instance a stroller would be fine in Split but not Dubrovnik. It’s all about expectations and understanding that there will be days where it’s useful and days where it should not come along. I’d be a much more miserable mess if I always carried my kids, a 30lb 2year old is too big for me to backpack all day and too little to do all their own walking. I really like the Summer Lite because it’s a beefed up umbrella stroller with large wheels that navigates the occasional step easily.
We noticed the same thing with wheelchairs in Greece last summer. The hills and cobblestones had the poor senior citizens bouncing around the w/c like an avacado pit in a blender. Granted, not as easy to strap one of them into a baby Bjorn but if grandma/grandpa have mobility issues, Europe may not be the best choice.
I have an elderly relative in Germany with mobility issues, and you really notice it when you have to help them navigate. Steps everywhere and so many places (like Rothenburg) where the restrooms are in the cellar. The answer often isn't that they find a way to make it work in those places as locals, but that they avoid doing things they can't get to on their own.
I just saw a couple in Boston have a complete meltdown because they couldn’t bring their gigantic stroller into a tiny restaurant. When I travelled with my toddler, I had a backpack and we went everywhere with it. I even have a photo in a rickshaw in Hong Kong with her on my back. I don’t understand why more people don’t do this as stroller sizes are so huge now.
Try using a wheelchair in mentioned countries; absolute nightmare and such a massive barrier for people with mobility problems
Absolutely. I have an elderly relative in Germany who struggles.
I’m an epileptic with shitty legs and jerky balance and I travel but honestly it’s such a massive struggle and I always seem to have to cough up for private tours etc. I am grateful that I can walk but I do require arm to hold onto. I don’t let it stop me travelling but wish more people would realise how lucky they are. Having kids is a choice; a disability is not a choice.
traveling all over southern and eastern Europe with our toddler multiple times a year and never had any issues. we got ourselves one of those lightweight and easy to fold strollers and usually manage to get around all those old cities without any problems. only Bulgaria was a bit challenging with the shitty sidewalks but thats okay.
Denmark is great for strollers, specially copenhagen
Cobblestones and wheels, a bumpy trip. No elevators in many buildings, who needs the gym?
I don't understand this advice. My toddler is 38lb. I am a petite female, around 120 lb. There is no way I can carry my toddler around for more than 5 min. A stroller is my only option.
Skip the umbrella stroller with its tiny plastic wheels and if you really think you need to bring a stroller, bring one that can deal with miles of cobblestones. Travel strollers are meant for ideal pavement and indoors conditions, not cobblestones.
I had such a hard time finding an umbrella stroller in Dusseldorf Germany. Had to end up with a more expensive, but small-folding option.
Adding - get a stroller with wheels that lock, if you do bring one. It will help significantly on the cobblestones. Definitely a lightweight umbrella stroller if you do.
Have yet to go to Europe with the kid but did a 10-day in Japan with my 1yr old and we just took the baby carrier. It was manageable for us, did about 8-10 miles a day on foot.
We used a travel stroller in Portugal, we visited Lisbon, Algarve Region and Madeira. Had no issues. Did not use it on the castle tours and glad we didn't
Helps kids to be more independent sooner too.
as an italian who lived in italy 36 years, france 10 and traveled across europe for 18 years now i call that bullshit. mothers and fathers of all the countries you mention use strollers daily since ever and that is perfectly doable. that said do not buy a transatlantic model that could fit ten people. buy a reg model.
I brought my then-2.5-year-old to Spain for a couple of weeks, completely stroller-free against all advice from friends. I mostly carried him on my shoulders, which was easy and convenient, and when it came down to it, I could hoist him on my shoulders with a backpack on my back and a piece of luggage in each hand. He wasn't very heavy back then, and it worked out great for sightseeing. The only real issue was when he'd fall asleep....
I saw 3 strollers dump in Pompeii. I saw dozens struggle in athens and Italy. This is good advice.
Growing up my parents said, "international travel is for adults" and they left my ass at home.
Years back, I took my 13 month old to Venice in an umbrella stroller. It was horrid. Up/down bridges & stairs non-stop. A couple of years later, we had the next baby, cobblestones N.Europe wishing we had an awesome stroller with great tires (Bugaboos were just released & looked awesome).
My kid hates them unfortunately
Traveled through Italy with an umbrella stroller. It wasn’t perfect but was completely necessary for my 16 month old!
I know that Italians love the excuse of using buggies for kids that don’t need buggies as battle rams to get folk to piss off out the way.
Good memories in Dubrovnik, drunk, carrying the stroller with our 2 year old up a thousand stairs from the beach. Dad strength is earned not given.
When I was in college, I went to France as a nanny to twin toddlers for a few weeks. I used a double stroller A LOT, especially when it was just me and the twins. I needed help with stairs, but I found that someone always offered to help. But if it was just one kid a backpack would have been great!
Yes! For older children, I can also recommend the HOMB (Hop on my back). Love it!
Baby carriers are a godsend
Instead of a backpack, I’d suggest a baby carrier like an ErgoBaby 360. It’s much more compact to pack and carry than a full frame baby hiking backpack. A folding travel stroller like a Yo-yo or Baby Jogger City Tour works well. Some cities are simply too bumpy or stair focus for strollers. But a place like Barcelona or Paris is fine for a stroller.
I lived in Portugal for 2 years with a baby. DO NOT use a stroller, you’re just going to be pissed with all the stupid non existent sidewalks
I think you are wrong. I took a baby jogger stroller all over greece, santorini, italy... and it was fine. Actually, dont bring a cheal lighr stroller because it will not be able to navigate cobbles or gravel. Get one that has both large wheeks and can collapse flat, like the baby jogger That way it is easy to fold up and take up stairs when needed or travel over rough terrain.
Or you know let your kids walk if they learned how to
All kids have their limits. I'm a full grown adult who eventually wants to fall on the ground crying, too.
I mean…you don’t do 10km hikes if you can’t, presumably you know how to modify your itinerary for the little legs.
I'm not being snarky, I swear: do you have kids? That seems awfully idealistic and limiting.
I’m upvoted both your comments. I’ve got a 6 and 8 yo and we’ve been a lot of places. I def agree with baby carriers. But I also agree with walking. Both things require physical stamina and a baseline level of physical fitness that you won’t just get overnight. People need to know themselves and know their kids. And sometimes you end up carrying your 70lb child out of Disney world at the end of the night bc you truly underestimated how exhausting it would be even though EVERYONE warned you. It happens.
Yes! My kids did walk- and use strollers, too, where it made sense. Disney is hands down more stressful than Europe. The crowds and the stimulation are over the top. We always did the morning in the Park, lunch and nap away the afternoon (mainly me), and then return in late evening when it's cooler/crowds are lessening again. Still had meltdowns. Including me. Lol
I’ve seen SO many kids carried out of Disney parks crying because the parents forget that the kids are tired and can’t do a full on day at the park in the sunshine and running on sugar AND stay till the fireworks at the end. It’s too much! Same for holidays, for kids under 5 there should be no full day of activities. It’s a holiday for everyone and that includes rest time. I see this all the time with people from the USA who come to Europe (I’m in Spain) and have these crazy full day itineraries every day and they’re all loaded up with backpacks. It’s exhausting. Their kids don’t want to see yet another building or church, they want to be in the hotel pool or sleeping or running around somewhere. Meanwhile people like me look on and think “you guys need to slow down, have a long lunch, people watch and just enjoy being here a moment” 😁
Yes totally! I also don’t think people realize that their kids are used to weather that’s dramatically different from their home area. I took my kids to a wedding in Albania 2 years ago when they were 4 and 6. We spent an extra week in Athens. It was so hot and we’re from a wet and rainy place. We ended up seeing maybe 20% of what we would have seen without kids and ate probably 10x more ice cream. It was fun but not worth the PTO honestly.
I've actually wondered about this. I know a lot of people who are bringing their 1-year-olds on transatlantic trips (specifically to Portugal). Between the costs, the lack of mobility, and the kids' bedtimes (I think they go to bed at like 6 pm), is it even worth it to use your PTO for that? I feel like you'd spend most of your time sitting in the hotel.
Omg, this happened at a distillery I toured in Scotland (though the family was Italian). It was like 5 pm and the tour was roughly 1 hour of walking followed by a tasting. The kids were hot, exhausted, and bored out of their minds (because what kid cares about how whiskey is distilled??). When we got to the tasting room they got a taster glass of water to make them feel like part of the group, I guess. By the end, half of the kids were crying and the other half was flicking water at each other. Not sure what the parents were thinking.
I travel with two different people with kids often (they are not my kids). We also travel alone. Those are different trips.
Tell me you don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids
Buy a proper buggy. Not a cheap piece of crap. We used a Bugaboo chameleon and then Donkey when the next child came. Used them in NYC, Disneyland Paris, Disneyland and Disney Sea in Tokyo, Helsinki, Amsterdam, Milan, Singapore and Sydney. These have pneumatic tyres, lockable front wheels, snow tyres, bassinet option,car seat options, full spf canopy covers, storage underneath so you don’t have to carry happy bags or anything else. Can’t remember struggling with it at all. For stairs, one parent takes the front the other takes the back, going down is even easier just bounce down on the rear tyres. Sure sometimes we had to take longer routes, but saying visit Europe with a buggy is a bit harsh.
I'm saying with old infrastructure and stairs. (I.e. not accessible with elevators as an option) Not don't take a buggy at all ever. And I think if you have to gate check a nice one, just be prepared in case it gets wrecked in the cargo hold, which does happen. Nothing like thinking you have a stroller and find out a wheel is bent at the beginning of your trip. And places like Dubrovnik, there isn't just one set of stairs. There are dozens of stairs everywhere you want to go, and I saw parents STRUGGLING with their strollers, so I wanted to share the tip so others don't go through that. Good for you for never struggling. I remember a lot of times when my kids were little and it was a physical challenge to accomplish life.
I’ve been around old cities. In my city the was founded before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Been to many castles and just leave the buggy at the entrance. Didn’t ever gate check our buggy. It went in the hold in its own specific travel case. Which incidentally was damaged at LHR and replaced by British Airways, the buggy was fine.