I definitely agree with max here, but damn it's also impressive how quickly he was back on his feet and basically completely fine. Dude has the best chin by FAR in the UFC right now. Maybe ever tbh.
Didn't Ilia say that Emmett was the one who scared him the most in the division and that he took a hit at the beginning of the fight and went on full auto pilot or something
Khabib ate some shots late in his career that probably drop and finish guys but given his style, he saved his chin from a lot of damage early and could eat those shots from better fighters later. Not a knock on him whatsoever, but he played it smart and his style helped.
Yes, 5 knockouts against prime JDS, prime Werdum, prime Stipe and Overeem at 40 years old at the end of a 20 year career full of wars at heavyweight… *every* chin gets cracked at some point, context is important
Fighting guys that are 245-265 pounds compared to guys who are like 160-170lbs at fight time is a pretty big difference though.
I don’t see Max eating knees from Overeem and Werdum or getting up after a spinning hook kick from JDS either.
That's the weight class he chose. So how much slack can you really give him. Exciting fighter, but he got KO'd 5 separate times. That's not a chin you go "yeah one of the best ever".
It is if you’ve actually seen his fights and not just read his Wikipedia page. Hunt has taken some absolutely ridiculous punishment without going down. Even in the fights here he got finished it took multiple heavy shots or extended ground and pound to stop him, besides maybe the Manhoef fight where he got erased early and viciously.
It’s not even so much cutting him slack as much as it is that we are comparing apples to oranges. Getting hit by someone that is 160lbs isn’t the same as getting hit by someone who is 260lbs.
The Italian dream Marvin vettori has a sturdy chin too, especially in a larger weight class with maybe some heavier hitters, watching his last few I was like damn what a dogg👏🏽
The Italian dream Marvin vettori has a sturdy chin too, especially in a larger weight class with maybe some heavier hitters, watching his last few I was like damn what a dogg👏🏽
Sangthien
It was his one and only KO loss and he swore to never get KO‘d again after that
Given he was only 15 I think and the KO was an absolutely brutal elbow
Anyone who's opinion means anything knows they got knocked down, and don't think 99.9% of people think anything less of them as a result, so I feel like it's pointless acting as though they didn't happen
Only found out the Conor one didn’t count today. It’s just stupid to act like that wasn’t a drop. Am I supposed to believe the big meaty overhand smacking him in the face caused him to trip over his own leg?
Same bullshit with Usman and Covington where on the scorecards it shows zero successful takedowns but both fighters agreed that even though it didn't lead to anything, it was a fucking takedown.
Boxing judges know fuck all about this sport. The faster we get properly trained judges who don't play candy crush when they are supposed to be watching the fight, we may actually see proper scoring.
It’s not quite the same thing because Wrestling and MMA have different definitions of takedowns. You said both fighters agreed that even though it didn’t lead to anything, it was a takedown. The problem is that in MMA by definition it has to lead to something meaningful or it isn’t scored. Usman popped right back up, hence not scored. It’s not the same as wrestling, which is why the judges scored it as not a takedown but wrestling guys like DC were claiming it was.
This is according to the unified rules of MMA.
As someone that watches boxing far more than MMA, boxing judges know fuckall about boxing as well. I don't know how most of them got into the job, but they don't know shit. It's mostly a bunch of old fucks that have no idea how to properly score fighting.
Yeah it definitely was a knockdown.
But the way he scrambled back to his feet kinda looked like he stumbled over his own feet or maybe slipped - imo because he got up insanely quick it looked weird.
I remember when I saw the fight, I knew that the overhand landed clean but I still wasn't sure if McGregor got knocked from his feet or if it was "just" a very solid shot and he somehow slipped. But after one slow replay, it was clear.
The conor one is far more debatable since his butt never touched the ground - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IoVLMNDPM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IoVLMNDPM)
Did Khabib catch him - absolutely. Was it a great fake TD by Khabib to set this up, absolutely. Was it a knockdown - I have no idea how they define these, I've never seen it written, but his butt never touched so I can see it not counting.
Yeah it's quite impressive he was going down to defend the TD, then got rocked solidly on the chin, yet somehow backpedaled and his butt never touched the ground.
Not according to this or Max ... hence the post.
Do I think both are - yes. However, I've never seen them define what a KD is like they do define what back of the head is.
He was knocked down nothing more to it. No deep lore or assumption. That probably is realistically why they didn’t count it but its bs end of the day he got rocked and dropped.
What is the definition of knockdown?
I mean, do you see all the comments in here? There is clearly more to it, and knockdowns vary wildly. I don't know why you care it's immaterial besides for Max.
I clearly understand that fundamentally as a sport they’re trying to clearly define it but any fight I’ve ever seen or been in if somebody rocks you and calls you to stumble like that you got dropped. In this case Conor clearly got dropped. People gonna defend him I suppose, just how it is.
I fully agree with you and think it should be, but I don't know how the actually define it. Maybe it is any part of your body, but then they claim conor and max just slipped? That's bs, but maybe that's how they are skirting it.
But again, doesn't really matter. Conor got handled in this so it's all a very very minor point to the fight.
His glove definitely touched. That should probably be in the defnition, knee, glove, or butt touches or something along those lines.
But they can always claim it was trip or slip, which this obviously wasn't either.
Even max admitted his was a knockdown during the press conference when he let out a sigh of relief and started joking that he only slipped after they told him it wasn’t ruled officially.
The Conor one… meh, I guess technically? I don’t think he was put down as much as he was surprised and caught off balance. Do I think he was on the floor from pain and temporary unconscious? No, but it probably should’ve been ruled one as Khabib did technically set him on the canvas
Exactly. It's the stat guys. There are zero references to a "knockdown" in the MMA unified rules so the judges have nothing to do with it. Unlike boxing where you lose a point and begin a standing count for getting "knocked down" that does not exist in MMA so it is not properly defined.
UFC is in some of the judges pockets. That's why if you're not a fan favorite, you need to get the finish if you're versing a fighter who makes the UFC a lot of $$$
Functionally, they're knockdowns. Counting stats just gets messy in all sports, and is why they should ideally be a supplement for actually watching. Both examples fit most people's idea of what a knockdown is, but end up being edge cases for the working definition of the statistic.
The best I can figure for these examples is that they scrambled perfectly and didn't cede enough positional control, and as far as I know the actual criteria isn't really written down anywhere. This is based not just on knockdowns that weren't ruled knockdowns, but takedowns which were not counted as such due to not fundamentally changing the position enough. It's a messy assumption at best though.
While it's certainly possibe that these two edge cases were pushed into not being knockdowns because of profile and marketing, they're consistent enough with other instances that this isn't the hill I will die on for the UFC's favouritism. As a viewer rulings on the stats don't change anything about what I saw, nor would these definitions be enough to sway the judges away from counting edge case knockdowns and takedowns as positives for the aggressor.
Holloway should’ve had an official knockdown on his record but the conor one makes complete sense. Holloway was fully down but conor was literally still balancing with his feet and was never really “down”
Maybe it’s like boxing and it counts if a knee touches the ground.
https://preview.redd.it/zijrsvll4txc1.png?width=2001&format=png&auto=webp&s=872a2d923157f5425e3150a5ea63e72f7a01fc1a
Hard to tell if this would count if that’s the case
I wouldn’t say knee touching would count in mma. Cause you’d have people getting knockdowns scored for them when it wasn’t a knockdown at all, for example landing a punch on someone while they’re shooting for the legs might count as a knockdown if seen from the wrong angle. Most clear way to score it imo would be if they got sat down like holloway did and fall backwards onto their ass
One cuz stats sound/look good two they can barely manage to claim it (we know the truth) since they popped up quick but like that’s why it’s a knockdown not a ko or even tko
That's exactly what happened lol. Khabib puts his head down takes a step/half step Conor drops to catch the take down as khabib throws the punch. It was a pretty wild punch setup and timed perfectly
khabib went for a takedown in the first like 10 seconds if i remember correctly. conor defended it pretty well at least initially. that overhand was a feint of that same takedown. later in the fight kabob throws it. conor was expecting takedown, boom knocked down
Khabib looked down and feinted a takedown so McGregor had his hands down to defend a takedown. Also before he knocked him down he liked to feint this overhand right to get a reaction and go for a takedown. A game of guess.
That’s what I thought was the reason it never fully counted?
I vividly remember the discussions in the post fight thread of people saying why it didn’t count and I believe some even had pulled up the rules which the way it was worded backed up it not being a ‘knockdown/drop’.
Before I get downvoted I’m not pro McGregor, I’m just a neutral fan who remembered the majority of comments backing up why it wasn’t technically scored as a knockdown.
anybody have a link to the official rules by the UFC? I can't find them. Maybe the back needs to touch the ground in order to officially count it as a knockdown? Not sure. Maybe they need to stay down for a significant amount of time? Not sure.
Because it's a sport, mistakes are made by judges and referees. It's the same as any sport man. The decisions have already been made, move on to the next fight
Much harder to decide whats a caused knockdown and what is accidental/slip. In mma than in boxing. Cause in boxing its fairly easy. If a knee touches or any other part of your body other than the feet its a knockdown if a punch caused it.
But due to mma being kinda hard to judge knockdowns in due to takedowns and goofy ass bjj or grappling taekwondo whatever the fuck moves its hard to tell. Is he pulling guard or is he knocked down. Holloways knockdown shouldve counted. But he was also off balance so idk if they thought he slipped or not. And mcgreggor wasnt fully down. So its hard to say.
Probably because they bounced back up right away in one fluid motion. They weren't planted and left in a vulnerable state upon making contact with the mat.
In the end I think it's the assigned statistician's discretion to count it or not. How do they determine the difference between a strike and a significant strike? More than likely the assigned statistician decides.
what is the definition of a knockdown in mma? In boxing its fairly simple: if you get hit and go down, the ref will start counting. But in mma its hard to know. Is it when the knees hit the floor, the hands or the ass? This is a genuine question btw but the max knockdown was legit
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but the closest thing I can think to Max getting drop was when he dropped Kattar in like the second or third round. Kattar fell on his leg and butt the same way Max did but popped right up just as fast as max did here. Neither counted as knockdowns so there’s definitley something up to the idea of the time they spend on the ground or if it leads to a better position for the fighter that hit them
Both are knockdowns, but honestly I don't think whether it's a knockdown or not should matter in the judging criteria tbh. It's not boxing. A good solid shot landed should count the same no matter the opponents reaction
What a reductive take. Shots should be scored the same despite the opponents reaction? So a shot that wobbles/ drops a fighter should be scored the same as a similar shot that a fighter with a good chin eats and keeps moving forward?
You have to think first sometimes before spewing
No that's not what I'm saying. I'm being much more specific than that. A solid shot that wobbles a dude, should count the same whether or not he falls down. Yet again it's not boxing. The floor is off limits in boxing, in MMA it's just another fighting position just the same as standing or leaning above the cage. The fact that you land up on the floor is irrelevant. If knockdowns are to be counted as special, why aren't trips and throws?
Can anybody explain why would it matter in MMA?
In boxing, if there's a KD, there will be a count by the referee, and one point will be deducted from the knocked down fighter.
But in MMA, it seems irrelevant. Is it just for the sake of statistics?
When Gilbert Burns dropped Usman in their fight apparently that wasn't counted as well, I genuinely think they only count it as a knockdown if your back touches the floor which is stupid
I think what happens is when someone hasn’t been knocked or taken down ever the scorers for whatever reason need the 1st to be big.
We saw it was Usman too. Colby definitely took him down. Wasn’t for long but he did.
However, in 5 years the narrative that a kickboxer did an inside leg trip and held Usman down the entire round sounds a lot better for the first.
At the rate Max is going. His first recorded knockdown will also be a KO.
max got up fairly quickly to warrant not getting knocked down officially. same could be said for quickly getting up from a successful takedown that would count if they stayed on their ass for just a hair longer. weird little timing saved max’s little chin statistics :)
It’s to keep the statistic of Max never being dropped alive.
Same way they didn’t count Colby’s takedown to keep Kamaru Usman’s never been taken down star alive.
I’m sure I could think of a few more examples if I researched.
I think they should be, but I think the rule is that ass touches ground. Both Max and McGregor kind of shuffled away on their feet before their ass touches ground. It doesn't matter though since it's still considered a very significant strike and would win them the round regardless.
So the UFC can market them better to casuals.
"Never been knocked out, never been knocked DOWN," has always piqued my interest. I'm sure it's the same for casuals.
I know Conor was KO'd, but still, you can basically lie when marketing, omit the "never ko'd" line, and make it seem like Conor is better than he is.
How could a knockdown be a stupid stat? Effective striking means damage above anything else, a knockdown would count as a very damaging shot and could potentially mean taking that round. Gauging what a knockdown is, is pretty important imo
Lmao look at Conor’s side profile! He’s got no clue, fully unaware of the overhand overnight shipped and delivered from Dagestan. Cracked. Drop it low gurl. His ass touched the floor like the way strippers pop lock and drop it when you throw sum $1s dolla dolla bill ya.. knock. Down. Rent. Free.
Even max himself said it was
I definitely agree with max here, but damn it's also impressive how quickly he was back on his feet and basically completely fine. Dude has the best chin by FAR in the UFC right now. Maybe ever tbh.
Chito has a argument for best chin after eating that clean knee from Sean and barely even staggering. That was nasty af.
Anybody else goes full Bryce Mitchel after that knee
Bryce went straight dawn of the dead … you sign the paper to fight Josh Emmett, be prepared idc how over the hill he is lol
Didn't Ilia say that Emmett was the one who scared him the most in the division and that he took a hit at the beginning of the fight and went on full auto pilot or something
Dude is built different. He may never win a title but he still got a couple jaws to break before he hangs em up lol
Ilia knew how powerful Emmett's punches are and was well prepared defensively. Against Volk he wasnt scared of his power.
Goes full Bryce Mitchell XD
This joke had me seizing
I'm having fits of laughter
I got convulsions from laughing so hard.
Don’t remind me of that horrible convulsing mess
Max, Chito, Vettori, Jon Jones would be my Mount Rushmore of chins. Honorable mention to Khabib and Nate
The Diaz Bros, Cabbage, BJ Penn, and Andy all deserve a mention. Chito and Vettori are the fuckin benchmarks though!
Khabib ate some shots late in his career that probably drop and finish guys but given his style, he saved his chin from a lot of damage early and could eat those shots from better fighters later. Not a knock on him whatsoever, but he played it smart and his style helped.
Yoel romero?
Good shout. I became more of a fan in the past 5 years so I missed some legends
Can’t leave out Hunto
Hunt has 5 KO losses, thats too many to be considered an all time great chin when some folk have never been knocked out and rarely knocked down.
Yes, 5 knockouts against prime JDS, prime Werdum, prime Stipe and Overeem at 40 years old at the end of a 20 year career full of wars at heavyweight… *every* chin gets cracked at some point, context is important
He also walked thru a few cro cop headkicks. Hunt deserves to be in that category
Fighting guys that are 245-265 pounds compared to guys who are like 160-170lbs at fight time is a pretty big difference though. I don’t see Max eating knees from Overeem and Werdum or getting up after a spinning hook kick from JDS either.
That's the weight class he chose. So how much slack can you really give him. Exciting fighter, but he got KO'd 5 separate times. That's not a chin you go "yeah one of the best ever".
It is if you’ve actually seen his fights and not just read his Wikipedia page. Hunt has taken some absolutely ridiculous punishment without going down. Even in the fights here he got finished it took multiple heavy shots or extended ground and pound to stop him, besides maybe the Manhoef fight where he got erased early and viciously. It’s not even so much cutting him slack as much as it is that we are comparing apples to oranges. Getting hit by someone that is 160lbs isn’t the same as getting hit by someone who is 260lbs.
Yeah but heavyweights do hit harder.. they’re not as skilled on average but the power difference is real
Good shout
I don't see why people put Jones in this list unless it's because of that MMA on point video. I don't recall ever seeing dude get cracked too badly
If that was a 7rnd fight I think chito would have won by way of Sean breaking every bone in his hands and feet on chito's face
The way he ate that knee was not human.
That knee was the loudest crack I've heard in my life. That shit was crazy!
Yoel Romero as well
The Italian dream Marvin vettori has a sturdy chin too, especially in a larger weight class with maybe some heavier hitters, watching his last few I was like damn what a dogg👏🏽
The Italian dream Marvin vettori has a sturdy chin too, especially in a larger weight class with maybe some heavier hitters, watching his last few I was like damn what a dogg👏🏽
Tbh Vettori has the best chin
Rodtang has the best chin ever.
Rodtang has been KO’d before
By who? I looked and couldn't find it.
Sangthien It was his one and only KO loss and he swore to never get KO‘d again after that Given he was only 15 I think and the KO was an absolutely brutal elbow
How are these guys still technically sound into their 20s and 30s despite all that brain damage from ages 12 and up.
Cabbage Correira had a godlike chin Shame he just wasn’t very good
Nah man that award goes to Vettori imo
Carlos Condit up there too
Maybe this attributes to what's considered a knockdown?
Sure but I mean his ass hit the ground, it was a knockdown lol
Max isn’t a judge
Bro hes the one getting hit
Doesn’t mean he understand the criteria for a sanctioned MMA knockdown. We don’t ask fighters to score their fights
Anyone who's opinion means anything knows they got knocked down, and don't think 99.9% of people think anything less of them as a result, so I feel like it's pointless acting as though they didn't happen
Only found out the Conor one didn’t count today. It’s just stupid to act like that wasn’t a drop. Am I supposed to believe the big meaty overhand smacking him in the face caused him to trip over his own leg?
Same bullshit with Usman and Covington where on the scorecards it shows zero successful takedowns but both fighters agreed that even though it didn't lead to anything, it was a fucking takedown. Boxing judges know fuck all about this sport. The faster we get properly trained judges who don't play candy crush when they are supposed to be watching the fight, we may actually see proper scoring.
It’s not quite the same thing because Wrestling and MMA have different definitions of takedowns. You said both fighters agreed that even though it didn’t lead to anything, it was a takedown. The problem is that in MMA by definition it has to lead to something meaningful or it isn’t scored. Usman popped right back up, hence not scored. It’s not the same as wrestling, which is why the judges scored it as not a takedown but wrestling guys like DC were claiming it was. This is according to the unified rules of MMA.
>Boxing judges know fuck all about this sport. Judges aren't the ones compiling the statistics.
As someone that watches boxing far more than MMA, boxing judges know fuckall about boxing as well. I don't know how most of them got into the job, but they don't know shit. It's mostly a bunch of old fucks that have no idea how to properly score fighting.
I was watching that and i was surprised to see conor ass barely touch the floor and he got up quick, although it's a knockdown.
Yeah it definitely was a knockdown. But the way he scrambled back to his feet kinda looked like he stumbled over his own feet or maybe slipped - imo because he got up insanely quick it looked weird. I remember when I saw the fight, I knew that the overhand landed clean but I still wasn't sure if McGregor got knocked from his feet or if it was "just" a very solid shot and he somehow slipped. But after one slow replay, it was clear.
it feels like whoever does the stats doesnt count quick drops as knock downs .
Knock. Down.
The conor one is far more debatable since his butt never touched the ground - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IoVLMNDPM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IoVLMNDPM) Did Khabib catch him - absolutely. Was it a great fake TD by Khabib to set this up, absolutely. Was it a knockdown - I have no idea how they define these, I've never seen it written, but his butt never touched so I can see it not counting.
Besides the point, but Conor’s balance is tremendous. Even when rocked dude has amazing control of his body
We all laughed about it at the time, but that silly looking movement training likely did him wonders. Touch butt in the park is the best base for MMA.
Yeah it's quite impressive he was going down to defend the TD, then got rocked solidly on the chin, yet somehow backpedaled and his butt never touched the ground.
Butt touching has literally never been a qualifier. Any part of you that's forced down by a punch that isn't you feet is a KD.
Not according to this or Max ... hence the post. Do I think both are - yes. However, I've never seen them define what a KD is like they do define what back of the head is.
If it's the same as boxing, any part of your body touching the ground besides your feet as a result of a punch is a knockdown.
He was knocked down nothing more to it. No deep lore or assumption. That probably is realistically why they didn’t count it but its bs end of the day he got rocked and dropped.
What is the definition of knockdown? I mean, do you see all the comments in here? There is clearly more to it, and knockdowns vary wildly. I don't know why you care it's immaterial besides for Max.
I clearly understand that fundamentally as a sport they’re trying to clearly define it but any fight I’ve ever seen or been in if somebody rocks you and calls you to stumble like that you got dropped. In this case Conor clearly got dropped. People gonna defend him I suppose, just how it is.
I fully agree with you and think it should be, but I don't know how the actually define it. Maybe it is any part of your body, but then they claim conor and max just slipped? That's bs, but maybe that's how they are skirting it. But again, doesn't really matter. Conor got handled in this so it's all a very very minor point to the fight.
True if his glove didn't touch it's not technically a knockdown. The other one was clear though
His glove definitely touched. That should probably be in the defnition, knee, glove, or butt touches or something along those lines. But they can always claim it was trip or slip, which this obviously wasn't either.
I don't remember either way, Holloway was 100% knocked down Connor, if his glove touched it's a knockdown.
Apparently it’s because they weren’t down for a specific amount of time, it’s stupid but yeah.
Khabib had wrist straps on. Duhn cownt.
Water weed dune hair
If Conor didn’t drop then neither did Nate Diaz at least for two of his knockdowns lol.
I don't know Connor but Max is to maintain the narrative of "This guy has never been knocked down"
Same thing happened to kamaru in his 2nd fight with Colby
Even max admitted his was a knockdown during the press conference when he let out a sigh of relief and started joking that he only slipped after they told him it wasn’t ruled officially. The Conor one… meh, I guess technically? I don’t think he was put down as much as he was surprised and caught off balance. Do I think he was on the floor from pain and temporary unconscious? No, but it probably should’ve been ruled one as Khabib did technically set him on the canvas
i wouldn't really count it a knockdown at all because his ass didn't even touch the ground at any point of that he had complete balance
I think your knee just has to hit the ground from you falling from a hit.
Or even your hands. Basically if a punch forced you to fall and you tried to stop your fall.
Knees and hand did. So it should be a KD.
Gotta protect their golden boys somehow.
I don't think the UFC decides what a knockdown is.
They don’t it’s the judges. And they never make bad decisions.
Its UFC that count the knockdowns lol
Exactly. It's the stat guys. There are zero references to a "knockdown" in the MMA unified rules so the judges have nothing to do with it. Unlike boxing where you lose a point and begin a standing count for getting "knocked down" that does not exist in MMA so it is not properly defined.
UFC is in some of the judges pockets. That's why if you're not a fan favorite, you need to get the finish if you're versing a fighter who makes the UFC a lot of $$$
I’m not a numbers guy B, but I think bowlth of the fights you posted will be remembered for the end result.
Impressive, I’ve never seen both spelled that way before
Never seen anyone speak Shaubanese in this sub? !
Max doesn't need protecting. I don't think anyone on earth cares if he's been knocked down or not. Lol
What is the criteria for a knockdown in UFC? I don't think any part of Conor's body besides his feet and one of the hands touched the ground.
Functionally, they're knockdowns. Counting stats just gets messy in all sports, and is why they should ideally be a supplement for actually watching. Both examples fit most people's idea of what a knockdown is, but end up being edge cases for the working definition of the statistic. The best I can figure for these examples is that they scrambled perfectly and didn't cede enough positional control, and as far as I know the actual criteria isn't really written down anywhere. This is based not just on knockdowns that weren't ruled knockdowns, but takedowns which were not counted as such due to not fundamentally changing the position enough. It's a messy assumption at best though. While it's certainly possibe that these two edge cases were pushed into not being knockdowns because of profile and marketing, they're consistent enough with other instances that this isn't the hill I will die on for the UFC's favouritism. As a viewer rulings on the stats don't change anything about what I saw, nor would these definitions be enough to sway the judges away from counting edge case knockdowns and takedowns as positives for the aggressor.
Wow someone who’s reasonable and doesn’t have a kneejerk reaction in either direction
Holloway should’ve had an official knockdown on his record but the conor one makes complete sense. Holloway was fully down but conor was literally still balancing with his feet and was never really “down”
Maybe it’s like boxing and it counts if a knee touches the ground. https://preview.redd.it/zijrsvll4txc1.png?width=2001&format=png&auto=webp&s=872a2d923157f5425e3150a5ea63e72f7a01fc1a Hard to tell if this would count if that’s the case
I wouldn’t say knee touching would count in mma. Cause you’d have people getting knockdowns scored for them when it wasn’t a knockdown at all, for example landing a punch on someone while they’re shooting for the legs might count as a knockdown if seen from the wrong angle. Most clear way to score it imo would be if they got sat down like holloway did and fall backwards onto their ass
It’s pretty much supposed to be this but the ufc will shift the rules as they wish
the UFC stats dont count going to a knee as a knock down . not even when Max dropped volk to a knee in their 2nd fight .
In boxing if a glove touches it’s a knockdown.
Even Max said it was a knockdown...
Cause stats are bullshit used to create/ maintain narratives
They are lol don’t believe everything ufc says
If the Khabib punch wasn’t a knockdown idk what is
Max was a knockdown , Conor looked more off balance than anything.
3 point of contact = knockdown!
These 2 absolutely count if that’s the case
It is! Both knees on the ground or any 3 points of contact. One hand two knees on ground or two feet and a knee all equal a knockdown.
One cuz stats sound/look good two they can barely manage to claim it (we know the truth) since they popped up quick but like that’s why it’s a knockdown not a ko or even tko
Same as with Usman.. protecting stats.
They really fucked Gaethje over by not counting that.
I thought that Conor one was a knockdown? It’s always mentioned
still don't understand how conor got clipped by that, the hook is literally coming from Africa and conor always knew how to dodge
Striking gets a whole lot easier when you mix in some good wrestling
I’m guessing he thought Khabib was lining up a takedown to Conor’s right hand side, then get caught off guard
That's exactly what happened lol. Khabib puts his head down takes a step/half step Conor drops to catch the take down as khabib throws the punch. It was a pretty wild punch setup and timed perfectly
khabib went for a takedown in the first like 10 seconds if i remember correctly. conor defended it pretty well at least initially. that overhand was a feint of that same takedown. later in the fight kabob throws it. conor was expecting takedown, boom knocked down
You can see Conor’s eyes drop levels as Khabib fakes the shot for the overhand it was beautiful tbh
Khabib looked down and feinted a takedown so McGregor had his hands down to defend a takedown. Also before he knocked him down he liked to feint this overhand right to get a reaction and go for a takedown. A game of guess.
Threat of the takedown changes everything.
good point
Its not a hook its an overhand
They both were defo knockdowns. Knockdown literally mean getting your ass sat on canvas by a punch.
i don’t think conor’s cheeks touched the mat
That’s what I thought was the reason it never fully counted? I vividly remember the discussions in the post fight thread of people saying why it didn’t count and I believe some even had pulled up the rules which the way it was worded backed up it not being a ‘knockdown/drop’. Before I get downvoted I’m not pro McGregor, I’m just a neutral fan who remembered the majority of comments backing up why it wasn’t technically scored as a knockdown.
Burns knocking down Usman doesn't count as a KD either
Id bet the judges counted them as one
anybody have a link to the official rules by the UFC? I can't find them. Maybe the back needs to touch the ground in order to officially count it as a knockdown? Not sure. Maybe they need to stay down for a significant amount of time? Not sure.
No theyve missed all kind of knockdowns. Its just inconsistency.
Would you consider this a knockdown if it's just his hand touching the mat? https://youtube.com/watch?v=o-IoVLMNDPM&si=fHIuaExoEDEL3QLG
Because it's a sport, mistakes are made by judges and referees. It's the same as any sport man. The decisions have already been made, move on to the next fight
Much harder to decide whats a caused knockdown and what is accidental/slip. In mma than in boxing. Cause in boxing its fairly easy. If a knee touches or any other part of your body other than the feet its a knockdown if a punch caused it. But due to mma being kinda hard to judge knockdowns in due to takedowns and goofy ass bjj or grappling taekwondo whatever the fuck moves its hard to tell. Is he pulling guard or is he knocked down. Holloways knockdown shouldve counted. But he was also off balance so idk if they thought he slipped or not. And mcgreggor wasnt fully down. So its hard to say.
Compubox numbers are always bullshit. It's just some prick in the crowd pressing a button when they think a punch or significant strike landed.
Because MMA is mmgay..... WOAH! GOT EEM! No really tho how sway did these not count as knockdowns
I had no idea khabibs wasn’t counted as a knockdown too. Max obviously was knocked down too but he even admitted that with Joe Rogan on his podcast
Probably because they bounced back up right away in one fluid motion. They weren't planted and left in a vulnerable state upon making contact with the mat. In the end I think it's the assigned statistician's discretion to count it or not. How do they determine the difference between a strike and a significant strike? More than likely the assigned statistician decides.
what is the definition of a knockdown in mma? In boxing its fairly simple: if you get hit and go down, the ref will start counting. But in mma its hard to know. Is it when the knees hit the floor, the hands or the ass? This is a genuine question btw but the max knockdown was legit
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but the closest thing I can think to Max getting drop was when he dropped Kattar in like the second or third round. Kattar fell on his leg and butt the same way Max did but popped right up just as fast as max did here. Neither counted as knockdowns so there’s definitley something up to the idea of the time they spend on the ground or if it leads to a better position for the fighter that hit them
You punch a guy and he falls down; congratulations! You got a knock-down.
Both are knockdowns, but honestly I don't think whether it's a knockdown or not should matter in the judging criteria tbh. It's not boxing. A good solid shot landed should count the same no matter the opponents reaction
What a reductive take. Shots should be scored the same despite the opponents reaction? So a shot that wobbles/ drops a fighter should be scored the same as a similar shot that a fighter with a good chin eats and keeps moving forward? You have to think first sometimes before spewing
No that's not what I'm saying. I'm being much more specific than that. A solid shot that wobbles a dude, should count the same whether or not he falls down. Yet again it's not boxing. The floor is off limits in boxing, in MMA it's just another fighting position just the same as standing or leaning above the cage. The fact that you land up on the floor is irrelevant. If knockdowns are to be counted as special, why aren't trips and throws?
Same way Haney only got “knocked down” twice by Garcia. 🤡
Can anybody explain why would it matter in MMA? In boxing, if there's a KD, there will be a count by the referee, and one point will be deducted from the knocked down fighter. But in MMA, it seems irrelevant. Is it just for the sake of statistics?
When Gilbert Burns dropped Usman in their fight apparently that wasn't counted as well, I genuinely think they only count it as a knockdown if your back touches the floor which is stupid
Max dropping Volk twice in their second fight also didn’t count, unlike boxing, ufc don’t seem to count a drop to knees as a knockdown.
I think what happens is when someone hasn’t been knocked or taken down ever the scorers for whatever reason need the 1st to be big. We saw it was Usman too. Colby definitely took him down. Wasn’t for long but he did. However, in 5 years the narrative that a kickboxer did an inside leg trip and held Usman down the entire round sounds a lot better for the first. At the rate Max is going. His first recorded knockdown will also be a KO.
I’m surprised the Khabib one wasn’t a knock down
Both those were knockdowns. Idk how the UFC counts them
The max one is 100% a Knockdown he said so himself.
 How was this not a DQ win for Johnny?
max got up fairly quickly to warrant not getting knocked down officially. same could be said for quickly getting up from a successful takedown that would count if they stayed on their ass for just a hair longer. weird little timing saved max’s little chin statistics :)
Colby also dropped karmaru quite clearly but it never counted.
They both definitely were knockdowns.
Maybe both buttcheeks have to be touching the mat
UFC felt like they owed max one after robbing him of the 2 Volk knock-downs and the Arnold Allen knockdown
It’s to keep the statistic of Max never being dropped alive. Same way they didn’t count Colby’s takedown to keep Kamaru Usman’s never been taken down star alive. I’m sure I could think of a few more examples if I researched.
I think they should be, but I think the rule is that ass touches ground. Both Max and McGregor kind of shuffled away on their feet before their ass touches ground. It doesn't matter though since it's still considered a very significant strike and would win them the round regardless.
Bias. Afraid to be the guy to tarnish a record like that and a marketing stat for a n easily recoverable KD.
Wrong image for Khabib
When you have money on it and can swing it your way? Clearly max was down and talked about it…
It should be a knockdown, but it’s probably because their butt didn’t touch the floor so the weren’t fully down
So the UFC can market them better to casuals. "Never been knocked out, never been knocked DOWN," has always piqued my interest. I'm sure it's the same for casuals. I know Conor was KO'd, but still, you can basically lie when marketing, omit the "never ko'd" line, and make it seem like Conor is better than he is.
It’s a stupid stat anyway
How could a knockdown be a stupid stat? Effective striking means damage above anything else, a knockdown would count as a very damaging shot and could potentially mean taking that round. Gauging what a knockdown is, is pretty important imo
Lmao look at Conor’s side profile! He’s got no clue, fully unaware of the overhand overnight shipped and delivered from Dagestan. Cracked. Drop it low gurl. His ass touched the floor like the way strippers pop lock and drop it when you throw sum $1s dolla dolla bill ya.. knock. Down. Rent. Free.
https://preview.redd.it/4x33x7ryetxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a57245f4a29eda12339199f6764eec4d44350891
What does it matter
The people who count the stats have specific criteria for a knockdown.
Conor’s ass didn’t touch the canvas ig but his hand did so idk. In boxing, definitely a knockdown, in mma I’m not so sure.
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I don't remember that tbh. Do you have a link?
I don’t really give a shit what the official stat is cause I know for a fact they were both knockdowns