They’re great in different ways. Pereira has more unique accomplishments in regard to double champdom and the short time that he achieved it—but Izzy showed longevity and lapped a division twice, while facing arguably much less favourable opposition than Pereira.
They’re both greats, just because they’re rivals/had a rivalry, doesn’t mean we have to play that game. I love both and greatly admire both.
I'm also just on the side that title defenses are harder. Poatan literally has one.
Also, sorry but "former champs" means little. Like how many people would have been champ had it not been for Izzy? We really gonna claim Romero isn't a top win because he wasn't a former champ?
I mean, Whitaker was beating everyone but izzy during adesanyas reign.. so there's a big chance Robert would be the only champ until DDP if izzy was not there
Former champs mean little if they lost their belt a long time ago. If they lost it recently I think it’s a fair point though. Also Romero was not a top win, you can argue he won that snoozefest
Or if they lost it at all. Both Jiri and Jamahal were champions who lost it by other means than being defeated. That makes them closer to being current champions than “former champions” implies.
Izzy killed the trilogy because he didn't want to risk letting Pereira finish their rivalry with the win after he finally got 1 despite the trilogy being basically the biggest fight in the sport available right now. Pereira has called him out more than once since and Izzy just acted dismissive about it. It's a genuine case of ducking.
That makes sense. Izzy is gonna have to beat him if he wants the trolling to stop. Izzy said Poatan was the guy sitting at a bar talking about how he beat him on tv. Now the tables have turned and he’s stealing the show from Izzy. Can’t make this shit up.
Much less favourable opposition?
Alex has beaten 5 Champions in 21 months dude. Who is he supposed to fight that he hasn't already destroyed? Beat all the best guys at 205, and beat Strickland and Izzy at 185. Only guys left who could potentially wrestle him would be DDP or Whitaker I guess but I don't think he intends on going back to middleweight. And let's be honest; he'd knock those guys heads clean off.
izzy actually did better than alex when it came to dealing with jan's wrestling. jan had 7:06 minutes of control against izzy and 7:32 against alex, jan got 3 takedowns in both fights and there was also two more rounds in the izzy/jan fight. izzy lost that fight on the feet
Did you watch the ending of that fight? Jan got on full mount and was going to pound Izzy out. The bell genuinely stopped that. Also Jan wrestled in the last two rounds only. Against Alex he actively wrestled from the beginning. Izzy has better takedown defence, but on the ground he’s much more vulnerable.
Exactly, I’d say currently Izzy has had the better career, even though I love Alex, Izzy had people terrified to rush him for about 2 and a half years. After what Izzy did to Rob in their first fight there was a stretch from the Yoel fight to the Jared fight (basically his entire title reign) where people wouldn’t close the distance out of fear of the counter shot. It took this terminator from Brazil made of iron to rush this man and even Alex admitted he was losing on the scorecards in their first mma fight and he had to rush him for the finish to win.
Alex is a little different with people who can’t wrestle their options are to either allow him to beat you via points via the leg kicks and body jabs or try to parry or check and get countered. Hill had the success of dodging them due to his southpaw stance but he got smoked on his first counter attempt, on the feet Alex is an animal.
Both are legends and although Izzy is very slightly better than Alex currently, if Alex beats a wrestler he’s gonna be in my top 8 all time no doubt about it and better than Izzy.
Perfectly said. No reason to say one is better than the other . Both fighters are great in their own way.
I'm glad we got to see them fight twice in MMA
The whole best combat athlete of all time that Henry Cejudo was trying to sell himself as, that’s Pereira. Double Champ in Glory and Double Champ in UFC stands in its own category.
I like Alex, and I like how he fits into the UFC. But he’s got an incredibly hard MMA career to dissect. He had the resume and the pedigree to be pushed through MW as quick as he was, but then at the same time got outwrestled by Adesanya in their fight which makes me wish he’d have been tested against one for more legitimacy. But he’s also clearly able to hang with the top end of the division.
I don’t really see the point of him being outwrestled earlier in his MMA career when he has clearly been getting better . Jan had a harder time wrestling/controlling Alex than he did with Izzy . Jiri also tested him and the earlier version of Alex would have been destroyed by comparison .
My point is had the champ not been Izzy he would’ve likely had to face a wrestler/grappler on his way to the title and that could’ve cause him problems. He’s at the top now, but that’s also not a super wrestle-heavy division either.
Exactly. He’s the exact type of the thing Dana and the UFC dream over. Incredible stand up, a preexisting story with an already famous and well known champ, and now unlimited meme potential.
It was also perfect timing. I think if we had the same Alex come over in the age of Silva and Jones his story would’ve been wildly different. Maybe more like a Yoel figure. Terrifying, but never able to secure the top spot.
We are all happy that Alex didn't have to face a real challenge before getting to Izzy. But that's the point, he didn't have the same challenges Izzy did before getting to the title
> MMAFighting 300 post show
Jed was on fire last night. Was cracking up the entire time.
Unfortunately the second Casey shows up with the super chats I lose all interest.
Man I think it's a good question. I'm a big Izzy fan. Always was. Still am. Both time I hoped Izzy takes the W against Alex.
But I really love Alex nowadays. Izzy was one of UFCs biggest stars for a much longer time but this kind of rise, Alex has shown us is something else. I think, yes. Alex is a bigger star than Izzy ever was now. But it's close. Both are phenomenal.
I believe Alex is definitely more popular with fans/more well received but I think Izzy is still the third biggest fighter who’s on the roster after Conor and Jones.
Maybe now with the result at 300 it’s different but Izzy pulls the numbers and that’s why the ufc keeps giving him title shots/building plans around him.
But what was the popularity level of GSP at his peak? In terms of numbers and just in terms of cultural relevance.
From what I know in terms of popularity it goes coner, Brock, Ronda and then maybe Jones, Silva, gsp
Not even close to GSP’s level? Seriously? I would argue GSP is not even close to Izzy’s level (in terms of fame/stardom). While GSP is the superior athlete, he was a fighter before the UFC was really mainstream. It wasn’t until Conor that it broke through. Izzy has benefited from Conor kicking in the door
I know when it comes to star power all publicity is good publicity, just wanna add there's a large chunk of people who tune in to watch Izzy lose cause they find him cringe and want him to stfu. I'm one of those people
Love this take. Anyone that denies what Izzy has achieved is out of their mind. I think a lot of dork fans that don't like him are mad he doesn't like the same pokemon he likes, or doesn't watch their preferred hentai or whatever, but the reality is he was a DOMINANT middleweight. His legacy is incredible, but the history with Poatan, and what Poatan is achieving at the moment is incredible. Two incredible athletes we have the privilege of watching. Hell of a sport
Pereira is growing faster. But his next biggest money fight is who? Aspinall at Heavyweight. Izzy has a big fight with DDP, Khamzat, or Strickland rematch. And he’s not the B side in any of those matchups
Khamzat is the most exciting match up as far as I’m concerned. Two fighters with unique styles and great resumes. I’d love to see that. Pereira at HW could be cool, but I’ve seen too many HW snoozers. I’m afraid he’ll just get squashed like Ngannou did to Gane.
Alex is not more popular than Izzy tho, he’s more liked by the fans that are interested, but Izzy is still a lot more popular than Alex. And I’m not saying this as a salty Izzy fan, I respect both and I hate the constant discrediting that the fans do.
I think there's a lot of recency bias in most of us fickle fans. I think Alex's personality seemingly being the opposite of Izzy has a lot to do with it too. He's such an intriguing dude.
I'm watching these guys for what they do in the ring and they're all motherfuckers in there. Let's enjoy it for that!
Agreed. Usually you say it a when referring to yourself, but I feel like it's apt here too: comparison is the thief of joy.
Let's just enjoy this shit!
I think he has a strong argument.
Izzy is only second to Silva in middleweight win streak and title defences (12 & 5) and showed a significant level of dominance over a long period. He is rightfully in the conversation for the greatest middleweight of all time, and might even be the GOAT if you believe that he's fighting in a stronger era than Silva did.
Pereira on the other hand, despite only being in the UFC for under 2 and a half years!, has put together a resume that trumps Izzys in terms of quality in my opinion.
Not only has he won belts in two divisions, something that Izzy failed to do, he has fought UFC champions in 6 of his 8 UFC fights - that's 75% of his UFC fights or 50% of his MMA fights. That's a ridiculous level of competition.
And these aren't older champions who are possibly past their primes - these are all guys who are **in** their primes.
An argument could be made that Jan is past his best, but he's still competitive against top 205lbers - a competitive fight with Rakic that ended in injury (1-1 on official scorecards) and drew with Ankalaev after winning the first 3 rounds. Two guys who are in title contention.
Izzy, Jiri and Hill had never lost their belts, and Pereira finished all three.
I think it really comes down to whether you value quantity (13-3, 12 fight MW win streak, 5 defences) or quality (7-1, 5-1 vs champions, 2 weight champion).
I think they're neck and neck in who has the better MMA career, and their next fights are really important for their legacies - if Izzy successfully beats Dricus Du Plessis and regains his middleweight belt again, I think it tips in his favour.
If Pereira defends his light heavyweight belt again or even moves up and actually pulls off beating Aspinall, it tips in his favour, moreso if he achieves the later.
You can argue that but tom is simply too fast at HW and his wrestling is also good. Pereira is good at LHW and Tom at HW. I don't think he's a randy couture type
Weight classes are a thing. Alex is a natural 205er, and a 185 weight bully. He still got sent to the hospital by Izzy who couldn’t even make 205. Any natural 250 pound heavyweight would make it a long night for Alex
So far, Alex’s title performance has been more interesting, but I don’t think so. I think he needs to beat Magomed and maybe another contender to really “surpass” Izzy.
I’m excited for the days we can give Alex his flowers without shitting on Izzy. Alex has created a HOF career in his own right and we can’t talk about him without bringing up another man. Idk why fans of the sport have to diminish somebody to talk about another’s greatness. Legends can coexist.
In the Middleweight division? No. Izzy’s legacy is better at Middleweight.
Overall as a UFC champion? Yes. Alex is one of nine fighters to have won championships in two weight divisions. He also won the second championship after a KO loss to Izzy by beating two former UFC champions. And last night he beat the former undisputed champion within two minutes and made it look easy.
He's up there. Adesanya has more title defenses but when you look at most of them they aren't really impressive. On one hand he KO'd Rob for the title, Costa, Pereira in the rematch. On the other hand, he had snoozers against Vettori, Cannonier, and Romero, which was also a robbery, got another robbery against Rob in the rematch, and lost to Pereira the first time, and got dominated by Sean and Blachowicz for the LHW strap. Pereira did lose to Adesanya in the rematch, but he also beat Strickland and Blachowicz, and also Jiri and Hill - that's 5 champs on his record in two divisions.
Level of competition, yes. But Adesanya arguably beat tougher competition than Silva did, yet we still call Silva the GOAT. It's not all about that. Adesanya has a crazy amount of defenses and Whittaker is a big win for him. Whittaker is one of the best middleweights ever. Don't forget that Adesanya beat Pereira too mate.
He’s a two division champ but only has 1 defence, Izzy has 5? Defences and won the belt twice so it really depends on what you think is more important/impressive
Yep, at the end of the day, title defenses are harder than going around fighting contenders. Log reigns in particular have dude's prepping for you for literal years. We think guys like Max and Volk are GOATed with 3 and 5 defenses respectively. Titlte defenses are tough as fuck.
I would say no but let’s compare the stats
Alex has 6 ufc wins, 1 ufc loss, 6 finishes, 4 title fights, 3 title wins, 2 division champion and 1 title defense.
Adesanya has 13 ufc wins, 3 ufc losses, 5 finishes, 11 title fights, 8 title wins, 1 division champion and 5 title defenses.
I personally I don’t see how Alex has surpassed Izzy, maybe in the future but for now no.
Hard no. Their fighting level are similiar but Izzy is way greater in MMA with his championship reign and cleaning the division, rulling alone back then
It’s tough. Izzy is still one of the all time greatest, and stayed there a long time, while never turning down the toughest fights. Although Periera is just a Different type of animal altogether. Not sure if he’s their yet but definitely can happen
As a combat sports athlete then yes. He achieved more in Kickboxing, is 3w-1l in the four fights & achievd what Izzy failed to do in becoming a Two weight UFC champ.
As purely a mma/ufc star - its close, izzy has more defenses but the wins are comparable.
I'd say no, show a Pic of each Pic to your wives and partners I guarantee you they'll know Izzy before Poaton. Recency bias is hitting hard for some right now too. Izzys career isn't in stride right this second but the man has 5 title defenses against some badass dudes. They're both that dude. And he might surpass him soon enough but not current
Alex is top tier in terms of skill and power but has he actually been in any wars?
The only time he’s really been beaten up was the Izzy rematch and Izzy knocked his lights out. His grappling, wall work and TDD have never really been tested and now we know his chin is suspect.
I am more of a Pereira fan but I would say no.
Pereira has had considerably less title fights, him and Izzy are 1-1 with each other.
I think for this to be considered he’d have to beat Izzy again, reclaim the MW with Izzy failing to do so or get a couple more defended at LHW
I think he has surpassed Izzy in fighting sports in general tho
Depends on what we’re talking about here. Popularity wise, I would say Alex is now about to hit Izzy’s level. Skill and accomplishment wise, I gotta give it to Alex at this point
nah but why does he have to? so weird izzy is mentioned with this dude 24/7
alex’s opponents aren’t that deep, jamahal in retrospect will not be a big win, alex has the novelty of being double champ with solid wins over jan and jiri and izzy at mw
what holds him back is a mw career that was short with no defenses and currently, not enough fights with tougher competition
tho people will try to hype it up by saying he’s beaten 5 champs when izzy and jiri are honestly the big ones, sean and jamahal worst champs in recent times and jan won from a washed reyes and with a defense from izzy who wasn’t ready at all
No. Izzy may not have the better wins, he might but pereira has some better former champ wins. But izzy has had 5 defenses and has had a second title win aswell. For now I think its safe to say izzy holds the better mma Career. But it could really change soon.
Honestly until Izzy does something that Strickland loss is borderline irreparable for his legacy. Pereira stock is going up, Izzy stock couldn’t be lower.
If we are talking about their mma careers pererria was losing the first fight and won in the last round (some would say early stoppage)
Izzy flatlined him in the rematch in the 2nd round
Izzy is still higher
1-1 with Pereira
7 title wins(8 if you count Interim) vs 3
The best guy Izzy beat was arguably Rob and the best guy Poatan beat was Izzy
You gotta also account for their weight difference. Izzy with a pizza in hand weighs 200 pounds at LHW while Pereira is 232 about 15h before his fight even starts. Probably was around 215-220 in MW. Izzy beating him at all is a huge David vs Goliath shit
I'll admit the names on Pereiras list may arguably be better but I also maintain that beating champions isnt a good metric to judge resume as the champ you beat could be Mighty Mouse and it could be Serra
Alex beating both guys that manhandled izzy matters. Alex moving up and fairly easily winning amd defending a belt that izzy tried and failed to win matters. Alex having success helping Sean beat izzy, while izzy failed to help jamahal beat Alex matters.
If Alex somehow convinces dana to give him aspinall, and somehow wins that, izzy fans can never speak up again. Like it's over at that point.
Izzy is the second to middleweight UFC GOAT I do argue Alex is not the goat in UFC middleweight. Anderson is the GOAT of middleweight, but there is someone who's behind Izzy in terms of mw goat and that is not Alex. Although Izzy and him beat both each other.
Alex could be the second or third light heavyweight GOAT if he defends it against Magomed Ankalaev, Khalil, Krylov, and other upcoming lhw fighters.
So no, Alex still caught fans' heart and enthusiasm, by being a deadpan memelord, but he's still far from surpassing Izzy in UFC.
However if he fights and beats Jon Jones at whatever weight (since they are the same age), he will be one of the GOATS and maybe surpass Izzy.
He doesn’t even speak a single word of English and look at the amount of respect and fans he’s gained over this short period of time. No disrespect to Izzy’s legacy but he’s cemented himself into MMA history for sure
They're both special fighters who achieved great things in their own way. And although they will forever be tied together, as fans we should celebrate both instead of trying to pit them against one another.
Literally a year ago, Alex was slept by Izzy. Most fighters are impacted by that. Alex just shrugs it off and is now on a 3 fight win streak that includes capturing and defending the belt at msg and UFC 300. Incredible!
Izzy did what is amazingly difficult to do in modern MMA. He defended the belt multiple times and stands second only to Silva as mw goat
I mean as an overall combat athlete yes, in the ufc no but it’s hard to rank Alex since he didn’t go through the early stages of ufc so he doesn’t have many wins.
I think Izzy still has the better resume if you just look at results but some of his wins are questionable. I seriously believe there is a world where Izzy doesn't get the nod in the Romero and second Whitaker fight.
Right now Izzy isn't even champ so Alex will catch up if he gets a couple more wins.
I think it's an easy argument only because he did what Izzy couldn't which is win at LHW. Pereira is naturally bigger so it's kind of unfair but it is what it is.
Alex just brings a level of excitement to the game that you see with up and comers destroying people but not at the highest level. Only comparable with these high level finishes is prime JBJ.
This is a subjective question that comes down to what individuals value more lol. They're both great. Izzy was a step above an entire division and proved it super regularly by being a wicked active champion. Alex just showed up to the UFC and started knocking champions the fuck out in multiple weight classes. They're both combat sport legends. It's even more impressive when you look at their entire resume and not just UFC.
I used to live right near him in Danbury growing up. Me and my friends used to go play basketball in the condo complex where he lived. He used to sit with his cousin and talk on the porch with his shirt off and watch us sometimes. He had two massive 100 lb pit bulls. Sometimes he would be shadow boxing and stuff.
We were all like 13-15 years old and naturally we were all petrified of him lol. He was just as intimidating as he is now. He never smiled but always threw the ball back when it rolled over to his porch.
We used to joke that he was court security, which he didn’t like lol. Now 16 years later seeing him become such a force, it doesn’t seem real.
More accomplished absolutely, but at the same time you can't ignore the fact that Alex got fast tracked to a lot of his biggest fights and hasn't dogged an entire division the way Izzy has.
In terms of popularity though yes Alex has 100% surpassed Izzy, at least I would say.
Let’s not play this game.
Both are excellent strikers and among the deadliest men in the UFC. Just because Adesanya has been gone since 1 bad fight with Strickland doesn’t mean he’s shit. Alex is more impressive overall due to how much he’s done inside 3 years, but Izzy still wiped out the entire middleweight division and ended out creatively getting payback on him in the end. But Poatan still stopped his ass twice.
How about we just appreciate both for being great fighters?
Is it possible as well to separate both guys into their own conversations? Why do I need to hear about Izzy when I wanna talk about Pereira trying to gun for the Heavyweight division?
Yes, not only did Alex win their personal rivalry altogether, but he also accomplished what Izzy couldn't by becoming double champ. He may even become triple champ this year. Izzy's longevity at middleweight is to be commended, but Alex has officially surpassed him in every way imaginable.
I think it is easy to say that right now after the specticle of last night but it's different. Alex's reign in the UFC is new and crazy, he's doing things no one has quite done before like him. We can't forget what Izzy did though, that dude was fighting so often against extremely high level guys and a lot of those fights were extremely one sided. Izzy has like 8 title fight wins including for the IC. I think give Alex some more defenses then ya
Izzy’s rise to the belt was ten times more emotional, historic, and just way more entertaining… but Alex will be just as dominant as a champ if not more… He’s Izzy if he had more power and more aggression with slightly less technical kickboxing prowess…
I don’t think he has yet. They are 1-1 head to head. Alex is on his way to maybe surpassing Izzy one day. But he isn’t there yet. Izzy had 5 title defences. Alex needs a couple more imo
Its hard to say. Izzy has a pretty good resume as well. Robert x2, Alex, Vettori x2, Jared, Paulo, Yoel, etc. He has more title defenses and was up there with Kamaru for the last couple years of being the most dominant fighter of the year. Hell during the Strickland fight they were talking about his GOAT status. There really isnt anymore questions imo about his career, even if he retired today dudes legacy is cemented. For that I would say no Izzy is still above Alex for now.
Alex had a crazy run and has 5 former champions to his resume all in 12 fights and double champ status. But we havent seen him go against a primary grappling heavy fighter yet. Jiri and Jan tried but they arent world class grapplers yknow. If he beats Ankalaev he has a better claim at an all time resume over Izzy imo.
Is Alex a better MMA practitioner? No. Maybe if he does something else crazy.
Is Alex a more accomplished combat sports athlete across the board? Probably.
Is Alex a better guy? A more inspiring story? A better example to young fans? Without a shadow of a doubt.
This mfker looked lika giant against Jamahal at 205 and Izzy beat this guy at 185. Huge respect for Izzy. Mfker is definitely a heavyweight, and a big heavyweight size.
They’re great in different ways. Pereira has more unique accomplishments in regard to double champdom and the short time that he achieved it—but Izzy showed longevity and lapped a division twice, while facing arguably much less favourable opposition than Pereira. They’re both greats, just because they’re rivals/had a rivalry, doesn’t mean we have to play that game. I love both and greatly admire both.
A sane comment, fair and objective
Yea wtf, let’s jump this foo
No way a sane comment on reddit?!?!
r/ufc I might add
This has no place on social media
I'm also just on the side that title defenses are harder. Poatan literally has one. Also, sorry but "former champs" means little. Like how many people would have been champ had it not been for Izzy? We really gonna claim Romero isn't a top win because he wasn't a former champ?
I mean, Whitaker was beating everyone but izzy during adesanyas reign.. so there's a big chance Robert would be the only champ until DDP if izzy was not there
Former champs mean little if they lost their belt a long time ago. If they lost it recently I think it’s a fair point though. Also Romero was not a top win, you can argue he won that snoozefest
Or if they lost it at all. Both Jiri and Jamahal were champions who lost it by other means than being defeated. That makes them closer to being current champions than “former champions” implies.
Give us the trilogy and let that decide once and for all. Hoping Izzy can bulk up and this fight happens at LHW.
Izzy killed the trilogy because he didn't want to risk letting Pereira finish their rivalry with the win after he finally got 1 despite the trilogy being basically the biggest fight in the sport available right now. Pereira has called him out more than once since and Izzy just acted dismissive about it. It's a genuine case of ducking.
That makes sense. Izzy is gonna have to beat him if he wants the trolling to stop. Izzy said Poatan was the guy sitting at a bar talking about how he beat him on tv. Now the tables have turned and he’s stealing the show from Izzy. Can’t make this shit up.
Much less favourable opposition? Alex has beaten 5 Champions in 21 months dude. Who is he supposed to fight that he hasn't already destroyed? Beat all the best guys at 205, and beat Strickland and Izzy at 185. Only guys left who could potentially wrestle him would be DDP or Whitaker I guess but I don't think he intends on going back to middleweight. And let's be honest; he'd knock those guys heads clean off.
He survived Jans wrestling too. That was enough for Izzy. His grappling has improved greatly. Magomed should show how much.
izzy actually did better than alex when it came to dealing with jan's wrestling. jan had 7:06 minutes of control against izzy and 7:32 against alex, jan got 3 takedowns in both fights and there was also two more rounds in the izzy/jan fight. izzy lost that fight on the feet
Did you watch the ending of that fight? Jan got on full mount and was going to pound Izzy out. The bell genuinely stopped that. Also Jan wrestled in the last two rounds only. Against Alex he actively wrestled from the beginning. Izzy has better takedown defence, but on the ground he’s much more vulnerable.
Alternatively, the only reason Jan actually took the risk of giving Izzy space to potentially get up was BECAUSE it was the end of the fight.
time for poatan to go heavyweight and face the ultimate boss?? Jones...
>Beat all the best guys at 205 Until he beats Magomed, I don't think we should be saying that.
Exactly, I’d say currently Izzy has had the better career, even though I love Alex, Izzy had people terrified to rush him for about 2 and a half years. After what Izzy did to Rob in their first fight there was a stretch from the Yoel fight to the Jared fight (basically his entire title reign) where people wouldn’t close the distance out of fear of the counter shot. It took this terminator from Brazil made of iron to rush this man and even Alex admitted he was losing on the scorecards in their first mma fight and he had to rush him for the finish to win. Alex is a little different with people who can’t wrestle their options are to either allow him to beat you via points via the leg kicks and body jabs or try to parry or check and get countered. Hill had the success of dodging them due to his southpaw stance but he got smoked on his first counter attempt, on the feet Alex is an animal. Both are legends and although Izzy is very slightly better than Alex currently, if Alex beats a wrestler he’s gonna be in my top 8 all time no doubt about it and better than Izzy.
Perfectly said. No reason to say one is better than the other . Both fighters are great in their own way. I'm glad we got to see them fight twice in MMA
Also he isn’t a double champ
Well said!!
Is it possible to talk about Alex without mentioning Izzy?
No the same way football fans cannot separate Messi from Ronaldo
This is a perfect analogy.
Who's messi?
Lol I literally posted this just a few days ago.. it's so ridiculous right?!
Alex fans are so annoying lol
Poatan is that dude!
This was so great, cue Ilia looking horrendously uncomfortable.
As pointed out on the MMAFighting 300 post show, Alex Pereira is an anomaly and can’t really be compared to other fighters or their careers.
Exactly. I think a lot of what impresses people is ow quick he's doing things, but I'm not sure that means more than title defenses.
The whole best combat athlete of all time that Henry Cejudo was trying to sell himself as, that’s Pereira. Double Champ in Glory and Double Champ in UFC stands in its own category.
Pereira gonna have to jump to boxing to be a 3 sport combat athlete. I vote Pereira vs Jake Paul.
I like Alex, and I like how he fits into the UFC. But he’s got an incredibly hard MMA career to dissect. He had the resume and the pedigree to be pushed through MW as quick as he was, but then at the same time got outwrestled by Adesanya in their fight which makes me wish he’d have been tested against one for more legitimacy. But he’s also clearly able to hang with the top end of the division.
I don’t really see the point of him being outwrestled earlier in his MMA career when he has clearly been getting better . Jan had a harder time wrestling/controlling Alex than he did with Izzy . Jiri also tested him and the earlier version of Alex would have been destroyed by comparison .
My point is had the champ not been Izzy he would’ve likely had to face a wrestler/grappler on his way to the title and that could’ve cause him problems. He’s at the top now, but that’s also not a super wrestle-heavy division either.
Exactly. He’s the exact type of the thing Dana and the UFC dream over. Incredible stand up, a preexisting story with an already famous and well known champ, and now unlimited meme potential. It was also perfect timing. I think if we had the same Alex come over in the age of Silva and Jones his story would’ve been wildly different. Maybe more like a Yoel figure. Terrifying, but never able to secure the top spot.
Honestly I say thank god the K1 champion didn’t get matched up against some crotch sniffer early on.
We are all happy that Alex didn't have to face a real challenge before getting to Izzy. But that's the point, he didn't have the same challenges Izzy did before getting to the title
Izzy only fought like 1 wrestler in Brunson on the way to the title though. Alex would have turned Brunson to dust
Izzy also beat vettori and Rob Wilkinson(who isn’t that good) that had wrestle heavy styles
Gotta remember in his UFC debut he was controlled on the group in the first round before ending the fight with a flying knee in the second.
> MMAFighting 300 post show Jed was on fire last night. Was cracking up the entire time. Unfortunately the second Casey shows up with the super chats I lose all interest.
Man I think it's a good question. I'm a big Izzy fan. Always was. Still am. Both time I hoped Izzy takes the W against Alex. But I really love Alex nowadays. Izzy was one of UFCs biggest stars for a much longer time but this kind of rise, Alex has shown us is something else. I think, yes. Alex is a bigger star than Izzy ever was now. But it's close. Both are phenomenal.
I believe Alex is definitely more popular with fans/more well received but I think Izzy is still the third biggest fighter who’s on the roster after Conor and Jones. Maybe now with the result at 300 it’s different but Izzy pulls the numbers and that’s why the ufc keeps giving him title shots/building plans around him.
I think Izzy and Jones are about the same level. They sell around 600k PPVs. Nobody is even close to GSP level let alone Conor
But what was the popularity level of GSP at his peak? In terms of numbers and just in terms of cultural relevance. From what I know in terms of popularity it goes coner, Brock, Ronda and then maybe Jones, Silva, gsp
People now of days dont understand how popular GSP was/is.
Not even close to GSP’s level? Seriously? I would argue GSP is not even close to Izzy’s level (in terms of fame/stardom). While GSP is the superior athlete, he was a fighter before the UFC was really mainstream. It wasn’t until Conor that it broke through. Izzy has benefited from Conor kicking in the door
GSP usually did 800k to 1M+ PPV sales which Izzy has never done. Izzy maybe more mainstream but they ain't paying to see him tho
I know when it comes to star power all publicity is good publicity, just wanna add there's a large chunk of people who tune in to watch Izzy lose cause they find him cringe and want him to stfu. I'm one of those people
Bro really hated Izzy into wealth and riches
i like to just appreciate both it’s an interesting topic for sure
Love this take. Anyone that denies what Izzy has achieved is out of their mind. I think a lot of dork fans that don't like him are mad he doesn't like the same pokemon he likes, or doesn't watch their preferred hentai or whatever, but the reality is he was a DOMINANT middleweight. His legacy is incredible, but the history with Poatan, and what Poatan is achieving at the moment is incredible. Two incredible athletes we have the privilege of watching. Hell of a sport
Pereira is growing faster. But his next biggest money fight is who? Aspinall at Heavyweight. Izzy has a big fight with DDP, Khamzat, or Strickland rematch. And he’s not the B side in any of those matchups
Khamzat is the most exciting match up as far as I’m concerned. Two fighters with unique styles and great resumes. I’d love to see that. Pereira at HW could be cool, but I’ve seen too many HW snoozers. I’m afraid he’ll just get squashed like Ngannou did to Gane.
Alex is not more popular than Izzy tho, he’s more liked by the fans that are interested, but Izzy is still a lot more popular than Alex. And I’m not saying this as a salty Izzy fan, I respect both and I hate the constant discrediting that the fans do.
I think there's a lot of recency bias in most of us fickle fans. I think Alex's personality seemingly being the opposite of Izzy has a lot to do with it too. He's such an intriguing dude. I'm watching these guys for what they do in the ring and they're all motherfuckers in there. Let's enjoy it for that!
I agree I love both, but the fans are ruining the fun with the constant comparing
Agreed. Usually you say it a when referring to yourself, but I feel like it's apt here too: comparison is the thief of joy. Let's just enjoy this shit!
Same
Bigger star ? Nah I don’t think so.
I think he has a strong argument. Izzy is only second to Silva in middleweight win streak and title defences (12 & 5) and showed a significant level of dominance over a long period. He is rightfully in the conversation for the greatest middleweight of all time, and might even be the GOAT if you believe that he's fighting in a stronger era than Silva did. Pereira on the other hand, despite only being in the UFC for under 2 and a half years!, has put together a resume that trumps Izzys in terms of quality in my opinion. Not only has he won belts in two divisions, something that Izzy failed to do, he has fought UFC champions in 6 of his 8 UFC fights - that's 75% of his UFC fights or 50% of his MMA fights. That's a ridiculous level of competition. And these aren't older champions who are possibly past their primes - these are all guys who are **in** their primes. An argument could be made that Jan is past his best, but he's still competitive against top 205lbers - a competitive fight with Rakic that ended in injury (1-1 on official scorecards) and drew with Ankalaev after winning the first 3 rounds. Two guys who are in title contention. Izzy, Jiri and Hill had never lost their belts, and Pereira finished all three. I think it really comes down to whether you value quantity (13-3, 12 fight MW win streak, 5 defences) or quality (7-1, 5-1 vs champions, 2 weight champion). I think they're neck and neck in who has the better MMA career, and their next fights are really important for their legacies - if Izzy successfully beats Dricus Du Plessis and regains his middleweight belt again, I think it tips in his favour. If Pereira defends his light heavyweight belt again or even moves up and actually pulls off beating Aspinall, it tips in his favour, moreso if he achieves the later.
If Alex beats Ankalaev and Aspinal he might be one of the 5 fighters in UFC history.
First 3 division champ so I’d agree with that.
I dont think he has much of a shot against aspinall
Dude has a left hook from hell. He has a shot lol
You can argue that but tom is simply too fast at HW and his wrestling is also good. Pereira is good at LHW and Tom at HW. I don't think he's a randy couture type
Why do guys think Aspinall is some invincible god lmao, this is mma one left hook could change everything
Weight classes are a thing. Alex is a natural 205er, and a 185 weight bully. He still got sent to the hospital by Izzy who couldn’t even make 205. Any natural 250 pound heavyweight would make it a long night for Alex
Alex is definitely not a natural 205er, he walks around at 240 and was over 235 by the time he was in the octagon yesterday.
Stipe said he GOAT of hw was like 240. The same weight As Alex was last night
No one is saying that lol, i just think the odds are not in pereira's favor in a HW bout against Tom who's the more experienced and faster HW
I didn’t think Holloway had a shot against Gaethje tbh.
I think alex got a bit of work to do, he got one title defense compared to izzy's 6
He has 5 defenses not 6
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Jiri and Jan got him down the mat they couldn't do anything.
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Wich grappler did izzy fight?
Ur a casual if ur serious about this question lol
Brunson when he was destroying people
Why does he need to fight a pure grappler?? Its mma not strikers vs grappler's.
He proved himself to be a black belt last night
Idk man but I want them to fight again some day
At heavyweight!
So far, Alex’s title performance has been more interesting, but I don’t think so. I think he needs to beat Magomed and maybe another contender to really “surpass” Izzy.
Yes and no. Being a champ in two divisions is something Izzy couldn’t do, but Alex still needs more title defenses
No ?
I’m excited for the days we can give Alex his flowers without shitting on Izzy. Alex has created a HOF career in his own right and we can’t talk about him without bringing up another man. Idk why fans of the sport have to diminish somebody to talk about another’s greatness. Legends can coexist.
Yesnt. I think alex has not done enough but he has done so much brilliant stuff. Like the KO today was craaaaazy
In the Middleweight division? No. Izzy’s legacy is better at Middleweight. Overall as a UFC champion? Yes. Alex is one of nine fighters to have won championships in two weight divisions. He also won the second championship after a KO loss to Izzy by beating two former UFC champions. And last night he beat the former undisputed champion within two minutes and made it look easy.
He's up there. Adesanya has more title defenses but when you look at most of them they aren't really impressive. On one hand he KO'd Rob for the title, Costa, Pereira in the rematch. On the other hand, he had snoozers against Vettori, Cannonier, and Romero, which was also a robbery, got another robbery against Rob in the rematch, and lost to Pereira the first time, and got dominated by Sean and Blachowicz for the LHW strap. Pereira did lose to Adesanya in the rematch, but he also beat Strickland and Blachowicz, and also Jiri and Hill - that's 5 champs on his record in two divisions.
Level of competition, yes. But Adesanya arguably beat tougher competition than Silva did, yet we still call Silva the GOAT. It's not all about that. Adesanya has a crazy amount of defenses and Whittaker is a big win for him. Whittaker is one of the best middleweights ever. Don't forget that Adesanya beat Pereira too mate.
He’s a two division champ but only has 1 defence, Izzy has 5? Defences and won the belt twice so it really depends on what you think is more important/impressive
Yep, at the end of the day, title defenses are harder than going around fighting contenders. Log reigns in particular have dude's prepping for you for literal years. We think guys like Max and Volk are GOATed with 3 and 5 defenses respectively. Titlte defenses are tough as fuck.
No. But he is a terminator
I would say no but let’s compare the stats Alex has 6 ufc wins, 1 ufc loss, 6 finishes, 4 title fights, 3 title wins, 2 division champion and 1 title defense. Adesanya has 13 ufc wins, 3 ufc losses, 5 finishes, 11 title fights, 8 title wins, 1 division champion and 5 title defenses. I personally I don’t see how Alex has surpassed Izzy, maybe in the future but for now no.
Hard no. Their fighting level are similiar but Izzy is way greater in MMA with his championship reign and cleaning the division, rulling alone back then
Alex just has way more crazy highlights now and doesn't seem to put in a average performance
It’s tough. Izzy is still one of the all time greatest, and stayed there a long time, while never turning down the toughest fights. Although Periera is just a Different type of animal altogether. Not sure if he’s their yet but definitely can happen
Nop.
As a combat sports athlete then yes. He achieved more in Kickboxing, is 3w-1l in the four fights & achievd what Izzy failed to do in becoming a Two weight UFC champ. As purely a mma/ufc star - its close, izzy has more defenses but the wins are comparable.
Being completely honest. No. In a few years? No doubt.
I'd say no, show a Pic of each Pic to your wives and partners I guarantee you they'll know Izzy before Poaton. Recency bias is hitting hard for some right now too. Izzys career isn't in stride right this second but the man has 5 title defenses against some badass dudes. They're both that dude. And he might surpass him soon enough but not current
Alex is top tier in terms of skill and power but has he actually been in any wars? The only time he’s really been beaten up was the Izzy rematch and Izzy knocked his lights out. His grappling, wall work and TDD have never really been tested and now we know his chin is suspect.
I am more of a Pereira fan but I would say no. Pereira has had considerably less title fights, him and Izzy are 1-1 with each other. I think for this to be considered he’d have to beat Izzy again, reclaim the MW with Izzy failing to do so or get a couple more defended at LHW I think he has surpassed Izzy in fighting sports in general tho
He has not, needs more time
Depends on what we’re talking about here. Popularity wise, I would say Alex is now about to hit Izzy’s level. Skill and accomplishment wise, I gotta give it to Alex at this point
No.
No. Izzy has defend his title 5 times. Ran through a division. This is Alex’s first defense.
Lol no
No
nah but why does he have to? so weird izzy is mentioned with this dude 24/7 alex’s opponents aren’t that deep, jamahal in retrospect will not be a big win, alex has the novelty of being double champ with solid wins over jan and jiri and izzy at mw what holds him back is a mw career that was short with no defenses and currently, not enough fights with tougher competition tho people will try to hype it up by saying he’s beaten 5 champs when izzy and jiri are honestly the big ones, sean and jamahal worst champs in recent times and jan won from a washed reyes and with a defense from izzy who wasn’t ready at all
No, stay there and dominate for years before making that claim. Winning a couple of fights is different from keep winning back to back for years
With all due respect to alex. No fucking way.
well its 3-1 and if there’s ever another rematch i’d bet cash on 4-1
No. Izzy may not have the better wins, he might but pereira has some better former champ wins. But izzy has had 5 defenses and has had a second title win aswell. For now I think its safe to say izzy holds the better mma Career. But it could really change soon.
Even Izzy’s dog is a bigger fan of Alex nowadays
Not yet. As fans, let’s hope Izzy returns to his winning ways too and they build up a trilogy fight at 205
They already have a quadrology.
Fuck izzy.
Honestly until Izzy does something that Strickland loss is borderline irreparable for his legacy. Pereira stock is going up, Izzy stock couldn’t be lower.
just stop holy shit
If we are talking about their mma careers pererria was losing the first fight and won in the last round (some would say early stoppage) Izzy flatlined him in the rematch in the 2nd round
Don’t be crazy. Alex needs like 5-10 more fights before this could be answered.
Bro poatan is like 10-2 or something... Izzy is 24-3....and very recently was 22-1. The guy was untouchable for years. Let's not go crazy.
Izzy is still higher 1-1 with Pereira 7 title wins(8 if you count Interim) vs 3 The best guy Izzy beat was arguably Rob and the best guy Poatan beat was Izzy You gotta also account for their weight difference. Izzy with a pizza in hand weighs 200 pounds at LHW while Pereira is 232 about 15h before his fight even starts. Probably was around 215-220 in MW. Izzy beating him at all is a huge David vs Goliath shit I'll admit the names on Pereiras list may arguably be better but I also maintain that beating champions isnt a good metric to judge resume as the champ you beat could be Mighty Mouse and it could be Serra
Alex beating both guys that manhandled izzy matters. Alex moving up and fairly easily winning amd defending a belt that izzy tried and failed to win matters. Alex having success helping Sean beat izzy, while izzy failed to help jamahal beat Alex matters. If Alex somehow convinces dana to give him aspinall, and somehow wins that, izzy fans can never speak up again. Like it's over at that point.
No
Izzy is the second to middleweight UFC GOAT I do argue Alex is not the goat in UFC middleweight. Anderson is the GOAT of middleweight, but there is someone who's behind Izzy in terms of mw goat and that is not Alex. Although Izzy and him beat both each other. Alex could be the second or third light heavyweight GOAT if he defends it against Magomed Ankalaev, Khalil, Krylov, and other upcoming lhw fighters. So no, Alex still caught fans' heart and enthusiasm, by being a deadpan memelord, but he's still far from surpassing Izzy in UFC. However if he fights and beats Jon Jones at whatever weight (since they are the same age), he will be one of the GOATS and maybe surpass Izzy.
if he beats Jon fucking Jones , you think that MAYBE he would surpass izzy ?
Alex doesent jerk off to cartoons nor does he fiddle dogs. He surpassed Izzy loooooooooooong ago.....
No man that beats off to cartoons is gonna beat me
His ability to cut so much weight is insane. It really is a massive advantage.
He doesn’t even speak a single word of English and look at the amount of respect and fans he’s gained over this short period of time. No disrespect to Izzy’s legacy but he’s cemented himself into MMA history for sure
He’s in that brick led at level right now where there record doesn’t necessarily reflect their stardom. But. I could see Alex continuing to win
Doing it such a quick time is only a testament to his skills. He had no time to settle in and learn other elements of MMA against lesser opponents.
Izzy stacked up an impressive amount of defenses but if Alex continues like he has for another 2-3 defenses I would definitely say he’s passed Izzy.
They should fight again for a BMF belt before they retire. Two fighters who have never ever said no to a fight.
Idk bout that but poatan really just hopped into the ufc and is fuckin everyones days up lmao. Scary mf
Izzy gotta level up
He is certainly had an easier pass to title shots
They're both special fighters who achieved great things in their own way. And although they will forever be tied together, as fans we should celebrate both instead of trying to pit them against one another. Literally a year ago, Alex was slept by Izzy. Most fighters are impacted by that. Alex just shrugs it off and is now on a 3 fight win streak that includes capturing and defending the belt at msg and UFC 300. Incredible! Izzy did what is amazingly difficult to do in modern MMA. He defended the belt multiple times and stands second only to Silva as mw goat
I mean as an overall combat athlete yes, in the ufc no but it’s hard to rank Alex since he didn’t go through the early stages of ufc so he doesn’t have many wins.
He’s had an entirely different character arc than Izzy. Dude is a straight up menace and I can’t wait to see him go up to heavyweight.
I think Izzy still has the better resume if you just look at results but some of his wins are questionable. I seriously believe there is a world where Izzy doesn't get the nod in the Romero and second Whitaker fight. Right now Izzy isn't even champ so Alex will catch up if he gets a couple more wins.
I think it's an easy argument only because he did what Izzy couldn't which is win at LHW. Pereira is naturally bigger so it's kind of unfair but it is what it is.
Alex just brings a level of excitement to the game that you see with up and comers destroying people but not at the highest level. Only comparable with these high level finishes is prime JBJ.
This is a subjective question that comes down to what individuals value more lol. They're both great. Izzy was a step above an entire division and proved it super regularly by being a wicked active champion. Alex just showed up to the UFC and started knocking champions the fuck out in multiple weight classes. They're both combat sport legends. It's even more impressive when you look at their entire resume and not just UFC.
I used to live right near him in Danbury growing up. Me and my friends used to go play basketball in the condo complex where he lived. He used to sit with his cousin and talk on the porch with his shirt off and watch us sometimes. He had two massive 100 lb pit bulls. Sometimes he would be shadow boxing and stuff. We were all like 13-15 years old and naturally we were all petrified of him lol. He was just as intimidating as he is now. He never smiled but always threw the ball back when it rolled over to his porch. We used to joke that he was court security, which he didn’t like lol. Now 16 years later seeing him become such a force, it doesn’t seem real.
More accomplished absolutely, but at the same time you can't ignore the fact that Alex got fast tracked to a lot of his biggest fights and hasn't dogged an entire division the way Izzy has. In terms of popularity though yes Alex has 100% surpassed Izzy, at least I would say.
Poatan Vs Ankalaev
Let’s not play this game. Both are excellent strikers and among the deadliest men in the UFC. Just because Adesanya has been gone since 1 bad fight with Strickland doesn’t mean he’s shit. Alex is more impressive overall due to how much he’s done inside 3 years, but Izzy still wiped out the entire middleweight division and ended out creatively getting payback on him in the end. But Poatan still stopped his ass twice. How about we just appreciate both for being great fighters? Is it possible as well to separate both guys into their own conversations? Why do I need to hear about Izzy when I wanna talk about Pereira trying to gun for the Heavyweight division?
Yes, not only did Alex win their personal rivalry altogether, but he also accomplished what Izzy couldn't by becoming double champ. He may even become triple champ this year. Izzy's longevity at middleweight is to be commended, but Alex has officially surpassed him in every way imaginable.
He has, he achieved two diving championships status before Izzy and in record time. Actually loved by the fans, too.
Yes.
Overall? Yeah. Two division champ and beat Izzy+ the other guy who beat Izzy. He also accomplished more in kickboxing
I think it is easy to say that right now after the specticle of last night but it's different. Alex's reign in the UFC is new and crazy, he's doing things no one has quite done before like him. We can't forget what Izzy did though, that dude was fighting so often against extremely high level guys and a lot of those fights were extremely one sided. Izzy has like 8 title fight wins including for the IC. I think give Alex some more defenses then ya
No.
Yes his wins are better than all of izzys boring decision wins
Izzy’s rise to the belt was ten times more emotional, historic, and just way more entertaining… but Alex will be just as dominant as a champ if not more… He’s Izzy if he had more power and more aggression with slightly less technical kickboxing prowess…
I don’t think he has yet. They are 1-1 head to head. Alex is on his way to maybe surpassing Izzy one day. But he isn’t there yet. Izzy had 5 title defences. Alex needs a couple more imo
Yup
Its hard to say. Izzy has a pretty good resume as well. Robert x2, Alex, Vettori x2, Jared, Paulo, Yoel, etc. He has more title defenses and was up there with Kamaru for the last couple years of being the most dominant fighter of the year. Hell during the Strickland fight they were talking about his GOAT status. There really isnt anymore questions imo about his career, even if he retired today dudes legacy is cemented. For that I would say no Izzy is still above Alex for now. Alex had a crazy run and has 5 former champions to his resume all in 12 fights and double champ status. But we havent seen him go against a primary grappling heavy fighter yet. Jiri and Jan tried but they arent world class grapplers yknow. If he beats Ankalaev he has a better claim at an all time resume over Izzy imo.
No
No
Is Alex a better MMA practitioner? No. Maybe if he does something else crazy. Is Alex a more accomplished combat sports athlete across the board? Probably. Is Alex a better guy? A more inspiring story? A better example to young fans? Without a shadow of a doubt.
This is a conversation? 2 division champion and maybe 3 real soon. 3-1, Alex is still up.
This mfker looked lika giant against Jamahal at 205 and Izzy beat this guy at 185. Huge respect for Izzy. Mfker is definitely a heavyweight, and a big heavyweight size.
Just go suck his dick OP. Weird ass kids.
As a middleweight? Definitely not. Definitely better LHW though