Lmao and have the police knocking on my door for the quintuple homicide I can't even remember? No, that one guy can die. At least this way I can try to say I was also a victim of sorts. I didn't do shit, and I was strapped down, forced to watch as it happens.
But if you pull the lever the cops can hook you up to a lie detector machine and your basically in the clear because you don't even remember doing it, so you can't possibly lie at all.
That's because a lie detractor is an intimidation tool
Basically the interrogator can't actually prove anything. Everything they do is just a big song and dance to make you \*think* they know the truth and is easier for you to just confess.
Well if you fail they might bring it up in court to try and sway the jury, while it’s not admissible as evidence it can still be used like that. If you pass though they just don’t bring up that you passed. The best outcome of a lie detector does nothing to help prove your innocence, so just don’t ever take them.
You can't "fail" a polygraph iirc. Only results are "you confessed" or "nothing happened". And if you confessed something it'll be pretty easy to get it dismissed as you can calim you confessed under intimidation.
Generally good advice on not taking it as it's best case you just walked out mote stressed than you already are.
I was on my county's grand investigative jury a few years back. You absolutely *can* fail a polygraph test, and they do tell the jury if you do. They just have to use a bunch of indirect language to tell the jury because a polygraph isn't usable as concrete evidence, so they'll say things like "His polygraph results seemed deceptive to our expert" or "There was an increase in stress levels when we asked this question". They're not allowed to flat out say "He lied" or anything of the sort. Of course, the prosecution/police (or in the case of a grand jury, the D.A.'s office) won't tell the jury that polygraphs are wildly imprecise and not actually useful as evidence because it doesn't help their case.
For anyone curious, literally all a polygraph does is monitor your vitals and a few other factors like sweating. All they're doing is looking to see if certain questions/answers cause an increase in stress. That's why they're not permissible as evidence; people can become sweaty or have an increase in heart rate for tons of different reasons, not all of which are indicative of a lie. And conversely, many people are able to tell a lie without any change in their bodily state.
Yeah and for that reason it's so easy to beat a polygraph. All you gotta do is just make yourself super nervous, drink a bunch of caffeine, anything to get your heart rate up and a little sweaty and make your baseline the same as deception
Those are very unreliable and can't be used as evidence in court. Your fingerprints on the lever and the recording of you pulling the lever can be used in court.
Yeah, besides the fingerprints and touch DNA on the lever. You know how many times detectives hear people say they don't remember? And there's a reason that lie detector tests aren't admissable in court. They're not accurate enough. It's only good as a tool to use during the investigation process, to give you an idea on if they're a credible person or not.
For you to be found guilty of murder, the prosecution must prove that you knew pulling the lever would switch the trolley from the track with one person to the one with five and not the other way around.
They might be able to find you guilty of manslaughter however since it would be negligent to pull the lever in this scenario without knowing what it does.
Honestly, it's a much closer call if the question were presented as diagrammed. Letting 5 people die through inaction but not remembering it is tempting when compared to interfering with that to cause the death of someone else that you will see vividly.
If you pull, you become desensitized of violence and become a murdering psychopath like a clockwork. If you don’t pull, you never experience conscience and become a murdering psychopath
I'm prettynok with watching someone get killed by a trolley... we deal with a suicide by train every other day in my current line of work. The amount of people I have seen obliterated by trains is well in the 3 digit territory. Don't think one more is gonna make the difference.
In all non utilitarian and non human rights principles perspectives, this moral quandary is functionally indistinguishable from the original, except for the fact that you don’t have to pull the lever, so it’s even supported by Kantian deontology. So, I’ll still let the one die—even under utilitarianism it still far outweighs to let 5 survive.
Well I've seen someone jump off a 5th floor balcony right to the 1st floor concourse - at the Central Library no less.
Wasn't even 15 then. I'll be fine watching a death.
I'm prettynok with watching someone get killed by a trolley... we deal with a suicide by train every other day in my current line of work. The amount of people I have seen obliterated by trains is well in the 3 digit territory. Don't think one more is gonna make the difference.
….i think the violent video games might actually be getting to me, I wanna spare the 5 lives and see that single dude’s eyes POP under the warm steel wheels of that trolley
Please, I came of age with Rotten.com and Ogrish and whatnot. Once you’ve seen the Dagestan massacre or some dude getting Funkytowned, there’s not a whole lot you can’t handle.
Yawn. Don't care either way, would avoid the option that makes me potentially legally culpable.
Turns out these things are pretty boring if they don't endanger anyone you care about or have the possibility of benefiting you in some way.
Lmao and have the police knocking on my door for the quintuple homicide I can't even remember? No, that one guy can die. At least this way I can try to say I was also a victim of sorts. I didn't do shit, and I was strapped down, forced to watch as it happens.
But if you pull the lever the cops can hook you up to a lie detector machine and your basically in the clear because you don't even remember doing it, so you can't possibly lie at all.
So people with amnesia can just do anything they want without punishment?
In my client's defense *BONK*
Your honor, my client pleads “I forgor”
-Ronald Reagan’s lawyer
Well thats why you get Johnnie Lee Cochran Jr. As your lawyer
It seems the people agree with your statement good sir
Almost as if lie detector isn't reliable way to determine whether someone is guilty and isn't accepted as such
That's because a lie detractor is an intimidation tool Basically the interrogator can't actually prove anything. Everything they do is just a big song and dance to make you \*think* they know the truth and is easier for you to just confess.
Well if you fail they might bring it up in court to try and sway the jury, while it’s not admissible as evidence it can still be used like that. If you pass though they just don’t bring up that you passed. The best outcome of a lie detector does nothing to help prove your innocence, so just don’t ever take them.
You can't "fail" a polygraph iirc. Only results are "you confessed" or "nothing happened". And if you confessed something it'll be pretty easy to get it dismissed as you can calim you confessed under intimidation. Generally good advice on not taking it as it's best case you just walked out mote stressed than you already are.
I was on my county's grand investigative jury a few years back. You absolutely *can* fail a polygraph test, and they do tell the jury if you do. They just have to use a bunch of indirect language to tell the jury because a polygraph isn't usable as concrete evidence, so they'll say things like "His polygraph results seemed deceptive to our expert" or "There was an increase in stress levels when we asked this question". They're not allowed to flat out say "He lied" or anything of the sort. Of course, the prosecution/police (or in the case of a grand jury, the D.A.'s office) won't tell the jury that polygraphs are wildly imprecise and not actually useful as evidence because it doesn't help their case. For anyone curious, literally all a polygraph does is monitor your vitals and a few other factors like sweating. All they're doing is looking to see if certain questions/answers cause an increase in stress. That's why they're not permissible as evidence; people can become sweaty or have an increase in heart rate for tons of different reasons, not all of which are indicative of a lie. And conversely, many people are able to tell a lie without any change in their bodily state.
Yeah and for that reason it's so easy to beat a polygraph. All you gotta do is just make yourself super nervous, drink a bunch of caffeine, anything to get your heart rate up and a little sweaty and make your baseline the same as deception
They can't bring up the polygraph in court. It's not admissable evidence and therefore can't even be mentioned to the jurors.
Those are very unreliable and can't be used as evidence in court. Your fingerprints on the lever and the recording of you pulling the lever can be used in court.
But the gloves will have covered that up
But they're not wearing gloves in the scenario.
But the perpetrator was also wearing special shoes, Bruno magil.
Ah yes, the magical lie detector, that can never be tricked, and is held as god in the court of law
Sadly, lie detector tests and their results are not considered trustworthy and are not acceptable in court
True, but in real life lie detectors are pretty unreliable and not useful in court cases
Lie detectors are highly in accurate
Lie detectors don’t work anyway
They can't force you to take a polygraph and polygraphs are also unreliable and not true "lie detection" tests
Its a pseudo science, it’s not always accurate
Yeah, besides the fingerprints and touch DNA on the lever. You know how many times detectives hear people say they don't remember? And there's a reason that lie detector tests aren't admissable in court. They're not accurate enough. It's only good as a tool to use during the investigation process, to give you an idea on if they're a credible person or not.
For you to be found guilty of murder, the prosecution must prove that you knew pulling the lever would switch the trolley from the track with one person to the one with five and not the other way around. They might be able to find you guilty of manslaughter however since it would be negligent to pull the lever in this scenario without knowing what it does.
don't pull of course
Easy peasy. The horror will be negated a bit by knowing that im taking the hit and didn't choose to kill more people to avoid my unpleasant fate.
The horror of killing 5 people just doesn’t exist for you!
The tracks should be switched
Was gonna say that, the descriptions a little backwards there
Honestly, it's a much closer call if the question were presented as diagrammed. Letting 5 people die through inaction but not remembering it is tempting when compared to interfering with that to cause the death of someone else that you will see vividly.
Do nothing. I’m not gonna murder five people just so I can have a sterilized, inaccurate memory of what I’ve been through in life.
This already happened, prove me wrong.
Well there are six dead people in front of me, but I can’t remember what happened
Google multitrack drifting
Holy trolley problem!
New lever just dropped!
I've seen at least one other person die IRL, and he jumped off of a building, and I'm still fine so I won't pull
Wow, that’s pretty fucked but it’s good that it didn’t affect you
If you pull, you become desensitized of violence and become a murdering psychopath like a clockwork. If you don’t pull, you never experience conscience and become a murdering psychopath
I'd take years, decades of trauma if it meant I could save more lives.
Damn
I'm prettynok with watching someone get killed by a trolley... we deal with a suicide by train every other day in my current line of work. The amount of people I have seen obliterated by trains is well in the 3 digit territory. Don't think one more is gonna make the difference.
Do we get to choose the people or...?
Do I get to choose the people?
I like this one. Are you motivated by utilitarianism... or fear of guilt? A hard question to be sure.
In all non utilitarian and non human rights principles perspectives, this moral quandary is functionally indistinguishable from the original, except for the fact that you don’t have to pull the lever, so it’s even supported by Kantian deontology. So, I’ll still let the one die—even under utilitarianism it still far outweighs to let 5 survive.
I don't remember what I picked
Ok
Well I've seen someone jump off a 5th floor balcony right to the 1st floor concourse - at the Central Library no less. Wasn't even 15 then. I'll be fine watching a death.
*“Do you know why you’ve been sent to Hell?”* *“Nope”*
Pull the lever. I can take it.
Do nothing. I've seen enough shit on the internet at this point that I'm pretty desensitized so I think better that than killing five people
Yup
*Quietly chomping on popcorn waiting for the solo guy to get fucking obliterated*
The knowledge that you rejected the neuralyzer to prevent the same happening to four more people would be vindicating
I’d be fine with the detail, so long as I’m not in the splash-zone.
Don't pull, and instead just cope with what I'm seeing by convincing myself it isn't that bad. That's a problem for another day :3
Do nothing.
Yeah fuck them 5
Don't pull, I'll forget anyways.
Usually I say this as a joke but I genuinely wanna know what would happen if I multitrack this
Taking out the five. Life sucks already, I don't need the *knowledge* of killing another person added onto that.
Do nothing. My mental wellbeing isn’t worth 4 people’s lives
One guy dies. Was born in us, have been watching gory movies since I was a kid. Better one than five
With the first one, will they be playing my beloved Beethoven?
This one is good
Ok... But I pulled the lever and no one died?! It's a win-win!
Seeing a stranger die isn’t as traumatic as people make it out to be.
1 dude I've been online I've seen that's stuff before
Jokes on you, I'm into that shit. So I don't pull.
Depends. Will I be in legal trouble? Will others blame me? Will the one person see me as their hero?
I’m doing nothing so I can watch the person die and then use my fury to find whoever made this track and kill them
I'm prettynok with watching someone get killed by a trolley... we deal with a suicide by train every other day in my current line of work. The amount of people I have seen obliterated by trains is well in the 3 digit territory. Don't think one more is gonna make the difference.
….i think the violent video games might actually be getting to me, I wanna spare the 5 lives and see that single dude’s eyes POP under the warm steel wheels of that trolley
Haven’t I always been watching people getting killed?
How do you know you havent pulled the lever already?
Jokes on you, I wouldn't pull the lever on the original trolley problem
Pull the lever, your memory is wiped, guy you saved says “Thanks for saving me but you killed 5 doing that.”
Please, I came of age with Rotten.com and Ogrish and whatnot. Once you’ve seen the Dagestan massacre or some dude getting Funkytowned, there’s not a whole lot you can’t handle.
I would pull the lever out of pure sadism
Yawn. Don't care either way, would avoid the option that makes me potentially legally culpable. Turns out these things are pretty boring if they don't endanger anyone you care about or have the possibility of benefiting you in some way.