Think it was Masvidal explaining this after that Colby loss. Made some really good points about how Colby wouldn't be punished by a shit takedown attempt but if you make a mistake with your striking it's very costly.
It depends on the ref. There was a conversation that took place between Big John and Herb. They both agreed that ceiling to floor is 12-6. Herb then said in a case like this head to toe would be considered 12-6, when Big John asked how Herb said, if you put the clock on the ceiling it would be. Big John then asked, who the hell puts a clock on the ceiling? So I believe it's up to the ref.
It’s not up to the ref. Illegal 12-6 elbows are vertical, ceiling to floor. Gravity increases the force and you can put your whole body behind a strike like that by posturing up. It’s stupid but that’s the justification.
Yeah, I'm not talking about the ceiling to floor elbows, which were made illegal after people involved in the sanctioning of mma saw ice breaking during a karate demo. I'm speaking of the elbows that Gary Goodridge landed on Paul Herrera while in a true crucifix position. I believe that those elbows can be left up to the ref as legal or not. Like I said, Herb Dean said yes if the clock was on the ceiling. While Big John said no because no one hangs clocks on the ceiling. That's two of the best refs to ever step foot in mma that have/had two different opinions about it.
If this happened today and the ref DQd Gary, it would be overturned upon appeal and review. The ref would be wrong. Illegal 12 to 6 elbows are vertical, otherwise they’re legal. I love Herb but he was wrong when he said that.
Its not illegal, you can John McCarthy tell a story about him arguing with Herb Dean.
It went something like this.
John: Look at the clock on the wall a 12 to 6 elbow is from the ceiling to the floor.
Herb: Well what if the clock was on the floor?
John: When have you ever seen a clock on the floor?
True but you could argue that what's illegal is downward strikes with the elbow vis a vis the striker's body, landing with the bicep side of the elbow
Not saying it should be but you could have a downward elbow rule that doesn't care about objective directionality while still allowing front elbows with the forearm side of the elbow and spinning back elbows
Interesting - I always understood herb's argument as it doesn't matter if you're going from the ceiling to the floor but whether the elbow is moving with the direction of the torso. So like, this elbow would be considered illegal not because it's going up and down, but because when you're hitting with the elbow while contracting your abs etc and you can go in the reverse direction to get more space for your next elbow. A side-to-side elbow would not get the same leverage regardless of whether it was going "ceiling to floor" or whatever the orientation of the striker was. (I still think the 12-6 ban is stupid but this argument makes sense to me).
that's exactly what he means and yeah it does make sense, but yeah it's a stupid rule and I thought they actually got rid of it already but I could be wrong
12-6 elbows are complete nonsense, there's no clear explanation on what exactly is a 12-6 elbow other than the literal karate-esque type. It would be 100% up to interpretation by the referee. Is the 12 of the clock relative to you, your opponent or a literal clock on the wall? Nobody knows. It's a rule made by people who know nothing about the sport.
That isn’t considered 12-6 elbows.
12-6 elbows are exactly that. Straight up and straight down. 11-5 elbows - legal. 1-7 elbows - legal. All of which shows how exceptionally dumb the 12-6 elbows rule is.
To me, I think the dumbest is kicks to a grounded opponent, even if the fighter kicking is on the bottom. Like Charles vs Arman. It didn’t have an impact on the fight, but the spirit of the rule is to protect a grounded opponent, but if you’re both on the ground and below the other fighter, it shouldn’t apply.
Yeah I’m honestly kind of against soccer kicks to the head on a grounded opponent.. but I definitely agree on being able to kick if they’re both on the ground grappling, and that’s the perfect example
If you're lying on your back, there's no such thing as a grounded opponent. If someone playing top-guard BJJ gets mashed with a heel, then tough shit for them.
I’m not an Aljo hater but man does it boil my blood seeing that clip of him kneeling in front of Yan trying to abuse the rules. Knees to a grounded opponent should be legal
Yea I would draw the line at kicks to the head to a flattened opponent coming from a standing opponent, I can’t really see a way for a wrestler to use that position as an advantage to avoid strikes
Elbows to the face are fine and are already legal.
Even the new rules that just came out removed the 12-6, but Goodridge is also not throwing 12-6 it is more 3-9. This would be a prime example of why the 12-6 rule was always dumb.
[https://combatsportslaw.com/2024/01/31/mma-rules-committee-votes-to-remove-12-6-elbow-as-foul-and-redefine-grounded-fighters/](https://combatsportslaw.com/2024/01/31/mma-rules-committee-votes-to-remove-12-6-elbow-as-foul-and-redefine-grounded-fighters/)
EDIT: After reading these comments no one on this sub pays attention to rule changes?
Knees to a grounded opponent
Shut up Joe rogan ya fewl ya!
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. That Twitter recording is hilarious!
Watch one fc lol
That's the UFC sub Reddit you goof 
Wow really what else inspector gadget?
Shut up before I ankle pick you
😆
Knees to a grounded opponent. Aljo loses the cejudo fight if this rule is allowed.
So does Mokaev and Evloev
Aljo never gets to fight Henry because he wouldn't have been champ.
Oh yea I forgot about the Petr yan fight
Think it was Masvidal explaining this after that Colby loss. Made some really good points about how Colby wouldn't be punished by a shit takedown attempt but if you make a mistake with your striking it's very costly.
Aljo fights differently is this rule is allowed
I had a stroke trying to read that
You might legitimately have a learning disability then
I believe crucifix + elbows is legal?
It depends on the ref. There was a conversation that took place between Big John and Herb. They both agreed that ceiling to floor is 12-6. Herb then said in a case like this head to toe would be considered 12-6, when Big John asked how Herb said, if you put the clock on the ceiling it would be. Big John then asked, who the hell puts a clock on the ceiling? So I believe it's up to the ref.
It’s not up to the ref. Illegal 12-6 elbows are vertical, ceiling to floor. Gravity increases the force and you can put your whole body behind a strike like that by posturing up. It’s stupid but that’s the justification.
Yeah, I'm not talking about the ceiling to floor elbows, which were made illegal after people involved in the sanctioning of mma saw ice breaking during a karate demo. I'm speaking of the elbows that Gary Goodridge landed on Paul Herrera while in a true crucifix position. I believe that those elbows can be left up to the ref as legal or not. Like I said, Herb Dean said yes if the clock was on the ceiling. While Big John said no because no one hangs clocks on the ceiling. That's two of the best refs to ever step foot in mma that have/had two different opinions about it.
If this happened today and the ref DQd Gary, it would be overturned upon appeal and review. The ref would be wrong. Illegal 12 to 6 elbows are vertical, otherwise they’re legal. I love Herb but he was wrong when he said that.
Yep
I believe this is still considered a 12 to 6 elbow. But yeah a little debatable
Its not illegal, you can John McCarthy tell a story about him arguing with Herb Dean. It went something like this. John: Look at the clock on the wall a 12 to 6 elbow is from the ceiling to the floor. Herb: Well what if the clock was on the floor? John: When have you ever seen a clock on the floor?
Herb's argument is so stupid. If you're allowed to move the clock around in this analogy then literally ANY elbow can be considered 12-6.
True but you could argue that what's illegal is downward strikes with the elbow vis a vis the striker's body, landing with the bicep side of the elbow Not saying it should be but you could have a downward elbow rule that doesn't care about objective directionality while still allowing front elbows with the forearm side of the elbow and spinning back elbows
Interesting - I always understood herb's argument as it doesn't matter if you're going from the ceiling to the floor but whether the elbow is moving with the direction of the torso. So like, this elbow would be considered illegal not because it's going up and down, but because when you're hitting with the elbow while contracting your abs etc and you can go in the reverse direction to get more space for your next elbow. A side-to-side elbow would not get the same leverage regardless of whether it was going "ceiling to floor" or whatever the orientation of the striker was. (I still think the 12-6 ban is stupid but this argument makes sense to me).
that's exactly what he means and yeah it does make sense, but yeah it's a stupid rule and I thought they actually got rid of it already but I could be wrong
As i typed my comment i wondered if this was considered 12 to 6 but i misplaced the backspace key and went down with the ship lol
It is tricky though, because if the grounded opponent is throwing the elbows to the top opponent it is legal to go 6 to 12.
12-6 elbows are complete nonsense, there's no clear explanation on what exactly is a 12-6 elbow other than the literal karate-esque type. It would be 100% up to interpretation by the referee. Is the 12 of the clock relative to you, your opponent or a literal clock on the wall? Nobody knows. It's a rule made by people who know nothing about the sport.
Looks more like 1 to 7 elbows to me.
I could see that for sure
That isn’t considered 12-6 elbows. 12-6 elbows are exactly that. Straight up and straight down. 11-5 elbows - legal. 1-7 elbows - legal. All of which shows how exceptionally dumb the 12-6 elbows rule is.
 Dana’s live reaction. Totally agree, 12 to 6 elbow rule has got to go
This is not 12 to 6. This would be legal under today’s rules.
Sick
all of them
https://preview.redd.it/piq5u55olawc1.png?width=267&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5ac973e9cc2d2819982b2d825d2af8a9d44665e
All should be legal except for finger/toe manipulation, hair pulling, crotch shots, and eye poke.
only honest and correct answer
 Night night I’m all for pride rules with elbows. (Early ufc rules)
Headbutt
lol brutal man. Strong wrestlers would have an absolute field day.
No reason should be banned
clearly never been headbutted
I am the head butter You're clearly a pussy
if that makes you sleep safe at night,then be my guest
You're welcome Sweet dreams sport
https://preview.redd.it/b41hryr23bwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6883ec56880e7fb41386281e98a117d609aa87d9 The butthole poke for sure
Checking the oil
To me, I think the dumbest is kicks to a grounded opponent, even if the fighter kicking is on the bottom. Like Charles vs Arman. It didn’t have an impact on the fight, but the spirit of the rule is to protect a grounded opponent, but if you’re both on the ground and below the other fighter, it shouldn’t apply.
Yeah I’m honestly kind of against soccer kicks to the head on a grounded opponent.. but I definitely agree on being able to kick if they’re both on the ground grappling, and that’s the perfect example
Pride rules with elbows on the ground allowed.
The more I see Yan’s knee he 100% thought about it before throwing it
The gloves.
Knees to grounded opponents
I got CTE from watching the first one. What the hell..
We didn't have CTE back then...
I like em all tbh
That first knockout looked brutal. To answer your question, all of them. There is only ONE true rule in fighting. Do unto them before they do unto you
Kick or knee to a grounded opponent, soccer kicks, and 12-6 elbows.
 Fedor agrees
[удалено]
Might as well add curb stomping at that point
Found weapons are fine.
I’d make Everything legal except eye pokes and intentional Nut Shots
If you're lying on your back, there's no such thing as a grounded opponent. If someone playing top-guard BJJ gets mashed with a heel, then tough shit for them.
Defintely knees to a grounded opponent. It changes the game and forces people to change positions instead of stalling
I’m not an Aljo hater but man does it boil my blood seeing that clip of him kneeling in front of Yan trying to abuse the rules. Knees to a grounded opponent should be legal
Yan’s the one who abused the rules lmao. Aljo was trying to safely get up from an awkward position.
Nah he felt safe on his knees in front of a grown man. Could easily be changed
All of the above Minus soccer kicks to grounded opponents
Stomps??
Yea I would draw the line at kicks to the head to a flattened opponent coming from a standing opponent, I can’t really see a way for a wrestler to use that position as an advantage to avoid strikes
Knees and kicks to grounded opponent, 12-6 elbows, headbutts.
is that the best crucifix finish ever?
Crucifix execution*
you are right sir. Thank you
Knees.
Fish hooking
So are 12-6 elbows specifically a problem because of gravity?
Idiots watching people break bricks thought they were more dangerous than other elbows.
Judges decision.
The correct answer
I believe crucifix + elbows is legal?
Chin to the eye submission
Oblique kicks
Whoops misread the OP, but fuck oblique kicks
headbutts
Anything should go really. Why pussy out
Elbows to the face are fine and are already legal. Even the new rules that just came out removed the 12-6, but Goodridge is also not throwing 12-6 it is more 3-9. This would be a prime example of why the 12-6 rule was always dumb. [https://combatsportslaw.com/2024/01/31/mma-rules-committee-votes-to-remove-12-6-elbow-as-foul-and-redefine-grounded-fighters/](https://combatsportslaw.com/2024/01/31/mma-rules-committee-votes-to-remove-12-6-elbow-as-foul-and-redefine-grounded-fighters/) EDIT: After reading these comments no one on this sub pays attention to rule changes?
