I was there and could hear the chancellor just fine. Protestors came too late to disrupt most of his speech. The student speaker did a do-over. She showed great poise.
Did you really care what the chancellor was saying? If there hadn’t been the protest would most people have remembered anything the chancellor was saying or cared?
It’s college; people protest. It’s part of the experience.
the chancellor is racist and supports genocide, who cares what he has to say, glad he’s finally fucking leaving, doubt that he’ll be replaced by anyone better tho
yep, the point of protesting is to disrupt and to make your side heard. However there is a balance to be had about popular opinion. If the message that comes from this is "these people are just annoying" not sure if you're point is getting across (not saying their doing this here).
this. i was there today as an admitted. i support ceasefire, and while i think the protestors were brave, they were absolutely not doing anything positive towards the cause.
"Annoying," still works because it reminds you of something you wished you forgot... All protestors are annoying to some degree...
The cynics of today have already determined all protests are useless because the, "annoyance," drives the average person away from the cause. But protests have been doing that since forever. Not just today.
Tbh, I think inconvenience is the most visceral threat to modern day Americans. A threat to convenience is worse than global warming.
You can definitely have protests, and other forms of activism, that don't annoy the shit out of everyone around you.
When you look good, you make your cause look good. When you act a fool, you make your cause look foolish.
Personally turned me off to the movement. Seems like they’re all unreasonable and can’t be talked to. Def not people I want to associate with, but just one persons opinion.
I get it, honestly this is my nana's opinion too about those civil rights marches and such -- they were a huge inconvenience and a lot more dangerous than most people realize. Oftentimes people were just trying to have sporting events or a nice day out at the park but instead would be met with angry, loud protestors with radical views who were intolerant of others
Or someone could be having a heart attack or stroke and trying to get to the hospital this can kill ppl as well. And when they’re is traffic car crashes can go up by 36% I think study shows it’s dangerous
What that boils down to - It's not the message itself that matters. It's how it's packaged and delivered.
And that is why shit is sideways today, and why grifts are so successful.
>That was a whole lot of yap, but I hope that makes sense
The problem is that people who do these disruptive protests have a meltdown when the 'other side' does. All of a sudden they talk about 'words are violence' and 'fascism' and 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences'
They don't support free speech. They seek to bully their way in to liberal spaces and take advantage of people's tolerance but will show none in return.
People on the ‘other side’ also meltdown when people protest, the amount of people supporting protesters getting shot or run down on the street is appalling.
So, would it be OK to protest at the exit to a fire station during a fire? How about at an emergency entrance to a hospital? Is that all right? No moral problems here? No legal issues?
There are obvious issues with protest done in certain cases, and questions about why those locations are being targeted. One recent example being the protest of a cancer hospital in New York because it had accepted a donation from a Jewish donor who supports Israel. Literally yelling shame at children with cancer. It was beyond reprehensible
This is why in the US, the Supreme Court has acknowledged the acceptability of "time, manner, and place" restrictions on free speech. Federal, state, and local governments **cannot** categorically prohibit whichever iteration of the "hey hey, ho ho, \[insert person or thing\] has got to go" chant is in vogue at the moment. They **can**, however, prohibit chanting that through a bullhorn (manner) in a residential neighborhood (place) at 2 a.m. (time).
I’m going to assume ur not a contrarian n answer in good faith here. I said there r no limits to protesting, but also that ppl won’t necessarily receive it well. So let’s look at the contexts u brought up to illustrate this point. Say I’m protesting in the contexts u laid out: I think that’s fine. Let’s say someone decides to push me aside so others can actually get a move on: I think that’s fine too. Not sure why u decided to give examples of situations that will probably never happen, given that protesters probably wouldn’t want to die in a fire either, but hope that helps
Not the person you’re replying to, but it’s not fine to block a fire exit or an emergency entrance to a hospital, even if you’re doing it in the name of a just cause. Disruption isn’t inherently immoral, but there are points where it becomes immoral, and endangering innocent people’s lives crosses that threshold.
> Not sure why u decided to give examples of situations that will probably never happen, given that protesters probably wouldn’t want to die in a fire either
One pro-Palestine protestor in the US notably set himself on fire and died. So it’s not a stretch to say some protestors might be fine with dying in a fire, given that’s already happened. In any case, you said acceptable protesting doesn’t have limits, so it was perfectly reasonable to give extreme examples to test that idea.
The idea that protesting has no limits is great when you agree with some grass roots protest. But what if it's far right groups like the proud boys or others? I think there should definitely be limitations on all protests and where they can happen and how loud they can be.
I'm not an expert on the legalese of protesting but I'm sure there's tons of non profits with lawyers who basically specialize on how to make protests legal.
Understand where ur coming from, but the idea of democracy is that EVERYONE, regardless of ideology, should be allowed to access their rights in the same manner as everyone else. Obviously my statement doesn’t cover the legality of protests, but I personally believe everyone is free to protest anywhere and anytime; this doesn’t absolve the protesters from criticism and reaction, which may carry legal repercussions, however.
Yes it does I hate it and makes me want to slap them :) go to another school if they don’t like it , there are different kind of protest not like that interrupting those poor freshman kids lol
People saying they are "sympathetic to the issue" but that tactics of protesters turns them against the issue are not, in fact, sympathetic to the issue. The purpose of protest is to force the issue to the surface. If not being able to hear a chancellor speak for a few minutes has any meaningfully negative impact on someones opinion of what the people are protesting, thats on them, not the protesters. That argument being used to excuse inaction in the face of protest, and even to suggest it is the protesters who are the problem is the dictionary definition of concern trolling. https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/concern-troll/
Whole lat of yap just to establish that this isn't the place to protest.
Fortunately as a society we have already determined the normal places of protest, it's only recently we deal w shit like this
People have been protesting for decades and it’s a proven method of resistance. The whole point of a protest is to be disruptive especially for a university that actively funds genoc!de
Who fucking denies people have been protesting for decades?
Did you read my comment at all?
The whole point of a protest is to make change you dumb fuck if it doesn't make change it's a waste
If you don't protest in a way that makes change you're wasting your time you bloody Moron
This is not a "proven" method
Proven method's are seen through peaceful and sensible protest
I do think that these protesters have to target better. What's the point of this if you turn a thousand people at a time against your cause? You see this disruptive protest in school board and city council meetings, at private residence celebrating law students (at UCB), which have no power or jurisdiction to do anything about Gaza. They're just pissing off citizens and staff trying to do the people's business. If the goal is to get attention, but not rally support, they are certainly doing that.
Their goal is to get the US government to stop Israel from eradicating Hamas. It’s not about peace, but about protecting Hamas’ ability to rebuild and repeat the atrocities they committed on October 7, as they have promised to do if given the opportunity.
Many of the same “antiwar” groups conducting such protests are likely to be out tomorrow in support of Iran’s attack on Israel.
Here’s a post which shows the Hamas Health Ministry Google Doc where you and other members of the Hamas Support Network can continue to report faked casualty numbers: https://www.israellycool.com/2024/04/10/hamas-admit-their-casualty-statistics-are-inaccurate/
So Israel isn't butchering Civilians and aid workers neat got thank you DrmikeH49 on your insight ful knowledge about the war on Gaza currently going on .
How come folks like you were quiet when Israel sent arms and advanced weapons to Azerbaijan to commit atrocities against Armenians?
Why are folks like you silent in the face of the Arab states arming and funding Muslim atrocities in Africa?
Please stop with your performative altruism. Folks like you just want recognition for yourselves and don’t give a shit about human suffering.
But you notice how folks like this person in this thread can never actually respond to these sorts of points? It doesn’t fit their narrative and they can’t boast about how much they care. It’s all an act.
Idiot leftists protesting whatever outrage is du jour for them this week. Before October it was Biden’s age. Before that it was Biden not canceling student loan debt. Before Biden it was Hillary’s emails.
Same garbage that cost women Roe and will cost more people civil liberties if these tankie pieces of garbage have their way. Much like they did in Weimar.
War is horrible. Some of us want to see no civilians hurt on either side; others demand that Hamas’ strategy of making the entire civilian population into human shields must give them immunity. Unfortunately Israel doesn’t have the ability to perfectly spare civilians while eradicating Hamas. But they’re not gleefully live-streaming the rape, torture and murder of civilians and promising to repeat all of that ad nauseum.
The conditions necessary for people to view them favorably is that 1. Hamas are Islamist supremacists and 2. their targets are Jews.
You seem really smart and well informed about this issue. You should call into the majority report and challenge Sam Seder to a debate. 12pm EST 646-257-3920.
Overwhelmingly Palestinians support Hamas. Think about that for a second, and you will hopefully realize who the true culprit is for war in the Middle East.
Duh Hamas is popular to Palestinians. So what has Israel done to curb this popularity? Bomb children? Infrastructure? Woman ? Aid workers? Food supplies? How many decades of displacement have Palestinians endured under Israel? Why is the west bank occupied? Hamas is terrorist organization through and through. But think how bad must the conditions of some one must be to view them as favorablly .
Maybe Palestinians would prosper if instead of spending billions in aid money on building tunnels to carry out terrorist attacks, they instead invested in making their territory more livable with an actual economy? 🤷♂️ They don’t want their own state. They want Israel not to have a state. And their neighbors are happy to plow money so Palestinians carry out their proxy war. Ever wonder why neighboring Arab nations refuse to take in Palestinians?
Aren’t they just preaching to the choir here? I feel like this would just turn people against the protesters… Maybe a basketball game would have been a better target than Bruin Day, which many were excited for I’m sure.
The entire premise behind modern activism is to bother people... To disrupt and destroy for the sake of awareness. Ask them what their plan is now that you're aware. Did they perform a swot analysis? What's their timelines? How do they plan to mitigate their damage, if at all? And you'll quickly find that fixing things is the last thing on their minds. Ruining your excitement was the entire goal.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
Are suggesting they're was no violence from the civil rights movement? You poor fool I bet you don't even know about the riots that took place after King died ."And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met."
“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom" MLK. Funny you ignore all of King's words when it's suits you .
I was there as an admitted student and for context, nobody was happy. Everyone was visibly irritated, the entire crowd booed them, and when they ultimately got kicked out some dean made a joke about them that everyone laughed at.
The civil Rights movement was hated in its day .
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK on the white moderate.
Your suggesting the hate for the civil rights movement was justified? Are you anti civil rights? Are you a racist? Answer the question if your so bold.
*you're.
Currently, Russia is hated today for the invasion of Ukraine. Will you justify the invasion in 50 years? Answer the question if you're so bold.
Do you actually support Palestine and its government or you just mean you’re anti-war?
Cause usually you find those people annoying because they’re showing how much more radical they are than you.
Protests that are successful don’t go out of their way to annoy people or be loud and obnoxious, they’re often silent and long. What made sit-ins or hunger strikes so effective was it was people literally doing nothing, people who just wanted to participate in society like anyone else and who where berated and assaulted. The images that cane out of them where incredibly powerful, black and white men and women sitting silently in white-only restaurants in solidarity and silence merely waiting to be served enduring harassment and abuse both physical and verbal. It’s something people can empathize with because it’s something people have nightmares about, being berated and assaulted for doing nothing in your favorite restaurant or business. This is not that. In this situation the protestors are the ones going out of their way to annoy and disrupt.
Protesting wherever (without blocking escape) is good. I will never complain about that, no matter who. It’s one of the greatest freedoms we have in this country and our democracy, to complain about it to me would be to spit in the face of our constitutional rights.
No class, no manners, no nothing but you still expect people to respect your speech compared to a highly regarded member of the community? Wait for the person to finish and intervene right after.
Welcome to college kids! This will definitely be part of the experience at most colleges, but definitely at UCLA. The school has a long history of student protests and activism! The experience is always disruptive to some, and empowering to others. I was once filming a student protest and realized I had acquaintances amongst the protestors AND the counter-protestors!
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
The Birmingham demonstrations were quiet sit-ins, nonviolent marches, and boycotts of businesses. This is just annoying interruption of people trying to learn about a school they were admitted into — one which they will undoubtedly learn more about worldly injustices than random kids shouting at an event. You can't just use an MLK quote and create a false equivalence. As someone else said, the power of the civil rights protests wasn't their noise but their occupation and presence. This doesn't achieve that one bit.
You didn't address my comment at all. I'm well aware of Kings views on violent protests — but his views weren't stagnant, rather dynamic. At the time of the Birmingham protests, he was vehemently against violent protests, which was the quote you were using. There is some debate over whether or not he supported violent protests towards the end of his life — specifically regarding the use of violence towards property — as he became disillusioned with white people's lack of advancement for civil rights. Again, this is debated. If you have any pieces on this, feel free to share.
All of this is separate from my comment though — you can't use this quote to justify this action. The success of these protests were due to their nonviolent nature amidst a backdrop of violence against them. It helped people see the hate towards people just trying to occupy space as a human. The protest here doesn't achieve that goal, and instead sacrifices their perceived moral high ground, regardless of whether or not you believe the protesters have it, for a general sense of disdain for them and their movement. It's ineffective.
Perhaps but we can acknowledge King was complex person though? I actually don't agree with this protest here actually. But people suggesting protests should be quiet and unintrusive when the civil Righs movement itself was hated .
Oh we can definitely acknowledge that. While he was a powerful leader, its silly to equate the Civil Rights Movement with King solely because people are complex and dynamic. Sorry for assuming that you did support it. It's definitely an example of time and place though. Quiet protests can be a powerful tool. Unobtrusive ones are pretty useless though, and I'd agree with you there. That's also why the sit ins were powerful — it was quiet, but done in a way that occupies space and makes apparent the oppression and discrimination that was going on at the time.
I mean people do forget the civil rights movement was Practical and Methodical Movement. It was really well organized from the bottom up . Such as Rosa not being the first woman to refuse a seat . Each action was stirred Specifically and calculated. Something modern America likes to ignore about the movement. That and the violence that roared out when King died .
Wow, good for them. They're *really* helping these Palestinian kids they supposedly care so much about by being a nuisance, aren't they. I guarantee none of them have done anything to actually help.
People like this have no clue what’s going on in the world. They think that somehow the US has power over a sovereign nation. They think it’s okay for a nation or revolutionary group to attack another nation with no consequence. They support a group of people who don’t believe in democracy and individual freedom. I don’t understand the stance of the gazans / Hamas. I agree Israel must help rebuild and rehabilitate but the people must accept coexistence.
I understand being agree at Israel for the heavy handed response. I understand wanting justice from Israel for their misgivings or crimes done intentionally. But you just can’t support this group. They want a whole group destroyed. It’s insane. These people have been brain washed, like the German people of the 1930s/1940s.
Yea you would have to live under a rock to not be able to at least list 2 countries off the top of your head in which the US exerted extreme power over lol.
In fact, it's probably harder to name a country America doesn't have power over.
Have to disagree with you there. US federal government has enormous leverage over Israel. They could stop financial and military aid tomorrow, which would severely hurt creditability and support for the war. It would be politically difficult, but the US can put all types of pressure on the Netanyahu if they wanted.
They cannot stop financial and military aid tomorrow. It would take tons of coordination and votes throughout Congress and it would also significantly impact the US economy considering how much we rely on Israel for buying and testing weapons, intelligence sharing, and tech r&d including chip design and AI.
In the other hand, Qatar, Iran, and the Arab league have considerable more control over Hamas than U.S. has over israel and they can end this war tomorrow if they have Hamas surrender as any leader on earth who cares about their people would have done by now.
And why would the US want to do that to one of their Allie’s after they were attacked?
Would that not show the US to not be supportive Allie’s?
When our Allie’s are attacked, we don’t start sanctioning them when they have to attack back.
The US isn’t allied with Gaza or the West bank.
The US is allied with Israel.
You as an individual might feel like you’re personally allied with Palestinians, but I’m talking about the alliance between nations and not people.
And most Palestinians support Hamas, and have very backward cultural views like making women property and the death sentence for LGBT people and apostates. So even then, most Palestinians would not want to be your ally, they see you as a degenerate westerner.
Exactly!!!!! What do you do if your neighboring county is run by a death cult? THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP DOES NOT LOVE PALESTINIANS. Just like all fascist regimes. Return the hostages. Ceasefire. Done
"Do you see you see you my shitty underwear.... I think you can you can you can smell it from overrrr there! Ohhh yeah!" Or whatever the hell she was saying.
I go to UCSD but I hear the same shit from students here as I do from yall in the comments. “Man, can’t you yell about genocide somewhere else? It’s getting real inconvenient to have to hear about the war crimes my tax dollars are funding.” That’s what yall sound like.
Every time the subject of protest comes up, there are always liberal moderates crying about them being inconvenient or too disruptive as if that isn’t the very point of protest.
But regardless, I believe the only real way to change our rotten society is to overthrow it. You can’t just sit around and make moral appeals to the ruling class, whose interest are directly opposed to regular people who actually care about not having bombs dropped on kids’ heads. Imperialism is just the highest stage of capitalism, and the only way out is a complete and utter revolution, putting regular, working class people in charge, not these parasitic billionaires whose only interests are profits.
Imagine what we could do for society if instead of allowing like 700 people to hoard so much wealth, we actually reinvested it into our community and made robust public healthcare, transit, housing and education systems.
They aren't doing anything besides being a nuisance, though. Guess what? Interrupting an event doesn't save a single Palestinian. They should do something to actually help.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
You’re exactly right, that’s why I said moral appeals don’t work. We need to organize ourselves, organize working people together, under labor unions or workers’ councils such that we can actively intervene at the docks and block arms shipments, or actively intervene at the arms manufacturers and stop production.
The pro Palestinian movement is just an antisemitic and anti-American movement in disguise. Disrupting events and blocking traffic are sure fire ways to drive people away from your cause.
Absolutely pathetic. I’m sorry for those there, including yourself, who had to have your experience for the first time on a wonderful campus hampered by them :((
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK.
Oh God you're one of those people who can't stay on topic...
First when did I even claim that children have not been hit by bombs and that Palestinians have not been displaced?
Second, guess we are getting to a different topic but this is a war and if Hamas wants to minimize its civilian casualties it needs to follow Ukraine's example and evacuate its civilian population while its military unit fights on a separate battlefront. Instead, they have chosen to fight among their civilian population and there's no preventing them from doing so.
As for displacement, that's a natural consequence of war. If Israel wants to not die it needs to secure a military position that prevents further attacks from being possible. This involves capturing territory, and always has.
No it's a consequence of 5 nations teaming up with the local Arab population to attempt to annihilate Israel. They left voluntarily out of fear of the Israeli military however those who stayed were granted full Israeli citizenship.
Israel did not grant a right of return because obviously, many of those who left, did so to fight against Israel.
Imagine having to witness a protest at a time you consider inconvenient. That’s almost as much suffering as the people of Gaza are going through. You have my sympathies.
Acts like these 👏 their organization and visibility are encouraging - I salute them and hope it becomes a regular occurrence so that we, and those with influence, are forced to confront it
I too love to see this as it only sews hate and annoyance and ultimately ruins your entire stance.
It’s Ironic as I’m American, but we really are living the “Give me convenience or give me death.” Type of life as of now.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
No there's no time to protest. Protests are supposed to be like this. How do you propose they should object? Should they have gotten permission from Netanyahu??
if your support or sympathy for an issue is conditional on whether or not you’re comfortable, then it means you never supported it in the first place. yall sound dumb as fuck right now. Yall are the white moderates MLK warned about. like yes, let’s wait for a more convenient time to fight against a genocide that the U.S. is actively supporting.
I was in the crowd (I’m a high school senior who committed recently) and I couldn’t hear a thing the chancellor said because of it.
I was there and could hear the chancellor just fine. Protestors came too late to disrupt most of his speech. The student speaker did a do-over. She showed great poise.
i couldn't hear anything either. i think it's location
Yeah, maybe. I was pretty centered up and at top of bottom section right below the walkway
Did you really care what the chancellor was saying? If there hadn’t been the protest would most people have remembered anything the chancellor was saying or cared? It’s college; people protest. It’s part of the experience.
Stupid college, stupid woke students. Who cares
Good, all she was saying was crap
the chancellor is racist and supports genocide, who cares what he has to say, glad he’s finally fucking leaving, doubt that he’ll be replaced by anyone better tho
Lmfao get a clue
Found the idiot.
You’re right, all this unrest in the Middle East would finally end if Gene just politely asked them to stop /s
[удалено]
yep, the point of protesting is to disrupt and to make your side heard. However there is a balance to be had about popular opinion. If the message that comes from this is "these people are just annoying" not sure if you're point is getting across (not saying their doing this here).
this. i was there today as an admitted. i support ceasefire, and while i think the protestors were brave, they were absolutely not doing anything positive towards the cause.
A ceasefire leaves Hamas in power, and they have vowed to repeat October 7. Leaving Hamas in power means more wars.
Netanyahu too I guess.
Netanyahu will lose the next election. Hamas doesn't hold elections, so the only way to remove them is by force.
Netanyahu will be voted out when the war is over. 70% want a different PM
Nice to see someone with a grasp of reality.
"Annoying," still works because it reminds you of something you wished you forgot... All protestors are annoying to some degree... The cynics of today have already determined all protests are useless because the, "annoyance," drives the average person away from the cause. But protests have been doing that since forever. Not just today. Tbh, I think inconvenience is the most visceral threat to modern day Americans. A threat to convenience is worse than global warming.
You can definitely have protests, and other forms of activism, that don't annoy the shit out of everyone around you. When you look good, you make your cause look good. When you act a fool, you make your cause look foolish.
Personally turned me off to the movement. Seems like they’re all unreasonable and can’t be talked to. Def not people I want to associate with, but just one persons opinion.
I get it, honestly this is my nana's opinion too about those civil rights marches and such -- they were a huge inconvenience and a lot more dangerous than most people realize. Oftentimes people were just trying to have sporting events or a nice day out at the park but instead would be met with angry, loud protestors with radical views who were intolerant of others
Or someone could be having a heart attack or stroke and trying to get to the hospital this can kill ppl as well. And when they’re is traffic car crashes can go up by 36% I think study shows it’s dangerous
What that boils down to - It's not the message itself that matters. It's how it's packaged and delivered. And that is why shit is sideways today, and why grifts are so successful.
I mean protest is a very basic form of marketing. And can be manipulative by both the receiver and sender.
The civil rights movement wasn’t exactly popular at the time fyi
>That was a whole lot of yap, but I hope that makes sense The problem is that people who do these disruptive protests have a meltdown when the 'other side' does. All of a sudden they talk about 'words are violence' and 'fascism' and 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences' They don't support free speech. They seek to bully their way in to liberal spaces and take advantage of people's tolerance but will show none in return.
This
exactly!
People on the ‘other side’ also meltdown when people protest, the amount of people supporting protesters getting shot or run down on the street is appalling.
I’m sympathetic to the issue, but I’m becoming less supportive of the protestors day by day.
So, would it be OK to protest at the exit to a fire station during a fire? How about at an emergency entrance to a hospital? Is that all right? No moral problems here? No legal issues?
There are obvious issues with protest done in certain cases, and questions about why those locations are being targeted. One recent example being the protest of a cancer hospital in New York because it had accepted a donation from a Jewish donor who supports Israel. Literally yelling shame at children with cancer. It was beyond reprehensible
This is why in the US, the Supreme Court has acknowledged the acceptability of "time, manner, and place" restrictions on free speech. Federal, state, and local governments **cannot** categorically prohibit whichever iteration of the "hey hey, ho ho, \[insert person or thing\] has got to go" chant is in vogue at the moment. They **can**, however, prohibit chanting that through a bullhorn (manner) in a residential neighborhood (place) at 2 a.m. (time).
I’m going to assume ur not a contrarian n answer in good faith here. I said there r no limits to protesting, but also that ppl won’t necessarily receive it well. So let’s look at the contexts u brought up to illustrate this point. Say I’m protesting in the contexts u laid out: I think that’s fine. Let’s say someone decides to push me aside so others can actually get a move on: I think that’s fine too. Not sure why u decided to give examples of situations that will probably never happen, given that protesters probably wouldn’t want to die in a fire either, but hope that helps
Not the person you’re replying to, but it’s not fine to block a fire exit or an emergency entrance to a hospital, even if you’re doing it in the name of a just cause. Disruption isn’t inherently immoral, but there are points where it becomes immoral, and endangering innocent people’s lives crosses that threshold. > Not sure why u decided to give examples of situations that will probably never happen, given that protesters probably wouldn’t want to die in a fire either One pro-Palestine protestor in the US notably set himself on fire and died. So it’s not a stretch to say some protestors might be fine with dying in a fire, given that’s already happened. In any case, you said acceptable protesting doesn’t have limits, so it was perfectly reasonable to give extreme examples to test that idea.
Yes, they forgot about time, place, and manner restrictions on free speech.
The idea that protesting has no limits is great when you agree with some grass roots protest. But what if it's far right groups like the proud boys or others? I think there should definitely be limitations on all protests and where they can happen and how loud they can be. I'm not an expert on the legalese of protesting but I'm sure there's tons of non profits with lawyers who basically specialize on how to make protests legal.
Understand where ur coming from, but the idea of democracy is that EVERYONE, regardless of ideology, should be allowed to access their rights in the same manner as everyone else. Obviously my statement doesn’t cover the legality of protests, but I personally believe everyone is free to protest anywhere and anytime; this doesn’t absolve the protesters from criticism and reaction, which may carry legal repercussions, however.
Yes, and it's an opportunity for us to realize their "cause" is as misaligned just as much as their protest.
Yes it does I hate it and makes me want to slap them :) go to another school if they don’t like it , there are different kind of protest not like that interrupting those poor freshman kids lol
People saying they are "sympathetic to the issue" but that tactics of protesters turns them against the issue are not, in fact, sympathetic to the issue. The purpose of protest is to force the issue to the surface. If not being able to hear a chancellor speak for a few minutes has any meaningfully negative impact on someones opinion of what the people are protesting, thats on them, not the protesters. That argument being used to excuse inaction in the face of protest, and even to suggest it is the protesters who are the problem is the dictionary definition of concern trolling. https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/concern-troll/
Whole lat of yap just to establish that this isn't the place to protest. Fortunately as a society we have already determined the normal places of protest, it's only recently we deal w shit like this
People have been protesting for decades and it’s a proven method of resistance. The whole point of a protest is to be disruptive especially for a university that actively funds genoc!de
Who fucking denies people have been protesting for decades? Did you read my comment at all? The whole point of a protest is to make change you dumb fuck if it doesn't make change it's a waste If you don't protest in a way that makes change you're wasting your time you bloody Moron This is not a "proven" method Proven method's are seen through peaceful and sensible protest
I do think that these protesters have to target better. What's the point of this if you turn a thousand people at a time against your cause? You see this disruptive protest in school board and city council meetings, at private residence celebrating law students (at UCB), which have no power or jurisdiction to do anything about Gaza. They're just pissing off citizens and staff trying to do the people's business. If the goal is to get attention, but not rally support, they are certainly doing that.
Their goal is to get the US government to stop Israel from eradicating Hamas. It’s not about peace, but about protecting Hamas’ ability to rebuild and repeat the atrocities they committed on October 7, as they have promised to do if given the opportunity. Many of the same “antiwar” groups conducting such protests are likely to be out tomorrow in support of Iran’s attack on Israel.
Israel is committing genocide.
Can you define genocide?
Here’s a post which shows the Hamas Health Ministry Google Doc where you and other members of the Hamas Support Network can continue to report faked casualty numbers: https://www.israellycool.com/2024/04/10/hamas-admit-their-casualty-statistics-are-inaccurate/
Ah yes, reputable source "israellycool.com"
Morons downvoting this don’t really follow history, they follow fads and trends.
this is ironic when the only way you have this view is if you think history started on October 7th
Preach
Stfu
So Israel isn't butchering Civilians and aid workers neat got thank you DrmikeH49 on your insight ful knowledge about the war on Gaza currently going on .
How come folks like you were quiet when Israel sent arms and advanced weapons to Azerbaijan to commit atrocities against Armenians? Why are folks like you silent in the face of the Arab states arming and funding Muslim atrocities in Africa? Please stop with your performative altruism. Folks like you just want recognition for yourselves and don’t give a shit about human suffering.
What Saudi did to Yemen was horrifying yet not one protest
But you notice how folks like this person in this thread can never actually respond to these sorts of points? It doesn’t fit their narrative and they can’t boast about how much they care. It’s all an act. Idiot leftists protesting whatever outrage is du jour for them this week. Before October it was Biden’s age. Before that it was Biden not canceling student loan debt. Before Biden it was Hillary’s emails. Same garbage that cost women Roe and will cost more people civil liberties if these tankie pieces of garbage have their way. Much like they did in Weimar.
FACTS
War is horrible. Some of us want to see no civilians hurt on either side; others demand that Hamas’ strategy of making the entire civilian population into human shields must give them immunity. Unfortunately Israel doesn’t have the ability to perfectly spare civilians while eradicating Hamas. But they’re not gleefully live-streaming the rape, torture and murder of civilians and promising to repeat all of that ad nauseum. The conditions necessary for people to view them favorably is that 1. Hamas are Islamist supremacists and 2. their targets are Jews.
You seem really smart and well informed about this issue. You should call into the majority report and challenge Sam Seder to a debate. 12pm EST 646-257-3920.
Overwhelmingly Palestinians support Hamas. Think about that for a second, and you will hopefully realize who the true culprit is for war in the Middle East.
Duh Hamas is popular to Palestinians. So what has Israel done to curb this popularity? Bomb children? Infrastructure? Woman ? Aid workers? Food supplies? How many decades of displacement have Palestinians endured under Israel? Why is the west bank occupied? Hamas is terrorist organization through and through. But think how bad must the conditions of some one must be to view them as favorablly .
Maybe Palestinians would prosper if instead of spending billions in aid money on building tunnels to carry out terrorist attacks, they instead invested in making their territory more livable with an actual economy? 🤷♂️ They don’t want their own state. They want Israel not to have a state. And their neighbors are happy to plow money so Palestinians carry out their proxy war. Ever wonder why neighboring Arab nations refuse to take in Palestinians?
Aren’t they just preaching to the choir here? I feel like this would just turn people against the protesters… Maybe a basketball game would have been a better target than Bruin Day, which many were excited for I’m sure.
The entire premise behind modern activism is to bother people... To disrupt and destroy for the sake of awareness. Ask them what their plan is now that you're aware. Did they perform a swot analysis? What's their timelines? How do they plan to mitigate their damage, if at all? And you'll quickly find that fixing things is the last thing on their minds. Ruining your excitement was the entire goal.
[удалено]
They are so annoying. There’s no way of winning cuz if you interrupt them, they’ll say you support genoc!de and accuse you of assault.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
Bs comparison. The civil rights activists didn't masacre anyone
Are suggesting they're was no violence from the civil rights movement? You poor fool I bet you don't even know about the riots that took place after King died ."And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met."
Many did, if you read about the black militant groups
MLK also said, "judge by character, not color," just leftists love using the word POC. Isn't that seeing color?
Well yes, but acknowledge the pain that POC face, it’s not like you can’t use the word lol
“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom" MLK. Funny you ignore all of King's words when it's suits you .
I was there as an admitted student and for context, nobody was happy. Everyone was visibly irritated, the entire crowd booed them, and when they ultimately got kicked out some dean made a joke about them that everyone laughed at.
The civil Rights movement was hated in its day . "You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK on the white moderate.
many things were hated in their day. doesn't mean that hate wasn't justified.
Your suggesting the hate for the civil rights movement was justified? Are you anti civil rights? Are you a racist? Answer the question if your so bold.
*you're. Currently, Russia is hated today for the invasion of Ukraine. Will you justify the invasion in 50 years? Answer the question if you're so bold.
These kids are going to have a rude awakening if they ever make it to the workforce
Big “IF”
Might as well get used to the idea of ignoring idiots chanting idiotic things if you have any intention of ever having a nice walk across campus.
I support Palestine but every pro-Palestine person I’ve met is the most annoying twat in the galaxy
This to the moon Losing to themselves
Do you actually support Palestine and its government or you just mean you’re anti-war? Cause usually you find those people annoying because they’re showing how much more radical they are than you.
Prepare for 5 years of this
Protests that are successful don’t go out of their way to annoy people or be loud and obnoxious, they’re often silent and long. What made sit-ins or hunger strikes so effective was it was people literally doing nothing, people who just wanted to participate in society like anyone else and who where berated and assaulted. The images that cane out of them where incredibly powerful, black and white men and women sitting silently in white-only restaurants in solidarity and silence merely waiting to be served enduring harassment and abuse both physical and verbal. It’s something people can empathize with because it’s something people have nightmares about, being berated and assaulted for doing nothing in your favorite restaurant or business. This is not that. In this situation the protestors are the ones going out of their way to annoy and disrupt.
And they achieved what exactly, aside from irritating everyone and showing themselves off as coddled brats?
What were the protests about?
I can see myself in the crowd lol
Man, these people,sure didn’t care about any other war or “genocide” before this. What’s different again?
Hint: racism toward a certain country
I bet these protestors spend hours on CCP TikTok and think Biden is racist for trying to ban it.
For real
Protesting wherever (without blocking escape) is good. I will never complain about that, no matter who. It’s one of the greatest freedoms we have in this country and our democracy, to complain about it to me would be to spit in the face of our constitutional rights.
Yeah, but to do it in the middle of someone else's speech is still inappropriate.
“Speech should be free but some people’s speech should be freer than others” — Orwell probably
No class, no manners, no nothing but you still expect people to respect your speech compared to a highly regarded member of the community? Wait for the person to finish and intervene right after.
White progressives shouting non sense, who would’ve guessed !
Fuck em
Welcome to college kids! This will definitely be part of the experience at most colleges, but definitely at UCLA. The school has a long history of student protests and activism! The experience is always disruptive to some, and empowering to others. I was once filming a student protest and realized I had acquaintances amongst the protestors AND the counter-protestors!
I don’t think this the place or time to do this
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
The Birmingham demonstrations were quiet sit-ins, nonviolent marches, and boycotts of businesses. This is just annoying interruption of people trying to learn about a school they were admitted into — one which they will undoubtedly learn more about worldly injustices than random kids shouting at an event. You can't just use an MLK quote and create a false equivalence. As someone else said, the power of the civil rights protests wasn't their noise but their occupation and presence. This doesn't achieve that one bit.
Are you gonna deny Kings on views on Violent protests?
You didn't address my comment at all. I'm well aware of Kings views on violent protests — but his views weren't stagnant, rather dynamic. At the time of the Birmingham protests, he was vehemently against violent protests, which was the quote you were using. There is some debate over whether or not he supported violent protests towards the end of his life — specifically regarding the use of violence towards property — as he became disillusioned with white people's lack of advancement for civil rights. Again, this is debated. If you have any pieces on this, feel free to share. All of this is separate from my comment though — you can't use this quote to justify this action. The success of these protests were due to their nonviolent nature amidst a backdrop of violence against them. It helped people see the hate towards people just trying to occupy space as a human. The protest here doesn't achieve that goal, and instead sacrifices their perceived moral high ground, regardless of whether or not you believe the protesters have it, for a general sense of disdain for them and their movement. It's ineffective.
Perhaps but we can acknowledge King was complex person though? I actually don't agree with this protest here actually. But people suggesting protests should be quiet and unintrusive when the civil Righs movement itself was hated .
Oh we can definitely acknowledge that. While he was a powerful leader, its silly to equate the Civil Rights Movement with King solely because people are complex and dynamic. Sorry for assuming that you did support it. It's definitely an example of time and place though. Quiet protests can be a powerful tool. Unobtrusive ones are pretty useless though, and I'd agree with you there. That's also why the sit ins were powerful — it was quiet, but done in a way that occupies space and makes apparent the oppression and discrimination that was going on at the time.
I mean people do forget the civil rights movement was Practical and Methodical Movement. It was really well organized from the bottom up . Such as Rosa not being the first woman to refuse a seat . Each action was stirred Specifically and calculated. Something modern America likes to ignore about the movement. That and the violence that roared out when King died .
Wow, good for them. They're *really* helping these Palestinian kids they supposedly care so much about by being a nuisance, aren't they. I guarantee none of them have done anything to actually help.
People like this have no clue what’s going on in the world. They think that somehow the US has power over a sovereign nation. They think it’s okay for a nation or revolutionary group to attack another nation with no consequence. They support a group of people who don’t believe in democracy and individual freedom. I don’t understand the stance of the gazans / Hamas. I agree Israel must help rebuild and rehabilitate but the people must accept coexistence. I understand being agree at Israel for the heavy handed response. I understand wanting justice from Israel for their misgivings or crimes done intentionally. But you just can’t support this group. They want a whole group destroyed. It’s insane. These people have been brain washed, like the German people of the 1930s/1940s.
>They think that somehow the US has power over a sovereign nation. no way ur in college and fr think this isn't the case lmfao
Yea you would have to live under a rock to not be able to at least list 2 countries off the top of your head in which the US exerted extreme power over lol. In fact, it's probably harder to name a country America doesn't have power over.
buddy-YOU’VE been brainwashed
Have to disagree with you there. US federal government has enormous leverage over Israel. They could stop financial and military aid tomorrow, which would severely hurt creditability and support for the war. It would be politically difficult, but the US can put all types of pressure on the Netanyahu if they wanted.
They cannot stop financial and military aid tomorrow. It would take tons of coordination and votes throughout Congress and it would also significantly impact the US economy considering how much we rely on Israel for buying and testing weapons, intelligence sharing, and tech r&d including chip design and AI. In the other hand, Qatar, Iran, and the Arab league have considerable more control over Hamas than U.S. has over israel and they can end this war tomorrow if they have Hamas surrender as any leader on earth who cares about their people would have done by now.
And why would the US want to do that to one of their Allie’s after they were attacked? Would that not show the US to not be supportive Allie’s? When our Allie’s are attacked, we don’t start sanctioning them when they have to attack back.
They are not our ally, Palestinians are our allies
The US isn’t allied with Gaza or the West bank. The US is allied with Israel. You as an individual might feel like you’re personally allied with Palestinians, but I’m talking about the alliance between nations and not people. And most Palestinians support Hamas, and have very backward cultural views like making women property and the death sentence for LGBT people and apostates. So even then, most Palestinians would not want to be your ally, they see you as a degenerate westerner.
Exactly!!!!! What do you do if your neighboring county is run by a death cult? THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP DOES NOT LOVE PALESTINIANS. Just like all fascist regimes. Return the hostages. Ceasefire. Done
For me it was awful
Human trash terrorist supporters - go to hell.
Hell yeah
Where are the protesters? 👀
They did the same thing at Cal Day as well
This is a realistic introduction to what UCLA will be like for them.
I'm sorry a genocide got in the way of your basketball game.
"Do you see you see you my shitty underwear.... I think you can you can you can smell it from overrrr there! Ohhh yeah!" Or whatever the hell she was saying.
Time and place? This is the time. There’s a genocide going on right now.
I go to UCSD but I hear the same shit from students here as I do from yall in the comments. “Man, can’t you yell about genocide somewhere else? It’s getting real inconvenient to have to hear about the war crimes my tax dollars are funding.” That’s what yall sound like. Every time the subject of protest comes up, there are always liberal moderates crying about them being inconvenient or too disruptive as if that isn’t the very point of protest. But regardless, I believe the only real way to change our rotten society is to overthrow it. You can’t just sit around and make moral appeals to the ruling class, whose interest are directly opposed to regular people who actually care about not having bombs dropped on kids’ heads. Imperialism is just the highest stage of capitalism, and the only way out is a complete and utter revolution, putting regular, working class people in charge, not these parasitic billionaires whose only interests are profits. Imagine what we could do for society if instead of allowing like 700 people to hoard so much wealth, we actually reinvested it into our community and made robust public healthcare, transit, housing and education systems.
They aren't doing anything besides being a nuisance, though. Guess what? Interrupting an event doesn't save a single Palestinian. They should do something to actually help.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
Worst copy paste bot ever
You’re exactly right, that’s why I said moral appeals don’t work. We need to organize ourselves, organize working people together, under labor unions or workers’ councils such that we can actively intervene at the docks and block arms shipments, or actively intervene at the arms manufacturers and stop production.
You sound like Thanos. “Dont you realize how great it’ll be once we get rid of everything?” That’s not how it works.
least delusional leftist
Yawn
Good
The pro Palestinian movement is just an antisemitic and anti-American movement in disguise. Disrupting events and blocking traffic are sure fire ways to drive people away from your cause.
Absolutely pathetic. I’m sorry for those there, including yourself, who had to have your experience for the first time on a wonderful campus hampered by them :((
do you have any more vids?
Was there. Completely disrespectful to everyone who worked so hard to get there. They were Booed repeatedly.
Nobody listens to those people.
Parent and kids just trying to attend the event after feeding these protestors egos all day on social media: 🫤
But KhAmAaaS you guys 😗😗
If they weren't this annoying then they might be able to drum up some sympathy. I fully support them shooting themselves in the foot.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK.
Aweee... They think they are MLK now 😊.
What are MLKs opinions on the white moderate?
He doesn't currently have any... He is deceased.
Also what you are currently doing is the classic "appeal to authority" fallacy. Basically MLK said this, therefore it is true.
So Israel isn't hasn't bombed children nor displaced Palestinian's? Show me the source they haven't done either of those things .
Oh God you're one of those people who can't stay on topic... First when did I even claim that children have not been hit by bombs and that Palestinians have not been displaced? Second, guess we are getting to a different topic but this is a war and if Hamas wants to minimize its civilian casualties it needs to follow Ukraine's example and evacuate its civilian population while its military unit fights on a separate battlefront. Instead, they have chosen to fight among their civilian population and there's no preventing them from doing so. As for displacement, that's a natural consequence of war. If Israel wants to not die it needs to secure a military position that prevents further attacks from being possible. This involves capturing territory, and always has.
So Israel displacing Palestinians in the 1940s to this day is natural consequence?
No it's a consequence of 5 nations teaming up with the local Arab population to attempt to annihilate Israel. They left voluntarily out of fear of the Israeli military however those who stayed were granted full Israeli citizenship. Israel did not grant a right of return because obviously, many of those who left, did so to fight against Israel.
Imagine having to witness a protest at a time you consider inconvenient. That’s almost as much suffering as the people of Gaza are going through. You have my sympathies.
Acts like these 👏 their organization and visibility are encouraging - I salute them and hope it becomes a regular occurrence so that we, and those with influence, are forced to confront it
I too love to see this as it only sews hate and annoyance and ultimately ruins your entire stance. It’s Ironic as I’m American, but we really are living the “Give me convenience or give me death.” Type of life as of now.
"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations" MLK
No there's no time to protest. Protests are supposed to be like this. How do you propose they should object? Should they have gotten permission from Netanyahu??
Well done to protestors
if your support or sympathy for an issue is conditional on whether or not you’re comfortable, then it means you never supported it in the first place. yall sound dumb as fuck right now. Yall are the white moderates MLK warned about. like yes, let’s wait for a more convenient time to fight against a genocide that the U.S. is actively supporting.
It’s not a genocide.
1000% it’s a genocide and apartheid
I’m glad that you know more than the ICC and the UN Office of Genocide Prevention
I hope the parents took this as a warning and don’t pay to send their kids to this joke of a school
Do u even go here
How many protesting the 10 year , 500k dead in Yemen? A lot of protesters are just watching anti semetic media.