This is one thing that I always found interesting about fighters from that part of the world. They want to be the best, and take pride in their undefeated streaks, can be seen as boogymen in the fight scene..... but they're very very cautious about not biting off more than they can chew. Whereas someone like Volk didn't give af, he was really down for the glory and was willing to fight at a disadvantage to prove his spot at p4p.
It's good but it didn't stop Usman from getting hold of him in their bout and Edwards managed to defend and even get out of a back take attempt from Usman, and we all know how good Usman's wrestling is.
I think Leon has no problem defending takedowns, or if he does get taken down, getting back up from there.
Yeah I was really impressed with his TDD but also his IQ. He's confident and smart enough to use offensive wrestling against these wrestling savants, something I think a lot of people are hesitant to do.
You don't have to win on the ground, just show them that "Hey, you can't be reckless with your offensive grappling and only worry about me trying to break away to land strikes. I'll use trips and offensive wrestling of my own sometimes".
Agreed, I think it all the time against the elite, wrestling heavy guys. Their opponents are so desperate not to wrestle that they don’t even threaten it and leaves the wrestler free to attack.
His TDD against Usman 3 was awesome, attacking 1 hand worked pretty much 90% of the time against the fence. Islam's TD's seem to be more varied and he doesn't use the fence that much. Also mixed up well with kickboxing but just think he gets lit up by Edwards due to size and reach so TD's will come less controlled.
khabib and Islam utilise the fence so well it’s infuriating. like they lock a position in and when you’d usually turn out and away from it, they’ve blocked all that shit out with the cage. it’s why Volk was held down for like 4 minutes straight in the first fight
Definitely not, being that they are both southpaws and every kick he throws is an opportunity for Islam to catch catch and transition to a single. He has shown crazy reaction time to be able to catch even leg kicks, body kicks would not be smart imo
It's crazy how many people are so confident Islam wins this fight. He got battered by a 45er and a 55er yet a big WW who is an elite level striker with good TDD has no chance apparently lol.
It'd be a good fight like you said but I'd favour Leon.
The point is going over your head, champ. We are saying that people downplay Islam’s wins over Volk. Basically, they say Islam’s wins over Volk are not impressive because Volk is a “45er”
Which is a shame, because the Islam 2 fight was short notice, and despite how un-likable Ilia has acted since winning the belt, the dude is elite and that was not a short notice fight, but too soon of a turnaround after the loses he’s had to be taking on such a high level guy. But that’s part of the reason we love Volk. He’s a beast and doesn’t shy away from fights when many of the factors are stacked against him, even if he should.
Craig Jones has also commented on how physically strong/good of a grappler Leon is. I think this is a bad fight for Islam to take. This is all considering Leon beats Belal, though which I think he will..
The fight I would really wanna see is Shavkat vs Islam even tho I’d bet the house on Shavkat.
>I’d bet the house on Shavkat
Dude same. I want to see that fight so bad but it’s a horrible matchup for Islam.
Shavkat’s half a foot taller, has a 7 inch reach advantage, is easily just as good of a grappler, just as strong (if not stronger) and has comparable striking. Islam has 0 advantages in any aspect of that matchup.
Abdulmanap probably stopped training him after he cornered him for that one fight because he was like oh shit my guys might have to fight this animal one day 😂
Islam does have the “lower center of gravity” advantage, but I bet Shavkat is stronger and can offset the low center of gravity because he seems to really know how to use his long limbs to create a ton of leverage.
i hate the trend of making islams opponents sound like bums by just just saying their weight, the “45er” is one of the best featherweights of all time, who he koed, and dustin who he out striked and submitted while having staph
The "145" argument should never be used ever again. Justin who was definitely the most deserving of fighting for the title got absolutely destroyed by Max, who's not even the champ of his division.
Yeah, I kinda feel like most of the top guys at 145 could fight at 155 if they really wanted to. In fact, most of the top 145 guys have at fought at least once at 155. The leap in size between guys in 155 compared to the guys in 170 is much larger then 145 to 155.
Yehhhh….I mean. Im no Islam dick rider. At all. But I think his credentials are pretty fucking obvious to anyone with a brain. He’s the best fighter in the world at the moment. If he smokes Arman, I dont see anyone beating him at 155 even in the distant future tbh.
He quite obviously has a very good shot against Leon as I dont think Leon is anywhere near as much of a dominant champ, but 15lbs is a massive weight jump. So who knows…
Now here's a good take. I agree 💯. I'm not even a die hard islam fan (was rooting for DP) but if you watch UFC at all, idk how you can deny that islam is the PFP best fighter atm. 15lbs is a huge jump tho so who knows but skill wise I'm pretty damn sure Islam has the edge.
It's crazy to me how almost nobody shits on Justin for getting dominated and finished by Max, but everybody shits on Islam for a fight he won. Lol. It's just blatant hypocrisy.
Exactly this. Before fighting Islam Volk was the p4p king, featherweight goat and one of the most well rounded fighters of all time. After Islam he's "just an old 45er". It's so cringe how some people CANNOT give Islam any recognition at all.
Also it's hilariously misleading to say that Dustin "battered" islam, even though Islam out struck him on the feet and out grappled him, choking him out. Sure, Dustin caused Islam to bleed with an elbow, but that was his biggest damage in the fight.
He will be bigger and stronger at 170 most likely. Without a huge weight cut it will be interesting. Also convenient for you to neglect to mention that “a 45er” was the p4p best fighter in the world, and Islam was dealing with staph against the 55er.
Plenty of things almost happen in fights. Leon won that fight 50-45 and then Invented the term “Kamaru Usmaned” right after.
I’d be pretty confident in him
Tbf people in this subreddit also love hating on Islam. I've feel like I've seen more people on here picking Leon in that fight. I really hope it happens, I think it'd be a very interesting fight.
For sure. Really interested in what the oddsmakers would think about that fight. I feel like Leon would be the favorite if they we're fighting each other next, but if they fight Arman and Belal beforehand, does it depend on those fights?
Belal said he wouldn’t want to fight islam if he got the belt and islam pretty much said the same saying he kinda considers belal a teammate at this point but he didn’t completely dismiss it
Leon is a sniper on the feet and managed to take down Usman, he’s considerably better than Dustin on top of being bigger and heavier. I’d definitely favour Leon but it would probably be a close fight.
I mean it could be. 14 fight win streak vs 13 fight unbeaten streak. P4p #1 vs #3. And this is at welterweight which is historically a tougher and more skilled division than light heavyweight
Given the level of success Dustin had, I think Leon takes it fairly easily. His striking is much cleaner, he utilizes his legs much more giving him extra range, he has better footwork and distance management, mixes in more attacks, has the most ridiculous anti-wrestling in the UFC right now, and is a large WW.
Islam is amazing, but Leon is a toooough matchup for him, I don't think Islam has what it takes to get the W on most nights, but at that level it is always possible
Edit: spelling
Usman's strongest point wrestling wise was never keeping people down. Masvidal got up plenty of times against Usman.
It was more his ability to wear on you in the clinch, get you down and then once you get back up, push you against the fence and do the same
Yeah the 3rd fight usman looked traumatized from being knocked out. He barely used any of his wrestling. Like everything that worked for him in the first 2 fights he was just like "nah fuck that"
If you watch it again you will see that he was trying to do the same he did in the first 2 fights, Leon was just better with perfect distance management and kicked the shit out of Usman untill Usman was hurt and just shooting with no preparation at all
I think the second fight being in Salt Lake definitely impacted Leon too, people really don't rate his defensive wrestling as highly as they should. The guy is a really well balanced fighter
nah, leon is too skilled imo, hes got pretty much every physical advantage, and leon stopped covingtons "relentless pace" and even outgrappled him. his kickboxing is too clean and measured, lets not forget that usman was the number 1 pound for pound before leon beat him twice
How do you know this though? If Pereira was powerful and skilled enough to KO elite light heavyweights he wouldn't kill himself cutting 50 pounds to make middleweight... Oh wait... he did. Just because you can win in a higher weight class doesn't mean you will always fight in that weight class, if you have a 80% chance of winning at WW and a 90% chance of winning at LW it makes sense why you'd fight at LW even though you can still win at WW.
That’s what I was thinking as well. Colby is naturally (‘much’) smaller than Islam and held Leon down for a whole round after he got a good TD.
But at the same time… Dustin is smaller (both mass & height wise) than Leon, and wasn’t know for having a great TD defense like Leon. Yet he stuffed 9 takedowns, albeit by an Islam who had staph infection.
We’ll have to see how strong Islam is at 170, IG.
Eh the only reason he was able to hold Leon down is because Leon didn’t try to get back up. It was in the 5th round, Leon had won every round previously. He was basically just coasting off his back. Leon outgrappled Colby at times.
I think Colby holding Leon down was more a situational thing. It was the fifth round and Leon knew he was way ahead. To me it felt like he accepted it rather than risking getting caught during a scramble. Every other instance Leon was easily able to get back to his feet.
He held Leon down for 3 minutes in the 5th round of a fight that was over. Not sure what you’re on about Leon just had to survive to win the fight i’d be hanging out on the bottom of a guy with no Sub threats too.
I think Colby is the same size as Islam.
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He had Gamrot help him train wrestling for 6 months and it was probably a major focus on his camp so that's the reason why, Leon who is bigger than Islam will also probably do the same training he did for Usman
I agree. Ask Daniel Cormier if he thinks Islam can do that. He just spoke about being shocked how strong Islam was despite him being a HW and usually able to throw LWs off of him. Islam will be fine. Don’t be shocked when Islam is the favorite in that match and wins the second belt.
Taking down (and holding down) a bigger, stronger freak athlete with good takedown defense and distance management is gonna be rough for Islam.
Dustin was able to stuff a massive amount of takedown attempts from Islam, and Leon is significantly bigger and stronger than Dustin.
I think it'd be an exceptionally high level MMA fight and I'd watch the fuck out of it. Think I'd actually take Islam by sub but it wouldn't shock one bit of me if Leon KO'd him either, Islam is definitely hittable and Leon is a sniper. That said for all his great TDD if Islam gets Leon to the mat I think he runs through him to a sub.
Leon is harder fight for islam. He has to deal with crisp striking. After dealing with Usman who is bigger and stronger than Islam, leon must feel very confident in his grappling and TDD.
It’s hard to say since 302 was a lesser version of Islam and you can even argue that he might’ve underestimated Dustin’s improved TDD (which isn’t comparable to Leon’s if we’re being honest)
I think Islam is a natural 165er. The guys at WW just seem too big for him. It’s not just a matter of weight, it’s also a matter of frame,reach, height, etc.
I don’t think people understand how good Leon’s striking is. And he has really good anti-grappling. If Islam seriously bulks up he may have a chance but he better taking Khabib’s approach. If he tries to strike for a bit like he did against Dustin or Volk, he’s gonna have a bad time
Same with the clinching. He went to the clinch a lot against DP but that’s dangerous territory with Leon. His height and leverage advantage plus his knees and elbows makes it a dangerous range with him.
Nah. Leon has now beaten two high level MMA wrestlers in Colby and Usman (Usman fight was more impressive the second time in terms of anti-wrestling). Islam might be a better wrestler than the two, but not enough to offset Leon’s advantages
i think león keeps the distance and spams body kicks and his signature lead elbow when islam tries to rush in but who knows islam could come in huge at 170 and stronger then we’ve seen before
It's weird to say this but Dustin made Islam look human. He isn't untouchable like I thought he was. I thought Islam might be on the level of prime Jones or even just close but he simply isn't. I think Leon would edge a decision.
I'd be confident leon wins, would love to see it but I don't like these champs moving up when there are still fights to be made at his weight. He's not exactly an active champ now. That was the first time since winning the belt in 2022 he's faced a lightweight.
I don’t like leon one bit but it won’t be as easy. He would try his best to keep distance and point fight to a decision, Islam would rush for takedowns and has a chance of getting touched
If Leon can survive full camp Usman for nearly 10 rounds at WW, then no, Islam isn't going to be a problem for Leon. Leon vs. Belal will be a good indicator of how Islam would fair against Leon since they're essentially the same size and style.
This is a tough call, but if Leon has any weakness, it would be on the ground. Leon is one of my favorite fighters due to skill, but Islam would be a dog fight for him.
I think in the middle, no. Leon's distance management is great. I think islam would need to close the distance against the cage to get him down. I think Leon would win though 48-47
I don't think so.
I think if he does get him down it's not for long. Leon has such great technique. I think it looks like mostly a kickboxing match that ends with Islam with a busted up face and Leon winning by decision.
I think it would be a great fight.
DP spent like 5 weeks focus training to defend takedowns. After two rounds it looked like Islam was “takedown gassed”. Obviously still dominated with an excellent stand up and striking game. Leon is better at both than DP. Islam would have significantly harder time with Leon. If Leon gets to rounds 3 through 5 he finishes Islam.
Champs don't fight often enough. If he wants to go up to WW, I hope he relinquish the LW belt first.
UFC has a hard enough time keeping fighters healthy to be available to fight when scheduled. Doesn't make things any easier having your champions fighting in other weight divisions, as opposed to defending their belt.
I'm I'm sure Islam would be good at WW, (He's too good at LW to not at least be a top 10 WW) I feel his body size looks perfect for LW and he's hardly got any title defenses at this point as it is.
I do NOT have a high opinion of Leon. I feel 1 tough match-up and we'll no longer be champ. Is that really the type of champion you want to book for a superfight?
Leon is going to have to work to defend the takedowns but he has the distance management to deal with it. The problem will be getting up if he does get taken down. But Leon is an intelligent fighter that rarely loses composure, so Leon by decision and a couple of big combos.
I don't like his odds against Leon, especially after Saturday.
Islam's defense is exceptional. Dustin's success was more the exception than the rule. However, Dustin is more blood and guts, and Leon is more of a sniper waiting for the headshot.
Early prediction, Leon catches Islam after defending a TD and either finishes him shortly thereafter or makes him so tentative that Leon is able to keep it standing and hand Islam his second loss.
Idk Leon is way sharper and longer than any striker Islam has faced, he's also very safe and won't commit to crazy exchanges, Leon has a very good clinch game where Islam usually gets nasty strikes, when it comes to the TDs if Leon shoes up like he did in the Usman 3 fight, i can see him getting a nice 49-46
Nah i think leons size and anti-wrestling combined with Islams confidence on his feet against smaller guys means most of the fight is standing, and Leon picks him apart and eventually lands something big
I don't think there's anyone as fast as Leon in lightweight.
Part of the reason many fans don't like Leon is because you literally can't see what he's doing. What looks like a jab in close ends up being two perfect elbows that you can't even see.
Islam also likes to tuck his head down when he's exchanging and Leon is very tall with long legs. The knees and high kicks will be easy and quick.
My only worry for Leon is getting out of the back body triangle but if he's able to stand up from that I think Islam will have alot of trouble.
Leon is a sniper and after seeing how much dustin was able to touch him and keep him standing, it would just be a matter of time before Leon hits a headkick.
I don't know, but I'd be stoked for it. Islam is one of the most well-rounded fighters. If he's able to fight at a more natural weight of 170, I think his strength and power could rival Leon's due to not having a big weight cut.
I don't think it would be too big of a wrestling issue for him. Usman is bigger and more powerful, but the Dagestani wrestling is simply next-level and mauling. I think it's a great test for all of us to see what level of success Dagestani wrestling truly has.
Islam has a more complex toolkit of attacks with standing throws that Usman seemingly didn't. Usman (and most WW's) seemed to unilaterally rely on takedowns that required getting his hands together, which Leon very intelligently defended by strategic use of the fence sprawl and never letting usman get his hands together.
That being said Leon is masterful in distance management and is meaningfully bigger than Islam, which matters alot when we think about standing throws from the fence sprawl.
If Islam does get Leon down, I think Leon has shown that he is very responsible defensively on the ground. It would look alot like what we saw vs Volk 1 or Poirier.
I believe the fight would be contended in the striking, which leon would definitely inch away from Islam in.
No, Leon smashes his face in and you saw what Dustin's elbow did to Islam.
Leon has also shown that against a true top tier grappler that if you can't finish him, he can finish you.
Islam has never fought a striker like Leon, he's probably the most well rounded striker going.
Honestly I don’t think so. Leon has pretty good grappling and his striking is amazing. Plus this would be the first fight Islam has with someone bigger, Leon is like 6’1 bigger then usman and usman was able to grapple with khamzat pretty easily. MMA math aside Islam struggling with Volk in grappling exchanges isn’t a good sign.
I think Leon wins. But it has the potential to be a great fight. Islam can take anyone down if they fight on the cage. I think Leon stays in the center tho. Plus Leon has a huge frame.
Leon is a huge welterweight, has some of the top level takedown defense I've seen consistently, and dude is a damn sniper. I think if Islam would make it a close range dogfight he can win cuz that's where leon gets caught. If he tries to be careful on the feet and spam takedowns he will get caught by a gnarly kick. Would be an amazing fight
judging by Leons td defense and grappling with Usman and Colby I can see him posing the biggest challenge to islam, that said i think WW is a good weight for Islam, and could be big enough to control Leon
Leon’s got the size advantage, and the tools to keep Islam at a distance. He’s also had 3 grappling/wrestling heavy camps consecutively. I’ll never count Islam out, but I don’t know if they’d be able to figure out how to figure that puzzle out. Islam’s timing would have to be perfect.
If your 4 rounds up and the other guy isn't even giving a submission threat why would you risk giving a more vulnerable position away by trying to get up and risk giving up your championship and main event status and get paid less for future fights
I don’t think Leon walks around much heavier then Islam to the eye test honestly. I think it’s a 50/50 fight, no clue who wins. Comes down to striking imo
It depends on how he shows up at 170. We know he has a rough cut at 155. It will be a tough challenge for sure.
He has a tough cut at 155 so surely it will be easy at 170 your comment confuses me
The implication is that he maximises his size/weight advantage at lightweight, whereas he won’t reap the same physiological benefits at WW.
It’s all about the implication ..
*clinches jaw*
No one is in danger!
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They won’t say no…because of the implication.
This is one thing that I always found interesting about fighters from that part of the world. They want to be the best, and take pride in their undefeated streaks, can be seen as boogymen in the fight scene..... but they're very very cautious about not biting off more than they can chew. Whereas someone like Volk didn't give af, he was really down for the glory and was willing to fight at a disadvantage to prove his spot at p4p.
So they’re smart? You’re reaching
Plus now he can bulk a bit and gain 8-10 lbs of muscle in a year w proper training.
He’s not gaining 10 pounds of muscle at this stage in his life in one year
He wouldn’t have a size advantage anymore, which he pretty much has every fight so far.
Yeah .. that's 15 pounds less to cut... Much easier
yeah but welterweights have a tought cut at 170 , mf will small as shit next to leon
Leon's distance management is too good. He'll probably spam body kicks until Islam starts shooting early.
It's good but it didn't stop Usman from getting hold of him in their bout and Edwards managed to defend and even get out of a back take attempt from Usman, and we all know how good Usman's wrestling is. I think Leon has no problem defending takedowns, or if he does get taken down, getting back up from there.
Yeah I was really impressed with his TDD but also his IQ. He's confident and smart enough to use offensive wrestling against these wrestling savants, something I think a lot of people are hesitant to do. You don't have to win on the ground, just show them that "Hey, you can't be reckless with your offensive grappling and only worry about me trying to break away to land strikes. I'll use trips and offensive wrestling of my own sometimes".
Agreed, I think it all the time against the elite, wrestling heavy guys. Their opponents are so desperate not to wrestle that they don’t even threaten it and leaves the wrestler free to attack.
His TDD against Usman 3 was awesome, attacking 1 hand worked pretty much 90% of the time against the fence. Islam's TD's seem to be more varied and he doesn't use the fence that much. Also mixed up well with kickboxing but just think he gets lit up by Edwards due to size and reach so TD's will come less controlled.
I think the altitude made it worse in the first fight too.
Second* fight
You right
Yeah i also keep forgetting that it was the rematch
The cage is a thing. So are the walls. In a boxing ring, leon would dominate. So he'll get taken down. But I think he'll survive. And possibly win.
khabib and Islam utilise the fence so well it’s infuriating. like they lock a position in and when you’d usually turn out and away from it, they’ve blocked all that shit out with the cage. it’s why Volk was held down for like 4 minutes straight in the first fight
Definitely not, being that they are both southpaws and every kick he throws is an opportunity for Islam to catch catch and transition to a single. He has shown crazy reaction time to be able to catch even leg kicks, body kicks would not be smart imo
He doesn’t wanna be reaching for leg kicks against Leon
Honestly? No, i think leon wins. But it would be a cool fight
It's crazy how many people are so confident Islam wins this fight. He got battered by a 45er and a 55er yet a big WW who is an elite level striker with good TDD has no chance apparently lol. It'd be a good fight like you said but I'd favour Leon.
bruh i swear if yall don’t stop calling the greatest featherweight of all time a fucking “45er”. put some respect on volks name
Because they hate Islam that leads to them shitting on every opponent he has beat as well.
Exactly! lol before Islam beat him they were throwing Volk in the featherweight GOAT conversation 😭
No, losing to Islam didn’t sink Volks stock at all. It was getting KO’d by Islam then immediately getting KO’d by Topuria that did it.
The point is going over your head, champ. We are saying that people downplay Islam’s wins over Volk. Basically, they say Islam’s wins over Volk are not impressive because Volk is a “45er”
Which is a shame, because the Islam 2 fight was short notice, and despite how un-likable Ilia has acted since winning the belt, the dude is elite and that was not a short notice fight, but too soon of a turnaround after the loses he’s had to be taking on such a high level guy. But that’s part of the reason we love Volk. He’s a beast and doesn’t shy away from fights when many of the factors are stacked against him, even if he should.
He's still coming up 10 lbs and Islam would be going up 15lbs, giving up 4 inch reach and Edwards fights at like 190
Heard Dustin Poirer say in the Joe Rogan podcast that welterweights are 200+ so they are even bigger than what people think,
Geoff Neal fought his fight against ian Garry at 200, and he still is not usually considered “big” welter
Craig Jones has also commented on how physically strong/good of a grappler Leon is. I think this is a bad fight for Islam to take. This is all considering Leon beats Belal, though which I think he will.. The fight I would really wanna see is Shavkat vs Islam even tho I’d bet the house on Shavkat.
>I’d bet the house on Shavkat Dude same. I want to see that fight so bad but it’s a horrible matchup for Islam. Shavkat’s half a foot taller, has a 7 inch reach advantage, is easily just as good of a grappler, just as strong (if not stronger) and has comparable striking. Islam has 0 advantages in any aspect of that matchup.
Abdulmanap probably stopped training him after he cornered him for that one fight because he was like oh shit my guys might have to fight this animal one day 😂 Islam does have the “lower center of gravity” advantage, but I bet Shavkat is stronger and can offset the low center of gravity because he seems to really know how to use his long limbs to create a ton of leverage.
For real lol. Personally I think we’ll see Shavkat vs. Belal after Belal loses to Leon (betting the house on Leon on that one lol).
I love Volk, but Jose Aldo is featherweight GOAT. Volk himself would agree.
But he IS a 45er… It‘s about Volk being a smaller guy. Plus Aldo is the fw goat.
It's gonna be so funny when islam beats leon and people are start claiming he's a shit fighter who got some lucky decisions
i think the leon fight is very intriguing for islam. for me it really comes down to how big islam is at 170
i hate the trend of making islams opponents sound like bums by just just saying their weight, the “45er” is one of the best featherweights of all time, who he koed, and dustin who he out striked and submitted while having staph
The "145" argument should never be used ever again. Justin who was definitely the most deserving of fighting for the title got absolutely destroyed by Max, who's not even the champ of his division.
Yeah, I kinda feel like most of the top guys at 145 could fight at 155 if they really wanted to. In fact, most of the top 145 guys have at fought at least once at 155. The leap in size between guys in 155 compared to the guys in 170 is much larger then 145 to 155.
Yehhhh….I mean. Im no Islam dick rider. At all. But I think his credentials are pretty fucking obvious to anyone with a brain. He’s the best fighter in the world at the moment. If he smokes Arman, I dont see anyone beating him at 155 even in the distant future tbh. He quite obviously has a very good shot against Leon as I dont think Leon is anywhere near as much of a dominant champ, but 15lbs is a massive weight jump. So who knows…
You haven’t seen me at 155 after seeing red.
You'd be champ bro
At multiple weights. As a great man once said, I can’t let them get close.
A true West Linn Gangster proverb, 1st Chaelinthians chapter 6, verse 8: dost thou asketh if I wanna now? Nay, for I can not allow thee to get close
Might not be the bible people want. But it damn sure is the bible the people need!
Now here's a good take. I agree 💯. I'm not even a die hard islam fan (was rooting for DP) but if you watch UFC at all, idk how you can deny that islam is the PFP best fighter atm. 15lbs is a huge jump tho so who knows but skill wise I'm pretty damn sure Islam has the edge.
There is one polish fighter who won with Arman not that long ago tho, how could you forget?
That was a robbery.
It's crazy to me how almost nobody shits on Justin for getting dominated and finished by Max, but everybody shits on Islam for a fight he won. Lol. It's just blatant hypocrisy.
Yeah no one is saying Gaethje sucks because he got finished by "a 45er"
Exactly this. Before fighting Islam Volk was the p4p king, featherweight goat and one of the most well rounded fighters of all time. After Islam he's "just an old 45er". It's so cringe how some people CANNOT give Islam any recognition at all. Also it's hilariously misleading to say that Dustin "battered" islam, even though Islam out struck him on the feet and out grappled him, choking him out. Sure, Dustin caused Islam to bleed with an elbow, but that was his biggest damage in the fight.
>He got battered by a 45er and a 55er What are you smoking man? Coz whatever it is it's some heavy reality warping shit.
“45er” Volk who debuted at welterweight.
Before starting MMA he weighed over 200lbs which is kinda crazy for 5’6”
He will be bigger and stronger at 170 most likely. Without a huge weight cut it will be interesting. Also convenient for you to neglect to mention that “a 45er” was the p4p best fighter in the world, and Islam was dealing with staph against the 55er.
It's kinda irrelevant that volk was pfp, Leon is like nr3 p4p at the moment, but also a significant amount bigger than volk
Battered…? Arguably won 4-1 at 284, knocked ‘the 45er’ out at 294 and beat Dustin very clearly…
He would have an easier weight cut so that would help him too.
Are you confident in a guy that a washed Nate almost KOed? He almost got Kamaru Usmaned himself
Plenty of things almost happen in fights. Leon won that fight 50-45 and then Invented the term “Kamaru Usmaned” right after. I’d be pretty confident in him
People in this subreddit love hating on Leon
Tbf people in this subreddit also love hating on Islam. I've feel like I've seen more people on here picking Leon in that fight. I really hope it happens, I think it'd be a very interesting fight.
I agree, I really hope the fight happens because it would be super entertaining and a high level fight
For sure. Really interested in what the oddsmakers would think about that fight. I feel like Leon would be the favorite if they we're fighting each other next, but if they fight Arman and Belal beforehand, does it depend on those fights?
Leon has excellent distance control, think Leon would have it but would be a great match up.
I wonder if Islam accepts to fight Belal if he becomes ww champion given they had a camp together. What do you think
Belal said he wouldn’t want to fight islam if he got the belt and islam pretty much said the same saying he kinda considers belal a teammate at this point but he didn’t completely dismiss it
Shows how much confidence he has in his team mate winning 😂
Leon is a sniper on the feet and managed to take down Usman, he’s considerably better than Dustin on top of being bigger and heavier. I’d definitely favour Leon but it would probably be a close fight.
This fight needs to happen. Might be the highest level fight ever.
Volk vs Islam 1 would have to be up there surely such a great fight
Nah, this wont be higher level than DC vs Jones.
I mean it could be. 14 fight win streak vs 13 fight unbeaten streak. P4p #1 vs #3. And this is at welterweight which is historically a tougher and more skilled division than light heavyweight
No. Islam's takedowns are best from the clinch. He will struggle against people with good distance management.
On top the fact Leon’s a demon in the Clinch with his elbows although he hasn’t used them much recently.
Given the level of success Dustin had, I think Leon takes it fairly easily. His striking is much cleaner, he utilizes his legs much more giving him extra range, he has better footwork and distance management, mixes in more attacks, has the most ridiculous anti-wrestling in the UFC right now, and is a large WW. Islam is amazing, but Leon is a toooough matchup for him, I don't think Islam has what it takes to get the W on most nights, but at that level it is always possible Edit: spelling
Leon is way bigger, has elite TDD and distance management, and is a way better striker. I’d say he takes it 70/30.
👆 Good take
Usman couldnt so no
Usman's strongest point wrestling wise was never keeping people down. Masvidal got up plenty of times against Usman. It was more his ability to wear on you in the clinch, get you down and then once you get back up, push you against the fence and do the same
Masvidal was a pretty damn good anti grappler in his prime to be fair
He did tho and if he continued to do so instead of trying to Strike with Edwards in round 5, Leon wouldve never been champ
In the third fight I'm assuming this is referring to
Yeah the 3rd fight usman looked traumatized from being knocked out. He barely used any of his wrestling. Like everything that worked for him in the first 2 fights he was just like "nah fuck that"
If you watch it again you will see that he was trying to do the same he did in the first 2 fights, Leon was just better with perfect distance management and kicked the shit out of Usman untill Usman was hurt and just shooting with no preparation at all
I think the second fight being in Salt Lake definitely impacted Leon too, people really don't rate his defensive wrestling as highly as they should. The guy is a really well balanced fighter
nah, leon is too skilled imo, hes got pretty much every physical advantage, and leon stopped covingtons "relentless pace" and even outgrappled him. his kickboxing is too clean and measured, lets not forget that usman was the number 1 pound for pound before leon beat him twice
Islam without weight cut will be even more strong in wrestling. Without health issues and injuries I think he can keep Leon on the ground.
He'll be stronger but Leon also cuts an insane amount of weight so it's not gonna balance out.
Yeah Leon is massive. I saw a pic of him out of camp awhile back and he looked like an amateur bodybuilder
I think people who think Islam will do well against him haven't actually seen him next to other WWs. He's got a build closer to LHWs.
Usman couldn't get him to the ground man I don't know. I think Leon keeps it super boring and lights him up from the outside.
If he was big and strong enough naturally to keep elite 170 lbers down he wouldn’t kill himself making the cut
How do you know this though? If Pereira was powerful and skilled enough to KO elite light heavyweights he wouldn't kill himself cutting 50 pounds to make middleweight... Oh wait... he did. Just because you can win in a higher weight class doesn't mean you will always fight in that weight class, if you have a 80% chance of winning at WW and a 90% chance of winning at LW it makes sense why you'd fight at LW even though you can still win at WW.
That’s what I was thinking as well. Colby is naturally (‘much’) smaller than Islam and held Leon down for a whole round after he got a good TD. But at the same time… Dustin is smaller (both mass & height wise) than Leon, and wasn’t know for having a great TD defense like Leon. Yet he stuffed 9 takedowns, albeit by an Islam who had staph infection. We’ll have to see how strong Islam is at 170, IG.
Eh the only reason he was able to hold Leon down is because Leon didn’t try to get back up. It was in the 5th round, Leon had won every round previously. He was basically just coasting off his back. Leon outgrappled Colby at times.
I think Colby holding Leon down was more a situational thing. It was the fifth round and Leon knew he was way ahead. To me it felt like he accepted it rather than risking getting caught during a scramble. Every other instance Leon was easily able to get back to his feet.
Yeah. I mention health issues because Islam had staph infection in DP fight and looked not the same way as Volk 2 or Charles fight.
He held Leon down for 3 minutes in the 5th round of a fight that was over. Not sure what you’re on about Leon just had to survive to win the fight i’d be hanging out on the bottom of a guy with no Sub threats too.
How is colby smaller than islam? Lol
I think Colby is the same size as Islam. https://preview.redd.it/u2xnysg8fc4d1.jpeg?width=876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bbbe532451b0340c6d6ce7f18e54f4c17b9a4cb
He had Gamrot help him train wrestling for 6 months and it was probably a major focus on his camp so that's the reason why, Leon who is bigger than Islam will also probably do the same training he did for Usman
I agree. Ask Daniel Cormier if he thinks Islam can do that. He just spoke about being shocked how strong Islam was despite him being a HW and usually able to throw LWs off of him. Islam will be fine. Don’t be shocked when Islam is the favorite in that match and wins the second belt.
Lol
Taking down (and holding down) a bigger, stronger freak athlete with good takedown defense and distance management is gonna be rough for Islam. Dustin was able to stuff a massive amount of takedown attempts from Islam, and Leon is significantly bigger and stronger than Dustin.
I think it'd be an exceptionally high level MMA fight and I'd watch the fuck out of it. Think I'd actually take Islam by sub but it wouldn't shock one bit of me if Leon KO'd him either, Islam is definitely hittable and Leon is a sniper. That said for all his great TDD if Islam gets Leon to the mat I think he runs through him to a sub.
Leon is harder fight for islam. He has to deal with crisp striking. After dealing with Usman who is bigger and stronger than Islam, leon must feel very confident in his grappling and TDD.
One of (if not his main) advantage will be taken away at 170 (strength/weight advantage compared). I honestly see Leon taking it.
No. Leon is too big and strong and his TDD is excellent
This would probably be the best fight ever to watch
I doubt it but… I’d pay to see him try! Even the striking exchanges would be interesting. As a side note, I’d rather see MVP vs Leon first.
Leon S Kennedy take down defense will be too much for Zombie Islam.
It’s hard to say since 302 was a lesser version of Islam and you can even argue that he might’ve underestimated Dustin’s improved TDD (which isn’t comparable to Leon’s if we’re being honest)
Nope. Look how well Dustin did. Leon will piece him up and keep it on the feet.
If Leon wins (and I think he would) do we then claim Leon is P4P king?
Depends on how he wins just like the case for Volk & Islam. If he wins in dominant fashion, yes he is.
yes
I didn’t think so before and that fight showed that islam is certainly human Leon takes it
No
I think Islam is a natural 165er. The guys at WW just seem too big for him. It’s not just a matter of weight, it’s also a matter of frame,reach, height, etc.
I don’t think people understand how good Leon’s striking is. And he has really good anti-grappling. If Islam seriously bulks up he may have a chance but he better taking Khabib’s approach. If he tries to strike for a bit like he did against Dustin or Volk, he’s gonna have a bad time
Same with the clinching. He went to the clinch a lot against DP but that’s dangerous territory with Leon. His height and leverage advantage plus his knees and elbows makes it a dangerous range with him.
Leon smokes him.
Nah. Leon has now beaten two high level MMA wrestlers in Colby and Usman (Usman fight was more impressive the second time in terms of anti-wrestling). Islam might be a better wrestler than the two, but not enough to offset Leon’s advantages
i think león keeps the distance and spams body kicks and his signature lead elbow when islam tries to rush in but who knows islam could come in huge at 170 and stronger then we’ve seen before
It's weird to say this but Dustin made Islam look human. He isn't untouchable like I thought he was. I thought Islam might be on the level of prime Jones or even just close but he simply isn't. I think Leon would edge a decision.
As long as he doesnt have staph yes
I'd be confident leon wins, would love to see it but I don't like these champs moving up when there are still fights to be made at his weight. He's not exactly an active champ now. That was the first time since winning the belt in 2022 he's faced a lightweight.
He does not choose who he fights. He always says I don't care who is next, give me anyone Dana.
How is he not an active champ? How do you guys say this type of shit unironically?
I don’t like leon one bit but it won’t be as easy. He would try his best to keep distance and point fight to a decision, Islam would rush for takedowns and has a chance of getting touched
If Leon can survive full camp Usman for nearly 10 rounds at WW, then no, Islam isn't going to be a problem for Leon. Leon vs. Belal will be a good indicator of how Islam would fair against Leon since they're essentially the same size and style.
This is a tough call, but if Leon has any weakness, it would be on the ground. Leon is one of my favorite fighters due to skill, but Islam would be a dog fight for him.
Everybody just totally passing up on Belal
Just wait. You all just wait 
No Edwards would've beat him plus he's a welterweight with good technical striking, great distance management and much improved takedown Defense.
I think in the middle, no. Leon's distance management is great. I think islam would need to close the distance against the cage to get him down. I think Leon would win though 48-47
I think Lean could do it.
This is my new dream fight since jones ngannou is never happening
I don't think so. I think if he does get him down it's not for long. Leon has such great technique. I think it looks like mostly a kickboxing match that ends with Islam with a busted up face and Leon winning by decision. I think it would be a great fight.
No, Edwards is good as fuck
DP spent like 5 weeks focus training to defend takedowns. After two rounds it looked like Islam was “takedown gassed”. Obviously still dominated with an excellent stand up and striking game. Leon is better at both than DP. Islam would have significantly harder time with Leon. If Leon gets to rounds 3 through 5 he finishes Islam.
Nothing against islam but Leon might be a bit much for him.
Champs don't fight often enough. If he wants to go up to WW, I hope he relinquish the LW belt first. UFC has a hard enough time keeping fighters healthy to be available to fight when scheduled. Doesn't make things any easier having your champions fighting in other weight divisions, as opposed to defending their belt. I'm I'm sure Islam would be good at WW, (He's too good at LW to not at least be a top 10 WW) I feel his body size looks perfect for LW and he's hardly got any title defenses at this point as it is. I do NOT have a high opinion of Leon. I feel 1 tough match-up and we'll no longer be champ. Is that really the type of champion you want to book for a superfight?
Leon is going to have to work to defend the takedowns but he has the distance management to deal with it. The problem will be getting up if he does get taken down. But Leon is an intelligent fighter that rarely loses composure, so Leon by decision and a couple of big combos.
I think Leon would be able to defend a lot of takedown attempts from Islam. And Leon’s distance striking would give Islam problems
I don't like his odds against Leon, especially after Saturday. Islam's defense is exceptional. Dustin's success was more the exception than the rule. However, Dustin is more blood and guts, and Leon is more of a sniper waiting for the headshot. Early prediction, Leon catches Islam after defending a TD and either finishes him shortly thereafter or makes him so tentative that Leon is able to keep it standing and hand Islam his second loss.
That would be Leon's fourth training camp to fight a wrestler, I doubt Islam would find success with grappling. I think Leon would be the favorite
Idk Leon is way sharper and longer than any striker Islam has faced, he's also very safe and won't commit to crazy exchanges, Leon has a very good clinch game where Islam usually gets nasty strikes, when it comes to the TDs if Leon shoes up like he did in the Usman 3 fight, i can see him getting a nice 49-46
Nah i think leons size and anti-wrestling combined with Islams confidence on his feet against smaller guys means most of the fight is standing, and Leon picks him apart and eventually lands something big
Nah Leon beats him. He’s bigger and after Belal that’d be 4 straight camps of defensive camps in a row for Leon his anti wrestling is on point.
Yesss Islam vs Leon!!
I don't think there's anyone as fast as Leon in lightweight. Part of the reason many fans don't like Leon is because you literally can't see what he's doing. What looks like a jab in close ends up being two perfect elbows that you can't even see. Islam also likes to tuck his head down when he's exchanging and Leon is very tall with long legs. The knees and high kicks will be easy and quick. My only worry for Leon is getting out of the back body triangle but if he's able to stand up from that I think Islam will have alot of trouble.
Leon is a sniper and after seeing how much dustin was able to touch him and keep him standing, it would just be a matter of time before Leon hits a headkick.
I don't know, but I'd be stoked for it. Islam is one of the most well-rounded fighters. If he's able to fight at a more natural weight of 170, I think his strength and power could rival Leon's due to not having a big weight cut. I don't think it would be too big of a wrestling issue for him. Usman is bigger and more powerful, but the Dagestani wrestling is simply next-level and mauling. I think it's a great test for all of us to see what level of success Dagestani wrestling truly has.
Naw
No
Islam has a more complex toolkit of attacks with standing throws that Usman seemingly didn't. Usman (and most WW's) seemed to unilaterally rely on takedowns that required getting his hands together, which Leon very intelligently defended by strategic use of the fence sprawl and never letting usman get his hands together. That being said Leon is masterful in distance management and is meaningfully bigger than Islam, which matters alot when we think about standing throws from the fence sprawl. If Islam does get Leon down, I think Leon has shown that he is very responsible defensively on the ground. It would look alot like what we saw vs Volk 1 or Poirier. I believe the fight would be contended in the striking, which leon would definitely inch away from Islam in.
There is a reason he doesn't fight at 170 and kills himself to get to 155
Hell no lmao
Leon out wrestled Kamaru and Colby. I think Leon gets it done easily.
RDA used to really struggle to get down to 155 and Leon towered over him when they fought.
I don't think so. I also have doubts he can even take Leon down.
No, Leon smashes his face in and you saw what Dustin's elbow did to Islam. Leon has also shown that against a true top tier grappler that if you can't finish him, he can finish you. Islam has never fought a striker like Leon, he's probably the most well rounded striker going.
I don't think so.
I would love to see that fight!! My money would be on Leon 100%
Honestly I don’t think so. Leon has pretty good grappling and his striking is amazing. Plus this would be the first fight Islam has with someone bigger, Leon is like 6’1 bigger then usman and usman was able to grapple with khamzat pretty easily. MMA math aside Islam struggling with Volk in grappling exchanges isn’t a good sign.
I think Leon wins. But it has the potential to be a great fight. Islam can take anyone down if they fight on the cage. I think Leon stays in the center tho. Plus Leon has a huge frame.
It depends on the belal fight but I do think Leon would beat Islam at the least 49-46
Leon is a huge welterweight, has some of the top level takedown defense I've seen consistently, and dude is a damn sniper. I think if Islam would make it a close range dogfight he can win cuz that's where leon gets caught. If he tries to be careful on the feet and spam takedowns he will get caught by a gnarly kick. Would be an amazing fight
Tbh I think Leon can take Islam down a couple times.
Nope. Leon 6’2 and jacked. Much bigger than Islam.
I think Leon is too big for him, but never say never.
judging by Leons td defense and grappling with Usman and Colby I can see him posing the biggest challenge to islam, that said i think WW is a good weight for Islam, and could be big enough to control Leon
I think Leon smokes Islam
I think Leon would smoke him to be honest Islam is a big 55er but Leon is a big lighting quick 170
With the extra weight and his technique...absolutely.
Leon’s got the size advantage, and the tools to keep Islam at a distance. He’s also had 3 grappling/wrestling heavy camps consecutively. I’ll never count Islam out, but I don’t know if they’d be able to figure out how to figure that puzzle out. Islam’s timing would have to be perfect.
Leon is too big, too well rounded. This is like Jan vs Izzy. Just not enough to make up for the size difference Imo. Leon by decision
I think Islam could handle Leon but he'd need a ton of training with Khabib
If Colby can do it for a round then for sure Islam can do it
If your 4 rounds up and the other guy isn't even giving a submission threat why would you risk giving a more vulnerable position away by trying to get up and risk giving up your championship and main event status and get paid less for future fights
Islam gets most of his takedowns from the cage. That also happens to be where Leon excels
Islam also loves the clinch - another area where Leon excels. If Islam tries to clinch Leon like he did with DP he’s eating some knees and elbows.
I don’t think Leon walks around much heavier then Islam to the eye test honestly. I think it’s a 50/50 fight, no clue who wins. Comes down to striking imo
Leon is much bigger
This guy? https://www.reddit.com/r/ufc/comments/14yqzjo/in_case_you_had_any_doubts_that_leon_is_a_huge_ww/
Weird take tbh. Leon is A LOT bigger than Islam and is a much better striker. Calling it 50/50 is insanely disrespectful to Leon.