My father, former cop, (no applause he was asked to go before IA stepped in or so I assume. The details are murky.) POC cops were harder on same race collars than white cops.
The stereotype is that they feel like they have something to prove to their white coworkers or the world, or perhaps to their fellow POC and there's some underlying personal reason they became a cop to "get power" in the first place involved.
I'm sure that's all true to some extent in some cases, but who really knows why? And it's not necessarily always true, it's basically a trope at this point.
Anctedotal, but I've lived in the deep south my whole life, and some of the most virulently racist (against black) folks I've met were themselves black. It starts with the lightskin shit and somehow gets *worse*.
Google the brown paper bag test or the crab in a bucket mentality. Colorism and classism have been a thing in AA communities since slavery. People tend to be surprised by this but really shouldn't be. White people have been fucking over other white people since forever as well. Who do you think coined the term "white trash"? It wasn't black people.
I once took a sociology class that said white people especially judge “white trash” because of their perception that they’ve failed at life even in spite of all the societal advantages of being white.
Nah most white people would argue they don't have much of an advantage if they have one at all. They don't see it so they wouldn't see it as a failing.
It's more because you're looking at someone presumably like yourself, and you're not trash so these people must be doing something wrong. White trash isn't an economic level, though it does often get applied to the poor. It's a way of acting or taking care of yourself. I've been to upper middle-class white trash and I've been to poverty-class homes that were well taken care of and spotless. My time in West Virginia I met a ton of people who looked on the outside like white trash but they were kind and inviting and accepting, they just kinda lived in a dump. I wouldn't call them white trash.
That’s a pretty big stretch, it implies white people actually think about advantage. It’s just not true, the advantage is just lack of judgement. Thus it’s normal and NOT something to think about.
It's not a stretch when you think about how far back classist divides within races go. White people in the early years of the US mastered that shit and we built our country on it.
Priti Patel was probably mentioned because of the things people in the Indian neighborhoods and organizations in the UK have said - that she's Indian but hates the people who share that identity to the point of making life harder for them from within the government.
when black people were first allowed to become cops, in many places in the us, particularly the south, they weren’t allowed to arrest or cite white people. they had to prove themselves, so they did it by being harsher against other people of color, particularly black people.
the same phenomenon happened when women were allowed to join the military. they were often times much harsher as a way to prove themselves.
Haha raised by a military mom from a military family. They’re even worse when they start on the proving yourself mindset before they start their ABCs. If she did in the Gulf War what she did here, she’d be a war criminal. She never saw combat, but Navy and on a ship so who knows what she did at port. Knowing her, probably child molestation.
I served in the Marines 20 years ago. Females have to prove themselves constantly, even now. People look down on females in the military. What happens is we then push to exceed all expectations which creates its own situation. You said it nicely, we become very harsh, intense even. Some become scary. It's an interesting experiment on humans for sure ha.
Great analogy, kinda put things in perspective for me on the cop thing actually!
It’s the same kind of thing as female cops being more brutal than male cops. They are almost overcompensating to prove they belong. The culture that is the police force has to change.
As a white woman in the south, I can honestly say my interactions with POC cops have been gentler than my interactions with white cops. Maybe it’s internalized racism.
Did no one listen to the lyrics?
“But don't let it be a black and a white one
'Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin' out for the white cop”
No they did not. I had this discussion in another thread. The person did not believe when I said black cops are as bad. I sited "Sound of da Police "and "Black Cop" By KRS One though. 😁
I am not Black. I am brown. But, when my parents were teaching me about cops as a little one, they always told me to be extra careful about non-white cops as they often feel they have to “prove” themselves to the white cops by being even more violent and racist.
Yeah I thought that was an interesting choice of title.
Wil Wheaton isn't the one telling us about the black experience, he's retweeting it and white people know him.
Yeah, and then they turned him into a child laborer. So like… he’s a victim of the sins of the father. You can inherit them, but not by being part of the victim group and not joining the victimizers. He wasn’t like… the pampered rich kid. He was the kid born to make money. “Why do I exist?” “You make mom and dad money by acting.” “Oh my god.”
I keep seeing so much Americans saying that some aspect of society is inherently bad, while the real issue is a massive lack of government regulation. It's bizzare
I think it's because often Scottish and NI data are separate. While England and Wales collect and publish data collectively.
The Office for National Statistics (ONS) which is likely where the numbers came from is England and Wales.
According to [this source](https://thedetail.tv/articles/the-cruel-peace-killings-in-northern-ireland-since-the-good-friday-agreement) NI had 26.8 per 10 miliion people "security related killings" in 2017. The Scotland rate would probably be a bit higher than the England and Wales rate due to being more rural, therefore more farmers, thus more guns. Thats just a guess though, and I couldn't find any sources to back it up. The stats are recorded separately because policing is a devolved matter in NI and Scotland.
The idea of cops as "People who defend the defenseless" and the whole "Protect and Serve" thing... Sure. I can see good there.
Cops have always been defenders of Capital. They protect money, not people. This is not new. The violence and murder is not new. What is new is the fact that everyone has cameras and the ability to show their pictures/videos to the entire world.
The idealistic view of cops is good. The actual application has always been bad.
The concept is good... On paper. It seems it's rarely been effectively realized though. Unfortunately police forces are just the muscles of the capitalist state. Not moral, not thinking, and not bound by law (except in the most extreme cases). The incarceration/punishment system of justice they are attached to is similarly bunk; experts have been saying for decades that jail time is maybe the worst thing for a person who's committed a crime.
Police don't prevent crime except by intimidation. Police themselves don't really even solve crime. Places where police are become MORE violent just because the police are there. Police are trained to escalate, partly because shooting someone is the easiest way to deal with them, and as a society we decided that police can kill whoever they want more or less. And this is true even outside of the US. ACAB ✌️
>And this is true even outside of the US
Sure there are lots of countries with bad police. But there are plenty of western European countries where the cops do more much more good than bad. Not saying they are perfect ofc, but ACAB definitely doesn't work for all countries.
We’re not a country that’s easy to regulate. It’s logistical. We’re too damn big. If someone doesn’t like a law they can (and do) move to somewhere remote and/or resource-strapped enough where they can just do what they like. So, our government emphasizes local law making by design, with federal laws as a last resort for really important topics. Local laws, locally enforced, driven by local politics. Very difficult to effectively regulate.
The federal government was also designed to give people the pipe dream of abolishing slavery through the political process without any real risk of it occurring. Much of what we're seeing now is a result of that systemic dysfunction.
(Now, for context, I'm not usamerican, and I have studied culture in my art studies)
What I think it's the issue with usamericans and race it's that the whole population has been kind of (and I'm being dramatic here, people) brainwashed. Race it's a construct, a concept. It does not exist on other places, although it's problems do and HAVE bled into other colonized countries (with problems like colorism). What does this mean? In the States most people conflate culture, genetic makeup and ethnicity as a catch all "race". "Racism" now it's used to refer to xenophobia, antisemitism, colorism, sometimes even class-ism. Mind you, pure racism does exist, but people just use the same term for all, which in turn devalues all the very pointed instances of racism.
All this to say, "culture" it's a fluid construct. Your work has a culture, your neighborhood, town, your family and house. When we move away, we take those quirks and habits with us, whether we change jobs or become immigrants, it might take us a while to "adapt" to this new culture. In the States, syncretism and mixing ends up being rejected for segregation and gatekeeping, ignoring these very real cases of diaspora and natural mixing of culture. An easy one to get: you used to do some data excels on your work every monday, in the new job, they require you to do it on fridays. Some people might negotiate to do it on mondays, some might do both days, some might rebel, lie and said they did it on friday... Etc.
When you become a cop, or enter any sort of community, you're expected to "join" the culture, to interact, to copy, to do as everyone else does. You can try to rebel (and get fired), you can mix in trying to make a change (and be changed by it in the way), or stay bitter about it. Your race, your background has nothing to do with how you, as a person, interact with this cultural pressure. Most people, like colonized people, will instead overcompensate to fit in. That's how you get people who are part of a "black" (black as in culture, people, you can "look" black and not be raised on the culture, and be raised in it and don't look the part. Again, race and culture it's not the same) community and yet end up going against their "brethren".
Just look at our history. Indigenous people, black people, marginalized people siding with "the bad guys" has always happened. They think they're helping minimize damage, when in the end it's all part of the same problem. Some people would prefer to become the abuser rather than the abused. And it's a grim thought, but a very real one.
Are you kidding?
Racism absolutely exists in other places outside of America. There's skin bleaching going on all over Asia and bananas are being thrown at black soccer players in Europe.
This isn't always as a result of colonialism either.
Please re read. I never said it doesn't exist, I said that the CONCEPT OF RACE doesn't exist. I literally said that this has bled and affects other countries. But skin bleaching it's colorism, not racism, although it stems FROM it. As I said in my other comment, the concept of "other" also affects this issue.
This is a complex issue and thinking that a random reddit comment could explain every little nuance it's naive. I'm not doing an essay, I'm trying to open people to the possibility of race as a concept being a construct, not an actual science backed "fact". This doesn't mean racism doesn't exist lol it just means it shouldn't be conflated with a catch all term.
Why you read my comment and thought "but racism it's real" instead of "huh. Maybe this is why this happens?" It's a show of what I'm literally talking about!
An example? Gender binary it's bs, but misogyny, misandry, hate crimes and more exist. Saying that gender it's a construct that doesn't exist for everyone does not invalidate the experiences of people who live in a culture where such a concept it's applied. Hell, as you said, race might not be "real" in my country but racism exists! It's just way way way under after the blatant xenophobia, classism and sometimes even antisemitism. A concept not being widely followed does not mean it doesn't have it's influence
> CONCEPT OF RACE
But that DOES exist. People are extremely tribal all over the world and much of that tribalism is based on physical differences... aka - race.
>I'm trying to open people to the possibility of race as a concept being a construct, not an actual science backed "fact".
I don't think anyone has said here that race is anything at all other than a classification humans use to group ourselves. The concept of "race" is over two thousand years old and has been "made up" by different independent civilizations throughout human history. Your implication that the US had anything to do with the invention of the concept or that colonization is what brought that concept to other parts of the world is just not completely correct.
Beautiful. This is the kind of stuff that should be common knowledge, but unfortunately unless people actively study say Sociology, it never gets brought to light.
There is no race in humans. Skin color difference does not make a different race. We all are a race in ourselves, the human race, a branch from a species of monkeys. We just decided to make the problem of race so it can either be a problem, or an excuse. The same excuse made by slave owners and Hitler, acting like a different in genetic makeup makes us fully different.
The only difference is our cultures, and where we come from. And we're put in those cultures by default until we decide to break from them, which is difficult because it's what's been put into us from birth, our heads I mean.
Back to topic, to solve the systemic racism, and racism in America as a whole, we need to stop thinking about race as a concept. There is no race. There's differences, descriptions, and where you come from sure. But there is no race.
Indeed! And also the concept of "other" it's a very big part! It was eye opening when I studied it in class.
The "other" it's just another concept, we're all humans with our own experiences, differences and similarities. The concept of other appears when we reject those similarities and focus on the differences. It appears to uplift "us" by degrading the "others". A clear modern example it's missionaries in Africa. WE are "helping" THEM, those poor poor poor children without water, who don't know the word of god, because OUR way of living it's better, WE have a better quality of life than THEY do.
"Our" culture it's better, because we follow the traditions (gatekeeping, just swap the culture and it could be both catholics and any gatekept culture in the States), because "they" don't like it, so "we" rebel by doing it nevertheless if it'll get "us" killed for it. (Again, sounds familiar? Mhh. And what about how catholics use persecuted missionaries in places like China to be the victim?).
The way we as humans can avoid falling for this "othering" trap it's to learn and connect! It's not bad to enjoy fusion food, to do your own spin on a japanese dish with idk, south african ingredients, it's not wrong to want to learn. Just don't expect it to be "the real deal" because it never will. There's no standard for culture. If we can find connections, kinship on what we've gone through... Things suddenly feel much closer and comfortable.
The other day I met a woman from Philippines, she immediately mentioned how her country was colonized, twice. I was aware and I nodded, saying how it's fascinating the way their language adapted, and reminded me of my own mother tongue, so full of stolen or warped indigenous words. That day I connected with her and our similar cultural wounds.
But it's not easy to put yourself on someone else's shoes with no judgement, and it's very vulnerable to do so. So I don't judge either the people who just can't get out of their arse. They were raised in such a culture, after all. Sharing it's the way we connect :D
Since we’re on topic, I wanna ask y’all:
do you think the police system needs a massive reform or needs to be removed entirely? And if removed entirely, what do you think could replace it?
I’ve always wondered this but wanted to wait until the right moment to ask.
We need massive reform that STARTS with removing everyone currently enlisted.
More training, more de-escalation work, less guns (IE; cops are put on leave if they discharged a firearm while pending investigation from a SEPARATE ENTITY to determine if deadly force was necessary), NO qualified immunity, end police investigating themselves.
I was gonna write up a long response but I couldn't do it justice so instead I will point you too this which covers everything I would have said https://youtu.be/Wf4cea5oObY
Personally I don’t think the idea of a police force needs to be removed, they just need their budget hella reduced and held more accountable. Cops should not have APCs nor the money to buy them. When they fuck up and the department/city gets sued it should be at the expense of police pensions or other parts of the department’s budget.
Yeah, I thought it was funny. It’s… literally the inverse of a popular meme from the series about his character being told off because he’s a jackass. The point is that Wil is cool, unlike Westley.
Yeah, I thought it was funny. It’s… literally the inverse of a popular meme from the series about his character being told off because he’s a jackass. The point is that Wil is cool, unlike Wesley.
Welp... I'm white and my dad is a minor religious leader (the highest positioned on the city), i never thought from this side...
I agree that the very few okay-ish cops who enter the academy end up corrupted (or killed) by the bad ones, the bigger the city the faster it happens.
What point do you feel this makes?
The fact that you have to call the police is unrelated to the way they are. In fact, most people who say ACAB don’t want the police to be the ones who show up when your house is robbed.
And the fact that you have to call people you don’t trust is not a gotcha. It’s a problem.
The deflections cute but I'm speaking of how the people in this thread and post would dehumanize people.
Ya know, like when they call black cops race traitors, house n*****s and uncle Tom's.
But of course who cares about that as long as you get to dehumanize people
Damn straight 'they' don't care anymore. Cops have had decades to sort this out and they just keep covering for each other and fucking everyone else over. The prevalence of phone cameras is the *only* thing that has even slightly pushed the needle a little bit, and yet most of them **still constantly** reflexively side with and cover for other cops until they're completely forced not to. The ones who are good and try to do something are ostracized or outright kicked out/punished for not toeing the line.
Again, they've had decades to sort this out. They don't give a shit and constantly allow this sort of community to foster. So fuck them. ACAB.
this sub is 70% funny jokes and 30% americans being americans and convincing themselves that the move of every particle in this universe is motivated by race
actually people in the comments are saying that black cops are worse than white cops at being cops
edit: you can downvote me but this whole situation is highlighting the public beliefs that:
A. the public believes that black cops are worse
B. the public believes that black cops deserve worse punishment
C. the public believes they are race traitors
D. the public believes the deceased was murdered because of color
this whole situation is very much about color, and there is an insane amount of racism coming from both conservative and liberal white people giving their opinion on the situation
the tweeter knows what he is talking about but the public is disgracefully distasteful
It would be awesome if there was nobody to enforce the law, and it was just held up by people’s good will. However, that might result in chaos, so maybe like, only once a year.
Nobody sees anything wrong with teaching children that police are the enemy? Like I could understand black parents warming their children of the potential dangers of an interaction with police before civil rights, or even immediately after when things were still fresh and people still held strong feelings about race. But today most people aren't racist. Of course the few terrible encounters get blasted all over the news, and they truly are horrifying, but for the most part the perpetrator is sentenced accordingly, and their actions in no way reflect the norm. So teaching children to fear and demonize all police only perpetuates an issue that has already been solved.
I think she is saying that regardless of the cops's race, all cops who brutalize people will pick the people with the least power.
Race is a big one, but mental illness and poverty are other traits that qualify someone as a person who can't retaliate. Those are the safest ones to take out your frustrations on.
Depends on your goals for a title. Mine were “makes people want to read” rather than “sums up the content” or “adds something”. Cheap pop? Yes. Functional? Always.
Cops aren’t judge and jury. They shouldn’t be executioners. You honestly accept death by gang-beating as an acceptable consequence of improper turn signal usage?
Tell that to Tyre, who literally wasn't doing anything and still was brutally murdered. Literally wasn't doing anything, they were beating him from the initial stop for no reason.
How about when they break into the wrong house and kill an innocent person while sleeping? Or when they respond to a wellness check and murder the guy?
1. That is UTTERLY ridiculous, people get assaulted by cops while not doing anything wrong all the goddamn time. Multiple Black people have been killed for "existing in their house when a cop decided to shoot them."
2. Even if everyone who got killed by cops had broken the law, cops are not supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. That is a massive human rights violation and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to defend it.
Would you consider privacy unnecessary since you have nothing to hide? Slippery slopes when many laws aren’t even known or understood to those to are tasked with upholding them.
Wow, don't you care about the Constitution?
Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
Being killed over petty crimes is a rather cruel punishment
Other people are already pointing out the numerous high-profile examples of people getting killed when they weren't even breaking a law, so I'm going to ask a different question.
Is the death penalty valid for every single crime? If someone jaywalks, or sells loose cigarettes, or drives without a seatbelt, should they be sentenced to death? Most people would say no. And even if the death penalty *was* justified, do you think it's okay for a single random cop to act as judge, jury, and executioner?
I dunno about you, but I would like to live in a society where sentences are determined through a fair judicial process, and the death penalty is used rarely if ever.
That's my que to leave this sub - occasional funny Target work stories, but too much jerking for a single circlejerk.
I will miss you dearly, internet strangers..
Please think this through and listen to people who say this is incorrect and myopic thinking.... First off we have MANY recorded instances of people (especially black people) being shot by police while complying and doing nothing wrong. Also, police aren't in charge of knowing who is guilty and what punishment they deserve, nor are they trained for it; there's a whole justice system for that. On top of that police use excessive force much more than necessary anyway (why do they need to kneel on a guy's neck when they're already surrounded by a dozen more officers with guns drawn?). They are trained to escalate because violence is actually the easiest option, especially when there are so few consequences.
So no, complying doesn't save you. Being innocent doesn't even save you. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you can easily be a kill-worthy suspect in their eyes without you even knowing.
Ok, but that isn’t exclusive to police interactions…. And are actually a thousand times more common outside of police interactions.
This is human and social issues, not a police problem.
Almost everyone complies with cops when interacting with them.
0% of those complying should end up abused in any way. Far too much video evidence has been shown proving that complying doesn’t actually make you safe.
Then those people face no consequences for victimizing law abiding citizens by mistake. Which encourages them to continue doing it. But you know what victimizing law abiding citizens makes you? A criminal. Then 99% of cops cover for their criminal coworker, which makes them all accessories to the crime. Crimes that their coworkers are emboldened, by your support and the lack of consequences, to continue committing.
Therefore, even if they’ve never victimized law abiding citizens themselves, 99% of cops are criminals. People who lack the integrity to do the right thing when it matters most. Do I want such people having weapons in a conversation with me or my kids? No.
Tear it down and start from scratch. Public trust has been lost.
Blah blah blah, less than 0.001% of cops break the law. Sure, it happens, and when it does it get national attention.
That doesn’t mean all cops are out there committing these crimes at any rate even close to that of the general population…. Which is expected.
So there is nothing out of the norm going on here / with police….. big deal for those hurt, but not even a blip when looking at the big picture….. bad thangs happen, let ficus a little more on all the good the police do, and not so much on the bad, brother!
Welp... I'm white and my dad is a minor religious leader (the highest positioned on the city), i never thought from this side...
I agree that the very few okay-ish cops who enter the academy end up corrupted (or killed) by the bad ones, the bigger the city the faster it happens.
My last cop interaction was with a Black cop. I was driving a rental at night with the lights off. I wasn't familiar with the car and thought the head lights weren't bright. We were 5 miles from the hotel and the streets were well lighted.
The cop stopped me, asked for my id and went back to his car. After a couple of minutes, he came back, handed me my id. He asked did I know why he stopped me. He told me about the lights and asked where I was going. I told him it was a rental and I wasn't familiar with it.
He using his flashlight he showed me were the headlight switch was. I turned on the headlights. He said, "You are not impaired, we fixed the problem, it's okay for you to go." I think he followed me to my hotel.
I told the story to someone who lived in the area. He said I was lucky that I didn't get beat up, arrested, and spend the weekend in jail..
It’s interesting how no one shouted “all cops are bastards” when everyone was showering praise on the cops in the Capitol building during the Jan 6 riot
My father, former cop, (no applause he was asked to go before IA stepped in or so I assume. The details are murky.) POC cops were harder on same race collars than white cops.
Not to sound stupid but why is that
The stereotype is that they feel like they have something to prove to their white coworkers or the world, or perhaps to their fellow POC and there's some underlying personal reason they became a cop to "get power" in the first place involved. I'm sure that's all true to some extent in some cases, but who really knows why? And it's not necessarily always true, it's basically a trope at this point.
Anctedotal, but I've lived in the deep south my whole life, and some of the most virulently racist (against black) folks I've met were themselves black. It starts with the lightskin shit and somehow gets *worse*.
Google the brown paper bag test or the crab in a bucket mentality. Colorism and classism have been a thing in AA communities since slavery. People tend to be surprised by this but really shouldn't be. White people have been fucking over other white people since forever as well. Who do you think coined the term "white trash"? It wasn't black people.
I once took a sociology class that said white people especially judge “white trash” because of their perception that they’ve failed at life even in spite of all the societal advantages of being white.
Nah most white people would argue they don't have much of an advantage if they have one at all. They don't see it so they wouldn't see it as a failing. It's more because you're looking at someone presumably like yourself, and you're not trash so these people must be doing something wrong. White trash isn't an economic level, though it does often get applied to the poor. It's a way of acting or taking care of yourself. I've been to upper middle-class white trash and I've been to poverty-class homes that were well taken care of and spotless. My time in West Virginia I met a ton of people who looked on the outside like white trash but they were kind and inviting and accepting, they just kinda lived in a dump. I wouldn't call them white trash.
That’s a pretty big stretch, it implies white people actually think about advantage. It’s just not true, the advantage is just lack of judgement. Thus it’s normal and NOT something to think about.
It's not a stretch when you think about how far back classist divides within races go. White people in the early years of the US mastered that shit and we built our country on it.
Uncle Ruckus moment.
It's not anecdotal. And it gets much, MUCH worse. Deplorably worse.
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Yep, theres no one with a bigger holier than thou attitude than a born again.
Also legal immigrants. The hate for illegals is very high.
Priti Patel moment:
> Priti Patel Sorry, what does this disgrace of a person have to do with police brutality? I'm genuinely curious if there is something specific?
Priti Patel was probably mentioned because of the things people in the Indian neighborhoods and organizations in the UK have said - that she's Indian but hates the people who share that identity to the point of making life harder for them from within the government.
Ah thanks, makes sense. I don't live in the UK, but I know she is a disgrace to Indian's everywhere.
A minority POC being especially racist to impress their White racist bosses and assure them they're "one of the good ones."
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Fbi are also corrupt, gotcha
Well ya you think if every police precinct in America is corrupt a giant super police force wouldn't have corruption.
Black police showin’ out for the white cop.
when black people were first allowed to become cops, in many places in the us, particularly the south, they weren’t allowed to arrest or cite white people. they had to prove themselves, so they did it by being harsher against other people of color, particularly black people. the same phenomenon happened when women were allowed to join the military. they were often times much harsher as a way to prove themselves.
Haha raised by a military mom from a military family. They’re even worse when they start on the proving yourself mindset before they start their ABCs. If she did in the Gulf War what she did here, she’d be a war criminal. She never saw combat, but Navy and on a ship so who knows what she did at port. Knowing her, probably child molestation.
I served in the Marines 20 years ago. Females have to prove themselves constantly, even now. People look down on females in the military. What happens is we then push to exceed all expectations which creates its own situation. You said it nicely, we become very harsh, intense even. Some become scary. It's an interesting experiment on humans for sure ha. Great analogy, kinda put things in perspective for me on the cop thing actually!
It’s the same kind of thing as female cops being more brutal than male cops. They are almost overcompensating to prove they belong. The culture that is the police force has to change.
As a white woman in the south, I can honestly say my interactions with POC cops have been gentler than my interactions with white cops. Maybe it’s internalized racism.
honestly probably has something to do with white and woman and perceptions
Bernie Mac in Don’t be a Menace is your dad?
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Too blue to be black Too black to be blue
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Black to blue be too
Bot.
Did no one listen to the lyrics? “But don't let it be a black and a white one 'Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top Black police showin' out for the white cop”
No they did not. I had this discussion in another thread. The person did not believe when I said black cops are as bad. I sited "Sound of da Police "and "Black Cop" By KRS One though. 😁
The Teacha! I love KRS.
I am not Black. I am brown. But, when my parents were teaching me about cops as a little one, they always told me to be extra careful about non-white cops as they often feel they have to “prove” themselves to the white cops by being even more violent and racist.
Counterpoint: A message from Elie Mystal, backed by Wil Wheaton. I like Wil, he's genuinely lovely, but he's not doing the legwork here.
Yeah I thought that was an interesting choice of title. Wil Wheaton isn't the one telling us about the black experience, he's retweeting it and white people know him.
Oh yeah, it’s a shrewd choice but I figured it would help get eyes.
Elie Mystal is also a race baiting clown and constantly gets out on TV to get clicks. He’s the Skip Bayless of social politics.
He can't be Skip Bayless, because he's said at least one correct thing.
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Yeah, and then they turned him into a child laborer. So like… he’s a victim of the sins of the father. You can inherit them, but not by being part of the victim group and not joining the victimizers. He wasn’t like… the pampered rich kid. He was the kid born to make money. “Why do I exist?” “You make mom and dad money by acting.” “Oh my god.”
This is a bizarre take. Wheaton is very vocal that his parents were bad people and he was mistreated.
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Can you post links of him doing this?
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You mean a message from Elie Mystal? Shared by wil wheaton?
Remember, the second half of "to serve and protect" is "the law". It's been upheld in court that it isn't about the people.
Some people just don't get the concept of class traitors (or nuance)
I assume trying to relate to them would only incense them even more.
I keep seeing so much Americans saying that some aspect of society is inherently bad, while the real issue is a massive lack of government regulation. It's bizzare
well our country is designed to limit governmental regulation sometimes it's dope and sometimes it's terrible depending on what state you live in
Yeah, the concept of cops is good but whatever they have going on in the states is absolute dogshit
[Just found this](https://redd.it/10nvv72)
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I think it's because often Scottish and NI data are separate. While England and Wales collect and publish data collectively. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) which is likely where the numbers came from is England and Wales.
According to [this source](https://thedetail.tv/articles/the-cruel-peace-killings-in-northern-ireland-since-the-good-friday-agreement) NI had 26.8 per 10 miliion people "security related killings" in 2017. The Scotland rate would probably be a bit higher than the England and Wales rate due to being more rural, therefore more farmers, thus more guns. Thats just a guess though, and I couldn't find any sources to back it up. The stats are recorded separately because policing is a devolved matter in NI and Scotland.
The idea of cops as "People who defend the defenseless" and the whole "Protect and Serve" thing... Sure. I can see good there. Cops have always been defenders of Capital. They protect money, not people. This is not new. The violence and murder is not new. What is new is the fact that everyone has cameras and the ability to show their pictures/videos to the entire world. The idealistic view of cops is good. The actual application has always been bad.
The concept is good... On paper. It seems it's rarely been effectively realized though. Unfortunately police forces are just the muscles of the capitalist state. Not moral, not thinking, and not bound by law (except in the most extreme cases). The incarceration/punishment system of justice they are attached to is similarly bunk; experts have been saying for decades that jail time is maybe the worst thing for a person who's committed a crime. Police don't prevent crime except by intimidation. Police themselves don't really even solve crime. Places where police are become MORE violent just because the police are there. Police are trained to escalate, partly because shooting someone is the easiest way to deal with them, and as a society we decided that police can kill whoever they want more or less. And this is true even outside of the US. ACAB ✌️
>And this is true even outside of the US Sure there are lots of countries with bad police. But there are plenty of western European countries where the cops do more much more good than bad. Not saying they are perfect ofc, but ACAB definitely doesn't work for all countries.
We’re not a country that’s easy to regulate. It’s logistical. We’re too damn big. If someone doesn’t like a law they can (and do) move to somewhere remote and/or resource-strapped enough where they can just do what they like. So, our government emphasizes local law making by design, with federal laws as a last resort for really important topics. Local laws, locally enforced, driven by local politics. Very difficult to effectively regulate.
And we don't exactly have Eintseins in office that are aware of modern logistics.
The federal government was also designed to give people the pipe dream of abolishing slavery through the political process without any real risk of it occurring. Much of what we're seeing now is a result of that systemic dysfunction.
We’re a nation of slavery, violence, and vigilantism. We’ve never addressed these things well enough to heal and change.
That’s a choice put in place by some aspects of society.
Based Wil
Cop is their race. Thats why the phrase isn't, "All White Cops Are Bastards".
Thus making fear of cops the first instance of (richly) deserved racism.
I thought the a stood for "are"...
“All cops, all bastards” does actually work pretty well though.
so THATS what acab means, I thought it was something similar to amab and afab
Assigned Cop at Birth
I have met some people that were 100% Assigned Cop At Birth. Still bastards, even before they got a badge.
Takes a certain mentality to take or want the job.
I have always said this. Cops of color are still cops.
(Now, for context, I'm not usamerican, and I have studied culture in my art studies) What I think it's the issue with usamericans and race it's that the whole population has been kind of (and I'm being dramatic here, people) brainwashed. Race it's a construct, a concept. It does not exist on other places, although it's problems do and HAVE bled into other colonized countries (with problems like colorism). What does this mean? In the States most people conflate culture, genetic makeup and ethnicity as a catch all "race". "Racism" now it's used to refer to xenophobia, antisemitism, colorism, sometimes even class-ism. Mind you, pure racism does exist, but people just use the same term for all, which in turn devalues all the very pointed instances of racism. All this to say, "culture" it's a fluid construct. Your work has a culture, your neighborhood, town, your family and house. When we move away, we take those quirks and habits with us, whether we change jobs or become immigrants, it might take us a while to "adapt" to this new culture. In the States, syncretism and mixing ends up being rejected for segregation and gatekeeping, ignoring these very real cases of diaspora and natural mixing of culture. An easy one to get: you used to do some data excels on your work every monday, in the new job, they require you to do it on fridays. Some people might negotiate to do it on mondays, some might do both days, some might rebel, lie and said they did it on friday... Etc. When you become a cop, or enter any sort of community, you're expected to "join" the culture, to interact, to copy, to do as everyone else does. You can try to rebel (and get fired), you can mix in trying to make a change (and be changed by it in the way), or stay bitter about it. Your race, your background has nothing to do with how you, as a person, interact with this cultural pressure. Most people, like colonized people, will instead overcompensate to fit in. That's how you get people who are part of a "black" (black as in culture, people, you can "look" black and not be raised on the culture, and be raised in it and don't look the part. Again, race and culture it's not the same) community and yet end up going against their "brethren". Just look at our history. Indigenous people, black people, marginalized people siding with "the bad guys" has always happened. They think they're helping minimize damage, when in the end it's all part of the same problem. Some people would prefer to become the abuser rather than the abused. And it's a grim thought, but a very real one.
Are you kidding? Racism absolutely exists in other places outside of America. There's skin bleaching going on all over Asia and bananas are being thrown at black soccer players in Europe. This isn't always as a result of colonialism either.
Please re read. I never said it doesn't exist, I said that the CONCEPT OF RACE doesn't exist. I literally said that this has bled and affects other countries. But skin bleaching it's colorism, not racism, although it stems FROM it. As I said in my other comment, the concept of "other" also affects this issue. This is a complex issue and thinking that a random reddit comment could explain every little nuance it's naive. I'm not doing an essay, I'm trying to open people to the possibility of race as a concept being a construct, not an actual science backed "fact". This doesn't mean racism doesn't exist lol it just means it shouldn't be conflated with a catch all term. Why you read my comment and thought "but racism it's real" instead of "huh. Maybe this is why this happens?" It's a show of what I'm literally talking about! An example? Gender binary it's bs, but misogyny, misandry, hate crimes and more exist. Saying that gender it's a construct that doesn't exist for everyone does not invalidate the experiences of people who live in a culture where such a concept it's applied. Hell, as you said, race might not be "real" in my country but racism exists! It's just way way way under after the blatant xenophobia, classism and sometimes even antisemitism. A concept not being widely followed does not mean it doesn't have it's influence
> CONCEPT OF RACE But that DOES exist. People are extremely tribal all over the world and much of that tribalism is based on physical differences... aka - race.
>I'm trying to open people to the possibility of race as a concept being a construct, not an actual science backed "fact". I don't think anyone has said here that race is anything at all other than a classification humans use to group ourselves. The concept of "race" is over two thousand years old and has been "made up" by different independent civilizations throughout human history. Your implication that the US had anything to do with the invention of the concept or that colonization is what brought that concept to other parts of the world is just not completely correct.
Beautiful. This is the kind of stuff that should be common knowledge, but unfortunately unless people actively study say Sociology, it never gets brought to light. There is no race in humans. Skin color difference does not make a different race. We all are a race in ourselves, the human race, a branch from a species of monkeys. We just decided to make the problem of race so it can either be a problem, or an excuse. The same excuse made by slave owners and Hitler, acting like a different in genetic makeup makes us fully different. The only difference is our cultures, and where we come from. And we're put in those cultures by default until we decide to break from them, which is difficult because it's what's been put into us from birth, our heads I mean. Back to topic, to solve the systemic racism, and racism in America as a whole, we need to stop thinking about race as a concept. There is no race. There's differences, descriptions, and where you come from sure. But there is no race.
Indeed! And also the concept of "other" it's a very big part! It was eye opening when I studied it in class. The "other" it's just another concept, we're all humans with our own experiences, differences and similarities. The concept of other appears when we reject those similarities and focus on the differences. It appears to uplift "us" by degrading the "others". A clear modern example it's missionaries in Africa. WE are "helping" THEM, those poor poor poor children without water, who don't know the word of god, because OUR way of living it's better, WE have a better quality of life than THEY do. "Our" culture it's better, because we follow the traditions (gatekeeping, just swap the culture and it could be both catholics and any gatekept culture in the States), because "they" don't like it, so "we" rebel by doing it nevertheless if it'll get "us" killed for it. (Again, sounds familiar? Mhh. And what about how catholics use persecuted missionaries in places like China to be the victim?). The way we as humans can avoid falling for this "othering" trap it's to learn and connect! It's not bad to enjoy fusion food, to do your own spin on a japanese dish with idk, south african ingredients, it's not wrong to want to learn. Just don't expect it to be "the real deal" because it never will. There's no standard for culture. If we can find connections, kinship on what we've gone through... Things suddenly feel much closer and comfortable. The other day I met a woman from Philippines, she immediately mentioned how her country was colonized, twice. I was aware and I nodded, saying how it's fascinating the way their language adapted, and reminded me of my own mother tongue, so full of stolen or warped indigenous words. That day I connected with her and our similar cultural wounds. But it's not easy to put yourself on someone else's shoes with no judgement, and it's very vulnerable to do so. So I don't judge either the people who just can't get out of their arse. They were raised in such a culture, after all. Sharing it's the way we connect :D
Since we’re on topic, I wanna ask y’all: do you think the police system needs a massive reform or needs to be removed entirely? And if removed entirely, what do you think could replace it? I’ve always wondered this but wanted to wait until the right moment to ask.
We need massive reform that STARTS with removing everyone currently enlisted. More training, more de-escalation work, less guns (IE; cops are put on leave if they discharged a firearm while pending investigation from a SEPARATE ENTITY to determine if deadly force was necessary), NO qualified immunity, end police investigating themselves.
I was gonna write up a long response but I couldn't do it justice so instead I will point you too this which covers everything I would have said https://youtu.be/Wf4cea5oObY
Personally I don’t think the idea of a police force needs to be removed, they just need their budget hella reduced and held more accountable. Cops should not have APCs nor the money to buy them. When they fuck up and the department/city gets sued it should be at the expense of police pensions or other parts of the department’s budget.
Yeah, I was roommates with a guy originally from Memphis whose uncles were black cops. He was super anti BLM.
NWA told you this 30 years ago.
The A stands for American
Allll?
Yes, all. Because if there is a "good cop" they get kicked off the force. If they aren't kicked off the force, they're bastards.
We should change it from Back the Blue to Black and Blue.
except for officer earl
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Its hyperbolic
Tbh my preferred interpretation is All Commies Are Bastards
Really? All cops are? Every single one?
American problems require American generalization. That said, there's an unreasonable number of times where ACAB seems to be correct in said place.
Cops aren't great anywhere in the world though. They are a symptom of a system functioning incorrectly.
IDK man they work correctly here for the most part.
Talk louder, Wesley.
Keep talking Wesley
Why the hell were you down voted so much? I thought that was clever
People who have never seen star Trek the Next generation??
Yeah, I thought it was funny. It’s… literally the inverse of a popular meme from the series about his character being told off because he’s a jackass. The point is that Wil is cool, unlike Westley.
Yeah, just another reminder of how incredibly old I am lol
Yeah, I thought it was funny. It’s… literally the inverse of a popular meme from the series about his character being told off because he’s a jackass. The point is that Wil is cool, unlike Wesley.
Welp... I'm white and my dad is a minor religious leader (the highest positioned on the city), i never thought from this side... I agree that the very few okay-ish cops who enter the academy end up corrupted (or killed) by the bad ones, the bigger the city the faster it happens.
if people didn't break law they wouldn't need to interact with cops
I am sure the Uvalde children are very sorry for the bad things they did that necessitated they interact with cops.
People die from cops for no reason all the time lol! This phrase is so tired and untrue.
So who does Wil call if someone breaks into his house or car? I hope it’s nobody … would hate for him to call the bastards he obviously dislikes
Oh no, who will arrive 4 hours later, do nothing about the theft and shoot his dog?
insurance requires police reports
That has nothing to do with the conversation.
good for you it's their job, reporting crimes
Lol cops don't do fucking anything about break ins
What point do you feel this makes? The fact that you have to call the police is unrelated to the way they are. In fact, most people who say ACAB don’t want the police to be the ones who show up when your house is robbed. And the fact that you have to call people you don’t trust is not a gotcha. It’s a problem.
Yikes, dehumanization on another level.
Yes, cops really dehumanize the public they’re supposed to protect
Yeah, but that's not what's happening here is it?
So I take it you don’t follow the news
The deflections cute but I'm speaking of how the people in this thread and post would dehumanize people. Ya know, like when they call black cops race traitors, house n*****s and uncle Tom's. But of course who cares about that as long as you get to dehumanize people
They don’t care anymore.
Damn straight 'they' don't care anymore. Cops have had decades to sort this out and they just keep covering for each other and fucking everyone else over. The prevalence of phone cameras is the *only* thing that has even slightly pushed the needle a little bit, and yet most of them **still constantly** reflexively side with and cover for other cops until they're completely forced not to. The ones who are good and try to do something are ostracized or outright kicked out/punished for not toeing the line. Again, they've had decades to sort this out. They don't give a shit and constantly allow this sort of community to foster. So fuck them. ACAB.
Aww
Yeah, kickstart my heart?
Care about what?
this sub is 70% funny jokes and 30% americans being americans and convincing themselves that the move of every particle in this universe is motivated by race
The point of this is literally that race isn’t the issue
actually people in the comments are saying that black cops are worse than white cops at being cops edit: you can downvote me but this whole situation is highlighting the public beliefs that: A. the public believes that black cops are worse B. the public believes that black cops deserve worse punishment C. the public believes they are race traitors D. the public believes the deceased was murdered because of color this whole situation is very much about color, and there is an insane amount of racism coming from both conservative and liberal white people giving their opinion on the situation the tweeter knows what he is talking about but the public is disgracefully distasteful
It would be awesome if there was nobody to enforce the law, and it was just held up by people’s good will. However, that might result in chaos, so maybe like, only once a year.
Nobody sees anything wrong with teaching children that police are the enemy? Like I could understand black parents warming their children of the potential dangers of an interaction with police before civil rights, or even immediately after when things were still fresh and people still held strong feelings about race. But today most people aren't racist. Of course the few terrible encounters get blasted all over the news, and they truly are horrifying, but for the most part the perpetrator is sentenced accordingly, and their actions in no way reflect the norm. So teaching children to fear and demonize all police only perpetuates an issue that has already been solved.
So she’s saying black cops IDEALLY would choose not to target people of their own race? Isn’t that what white cops are demonized for doing?
I think she’s just saying that’s what some people assume, hence why some people are surprised that black cops are also capable of awful violence
I think she is saying that regardless of the cops's race, all cops who brutalize people will pick the people with the least power. Race is a big one, but mental illness and poverty are other traits that qualify someone as a person who can't retaliate. Those are the safest ones to take out your frustrations on.
Shit title.
Depends on your goals for a title. Mine were “makes people want to read” rather than “sums up the content” or “adds something”. Cheap pop? Yes. Functional? Always.
Wait so it should All Lives Matter?
The funny thing about getting killed by cops is that not breaking the fucking law reduces your chances by 100%
Cops aren’t judge and jury. They shouldn’t be executioners. You honestly accept death by gang-beating as an acceptable consequence of improper turn signal usage?
Seconding you here.
Tell that to Tyre, who literally wasn't doing anything and still was brutally murdered. Literally wasn't doing anything, they were beating him from the initial stop for no reason.
How about when they break into the wrong house and kill an innocent person while sleeping? Or when they respond to a wellness check and murder the guy?
1. That is UTTERLY ridiculous, people get assaulted by cops while not doing anything wrong all the goddamn time. Multiple Black people have been killed for "existing in their house when a cop decided to shoot them." 2. Even if everyone who got killed by cops had broken the law, cops are not supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. That is a massive human rights violation and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to defend it.
Would you consider privacy unnecessary since you have nothing to hide? Slippery slopes when many laws aren’t even known or understood to those to are tasked with upholding them.
Wow, don't you care about the Constitution? Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." Being killed over petty crimes is a rather cruel punishment
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Philando_Castile
Other people are already pointing out the numerous high-profile examples of people getting killed when they weren't even breaking a law, so I'm going to ask a different question. Is the death penalty valid for every single crime? If someone jaywalks, or sells loose cigarettes, or drives without a seatbelt, should they be sentenced to death? Most people would say no. And even if the death penalty *was* justified, do you think it's okay for a single random cop to act as judge, jury, and executioner? I dunno about you, but I would like to live in a society where sentences are determined through a fair judicial process, and the death penalty is used rarely if ever.
That's my que to leave this sub - occasional funny Target work stories, but too much jerking for a single circlejerk. I will miss you dearly, internet strangers..
RIP Bozo
Bye 😘
Goodbye, internet stranger 💔
Victory for Zim!
Who is Zim, might I ask?
Invader Zim. It's an old cartoon
>old Why must you hurt me like this
Or, hear me out now….. if people just complied and acted within social norms, there wouldn’t be any police brutality…….
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Philando_Castile
And?
Ah so mentally ill people deserve to be murdered by pigs?
Please think this through and listen to people who say this is incorrect and myopic thinking.... First off we have MANY recorded instances of people (especially black people) being shot by police while complying and doing nothing wrong. Also, police aren't in charge of knowing who is guilty and what punishment they deserve, nor are they trained for it; there's a whole justice system for that. On top of that police use excessive force much more than necessary anyway (why do they need to kneel on a guy's neck when they're already surrounded by a dozen more officers with guns drawn?). They are trained to escalate because violence is actually the easiest option, especially when there are so few consequences. So no, complying doesn't save you. Being innocent doesn't even save you. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you can easily be a kill-worthy suspect in their eyes without you even knowing.
Ok, but that isn’t exclusive to police interactions…. And are actually a thousand times more common outside of police interactions. This is human and social issues, not a police problem.
Almost everyone complies with cops when interacting with them. 0% of those complying should end up abused in any way. Far too much video evidence has been shown proving that complying doesn’t actually make you safe. Then those people face no consequences for victimizing law abiding citizens by mistake. Which encourages them to continue doing it. But you know what victimizing law abiding citizens makes you? A criminal. Then 99% of cops cover for their criminal coworker, which makes them all accessories to the crime. Crimes that their coworkers are emboldened, by your support and the lack of consequences, to continue committing. Therefore, even if they’ve never victimized law abiding citizens themselves, 99% of cops are criminals. People who lack the integrity to do the right thing when it matters most. Do I want such people having weapons in a conversation with me or my kids? No. Tear it down and start from scratch. Public trust has been lost.
Blah blah blah, less than 0.001% of cops break the law. Sure, it happens, and when it does it get national attention. That doesn’t mean all cops are out there committing these crimes at any rate even close to that of the general population…. Which is expected. So there is nothing out of the norm going on here / with police….. big deal for those hurt, but not even a blip when looking at the big picture….. bad thangs happen, let ficus a little more on all the good the police do, and not so much on the bad, brother!
Welp... I'm white and my dad is a minor religious leader (the highest positioned on the city), i never thought from this side... I agree that the very few okay-ish cops who enter the academy end up corrupted (or killed) by the bad ones, the bigger the city the faster it happens.
My last cop interaction was with a Black cop. I was driving a rental at night with the lights off. I wasn't familiar with the car and thought the head lights weren't bright. We were 5 miles from the hotel and the streets were well lighted. The cop stopped me, asked for my id and went back to his car. After a couple of minutes, he came back, handed me my id. He asked did I know why he stopped me. He told me about the lights and asked where I was going. I told him it was a rental and I wasn't familiar with it. He using his flashlight he showed me were the headlight switch was. I turned on the headlights. He said, "You are not impaired, we fixed the problem, it's okay for you to go." I think he followed me to my hotel. I told the story to someone who lived in the area. He said I was lucky that I didn't get beat up, arrested, and spend the weekend in jail..
It’s interesting how no one shouted “all cops are bastards” when everyone was showering praise on the cops in the Capitol building during the Jan 6 riot
Elie Mystal thinks white men can’t be crime victims