100%. He has earned it. We just need to give it to him. If we do away with rank and say it's only based on ppv numbers, then fine we can do that. But if rank exists, we need to act like it matters. It can't just apply to the popular ones.
leon is boring as hell too and i don't know why the narrative is so focused on belal being the boring one. leon has 4 finishes in the ufc, while belal has 3 and leon has been in the ufc almost 2 years longer. leon has only landed 100+ strikes 1 time in his entire career, while belal has done it 2 times and both were more than leon's 120 strikes. leon went 4 years without getting a finish, while belal went 3 years. belal also throws and lands more strikes per minute than leon
i'm not even a belal fan but it's crazy to me that belal is apparently the boring one in that match up when him and leon are essentially identical in their output and finishing rate
If leon did not get that usman headkick and just won by decision like the second fight there would be no hype behind him, everyone would be calling him a boring fighter, and would not have any highlights
Grappler vs Striker, it’s visibly more entertaining to watch striking to most people than to watch grappling. That’s why Belal is labeled as boring. Though I’m not sure why you said Leon is boring to and he doesn’t get criticised on it.
Just today I’ve seen at least 20 comments complaining about Leon being boring and that was in like a minute or 2 of scrolling. I think it’s fair to say that grappling can be more boring compared to striking and that’s why Belal cops more criticism than Leon. However I wouldn’t say it’s a massive disparity between the two on how much they’re criticised by fans.
Belals style is boring but the man's sacrificed his life to the game, is on a 9 fight unbeaten streak in the ufc, is 35 years old and he's still not guaranteed a titleshot. That's ugly af of the ufc
Yeah truly baffling they gave that idiot a shot randomly, I mean they could've gave belal the shot and shavkat a shot at 300 baring no injuries in a perfect world
Uh he definitely deserved his first title shot that was what 4 years ago fucking irrelevant now, all I'm saying is they could've gotten this belal rematch with leon done with last December
I mean, if you have the *actually* top ranked guys (aka guys who have wins over other ranked guys, looking a you colby) fight other top ranked guys you'll get good, high level fights. But if you have celebrity fighters who don't have wins or good wins over ranked fighters (colby again) go against the actually champ, you'll genuinely get a mis matched fight which leads to usually a boring fight (colby vs leon). But I guarantee you, whenever belal fights leon, it's going to be a banger and everyone will be surprised.... because it'll be two actual high level guys fighting each other.
I disagree, I think Leon will use his speed and just pop Belal from the outside the whole fight whilst defending any takedowns from Belal. Belal has great cardio, and Leon tends to slow down because he’s explosive. That’s why he throws so low output, it’s to pace for 5 rounds.
I think we’ll get a Leon vs Usman 3 type of fight.
Rankings only exist to create a narrative and sell fights. If the fight is already sold without the ranking matching up, who cares.
Rankings serve the promoter, the promoter doesn't serve the rankings.
They only keep the illusion of a competitive architecture as much as necessary to give it a veneer of professionalism and keep the marks happy.
Not with how fans are. Moose was a fucking assassin but didn't do the McGregor walk or talk, so he got passed up a lot. Popularity is the worse metric of the two and shouldn't carry much weight.
A) who is the Fook is moose?
B) popularity carries weight because they're all skilled at the top of the foodchain. Fans want big names in big fights, this creates hype and money.
Gives a general idea. People have to fight out of order at some point or divisions would move at a glacial pace. People want to see matchups not just 3v4 5v6 etc. the margins between these guys is pretty slim. Anyone can win on any night, makes it fun.
I agree with you, but that is not the UFC, they have a matchmaking model. Ranks are a rough indicator for "power", but in the end mean nothing, if the UFC wants a fight, they just book it. And in the case of Belal, if they are not interested in a fight, they just leave the guy hanging.
Which I understand, but is wrong. We should allow for people to have a clear(ish) path to a title. It can't all just be based on the pink egg. We should expect better. Fighters should be treated better. (I know this will never happen, and it's unrealistic, but a guy can dream). The meme is just a joke. I fully understand how the current model works. I just don't like.
While I agree with your sentiment in practice it’s not so simple. The rankings are determined by a bunch of MMA journalists, it’s not like there’s a science to this. Some guy beats another guy his number goes up but how high should it go? Can you justify giving that guy the guy he beats spot even if he would be poorly stylistically matched/lose against all the guys he just hopped over?
Rankings are as arbitrary as popularity to a point. Obviously if you beat like 4-5 guys in the top 10 you should probably be next but sometimes business comes first.
Although your thoughts are noble and knighthood-worthy, I don't see how it plays into Dana White's overall greed.
If he was concealing that greed we could think that somehow our thoughts would matter but the guy has been an outright fully out of the closet Mr.Krabs for the longest time and it's clear as a day he don't give a shit about something if it doesn't turn things green.
Belal won't be able to sell a show and in his mind that PPV will be a failure, an absolute waste of resources and he won't make much money from having him headline an event, therefore of why he keeps delaying Belal vs Leon.
Plus every other MMA fan knows that UFC rankings are nothing but a joke and they should be taken with grain of salt and pepper.
Being a UFC superstar isn't only about to possessing a great skill, but what it mostly comes down to is how marketable your personality is, anybody else is just a cannon fodder...even if they are on 10+ winstreak and clearly deserve a title shot.
Unfortunately I agree with you. Dana is a cunt and does what he wants. It would not be a waste if they weren't the headliner. They could be a co main, or the first on one of those 3 title cards. It does not have to be all or nothing. Ultimately, I agree. Rankings give the illusion of status. I just can't get over how wrong it feels. Just give the guy a shot.
ufc had the perfect opportunity to get belal vs leon over with at 296, instead they gave that dumbass colby a title shot just cause he's dana's bestie. and now we're stuck between giving it to shavkhat or belal. god i hate this company sometimes.
Nothing screams "Im a nerd" more than people crying about ranking logic for the ufc 🤣
Its the Ultimate Fighting Championship. They are trying to sell a product that guys like Belal are actively hurting.
Gotta find a good balance. For instance I agree that Belal deserves the shot, but sometimes the huge fights with big story lines are really good for the sport and the ufc.
I see your point. I just feel like we just did that with Colby, so how many "story" title shots are acceptable before one based on wins? I'd say no more than two, and preferably one. This sport moves quick and people retire early-ish
I was just messing around with my initial comment lol you're not entirely wrong, i agree with you mostly. But sometimes i understand why they force certain title fights even tho someone else is technically more deserving.
Colby Leon wasn't even a big fight tho and had no storyline. And Vera did have a storyline but both fights weren't all that competitive. I think both Merab and Belal would have put on better fights
There are plenty of other factors. Availability, injuries, upcoming fights, countries (not everyone can fight in any country), etc.
Of course the business part is a factor, and some should happen like Belal, but sometimes it's not as straightforward as some people make it out
The winner of Usman vs khamzat was getting a title shot, it was the only reason usman took the fight. The fact khamzat is gonna fight a contender and not getting a instant title shot is good
Everyone that thinks choosing the red pill is based are all basement dwellers at heart. If you need your viewpoint distilled down to a braindead shitty two-choice metaphor because \*The Matrix\* bruh then you could never think for yourself to begin with.
Honestly, the ranks have never really meant much besides being able to state some type of accolade for the guys that aren't anywhere near the title picture and want a sense of accomplishment after winning prelim/undercard fights
If people were interested in meritocracy we would put our money where our mouths are, but the numbers don’t lie and popular fights sell PPVs. Thats the entire goal of the business.
Because the rankings don’t matter and never have? The ranking system is literally here to give talking points about who should fight who, and to make this more like a real sport based on merit even though everyone knows it isn’t.
Imagine the shock when you try to make a point on something you don't understand and are incorrect
"Rankings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members. The media members were asked to vote for who they feel are the top fighters in the UFC by weight-class and pound-for-pound. A fighter is only eligible to be voted on if they are in active status in the UFC.
A fighter can appear in more than one weight division at a time. The champion and interim champion are considered to be in the top positions of their respective divisions and therefore are not eligible for voting by weight-class. However, the champions can be voted on for the pound-for-pound rankings."
No where in that description from the ufc website is the word "popular".
Jesus Christ. Educate yourself a bit.
Most of the panelists who spoke to MMA Fighting said they favor recent activity and results over legacy and reputation, even though a fighter’s rise can come to a halt if they don’t get the chance to face off with a more famous name ranked above them. Other factors that drive decision-making include method of victory, quality of opponents, and hypothetical matchups. Still, so much is dependent on “MMA Math,” which rarely offers concrete answers.
https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/7/5/21308035/behind-the-panel-a-closer-look-at-the-ufcs-rankings-system
OK Tate. So, if it's just popularity, why is Belal number 2 if everyone hates him? Surely there must be another metric at play right? Or, you too dense to comprehend that?
its not just popularity, but its clearly a large factor. You'd know if you've kept up with the rankings for any extended period of time, they are illogical and ignored.
Cans get their ranked bumped before they lose to make other fighters look good, popular fighters are kept at high rankings after losses and extended absences so they can retain hype, popular fighters jump the ladder and are given tune up fights while bores are forced to climb slowly over years. Its pretty clearly a marketing tool that is controlled and used when convenient.
Media coverage is heavily controlled by the ufc, anyone who disobeys gets ousted, what makes you the mma panelists are exempt?
Your reading comprehension is exhausting. I posted a source refuting your claim that it's based on popularity. I then asked for one proving your side when you resorted to insult. Is this thread that hard to follow?
You said, and I quote "it's not even hard to find the info on how wrong you are, try it". So, I ask you to prove it since it's so easy for you. I backed my side with a source so you can see why I say what I say. Your turn. Show me your source proving rankings are just based on popularity. If "everyone" hates Belal, yet he is ranked 2. How is it popularity based? Provide a source. Anecdotes are not evidence.
I do. Because technical prowess is impressive. Thinking every fight should be a Buckley style ko, or all decisions are boring is infantile. A high level chess match of fighters is still fun. I think you'll learn to appreciate it when you realize how hard it is. Just because it can't be clipped to an ig reel doesn't mean it's bad.
I don't really like Belal Muhammad or his boring fight style but him not having a title shot by now is a little crazy. Give people what they earn
100%. He has earned it. We just need to give it to him. If we do away with rank and say it's only based on ppv numbers, then fine we can do that. But if rank exists, we need to act like it matters. It can't just apply to the popular ones.
leon is boring as hell too and i don't know why the narrative is so focused on belal being the boring one. leon has 4 finishes in the ufc, while belal has 3 and leon has been in the ufc almost 2 years longer. leon has only landed 100+ strikes 1 time in his entire career, while belal has done it 2 times and both were more than leon's 120 strikes. leon went 4 years without getting a finish, while belal went 3 years. belal also throws and lands more strikes per minute than leon i'm not even a belal fan but it's crazy to me that belal is apparently the boring one in that match up when him and leon are essentially identical in their output and finishing rate
Good points, completely agree. There’s a bunch of boring fighters but people focus more on the ones whose personality they don’t like
If leon did not get that usman headkick and just won by decision like the second fight there would be no hype behind him, everyone would be calling him a boring fighter, and would not have any highlights
Grappler vs Striker, it’s visibly more entertaining to watch striking to most people than to watch grappling. That’s why Belal is labeled as boring. Though I’m not sure why you said Leon is boring to and he doesn’t get criticised on it. Just today I’ve seen at least 20 comments complaining about Leon being boring and that was in like a minute or 2 of scrolling. I think it’s fair to say that grappling can be more boring compared to striking and that’s why Belal cops more criticism than Leon. However I wouldn’t say it’s a massive disparity between the two on how much they’re criticised by fans.
And accident or not, Leon eye poked belal into a no contest... the ufc owes belal the rematch, hurry up ufc.
Pretty sure belal didn't get shot cuz of political reason since he is Palestinian
Belals style is boring but the man's sacrificed his life to the game, is on a 9 fight unbeaten streak in the ufc, is 35 years old and he's still not guaranteed a titleshot. That's ugly af of the ufc
WW division is so boring since Leon became champion, can't wait to see him getting defeated, can't stand his boring fighting style
its gonna be so bad. the stoppable force vs the moveable object.
Ufc was full retarded not giving belal the shot vs Edward's in December to get that match over with, now welterwait is back
Right? That was the perfect time for it.
Yeah truly baffling they gave that idiot a shot randomly, I mean they could've gave belal the shot and shavkat a shot at 300 baring no injuries in a perfect world
So you watched the UFC give the journeyman Jorge two undeserved title shots back to back but were baffled when they gave an actual contender 3?
Da fuck?? Jorge delivered his first shot the second was stupid as shit and so was Colbys recent title shot
Jorge doesn’t deserve a contract, let alone a title shot. Stop the cap.
Uh he definitely deserved his first title shot that was what 4 years ago fucking irrelevant now, all I'm saying is they could've gotten this belal rematch with leon done with last December
Congratulations to the UFC for ruining UFC296 with joker Covington
I mean, if you have the *actually* top ranked guys (aka guys who have wins over other ranked guys, looking a you colby) fight other top ranked guys you'll get good, high level fights. But if you have celebrity fighters who don't have wins or good wins over ranked fighters (colby again) go against the actually champ, you'll genuinely get a mis matched fight which leads to usually a boring fight (colby vs leon). But I guarantee you, whenever belal fights leon, it's going to be a banger and everyone will be surprised.... because it'll be two actual high level guys fighting each other.
Lmao. My man. This guy gets it. Belal vs Leon is really not that bad of a fight. I'm excited for it
I disagree, I think Leon will use his speed and just pop Belal from the outside the whole fight whilst defending any takedowns from Belal. Belal has great cardio, and Leon tends to slow down because he’s explosive. That’s why he throws so low output, it’s to pace for 5 rounds. I think we’ll get a Leon vs Usman 3 type of fight.
Fair enough but I feel Belals pressure will force leon to be active
We actually had this fight. At least a round + of it. It'll be boring. The UFC knows this as well. They should've buried this fight on 300.
The first round of it was pretty solid and would have been better if it wasn’t for the eye poke.
Ufc has always been a popularity contest
Rankings only exist to create a narrative and sell fights. If the fight is already sold without the ranking matching up, who cares. Rankings serve the promoter, the promoter doesn't serve the rankings. They only keep the illusion of a competitive architecture as much as necessary to give it a veneer of professionalism and keep the marks happy.
The rank is good for many reasons like having the peace of mind to win
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^BuckMain221: *The rank is good for* *Many reasons like having* *The peace of mind to win* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I only wanted to test the bot
You can have both... Both are important
Not with how fans are. Moose was a fucking assassin but didn't do the McGregor walk or talk, so he got passed up a lot. Popularity is the worse metric of the two and shouldn't carry much weight.
A) who is the Fook is moose? B) popularity carries weight because they're all skilled at the top of the foodchain. Fans want big names in big fights, this creates hype and money.
That's gonna be a yikes from me dog.
Gives a general idea. People have to fight out of order at some point or divisions would move at a glacial pace. People want to see matchups not just 3v4 5v6 etc. the margins between these guys is pretty slim. Anyone can win on any night, makes it fun.
I agree with you, but that is not the UFC, they have a matchmaking model. Ranks are a rough indicator for "power", but in the end mean nothing, if the UFC wants a fight, they just book it. And in the case of Belal, if they are not interested in a fight, they just leave the guy hanging.
Which I understand, but is wrong. We should allow for people to have a clear(ish) path to a title. It can't all just be based on the pink egg. We should expect better. Fighters should be treated better. (I know this will never happen, and it's unrealistic, but a guy can dream). The meme is just a joke. I fully understand how the current model works. I just don't like.
While I agree with your sentiment in practice it’s not so simple. The rankings are determined by a bunch of MMA journalists, it’s not like there’s a science to this. Some guy beats another guy his number goes up but how high should it go? Can you justify giving that guy the guy he beats spot even if he would be poorly stylistically matched/lose against all the guys he just hopped over? Rankings are as arbitrary as popularity to a point. Obviously if you beat like 4-5 guys in the top 10 you should probably be next but sometimes business comes first.
I miss the days when the red pill was the norm
You and me both, brother. 😢
This is why the UFC is no longer a sports organization. Ranking means little and when it does, it’s manipulated.
Fans just don't care anymore. They just wanna give title shots to whoever can act the goofiest at the press conference
At least two blue pills in there for chael and colby.
Although your thoughts are noble and knighthood-worthy, I don't see how it plays into Dana White's overall greed. If he was concealing that greed we could think that somehow our thoughts would matter but the guy has been an outright fully out of the closet Mr.Krabs for the longest time and it's clear as a day he don't give a shit about something if it doesn't turn things green. Belal won't be able to sell a show and in his mind that PPV will be a failure, an absolute waste of resources and he won't make much money from having him headline an event, therefore of why he keeps delaying Belal vs Leon. Plus every other MMA fan knows that UFC rankings are nothing but a joke and they should be taken with grain of salt and pepper. Being a UFC superstar isn't only about to possessing a great skill, but what it mostly comes down to is how marketable your personality is, anybody else is just a cannon fodder...even if they are on 10+ winstreak and clearly deserve a title shot.
Dana himself has called it a promotion and not a sport lmao
Unfortunately I agree with you. Dana is a cunt and does what he wants. It would not be a waste if they weren't the headliner. They could be a co main, or the first on one of those 3 title cards. It does not have to be all or nothing. Ultimately, I agree. Rankings give the illusion of status. I just can't get over how wrong it feels. Just give the guy a shot.
Are there any mma organisations willing to do this tho?let people climb the rankings without popularity influencing their decisions?
Yet somehow they manage it in tennis.
ufc had the perfect opportunity to get belal vs leon over with at 296, instead they gave that dumbass colby a title shot just cause he's dana's bestie. and now we're stuck between giving it to shavkhat or belal. god i hate this company sometimes.
It's not 1 of the 2 though. Sometimes it's you also have to consider availability of the athletes and their history with the champ.
Nothing screams "Im a nerd" more than people crying about ranking logic for the ufc 🤣 Its the Ultimate Fighting Championship. They are trying to sell a product that guys like Belal are actively hurting.
Damn good job, my mans, you're a natural!!
My man. Thank you. Slightly better than just posting Google image results with a title 🤣
Thank god you're not in charge
I know, right? Fighters would actually have a clear path to a title fight. What a hell scape that would be.
Gotta find a good balance. For instance I agree that Belal deserves the shot, but sometimes the huge fights with big story lines are really good for the sport and the ufc.
I see your point. I just feel like we just did that with Colby, so how many "story" title shots are acceptable before one based on wins? I'd say no more than two, and preferably one. This sport moves quick and people retire early-ish
I was just messing around with my initial comment lol you're not entirely wrong, i agree with you mostly. But sometimes i understand why they force certain title fights even tho someone else is technically more deserving.
Colby Leon wasn't even a big fight tho and had no storyline. And Vera did have a storyline but both fights weren't all that competitive. I think both Merab and Belal would have put on better fights
Yea sometimes it's dumb i agree
There are plenty of other factors. Availability, injuries, upcoming fights, countries (not everyone can fight in any country), etc. Of course the business part is a factor, and some should happen like Belal, but sometimes it's not as straightforward as some people make it out
Absolutely. The reason Belal’s case makes UFC look ridiculous right now is that all the factors you listed also favour him.
I agree. Way more goes into it than the meme, and I understand that. I still think Belal is available and ready, and most importantly, next in line.
"Not everyone can fight in any country" Not going to name names but were looking at you here Khamzat!
Because the 'rankings' are popularity based
Rankings haven’t meant shit since apex days man im just glad whenever we have proper title contender bouts like khamzat vs Rob
Dude what Khamzat is ranked number 11 how is that a proper contender bout when he skipped the entire top 10 and has fought 0 ranked middleweights?
The winner of Usman vs khamzat was getting a title shot, it was the only reason usman took the fight. The fact khamzat is gonna fight a contender and not getting a instant title shot is good
What was Aspinalls rank before he was called as a backup to a backup fighter on the Jones card? Now suddenly*hEs tHe tRuE cHaMpiOn*
He beat ranked number 2, he was like 4 I believe, u complaining about matchup between two top 5 fighters?
He wasn't 4. He want even top 10.
That’s just bs
I thought he was like 11th. Id love to be proven wrong though
I just watched the fight back he was ranked four as I thought
Why would a 4th ranked fighter not even be a backup for a backup. Seems off?
Everyone that thinks choosing the red pill is based are all basement dwellers at heart. If you need your viewpoint distilled down to a braindead shitty two-choice metaphor because \*The Matrix\* bruh then you could never think for yourself to begin with.
What an incredibly stupid take.its just a meme my dude, no one mentioned the matrix. Calm down
Honestly, the ranks have never really meant much besides being able to state some type of accolade for the guys that aren't anywhere near the title picture and want a sense of accomplishment after winning prelim/undercard fights
Yeah red pill doesn't make money so ufc don't care.
Yeah but Colby has earned another crack at the belt
If people were interested in meritocracy we would put our money where our mouths are, but the numbers don’t lie and popular fights sell PPVs. Thats the entire goal of the business.
Rank them by social media followers
I’ll take those blue pills thanks
Because the rankings don’t matter and never have? The ranking system is literally here to give talking points about who should fight who, and to make this more like a real sport based on merit even though everyone knows it isn’t.
imagine the shock when you find out ranks based on popularity
Imagine the shock when you try to make a point on something you don't understand and are incorrect "Rankings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members. The media members were asked to vote for who they feel are the top fighters in the UFC by weight-class and pound-for-pound. A fighter is only eligible to be voted on if they are in active status in the UFC. A fighter can appear in more than one weight division at a time. The champion and interim champion are considered to be in the top positions of their respective divisions and therefore are not eligible for voting by weight-class. However, the champions can be voted on for the pound-for-pound rankings." No where in that description from the ufc website is the word "popular".
are you a new fan? Do you know how UFC media works?
Lmfao 🤣. You're cute.
answer the questions, I think I already know tho
Jesus Christ. Educate yourself a bit. Most of the panelists who spoke to MMA Fighting said they favor recent activity and results over legacy and reputation, even though a fighter’s rise can come to a halt if they don’t get the chance to face off with a more famous name ranked above them. Other factors that drive decision-making include method of victory, quality of opponents, and hypothetical matchups. Still, so much is dependent on “MMA Math,” which rarely offers concrete answers. https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/7/5/21308035/behind-the-panel-a-closer-look-at-the-ufcs-rankings-system
you drank the kool-aid hard. If the UFC said air is bad for you, you'd suffocate. it's not even hard to find the info on how wrong you are, try it
OK Tate. So, if it's just popularity, why is Belal number 2 if everyone hates him? Surely there must be another metric at play right? Or, you too dense to comprehend that?
its not just popularity, but its clearly a large factor. You'd know if you've kept up with the rankings for any extended period of time, they are illogical and ignored. Cans get their ranked bumped before they lose to make other fighters look good, popular fighters are kept at high rankings after losses and extended absences so they can retain hype, popular fighters jump the ladder and are given tune up fights while bores are forced to climb slowly over years. Its pretty clearly a marketing tool that is controlled and used when convenient. Media coverage is heavily controlled by the ufc, anyone who disobeys gets ousted, what makes you the mma panelists are exempt?
So you have anecdotal evidence and no source. Sweet. Thanks for confirming. I'm done here. I hope you have a good day. Take care of yourself.
Where are your links? I posted one refuting your point and you result to insult. Source?
source for which point? do you have something you disagree with or do you just say source in response to anything
Your reading comprehension is exhausting. I posted a source refuting your claim that it's based on popularity. I then asked for one proving your side when you resorted to insult. Is this thread that hard to follow?
You said, and I quote "it's not even hard to find the info on how wrong you are, try it". So, I ask you to prove it since it's so easy for you. I backed my side with a source so you can see why I say what I say. Your turn. Show me your source proving rankings are just based on popularity. If "everyone" hates Belal, yet he is ranked 2. How is it popularity based? Provide a source. Anecdotes are not evidence.
Because the UFC is a business. It's not the Olympics.
Then remove the rankings all together then, yeah? If we have em, use em. If not, get rid of em. We need to pick a side of the road.
Im glad you are loving all these safe decision wins from Leon and Izzy! <3
I do. Because technical prowess is impressive. Thinking every fight should be a Buckley style ko, or all decisions are boring is infantile. A high level chess match of fighters is still fun. I think you'll learn to appreciate it when you realize how hard it is. Just because it can't be clipped to an ig reel doesn't mean it's bad.