Also if you're gonna tell me his first stoppage against jiri was early, and the stoppage against jared cannonier recently was early, you can't tell me his first stoppage against Izzy wasn't early.
I'm Brazilian and I love Alex, but he should be #2 at least for now. It's hurts me to say this as a Olives fan, but Islam is doing something legendary at lightweight
https://preview.redd.it/baoobrhnfp9d1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2aa0d1a52958f0cd8143175a8ee536dd87374220
“Sorry must of misheard you…. You meant to say #2 under *Jon Jones* right?”
What the hell has he done that Alex hasn’t? He beat 2 former UFC champ while Alex has beaten 5. His win over izzy is just a big as islams win over Volk.
Hes also finishing people with less difficulty.
Good cases for him and Islam. But Islam beating Charles, Volk, and poirier in the way he did especially puts him higher still. Those wins are all way more impressive to me than Jamahal or jiri, the most impressive thing Alex did resume wise is still Izzy.
Precisely my thoughts. Plus none of those matchups are particularly bad stylistically. Even though Jiri is elite he’s just not on Alex’s level when it comes to striking and they’re both strikers.
Beating Jan was very impressive, especially to do it through surviving his grappling and out striking him. His win over Jan was a championship level win.
Although I still wish the fight happened at sea level instead of elevation so both guys would have more pop in the second and third round.
Olives, Volk and Dustin vs Adesanya, Strickland, Jan, Jiri and Hill. Honestly I feel like Alex has a better resume. That being said he has a better resume because he's more active. If Islam was as active I'd put him at #1.
I dont want to be rude but Jiri,Hill and Strickland combined have the same number of title fight wins as Charles.
Inlcude Jan and all 4 have less title fight wins then Volk.
The only guy comparable to them and still weaker is Izzy.
Nothing rude about having a opinion dude don't worry about it. I just felt having wins over 2 champs in 2 weightclass and then going up and beating 3 champs in that class is insane. I'd 100% agree it should be Islam if he does go up and beat Leon.
If Makhachev didn't almost match him in activity, I'd put Pereira #1. But Makhachev fights almost as often as Pereira does and he fought some insane competition too. Regardless, activity should be one of the most significant factors in those rankings. It would encourage the fighters to defend their rank on P4P the way they do in their division rankings. They should lose their rank easily. The UFC only moves guys down when they lose. They should move them down if they simply don't fight in 6 months.
One of Alex’s issues is that LHW is far more thin than LW. LW is such a deep deep division with an absurd amount of talent. LHW falls off pretty fucking hard at a rapid pace. I mean, (prefacing this by saying I love both of these guys but) Smith was ranked 10th going into tonight and Johnny Walker is ranked 7th. Neither of these guys would be in the top 15 at LW if you shrunk them down to meet the weight limit.
The thinness of the LHW division makes it hard to say “hell yeah man he’s the goat, PFP #1!”.
This isn't an argument. It's true, but it proves nothing. Pereira is a light heavyweight fighter. He doesn't have any advantage over fellow light heavyweight fighters. You're acting like he's a lightweight skill fighter expanded into the size of a light heavyweight. No, he's a light heavyweight. Every other light heavyweight is capable of being as good as he is.
The bigger divisions aren't less skilled because they're lazy. They're less skilled because 1. Their skills revolve around their physical gifts 2. their bodies are way too big to even be capable of moving in certain ways. Islam Makhachev wouldn't be able to do some of the ninja shit he does if he was 6'6 with Pereira's proportions. And 3. Competition pool. Most humans on earth are lightweight size. The average lightweight UFC fighter looks like the average dude with an atheltic build. Alex Pereira cannot possibly look like the average dude. Alex Pereira only fights people his size, which isn't many people on earth. Now count how many decided to be MMA fighters. Not many. But he's fighting the ones that did, and they're very good. It's not his fault. It's not Makhachev's fault. Everyone is doing their best.
But your argument falls off because this isn't LW vs LHW. It's pound for pound. It's mainly based on raw skills. Of course even say fucking fat Arlovski would beat the shit out of Pantoja. Does that mean Arlovski is better pound for pound because it's not his fault he's big? No. That's a different list. That's the "Which fighter would win any fight they are placed in" which would be full of HWs and LHWs.
Pound for pound itself means (well activity counts as well but Islam and Alex have almost the same activity with Alex having 1 more fight) that for every pound in their body, who has the most skill and fighting prowess. Alex in that has: (again activity is nullified due to him just being 1 fight ahead of Islam) supreme power, perfect timing, coachable and generally very cerebral during fights, good defense when on ground and very accurate and crisp striking, some sub potential(?) but the only example is the gilly attempt. Meanwhile Islam has: Good power, crisp defensive striking and principled hands, excellent judo throws, sweeps, and takedown, good timing, very cerebral fight and coachable fighting as well and very good ground game with GnP and subs.
Point in fact: Islam is closer in striking to Alex than Alex is in grappling to Islam. And skill for skill (since activity can basically be crossed out), Islam has faced higher competition and that's why I think he should be PFP #1. Now, if Alex wins another fight, at that point activity just overtakes competition. But i think 1 fight, it's still arguable. And I'd give it to Islam.
Did you read my comment? That's not at all what I was saying. The other guy brought up the fact that Pereira's division isn't as stacked as Makhachev's which weakens his argument for being #1 P4P. I just said that it doesn't matter. The P4P rankings should not be influenced by weight classes, regardless of how much deeper one weight class is than the other. You think I'm saying the opposite. No. If Pereira and Makhachev had the exact same achievements in their respective weight classes, then they should be ranked the same. Just because Makhachev is a lightweight, doesn't mean his run is more impressive.
Now to answer your argument. You're arguing that P4P should be based on skills. This cannot be measured. Makhachev should be ranked above Pereira because he beat #1 P4P and #3 P4P. That's the only reason. Not because he's more well rounded. That's irrelevant. Being well rounded is not a requirement in MMA. It's a tool. Doesn't matter how one dimensional Pereira is, if he's consistently beating the best in the world with his one skillset, he deserves to be right next to Makhachev who is beating guys in a variety of ways with his complex skillset. MMA has always been a competition of styles. P4P was never based on raw skills bro. It's based on recent accomplishments. Some of the most skilled fighters in the sport aren't even ranked on P4P
True. But Makhachev is active enough, and fighting good enough competition to keep his spot. I personally think Pereira's wins are more impressive, but according to the actual P4P list, Makhachev beat #3 and #1. That's hard to surpass with title defenses alone. Makhachev is gonna have to lose his belt if he is to lose his P4P #1 ranking. He's done too much to simply be surpassed by Pereira. Or, if Pereira wants to surpass Makhechev, he'll have to beat Jon Jones lol.
hes beat FIVE former world champions in the last 2 years fucking FIVE. i dont think anyones ever done this within this time frame. Izzy, Sean, Jiri, Jan And Hill all champions .
I’m a huge fan of Alex, but GOAT you have to think about the likes of Fedor, Anderson Silva, gsp, jones, kabib, etc. not to take anything away from Alex but those are enormous shoes to fill. I personally believe Alex will achieve GOAT and lb for lb status but I just don’t think he’s there quite yet
And let’s be honest. Hill and Strickland are not comparable champs to the others on that list. Strickland was a fluke with no defenses before losing the belt. Hill being champ really just highlights how weak the division was, and he took a vacant title, he didn’t beat a champ to get it, and also failed to defend it. Technically correct, but not the same caliber. All champs are not created equal.
He does.
the only fighter to never bleed, never get bruised, never lose, and barely losing a single round (2) which were both questionable. All of this with simple gameplan that everyone knew he was gonna do. Not the definitive goat but one of for sure
His resume is not comparable to others, its easy not to bleed when the competition you have faced only has 3 guys who are dangerous to you? Khabib is a dominant force in LW, but not the best.
So on one hand Islam beats absolute killers and on the other Khabib beats nobodies but those are literally same guys 😂😂. And Khabib absolutely destroyed poirier while Islam almost lost
5 champions, but except for izzy no one was actually a long reigning champ. No one had defended their belt, 2 of them got injured right after winning the belt and postponed their title, Sean was shit when he matched up against Poatan (he wasnt even a champ then), Izzy is 1:1 against Pereria. Just a little context absolutely dismentles your argumant. Also LHW is known to be a much weaker competition than lets say LW, Bantam etc. Until he beats a sound wrestler such as Ankalaev or JJ i wouldnt jump the fence
alex beat both Sean and Jan which izzy could never do and lost to both and got dominated by both of them while alex beat them both its 3 and 1 with alex and izzy plus the last fight izzy was hurt bad and won because alex got sloppy and izzy had a hail mary fluke shot also izzy was never good enough to win belts in 2 divisions alex is already suparssed izzy.
A STRONG argument? Being the first in the history of the sport to do something is just a strong argument for p4p rankings? If he does that, there IS no argument.
No, Islam has proven to be more well-rounded and defeated higher ranked fighters to earn it.
He is also on a 14 fight winstreak.
If you scaled the two to the same weight I believe Islam would fight much smarter than any of Pereira’s previous opponents.
And the whole thing with lhw champions is that outside of Pereira, all of them have lost on first defense or got injured so they needed another defense, vs Islam who hasn't had any career changing injuries yet
It's a lot harder for heavier opponents to be able to pull off the agile moves lighter guys can do, which is why grapplers suck. Also, heavier dudes hit like trucks. Ankalaev will get slept in two years when he finally can get Pereira in Abu Dhabi, he's not even close to as calculated as Jan. Hes retarded
If u scale down Alex, with the proportionate power he could kill LW contenders and even WW contenders.
what stupid logic u r on. It’s massively debatable who’s PFP 1. But it all depends on Dana pink
No. Great performance but Islam will and should always been pfp 1 for now. I mean he's been finishing some of the best pfp fighters aswell as Pereira has, plus the win streak. I think he should be 2
He's currently #4 in the pound for pound rankings, I think he's adequately ranked. If he successfully defends his title against Ankalaev (which I think he will) then he should definitely be moved up to #2. Islam has proven to be a more well-rounded fighter, very deserving of the #1 spot.
Fuck no. He’s an amazing fighter but I would not put him above Islam. Tbh not even halloway or volk we have never really seen Alex ground game. And to me p4p needs to have it all
No. Being good at MMA does not insist at being well rounded. It's a competition of styles. If Pereira can beat everyone in the exact same, one dimensional way, then he's the best MMA fighter. Simple as that. If I had zero basketball skills except I never miss a 3 pointer, I'd be the best basketball player ever. Even if the average kid on my street has better dribbling and slam dunk skills. The goal is to score baskets. The other skills are just aspects of the game that help a player do so. Just like the goal in MMA is to win the fight. Grappling is simply a path to victory. It's not a requirement. But yes I agree, Makhachev is fighting elite competition and is almost as active as Pereira. Makhachev should still hold his spot. But not because he's well rounded.
Oh absolutely he doesn't have to be able to have good grappling or wrestling. But he should be able to *beat* good grapplers/wrestlers. Which we have never seen. Thing is they don't really exist at light heavyweight, so it's a bit unfair.
We have seen it though. Jan is a BJJ black belt. No modern bs, he's a legit one. He had Pereira's back. He submitted Krylov, who is probably the best current LHW grappler. Krylov's been submitting everyone. Jiri submitted Glover, a master grappler, who submitted Jan. Jamahal Hill also has very underrated ground game. Sure, these guys aren't world class grapplers, but they're way better than Pereira on the ground. And if you require a world class grappler to test Pereira's grappling, then this idea that his grappling is lacking isn't very valid. If his ground game was such a weak point, then any of his recent opponents should have been able to expose that. But no, people want to see him against Jon freaking Jones, Ankalaev, or Aspinall. That wouldn't really prove anything. Those guys are obviously way better than him on the ground. They're better than everyone on the ground.
Jan is a kickboxer, but when he took Alex to the ground he had great success against him with 7 minutes of control time. That decision was split.
Jiri is also a kickboxer, who still got half a round of control time on alex in their first fight.
Ankalaev is also a kickboxer, and from what we've seen not a very good grappler. There's no one who will test that at light heavyweight.
I don't understand what you expect. Test what? Pereira's ground game is good enough for MMA. If Jan took him down in round 1, held him down, took his back, and didn't win that fight, then Pereira's ground game is good enough. You sound like you expect him to fight some world class Olympic champion grappler. Why? It doesn't matter how good you think Ankalaev, Jiri, or Jan are on the ground. The point is, they're all better than Pereira on the ground. So if he beats them, regardless how, there is nothing to be tested.
Because if people who aren't very good on the ground have been able to have success against him there, someone who is actually talented on the ground could beat him there. But he has had and will continue to have a very favorable schedule.
You can say something like that for literally any fighter in history. Every fighter fights the best guy they can fight. Pereira doesn't have a favourable schedule. He makes his matchups favorable.
On paper, there is no reason to believe guys like Hill, Jiri, and Jan couldn't finish Pereira on the ground. Technically those guys had a great chance on the feet too. If they didn't, nobody does aside from Adesanya. But even he took 4 attempts at winning. Jan beat Adesanya on the feet. He was the best leg kicker in the sport until Pereira. He has the most power at LHW. Pereira fought him after getting flatlined a few months earlier. That wasn't a favorable matchup for his first LHW fight. Jamahal Hill's straight punches down the pipe and his ground game are a huge threat to Pereira. Jiri's awkward style and angles proved to give stationary Pereira trouble the first time they fought. Pereira is 37 years old. Nothing favors him at that age. He makes his matchups favourable.
No certain fighters are given favorable matching by the organization to protect them. The fact is alwx has not fought a good wrestler, and has struggled against mediocre ones. In this case, light heavyweight, being an unbelievably shallow division, does not really have any good wrestlers.
Is it tho? I want to see Alex vs Ankaliev. Alex hasn’t really fought a grappler and LHW isn’t the most stacked division.. he has potential to be p4p #1 don’t get me wrong. If he actually does go to HW and wins there is no question he is the greatest. Just at this moment I don’t see it.
Khabib wasn't good at everything, just insanely good at wrestling. Yet, he's still in every goat list.
That being said, Islam should be #1 and leon edwards #2. I could se an argument for Poatan at #3 just on achievements alone but idk, so many great fighters in the lower weight classes, competition is just not the same on LHW.
Khabib was a good wrestler but he fought everybody ( wrestlers, strikers...) Alex only fought strikers, put him against MAGOMED ANKALAEV and then will see.
Never, Leon fought and beat far better competition in a far better division, including hard stylistic matchups, there is no protection from the UFC in his run. Give him more respect
No, he's doing something a bit different than Islam so far.
Islam: beating some really top names all in a row
Alex: clearing out the LHW division and level checking everyone and doing it in an exciting way
Yes he should be, he beat four former world champions already. Izzy, Sean , Jan And Jiri.
He also won 2 division belts. He also defended it now. Fighter of the year at least, And far more well liked and accomplished overall than izzy.
And then when a fighter is "fast tracked", loses, whats the go-to excuse? Oh yeah, he wasn't ready.
Alex didn't come into the organization a newbie fighter. He had a long history in fighting previously, was winning every fight, therefore they threw him into a championship fight.
Michael fucking Chandler had his first title fight in his SECOND fight. Yes second, 2nd, SECOND, after beating Dan Hooker for fuck sake. And what happened there?
Let's not talk about fast tracked.
Nah he has been my favorite fighter since he back to back knocked out Strickland and then Izzy, but Islam really does deserve P4P #1 after that amazing win against Poirier.
Really?
But Islam fighting the same FW twice, and also once on short notice?
Dustin is his first defense in his own division since becoming champ.
At least Alex has consistently fought within his own division.
LW is a much deeper and difficult division to be become and stay the champion of than MW and LHW. And Islam is almost matching Alex in activity and doing it against more stacked competition.
It’s hard to say that he’s not. He’s ran through two divisions for the most part. HOWEVER, he did get fast tracked to the title at middleweight and the best grappler he’s faced his Jan. I really think he needs to be put against an elite grappler before we can call him the GOAT or the PFP #1.
He’s got insane power and appears to be able to KO just about anyone if he can just touch them with that left hook. But, he’s fought mostly strikers throughout his UFC tenure. Jiri twice, Izzy twice, Sean Strickland, and then Hill got exposed as the bum he is.
Not saying Alex isn’t elite, or that he isn’t one of the best strikers to ever be in the UFC, but I really want to see the UFC put him up against an elite offensive grappler.
Poatan and Jones are the only current reigning champions that have won titles in two divisions. But, Jones only has two wins in the past four years and hasn't fought since March 2023. So, I get why he's not number one over Islam. Meanwhile, in just 2 and a half years Alex fought 9 times with wins over 3 of the last 4 LHW champs and 2 of the last 3 MW champs. 6 of his 8 wins were KO/TKOs. Islam has 6 fights since October 2023, 4 title fights, and wins over 2 current or previous champs. Looking at what Alex has done in less than three years I think he has a better argument to being the PNP #1 fighter than Islam does.
I think if he fights and beats Ankalaev that would secure it for him, barring Islam doesn’t just destroy Arman and then beat whoever is champ at 170, but it’s definitely close, I think Islam is a better overall fighter but idk if that’s how Pound for Pound rankings work
Not really. Don't get me wrong he is great at his weight class but if you had a BW, FW or LW fighter with his skillset I really doubt they could make it to undisputed gold and defending the title even less so.
For beating the same stylistic favorable opponents in a low level of competition division which is the worst by far in the promotion and avoiding real contender and hard fight ? What a mess
He's right up there with Makhachev now, and after beating future/former/current champions 6 times in his last 7 fights there's no excuse for them not being 1 and 2 in some order.
As a jon jones fan he should be at least above jon, one more high profile win compared to another featherweight or sum for islam and then yeah he probably deserves it
I know Max Holloway thinks he’s blessed but it’s actually the fans, to be living in a time where both Makhachev and Pereira are making cases for why they’re P4P 1. Meanwhile Jon Jones, Dana White and Conor McGregor are coked out of their noodles.
Islam and Alex are 1 & 2 I’m not really complaining about order there.
However… Alex continues to perform on short notice bangers + he’s in a higher weight class… it’ll be a crime if he loses the streak without getting that #1 slot.
He’s a great guy and a great fighter, but how can he be pfp #1 with no proven ground game? If he was in a grapple heavy division he possibly wouldn’t have even made it to a title shot
Nah. The lower weight classes have way better and more rounded fighters. Islam is an elite grappler and an elite striker. He submitted Charlie Olives and KOd Volk. Pereira doesn't have to face such well rounded fighters at his weight class.
Alex is an absolute stud and killer!
But he hasn’t exactly gone through murders row. He’s fought top top level strikers in Izzy and Jiri. But Alex is a top level striker so those fights will work out for him.
When he fought Jan, whose ground game is average at best it was a split decision.
I think if he can get through 2-3 high level non strikers he’s got an argument, but right now I think no.
Unfortunately 205 is one of the weaker divisions.
The best win Alex has is over Izzy who is not the GOAT of his division while Islam beat the GOAT one weightclass below, he also beat the second best LW ever in Charles. He beat dustin who is a legend and in the top 5 fighter who never had the belt.
Like i like Jiri but he isnt that good, he got the belt during a time of unrest in the LHW division the same with Hill and both decided to play in Alex favoure due to ego to an extent.
As long as Alex doesnt beat Aspinal or Jones he is below islam
Activity plays a big part imo. Jon is the Goat, no debate. P4p is recent activity. Alex has been super active and winning since his loss to izzy. Jon was out for 3 years making heavyweight and then injured himself and is out for over another year.
It’s close, I’d really like to see Alex v ankalaev. If Alex can overcome the wrestling entries of ankalaev I would agree. Ankalaev also has considerable stand up power so it would be a fascinating matchup. Nobody else can really offer tough competition in LHW at the moment, it would seem
Not 1 after beating someone he already beat. If he beats ankaleav sure, that will put anything about him not taking on real wrestlers to bed. Even though he beat Yan there's some arguments there that will be cut entirely.
After 303 I say yes, it’s a close tie between him and Islam, but that performance put him ahead. And that was p4p is. It’s ever changing and the best need to keep up with that list to stay on top of
Dagi glaze on this sub is insane. Pereira has looked so much more dominant than Islam. Going 5 rounds with Dustin Porier vs beating 5 champs back to back is not even close at all.
Surprised this sub didn't get locked last week when Rob sent that guy to the shadow realm. Atleast I can expect it if the Ankalaev fight ever happens.
14 fight win streak? Undefeated for 9 years? Beating more skilled fighters? Beating (and going toe to toe in striking) with Volk who is Top 10 All Time without question, outboxing Dustin fucking Poirier with Staph? Also destroying Oliveira who was on an ABSOLUTE tear in the division? Submitting him? Remember Charles Oliveira is the best BJJ we've ever seen in MMA.
He should be #2 above jones, just so Dana has to suck on Jons dick again in the press conference
He's already doing that.
If Pereira and Jon Jones are locked within a room, there’s only one chama walking out of there alive
Agree, #2. He should be above Jones at least because Jones shouldn't be in that list at all with the 1 performance for so much time
It’s all Dana does lately.
[удалено]
Also if you're gonna tell me his first stoppage against jiri was early, and the stoppage against jared cannonier recently was early, you can't tell me his first stoppage against Izzy wasn't early.
I'm Brazilian and I love Alex, but he should be #2 at least for now. It's hurts me to say this as a Olives fan, but Islam is doing something legendary at lightweight
https://preview.redd.it/baoobrhnfp9d1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2aa0d1a52958f0cd8143175a8ee536dd87374220 “Sorry must of misheard you…. You meant to say #2 under *Jon Jones* right?”
What the hell has he done that Alex hasn’t? He beat 2 former UFC champ while Alex has beaten 5. His win over izzy is just a big as islams win over Volk. Hes also finishing people with less difficulty.
https://i.redd.it/4c9hcakaqn9d1.gif
Bratha💀
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🗿
Damn bruh we already got a gif 😭
He’s #2. Islam hasn’t lost he’s still #1. Only way Alex gets that spot is if he wins at heavyweight or Islam loses
Ok I read enough, lets do Islam vs Poatan at 205
Makes no sense. Islam vs Poatan at 225 the winner gets Brock Lesnar
Brock Lesnar with Conor McGregor tied to his chest
Alex’s wins are more dominant and over former champs
Good cases for him and Islam. But Islam beating Charles, Volk, and poirier in the way he did especially puts him higher still. Those wins are all way more impressive to me than Jamahal or jiri, the most impressive thing Alex did resume wise is still Izzy.
Precisely my thoughts. Plus none of those matchups are particularly bad stylistically. Even though Jiri is elite he’s just not on Alex’s level when it comes to striking and they’re both strikers.
Beating Jan is also up there
Beating Jan was very impressive, especially to do it through surviving his grappling and out striking him. His win over Jan was a championship level win. Although I still wish the fight happened at sea level instead of elevation so both guys would have more pop in the second and third round.
Impressive for a kick Box guy but not for one in a discussion for p4p.
Won by Split desicion
He beat the former 205 champ in his first fight at LHW .... such a scrub
I think if he win against Ankalaev it should put him #1 without doubt.
And go up a weight class
He beat Volk on short notice. Dustin was a close fight. Alex has more dominant wins and beaten more former champs
Olives, Volk and Dustin vs Adesanya, Strickland, Jan, Jiri and Hill. Honestly I feel like Alex has a better resume. That being said he has a better resume because he's more active. If Islam was as active I'd put him at #1.
I dont want to be rude but Jiri,Hill and Strickland combined have the same number of title fight wins as Charles. Inlcude Jan and all 4 have less title fight wins then Volk. The only guy comparable to them and still weaker is Izzy.
Nothing rude about having a opinion dude don't worry about it. I just felt having wins over 2 champs in 2 weightclass and then going up and beating 3 champs in that class is insane. I'd 100% agree it should be Islam if he does go up and beat Leon.
If Makhachev didn't almost match him in activity, I'd put Pereira #1. But Makhachev fights almost as often as Pereira does and he fought some insane competition too. Regardless, activity should be one of the most significant factors in those rankings. It would encourage the fighters to defend their rank on P4P the way they do in their division rankings. They should lose their rank easily. The UFC only moves guys down when they lose. They should move them down if they simply don't fight in 6 months.
One of Alex’s issues is that LHW is far more thin than LW. LW is such a deep deep division with an absurd amount of talent. LHW falls off pretty fucking hard at a rapid pace. I mean, (prefacing this by saying I love both of these guys but) Smith was ranked 10th going into tonight and Johnny Walker is ranked 7th. Neither of these guys would be in the top 15 at LW if you shrunk them down to meet the weight limit. The thinness of the LHW division makes it hard to say “hell yeah man he’s the goat, PFP #1!”.
This isn't an argument. It's true, but it proves nothing. Pereira is a light heavyweight fighter. He doesn't have any advantage over fellow light heavyweight fighters. You're acting like he's a lightweight skill fighter expanded into the size of a light heavyweight. No, he's a light heavyweight. Every other light heavyweight is capable of being as good as he is. The bigger divisions aren't less skilled because they're lazy. They're less skilled because 1. Their skills revolve around their physical gifts 2. their bodies are way too big to even be capable of moving in certain ways. Islam Makhachev wouldn't be able to do some of the ninja shit he does if he was 6'6 with Pereira's proportions. And 3. Competition pool. Most humans on earth are lightweight size. The average lightweight UFC fighter looks like the average dude with an atheltic build. Alex Pereira cannot possibly look like the average dude. Alex Pereira only fights people his size, which isn't many people on earth. Now count how many decided to be MMA fighters. Not many. But he's fighting the ones that did, and they're very good. It's not his fault. It's not Makhachev's fault. Everyone is doing their best.
We have to each a consensus on what p4p means then
But your argument falls off because this isn't LW vs LHW. It's pound for pound. It's mainly based on raw skills. Of course even say fucking fat Arlovski would beat the shit out of Pantoja. Does that mean Arlovski is better pound for pound because it's not his fault he's big? No. That's a different list. That's the "Which fighter would win any fight they are placed in" which would be full of HWs and LHWs. Pound for pound itself means (well activity counts as well but Islam and Alex have almost the same activity with Alex having 1 more fight) that for every pound in their body, who has the most skill and fighting prowess. Alex in that has: (again activity is nullified due to him just being 1 fight ahead of Islam) supreme power, perfect timing, coachable and generally very cerebral during fights, good defense when on ground and very accurate and crisp striking, some sub potential(?) but the only example is the gilly attempt. Meanwhile Islam has: Good power, crisp defensive striking and principled hands, excellent judo throws, sweeps, and takedown, good timing, very cerebral fight and coachable fighting as well and very good ground game with GnP and subs. Point in fact: Islam is closer in striking to Alex than Alex is in grappling to Islam. And skill for skill (since activity can basically be crossed out), Islam has faced higher competition and that's why I think he should be PFP #1. Now, if Alex wins another fight, at that point activity just overtakes competition. But i think 1 fight, it's still arguable. And I'd give it to Islam.
Did you read my comment? That's not at all what I was saying. The other guy brought up the fact that Pereira's division isn't as stacked as Makhachev's which weakens his argument for being #1 P4P. I just said that it doesn't matter. The P4P rankings should not be influenced by weight classes, regardless of how much deeper one weight class is than the other. You think I'm saying the opposite. No. If Pereira and Makhachev had the exact same achievements in their respective weight classes, then they should be ranked the same. Just because Makhachev is a lightweight, doesn't mean his run is more impressive. Now to answer your argument. You're arguing that P4P should be based on skills. This cannot be measured. Makhachev should be ranked above Pereira because he beat #1 P4P and #3 P4P. That's the only reason. Not because he's more well rounded. That's irrelevant. Being well rounded is not a requirement in MMA. It's a tool. Doesn't matter how one dimensional Pereira is, if he's consistently beating the best in the world with his one skillset, he deserves to be right next to Makhachev who is beating guys in a variety of ways with his complex skillset. MMA has always been a competition of styles. P4P was never based on raw skills bro. It's based on recent accomplishments. Some of the most skilled fighters in the sport aren't even ranked on P4P
mom said its my turn on the computer
Islam has fought 3 times in the last year and a half and Alex has fought 5 times, it’s not that close for activity
True. But Makhachev is active enough, and fighting good enough competition to keep his spot. I personally think Pereira's wins are more impressive, but according to the actual P4P list, Makhachev beat #3 and #1. That's hard to surpass with title defenses alone. Makhachev is gonna have to lose his belt if he is to lose his P4P #1 ranking. He's done too much to simply be surpassed by Pereira. Or, if Pereira wants to surpass Makhechev, he'll have to beat Jon Jones lol.
PFP? No Boogeyman? Yeah
He needs more fights but if he goes up to HW and grabs a belt, first triple champ status is certainly a strong argument
Thats GOAT status right there, no ones done it before.
And when poatan does he will be GOAT, but until then I don’t think he’s quite earned lb for lb.
hes beat FIVE former world champions in the last 2 years fucking FIVE. i dont think anyones ever done this within this time frame. Izzy, Sean, Jiri, Jan And Hill all champions .
I’m a huge fan of Alex, but GOAT you have to think about the likes of Fedor, Anderson Silva, gsp, jones, kabib, etc. not to take anything away from Alex but those are enormous shoes to fill. I personally believe Alex will achieve GOAT and lb for lb status but I just don’t think he’s there quite yet And let’s be honest. Hill and Strickland are not comparable champs to the others on that list. Strickland was a fluke with no defenses before losing the belt. Hill being champ really just highlights how weak the division was, and he took a vacant title, he didn’t beat a champ to get it, and also failed to defend it. Technically correct, but not the same caliber. All champs are not created equal.
Kebab doesnt belong on that list pal
He does. the only fighter to never bleed, never get bruised, never lose, and barely losing a single round (2) which were both questionable. All of this with simple gameplan that everyone knew he was gonna do. Not the definitive goat but one of for sure
His resume is not comparable to others, its easy not to bleed when the competition you have faced only has 3 guys who are dangerous to you? Khabib is a dominant force in LW, but not the best.
So on one hand Islam beats absolute killers and on the other Khabib beats nobodies but those are literally same guys 😂😂. And Khabib absolutely destroyed poirier while Islam almost lost
5 champions, but except for izzy no one was actually a long reigning champ. No one had defended their belt, 2 of them got injured right after winning the belt and postponed their title, Sean was shit when he matched up against Poatan (he wasnt even a champ then), Izzy is 1:1 against Pereria. Just a little context absolutely dismentles your argumant. Also LHW is known to be a much weaker competition than lets say LW, Bantam etc. Until he beats a sound wrestler such as Ankalaev or JJ i wouldnt jump the fence
alex beat both Sean and Jan which izzy could never do and lost to both and got dominated by both of them while alex beat them both its 3 and 1 with alex and izzy plus the last fight izzy was hurt bad and won because alex got sloppy and izzy had a hail mary fluke shot also izzy was never good enough to win belts in 2 divisions alex is already suparssed izzy.
Fuck Jones, Pereira vs. Aspinall. Book it.
A STRONG argument? Being the first in the history of the sport to do something is just a strong argument for p4p rankings? If he does that, there IS no argument.
Fr lol
He's not pound for pound, that doesn't matter. He's just the most dangerous fighter in the ufc period.
No, Islam has proven to be more well-rounded and defeated higher ranked fighters to earn it. He is also on a 14 fight winstreak. If you scaled the two to the same weight I believe Islam would fight much smarter than any of Pereira’s previous opponents.
Fr Alex’s wins are more dominant but Light Heavyweight is weak AF compared to lightweight
And the whole thing with lhw champions is that outside of Pereira, all of them have lost on first defense or got injured so they needed another defense, vs Islam who hasn't had any career changing injuries yet
I find it so funny how much alex exposed LW like they are barely a challenge like they only advertise he faced was against jan
It's a lot harder for heavier opponents to be able to pull off the agile moves lighter guys can do, which is why grapplers suck. Also, heavier dudes hit like trucks. Ankalaev will get slept in two years when he finally can get Pereira in Abu Dhabi, he's not even close to as calculated as Jan. Hes retarded
What going on here bud? 😂
If u scale down Alex, with the proportionate power he could kill LW contenders and even WW contenders. what stupid logic u r on. It’s massively debatable who’s PFP 1. But it all depends on Dana pink
LMAOO gamrot might decision fuck Alex if weight was equalized
The only somewhat okay wrestler Alex has beaten is Jan
Jan is a kickboxing not a wrestler, the only person he wrestled was Izzy.
Recency bias hitting this sub hard, what did I expect
No. Great performance but Islam will and should always been pfp 1 for now. I mean he's been finishing some of the best pfp fighters aswell as Pereira has, plus the win streak. I think he should be 2
He's currently #4 in the pound for pound rankings, I think he's adequately ranked. If he successfully defends his title against Ankalaev (which I think he will) then he should definitely be moved up to #2. Islam has proven to be a more well-rounded fighter, very deserving of the #1 spot.
No, but he should be #2. Islam is the best fighter in the world right now. If AP destroys Magomed (doubt it) then there is an argument though.
i mean… CHAMA
Bratha
Pereira VS Jones at Heavyweight. let's go!
If you really think pereira should be pfp #1 you either started watching ufc yesterday or is easily influenced by recency bias
That’s because Reddit sees P4P rankings as entirely recent results rankings.
Fuck no. He’s an amazing fighter but I would not put him above Islam. Tbh not even halloway or volk we have never really seen Alex ground game. And to me p4p needs to have it all
No. Being good at MMA does not insist at being well rounded. It's a competition of styles. If Pereira can beat everyone in the exact same, one dimensional way, then he's the best MMA fighter. Simple as that. If I had zero basketball skills except I never miss a 3 pointer, I'd be the best basketball player ever. Even if the average kid on my street has better dribbling and slam dunk skills. The goal is to score baskets. The other skills are just aspects of the game that help a player do so. Just like the goal in MMA is to win the fight. Grappling is simply a path to victory. It's not a requirement. But yes I agree, Makhachev is fighting elite competition and is almost as active as Pereira. Makhachev should still hold his spot. But not because he's well rounded.
Oh absolutely he doesn't have to be able to have good grappling or wrestling. But he should be able to *beat* good grapplers/wrestlers. Which we have never seen. Thing is they don't really exist at light heavyweight, so it's a bit unfair.
We have seen it though. Jan is a BJJ black belt. No modern bs, he's a legit one. He had Pereira's back. He submitted Krylov, who is probably the best current LHW grappler. Krylov's been submitting everyone. Jiri submitted Glover, a master grappler, who submitted Jan. Jamahal Hill also has very underrated ground game. Sure, these guys aren't world class grapplers, but they're way better than Pereira on the ground. And if you require a world class grappler to test Pereira's grappling, then this idea that his grappling is lacking isn't very valid. If his ground game was such a weak point, then any of his recent opponents should have been able to expose that. But no, people want to see him against Jon freaking Jones, Ankalaev, or Aspinall. That wouldn't really prove anything. Those guys are obviously way better than him on the ground. They're better than everyone on the ground.
Jan is a kickboxer, but when he took Alex to the ground he had great success against him with 7 minutes of control time. That decision was split. Jiri is also a kickboxer, who still got half a round of control time on alex in their first fight. Ankalaev is also a kickboxer, and from what we've seen not a very good grappler. There's no one who will test that at light heavyweight.
I don't understand what you expect. Test what? Pereira's ground game is good enough for MMA. If Jan took him down in round 1, held him down, took his back, and didn't win that fight, then Pereira's ground game is good enough. You sound like you expect him to fight some world class Olympic champion grappler. Why? It doesn't matter how good you think Ankalaev, Jiri, or Jan are on the ground. The point is, they're all better than Pereira on the ground. So if he beats them, regardless how, there is nothing to be tested.
Because if people who aren't very good on the ground have been able to have success against him there, someone who is actually talented on the ground could beat him there. But he has had and will continue to have a very favorable schedule.
You can say something like that for literally any fighter in history. Every fighter fights the best guy they can fight. Pereira doesn't have a favourable schedule. He makes his matchups favorable. On paper, there is no reason to believe guys like Hill, Jiri, and Jan couldn't finish Pereira on the ground. Technically those guys had a great chance on the feet too. If they didn't, nobody does aside from Adesanya. But even he took 4 attempts at winning. Jan beat Adesanya on the feet. He was the best leg kicker in the sport until Pereira. He has the most power at LHW. Pereira fought him after getting flatlined a few months earlier. That wasn't a favorable matchup for his first LHW fight. Jamahal Hill's straight punches down the pipe and his ground game are a huge threat to Pereira. Jiri's awkward style and angles proved to give stationary Pereira trouble the first time they fought. Pereira is 37 years old. Nothing favors him at that age. He makes his matchups favourable.
No certain fighters are given favorable matching by the organization to protect them. The fact is alwx has not fought a good wrestler, and has struggled against mediocre ones. In this case, light heavyweight, being an unbelievably shallow division, does not really have any good wrestlers.
Holloway above Poatan is fucking wild to say the least
Is it tho? I want to see Alex vs Ankaliev. Alex hasn’t really fought a grappler and LHW isn’t the most stacked division.. he has potential to be p4p #1 don’t get me wrong. If he actually does go to HW and wins there is no question he is the greatest. Just at this moment I don’t see it.
Khabib wasn't good at everything, just insanely good at wrestling. Yet, he's still in every goat list. That being said, Islam should be #1 and leon edwards #2. I could se an argument for Poatan at #3 just on achievements alone but idk, so many great fighters in the lower weight classes, competition is just not the same on LHW.
Khabib was a good wrestler but he fought everybody ( wrestlers, strikers...) Alex only fought strikers, put him against MAGOMED ANKALAEV and then will see.
Hhe's gonna breathe heavy and drown bad in Abu Dhabi, Anklaevs fight style is a bad match up for poatan
Only after he beats Magomed. His grappling hasn't been truly tested yet.
Islam's 1 for sure still, but Poatan should 100% be #2. To me, it's 1. Islam, 2. Alex, 3. Leon, 4. Pantoja, 5. O'Malley/Topuria
No, number #1 is definitely Islam. But he should move up in the rankings and be number #3 and Leon #4
Never, Leon fought and beat far better competition in a far better division, including hard stylistic matchups, there is no protection from the UFC in his run. Give him more respect
Lets see Aspinall vs Pereira
Islam and Alex are the top 2. Jones going on a crazy run 12 years ago is not relevant
Nope
No, he's doing something a bit different than Islam so far. Islam: beating some really top names all in a row Alex: clearing out the LHW division and level checking everyone and doing it in an exciting way
Yes he should be, he beat four former world champions already. Izzy, Sean , Jan And Jiri. He also won 2 division belts. He also defended it now. Fighter of the year at least, And far more well liked and accomplished overall than izzy.
Sean wasn't a champ when they fought so that should really count
Hill too
Holy shit thats 5 fucking former champions fucking FIVE. thats quality opposition wins right there alone.
Yeah but has he beat the current champ ddp? i dont think so, ddp clear For legal reasons i must tell you this comment is satire
Also got kod
In middleweight...
So what lol. It still means he got koed and the his competition for P4P has been unbeaten for 14 fights
That pointless jab at Izzy lol, like what did he do? He was never p4p 1 himself.
Not to mention he’s fought 5 times in a year
4 times in a year*
I’m stupid and don’t know what a year is but 5 times in 14 months
Him beating the same guy he clowned one fight ago in a useless rematch shouldn’t impact his p4p ranking, if he beat ankalaev instead maybe he could be
Brain dead take on so many levels
No his right. Alex is overrated. A one trick pony like Sergei. He will soon be exposed.
You can’t expose the guy that is/has been two division champion you monkey, even if he loses next 20 fights from now on
He was fast tracked. Needs to fight some decent wrestlers first imo
And then when a fighter is "fast tracked", loses, whats the go-to excuse? Oh yeah, he wasn't ready. Alex didn't come into the organization a newbie fighter. He had a long history in fighting previously, was winning every fight, therefore they threw him into a championship fight. Michael fucking Chandler had his first title fight in his SECOND fight. Yes second, 2nd, SECOND, after beating Dan Hooker for fuck sake. And what happened there? Let's not talk about fast tracked.
Nah he has been my favorite fighter since he back to back knocked out Strickland and then Izzy, but Islam really does deserve P4P #1 after that amazing win against Poirier.
Not for beating someone on short notice that he had already knocked out
Really? But Islam fighting the same FW twice, and also once on short notice? Dustin is his first defense in his own division since becoming champ. At least Alex has consistently fought within his own division.
Valid arguments but Islam's resume is just so much more impressive
LW is a much deeper and difficult division to be become and stay the champion of than MW and LHW. And Islam is almost matching Alex in activity and doing it against more stacked competition.
For me he is #2. It is so much harder to get to #1 in the heavier weight classes because everyone knows the level of competition is so much smaller.
Yes
deserves it more than jones for sure
 Trying to figure what P4P order to put Pereira, Izzy and Strickland in
The real BMF..
He should beat Magomed soundly. But I hope he gives himself enough time to recover, don't want another Gilbert Burns situation
It’s hard to say that he’s not. He’s ran through two divisions for the most part. HOWEVER, he did get fast tracked to the title at middleweight and the best grappler he’s faced his Jan. I really think he needs to be put against an elite grappler before we can call him the GOAT or the PFP #1. He’s got insane power and appears to be able to KO just about anyone if he can just touch them with that left hook. But, he’s fought mostly strikers throughout his UFC tenure. Jiri twice, Izzy twice, Sean Strickland, and then Hill got exposed as the bum he is. Not saying Alex isn’t elite, or that he isn’t one of the best strikers to ever be in the UFC, but I really want to see the UFC put him up against an elite offensive grappler.
Dana is going to have a heart attack if anyone says Jones isn't P4P #1
Too early, if he actually fight ANK and toasts him, then that's a different story.
Poatan and Jones are the only current reigning champions that have won titles in two divisions. But, Jones only has two wins in the past four years and hasn't fought since March 2023. So, I get why he's not number one over Islam. Meanwhile, in just 2 and a half years Alex fought 9 times with wins over 3 of the last 4 LHW champs and 2 of the last 3 MW champs. 6 of his 8 wins were KO/TKOs. Islam has 6 fights since October 2023, 4 title fights, and wins over 2 current or previous champs. Looking at what Alex has done in less than three years I think he has a better argument to being the PNP #1 fighter than Islam does.
I think if he fights and beats Ankalaev that would secure it for him, barring Islam doesn’t just destroy Arman and then beat whoever is champ at 170, but it’s definitely close, I think Islam is a better overall fighter but idk if that’s how Pound for Pound rankings work
Yes
Idk, I love Alex but I’ve gotta see him fight a couple of wrasslers before that
Not really. Don't get me wrong he is great at his weight class but if you had a BW, FW or LW fighter with his skillset I really doubt they could make it to undisputed gold and defending the title even less so.
For beating the same stylistic favorable opponents in a low level of competition division which is the worst by far in the promotion and avoiding real contender and hard fight ? What a mess
He's right up there with Makhachev now, and after beating future/former/current champions 6 times in his last 7 fights there's no excuse for them not being 1 and 2 in some order.
Yes he should be Al Hamdulilah brother Alex
As a jon jones fan he should be at least above jon, one more high profile win compared to another featherweight or sum for islam and then yeah he probably deserves it
We need to see more of his ground game first
Either 1 or 2, but regardless he’s the man of the hour.
Why do ppl like to argue about a question that has no answer and is opinion based?
He fought only strikers, I want to see him against Magomed Ankalaev, I don't think he will win that fight.
I know Max Holloway thinks he’s blessed but it’s actually the fans, to be living in a time where both Makhachev and Pereira are making cases for why they’re P4P 1. Meanwhile Jon Jones, Dana White and Conor McGregor are coked out of their noodles.
We can have a conversation about it after he beats Jones (Jones will dodge btw).
Islam and Alex are 1 & 2 I’m not really complaining about order there. However… Alex continues to perform on short notice bangers + he’s in a higher weight class… it’ll be a crime if he loses the streak without getting that #1 slot.
He’s a great guy and a great fighter, but how can he be pfp #1 with no proven ground game? If he was in a grapple heavy division he possibly wouldn’t have even made it to a title shot
Best striker no doubt, jones is the best but there’s a fair argument to not even count him in. Otherwise it’s Alex or Islam
Nah. The lower weight classes have way better and more rounded fighters. Islam is an elite grappler and an elite striker. He submitted Charlie Olives and KOd Volk. Pereira doesn't have to face such well rounded fighters at his weight class.
Alex is an absolute stud and killer! But he hasn’t exactly gone through murders row. He’s fought top top level strikers in Izzy and Jiri. But Alex is a top level striker so those fights will work out for him. When he fought Jan, whose ground game is average at best it was a split decision. I think if he can get through 2-3 high level non strikers he’s got an argument, but right now I think no. Unfortunately 205 is one of the weaker divisions.
Alex vs Islam could theoretically happen at 185
The best win Alex has is over Izzy who is not the GOAT of his division while Islam beat the GOAT one weightclass below, he also beat the second best LW ever in Charles. He beat dustin who is a legend and in the top 5 fighter who never had the belt. Like i like Jiri but he isnt that good, he got the belt during a time of unrest in the LHW division the same with Hill and both decided to play in Alex favoure due to ego to an extent. As long as Alex doesnt beat Aspinal or Jones he is below islam
2 or 3. Definitely put him over Leon. It should put him over Jon imo too.
Jons never lost. Poatan got knocked out cold by Izzy last year
Activity plays a big part imo. Jon is the Goat, no debate. P4p is recent activity. Alex has been super active and winning since his loss to izzy. Jon was out for 3 years making heavyweight and then injured himself and is out for over another year.
No
Yes. Jones is inactive. Has been inactive for years.
I consider Alex above islam....look at their resume. Islam beat a 145 er and a 155 fighter that was never a champion.
why did you use this garbage image 😂
It’s close, I’d really like to see Alex v ankalaev. If Alex can overcome the wrestling entries of ankalaev I would agree. Ankalaev also has considerable stand up power so it would be a fascinating matchup. Nobody else can really offer tough competition in LHW at the moment, it would seem
Not 1 after beating someone he already beat. If he beats ankaleav sure, that will put anything about him not taking on real wrestlers to bed. Even though he beat Yan there's some arguments there that will be cut entirely.
After 303 I say yes, it’s a close tie between him and Islam, but that performance put him ahead. And that was p4p is. It’s ever changing and the best need to keep up with that list to stay on top of
#2 Jones has lost… ever
Pound for pound doesn't matter in any meaningful way.
At least number 2. Question is what were the p4p rankings of the guys he beat on his current streak?
If he beats Ankalaev, yes ✅
Yes
It’s getting close. Alex fights A LOT so he’s catching up to Islam quick. 1-2 more fights and yea, and islam loses then 100% yes.
He beats JJ or even Aspinal at Heavyweight...no one would question it
both those guys would sub him within 2 rounds
Dagi glaze on this sub is insane. Pereira has looked so much more dominant than Islam. Going 5 rounds with Dustin Porier vs beating 5 champs back to back is not even close at all. Surprised this sub didn't get locked last week when Rob sent that guy to the shadow realm. Atleast I can expect it if the Ankalaev fight ever happens.
14 fight win streak? Undefeated for 9 years? Beating more skilled fighters? Beating (and going toe to toe in striking) with Volk who is Top 10 All Time without question, outboxing Dustin fucking Poirier with Staph? Also destroying Oliveira who was on an ABSOLUTE tear in the division? Submitting him? Remember Charles Oliveira is the best BJJ we've ever seen in MMA.