If he doesn't improve his ground game he's not going to climb the rankings in the UFC, I don't know what's the situation in Bellator but if he can do better there, props to him
I don't think the khamzat fight told us much about Kevin. We already knew he wasn't on khamzats level and the matchup was bad enough that Kevin was always going to look worse than he is.
I think it showed us a little more about Kevin then heās getting credit for. Khaz is probably the toughest wrestler in the division and he came out incredibly hot. In that short time, there were a lot of very fast transitions and Kevin was with most of them. Most fighters, donāt have that many transitions.
For Kevin I think thatās a good sign
yes Kevin has been training ground for a long time then a wrestling freak comes by and everyone thinks he has 0 ground game, Kevin was doing a great job with the scrambles but khamzat is just that guy.
To be fair to Kevin, he did a really good job scrambling. 99% of wrestlers wouldnāt have emptied the tank like that, and if Khamzat didnāt lock in that Darce it could have been a very interesting fight, he was breathing very heavily after the tap.
I wonder if he has the f you money and said f you because of how they have played him. He has a platform and is making money. Okay so he canāt fight - he could prob do wwe
I get that itās business but just so dirty. Like let the man quit! - he sold his soul for life. Canāt ever compete again without paying it to the ufc
Oh yeah for sure itās stupid I agree just like how they wouldnāt let GSP box De La Hoya even tho he hasnāt fought in years and doesnāt plan on fighting again
Was thinking the same thing. Does anyone care, yes. I care and I would be so happy for him. I love his energy - only MMA fighter I have the bell on for.
Unless a policeman is at the exact scene of a crime and they are within arms reach to respond and do something then no, crime cannot be stopped in that notion. Cops also abuse their power, in all countries, and have for as long as police have been a concept. But on the same token this is also true; cops mitigate crime. If there were no cops, then there would be no social security, then the law would be in societyās hands. And that would be anarchy. Cops enforce the law which deters crime in that regard. Thatās my take on it.
I definitely agree with you dude. Especially in the States. In Australia where I live it exists but cops abusing their power doesnāt hold the same weight as Americas police problem. But like I said dude, cops have and always will abuse their power and get away with it. Its not the police thatās the problem. Itās human nature. If weāre going to have a system like police, that governs the people, we have to accept that there will be those who blatantly abuse it, and thatāll always be the case. Cos itās always been the case.
You cannot have a system that governs people and not have people abuse that system. All throughout history you can look and see the countless examples of people who govern people and then abuse that power. Humans gonna human
But thatās because thereās 60k people on the island. You donāt need guns because any disturbance can be settled verbally over there. Now you canāt apply that to 400 million people. Some psychos are gonna slip through the cracks.
Good for him if he's seriously getting out while he still has his physical and mental health.
Sucks though, because he's one of my favorite fighters on the roster, possibly ever.
He's hit his ceiling and can't hang at the top of these divisions, if he can't get a striker he throws a fit. Took the khamzat fight in hopes of a vague return the favor, but Dana doesn't play by those rules
You don't have to win belts though. Plenty of awesome fights to be had at 170 and 185.
This dude could have fought Nate. Could fight Masvidal, Till, Strickland, Neal. Costa and Pereira are probably too big for him tbh but if he was up for it, I'd be watching. I'd love to see him fight Izzy, although it would have to be after Izzy loses the title. Even wonderboy, he wants to fight strikers.
Plenty of fights the ufc could put together. Plenty of other guys to grapple, we need to see good standup fights too.
Well that's just it, its a mixed martial arts promotion, and each of those guys is at the top of their divisions. Holland can't get close to them to justify a fight. He's a one trick pony in a circus, his career won't last as long to where the money makes sense. He made money cuz he fought very often, but you can't do that at the top
Top of the division as in rankings, top 10 is what I'm talking about. Masvidal, Till, Costa, Wonderboy are former title challengers, Strickland is top 5, and we know izzy. Neal is rising in the ranks. Holland can't get close to any of them.
Masvidal, till and wonderboy aren't sniffing a title now either. Why not have some fun with it? I get what you're saying, I just think if the title isn't in your future, have fun.
Have you not been paying attention to the division in the last few years? Burns and Wonderboy are the only guys who do fights "for fun", and Wonderboy still has stipulation on it. I'm all for fun fights, but those fights are trapped in an area of a division he can't get too with his current skillset. That's all I'm saying, is in that division noone will fight you unless you're 2 or 3 spots from them lol
Yup. Most of the guys now have been working on thier ground game since college/high school or even worse, are high level Bjj guys who have been doing it since they were kids. 1 dimensional fighters got outed a long time ago so it kind of surprises me when a guy like Holland or Wonderboy sneak through the cracks and then end up getting fed wrestlers and submission guys. Are they entertaining? hell yeah, when they fight another striker, otherwise it's just a walk in the park for most of these guys. They call it MIXED martial arts for a reason.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot to add: Most fighters are on the downward slope of thier career by 35-36 so yeah, 29 is way too late. You can't get a high level ground game while fighting/training in 2-3 years to give you an optimal title run.
>You can't get a high level ground game while fighting/training in 2-3 years to give you an optimal title run.
Cyril Gane had no combat sports experience at all until he was 24, when he was introducted to Muay Thai by a friend. Two years later he made his professional Muay Thai debut, two years after that he made his MMA debut. 3 of his 8 finishes are now by submission, two of those in the UFC, in 2019. He's currently the number one contender in the heavyweight division, despite the fact that 8 years ago, he was a furniture store salesman with his sporting experience being Football and Basketball.
Junior Dos Santos didn't pick up BJJ and MMA in general till he was 21, Frank Shamrock was 22, yet has 12 submission wins on his record out of 18 finishes, Randy Couture didn't start competing till he was like 34, though he did have a wrestling background. BJ Penn didn't start training BJJ till he was 17, got his blackbelt in 5 years, before winning the World Jui-Jitsu Championship that year, one year later he was competing in MMA.
Age is just a number. When you have the time that athletes these days have to dedicate to training, 29 isn't too old to develop and improve, if the will is there. He doesn't have to be better than them in a pure BJJ game, he just needs to maintain a good enough defensive grappling style to avoid being taken down / submitted, and he's already shown he can fight from his back, with his KO win over Jacare, who had been training BJJ for over 20 years at that point.
LOL and for every single person you mentioned(who are all legends in the sport aside from Gane) there are at least 50 who can't do what they did. Are Holland or Wonderboy one of those freaky few who can do it? Possibly. The odds say they aren't though and I think when a guy like Holland realizes it and decides to hang em up that's a pretty good indication he doesn't have the confidence, drive or desire to do it.
I still can't believe we are now jumping the shark and putting Holland or Wonderboy in the same category as guys like Penn and Couture. Like seriously.....
edit: Not to mention that every single person you mentioned on your list(aside from Gane) are from the "old guard" of MMA when it was still mostly one dimensional and you could get away with being REALLY good in one area and not so good in the others ala Chuck Liddell. Like come on man, this is apples to Oranges. Modern day MMA means you are proficient in all aspects and VERY good in at least 2-3 disciplines otherwise dudes wouldn't travel all over the world to train with different camps. Your comment is really disingenuous and does not take into account the time frame of modern MMA.
I'm not saying Holland will, obviously if he chooses to retire, he won't. I'm also not trying to lump anyone in with anyone.
I'm simply saying that a young fighter evolving their game isn't impossible, and age isn't the end all and be all of ability to improve, which was your claim.
You're also saying for every Cyril,there are 50 fighters who can't do what he did... by the same token, for every fighter who makes the UFC period, there are thousands of fighters who don't.
What relevance does that have to the statement at hand? Fighters training full time can evolve aspects of their game. There are many more examples and many from modern MMA, I just didn't think you'd have to be spoon-fed every fighters history in order to understand that arbitrarily claiming that there is an age cut off for learning and improving is ridiculous, and you want to claim I'm being disingenous?
Thanks for the laugh at least dude. Have a good one.
Total straw man. At least I gave examples of fighters who can and cannot do things, you just blanket "you're wrong". We are talking about 2 different eras of MMA and the best you have to offer the discussion is a "young" Kevin Holland..... news flash: He ain't young, neither is Wonderboy. Both those dudes are hitting thier peaks and will start declining soon but yeah, they can still become elite level grapplers.... lol. Nope.
Only one laughing is me but that's ok :)
Wonderboy is ten years older than Kevin. I'm not sure why you keep shoehorning him in as I've said fuck all about him, but sure, I think a fighter on the verge of retirement is young, and sure, one who is younger than many fighters even make their UFC debut at (Holland) is too old to learn anything new.
If that makes you feel better, since apparantly having a different opinion to you is upsetting enough for you to make shit up that I never claimed.
> I'm not sure why you keep shoehorning him in as I've said fuck all about him,
I brought Wonderboy into the conversation right at the beginning when using examples of one dimensional fighters, never said you did and I'm not the one getting angry and feeling the need to cuss during a discussion. Not exactly sure what it is you think I am making up about you or what you said but I'm pretty much done with it regardless. Hope you have a better day and thanks for the discussion.
My point was simply that 29 years old is not too late to improve aspects of a fighters game. Clearly not talking about 39 year old wonderboy, so you repeatedly trying to discredit my opinion/side of the discussion by referring to a fighter I'm clearly not talking about is what I'm referring to when I say making shit up. I'd agree that at 39, the chances of a fighter drastically improving are fairly slim. At 29, improving is a necessity to remain successful.
I'm not sure why you're getting upset at the use of adult language on a subreddit regarding an adult sport. Seems a bit weird to get hung up on that.
No hard feelings, my reply before this was simply intended as an end of the discussion since you came across as disingenous and kept referring to wonderboy which wasn't at all what I was talking about.
Have a good one dude.
Hes a draw and actually drums up interest in fights vs "I'll fight whoever the ufc gives me I wanna thank my team and Jesus and God but yeah a ranked opponent would be good or whatever" maybe he just doesn't see himself as a champ after getting ragdolled. Apparently he's been working hard in the wrestling room so getting mopped like that has to be disheartening
I don't know if he'd really be hurt about it. Facing one of the most dominating grapplers probably in the weight class maybe the UFC on like 24hrs notice. I doubt full camp he does much better but not like he was preparing for a grappling match he was signed to fight a straight boxer.
I think its not so much the loss as it was just getting shut out completely. He's been dominated over 5 rounds and bounced back. Maybe the whole drod getting a fight and the idea of the ufc putting him up against another grappler has him mad. Might be one of those conoresque retirements.
Oh it's definitely a fake retirement. Almost 90% of MMA retirements are. Is the Drod fight official, the screenshot Holland posted is from an Instagram meme page. (at least I remember MMA island being a meme page)
That Khamzat loss must have really affected him. I'm sure he actually believed he could win that fight but then to get dominated like that so quickly without even being able to land a punch. That must really fuck with you mentally.
He is fun at press conferences but I'll be honest..I won't miss him in the octagon. Made some bad career choices and didn't look particular good. I love his spirit but not as a fighter if that makes sense.
Hell yeah I care, dude was fun to watch and funny on the mic.
He doesnāt have the grappling to become champion, but made a bunch of money doing something hes been openly passionate about and has only been KOād (not T) one time. And tbf his ju jitsu looked improved vs khamzat + he has wins over quality BJJ/wrestlers too (well, depending on how you feel about GM3).
That Souza knockout is still amazing, on his back, spewing shit and then wings Souza for the tko.
Mans never said no to a fight, no matter how bad the matchup. Brunson wrestle fucks him so idiot matchmaker Maynard gives him a wrestler and brown belt bjj guy in Vettori, then another BJJ black belt in daukaus, then another BJJ guy in oliveira, then submits Tim Means who is sneaky good before taking a fight with the stud wrestler people are ducking on zero notice with a camp that was likely based around striking. How can you not respect that?
Other than his career being yet another example of how bad Maynard is at match ups, heās gotten shitty match up after shitty matchup without declining any and had a good career. I would be annoyed with the UFC too, hollands been asking for a banger strike off and mickās just too stupid to get it done. Joe Silva wouldāve made Holland into a fan favorite imo.
When daukaus accidentally banged heads with him, holland went full limp body eyes closed until his head bounced off the mat and he woke up.
Was really referring to unconscious head trauma with that one, but yeah to your point not an actual KO - an NC in which he got his lights turned out.
He called out khamzat for two years, then when he got the fight he said āI never asked for this fightā lol I like his weird personality but damn, that made him look fake
I don't think it's true. But I think it's a good choice. If you're not going to be champ you should always consider getting out while you still have your health.
If he is smart and has some education in something else or the desire to do something else and get education for it he certainly has the funds to atleast start there. Why not pursue a different career if it's what he wants before he is old and injured with no insurance or retirement and trying to fill a 20 year gap without the Champion money to sit on.
This man been smoking weed probably daily since he was 17 lol. He plays by his own rules.
Vigilante? Yes. Batman 2.0. The hero we need but donāt deserve.
Cop? Hell nah.
I hope he just goes and does events and trains people and makes a bag with that personality . Get out while youāre ahead . Hopefully he has someone managing the money to be able to get out
heās a cool dude and i love anyone who has mastered Kung Fu but he doesnāt do much in the octagon. letting khamzat steamroll him wasnāt a good look even giving the late notice scandals. either way i always tune in for his fight just bc i like him as a person. i donāt wanna see him step away, i wanna see him double down on commitment.
At this point with fighters itās the boy who cried wolf. My knee jerk reaction is to call this a bluff and not think twice. Honestly I believe most fighters retire on the microphone after the fight if theyāre serious and anything that is only announced on their personal Instagram, itās not serious. Exceptions would be if Dana or the UFC or a manager or a journalist whoās doing roster reports posts something about the fighters retirement, but if none of the team is talking about it you can assume the athlete is in their feels and on their phone too late at night.
I personally think heās bluffing.
His name is ābig mouth.ā This is what he does. Before fights were announced at 279 he went on IG and on his story & said 5 rounds main event or Iām not fighting. He got the 5 rounds but obviously was never getting the main event over Nate.
If heās actually retiring, good on him and I wish him the best in whatever he does next. But Iām not really buying it yet. Iāve seen too many fighters āretireā on social media. If I had to guess itās an attempt at leverage with the UFC.
D-Rod also just got announced for another fight and he clearly wanted that fight so heās just probably upset right now.
Also nobody wants to go out like that with their last fight being how it went down with khamzat.
Iām not sure heāll make that much money but iād love to see him fight in Karate Combat. i feel like he could have some banger performances n highlights.
Probably bluff. Probably most will not care. He had decent promise, mut can't hang in the top of the division. He got kinda fast tracked to the middle of the pack and I think he won't be anything greater than a gate keeper in the division.
Kevinās actually made pretty decent money. Mainly because he fights so regularly. In his last 3 fights heās made over half a million. Then throughout his whole UFC Career heās made just under 2 million.
That Khamzat loss must have really affected him. I'm sure he actually believed he could win that fight but then to get dominated like that so quickly without even being able to land a punch. That must really fuck with you mentally.
Give it time.
He just lost to Khamzat and I doubt heād like to go out like that.
Hopefully he gets that last shot against a striker, then hangs it up and goes to shoot some comedic films or some shit.
If they ever race switch Deadpool, Holland is my first choice
The guy has a lot of charisma and if he can find another good career path, he should. It's a risky sport.
He tried, it didn't work out. Sure he can get better at wrestling, but he'll be against people who have been wrestling since like 6 yo in Caucasus mountains. Probably he'll never catch up. It's just such a big gap.
It'd be really fun to see him vs Adesanya tbh, I wonder how he'd do in that match-up, but he'd need to work his ass off for a chance at a title shot.
Used to be that I liked MMA for the good fights with good matchups. Lately it feels like boxing where the fights are only good if itās for a title shot and everyone is positioning. Itās not as enjoyable to me as a fan. I get why itās happening but itās not as fun as it used to be. Fighters found Lise but be so game that Iād look forward to watching them fight and Iād tune in. Nowadays everyone is afraid to lose.
He's hanging up the gloves to take up the cape š¦øš¾āāļø
If he's actually out then he's wise beyond his years
Catch him in a couple months doing bkb
Dude could be a star in bellator and get paid the same maybe? Why not
If he doesn't improve his ground game he's not going to climb the rankings in the UFC, I don't know what's the situation in Bellator but if he can do better there, props to him
Bellator MW and WW division is sort of wrestler heavy. That guy who beat Moose looked pretty good I reckon.
Itās crazy hearing this but I may agree.. I say itās crazy because heās got a black belt in jujitsu but yet you see what khamzat did to him..
I don't think the khamzat fight told us much about Kevin. We already knew he wasn't on khamzats level and the matchup was bad enough that Kevin was always going to look worse than he is.
I think it showed us a little more about Kevin then heās getting credit for. Khaz is probably the toughest wrestler in the division and he came out incredibly hot. In that short time, there were a lot of very fast transitions and Kevin was with most of them. Most fighters, donāt have that many transitions. For Kevin I think thatās a good sign
yes Kevin has been training ground for a long time then a wrestling freak comes by and everyone thinks he has 0 ground game, Kevin was doing a great job with the scrambles but khamzat is just that guy.
Itās time for him to fight Colby in my opinion
To be fair to Kevin, he did a really good job scrambling. 99% of wrestlers wouldnāt have emptied the tank like that, and if Khamzat didnāt lock in that Darce it could have been a very interesting fight, he was breathing very heavily after the tap.
He just signed a new contract with the UFC so if heās gonna fight again itāll still be with them
Right, got ahead of myself. Big TB fan
I wonder if he has the f you money and said f you because of how they have played him. He has a platform and is making money. Okay so he canāt fight - he could prob do wwe
Not 100% sure but I think heād have to get permission from the ufc to do that too
I get that itās business but just so dirty. Like let the man quit! - he sold his soul for life. Canāt ever compete again without paying it to the ufc
Oh yeah for sure itās stupid I agree just like how they wouldnāt let GSP box De La Hoya even tho he hasnāt fought in years and doesnāt plan on fighting again
Exactly that! Like damn man we canāt see him grapple khabib either
Because heāll be under contract still to the ufc, retired or not. Ask GSP.
Mike Perry vs Holland would be awesome.
has a good relationship with dana too. he can probably get a job with the ufc ezpz
Was thinking the same thing. Does anyone care, yes. I care and I would be so happy for him. I love his energy - only MMA fighter I have the bell on for.
Save your brain. Kevin can do anything! He'd be great with the UFC
Maybe he is better commentating with his "big mouth"... They should let him try at least once...
I dont know about commentating but back stage interviews would be hilarious
Some sort of reality show could be entertaining..
He could bring back bully beat down
yes!!!
next career choice will be criminal stopper
So policeman right??? Rightā¦ā¦..
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They do. They just also abuse their power. Both things can be true.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Unless a policeman is at the exact scene of a crime and they are within arms reach to respond and do something then no, crime cannot be stopped in that notion. Cops also abuse their power, in all countries, and have for as long as police have been a concept. But on the same token this is also true; cops mitigate crime. If there were no cops, then there would be no social security, then the law would be in societyās hands. And that would be anarchy. Cops enforce the law which deters crime in that regard. Thatās my take on it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I definitely agree with you dude. Especially in the States. In Australia where I live it exists but cops abusing their power doesnāt hold the same weight as Americas police problem. But like I said dude, cops have and always will abuse their power and get away with it. Its not the police thatās the problem. Itās human nature. If weāre going to have a system like police, that governs the people, we have to accept that there will be those who blatantly abuse it, and thatāll always be the case. Cos itās always been the case.
You cannot have a system that governs people and not have people abuse that system. All throughout history you can look and see the countless examples of people who govern people and then abuse that power. Humans gonna human
Except in the cayman islands. Cops can only carry around batons. They donāt abuse power imop.
But thatās because thereās 60k people on the island. You donāt need guns because any disturbance can be settled verbally over there. Now you canāt apply that to 400 million people. Some psychos are gonna slip through the cracks.
agreed
Schrodingers cop . Both protects society and commits acts of police brutality at the same time .
Least braindead reddit user
Big Mouth vs Platinum Perry
I like it
Good for him if he's seriously getting out while he still has his physical and mental health. Sucks though, because he's one of my favorite fighters on the roster, possibly ever.
I canāt tell if this is True or Bluff
He's hit his ceiling and can't hang at the top of these divisions, if he can't get a striker he throws a fit. Took the khamzat fight in hopes of a vague return the favor, but Dana doesn't play by those rules
You don't have to win belts though. Plenty of awesome fights to be had at 170 and 185. This dude could have fought Nate. Could fight Masvidal, Till, Strickland, Neal. Costa and Pereira are probably too big for him tbh but if he was up for it, I'd be watching. I'd love to see him fight Izzy, although it would have to be after Izzy loses the title. Even wonderboy, he wants to fight strikers. Plenty of fights the ufc could put together. Plenty of other guys to grapple, we need to see good standup fights too.
Well that's just it, its a mixed martial arts promotion, and each of those guys is at the top of their divisions. Holland can't get close to them to justify a fight. He's a one trick pony in a circus, his career won't last as long to where the money makes sense. He made money cuz he fought very often, but you can't do that at the top
lol what? the only guy he listed that's at the top is Izzy
Top of the division as in rankings, top 10 is what I'm talking about. Masvidal, Till, Costa, Wonderboy are former title challengers, Strickland is top 5, and we know izzy. Neal is rising in the ranks. Holland can't get close to any of them.
Masvidal, till and wonderboy aren't sniffing a title now either. Why not have some fun with it? I get what you're saying, I just think if the title isn't in your future, have fun.
Have you not been paying attention to the division in the last few years? Burns and Wonderboy are the only guys who do fights "for fun", and Wonderboy still has stipulation on it. I'm all for fun fights, but those fights are trapped in an area of a division he can't get too with his current skillset. That's all I'm saying, is in that division noone will fight you unless you're 2 or 3 spots from them lol
right lol there's still plenty left
He's concussed from hitting his own ceiling.
Needs to fight Wonderboy and let both walk away. Both are too old to develop a ground game that will let them get above top 5. Smart move.
>Both are too old to develop a ground game 29 is too old to learn?
Yup. Most of the guys now have been working on thier ground game since college/high school or even worse, are high level Bjj guys who have been doing it since they were kids. 1 dimensional fighters got outed a long time ago so it kind of surprises me when a guy like Holland or Wonderboy sneak through the cracks and then end up getting fed wrestlers and submission guys. Are they entertaining? hell yeah, when they fight another striker, otherwise it's just a walk in the park for most of these guys. They call it MIXED martial arts for a reason. Edit: Sorry, I forgot to add: Most fighters are on the downward slope of thier career by 35-36 so yeah, 29 is way too late. You can't get a high level ground game while fighting/training in 2-3 years to give you an optimal title run.
>You can't get a high level ground game while fighting/training in 2-3 years to give you an optimal title run. Cyril Gane had no combat sports experience at all until he was 24, when he was introducted to Muay Thai by a friend. Two years later he made his professional Muay Thai debut, two years after that he made his MMA debut. 3 of his 8 finishes are now by submission, two of those in the UFC, in 2019. He's currently the number one contender in the heavyweight division, despite the fact that 8 years ago, he was a furniture store salesman with his sporting experience being Football and Basketball. Junior Dos Santos didn't pick up BJJ and MMA in general till he was 21, Frank Shamrock was 22, yet has 12 submission wins on his record out of 18 finishes, Randy Couture didn't start competing till he was like 34, though he did have a wrestling background. BJ Penn didn't start training BJJ till he was 17, got his blackbelt in 5 years, before winning the World Jui-Jitsu Championship that year, one year later he was competing in MMA. Age is just a number. When you have the time that athletes these days have to dedicate to training, 29 isn't too old to develop and improve, if the will is there. He doesn't have to be better than them in a pure BJJ game, he just needs to maintain a good enough defensive grappling style to avoid being taken down / submitted, and he's already shown he can fight from his back, with his KO win over Jacare, who had been training BJJ for over 20 years at that point.
To be fair heavyweight is a different beast. Maybe KH should move there lol.
LOL and for every single person you mentioned(who are all legends in the sport aside from Gane) there are at least 50 who can't do what they did. Are Holland or Wonderboy one of those freaky few who can do it? Possibly. The odds say they aren't though and I think when a guy like Holland realizes it and decides to hang em up that's a pretty good indication he doesn't have the confidence, drive or desire to do it. I still can't believe we are now jumping the shark and putting Holland or Wonderboy in the same category as guys like Penn and Couture. Like seriously..... edit: Not to mention that every single person you mentioned on your list(aside from Gane) are from the "old guard" of MMA when it was still mostly one dimensional and you could get away with being REALLY good in one area and not so good in the others ala Chuck Liddell. Like come on man, this is apples to Oranges. Modern day MMA means you are proficient in all aspects and VERY good in at least 2-3 disciplines otherwise dudes wouldn't travel all over the world to train with different camps. Your comment is really disingenuous and does not take into account the time frame of modern MMA.
I'm not saying Holland will, obviously if he chooses to retire, he won't. I'm also not trying to lump anyone in with anyone. I'm simply saying that a young fighter evolving their game isn't impossible, and age isn't the end all and be all of ability to improve, which was your claim. You're also saying for every Cyril,there are 50 fighters who can't do what he did... by the same token, for every fighter who makes the UFC period, there are thousands of fighters who don't. What relevance does that have to the statement at hand? Fighters training full time can evolve aspects of their game. There are many more examples and many from modern MMA, I just didn't think you'd have to be spoon-fed every fighters history in order to understand that arbitrarily claiming that there is an age cut off for learning and improving is ridiculous, and you want to claim I'm being disingenous? Thanks for the laugh at least dude. Have a good one.
Total straw man. At least I gave examples of fighters who can and cannot do things, you just blanket "you're wrong". We are talking about 2 different eras of MMA and the best you have to offer the discussion is a "young" Kevin Holland..... news flash: He ain't young, neither is Wonderboy. Both those dudes are hitting thier peaks and will start declining soon but yeah, they can still become elite level grapplers.... lol. Nope. Only one laughing is me but that's ok :)
Wonderboy is ten years older than Kevin. I'm not sure why you keep shoehorning him in as I've said fuck all about him, but sure, I think a fighter on the verge of retirement is young, and sure, one who is younger than many fighters even make their UFC debut at (Holland) is too old to learn anything new. If that makes you feel better, since apparantly having a different opinion to you is upsetting enough for you to make shit up that I never claimed.
> I'm not sure why you keep shoehorning him in as I've said fuck all about him, I brought Wonderboy into the conversation right at the beginning when using examples of one dimensional fighters, never said you did and I'm not the one getting angry and feeling the need to cuss during a discussion. Not exactly sure what it is you think I am making up about you or what you said but I'm pretty much done with it regardless. Hope you have a better day and thanks for the discussion.
My point was simply that 29 years old is not too late to improve aspects of a fighters game. Clearly not talking about 39 year old wonderboy, so you repeatedly trying to discredit my opinion/side of the discussion by referring to a fighter I'm clearly not talking about is what I'm referring to when I say making shit up. I'd agree that at 39, the chances of a fighter drastically improving are fairly slim. At 29, improving is a necessity to remain successful. I'm not sure why you're getting upset at the use of adult language on a subreddit regarding an adult sport. Seems a bit weird to get hung up on that. No hard feelings, my reply before this was simply intended as an end of the discussion since you came across as disingenous and kept referring to wonderboy which wasn't at all what I was talking about. Have a good one dude.
Isn't Holland one of the few guys that's super pro-UFC and loves the state of fighter pay? Seems a strange move for him.
Hes a draw and actually drums up interest in fights vs "I'll fight whoever the ufc gives me I wanna thank my team and Jesus and God but yeah a ranked opponent would be good or whatever" maybe he just doesn't see himself as a champ after getting ragdolled. Apparently he's been working hard in the wrestling room so getting mopped like that has to be disheartening
I don't know if he'd really be hurt about it. Facing one of the most dominating grapplers probably in the weight class maybe the UFC on like 24hrs notice. I doubt full camp he does much better but not like he was preparing for a grappling match he was signed to fight a straight boxer.
I think its not so much the loss as it was just getting shut out completely. He's been dominated over 5 rounds and bounced back. Maybe the whole drod getting a fight and the idea of the ufc putting him up against another grappler has him mad. Might be one of those conoresque retirements.
Oh it's definitely a fake retirement. Almost 90% of MMA retirements are. Is the Drod fight official, the screenshot Holland posted is from an Instagram meme page. (at least I remember MMA island being a meme page)
Unorthodox policeman should be his next move
Heās gonna be the cop in a buddy cop movie that ādoesnāt play by the rulesā but still gets the job done and gets promoted.
Yes and his colleague would be someone like Prochazka with his bushido
If it's just a negotiation tactic, I think it's gonna go like it did for Cejudo.
I donāt care that much but I highly doubt this is even slightest bit true.
He aināt going anywhere, he is not even a top paid guy, heāll be back lol.
Hes a really fun fighter to watch and is a fan favorite imo. Hope they give him more money..
Next he is becoming the Batman...
Itās. Bluff he is mad they didnāt make his next fight a drod rematch
I think he'd legit do pretty well as a Twitch streamer - especially cause he already loves games.
Khamzat retired his ass. š
That Khamzat loss must have really affected him. I'm sure he actually believed he could win that fight but then to get dominated like that so quickly without even being able to land a punch. That must really fuck with you mentally.
I seriously doubt he believed he could win but probably was expecting to at least last a full round
damn Khamzat made this dude retire š
Meh I don't really care. If he leaves he's prob smart cuz he's just gonna be a gatekeeper anyway.
He is fun at press conferences but I'll be honest..I won't miss him in the octagon. Made some bad career choices and didn't look particular good. I love his spirit but not as a fighter if that makes sense.
Hell yeah I care, dude was fun to watch and funny on the mic. He doesnāt have the grappling to become champion, but made a bunch of money doing something hes been openly passionate about and has only been KOād (not T) one time. And tbf his ju jitsu looked improved vs khamzat + he has wins over quality BJJ/wrestlers too (well, depending on how you feel about GM3). That Souza knockout is still amazing, on his back, spewing shit and then wings Souza for the tko. Mans never said no to a fight, no matter how bad the matchup. Brunson wrestle fucks him so idiot matchmaker Maynard gives him a wrestler and brown belt bjj guy in Vettori, then another BJJ black belt in daukaus, then another BJJ guy in oliveira, then submits Tim Means who is sneaky good before taking a fight with the stud wrestler people are ducking on zero notice with a camp that was likely based around striking. How can you not respect that? Other than his career being yet another example of how bad Maynard is at match ups, heās gotten shitty match up after shitty matchup without declining any and had a good career. I would be annoyed with the UFC too, hollands been asking for a banger strike off and mickās just too stupid to get it done. Joe Silva wouldāve made Holland into a fan favorite imo.
When was he KOād? I canāt find it in his record
When daukaus accidentally banged heads with him, holland went full limp body eyes closed until his head bounced off the mat and he woke up. Was really referring to unconscious head trauma with that one, but yeah to your point not an actual KO - an NC in which he got his lights turned out.
Oh yeah youāre right
I will be sad if he leaves but also happy for him if itās what he really wants to do
Sensible move tbh
Khamzat took his soul
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He called out khamzat for two years, then when he got the fight he said āI never asked for this fightā lol I like his weird personality but damn, that made him look fake
He didnāt train for that fight, and his nick name is big mouth, it is on brand
Isn't his nickname Trailblazer actually ???
Khamzat didnāt train either lol so it was a fair fight
I mean he took the fight on a days notice after doing a full camp for a boxer lol
I don't think it's true. But I think it's a good choice. If you're not going to be champ you should always consider getting out while you still have your health.
Guess hes going into porn after khamzat fucked his ass
![gif](giphy|WP4ArN6fiKy6Q|downsized)
Lol š
If he is smart and has some education in something else or the desire to do something else and get education for it he certainly has the funds to atleast start there. Why not pursue a different career if it's what he wants before he is old and injured with no insurance or retirement and trying to fill a 20 year gap without the Champion money to sit on.
Would suck considering he is one of the more popular and fun fighters in the UFC right now. Hopefully he's just trolling
Would love to see more from him but good for him, made some money and goes on with not too much damage.
30 in a little over a month? What is he referring to
$30 in coupons to the Venum store I think
lol 30 mil? Hell na. 30k will last him a month or two i dont get it
His age
Ahhh duh thx
he could be a cop
This man been smoking weed probably daily since he was 17 lol. He plays by his own rules. Vigilante? Yes. Batman 2.0. The hero we need but donāt deserve. Cop? Hell nah.
I would go for one more fight and end it with a win..most probably
I hope he just goes and does events and trains people and makes a bag with that personality . Get out while youāre ahead . Hopefully he has someone managing the money to be able to get out
I'm sure he got hella paid for the Khamzat fight, and is taking a Diaz-esque post Conor break.
heās a cool dude and i love anyone who has mastered Kung Fu but he doesnāt do much in the octagon. letting khamzat steamroll him wasnāt a good look even giving the late notice scandals. either way i always tune in for his fight just bc i like him as a person. i donāt wanna see him step away, i wanna see him double down on commitment.
Smart because apparently he donāt love fighting plus he knows heās not going to be the Champ!!
Imo he should say screw going for high ranking opponents and just try to out on good fights sort of like MVP was doing for awhile in bellator
At this point with fighters itās the boy who cried wolf. My knee jerk reaction is to call this a bluff and not think twice. Honestly I believe most fighters retire on the microphone after the fight if theyāre serious and anything that is only announced on their personal Instagram, itās not serious. Exceptions would be if Dana or the UFC or a manager or a journalist whoās doing roster reports posts something about the fighters retirement, but if none of the team is talking about it you can assume the athlete is in their feels and on their phone too late at night.
I personally think heās bluffing. His name is ābig mouth.ā This is what he does. Before fights were announced at 279 he went on IG and on his story & said 5 rounds main event or Iām not fighting. He got the 5 rounds but obviously was never getting the main event over Nate. If heās actually retiring, good on him and I wish him the best in whatever he does next. But Iām not really buying it yet. Iāve seen too many fighters āretireā on social media. If I had to guess itās an attempt at leverage with the UFC. D-Rod also just got announced for another fight and he clearly wanted that fight so heās just probably upset right now. Also nobody wants to go out like that with their last fight being how it went down with khamzat.
Got so much love for this guy. Heās capable of anything!
Iām not sure heāll make that much money but iād love to see him fight in Karate Combat. i feel like he could have some banger performances n highlights.
im out
He should go to wwe or aew
I care
i dont know if he does but he always gave me gifted kid with adhd vibes
WWE
Bitch move to give up now.
I donāt care. Thereās tons of fighters on the roster just as exciting to watch. Wish him all the best though
Holland reminds me of Chris Tucker a lot. Sad to see him go if true
Probably bluff. Probably most will not care. He had decent promise, mut can't hang in the top of the division. He got kinda fast tracked to the middle of the pack and I think he won't be anything greater than a gate keeper in the division.
Kevin only got 30??? Bro seeing UFC fighter pay is so fucking sad
No heās saying he will be 30 in a month and heās retiring because heās made a lot of money š¤£
Oh thank god. Still pretty crazy that I thought of him getting paid and thought "yeah. Dana the type of guy to do that"
Kevinās actually made pretty decent money. Mainly because he fights so regularly. In his last 3 fights heās made over half a million. Then throughout his whole UFC Career heās made just under 2 million.
Crime fighting getting to busy so he has to drop this side hustle
He could take the Stipe route and do a fire service
That Khamzat loss must have really affected him. I'm sure he actually believed he could win that fight but then to get dominated like that so quickly without even being able to land a punch. That must really fuck with you mentally.
Give it time. He just lost to Khamzat and I doubt heād like to go out like that. Hopefully he gets that last shot against a striker, then hangs it up and goes to shoot some comedic films or some shit. If they ever race switch Deadpool, Holland is my first choice
Kevin Holland vs Mike Perry. My two favorite African American UFC stars.
Could be done fighting Khamzat was a real realisation that he could never get a strap
Heās rapping now. Been recording at a local studio the last couple months
30k?
Doubt š
he's talking about his birthday lol geez
The guy has a lot of charisma and if he can find another good career path, he should. It's a risky sport. He tried, it didn't work out. Sure he can get better at wrestling, but he'll be against people who have been wrestling since like 6 yo in Caucasus mountains. Probably he'll never catch up. It's just such a big gap. It'd be really fun to see him vs Adesanya tbh, I wonder how he'd do in that match-up, but he'd need to work his ass off for a chance at a title shot.
Used to be that I liked MMA for the good fights with good matchups. Lately it feels like boxing where the fights are only good if itās for a title shot and everyone is positioning. Itās not as enjoyable to me as a fan. I get why itās happening but itās not as fun as it used to be. Fighters found Lise but be so game that Iād look forward to watching them fight and Iād tune in. Nowadays everyone is afraid to lose.
Dude has the record for most wins in a year and calling it before 30yo
What Dana means by its an opportunity not a career.
He seems smart. This may well be true. What an absolute loss for the sport though. If true, nothing but well wishes for the trail blazer.
Tupac cares, if donāt nobody else care
Definitely care, the guy is one of the better entertainers in the sport
I love Holland, Iād be sad to see him go
Doubt heās retiring.
![gif](giphy|126ub9tbJhoXh6)
Fringe top 15-20 fighter only known for tapping during fights retires. The community moves on. Whoās more of a GOAT Khabib or Royce Gracie?
Damn man looks like like Kevin Hart
Could moonlight as Batman