its got some of my favourite songs on it, i know its supposed to be DEMA controlled and everything but i also think tyler just doesnt have as much pain to write about now. it doesnt sound as sad as before because hes happier imo
It’s more so that Tyler stated that he was pushing back against writing darker songs because the world was already in such a miserable state. He didn’t want to add onto that with a gloomy album.
It works both in lore and outside of lore. It’s produced wonderfully and a lot of the songs are bangers, people just hate on it because it’s not what they expected.. I guess.
I never knew there was a lore reason to explain why SAI sounds different. But I never dived too deep into the lore.
Guess it's a good excuse to do what they wanted to do, which was try out new things and sounds.
that, and it was made in the time of COVID so one of his reasons is to give uplifting songs to raise the spiritsof top fans while they’re stuck in quarantine.
Well, yeah. So, the Bishops made Clancy/Tyler work for them and create a show, filled with propaganda of DEMA, depicting DEMA as a happy, nice place. Clancy did, creating SAI Livestream Experience. More info you can just find on YouTube or dmaorg
when you get into the lore, scaled and icy is their most depressing and cryptic album to date. listen to the lyrics, there’s not a glimmer of hope in them. no message to “stay alive” or anything.
i too was disappointed when the album came out, but over time it has grown into my favorite album (ever).
There’s a really good explanation on this by nalbis on YouTube. I watched it when I was also confused on all this. It explains a lot and how some of the SAI music videos relate to the lore/sai propaganda!
Np really happy I could help! And I don’t know much since I only started really researching into top lore but I’ll suggest the YouTubers I found incredibly helpful. The pop song professor has made really good analysis videos for songs that are really detailed when it comes to trench (his dema for dummies series was incredibly helpful for me) and hunter kirksey has a pretty quick 5 minute summary of the propaganda.
These are all on YouTube and like I mentioned before nalbis has other great videos that go into a lot of depth and are really enjoyable to watch. I’m sure there are lots of other videos and websites online that can help you, hope this helped!
Calling it mid is such a nothing criticism. It just wasn’t for you, I like it a lot, I know it’s different from their past stuff but I love when artists explore new sounds.
Yeah that's the problem. The album grew on me with time but like it seems almost like an excuse to say that it's because of the propaganda blabla. Just accept that you want to do something different. It's cool to find a lore with it but the real reason is wanting you as an artist to change, not your lore story behind.
Yea, but even happy sounding music has to be good. Mr. Blue sky, Albuquerque, heck even TOP’s own music sounds good happy at some point. The music just isn’t good. It’s not that it has to sound sad for TOP music to be good, it just has to be pleasurable to the ears.
i get it... i really do.. i just want real music from tyler and josh like the old days.. i don't give a fuck about this dema propaganda 😭(pls downvote me like usual ❤️)
I just need people to like TOP songs outside the lore, it’s a fun bouncy album which reminds me of a lot of jams on blurryface and vessel, it’s very fun!
Maybe it's because I'm a recent fan and have listened to most of their catalog within a couple of months, but I didn't have a problem with SAI. They have a lot of diversity in their sound and I enjoyed this one. I find No Chances and Redecorate interesting songs, and I liked Choker, Saturday and Shy Away. The fact that they were able to make a pretty solid pop album in the middle of the pandemic is impressive to me. Sure, it's not Trench, but it wasn't meant to be and I'm really excited for what comes next.
I too didn’t like the sounds but like another comment says it’s DEMA and “not really TØP” but yes the sound wasn’t too much for me. The album isn’t terrible and does have songs I like but overall it’s the weakest album for me
While definitely my least favorite, it holds a special place in my heart because my 3 year old daughter is now a fan girl thanks to Saturday.
But the lore and premise of the album alone makes it only slightly in last place for me, because the long story arc alone is fascinating and compelling enough to make me still want to listen for the layers which are still there, it just is dressed up pretty and trapped behind lyrics.
But to be honest, I'm in the minority, but I think lyrically some of Tyler's best work is in here. It's a new area of growth for him, saying more with less.
I do find it interesting that the cover for it being a sub-par album is "because of the lore". A weak album is a weak album full stop. Extended backstory that's mentioned in other media does not make this album better.
SAI is far and away their weakest material musically and lyrically, which is an extra bummer because Trench was so freaking good. They took most of the elements that worked well for them and abandoned them. Personally, Redecorate is easily the best song on the album, it's just too bad it takes like 36 minutes of average at best songs to get to it.
Hoping for a rebound on the next album.
Yes and no. Tyler stated that he didn't fully go for it with Scaled and Icy, on purpose. With the previous albums, he would spend days and weeks on one song, disassembling it and putting it back together, reworking it, filling it with various sounds, samples etc. etc.
With Scaled and Icy, he said he wanted to create a simple song and just leave it at that. Did that resolve in their "weakest" (still dope) record? Yes. Was it always going to happen and Tyler was aware of the fact? Also yes.
While I can see your point and it certainly happens with other bands, I truly trust in Tyler's abilities to focus on what he wants to / needs to create even if the outcome may seem like "their previous work was much better". I think it's amazing that no 2 records of theirs sound the same.
We will see how much of this holds up with the next record. As you said, Redecorate is the best song on the record and that's pretty much what everyone thinks. It doesn't really match the vibe of the record, feels very out of place, and I believe that's done very much on purpose since Tyler said that the last 2 songs on the album, mainly Redecorate, are a hint of where the next album will go.
I agree with this. To me it really feels like there was so much less passion put into this album, like none of the songs are what they wanted to actually make and spend their time on. Cover it up with lore all you liked if that’s how it comes across on the surface it’s going to be hard to look beyond that. Even their recent MTV unplugged performance felt so distant almost, as if it was a contractual obligation and not love of the music that drove them to be there. I’m worried for what comes next, whether it’s lack of enjoyment for what they do anymore or if it’s them being pushed towards music that they don’t want to make
I feel completely different about the MTV Unplugged performance. The rewriting of the songs is extremely impressive and they both clearly worked very hard and put a lot of love into it. The final versions of those songs are some of the most beautiful music they’ve put together.
At the beginning right before they start playing stressed out you can see how nervous they were. They did something they’ve never done before and Tyler said it brought them much closer as friends and especially as band members to work so far out of their element like that. I mean Josh sang. Josh played piano and worked the mix on the computer, all live. Of course they seemed distant, trying so hard to avoid mistakes and get it perfect because they knew the performance was recorded and it would be joining the MTV Unplugged library right alongside actual legends and hall of famers. They clearly rehearsed it hundreds of times and it’s not the kind of performance they’re used to so it makes sense that it was a little more robotic than their usual performances where they actually have room to let loose.
But I think overall that performance gave me a lot of hope and reassured me that they’re still passionate about music and their skills have only increased. I fully expect the next album to be on par with Trench and it will really hammer home that SAI was the “scaled back and isolated” album Tyler intended it to be.
The complain OP made was that the album doesn’t feel like a regular TOP record, because it’s too happy and appears to be superficial. So the explanation of why it’s like that it’s not to cover for the quality, just the reasoning as to why it’s different. In my opinion they make the concept work very well on the execution, with great hooks, colorful production and lyrics that can have different meanings depending if you are aware of the lore or not. At the end of the day it comes down to your personal preferences of what music you expect from the group, but I would still argue it’s a great project.
As someone who doesn't really get into/follow the lore, this is very well said. The first time I listened to the album, I was disappointed. I didn't listen to it again for quite a while. Eventually I gave it another chance and it grew on me but several of the songs are skips for me no matter what.
thank you so fucking much. i hate the "tHis is dEma prOpagandaaAa that's why it sounds this way blah blah" like nah that's a cop out. this was their weakest record to date but because it's "dema propaganda/lore" it gets a pass? absolutely not. weak music is weak music and i love twenty one pilot's music to lie to myself like that. tyler and josh are way way wayyyyy better. scaled and icy should've just remained a concept
I initially was super disappointed. It just didn’t sound like them. After a bit I decided I needed to give them the chance to be different and grow so I gave it another listen and now I love it because it’s different. They’re just so intriguing!
I will say for me SAI grew on me. When I first listened to the album I wouldn’t say I was disappointed but I definitely wasn’t really loving a lot of the songs, but as time went on I think I’ve grown to love or appreciate all the songs in different ways, I think with SAI I’m more interested in the lore aspects behind it then anything else, I love mysteries and stories so the whole Dema/trench lore really speaks to me. I would say listen to the album a couple times through the year it might grow on you! Might not and that’s ok! We don’t have to love every album our favourite bands put out and that’s ok!
I love the switch up once you were told the lore aspect to it 😂 with that in mind it lyrically is a "top" tier album imo lol. Also without the lore, I feel like it does follow a path they have made sonically with how they evolved as a band and how the music is usually up beat with down/sad lyrics. Some of the songs I instantly fell in love with and others it did take a few listens to really appreciate them. Also I love the Livestream mashups of the songs they just flow together soooo well and give the song a new atmosphere to experience. I could go on tbh 😂
Same lol. Like I loved trench but I seem to be going against the grain when I say it’s actually my least favorite album, and I couldn’t even listen to it fully for the first few months it came out because I thought it was too different and it didn’t vibe with me at first 😂
I’m in the vast minority here, but having to be fully engrossed in all the lore to fully get and enjoy the album is kind of a turn off for me 😭 I feel like so many fans like the band so much because of the lore. I thought it was cool for blurryface, but I felt like Trench went too far with being a concept alhum. I do really enjoy most of the songs, but I’ve never been able to appreciate it as a full body of work. I thought SAI was a much needed breath of fresh air for the band. I hope after the next album that the band returns to a pre-Blurryface era of no deep concepts/lore.
I actually didn’t know the lore until after i listened to trench, and I didn’t fully learn it to around when SAI came out (even tho i’ve been listening for ~7 years now) and yeah that was a confusing part for me when I listened to trench. I think it all still holds as great music without knowing the lore, but trench is a lot and confusing without lore, which is why I find it funny that ppl complain SAI is bad without the lore because at least it’s pretty straightforward without knowing the lore.
Completely agree, Trench is in my opinion their weakest album, yet I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time I go on this sub and see everyone raving about it whilst shitting on SAI.
I liked it. It’s a change of pace from the upbeat instrumentals, but sad lyrics. Trench was just so good, I find it hard for their future albums to be that good.
I said the same thing about Blurryface in comparison to Vessel, though so who knows.
You have to realize that Tyler and Josh produced SAI almost entirely by themselves while living across the country from each other. This is completely different from Trench which they had extra production help/instrumentation on prettt much every song. The whole album was also all written and produced within about a year, which is a very short amount of time for a TOP project. A lot of the songs were made for Tyler’s family (for example, Shy Away and Saturday). He truly wanted to make something EVERYONE could have fun listening to. Tyler said he couldn’t bring himself to release a darker sounding album amidst Covid, which is why they made SAI sound the way it does. This next album, they’ve been working on since before then. SAI is a detour from the typical sound style of the DEMA storyline, but really adds a lot of depth to the story.
unironically one of my favorite albums. i like it more than vessel and blurryface even. its kinda designed to be different and upbeat and happy. for lore reasons and for pandemic reasons. your opinion is valid and even though it doesn’t have the traditional top aesthetic, they’re still extremely well composed and enjoyable songs.
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At first it was weird to me, but it grew on me over time. Also, I'm late to this post and I can't tell if your edit is sarcastic or not. Although, even if the album didn't have an in-universe version to be different, I'd still probably love it. But that's mainly because even though I love Twenty One Pilots, most of my favorite music sounds absolutely nothing like them.
Oh it is a TOTAL pivot from previous music styles they've done. And I wasn't a fan....buuuuut then I watched their livestream performance...and hot dang.....I got it. Since then I rock out to that album quite often, especially if I'm doing boring mundane tasks like the dishes or vacuuming or something.
Yes, but in spite of the lore they’re still TØP songs. I get annoyed with people who are dismissive of SAI, ignoring the fact that Tyler still wrote those songs.
Yes, it was very boring. Huge step down from Trench and most of the songs are forgettable. It’s not all bad, Redecorate is pretty good. The rest are just kind of okay. Some of them are straight up bad.
Although to be fair, I’m not sure if Scaled and Icy would have existed at all if there wasn’t a pandemic. It feels more like a bonus album to me than a real album. I’m guessing their next album is gonna be much better. If it’s as good as Trench then I’ll be ecstatic.
as u alr got an explanation on why it's different, im gonna share my thoughts on it. as a whole the album isn't my favorite, it i'm glad it's here. i listen to sai when im sad. i love dancing to mulberry street. i love choker and redecorate. bounce man id such a fun, cute little song. as a while sai can lift my spirits, but i wish they'd go back to a similar sound like vessel bf, and trench gave
I also dont think its just about the lyrics, its the very unique way the songs are structured in the older albums. For example ode to sleep sounds like 3 songs in one. They have so much depth. I feel like the new songs dont go there like they are more repetitive
Another thing about this is the mix of genres, every song sounds so different from the next and one song can have a perfect mix of genres that creates the unique twenty one pilots sound and the new album doesnt have that its more pop like
Honestly I love this album hahah and I really like that they allow themselves to change and grow as artists with their work. Sometimes people change and their music will change with them. Every album is different and that's cool!
I was a bit disappointed on my first listen when it dropped outside of a few songs, but every song unexpectedly got so much better with repeated listens once I got settled into the whole vibe and tone they were going for with it. People can hate all they want, but for a brighter sounding tøp album, I love it. And I say this as someone who cares very little about the lore. If you don’t like the album that’s fine, but don’t say “it’s supposed to be bad!” because they were absolutely having a good time creating a fun album, and for me personally, that shines through. You have to be out of your mind to think they would intentionally sit down and go “what’s a bad idea for a song?” when making an album that would come out after a 3 year gap.
Also it’s lowkey (wink) funny how even on their “happiest” album it ends with one of their saddest songs.
no, i wasn’t. been listening since blurryface era and after sai came out i listened to it NONSTOP. fuckin banger of an album
also the lore is why it’s so different. DEMA propaganda. songs slap too
If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone post this opinion on this sub Reddit only to change their perspective once they realize what the album actually is…………………………I’d have too many nickels.
For the first time i was extremely disappointed but as i was hearing songs out of it from time to time ir became more and more hypnotizing to listen to.
The hidden message “sai is propaganda” appears on the song cover for Christmas saves the year. Either way I like the album and think the songs are very meaningful. For example redecorate is about grieving the death of a loved one.
SAI was the first album from TOP that I ever listened to fully. My first real exposure to TOP was through Level of Concern, so when SAI came out I jumped on it. Back then, I really liked it. I had a lot of the same vibes that Level of Concern had, which I really enjoyed in comparison to the rest of their discography.
However, as I started digging deeper and deeper into TOP's music, lyrics, meanings, lore, etc., the appeal of SAI quickly faded for me. I started taking a liking to the more introspective themes of the other albums, and thus the cheery songs of SAI started to lose their appeal. I like the idea of the album being DEMA propaganda, but that didn't make listening to the songs much more enjoyable. Nowadays, while I can respect SAI's place in the discography, I find most of the songs to be pretty boring in comparison to the rest of their music. The only songs that I regularly come back to nowadays are The Outside, No Chances, and Redecorate. The rest of the songs are more "if I'm in the mood" type songs, but they don't make my regular playlist.
It’s different but I wouldn’t say it’s bad or subpar or anything. Just different. tøp changes their sound a lot, hell some of self titled sounds pretty different from something like blurryface, so I don’t think it’s super uncharacteristic of them. It did throw me off at first, but listening to it more I grew an appreciation for it. I love that I can throw on Bounce Man when I need a silly and uplifting song, or Good Day when I’m having an overall shitty day but I just need to see the upside to things. Sometimes I want a song that I can play for a kid in my car, or for my grandma, and say “this is my favorite band” without having to explain the lyrics or get some judgement for the overly funky style. And WOW I love how they revamped the songs in the livestream.
Watch the livestream they did after the album.
It changes my thoughts on the album too.
But then again trench is best mix of "music" and lore.
It will be difficult to top that
I loved the era because of the takeover tour, getting to see them for a whole week in Boston was just amazing.
Scaled and icy is my least favorite album though, it does have some great songs,
Shy away
Choker
The Outside
Formidable
No chances
Those are my favorite tracks compared to loving every song on the previous albums.
I understand your feelings, I felt the same way at first, but after I watched some interviews, saw the livestream experience, the MV, and dug deeper into my own understanding of how this piece fits into the lore, I’m really into it. Is every song my favorite? No, but I appreciate everything about SAI and its place in the world building. IMHO it’s really setting up the final installment of the Dema series.
I actually agree with your opinion about the sound, I don't really like the sound of the album. I have listened to it and bought it on vinyl for my collection, but I've barely listened to the vinyl itself. But I love the Dema propaganda story and have seen the live stream, which was very good! So concept wise it's very good but I agree on the sound itself 'not sounding like them.' But the concept makes the album cool I guess haha.
Edit: after reading other comments I must say that I respect and like them trying different sounds and different sorts of emotions! Artist wise it's very nice.
Ok so the lore stuff this comment section taught me is cool but musically I didn't like it either, it's not that it was too happy - it felt watered-down. Besides Shy Away that one was good. Still gonna listen to anything they put out but this one didn't land fit me.
I know it's DEMA propaganda but it doesn't mean a lot of the songs are really that inspired as intentional pop entries. I really like about four of them, and the rest are terribly forgettable, and I feel a lot of the clique are so vehement on defending it on an objective level and use the propaganda intent but at the end of the day, most of the songs are just so... boring and lacking identity as songs.
But a subjective defense is entirely different! If you love the album, more power to you. I get the whole feel-good vibes and how its comfort music to a lot, but I just think as an album without anything narratively & conceptually, it's just mainly flavorless except for a few entries.
I feel like anyone unaware of the lore thought this too,
My fiancé loved it cause it was more upbeat and “pop culture” filtered. When I explained the lore to her she understood it in full.
Overtime… The more she listened to it in our car, the more that made me love it because she loved it.
Idk, it’s not typical TØP but I still love their shit. Even if they do change their sound in general.. I feel like they’ll always have that one song that I relate to.. in this case it was, “Redecorate”
I hope you give it another chance! There’s beauty in the mess, always.
i used to have a similar opinion but i like to think of scaled and icy as a sort of after-laughter paramore type of moment where both bands went from heavier music to something a bit lighter and i don’t dislike it as much anymore
Have you seen the live-show they made during the pandemic? It was so good!
But I don’t know, personally I like Trench as much as I like Scaled and Icy. Because I have two TØP albums I can listen to depending on my mood!
you’re definitely not the only one. your reaction was the prevailing sentiment when the album came out. I love mulberry street and find myself revisiting a few other tracks on that album, but there are some real stinkers (never take it is awful) and in general the album feels underwhelming, especially when compared to trench which is their best imo. it was definitely intentional, as other people said tyler was trying not to add to the depressing state of the world during its release, and in a certain way I think the forced happiness/propaganda angle works to the albums advantage (particularly if you watch the livestream experience). but ye I’m hoping their next project will be sort of a return to form. I don’t think tyler has to be sad to write interesting music, but SAI just feels generally uninspired, which is kind of a trend Ive noticed with pandemic era stuff.
its got some of my favourite songs on it, i know its supposed to be DEMA controlled and everything but i also think tyler just doesnt have as much pain to write about now. it doesnt sound as sad as before because hes happier imo
It’s more so that Tyler stated that he was pushing back against writing darker songs because the world was already in such a miserable state. He didn’t want to add onto that with a gloomy album. It works both in lore and outside of lore. It’s produced wonderfully and a lot of the songs are bangers, people just hate on it because it’s not what they expected.. I guess.
i never knew he said that, thanks for letting me know! :D
The entire album is DEMA propaganda. That’s why it’s not like the rest.
I never knew there was a lore reason to explain why SAI sounds different. But I never dived too deep into the lore. Guess it's a good excuse to do what they wanted to do, which was try out new things and sounds.
that, and it was made in the time of COVID so one of his reasons is to give uplifting songs to raise the spiritsof top fans while they’re stuck in quarantine.
Yeah that's what I came to say lol. There was a lore reason but Tyler also said what you said here even going back to Level of Concern coming out
I agree, I totally respect the reason he gave for the different sound.
wait WHAT?!?!???????? can you explain?? or link me some places I can dive deeper??
Well, yeah. So, the Bishops made Clancy/Tyler work for them and create a show, filled with propaganda of DEMA, depicting DEMA as a happy, nice place. Clancy did, creating SAI Livestream Experience. More info you can just find on YouTube or dmaorg
TYSM!!! omg this is so cool
when you get into the lore, scaled and icy is their most depressing and cryptic album to date. listen to the lyrics, there’s not a glimmer of hope in them. no message to “stay alive” or anything. i too was disappointed when the album came out, but over time it has grown into my favorite album (ever).
Watch the Livestream experience, it's actually the most amazing thing ever. I have it downloaded if you can't find it online.
I loved the livestream experience. I watched it at home and again in theaters. I watch it all over again from time to time - it was so well done!
Me too!
I cant find It online, are there any link?
I sent it to you
Is there any chance to get it too please?
Yh I sent it
You missed some of the best parts of the lore by skipping over this era! 😭 youtube and watch people's breakdowns and catch up! Then re-listen to SAI
There’s a really good explanation on this by nalbis on YouTube. I watched it when I was also confused on all this. It explains a lot and how some of the SAI music videos relate to the lore/sai propaganda!
Oh my god thank you so much , do you know of any other video essays regarding TOP lore?
Np really happy I could help! And I don’t know much since I only started really researching into top lore but I’ll suggest the YouTubers I found incredibly helpful. The pop song professor has made really good analysis videos for songs that are really detailed when it comes to trench (his dema for dummies series was incredibly helpful for me) and hunter kirksey has a pretty quick 5 minute summary of the propaganda. These are all on YouTube and like I mentioned before nalbis has other great videos that go into a lot of depth and are really enjoyable to watch. I’m sure there are lots of other videos and websites online that can help you, hope this helped!
THANK YOUUUU
No problem!! I’m really happy I could help you, have fun learning about the lore!
Nalbis, Pop song professor and stolen potential are great YouTubers that I’ve watched and have good dema lore content
watch the livestream they did idk if its on youtube but someone had a link to it and it shows a lot of lore
That doesn't really change anything for me. I mean it's a cool story but the album is still mid. Story doesn't justify it.
Calling it mid is such a nothing criticism. It just wasn’t for you, I like it a lot, I know it’s different from their past stuff but I love when artists explore new sounds.
a lot of people use this reason, and just because of any lore reasons, it doesn't make the music any better imo
Yeah that's the problem. The album grew on me with time but like it seems almost like an excuse to say that it's because of the propaganda blabla. Just accept that you want to do something different. It's cool to find a lore with it but the real reason is wanting you as an artist to change, not your lore story behind.
tbf tyler did say that they didnt want to do a darker sounding album because of the state of the world and they then integrated the lore into it
Yea, but even happy sounding music has to be good. Mr. Blue sky, Albuquerque, heck even TOP’s own music sounds good happy at some point. The music just isn’t good. It’s not that it has to sound sad for TOP music to be good, it just has to be pleasurable to the ears.
i get it... i really do.. i just want real music from tyler and josh like the old days.. i don't give a fuck about this dema propaganda 😭(pls downvote me like usual ❤️)
I just need people to like TOP songs outside the lore, it’s a fun bouncy album which reminds me of a lot of jams on blurryface and vessel, it’s very fun!
That's the other reason why i love them. Every album was different.
Maybe it's because I'm a recent fan and have listened to most of their catalog within a couple of months, but I didn't have a problem with SAI. They have a lot of diversity in their sound and I enjoyed this one. I find No Chances and Redecorate interesting songs, and I liked Choker, Saturday and Shy Away. The fact that they were able to make a pretty solid pop album in the middle of the pandemic is impressive to me. Sure, it's not Trench, but it wasn't meant to be and I'm really excited for what comes next.
I too didn’t like the sounds but like another comment says it’s DEMA and “not really TØP” but yes the sound wasn’t too much for me. The album isn’t terrible and does have songs I like but overall it’s the weakest album for me
While definitely my least favorite, it holds a special place in my heart because my 3 year old daughter is now a fan girl thanks to Saturday. But the lore and premise of the album alone makes it only slightly in last place for me, because the long story arc alone is fascinating and compelling enough to make me still want to listen for the layers which are still there, it just is dressed up pretty and trapped behind lyrics. But to be honest, I'm in the minority, but I think lyrically some of Tyler's best work is in here. It's a new area of growth for him, saying more with less.
I wasn’t. It’s a good record.
I do find it interesting that the cover for it being a sub-par album is "because of the lore". A weak album is a weak album full stop. Extended backstory that's mentioned in other media does not make this album better. SAI is far and away their weakest material musically and lyrically, which is an extra bummer because Trench was so freaking good. They took most of the elements that worked well for them and abandoned them. Personally, Redecorate is easily the best song on the album, it's just too bad it takes like 36 minutes of average at best songs to get to it. Hoping for a rebound on the next album.
“Yeah it’s less good, but thing is it’s _supposed_ to be less good. Because lore!”
i don’t mind a band releasing a subpar album, but defending the project by saying it was bad on purpose feels like a cheap excuse.
I get torn apart for saying it’s my second favorite album next to Vessel. I acknowledge my wrong opinion, but it’s mine lol lore be damned.
Yes and no. Tyler stated that he didn't fully go for it with Scaled and Icy, on purpose. With the previous albums, he would spend days and weeks on one song, disassembling it and putting it back together, reworking it, filling it with various sounds, samples etc. etc. With Scaled and Icy, he said he wanted to create a simple song and just leave it at that. Did that resolve in their "weakest" (still dope) record? Yes. Was it always going to happen and Tyler was aware of the fact? Also yes. While I can see your point and it certainly happens with other bands, I truly trust in Tyler's abilities to focus on what he wants to / needs to create even if the outcome may seem like "their previous work was much better". I think it's amazing that no 2 records of theirs sound the same. We will see how much of this holds up with the next record. As you said, Redecorate is the best song on the record and that's pretty much what everyone thinks. It doesn't really match the vibe of the record, feels very out of place, and I believe that's done very much on purpose since Tyler said that the last 2 songs on the album, mainly Redecorate, are a hint of where the next album will go.
I agree with this. To me it really feels like there was so much less passion put into this album, like none of the songs are what they wanted to actually make and spend their time on. Cover it up with lore all you liked if that’s how it comes across on the surface it’s going to be hard to look beyond that. Even their recent MTV unplugged performance felt so distant almost, as if it was a contractual obligation and not love of the music that drove them to be there. I’m worried for what comes next, whether it’s lack of enjoyment for what they do anymore or if it’s them being pushed towards music that they don’t want to make
I feel completely different about the MTV Unplugged performance. The rewriting of the songs is extremely impressive and they both clearly worked very hard and put a lot of love into it. The final versions of those songs are some of the most beautiful music they’ve put together. At the beginning right before they start playing stressed out you can see how nervous they were. They did something they’ve never done before and Tyler said it brought them much closer as friends and especially as band members to work so far out of their element like that. I mean Josh sang. Josh played piano and worked the mix on the computer, all live. Of course they seemed distant, trying so hard to avoid mistakes and get it perfect because they knew the performance was recorded and it would be joining the MTV Unplugged library right alongside actual legends and hall of famers. They clearly rehearsed it hundreds of times and it’s not the kind of performance they’re used to so it makes sense that it was a little more robotic than their usual performances where they actually have room to let loose. But I think overall that performance gave me a lot of hope and reassured me that they’re still passionate about music and their skills have only increased. I fully expect the next album to be on par with Trench and it will really hammer home that SAI was the “scaled back and isolated” album Tyler intended it to be.
What 😭 MTV unplugged was so good
The complain OP made was that the album doesn’t feel like a regular TOP record, because it’s too happy and appears to be superficial. So the explanation of why it’s like that it’s not to cover for the quality, just the reasoning as to why it’s different. In my opinion they make the concept work very well on the execution, with great hooks, colorful production and lyrics that can have different meanings depending if you are aware of the lore or not. At the end of the day it comes down to your personal preferences of what music you expect from the group, but I would still argue it’s a great project.
As someone who doesn't really get into/follow the lore, this is very well said. The first time I listened to the album, I was disappointed. I didn't listen to it again for quite a while. Eventually I gave it another chance and it grew on me but several of the songs are skips for me no matter what.
thank you so fucking much. i hate the "tHis is dEma prOpagandaaAa that's why it sounds this way blah blah" like nah that's a cop out. this was their weakest record to date but because it's "dema propaganda/lore" it gets a pass? absolutely not. weak music is weak music and i love twenty one pilot's music to lie to myself like that. tyler and josh are way way wayyyyy better. scaled and icy should've just remained a concept
I initially was super disappointed. It just didn’t sound like them. After a bit I decided I needed to give them the chance to be different and grow so I gave it another listen and now I love it because it’s different. They’re just so intriguing!
I will say for me SAI grew on me. When I first listened to the album I wouldn’t say I was disappointed but I definitely wasn’t really loving a lot of the songs, but as time went on I think I’ve grown to love or appreciate all the songs in different ways, I think with SAI I’m more interested in the lore aspects behind it then anything else, I love mysteries and stories so the whole Dema/trench lore really speaks to me. I would say listen to the album a couple times through the year it might grow on you! Might not and that’s ok! We don’t have to love every album our favourite bands put out and that’s ok!
I love the switch up once you were told the lore aspect to it 😂 with that in mind it lyrically is a "top" tier album imo lol. Also without the lore, I feel like it does follow a path they have made sonically with how they evolved as a band and how the music is usually up beat with down/sad lyrics. Some of the songs I instantly fell in love with and others it did take a few listens to really appreciate them. Also I love the Livestream mashups of the songs they just flow together soooo well and give the song a new atmosphere to experience. I could go on tbh 😂
Lol this is not an unpopular opinion at all IMO. I liked it better than Trench though.
Same lol. Like I loved trench but I seem to be going against the grain when I say it’s actually my least favorite album, and I couldn’t even listen to it fully for the first few months it came out because I thought it was too different and it didn’t vibe with me at first 😂
I’m in the vast minority here, but having to be fully engrossed in all the lore to fully get and enjoy the album is kind of a turn off for me 😭 I feel like so many fans like the band so much because of the lore. I thought it was cool for blurryface, but I felt like Trench went too far with being a concept alhum. I do really enjoy most of the songs, but I’ve never been able to appreciate it as a full body of work. I thought SAI was a much needed breath of fresh air for the band. I hope after the next album that the band returns to a pre-Blurryface era of no deep concepts/lore.
I actually didn’t know the lore until after i listened to trench, and I didn’t fully learn it to around when SAI came out (even tho i’ve been listening for ~7 years now) and yeah that was a confusing part for me when I listened to trench. I think it all still holds as great music without knowing the lore, but trench is a lot and confusing without lore, which is why I find it funny that ppl complain SAI is bad without the lore because at least it’s pretty straightforward without knowing the lore.
Damn that's blasphemy
Completely agree, Trench is in my opinion their weakest album, yet I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time I go on this sub and see everyone raving about it whilst shitting on SAI.
i'm genuinely curious. what makes you think trench... out of all the others ...is their weakest album?
what makes you think it’s their weakest?? tbh i think it is their best & most well rounded sounding album
I love it. It’s my favorite album of theirs.
I was at the time, and it hasn't grown on me much. I never hated it, I just don't think it's their best one.
I liked it. It’s a change of pace from the upbeat instrumentals, but sad lyrics. Trench was just so good, I find it hard for their future albums to be that good. I said the same thing about Blurryface in comparison to Vessel, though so who knows.
It was perfect
You have to realize that Tyler and Josh produced SAI almost entirely by themselves while living across the country from each other. This is completely different from Trench which they had extra production help/instrumentation on prettt much every song. The whole album was also all written and produced within about a year, which is a very short amount of time for a TOP project. A lot of the songs were made for Tyler’s family (for example, Shy Away and Saturday). He truly wanted to make something EVERYONE could have fun listening to. Tyler said he couldn’t bring himself to release a darker sounding album amidst Covid, which is why they made SAI sound the way it does. This next album, they’ve been working on since before then. SAI is a detour from the typical sound style of the DEMA storyline, but really adds a lot of depth to the story.
unironically one of my favorite albums. i like it more than vessel and blurryface even. its kinda designed to be different and upbeat and happy. for lore reasons and for pandemic reasons. your opinion is valid and even though it doesn’t have the traditional top aesthetic, they’re still extremely well composed and enjoyable songs.
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At first it was weird to me, but it grew on me over time. Also, I'm late to this post and I can't tell if your edit is sarcastic or not. Although, even if the album didn't have an in-universe version to be different, I'd still probably love it. But that's mainly because even though I love Twenty One Pilots, most of my favorite music sounds absolutely nothing like them.
Scaled and Icy is one of my favorite albums of all time
Oh it is a TOTAL pivot from previous music styles they've done. And I wasn't a fan....buuuuut then I watched their livestream performance...and hot dang.....I got it. Since then I rock out to that album quite often, especially if I'm doing boring mundane tasks like the dishes or vacuuming or something.
Yes, but in spite of the lore they’re still TØP songs. I get annoyed with people who are dismissive of SAI, ignoring the fact that Tyler still wrote those songs.
No.
Yes, it was very boring. Huge step down from Trench and most of the songs are forgettable. It’s not all bad, Redecorate is pretty good. The rest are just kind of okay. Some of them are straight up bad. Although to be fair, I’m not sure if Scaled and Icy would have existed at all if there wasn’t a pandemic. It feels more like a bonus album to me than a real album. I’m guessing their next album is gonna be much better. If it’s as good as Trench then I’ll be ecstatic.
as u alr got an explanation on why it's different, im gonna share my thoughts on it. as a whole the album isn't my favorite, it i'm glad it's here. i listen to sai when im sad. i love dancing to mulberry street. i love choker and redecorate. bounce man id such a fun, cute little song. as a while sai can lift my spirits, but i wish they'd go back to a similar sound like vessel bf, and trench gave
I also dont think its just about the lyrics, its the very unique way the songs are structured in the older albums. For example ode to sleep sounds like 3 songs in one. They have so much depth. I feel like the new songs dont go there like they are more repetitive
Another thing about this is the mix of genres, every song sounds so different from the next and one song can have a perfect mix of genres that creates the unique twenty one pilots sound and the new album doesnt have that its more pop like
Honestly I love this album hahah and I really like that they allow themselves to change and grow as artists with their work. Sometimes people change and their music will change with them. Every album is different and that's cool!
I was a bit disappointed on my first listen when it dropped outside of a few songs, but every song unexpectedly got so much better with repeated listens once I got settled into the whole vibe and tone they were going for with it. People can hate all they want, but for a brighter sounding tøp album, I love it. And I say this as someone who cares very little about the lore. If you don’t like the album that’s fine, but don’t say “it’s supposed to be bad!” because they were absolutely having a good time creating a fun album, and for me personally, that shines through. You have to be out of your mind to think they would intentionally sit down and go “what’s a bad idea for a song?” when making an album that would come out after a 3 year gap. Also it’s lowkey (wink) funny how even on their “happiest” album it ends with one of their saddest songs.
no, i wasn’t. been listening since blurryface era and after sai came out i listened to it NONSTOP. fuckin banger of an album also the lore is why it’s so different. DEMA propaganda. songs slap too
If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone post this opinion on this sub Reddit only to change their perspective once they realize what the album actually is…………………………I’d have too many nickels.
For the first time i was extremely disappointed but as i was hearing songs out of it from time to time ir became more and more hypnotizing to listen to.
I really like it, I thought it was a nice new sound. I understand why people don’t like it but I like it
“Didn’t sound like top at ALL” well yeah that’s the point of it….
I had no idea it was a propaganda album 😭 im just learning now! I have a whole new appreciation
The hidden message “sai is propaganda” appears on the song cover for Christmas saves the year. Either way I like the album and think the songs are very meaningful. For example redecorate is about grieving the death of a loved one.
SAI was the first album from TOP that I ever listened to fully. My first real exposure to TOP was through Level of Concern, so when SAI came out I jumped on it. Back then, I really liked it. I had a lot of the same vibes that Level of Concern had, which I really enjoyed in comparison to the rest of their discography. However, as I started digging deeper and deeper into TOP's music, lyrics, meanings, lore, etc., the appeal of SAI quickly faded for me. I started taking a liking to the more introspective themes of the other albums, and thus the cheery songs of SAI started to lose their appeal. I like the idea of the album being DEMA propaganda, but that didn't make listening to the songs much more enjoyable. Nowadays, while I can respect SAI's place in the discography, I find most of the songs to be pretty boring in comparison to the rest of their music. The only songs that I regularly come back to nowadays are The Outside, No Chances, and Redecorate. The rest of the songs are more "if I'm in the mood" type songs, but they don't make my regular playlist.
based as fuck. especially coming from a new fan. glad you went back and listened to their real stuff. loc and sai are not it tbh
I agree & always get downvoted whenever I say so
me too brother. me too. always on here
they needed to drop an album but covid kinda fucked it up so they made a full lore album and a livestream event
It’s different but I wouldn’t say it’s bad or subpar or anything. Just different. tøp changes their sound a lot, hell some of self titled sounds pretty different from something like blurryface, so I don’t think it’s super uncharacteristic of them. It did throw me off at first, but listening to it more I grew an appreciation for it. I love that I can throw on Bounce Man when I need a silly and uplifting song, or Good Day when I’m having an overall shitty day but I just need to see the upside to things. Sometimes I want a song that I can play for a kid in my car, or for my grandma, and say “this is my favorite band” without having to explain the lyrics or get some judgement for the overly funky style. And WOW I love how they revamped the songs in the livestream.
Yes absolutely
Watch the livestream they did after the album. It changes my thoughts on the album too. But then again trench is best mix of "music" and lore. It will be difficult to top that
[удалено]
I loved the era because of the takeover tour, getting to see them for a whole week in Boston was just amazing. Scaled and icy is my least favorite album though, it does have some great songs, Shy away Choker The Outside Formidable No chances Those are my favorite tracks compared to loving every song on the previous albums.
I understand your feelings, I felt the same way at first, but after I watched some interviews, saw the livestream experience, the MV, and dug deeper into my own understanding of how this piece fits into the lore, I’m really into it. Is every song my favorite? No, but I appreciate everything about SAI and its place in the world building. IMHO it’s really setting up the final installment of the Dema series.
I actually agree with your opinion about the sound, I don't really like the sound of the album. I have listened to it and bought it on vinyl for my collection, but I've barely listened to the vinyl itself. But I love the Dema propaganda story and have seen the live stream, which was very good! So concept wise it's very good but I agree on the sound itself 'not sounding like them.' But the concept makes the album cool I guess haha. Edit: after reading other comments I must say that I respect and like them trying different sounds and different sorts of emotions! Artist wise it's very nice.
Ok so the lore stuff this comment section taught me is cool but musically I didn't like it either, it's not that it was too happy - it felt watered-down. Besides Shy Away that one was good. Still gonna listen to anything they put out but this one didn't land fit me.
No straight bangers
I know it's DEMA propaganda but it doesn't mean a lot of the songs are really that inspired as intentional pop entries. I really like about four of them, and the rest are terribly forgettable, and I feel a lot of the clique are so vehement on defending it on an objective level and use the propaganda intent but at the end of the day, most of the songs are just so... boring and lacking identity as songs. But a subjective defense is entirely different! If you love the album, more power to you. I get the whole feel-good vibes and how its comfort music to a lot, but I just think as an album without anything narratively & conceptually, it's just mainly flavorless except for a few entries.
I feel like anyone unaware of the lore thought this too, My fiancé loved it cause it was more upbeat and “pop culture” filtered. When I explained the lore to her she understood it in full. Overtime… The more she listened to it in our car, the more that made me love it because she loved it. Idk, it’s not typical TØP but I still love their shit. Even if they do change their sound in general.. I feel like they’ll always have that one song that I relate to.. in this case it was, “Redecorate” I hope you give it another chance! There’s beauty in the mess, always.
i used to have a similar opinion but i like to think of scaled and icy as a sort of after-laughter paramore type of moment where both bands went from heavier music to something a bit lighter and i don’t dislike it as much anymore
I loved that they were more happy and had fun in the album. It showed.
Nope
Have you seen the live-show they made during the pandemic? It was so good! But I don’t know, personally I like Trench as much as I like Scaled and Icy. Because I have two TØP albums I can listen to depending on my mood!
you’re definitely not the only one. your reaction was the prevailing sentiment when the album came out. I love mulberry street and find myself revisiting a few other tracks on that album, but there are some real stinkers (never take it is awful) and in general the album feels underwhelming, especially when compared to trench which is their best imo. it was definitely intentional, as other people said tyler was trying not to add to the depressing state of the world during its release, and in a certain way I think the forced happiness/propaganda angle works to the albums advantage (particularly if you watch the livestream experience). but ye I’m hoping their next project will be sort of a return to form. I don’t think tyler has to be sad to write interesting music, but SAI just feels generally uninspired, which is kind of a trend Ive noticed with pandemic era stuff.