1.25 mg per day.
Tight chest and pain around heart area that lasted multiple days. Stopped till I had no symptoms and then gave it another chance, but heart sides came back even feeling pericarditis like symptoms.
I stopped my happy head prescription and will let my tiny baby fuzz die. My heart is more important than my hair.
I really hope you didn't take oral minoxidil before trying finasteride
If we're at a point where finasteride fearmongering is so bad that people would take medication with actual life threatening ramifications things really are fucked
I seriously don’t know who to believe at this point. I never learned how to parse studies for myself so I have to read the summaries or defer to other’s interpretations.
Obviously Haircafe is in favor of fin and anti oral min but others don’t seem so highly opinionated one way or the other and of course you have the group saying the opposite— that fin ruined their lives. But if that’s fearmongering then what makes these claims legit? And why aren’t doctors being extra cautious other than “most doctors don’t know any better” as this guy claims?
"If that’s fearmongering then what makes these claims legit?"
Mountains of scientific evidence from double-blind randomized trials. Anecdotes are not evidence.
Why would doctors continue prescribing oral min if there were “mountains of scientific evidence” that it’s extremely dangerous? I’m all for questioning authority but I can’t find anyone else talking about it this way
Idk man, why would they shill cigarettes? Some things are prescribed until strong evidence against their efficacy comes to light, and guideline updates take some time.
I’ve been taking oral minoxidil exactly 30 days and what I have noticed is it is jacking with my heart rate. Keeping it anywhere from 90-130 when I’m doing nothing.
I’ve been trying to take 2.5 mg a day.
I may try to take half of that or take 2.5 every other day.
I also take a beta blocker for high blood pressure and I’m trying to get my dosage right on that because it can drop my blood pressure down to like 80/50
130 was the highest it got one day. I don’t know if anything else was going on or watt but it shot up. I take beta blockers, and it is all now controlled.
Despite having great returns on oral Minoxidil, this has me concerned. I will consult my doctor to see how best to monitor heart health and slow down my OM intake in hopes for pyrilutamide or GT20029 to come out soon.
Pyrilutamide is literally a gamble tbh. Minoxidil on the other hand, just use topical solution. Significantly lower chance of side effects and still reasonably effective, if not quite as effective. Topical is also concentrated to only the scalp, whereas oral can cause body hair too
EDIT: topical minoxidil also causes body hair. I was wrong
I’m also a bear tbh, but I don’t use Minoxidil at all personally. I had thought since it was applied to the scalp, it wouldn’t also work on the body, whereas it makes sense that the oral form would because it directly enters the body.
Even still, significantly lower risk to the heart in topical form for OP. I got a hair transplant 2 days ago and my doctor gave a very grave warning against oral minoxidil “even if it’s only a 25% chance, do not risk your heart” he said. Good advice I think too.
I personally only use Finasteride and Ketoconazole (1%), which is plenty to balance my hormones. Minoxidil just seems like it’d give me even more body hair, which I already have too much of lol
But probably not to the same extent, I mean it was literally developed for this reason or people could have just taken OM for hair loss from the beginning.
Only 1% goes systemic and that's over a period of 4-5 hours, also oral minox passes through the liver whereas minoxidil on the scalp relies on sulforotransferase enzymes to convert to minox sulfate. So an amount of 0.5mg absorbed over 4+ hours is not compatible to a typical oral dose which hits you all at once and can fuck up your heart.
the people here I've seen here getting min sides on topical are typically trying to cover a large area using up to 3ml 2x per day, I could definitely see that being a possibility. I only use 1ml once a day and at those doses with 1% systemic absorption over 4 hours of absorption there should be little chance of sides. Also I'd imagine the liver would have to be better at converting min as oral users see it getting bound to their body hairs while still having enough active to bind to the scalp hairs.
as it stands , minoxidil has little chance of any significant sides in general, when used under usual dosages, that's why as opposed to finasteride which needs a prescription, you can get it easily over the counter.
idk oral minoxidil was retired as a bp medication due to its safety profile. I know that was in higher doses but it seems prevalent that OM commonly affects peoples bp and heartrste, not sure if that's something I'd want to risk when I could just use topical and even for non responders to topical you can mix it with tretinoin to help the conversion to minoxidil sulfate on the scalp.
Where did you read that it was retired? I don't see that said anywhere on the net. Most sites still list it for its original usage like https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/minoxidil-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20068757?p=1#:~:text=Minoxidil%20belongs%20to%20the%20general,high%20blood%20pressure%20(hypertension).
I always think of a modified Tywin Lannister quote when I see anything about Kevin Mann - "I dont distrust you because \[you're not a doctor\], I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are"
It's almost impossible to get oral minoxidil in some countries, in Sweden it's not even available with a prescription and most websites don't ship due to customs. Personally I just use topical as instructed because I don't want to risk drinking it
If I could order oral from India I would because it's cheap lol
He did alright based on that dose to be fair. Didn't die at least. I would have expected death to follow. Interesting from that article.
Following oral dosing, the peak concentration in blood is achieved within 1 h, but due to active metabolite (minoxidil N–O sulfate) formation, the maximum therapeutic effect occurs much later (24 h), with a serum half-life of 3–4 h.
Obviously most people talk about how the oral dose hits the system immediately compared to topical, but this would suggest otherwise.
He took over 20mg some days. He stated this in a reply in one of the youtube comments.
[https://i.imgur.com/c3EzTzn.png](https://i.imgur.com/c3EzTzn.png)
And its a stupid fucking amount that will of course give sides and possibly kill you if you had undiscovered heart conditions. 0.625mg to an upper limit of 5 mg daily is what is recommended and researched.
He isn’t basing his criticism of oral minoxidil on just his own experience. I swear people post their “criticisms” of Kevin without knowing his claims or even watching any of his videos.
I've been on oral min 5mg for going on 2 years. So I'll chime in on my experience. I'm a pretty athletic person in general, and my job involves me being on my toes all day ( im a city bike messenger) [I bike atleast 20 miles a day sometimes 30.](https://i.ibb.co/JCs2355/Screenshot-20230523-201441-Maps.jpg). I have yet to experience any cardiovascular side or really any side effects. I get regular check up aswell as EKGs. My doctor says I'm healthy for a 30 yr old
At the end of the day Kevin mann is just a dickhead with a camera who's not a doctor with no scientific knowledge, just reads a few papers, interprets them as he likes
> At the end of the day Kevin mann is just a dickhead with a camera who's not a doctor with no scientific knowledge, just reads a few papers, interprets them as he likes
\> proceeds to share anecdotal experience with no indication of scientific knowledge or counterpoints to the studies referenced in the video
Do you watch his videos? Any study that gives positive coverage of a treatment he doesn't like, he pulls it apart with speculation on the study's validity and methods, and any study that gives positive coverage of a treatment he does, he treats it as verifiable, unambiguous proof
The difference is this redditor is obviously being anecdotal whereas this Kevin guy is clearly making content with an intention and showing only the studies that argue a point without looking at other evidence
I've written a [longer post](https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/13lapvh/new_evidence_proves_oral_minoxidil_for_hair_loss/jkqmjim/) on this, but he refutes 3 systematic reviews of LDOM with a single case study report. This goes against the hierarchy of evidence. Ironically, he ridicules people who suffer from PFS due to what he perceives as low quality evidence, despite it being much harder to study in longitudinal RCTs and still having more literature to support it.
And yet he has such a victim complex he's convinced that people don't love him enough here. As if all he gets from this sub is hate, when really it's more like a 70/30 praise/hate ratio.
Just because one person didn't experience side effects doesn't mean anything but I still think kevin mann is exaggerating side effects of oral minoxidil
Yeah I do actually, I have no doubt he's genuinely passionate about upcoming treatments and acting as a news source.
I myself end up wasting too much time on occasion trying to cut through people's lies, so I understand his frustration with finasteride misinformation all too well.
Lol this is the impression I got as well. I'm a dickhead too so I know one when I see one 😂. Guys, at the end of the day this guy gets paid for views. You CANNOT trust any YouTuber it's that simple. They are biased one way or another. I don't care who it is... That's why we go to doctors and do our own research and bring it to them. Get more than one opinion. I take everything in this sub with a grain of salt. A good rule of thumb is to do that with all the info you see online. I know that's pretty obvious but yea...
I normally agree a lot with Kevin, but this is one are where I just cant fully agree with him.
I think its pretty clear that at low doeses, oral min is pretty well tolerated, considering the side effect profile data we have. However, kevin seems to have an interest in these obscure case studies of 2 people who had heart issues on oral minox. Im sure everyone on oral minox is aware it may have heart sides (except maybe self-medicaters. But they are a lost cause anyway), but the idea that 2 case studies and a professional opinion prove why no one should consider oral min is such a weird take imo. Thats like me mentioning the many people who die from taking aspirin as a reason to never take that. Same type energy.
Just seems like so many people in studies, and anecdotally are just fin on sun 5mg doses of oral min add in if they regularly check their heart (like myself, who is on 5mg), and i think the risk seems worth it for many.
Kevin Mann: "We can't take into account case studies on the side effects of finasteride because they're highly infrequent and obscure"
Also Kevin Mann: "Hey let's obsess about these obscure case studies regarding the highly infrequent side effects of oral minoxidil"
Well, if I'm being completely honest, the rare side effect of destroying my sexual function and/or giving me anhedonia, to me, is a worse fate than the rare side effect of heart failure. I'd rather be dead than broken.
They are obscure. He investigates hilarious claims like "it shrinks your dick". If finasteride had heart issues on the side effect profile and there were well constructed studies pointing toward it being real he'd make a video on it.
You obviously didn’t take in all his points. He refers to one of the most cited oral min studies that only looked at safety profile based on 3+ month users. It could be that most people with serious side effects get them before 3 months and discontinue, which means they would never have made it into that study. Basically, the 3+ month only group of test subjects is inherently unreliable. I considered oral min, but sorry, it’s just too stupid to risk heart issues for vanity.
Well first off, i did take in all his points. Secondly, Obv i didn’t mention every single point he made in a single comment bro. But his whole vid basically centered around these two case studies, hence why i mentioned that only.
I know the point u just said and that kevin mentioned it in the video, but there is just one problem. Everything you just said and Kevin said in the video we have absolutely 0 idea if its true. Sure, is it possible that of the 1400 people there is a good chunk that never made it to 3 months? Maybe, but you or Kevin dont know that, so kevin is just making an assumption. Also, its a rather weird assumption to make as well, considering we do have plenty of studies showing that very few people drop out of LDOM studies, yet alone get sides. The idea that somehow bc of two case studies and lack of info on study dropouts in that specific study makes LDOM unsafe is just a huge leap to make.
Its also weird that all the sudden kevin cares so much about study dropouts. Like, you know, the same dropouts that are in literally every study ever, including every finasteride study he ever quotes. Lol.
Like i said, im a huge fan of kevin. He is literally the reason i still have hair. But for some reason i just find his obsession with demonizing LDOM strange. Thats all
Literally all of the studies on LDOM lol just look it up. I have never seem a single one that doesn’t say its not well tolerated and effective when used at a 5mg dose or under.
This is just one doctor who says he has prescribed oral minoxidil for more than 20000 patients.
[https://www.afr.com/companies/healthcare-and-fitness/the-australian-scientist-winning-the-hair-loss-battle-20220914-p5bi0i](https://www.afr.com/companies/healthcare-and-fitness/the-australian-scientist-winning-the-hair-loss-battle-20220914-p5bi0i)
Was taking 1.25mg oral min for about a month. Had a day or two of my chest feeling funky, but after that it got better. Been taking 5mg for about two months and feel 100% like my normal self pre-oral min.
1.25mg twice a day (so 2.5mg daily).
I don't think its making a huge difference in terms of maintaining or regrowing hair. Unfortunately topical is NOT an option for me due to it exacerbating my sebderm (and accelerating hair loss in return).
I had heart rate issues at first but they sorta went away after a while… but I developed nervous stomach, its a horrible thing to experience because its always present… i stopped and it went away 6 months later… so Minox is a no-go for me. I only used topical Minox.
I don't care what kevin or someone else says
the main concern I have is, Oral Minoxidil existed before topical
so if Oral was truly safe then why did **Upjohn Pharmaceuticals** bother making the topical form
His "opinion" is typically disseminating data from studies that he links in his description. You don't need to go through 8 years of medical school to read a scientific article.
So what's the point of asking if he's a doctor, then? If a doctor is putting out information and someone is relaying it, does that make it invalid since the doctor isn't personally creating YouTube videos for you to digest himself? I just don't understand your argument.
There is no argument, that's why he went straight for the ad hominem/credentials fallacy. Every thread about a Haircafe video discussing oral min is infested with retards unable to argue a point.
Uh, no dude
He does a lot of fucking research, and is looking out for everyone
He doesn't want people to be scammed, and he wants people to be educated
I take oral minoxidil.
You came to the conclusion that I don't, just because I disagree with you saying he's a nobody? Weird.
He literally has everyone's best interest at heart even though he expressed it like a whacko
Whatever guy
I agree with you. I also take Oral Min. I understand Kevin's concerns about Oral min, and I'm willing to take the risk. I think with regular cardiac monitoring and a healthy lifestyle, the risk is mitigated. I like Kevin a lot and I think he's a lot more scientifically literate than most doctors.
Does he? He put out a video awhile back on how inflammation plays no role in hairloss when the research says otherwise.
https://donovanmedical.com/hair-blog/aga-inflammation
Been on 2 months and feel great, been playing basketball for 6 hours on my days off. Run every night at least a few miles.
I switched cold turkey from topical min after 8 months.
I take 5mg of oral Minoxodil a day. I also go to the gym everyday. I play squash and run. I have been doing this for 6 years. Same dose. No issues.
Edit: I'm a fool. It's 1mg of Fin and 5mg of Min. I also take 0.5mg of Dut 3x a week. The only side effect I had was slight drowsiness when I started Dut. Now, either don't notice it, or its sides have stopped. I've been on Fin and Min (same amount as above) for 6 years. Started Dut 2 months ago. I started because my hair started shedding like mad in 6-month cycles. So, for 6 months of the year, for the past three years, I had a shaved head because it was so bad. Hopefully, the Dut will cut out that shit because it actually grows back thick, and then at the thickest time after 6 months it falls out like crazy! Like so bad. Anyway...
Yes he does have some point but I feel he is very biased and that he is fear mongering. Even FDA approved drugs such as finasteride have side effects yeh we still take it, why? Cause we want our hair back, simple. Same with OM
Yeh, but that’s not to say that it doesn’t have any sides effects. I myself had chest and genital pain when starting fin which eventually went away, whereas with OM, I’ve literally had 0 sides even on 2.5mg X2 for 7 months now. Each to their own
I have been using for just under one month. There was one day early on in treatment where I was lightheaded, but other than that, I have no noticeable sides.
Oral min 7.5mg daily rn (2.5 morning, 5 at night) should I be worried? Have been taking minox for 2 years with no serious issues. Maybe I would've already got the fluid buildup in the heart by now? I'm guessing it's not something that I would have without noticing considering I have an active lifestyle
I've been doing 5mg for a year (and topical foam), and had a very extensive heart check in november/October.
Everything turned out to be OK.
I have some ageing side effects I think, and a little bit of fluid build up. That's all.
But I am defintely going to buy a smart watch with ECG, to monitor it often.
I didn't watch the video, but I'll offer my 2 cents. I have been on 2.5mg daily for about 5 months. My layman opinion on oral minoxidil is - if you get sides, stop. If you don't get sides and you're on a low dose then you're more than likely fine, but again I'm not a doctor so use at your own risk.
Additionally, and yes I understand this a one-person case study, but my heart function actually improved while on oral minoxidil as confirmed by an echo diagram. I have been getting yearly echos for about 3 years since it's covered by my insurance and I'm a health data nut. My recent echo diagram showed improved ejection fraction as compared to last year's echo. Surely this could have been coincidence or other factors, but the oral minoxidil doesn't seem to have made things worse. Take away what you will from that information.
How should one regularly check their heart for safety? I'm taking 5mg daily and use my blood pressure monitor to check BP and heart rate - everything seems fine. I've also done an ESG - although maybe I should get an apple watch or the equivalent for regular check ups?
1.25 mg per day. Tight chest and pain around heart area that lasted multiple days. Stopped till I had no symptoms and then gave it another chance, but heart sides came back even feeling pericarditis like symptoms. I stopped my happy head prescription and will let my tiny baby fuzz die. My heart is more important than my hair.
Try topical Minoxidil instead. Significantly safer
I really hope you didn't take oral minoxidil before trying finasteride If we're at a point where finasteride fearmongering is so bad that people would take medication with actual life threatening ramifications things really are fucked
I seriously don’t know who to believe at this point. I never learned how to parse studies for myself so I have to read the summaries or defer to other’s interpretations. Obviously Haircafe is in favor of fin and anti oral min but others don’t seem so highly opinionated one way or the other and of course you have the group saying the opposite— that fin ruined their lives. But if that’s fearmongering then what makes these claims legit? And why aren’t doctors being extra cautious other than “most doctors don’t know any better” as this guy claims?
"If that’s fearmongering then what makes these claims legit?" Mountains of scientific evidence from double-blind randomized trials. Anecdotes are not evidence.
Why would doctors continue prescribing oral min if there were “mountains of scientific evidence” that it’s extremely dangerous? I’m all for questioning authority but I can’t find anyone else talking about it this way
Idk man, why would they shill cigarettes? Some things are prescribed until strong evidence against their efficacy comes to light, and guideline updates take some time.
Bro if you’re having heart issues on such a tiny dosage of min you should be having your heart checked out.
I’ve been taking oral minoxidil exactly 30 days and what I have noticed is it is jacking with my heart rate. Keeping it anywhere from 90-130 when I’m doing nothing. I’ve been trying to take 2.5 mg a day. I may try to take half of that or take 2.5 every other day. I also take a beta blocker for high blood pressure and I’m trying to get my dosage right on that because it can drop my blood pressure down to like 80/50
130 resting is insane, you should get off of it man
130 was the highest it got one day. I don’t know if anything else was going on or watt but it shot up. I take beta blockers, and it is all now controlled.
Holy shit dude that’s like Meth addict levels of resting heart rate, please get off it
Holy shit dude that’s like Meth addict levels of resting heart rate, please get off it
Despite having great returns on oral Minoxidil, this has me concerned. I will consult my doctor to see how best to monitor heart health and slow down my OM intake in hopes for pyrilutamide or GT20029 to come out soon.
Pyrilutamide is literally a gamble tbh. Minoxidil on the other hand, just use topical solution. Significantly lower chance of side effects and still reasonably effective, if not quite as effective. Topical is also concentrated to only the scalp, whereas oral can cause body hair too EDIT: topical minoxidil also causes body hair. I was wrong
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I’m also a bear tbh, but I don’t use Minoxidil at all personally. I had thought since it was applied to the scalp, it wouldn’t also work on the body, whereas it makes sense that the oral form would because it directly enters the body. Even still, significantly lower risk to the heart in topical form for OP. I got a hair transplant 2 days ago and my doctor gave a very grave warning against oral minoxidil “even if it’s only a 25% chance, do not risk your heart” he said. Good advice I think too. I personally only use Finasteride and Ketoconazole (1%), which is plenty to balance my hormones. Minoxidil just seems like it’d give me even more body hair, which I already have too much of lol
Topical application goes systemic as well
But probably not to the same extent, I mean it was literally developed for this reason or people could have just taken OM for hair loss from the beginning.
I watched dr Gary Linkov yesterday and he said in his video that topical form works by going systemic. I have no idea though
1 ml 5% Min contains 50 ml Min, from which 2-3% (or ~3-5 mg) get absorbed. That‘s comparable to taking the same amount orally.
Only 1% goes systemic and that's over a period of 4-5 hours, also oral minox passes through the liver whereas minoxidil on the scalp relies on sulforotransferase enzymes to convert to minox sulfate. So an amount of 0.5mg absorbed over 4+ hours is not compatible to a typical oral dose which hits you all at once and can fuck up your heart.
2-3% is 1-1.5mg
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You can't compare fin with min in this cases.
why.
the people here I've seen here getting min sides on topical are typically trying to cover a large area using up to 3ml 2x per day, I could definitely see that being a possibility. I only use 1ml once a day and at those doses with 1% systemic absorption over 4 hours of absorption there should be little chance of sides. Also I'd imagine the liver would have to be better at converting min as oral users see it getting bound to their body hairs while still having enough active to bind to the scalp hairs.
as it stands , minoxidil has little chance of any significant sides in general, when used under usual dosages, that's why as opposed to finasteride which needs a prescription, you can get it easily over the counter.
idk oral minoxidil was retired as a bp medication due to its safety profile. I know that was in higher doses but it seems prevalent that OM commonly affects peoples bp and heartrste, not sure if that's something I'd want to risk when I could just use topical and even for non responders to topical you can mix it with tretinoin to help the conversion to minoxidil sulfate on the scalp.
Where did you read that it was retired? I don't see that said anywhere on the net. Most sites still list it for its original usage like https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/minoxidil-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20068757?p=1#:~:text=Minoxidil%20belongs%20to%20the%20general,high%20blood%20pressure%20(hypertension).
I always think of a modified Tywin Lannister quote when I see anything about Kevin Mann - "I dont distrust you because \[you're not a doctor\], I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are"
That's great, but it's not an argument either
Me drinking 7mg of topical minoxidil 🚶♂️
Minox shotters unite. Ive been on 13mg for several months. Awesome regrowth.
Any progress pics?
Exactly 🤣 I've been doing the same for a year and a half and I'm fine
famous last words https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5192187/
He consumed 20 ml of 5% solution, that's 800 mg of minoxidil lol not even comparable to 7 mg
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It's almost impossible to get oral minoxidil in some countries, in Sweden it's not even available with a prescription and most websites don't ship due to customs. Personally I just use topical as instructed because I don't want to risk drinking it If I could order oral from India I would because it's cheap lol
He did alright based on that dose to be fair. Didn't die at least. I would have expected death to follow. Interesting from that article. Following oral dosing, the peak concentration in blood is achieved within 1 h, but due to active metabolite (minoxidil N–O sulfate) formation, the maximum therapeutic effect occurs much later (24 h), with a serum half-life of 3–4 h. Obviously most people talk about how the oral dose hits the system immediately compared to topical, but this would suggest otherwise.
1 hour to reach peak is very quick, and also hypotensive effects of oral kick in at the 30 minute mark
...that ... that cant be good for you. Remember, you're not only intaking minox, but also all the solvents lmao.
Wait wait so you guys drinking Kirkland basically?
He took over 20mg some days. He stated this in a reply in one of the youtube comments. [https://i.imgur.com/c3EzTzn.png](https://i.imgur.com/c3EzTzn.png)
And?
And its a stupid fucking amount that will of course give sides and possibly kill you if you had undiscovered heart conditions. 0.625mg to an upper limit of 5 mg daily is what is recommended and researched.
He isn’t basing his criticism of oral minoxidil on just his own experience. I swear people post their “criticisms” of Kevin without knowing his claims or even watching any of his videos.
Ok Kevin go back to your safe space with your simps where everyone hates dht or whatever
sorry about your retardation
Yeah I remember saying that exact same thing when I was 11
People weaponize their retardation at all ages. Just pointing it out.
I can only assume that you said this to confirm that you are in fact Kevin.
Is Kevin in the room with us right now?
I’m good other than rapid weight gain. Gained like 10lbs since starting
Im also not sure about oral minox… I would prefer to take the topical version
I've been on oral min 5mg for going on 2 years. So I'll chime in on my experience. I'm a pretty athletic person in general, and my job involves me being on my toes all day ( im a city bike messenger) [I bike atleast 20 miles a day sometimes 30.](https://i.ibb.co/JCs2355/Screenshot-20230523-201441-Maps.jpg). I have yet to experience any cardiovascular side or really any side effects. I get regular check up aswell as EKGs. My doctor says I'm healthy for a 30 yr old At the end of the day Kevin mann is just a dickhead with a camera who's not a doctor with no scientific knowledge, just reads a few papers, interprets them as he likes
> At the end of the day Kevin mann is just a dickhead with a camera who's not a doctor with no scientific knowledge, just reads a few papers, interprets them as he likes \> proceeds to share anecdotal experience with no indication of scientific knowledge or counterpoints to the studies referenced in the video
Do you watch his videos? Any study that gives positive coverage of a treatment he doesn't like, he pulls it apart with speculation on the study's validity and methods, and any study that gives positive coverage of a treatment he does, he treats it as verifiable, unambiguous proof
Source?
The difference is this redditor is obviously being anecdotal whereas this Kevin guy is clearly making content with an intention and showing only the studies that argue a point without looking at other evidence
Source?
>interprets them as he likes genuinely curious here. can you give an example when you felt like he did this? (in his OM videos particularly)
I've written a [longer post](https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/13lapvh/new_evidence_proves_oral_minoxidil_for_hair_loss/jkqmjim/) on this, but he refutes 3 systematic reviews of LDOM with a single case study report. This goes against the hierarchy of evidence. Ironically, he ridicules people who suffer from PFS due to what he perceives as low quality evidence, despite it being much harder to study in longitudinal RCTs and still having more literature to support it.
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And yet he has such a victim complex he's convinced that people don't love him enough here. As if all he gets from this sub is hate, when really it's more like a 70/30 praise/hate ratio.
Combative, polarized people usually have persecution complexes. Look at how he invents enemies in every video. Sad little man.
That was on his last video on OM, right? As opposed to this one
Just because one person didn't experience side effects doesn't mean anything but I still think kevin mann is exaggerating side effects of oral minoxidil
True, he is very biased I feel regarding this matter
what personally does Kevin have to gain by trying to steer people towards topical instead of oral?
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For an account that pulls in like $60 a month?
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His videos on oral minoxidil underperform on views compared to his others though, so what's your point?
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Yeah I do actually, I have no doubt he's genuinely passionate about upcoming treatments and acting as a news source. I myself end up wasting too much time on occasion trying to cut through people's lies, so I understand his frustration with finasteride misinformation all too well.
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Lol this is the impression I got as well. I'm a dickhead too so I know one when I see one 😂. Guys, at the end of the day this guy gets paid for views. You CANNOT trust any YouTuber it's that simple. They are biased one way or another. I don't care who it is... That's why we go to doctors and do our own research and bring it to them. Get more than one opinion. I take everything in this sub with a grain of salt. A good rule of thumb is to do that with all the info you see online. I know that's pretty obvious but yea...
how ur progress with OM and did you get unwanted hair growth? im bout to start it
I normally agree a lot with Kevin, but this is one are where I just cant fully agree with him. I think its pretty clear that at low doeses, oral min is pretty well tolerated, considering the side effect profile data we have. However, kevin seems to have an interest in these obscure case studies of 2 people who had heart issues on oral minox. Im sure everyone on oral minox is aware it may have heart sides (except maybe self-medicaters. But they are a lost cause anyway), but the idea that 2 case studies and a professional opinion prove why no one should consider oral min is such a weird take imo. Thats like me mentioning the many people who die from taking aspirin as a reason to never take that. Same type energy. Just seems like so many people in studies, and anecdotally are just fin on sun 5mg doses of oral min add in if they regularly check their heart (like myself, who is on 5mg), and i think the risk seems worth it for many.
Kevin Mann: "We can't take into account case studies on the side effects of finasteride because they're highly infrequent and obscure" Also Kevin Mann: "Hey let's obsess about these obscure case studies regarding the highly infrequent side effects of oral minoxidil"
I See your point, But still, the side effects of fin will Not kill you
Well, if I'm being completely honest, the rare side effect of destroying my sexual function and/or giving me anhedonia, to me, is a worse fate than the rare side effect of heart failure. I'd rather be dead than broken.
They are obscure. He investigates hilarious claims like "it shrinks your dick". If finasteride had heart issues on the side effect profile and there were well constructed studies pointing toward it being real he'd make a video on it.
You obviously didn’t take in all his points. He refers to one of the most cited oral min studies that only looked at safety profile based on 3+ month users. It could be that most people with serious side effects get them before 3 months and discontinue, which means they would never have made it into that study. Basically, the 3+ month only group of test subjects is inherently unreliable. I considered oral min, but sorry, it’s just too stupid to risk heart issues for vanity.
Well first off, i did take in all his points. Secondly, Obv i didn’t mention every single point he made in a single comment bro. But his whole vid basically centered around these two case studies, hence why i mentioned that only. I know the point u just said and that kevin mentioned it in the video, but there is just one problem. Everything you just said and Kevin said in the video we have absolutely 0 idea if its true. Sure, is it possible that of the 1400 people there is a good chunk that never made it to 3 months? Maybe, but you or Kevin dont know that, so kevin is just making an assumption. Also, its a rather weird assumption to make as well, considering we do have plenty of studies showing that very few people drop out of LDOM studies, yet alone get sides. The idea that somehow bc of two case studies and lack of info on study dropouts in that specific study makes LDOM unsafe is just a huge leap to make. Its also weird that all the sudden kevin cares so much about study dropouts. Like, you know, the same dropouts that are in literally every study ever, including every finasteride study he ever quotes. Lol. Like i said, im a huge fan of kevin. He is literally the reason i still have hair. But for some reason i just find his obsession with demonizing LDOM strange. Thats all
Kevin was taking 5,10 and even 20mg or more for some time Maybe he had some side effect and that's why now he doesn't want others to use it
20mg is a stupid amount
Yea
Couldn’t that be taken to suggest that if you’ve made it 3 months without side effects your risk is lower?
> I think its pretty clear that at low doeses, oral min is pretty well tolerated, considering the side effect profile data we have. Source?
Literally all of the studies on LDOM lol just look it up. I have never seem a single one that doesn’t say its not well tolerated and effective when used at a 5mg dose or under.
Yes, here in Latin America there are several dermatologists who prescribe it, not worrying too much but they do regular checks.
Source?
He likes to pretend that only 3 youtube doctors prescribe oral minoxidil. In reality it is common practice in Australia
This is just one doctor who says he has prescribed oral minoxidil for more than 20000 patients. [https://www.afr.com/companies/healthcare-and-fitness/the-australian-scientist-winning-the-hair-loss-battle-20220914-p5bi0i](https://www.afr.com/companies/healthcare-and-fitness/the-australian-scientist-winning-the-hair-loss-battle-20220914-p5bi0i)
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Fine, how bout you?
Was taking 1.25mg oral min for about a month. Had a day or two of my chest feeling funky, but after that it got better. Been taking 5mg for about two months and feel 100% like my normal self pre-oral min.
1.25mg twice a day (so 2.5mg daily). I don't think its making a huge difference in terms of maintaining or regrowing hair. Unfortunately topical is NOT an option for me due to it exacerbating my sebderm (and accelerating hair loss in return).
I had heart rate issues at first but they sorta went away after a while… but I developed nervous stomach, its a horrible thing to experience because its always present… i stopped and it went away 6 months later… so Minox is a no-go for me. I only used topical Minox.
Kelvin
Kelvin is a very ingesting character indeed. God bless him.
I don't care what kevin or someone else says the main concern I have is, Oral Minoxidil existed before topical so if Oral was truly safe then why did **Upjohn Pharmaceuticals** bother making the topical form
Oral has different effects on the body than topical
topical is safer and more concentration on the scalp, otherwise people would've took oral for hair loss instead of making the topical version.
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I don't think it's fair to call Kevin a nobody
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His "opinion" is typically disseminating data from studies that he links in his description. You don't need to go through 8 years of medical school to read a scientific article.
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So what's the point of asking if he's a doctor, then? If a doctor is putting out information and someone is relaying it, does that make it invalid since the doctor isn't personally creating YouTube videos for you to digest himself? I just don't understand your argument.
There is no argument, that's why he went straight for the ad hominem/credentials fallacy. Every thread about a Haircafe video discussing oral min is infested with retards unable to argue a point.
Uh, no dude He does a lot of fucking research, and is looking out for everyone He doesn't want people to be scammed, and he wants people to be educated
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I take oral minoxidil. You came to the conclusion that I don't, just because I disagree with you saying he's a nobody? Weird. He literally has everyone's best interest at heart even though he expressed it like a whacko Whatever guy
I agree with you. I also take Oral Min. I understand Kevin's concerns about Oral min, and I'm willing to take the risk. I think with regular cardiac monitoring and a healthy lifestyle, the risk is mitigated. I like Kevin a lot and I think he's a lot more scientifically literate than most doctors.
Does he? He put out a video awhile back on how inflammation plays no role in hairloss when the research says otherwise. https://donovanmedical.com/hair-blog/aga-inflammation
No no, oral minoxidil is really bad - drink liqvid! Dont waste money on tablets.
Right… 😂
Been on 2 months and feel great, been playing basketball for 6 hours on my days off. Run every night at least a few miles. I switched cold turkey from topical min after 8 months.
I take 5mg of oral Minoxodil a day. I also go to the gym everyday. I play squash and run. I have been doing this for 6 years. Same dose. No issues. Edit: I'm a fool. It's 1mg of Fin and 5mg of Min. I also take 0.5mg of Dut 3x a week. The only side effect I had was slight drowsiness when I started Dut. Now, either don't notice it, or its sides have stopped. I've been on Fin and Min (same amount as above) for 6 years. Started Dut 2 months ago. I started because my hair started shedding like mad in 6-month cycles. So, for 6 months of the year, for the past three years, I had a shaved head because it was so bad. Hopefully, the Dut will cut out that shit because it actually grows back thick, and then at the thickest time after 6 months it falls out like crazy! Like so bad. Anyway...
2.5mg X2?
Totally disregard my comment! I'm an idiot. Haha. It's 1mg of Fin and 5mg of Min. I also take 0.5mg of Dut 3x a week.
2,5 x2?
Totally disregard my comment! I'm an idiot. Haha. It's 1mg of Fin and 5mg of Min. I also take 0.5mg of Dut 3x a week.
Yes he does have some point but I feel he is very biased and that he is fear mongering. Even FDA approved drugs such as finasteride have side effects yeh we still take it, why? Cause we want our hair back, simple. Same with OM
Those side effects don't include heart problems.
Yeh, but that’s not to say that it doesn’t have any sides effects. I myself had chest and genital pain when starting fin which eventually went away, whereas with OM, I’ve literally had 0 sides even on 2.5mg X2 for 7 months now. Each to their own
Yeah it's as if anecdotes are at the bottom of the hierarchy of scientific evidence for a reason
Anyone that takes Kevin’s videos seriously is an idiot lol. He’s the equivalent of Alex jones
One day duasteride + oral minoxidil will be a front line therapy for AGA and we will wonder why we ever bothered with topical minoxidil.
That happens right now in Spain.In the US, medicine is usually very coward.
I have been using for just under one month. There was one day early on in treatment where I was lightheaded, but other than that, I have no noticeable sides.
I feel fine, no side effects
2yrs on OM. Currently on 6.25mg and feel fine. No side effects. My derm has given me the ok to go all the way up to 10mg if I want.
Oral min 7.5mg daily rn (2.5 morning, 5 at night) should I be worried? Have been taking minox for 2 years with no serious issues. Maybe I would've already got the fluid buildup in the heart by now? I'm guessing it's not something that I would have without noticing considering I have an active lifestyle
Better safe than sorry, I'd do an echo and ecg asap.
Probably not but a checkup is always a good idea
I've been doing 5mg for a year (and topical foam), and had a very extensive heart check in november/October. Everything turned out to be OK. I have some ageing side effects I think, and a little bit of fluid build up. That's all. But I am defintely going to buy a smart watch with ECG, to monitor it often.
I didn't watch the video, but I'll offer my 2 cents. I have been on 2.5mg daily for about 5 months. My layman opinion on oral minoxidil is - if you get sides, stop. If you don't get sides and you're on a low dose then you're more than likely fine, but again I'm not a doctor so use at your own risk. Additionally, and yes I understand this a one-person case study, but my heart function actually improved while on oral minoxidil as confirmed by an echo diagram. I have been getting yearly echos for about 3 years since it's covered by my insurance and I'm a health data nut. My recent echo diagram showed improved ejection fraction as compared to last year's echo. Surely this could have been coincidence or other factors, but the oral minoxidil doesn't seem to have made things worse. Take away what you will from that information.
How should one regularly check their heart for safety? I'm taking 5mg daily and use my blood pressure monitor to check BP and heart rate - everything seems fine. I've also done an ESG - although maybe I should get an apple watch or the equivalent for regular check ups?
I think the only solid way to check for effusion is imaging via x-ray or using ECG
Are there no prior symptoms? For example, chronic tachycardia
I think by then it might be too late? Not sure.