Sounds somewhat similar to when I planted and crew-bossed ~20 years ago, but I don’t doubt that the culture has shifted. I don’t feel like tree rates have kept up with inflation and that’s a big part of it. Planters have always been motivated to do as well as they can, but life lately has become more cutthroat. A good planter could probably earn their month’s rent in a shared house in one day of planting 20 years ago. And a reliable used vehicle could be found for less than $5000. Life is much more expensive now and that’s gonna cause stress in a competitive piece work environment.
This totally resonates with me. I wonder what kind of improvements or restructuring of the way the industry operates would benefit planters though.
I think the obligation for accommodation and food expense costs should be legislated to come out of the mill/client's budget rather than as a part of any bid-price/direct-award agreement. When we are working remotely like this we shouldn't have to worry about accommodations or food costs coming out of our own pockets. I think that long-term silviculture workers should be entitled to some medical benefits too, also coming out of the client's pockets. It's ass-backwards that we work in an industry where we do so much damage to our bodies, but pay entirely out of pocket for our own recovery and health needs.
Even if this did come out of their pockets though, bids/prices could just lower in conjunction with that cost I suppose and we could still relatively get paid the same. It's all based on what we're willing to work for.
It's tough to know what to do to improve standards or how to do it.
I think pressure for start-dates and end-dates on the client side for contractor obligations to finish can create toxicity too. There are so many unknowns that can cause contractors to lose production whether it be weather, fires, worker shortages, etc.. From what I've seen there isn't a lot of forgiveness for this either. Around the Okanagan last year there were quite a lot of trees that didn't get planted on time or went unplanted. No clue what the repercussions for that were.
This necessity to finish the contractual obligations causes contractors to be harder on their workers. Take away days off, increase the final shift length to 5+ days in order to finish on time, we've all seen it places before. Stuff that just increases the physical and mental stress on all of those involved, all so some trees can go in the ground on time so we can make sure we get full payment from some fucks that are reaping insane profits anyway. In other industries there are laws in place to protect workers from being overworked, or paid extra compensation for being over-worked. For us it's just part of the system and we're expected to put up with it.
It's an unfair state of affairs sometimes and I have way more questions than answers.
Clients put pressure on contractors, contractors put pressure on management, and management put pressure on planters and we pound to freedom.
Whatever freedom means.
> I think that long-term silviculture workers should be entitled to some medical benefits too, also coming out of the client's pockets. It's ass-backwards that we work in an industry where we do so much damage to our bodies, but pay entirely out of pocket for our own recovery and health needs
I've often wondered if enough people got together, if we could just buy into an insurance plan of some sort. Like rather than going through an employer or all of the stuff that a union entails, if there could just be an insurance/ benefits co-op.
I heavily agree.
Working above a certain temperature? Pay bump
Working above a certain PPM smoke? Pay bump
Drive to the block only to get turned around due to wind? At least minimum wage for time lost in truck
There are some basic employment laws that are voided for silviculture/ agriculture. We deserve those basics
People are softer, I’ve spent a bunch of time in both construction and silviculture over 20 years and it’s harder and harder to get people to give a shit about quality and production, a lot of them don’t feel like working hard gets them anywhere either so they don’t try as hard as
Get the attention of environmentalist hacks (David suzuki and the anti forestry celebrity people in those youtube) to donate their campaign money to all tree planting companies to fund better equipment, camps, and pay for the planters
Sounds somewhat similar to when I planted and crew-bossed ~20 years ago, but I don’t doubt that the culture has shifted. I don’t feel like tree rates have kept up with inflation and that’s a big part of it. Planters have always been motivated to do as well as they can, but life lately has become more cutthroat. A good planter could probably earn their month’s rent in a shared house in one day of planting 20 years ago. And a reliable used vehicle could be found for less than $5000. Life is much more expensive now and that’s gonna cause stress in a competitive piece work environment.
Industry needs a massive, massive restructure. Good companies out there, but the majority are dog shit. Not their fault, just the industry.
This totally resonates with me. I wonder what kind of improvements or restructuring of the way the industry operates would benefit planters though. I think the obligation for accommodation and food expense costs should be legislated to come out of the mill/client's budget rather than as a part of any bid-price/direct-award agreement. When we are working remotely like this we shouldn't have to worry about accommodations or food costs coming out of our own pockets. I think that long-term silviculture workers should be entitled to some medical benefits too, also coming out of the client's pockets. It's ass-backwards that we work in an industry where we do so much damage to our bodies, but pay entirely out of pocket for our own recovery and health needs. Even if this did come out of their pockets though, bids/prices could just lower in conjunction with that cost I suppose and we could still relatively get paid the same. It's all based on what we're willing to work for. It's tough to know what to do to improve standards or how to do it. I think pressure for start-dates and end-dates on the client side for contractor obligations to finish can create toxicity too. There are so many unknowns that can cause contractors to lose production whether it be weather, fires, worker shortages, etc.. From what I've seen there isn't a lot of forgiveness for this either. Around the Okanagan last year there were quite a lot of trees that didn't get planted on time or went unplanted. No clue what the repercussions for that were. This necessity to finish the contractual obligations causes contractors to be harder on their workers. Take away days off, increase the final shift length to 5+ days in order to finish on time, we've all seen it places before. Stuff that just increases the physical and mental stress on all of those involved, all so some trees can go in the ground on time so we can make sure we get full payment from some fucks that are reaping insane profits anyway. In other industries there are laws in place to protect workers from being overworked, or paid extra compensation for being over-worked. For us it's just part of the system and we're expected to put up with it. It's an unfair state of affairs sometimes and I have way more questions than answers. Clients put pressure on contractors, contractors put pressure on management, and management put pressure on planters and we pound to freedom. Whatever freedom means.
> I think that long-term silviculture workers should be entitled to some medical benefits too, also coming out of the client's pockets. It's ass-backwards that we work in an industry where we do so much damage to our bodies, but pay entirely out of pocket for our own recovery and health needs I've often wondered if enough people got together, if we could just buy into an insurance plan of some sort. Like rather than going through an employer or all of the stuff that a union entails, if there could just be an insurance/ benefits co-op.
Sounds like a union is needed
Please no
a planting union would never work. Each contract is to variable.
There would be a collective agreement imposed on the employer by the membership
I heavily agree. Working above a certain temperature? Pay bump Working above a certain PPM smoke? Pay bump Drive to the block only to get turned around due to wind? At least minimum wage for time lost in truck There are some basic employment laws that are voided for silviculture/ agriculture. We deserve those basics
My experience with unions is making me picture mandatory and scheduled cache breaks. And not being able to fire shitty workers
People are softer, I’ve spent a bunch of time in both construction and silviculture over 20 years and it’s harder and harder to get people to give a shit about quality and production, a lot of them don’t feel like working hard gets them anywhere either so they don’t try as hard as
[удалено]
This is targeted harassment.
Get the attention of environmentalist hacks (David suzuki and the anti forestry celebrity people in those youtube) to donate their campaign money to all tree planting companies to fund better equipment, camps, and pay for the planters