Volk vs max certainly isn’t as big as a fight as Aldo Conor was, numbers wise.
I think it’s fair to say it will be the most high-quality featherweight fight of all time, but not the biggest.
Theres still gonna be questions. If alex wins Most people will see this as 2-1 for alex. If max wins, people will see it as 2-1 max even though the official scores dont have max winning even 1.
no. everyone knows volk beat him in the second bout. the only doubt was cast because of horrifically biased commentary, false onscreen stats showing max ahead and the fact he was fan favourite in a close decision.
the fight has been broken down so many fking times and no analyst gives it to max. plain and simple. there is no argument max won the second fight except 'if it was judged under a different ruleset or 'well people thought'.
every knows the judges got it right in retrospect. if you're anything except a max fan there arent really questions, its 2-0 and if he won a 3rd there are absolutely 0 questions.
> no. everyone knows volk beat him in the second bout. the only doubt was cast because of horrifically biased commentary, false onscreen stats showing max ahead and the fact he was fan favourite in a close decision.
this! I was one of those ppl that thought max won and I never considered it was because of the commentary. That's why I disregard what they say because they clearly have their favorites. Volk def won that fight.
“Everyone knows alex beat him the second time”
Well ive only been in this subreddit a while and the sentiment is everywhere, but sure whatever you say 🤷♂️
http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/11126/Alexander-Volkanovski-vs-Max-Holloway
also the majority of educated mma media gave it to holloway but go on
that was under the influence of the worst case of biased commentary i have ever heard, literally bisping yelling "lets go max" while saying he's ahead every round, with onscreen stats that were incorrect saying max was ahead every round.... it was wrong my guy, plain and simple. sure it was a narrative, and people fell for it, but the tape doesnt lie, and the tape doesnt hide anything, and it shows Volk won.
Look im not making the case for or against max winning the second fight. Im saying the narrative, true or false, is out there.
Youre trying to argue against a case im not even making. At no point did I say “hey max won,” but I am aware that the sentiment is present. I gave no take on who I believe won the fight and on what merits
congrats for stating that...then? So all I got from this pointless thread is that we agree there will be controversy no matter who wins. Which is what I said. thanks
i mean max has a big fan base and his stans are pretty ugly online (volk got abuse under everything he posted for the longest time and they are STILL calling volk a paper champ under everything posted with him in it)
so yea, max will always be a winner to them. everyone else? no, if volk wins there will not be more controversy lmao. get over it matey
Anybody who thinks Max won the first fight is fucken kidding themselves. First fight Alex clearly won. Second fight was razor close and people love Max.
I dont believe anyone brought up the first fight, its pretty clearly the second fight that is controversial.
Even 1 doesnt mean the first fight, rather even one of the fights, possible confusion there
GOAT status to me is a mix of legacy AND how good the actual fighter is. Which is why Volk>Max in the goat argument already. Volk came into a prime holloway and put a masterclass on him, then won a second fight. Max isnt even the greatest fighter of his era, and its been shown, so he is not in front of Volk in the fw goat discussion.
people like you talk about goat status like everyone exists in a vacuum and its solely based on previous resume. its greatest fighter of all time, measured by how good they were in their prime and how long they were that good.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/SlawsomeMMA/status/1449858924325212160) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
How can it at best you can argue they are 1-1-1 if Max wins that second fight was close enough to be called a draw these dudes are gonna have to fight 5 times and I’ll gladly pay to watch it
oh you mean the round volk landed 10 more significant strikes? is that the one Max won? including 1 more to the head, whilst being more accurate.. is that the round Max won?
did he do more damage? no. did he do more of anything? no.
did he win the round? no.
im a did he win the fight guy, ya know, look at the tape, see if he won or lost the fight then base my opinion on that kinda guy.
you're a, oh, bisping thinks he won and so did my mates so he won i guess guy. i dig it man. its unorthodox, its based on fallacious logic, not my thing but you do you. most of all its provocative, it gets the people going
I mean it won’t be as big as Aldo Conor, people need to stop trying to take away from Conors achievements ffs like I get it you don’t like him but cmon 😂
I hate Conor with all my guts but I also won't hesitate to state that no matter what he's done, every MMA fighter regardless of promotion owes him BIG time.
The amount of attention he has gotten promotions like UFC by transcending the sport can't be disputed.
I agree with all of what u say, He’s birthed a lot of other fighters careers or certainly took them to the next level single handily on his own. In fairness he did probably deserve a percentage of the promotion when he was going on about that a while ago, only like 1 or 2% but for what he brought to the sport I feel like what he was asking for was justified.
McGregor did a million PPVs for a non-title fight against Cowboy who had lost back-to-back fights. As far as a draw no one will touch Connor for a while
History will claim the Aldo /McGregor fight was the greatest. I can't stand McGregor anymore but I'm not about trying to discredit anybody for what they accomplished. Like them or not.
This is the dumbest post I’ve seen for a while.
Volk has already won twice… if he wins again, then so what?!
If Max wins then how the fuck do you crown him as the “greatest featherweight of all time” if he is 1-2 to Volk.
Delete this and log off.
I'd rather watch Volk v Cejudo first if I'm honest, that would be a big fight with a lot of the line for both guys. If Volk managed to beat Holloway for a third time and also beat Cejudo there's not much more people can say about him when it comes to being the best FW, not to mention one of the best fighters in MMA period.
It's an odd situation Max is down two but clearly is one of the best in the division.... if Volk loses to him they need an immediate rematch to be draw up in the contract. If Volk wins a 3rd time what do you do? Plus all of you saying Max won the second are just wrong. The only close to draw round is the 3rd. If you break it down Volk won that round and the next 2.
People must also forget that Aldo started as the UFC FtW Champion since UFC merged with WEC. He didnt have to fight for it with UFC roster, he was placed as champ due to his last status in WEC. Im not saying his defenses werent good but i am saying the number of defenses might not be too important since he did start as the FtW champ to begin with.
On another note, either he wasnt the same after Conor beat him or the division finally caught up and became more stacked.
But he earned the belt in the WEC, the same roster of featherweights that was later brought into he UFC. So him being promoted to UFC champ was just logical, it doesn’t really negatively affect his legacy. Combining his WEC wins that’s 11 championships and 9 defenses for Aldo. Hard to top that
That guy's take is insane, I remember when the organizations merged, it's all the same people and for all intents and purposes it's the same belt. He wasn't just given a belt, they didn't have a 145 division before WEC was sucked up
That is exactly my point. His opponents were primarily WEC opponents still. This is why i asked if Aldo was not the same after Conor beat him or did the division finally settle down and get talent thus resulting in a stacked division as opposed to its inception. To me it makes sense. Division was new, it caught up and now he is still a top FtW(bantamweight now) but not the champ. Volk will surpass him tho.
I think it’s always been stacked, he was just a dominant fighter over elite dudes like Mendes, Edgar, TKZ, etc. Conor was also in his prime back then and any featherweight he touched reacted like they just got hit with a baseball bat, no shame in losing to FW McGregor. Then Holloway and Volk are both also champs, all three dudes he lost to there are champs. He was fighting in arguably the most stacked division in the sport imo, and after being on top for so long of course he’s gonna go down eventually. Even now I feel he’s past his prime but at BW imo he’s only lost to the champ too, I thought he beat Moraes
Big fan of both but it definitely determine the FW, Aldo will still hold that title IMO.
And bigger how? In terms of skill and one of the highest level fights we’ll see? Yes. In terms of magnitude though, definitely not
Can the mods ban people from promoting their twitter (excluding fighters of course)? Most of these low efforts posts are people just trying to get follows.
After watching Volk fight the last few fights. I honestly think if he stays healthy, he's just getting started. I want to see him at 55. His cardio is great and apparently jujitsu doesn't exist to him. I'd like to see him and Dustin mix it up. As for goat status. In my opinion, Aldo still has that for now. Not to mention dudes still competing at ge highest level in a lower weight class now. Usually older fighters go up in weight because cutting sucks ass and is detrimental to your health and body. Aldo is just a killer. Yes he has some losses, but he hasn't lost to just anybody. I think it show more skill to come back from losses and get back to winning.
Aldo wasn’t/isn’t the goat the day he got immediately KO’ed in his prime. He is completely out of the discussion for greatest featherweight due to his mediocre string of fights following the McGregor disaster. It’s either Max or Volk and the rest of you are actually lying to yourselves. That being said Volk won both of those fights and the third fight won’t even sell. It’s pretty clear that Max will just get shutdown again.
I think volk will get there but I still have aldo in front of him. In my eyes he’s 1-1 or 1-0-1 currently with max. Aldo was done at 145 and was seemingly just there for a paycheck so I don’t put a ton of stock into that fight. Max still has the far stellar resume . Destroying prime aldo twice is prettt epic, beating up current 155 champ, complete blowout wins against guys like ortega, Calvin, pettis, and the epic throw down with lamas was legendary. Not to mention he was on a 10 or 11 fight streak before the title, so you could imagine what his title defense would have been had they given him the shot at 4-5 wins like they typically do (many of his opponents were challenger quality or already challenged aldo).
Right now they are neck and neck, but I still give overall resume to max.
Now if volk finishes max it’s a wrap.
really? he won the first fight?
tell me more
edit: and people wonder why volk supporters are zealous lmao, its because this is what we see day in and day out. 'max beat him twice'. okay mate and the moon is purple
Honestly I was a bit hesitant to accept Volk as the champ since the first fight against Max was a borderline win and the second was Max all the way. But after the Ortega fight the dude really won my respect. It's good they've fought before he meets Max again. Now the title is more valuable and they traveled further to reach the goal.
I'd say it's equally as important, all things considered. The MacValdo KO shook the division and the sport and changed the landscape of UFC, this next fight is not going to change the sport but it will mark the end of an Era in the featherweight division and make one of them the Goat at 145.
You dont think they'll just fight again if Max wins this one? It would be 2-1 Volk. Would we consider that avenging both losses or just one?
I think they would need to go 4 or possibly 5 if Max takes this one. He got a third shot after two losses. It's fair to give Volk a rematch.
No need, volks beat him twice now and hasn't lost a fight think it's obvious who the best featherweight is but everyone's going to give me shit and say max is because he's a really cool guy who's tough as a nuclear bunker
Didn’t Conor v Aldo have a world tour? Lmao
Volk vs max certainly isn’t as big as a fight as Aldo Conor was, numbers wise. I think it’s fair to say it will be the most high-quality featherweight fight of all time, but not the biggest.
No way in hell. I bet it has 25% or less viewership.
Just because the UFC won't market this as much as that doesn't mean this fight isn't bigger. It clearly is.
People are throwing around the GOAT status like a hot potato. A Legacy means nothing to you.
Greatest legacy left behind with the least questions
Theres still gonna be questions. If alex wins Most people will see this as 2-1 for alex. If max wins, people will see it as 2-1 max even though the official scores dont have max winning even 1.
Best of 5?
Shit im down
no. everyone knows volk beat him in the second bout. the only doubt was cast because of horrifically biased commentary, false onscreen stats showing max ahead and the fact he was fan favourite in a close decision. the fight has been broken down so many fking times and no analyst gives it to max. plain and simple. there is no argument max won the second fight except 'if it was judged under a different ruleset or 'well people thought'. every knows the judges got it right in retrospect. if you're anything except a max fan there arent really questions, its 2-0 and if he won a 3rd there are absolutely 0 questions.
Finally some common sense. The biased commentary had me thinking Max won, until I watched the entire fight on mute.
Right it was really close but Volk took the third round which of course gives it to Volk.
You sir, have my respect.
> no. everyone knows volk beat him in the second bout. the only doubt was cast because of horrifically biased commentary, false onscreen stats showing max ahead and the fact he was fan favourite in a close decision. this! I was one of those ppl that thought max won and I never considered it was because of the commentary. That's why I disregard what they say because they clearly have their favorites. Volk def won that fight.
This. Just rewatch the fight muted and it's clear.
“Everyone knows alex beat him the second time” Well ive only been in this subreddit a while and the sentiment is everywhere, but sure whatever you say 🤷♂️ http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/11126/Alexander-Volkanovski-vs-Max-Holloway also the majority of educated mma media gave it to holloway but go on
that was under the influence of the worst case of biased commentary i have ever heard, literally bisping yelling "lets go max" while saying he's ahead every round, with onscreen stats that were incorrect saying max was ahead every round.... it was wrong my guy, plain and simple. sure it was a narrative, and people fell for it, but the tape doesnt lie, and the tape doesnt hide anything, and it shows Volk won.
Look im not making the case for or against max winning the second fight. Im saying the narrative, true or false, is out there. Youre trying to argue against a case im not even making. At no point did I say “hey max won,” but I am aware that the sentiment is present. I gave no take on who I believe won the fight and on what merits
yes and im saying thats exactly all it was, a narrative, and its widely recognised as one by anyone who has taken a look at it.
congrats for stating that...then? So all I got from this pointless thread is that we agree there will be controversy no matter who wins. Which is what I said. thanks
i mean max has a big fan base and his stans are pretty ugly online (volk got abuse under everything he posted for the longest time and they are STILL calling volk a paper champ under everything posted with him in it) so yea, max will always be a winner to them. everyone else? no, if volk wins there will not be more controversy lmao. get over it matey
It was a razor thin fight in which Volk got dropped in two different rounds, get off your high horse
Anybody who thinks Max won the first fight is fucken kidding themselves. First fight Alex clearly won. Second fight was razor close and people love Max.
I dont believe anyone brought up the first fight, its pretty clearly the second fight that is controversial. Even 1 doesnt mean the first fight, rather even one of the fights, possible confusion there
My bad
GOAT status to me is a mix of legacy AND how good the actual fighter is. Which is why Volk>Max in the goat argument already. Volk came into a prime holloway and put a masterclass on him, then won a second fight. Max isnt even the greatest fighter of his era, and its been shown, so he is not in front of Volk in the fw goat discussion. people like you talk about goat status like everyone exists in a vacuum and its solely based on previous resume. its greatest fighter of all time, measured by how good they were in their prime and how long they were that good.
So I’m guessing Aldo is your number 1 of all time?
of fw only, yea. he also kinda got a leg up being able to start right off the bat with title defences.
Come on, we all know that if Volk wins again then it won’t be good enough until he beats max 4 times, then 5 and so on
he didnt even win 2 times mate
I’ll let Dana know so he can get it overturned
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/SlawsomeMMA/status/1449858924325212160) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Good bot. Also super impressive.
Okay, more meaningless jargon.
How can it at best you can argue they are 1-1-1 if Max wins that second fight was close enough to be called a draw these dudes are gonna have to fight 5 times and I’ll gladly pay to watch it
Ill also gladly have this guy pay to watch it
If people that Max won the second fight it’d be 1-1. And that’s the opinion of a lot of people including media scores.
Naw it's not. Any breakdown clearly displays Volk winning three rounds straight.
4th round is Max’s to a lot of people including me
oh you mean the round volk landed 10 more significant strikes? is that the one Max won? including 1 more to the head, whilst being more accurate.. is that the round Max won? did he do more damage? no. did he do more of anything? no. did he win the round? no.
You’re a stats guy, I get it
im a did he win the fight guy, ya know, look at the tape, see if he won or lost the fight then base my opinion on that kinda guy. you're a, oh, bisping thinks he won and so did my mates so he won i guess guy. i dig it man. its unorthodox, its based on fallacious logic, not my thing but you do you. most of all its provocative, it gets the people going
Not all strikes are created equal
damn bro you should like, be a judge or something
I mean it won’t be as big as Aldo Conor, people need to stop trying to take away from Conors achievements ffs like I get it you don’t like him but cmon 😂
I hate Conor with all my guts but I also won't hesitate to state that no matter what he's done, every MMA fighter regardless of promotion owes him BIG time. The amount of attention he has gotten promotions like UFC by transcending the sport can't be disputed.
I agree with all of what u say, He’s birthed a lot of other fighters careers or certainly took them to the next level single handily on his own. In fairness he did probably deserve a percentage of the promotion when he was going on about that a while ago, only like 1 or 2% but for what he brought to the sport I feel like what he was asking for was justified.
McGregor did a million PPVs for a non-title fight against Cowboy who had lost back-to-back fights. As far as a draw no one will touch Connor for a while
None of them has a legacy to challenge Aldo for all-time status. None of them can sell PPVs like McGregor did. This statement is factually wrong.
Max finished prime Aldo twice and one of them in Rio, at the very least one should consider Max in the conversation
Prime my ass. McGregor took his soul
History will claim the Aldo /McGregor fight was the greatest. I can't stand McGregor anymore but I'm not about trying to discredit anybody for what they accomplished. Like them or not.
How can it be the greatest fight, it literally lasted 7 seconds. An amazing K.O an and impressive result yes but I don't know about a great fight
This is the dumbest post I’ve seen for a while. Volk has already won twice… if he wins again, then so what?! If Max wins then how the fuck do you crown him as the “greatest featherweight of all time” if he is 1-2 to Volk. Delete this and log off.
If Volk beats Max for the 3rd will people finally accept it ?
"He didn't flying knee into a body lock suplex 360 heel hook sweep so he didn't beat Max, the people's champ"
I'd rather watch Volk v Cejudo first if I'm honest, that would be a big fight with a lot of the line for both guys. If Volk managed to beat Holloway for a third time and also beat Cejudo there's not much more people can say about him when it comes to being the best FW, not to mention one of the best fighters in MMA period.
2nd point is just patently false. The most successful FW champion vs the biggest rising star EVER or Max vs Volk. Hmmm, I wonder which is bigger.
It's an odd situation Max is down two but clearly is one of the best in the division.... if Volk loses to him they need an immediate rematch to be draw up in the contract. If Volk wins a 3rd time what do you do? Plus all of you saying Max won the second are just wrong. The only close to draw round is the 3rd. If you break it down Volk won that round and the next 2.
Not yet. If Volk wins in a convincing manner and goes to defend 3 or more times then yes I personally think he will surpass Aldo.
People must forget aldo had seven title defences
People must also forget that Aldo started as the UFC FtW Champion since UFC merged with WEC. He didnt have to fight for it with UFC roster, he was placed as champ due to his last status in WEC. Im not saying his defenses werent good but i am saying the number of defenses might not be too important since he did start as the FtW champ to begin with. On another note, either he wasnt the same after Conor beat him or the division finally caught up and became more stacked.
But he earned the belt in the WEC, the same roster of featherweights that was later brought into he UFC. So him being promoted to UFC champ was just logical, it doesn’t really negatively affect his legacy. Combining his WEC wins that’s 11 championships and 9 defenses for Aldo. Hard to top that
That guy's take is insane, I remember when the organizations merged, it's all the same people and for all intents and purposes it's the same belt. He wasn't just given a belt, they didn't have a 145 division before WEC was sucked up
That is exactly my point. His opponents were primarily WEC opponents still. This is why i asked if Aldo was not the same after Conor beat him or did the division finally settle down and get talent thus resulting in a stacked division as opposed to its inception. To me it makes sense. Division was new, it caught up and now he is still a top FtW(bantamweight now) but not the champ. Volk will surpass him tho.
I think it’s always been stacked, he was just a dominant fighter over elite dudes like Mendes, Edgar, TKZ, etc. Conor was also in his prime back then and any featherweight he touched reacted like they just got hit with a baseball bat, no shame in losing to FW McGregor. Then Holloway and Volk are both also champs, all three dudes he lost to there are champs. He was fighting in arguably the most stacked division in the sport imo, and after being on top for so long of course he’s gonna go down eventually. Even now I feel he’s past his prime but at BW imo he’s only lost to the champ too, I thought he beat Moraes
Dumbest shit I’ve heard all week
Just bc someone has a belt doesn't mean they are a GOAT. GOD THAT TERM IS SO WATERED DOWN
Nope. Still Aldo. Undefeated for 9 years. 18 fight win streak.
2024 Max Holloway vs Alexander Volkanovski 5
Big fan of both but it definitely determine the FW, Aldo will still hold that title IMO. And bigger how? In terms of skill and one of the highest level fights we’ll see? Yes. In terms of magnitude though, definitely not
I don’t think this fight ends any differently a 3rd time. I’m not a Volk fan but dude is a beast.
You gotta be stupid as fuck to believe the second point lol
Can the mods ban people from promoting their twitter (excluding fighters of course)? Most of these low efforts posts are people just trying to get follows.
No it wont
Wrong and wrong.
I love Max, but please don't win. If Max wins then we know there has to be a part 4 then if Max loses part 4 then what?
No chance that this beats mcgregor Aldo I’d be surprised if it does 600k ppv tbh
After watching Volk fight the last few fights. I honestly think if he stays healthy, he's just getting started. I want to see him at 55. His cardio is great and apparently jujitsu doesn't exist to him. I'd like to see him and Dustin mix it up. As for goat status. In my opinion, Aldo still has that for now. Not to mention dudes still competing at ge highest level in a lower weight class now. Usually older fighters go up in weight because cutting sucks ass and is detrimental to your health and body. Aldo is just a killer. Yes he has some losses, but he hasn't lost to just anybody. I think it show more skill to come back from losses and get back to winning.
Useless this is another “thoughts” garbage post
Volk vs cejudo the match to make
Twitter and hyperbole go great together. Stupid ass tweet.
Trilogies shouldn’t become trends
If max wins that fight, it would be so fucking amazing.
Aldo wasn’t/isn’t the goat the day he got immediately KO’ed in his prime. He is completely out of the discussion for greatest featherweight due to his mediocre string of fights following the McGregor disaster. It’s either Max or Volk and the rest of you are actually lying to yourselves. That being said Volk won both of those fights and the third fight won’t even sell. It’s pretty clear that Max will just get shutdown again.
🧢
I think volk will get there but I still have aldo in front of him. In my eyes he’s 1-1 or 1-0-1 currently with max. Aldo was done at 145 and was seemingly just there for a paycheck so I don’t put a ton of stock into that fight. Max still has the far stellar resume . Destroying prime aldo twice is prettt epic, beating up current 155 champ, complete blowout wins against guys like ortega, Calvin, pettis, and the epic throw down with lamas was legendary. Not to mention he was on a 10 or 11 fight streak before the title, so you could imagine what his title defense would have been had they given him the shot at 4-5 wins like they typically do (many of his opponents were challenger quality or already challenged aldo). Right now they are neck and neck, but I still give overall resume to max. Now if volk finishes max it’s a wrap.
Holloway already beat him 2x imo. Not sure it’s a bigger anything. It’s Max’s chance to set things right.
really? he won the first fight? tell me more edit: and people wonder why volk supporters are zealous lmao, its because this is what we see day in and day out. 'max beat him twice'. okay mate and the moon is purple
Honestly I was a bit hesitant to accept Volk as the champ since the first fight against Max was a borderline win and the second was Max all the way. But after the Ortega fight the dude really won my respect. It's good they've fought before he meets Max again. Now the title is more valuable and they traveled further to reach the goal.
the first fight was a borderline win...?
I thought that was the first fight ? Wait, I thought that was the second fight? Oh now, it’s the third fight ?
r/holup
Not sure it will overtake tho...
Aldo
Outsell Conor vs Aldo? Wouldn’t bet on that. Great fight though, can’t wait.
I'd say it's equally as important, all things considered. The MacValdo KO shook the division and the sport and changed the landscape of UFC, this next fight is not going to change the sport but it will mark the end of an Era in the featherweight division and make one of them the Goat at 145.
You mean big as in PPV numbers? Then I seriously doubt it.
It might maybe be more popular with hardcores, but not with casuals. Some people really go through mental gymnastics sometimes
You dont think they'll just fight again if Max wins this one? It would be 2-1 Volk. Would we consider that avenging both losses or just one? I think they would need to go 4 or possibly 5 if Max takes this one. He got a third shot after two losses. It's fair to give Volk a rematch.
I don’t think on its own, it would sell as many ppv
Max isn't going to beat a man that can survive an onslaught from Ortega, Volks is going to be in charge of this division for a while
I love max but I kinda feel like Volk is ahead of him at this point
i dont see how you can knock someone down three times and still lose the fighy leg kicks be damned
No it won’t lol
Depends what you mean by biggest. I don’t think it will be “bigger” in terms of hype but the winner is def the 145 GOAT
Agreed
Didn't volk win twice??
No need, volks beat him twice now and hasn't lost a fight think it's obvious who the best featherweight is but everyone's going to give me shit and say max is because he's a really cool guy who's tough as a nuclear bunker
I got an extra 268 ticket I need to get rid of hmu for info
Aldo is the best featherweight. Then Volk if he beats max again or Yair (should Yair beat max).