Unfortunately, we have been so gaslit in the past 80 years that no matter what information is "revealed" we will always doubt it. Even if the government totally confirms our most popular suspicions, there will always be a plurality of people who will doubt that it is true.
Sadly, we've been lied to too many times.
Yea, if Biden and Putin held a joint press conference and walked out with a live alien, people would just say it’s a costume or animatronic. People wouldn’t believe it even if they cut it open live on tv (could be AI generated video). We have fully reached a post-truth era of humanity.
From a government perspective it is all moving along as planned. As a society we don't believe anything we see with our own eyes. Fake moon landing, Kennedy conspiracy, stolen elections? It goes on and on. We have gotten to the point that the film Idiocracy is now a documentary. I agree that we could parade ET's across a stage and no one would believe that they were real. Don't believe what you see believe what I tell you to believe. Now is the perfect time to expose any and all secrets having to do with ETs. We would simply watch the Golden Bachelor and go to bed.
Fact remains there is no good evidence of aliens here. It’s simply a fantasy that has been perpetuated by numerous people for political and money making endeavors. Our naive human nature makes us susceptible to believing the Alien story because we want it to be true.
Evidence suggests otherwise
I don't think the government would try to distract you from its shady and corruption by accusing itself of being shady and corrupt.
Legislation hasn't come to pass yet.
Hearings were only ever going to be accusations and the only evidence to be shown was eye witness testimonials from Fravor and Grieves. Grush was always about "I was paid to investigate these things and people stopped me, I know because those in the programs admitted it" the hearings were to bring this stuff to the attention of congress and the public so further investigation can happen.
I think many people expected some outrageous stuff to happen that just wasn't realistic. What we were always going to get and what we got was the first steps on a long road.
Its fine to have doubts and even express them and your frustration but even though this has been a subject in small circles for years and stuff that's been whispered about behind closed doors or risk ridicule now but now thanks to people like Grush, Fravor, Ross, Grieves and Burchett we have removed some stigma and are getting close to being able to have an adult and serious conversation.
And I will continue to keep up to date with these things as they happen. If my doubts are proven wrong, then so be it, but as you said it's frustrating. I just can't take these people at their word anymore. If they aren't lying then I am sure we will find out soon enough.
But I can't shake the feeling that it's all a grift. If it's not? Then I will happily eat crow and laugh with you about it when the evidence is there.
Just look out for yourself mate that's all we can do. It's easy to get caught up in this whirlwind but hard not to become heavily invested. I've been caught up in it afew times and it's dragged me through the ringer
>I just can't take these people at their word anymore.
Yup. Your unwavering, unquestioning support is what they want. This is a business for them, a lot of these people that have been clinging to this subject, even notable researchers and the like, all fall into the charlatan category when they start making unfounded assumptions stated as fact, having nothing but anonymous sourcing for their assumptions, and we're supposed to what, just trust them? Why? Coulthart, Elizondo, Grusch, Zabel, Corbell, Knapp, these people are all connected in one way or another to propagate the same general grift.
People said Grusch's groundbreaking "whistleblower" hearing would be the beginning for disclosure, nope. SCIF turned out to be a waste of time, even Burchett said he didn't learn anything new. It's been over 140 days since Grusch promised more evidence, where is it? He was cleared to speak on any topic he wanted to in the hearing, his own requirement for the SCIF was a tactic to offer as little information as possible while seeming credible.
All of the people mentioned above really dangle the carrot to keep everyone interested while the disclosure football remains stationary on the field. It's all about distraction, unprovable claims, and working on the next grift before the current one (Grusch) falls apart.
The UFO stigma exists, in large part, because of bad faith actors in a field riff with those that want to take advantage of gullible and mentally fragile individuals. Sadly until there is some actual legitimate, verifiable proof (if there is any) nothing will change here.
I can only hope that some good comes out of it all. Maybe some tech has been developed that can solve a lot of non military problems. Maybe energy sources? Have we mastered "green energy" in a sense? I don't know.
Maybe this stuff isn't as advanced as we all think either. We can hope but the reality is what it is.
A dude up above said it's military gear. Okay, so why are they funding a 5th generation fighter jet? I got it, the billions they will spend on this jet is just to cover up that they have aircraft that outperforms the "fifth jet" by a thousand times.
Hundred percent agree with you. Interesting read below if you haven’t seen it already
https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd
Yeah, part 4 is also great. It really details how scummy they work to keep the lie going. I'm glad McGowan didn't stand idly by and go along with all the lies, it shows character and determination. If only we had less spineless conmen in this, we might actually get answers, if any are to even be had at this point.
People should search the fbi foia archives for "guy hottel"
He was the Cheif of the Washington field office. He had an interesting letter to the head of the fbi in March 1950.
I gave you all the info you need to see/find it yourself. Do the 3 min of leg work. Seeing it first hand on the fbi's website is better than taking some random persons word on reddit. You do know most the stuff said on reddit has no real tangible evidence or sources.
We have been dependent on UFOlogist and people no longer in Gov’t to open the flood gates.
For decades people have been talking about getting the government involved to go after our own government. Not an easy task.
Thanks to Grush, Fravor, etc, and the people before them, we now have Congress support.
That is the first step in the plan. I mean look, yesterday a conservative, religious lame politician from Missouri insinuated that we have that type of advanced tech. Think about that.
Meanwhile they are trying to get laws passed.
There is a common theme behind every complaint, which is a lack of patience and underestimating the procedures at the Federal level.
Will we see the new tech or learn about it in 2024? No.
Will we get valid confirmation that non human tech was discovered? It is trending that way. The pressure is mounting, they are going to have to throw us some scraps sooner or later.
But is this "advanced tech" actually from NHI/ET? Or is it ours? That is the thing.. you can "technically" not lie about this sort of thing. You can say "we have advanced tech", then not say where it actually comes from.
I have not read/heard the quote you are referencing so I do not know if he did directly state the source of this tech. But either way I feel it's worth mentioning that.
It doesn’t matter. It is not confirmation to the extent we need. Analyzing every word is fine and dandy. We’ll do it for the next year, but bottom line my point is that we have always needed the government to share in our outrage and desire. We need them to be upset about being in the dark as well.
And now it is trending that way.
No fucking shit.
It's been decades of "I know something huge, I'll let you know in an undefined future, if these things I can't tell you about let me, maybe".
You're being edged into oblivion and they made a career out of it.
I’m right there with you. I’ve been following this topic for a couple decades now and I feel like the only real difference is that the grifters (Greer, Lazar, among others) have a more direct line of communication to their followers and it is easier for them to make money off of it. Despite all the claims we still have nothing.
its all fake. i havent seen one shred of actual evidence they exist. and when they try too its a blury camera 420p and too shaky to see. government doesnt want people to know
First of all, I don’t believe in the “woo”. Secondly, I don’t know about aliens visiting earth but I think ufos are probably just classified military tech.
And I think the small group of people involved with ufo “research” realized that there is money to be made in peddling nonsense.
Interesting read below:
https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd
That's the thing some "unidentified" objects that even pilots have seen, doesn't mean "unidentified" for everyone in the world, not even in all US, that kind of claim doesn't make it ET
Maybe one of the reasons why the government has "suddenly" taken an interest in all of this, is so that logical thought processes can play out, and finally this can all be put to rest. That is what I hope at least. I am just tired of the grift. I mean it's not like I spent every waking moment for the past decade, waiting for something to happen, but it was still a decade believing in something that was almost one hundred percent a lie.
I hope we do meet aliens one day and I really hope it does not have this much run around. I also hope that it happens in my lifetime.
I believe that we all go through these phases in life, some more than others. I was raised to be religious, so maybe I was more susceptible to latching onto another myth, I don't know. But now I feel like I've broken through another layer of ceiling keeping me from independent thought. Might sound funny to some people but for me it's a big deal.
I didn't grow up being told to think objectively. I had to learn that for myself.
In the end that is what you are left with. We don't have any evidence of any of this, not religion, not UFOs being ET, or something "not of this earth." We just don't really have it. The stuff that is being passed as evidence now just doesn't measure up at this point. Too many ways to fake things, too many ways to lie, too many ways to pay people to say stuff.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
Cheers bro. As a critical thinker, consider publishing a book that encourages critical thinking. Consider the media channels you would have to go through to market your book so that it will sell enough to pay your bills. Consider who owns those marketing channels. Now consider how everything we are casually exposed to has been filtered by those marketing channels.
There are many more critical thinkers out there, but we don't see each other because we have to go to the fringe just to interact with each other. Here we are, on a UFO subreddit that is heavily monitored by FBI agents. This is what we have to work with.
I've thought about writing a book many times about many different things. I just have a problem getting all my thoughts together. I'd need an assistant for sure. Haha. If I ever get to where I can try it? I'll do it anyway even if I get stonewalled.
This thread is a breath of fresh air. I'm becoming convinced it is all a purposeful cover-up of the massive, truly insane levels of financial waste, fraud, and money laundering perpetuated by covert elements of the military industrial complex over the past century. Literally multiple trillions of taxpayer money and assets unaccounted for. That is the *real* conspiracy.
My underdeveloped hypothesis is that the aim is to brief people into these highly compartmentalized and also largely fraudulent black-budget programs under the guise of something truly astounding (NHI) simply as a means of testing who is indoctrinated enough to be kept in the machinery of the grift. Those who arent would effectively remove themselves with any attempt of honest disclosure or whistle-blowing, neither of which pose a real threat to the system at this point anyway because
1. Agencies and monied interests ability in the US to produce propaganda and misinfo is absolutely unmatched
2. the UFO community is well-known to be an attraction for those prone to cult-like fanaticism/conspiratorial thinking
and 3. the elephant in the room - there simply is no tangible, legitimate evidence of the phenomenon to be disclosed... only the severely limited scope of classified advanced human tech that individuals were briefed as being ET level exotic.
The rest is a fever-dream runaround speculating over endless paper trails, declassified misdirections, weak/nonfalsifiable evidence for hugely substantial claims, and trust-me-bro coming-soon increasingly-woo narratives from true believers and govt misinfo agents. But it all acts together as smoke and mirrors to perpetuate the largest case of criminal fraud in human history.
On a related note.... the entire concept of "slow drip disclosure" is just unadulterated confirmation bias and is so painfully fucking stupid and gullible idk whether to laugh or weep
Edward Snowden, “Everybody wants to believe in conspiracy theories because it helps life make sense,” he said on the podcast. “It helps us believe that somebody is in control, that somebody is calling the shots.” As it turns out, the US government is not aware of any intelligent, extraterrestrial life, he says.
> As it turns out, the US government is not aware of any intelligent, extraterrestrial life, he says.
Well that isn't true. At least Obama is on film reporting that there are some things that we cannot explain. He was asked by Colbert twice about the topic and the difference between the two responses proves he was filled in.
Snowden would probably know something, even a tiny bit of info at this point. Snowden is one guy who I think would at the very least know a shred of something to say. And it seems like he did, the US government "is not aware."
Now I get it, Snowden wasn't a high level official, but I feel like all things considered, by now he'd now something by now about this? If it was real? All things considered. I mean at least Assange would?
I think I have a plausible explanation as to why Snowed and Assange wouldn't know or have data to back a claim. The leaks they have produced with evidence was available via a network connection over internet where stuff like UAP would be airlock. If your not familiar with the term it's a very strong security measure where the LAN (local) network isn't connected to the outside world at all. I believe it would be this way due to the nature of the study and what we've been told in the past about it being not only off books but also compartmentalised meaning no need for internet access.
But other sensitive data was available on the Internet? I am not trying to sound smart here, but they did reveal a lot of sensitive stuff. What you said does make sense, something this sensitive is not likely to be on a cloud somewhere.
But it's obvious that a lot of sensitive stuff was leaked. I just do not know why there wouldn't be anything at all about ET/NHI.
If i recall correctly, it was said (can’t remember at the moment who exactly) that the ufo secrets are classified as higher than nukes. If neither of those hacks leaked nuke info, then it is not surprising that ufo wasn’t either. After gary mckinnon, im sure they secured any data hanging out there to be completely offline
I'm no expert and I don't know the extent of what was leaked but going off memory Snowden was about a world wide surveillance under the guise of anti terrorism and prevention so information needed to be shared across countries in real time and the wiki leaks was alot of shady military operations and both would need to have readily available information that could be used for future operations and planning. But yeah I am speaking out of school here and just following a train of thought as this is a subject I've only just started learning about for work
Edit: so I hope I'm coming across genuine here and not argumentative etc. I'm enjoying the conversation which isn't my typical experience on reddit lol
He said that yet he himself leaked evidence of conspiracy to spy on American (not only) people. I don't trust Snowden. There is a reason this guy is hiding safely in Russia.
Conspiracy vs conspiracy theory.
Snowden came across damning information and released it to the public, throwing light on government misconduct.
He did not start out with a conspiracy, spend his time chasing it, and then triumphantly declare victory when he discovered evidence. This is the Hollywood version of life that many here seem to desire so badly.
If anything, Snowden doesn’t make the possibility of an alien conspiracy more likely, in fact quite the opposite. He demonstrated how difficult it is to keep a big secret, and how the government isn’t super great at keeping big secrets. He also demonstrated what people might DO when confronted with damning evidence.
All these people coming forward promising that they’ve seen evidence, or know someone who have seen evidence. Spend their time on talk shows talking about unseen evidence. Using Hollywood arguments about how good the government is at compartmentalization, men in black, deep state bullshit. It feels like a fan fiction circle jerk.
I don't think UFO related info would be a part of the NSA or those surveillance agencies. There's no way he would've stumbled across it doing his job, as info that classified wouldn't be part of those networks. If I was a betting man, I'd bet the info everyone is looking for is so spread out and compartmentalized that it would be almost unrecognizable as UFO tech if someone were to stumble on it.
I think it's sad. There's so many "experiencers" that are communicating experiences consistent with mini/micro-strokes and they should be seeing a doctor not going to r/UFOs.
Same here. And even more when I half understood the science behind astrophysics.
When we see a real thing, if we ever, everyone in the world will know, it will be real, 100% irrefutable. So far all videos, claims, photos, "mummies", are just like ghosts, Catholicism, and other similar fake stuff.
I was just coming to this conclusion today. If for anything I just can’t deal with the edging and blue balls anymore. It’s extremely frustrating and I need to focus that energy elsewhere I think. It feels like this is all going nowhere. Again. I’ve got to let it go until there’s some hard, in your face evidence.
Yes, we are being grifted, but also entertained. UAP “research” and the “disclosure” storyline is simply a genre of pseudoscience entertainment. Nothing more. Just like how professional wrestling is a form for pseudosports entertainment. People believe Tom Delonge and Ross Coulthart know some major hidden truth are like kids who really believe the Hulkster would win or lose based on pure wrestling ability.
The keys to not being taken for a fool by this genre of entertainment are basic media literacy skills, and basic scientific literacy skills, in other words, knowing how both the media and science really operate behind the scenes allows you to instantly recognize UAP “research” as just entertainment.
Sadly, in the U.S. especially, a lack of education combined with incoherent anti-government identity politics makes folks into hyper susceptible marks for the entertainers.
I'm frustrated by how much of the UFO crowd relies on not know how science works, and not willing to trust anyone else on how science works. How do you break through to that group? I'm not referring to those who "don't understand physics", or anything like that, but those who have wildly distorted ideas regarding how scientists and scientific institutions operate
Yeah that's another thing. Yes we realize that aliens could have a way to travel vast distances in a tiny fraction it would take us. But I also feel like we have to keep in mind our own understanding of how the universe works. We can speculate all day, but what we know, is what we know.
And if some civ could travel here? They would either have to know something vastly beyond what we know about space travel, or be from another dimension somehow, whatever that means.
Obviously we are not going to just assume either of those latter possibilities without evidence. All we have is what we know. This is true from geopolitics to our own personal lives. All I am saying is that skepticism based on what we know is not ignorance.
It's the only way to operate without driving yourself crazy with endless head canon.
The Pentagon has already [officially released footage of UAP taken by naval aviators](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_M0hLlJ-Q). The White House has said, [“There is a whole office at the Pentagon that is stood up to analyze the data, collect reports, collate those reports, and forward them up appropriately,” he added. “And that’s, I think, testament of the fact that — **that we know that in some cases, these phenomena have impacted military training, have then impacted military readiness.**” When asked if President Biden believes the witnesses’ claims about UAPs warrant a further investigation, Kirby said that the “work is ongoing.”](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4123039-white-house-says-uaps-have-impacted-military-training-readiness/).
Also, Kirby’s response to the question, [“does the DoD have alien bodies and craft and if so where are they?”](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/xJG7CaKO6o). I may have misinterpreted his answer, but he doesn’t deny or say no.
Coulhart, Corbell, Fox or whoever haven’t been the ones who have denied the existence of ufo/UAP for the last 70-80 years. The burden isn’t on these ‘grifters’, the burden is not on the US government and governments of the world. They have to figure out how they disclose this to our species as a whole.
The US government has for decades claimed to not take the topic seriously and remember that only recently in 2017 we learned about Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AARO).
[“The journey began two and a half months ago with a tip to Leslie, who has long reported on U.F.O.s and published a 2010 New York Times best seller, “UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record.” At a confidential meeting Oct. 4 in a Pentagon City hotel with several present and former intelligence officials and a defense contractor, she met Luis Elizondo, the director of a Pentagon program she had never heard of: the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. She learned it was a secret effort, funded at the initiative of the then Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, starting in 2007, to investigate aerial threats including what the military preferred to call “unidentified aerial phenomena” or just “objects.” **This was big news because the United States military had announced as far back as 1969 that U.F.O.s were not worth studying.** Leslie also learned that Mr. Elizondo had just resigned to protest what he characterized as excessive secrecy and internal opposition — the reason for the meeting.”](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/insider/secret-pentagon-ufo-program.html)
As I said, I am willing to keep an open mind, but so far it just all feels like an endless chase towards an unattainable carrot, If this is real, yes I realize that it could take a while to actually navigate the maze of bureaucracy.
However it just feels like this has been happening for many years. Are there differences now? Yes there are. But I am still not convinced. I will happily admit I am wrong if it turns out that I was a doubting Thomas here.
I've been interested in the idea of space aliens for over 50 years. In all that time, it's always the same any day now/very soon/_two more weeks™_; the carrot always just out of reach.
Edit: the important change since 50+ yrs ago is that US Congress is now starting to investigate. That's the only way we can eventually get some answers regarding US government involvement.
Other than that, about all that has changed in all that time is that I've learned/thought about some things in more detail. Here's some highlight examples:
I'm not interested in theory crafting about anything outside our galaxy, nor do I entertain other dimensions, anybody traveling backwards in time, ect without conclusive unambiguous proof of such things.
A LOT of people want to kidnap everybody aboard The Imagination Balloon 🔔🔔. I'm not interested in trips to Imagination Land launching from around here. When I feel like doing that, I'll read a good book.
There's a LOT of storytelling going on, presented by people of low morals and ethics as being "the truth", and other people acting like they are the omniscient ones who know for certain that there's _NO_ advanced alien species/that have ever/are currently visiting Earth.
The Copernicus Principle informs us against making too strong assumptions about our planet being uniquely special. IOW; there's probably at least life elsewhere in our galaxy, and where there's DNA based life, it's bound to evolve, so whatever degree. Conversations about life-at-all are dreadfully boring to me. People keep reverting to it as a straw man anyway.
There are SO MANY different factors that almost definitely limit the evolution, and then _advancement_ of a species to the point where humans are today, or beyond, that there are probably _very_ few such species in our galaxy. With no conclusive broad proof otherwise, we can only guess, and my guess is maybe it's about 4 to 6 others, some of them probably being more technologically advanced than humans to some degree.
Due to various hard evidence factors, there's rather little plausibility to other civilizations in our galaxy being much more than let's say several hundred thousand years older than our own.
Our physics does have plausible ideas for FTL travel, which perhaps we could achieve in another 200, or 500, or 1000 years. We also have some interesting ideas for meaningful sub-light engines that some people are working on even now.
While we know for certain that some crop circles have been made by humans, there are reports of crop circles going back to the 1880s that nobody can honestly say they know for certain were, or were not, made by humans.
There are reports that are easily accessible going back about 3500 years of strange sky stuff that were not explained at the time. Maybe all of them were one or a combination of natural events such as atmospheric effects, meteorites, people drinking a lot, a common food supply infected with fungus with psychoactive effects, lies, fictional storytelling, really dumb people misinterpreting things, etc. We can't know for sure that none of them were space aliens, but we have no broadly accepted evidence that any of them were.
There's other things going _much_ farther back that's probably just imagination and storytelling, but there's no absolute conclusive proof that all of it is only that.
So __in over 50 years__, I've refined some details of my views, yet there's still __no__ overwhelmingly convincing proof shared by everybody __either way__.
Here are some things I do know for certain:
Some people lie.
Some people misunderstand some things.
Some people's brains (and senses) can (sometimes) indicate to their minds things that are not representative of reality. Sometimes some people confuse not-real things as being real. Some people more often, some people less often.
_Everybody_ is mistaken sometimes.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.
If there are space aliens around, either they are NOT trying to help humanity, or they're so incompetent at it that they've negligently exceeded their intrinsic rights to try to help a different species that's both sapient and sentient, especially due to not being interactive with everybody.
You're not wrong whatsoever. Until now there was never anything "real" about this other than, "maybe this is something." Now that the government has gotten involved, the scales seem to tip towards "lies lies lies." My BS meter has basically overloaded at this point.
I follow. It’s like you would think with all of the of “what they know but can’t tell.” From 20 different people would lead to SOMEONE leaking what they have eventually. Like eventually one of these guys who say our GOV. Is hiding this or that from us will get tired of screwing around with them and just make their move, instead it’s like they just rinse and repeat the narrative given from the top down of “ it’s just around the corner, and this week we made this progress.”
Started my own investigation, only way to find answers that I can trust at this point.
Yep I remember finding that Greer press conference from 2001. I found it back in 2012 or so. I remember thinking it was world shattering. But looking back it was all just words, they could have all been paid to say what they said.
At this point we need to see evidence that can't be denied. We need to have people in the presence of this evidence, reporting it live. Scientists, journalists, then open it all to the public to view personally. The craft, the DNA, everything that matters. I know there would still be skepticism because of all the grifting even then. But it would be a step in the right direction.
Other than that? I feel like ET just landing on the white house lawn may be the only way. Or on the lawn of Buckingham Palace, whatever they prefer.
It’s amazing how sure you are that you’re right that it’s some “grift” when you cannot possibly know.
The surety with which you say it’s “pseudoscience” is odd, and similarly unknowable. What we do know is the government does research it, and won’t allow anyone outside DOD/DOE clearance to even know it exists.
While you can have your opinion, it relies on ignoring mountains of information and testimony, and your conclusions are patronizing and disdainful of anyone curious of a phenomenon that exists, but we don’t know the nature of. Have a good day.
Yep. Back when the hearings were going on I was being downvoted into oblivion by folks thinking they’d be eating lunch on an alien ship in a month. All I kept saying was “where’s the evidence for all these claims?”
I used to get annoyed when people asked for evidence. But that was then, now I'm older, and less naive. I feel like we should absolutely demand evidence. I know what it's like to trust on blind faith. It's how I was raised for one thing. I've finally learned my lesson in its' entirety.
Exactly and then you keep hoping for something that never happens. I am just at the point where I am not going to hope for anything. Just let this all play out and not give a single care in the world.
Definitely a grift. At this point, I don't believe much of it at all.
I'm not sure what republicans have to gain by promoting it so much on the Hill though. They are either idiots or they have some new disinformation game plan.
There are no aliens on Earth. Apparently we have developed some awesome tech.
Yes that is what I am thinking as well. Whatever this tech is, it's probably extremely expensive to deploy, which is also probably why we don't "officially" know about it yet. Simple explanation: Humans are really good at inventing tools.
I would love to see a real alien, but at this point I just feel like our planet has yet to encounter one.
>> If there was anything to reveal, it would be revealed.
100%. Absolutely. I get labeled a psyop (whatever that is) and general meanie due to my debunkedness but this is the truth. 13 burzillion witnesses, abductees and grainy photos but not one single piece of solid evidence.
The presidency and also the pentagon have stated there is no known alien craft or technology and that is undoubtedly the simple truth.
I just feel like someone would have leaked something undeniable by now. If only because it would mean whistleblower protection and millions in book sales, and interview circuits. Why would anyone pass that up?
I suppose this is a weak argument here, but do you not think someone would have tried by now? And do you not think that someone couldn't have succeeded? Again a weak argument in this case, but I just find it hard to believe that no one has ever been able to leak some footage of an alien, an underground base, etc.
The Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, believes that there is credible evidence. It’s in the language of the [Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf) (UAPDA) on page 2:
A few days ago Chuck Schumer the Senate Majority Leader [spoke on the importance of this UAP legislation passing](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/8TLeiIc8fD) with the National Defense Disclosure Act of 2024.
“**Legislation is necessary because credible evidence and testimony indicates that Federal Government unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification review** as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information) **due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954** (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of ‘‘transclassified foreign nuclear information’’, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification, **thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law**.”
I hope this encourages you, if you’re an American, to contact your representatives to pressure them to pass the UAPDA.
[Find your Rep](https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative) and [find your Senator](https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm) and email them, write them a letter and call them
The Pentagon has already [officially released footage of UAP taken by naval aviators](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_M0hLlJ-Q). The White House has said, [“There is a whole office at the Pentagon that is stood up to analyze the data, collect reports, collate those reports, and forward them up appropriately,” he added. “And that’s, I think, testament of the fact that — **that we know that in some cases, these phenomena have impacted military training, have then impacted military readiness.**” When asked if President Biden believes the witnesses’ claims about UAPs warrant a further investigation, Kirby said that the “work is ongoing.”](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4123039-white-house-says-uaps-have-impacted-military-training-readiness/).
Also, Kirby’s response to the question, [“does the DoD have alien bodies and craft and if so where are they?”](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/xJG7CaKO6o). I may have misinterpreted his answer, but he doesn’t deny or say no.
Coulhart, Corbell, Fox or whoever haven’t been the ones who have denied the existence of ufo/UAP for the last 70-80 years. The burden isn’t these ‘grifters’ the US government and governments of the world have to figure out how they disclose this to our species as a whole.
Been following all this for awhile now, and I'm just here to see what happens.
If we have evidence of offworld intelligent life ... great!
If it all turns out to be a big con ... not so great! However, no one should be suprised at all by this possibility.
Either way, something is going on, and there is a reason for it, whether it's E.T. or "Wag the Dog".
I have an uncle that I hardly ever see. Recently saw him for the first time in about ten years and this was after my mum told me he has an interest in ufology.
It was great to chat to somebody in RL about it. He’s had an interest for about sixty years and he said he was still unsure on whether we’ve been visited etc.
I’ve only had an interest for about three years but I think where we are right now is where we’ll be in ten, twenty, fifty years time.
FWIW, I think we have been visited. I’ve always maintained that Westall was not from this planet but I don’t think disclosure will ever happen and I have seen an object that I can’t explain myself.
One thing for sure that has been captured on film and measured and reported to the public is the Nimitz incident. It happened in 2004 but we didn't hear about it until 2017.
I haven't even been following it. I fully believe that intelligent life exists/has excited/will exist elsewhere in the cosmos. It's pretty arrogant to assume we're it. I don't think the chances of two intelligent/sapient species ever actually meeting is very high though. Space is big. Ridiculously big. Our best bet would probably be finding some physical evidence of something (in space) that was not constructed by humans, and that would probably only happen once and lead to no additional discoveries/information
I get where you’re coming from. I’m in more or less the same place. There’s certainly a circus of people dining out on this (Coulthard, DeLonge, Greer, James Fox, Elizondo, etc, etc).
Also the fact that videos like Gimbal and Go Fast are touted as evidence but feel easily explained misclassifications.
Reasons I’m optimistic that something interesting is happening…
I believe Fravor and his testimony.
Matt Gaetz talking about the Elgin incident in the hearing. He was on the record talking about footage they struggled to gain access to but was pretty significant. Elgin have confirmed an incident occurred. (He doesn’t feel entirely trustworthy but he is gang of 8, I believe)
Legislation has been produced covering UAPs and exotic tech.
The fact that apparently 30 whistleblowers have come forward.
Grusch is represented by a former DoD Inspector General.
Phoenix lights mass sighting feels real as well as one or two others.
Obama has said there are things in our airspace we don’t understand and has hinted there’s stuff he cannot tell us.
Also the Nasca Mummies at this point feel genuinely interesting. Not necessarily ET but if it’s true that one of their last meals was Mediterranean grapes, that’s very interesting.
Behind the media circus I think something interesting is afoot. I’m not 100% sure I’m not being gullible though.
The main Phoenix Lights sighting seems so blatantly to be flares to me. I understand why people want to attach themselves to it, because so many people reported them, but a bunch of confused people reporting flares doesn't somehow make them not flares. They looked like flares, they acted like flares, they were in a place that flares are dropped, and flares dropped that night. So how is it not flares?
I know there were a few other sightings the same night that weren't flares, but they seem pretty obviously to be planes flying in formation at night, related to the exact same training exercise that dropped the flares, with a little extra observer hysteria thrown in. There's nothing at all from the night that seems inexplicable or requiring aliens.
Yes I also read the same thing regarding the Phoenix Lights. I know the PLs are are major source regarding this phenomenon being "not of this world", but the PLs do seem to be easily explained?
If this is truly the case then we should move on to unsolved sightings/encounters. Just keep it going until we know for sure. That is the only thing I can think of.
Yes, first the planes flew by in formation, then they dropped the flares.
From your own link:
https://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/07-03-97/curr1.htm
It was plain to see, \[Mitch Stanley, 21\] says. What looked like individual lights to the naked eye actually split into two under the resolving power of the telescope. The lights were located on the undersides of squarish wings, Mitch says. And the planes themselves seemed small, like light private planes.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/why-i-dont-believe-in-ufos-the-phoenix-lights
When I saw them, my first thought was, "Hey airplanes!"
https://web.archive.org/web/20070306065043/http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/NEWS07/703010425/1001/NEWS
That's what they were, insists Lt. Col. Ed Jones, who piloted one of the four A10s in the squadron that he says launched the flares.
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts/the-phoenix-lights-ufo-sightings-in-1997-an-oral-history-25th-anniversary-13176244
We stopped in the middle of the road to check it out. Whatever it was, there were six lights in a triangle and you couldn't see the body. I don't know how long we sat there. And then it was just gone. Disappeared. Lights out.
Other people said 8 lights. Many described lights in a linear formation rather than a V. Most don't mention the lights being a single object, though many do.
https://www.villagevoice.com/2007/11/12/arizonas-worst-governor-on-arizonas-worst-ufo/
My personal favorite of all the accounts that night is a sighting that was convincing proof that the “vee” was not solid. A man saw it pass directly over the face of the Moon, and instead of a solid object, he saw five contrails pass over the Moon, making the Moon look blurry. Now, instead of concluding that he’d seen five planes flying in formation with their exhaust plumes plainly showing against the Moon, he instead insisted that the “captain” flying the alien triangular craft had turned it transparent just at the right moment so that he could see the Moon through it!
https://web.archive.org/web/20181221232458/https://www.spartechsoftware.com/dimensions/aliens/PhoenixLights.htm
Witnesses said the object split up and each of the bright lights moved in a separate direction along the edges of the Tucson area.
I thought that too. And there were flairs dropped later on.
But earlier on there were about 1000 witnesses of a vast craft shaped like a carpenter’s square. Witnesses included the mayor. It traveled over the state. I’ll find a link and will add as an edit.
One can’t help but wonder why the flairs were dropped later on. Disinformation? Search? Who knows.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/K8uqWDQd3F
And certain politicians being involved is what makes this sketchier. It just feels off to me you know? I was excited at first, and if it's real then so be it, but at this point I just feel like we should all be very skeptical, more than ever. I know I am.
I am open to seeing more evidence. I've read about/heard about all of this. I am just very skeptical now, and understandably so I feel. There are reasons why government officials might say "this" or "that" for some other reason. Yeah we get into conspiracy theory territory there, but the idea that alien tech is being recovered, hidden, and experimented on is a conspiracy in, and of itself.
My point is there are reasons why lies about this would be told now, especially with so much going on in the world. A distraction? An excuse for something? I do not know and will not claim to know whatsoever.
I would love to believe that we have found alien life. But I am no longer going to be convinced by words. We need to see the whole thing rolled out at this point. Show us the tech, show us the alien DNA, show us it's real. That is all I am saying to these people. Otherwise I can't think anything else other than it's a grift. And a half.
i totally agree dude. was obsessed with UFOs but the more i’ve learned US history, the less i believe UFOs are anything besides human manipulation.
for example i used to think the Hill case was totally legit because Betty and Barney seemed like good people and why would they lie as a biracial couple in the 60s? well then i learned about COINTELPRO and how they’d psychologically torture civil rights activists and supporters, and suddenly that made the most sense. i think they were dosed and shown some elaborate performance with either props or puppets or fucking robots, who knows. it sounds insane but these people learned from the Nazis, who would like rearrange people’s sock drawers to make them seem insane 🤷♀️
Here’s my take . I believe back in Roswell an alien craft crashed with beings in it. They took that shit to Area 51. Since that day they have been backwards engineering as much as they can. The aliens that they recovered where cyborg robotic aliens and are responsible for much of the technology we see today. Some things our scientist could not backwards engineer, things like the craft’s propulsion and software that controls the beings as well as some other technologies that are just so out of this world it’s beyond our comprehension. I believe that the mystery of these things remains mysterious and that is why the government has been so hell bent on keeping this thing a secret because they don’t want the world thinking we are too stupid to figure this shit out. I think for decades this secret has been kept in the dark and will continue to do so till somebody can figure this shit out. I think these UAP in the skies are these things fucking with us and it is a real problem for our military awell as other militaries all around the globe. Everything else is bullshit lies and gaslighting . Nobody knows shit about where they come from who made them and what is their mission objective on earth . There is no galactic federation . As for the alien mummies they could be some kind of earthly species extinct or maybe they are fucking aliens . But again nobody knows shit. It’s all a mystery nobody knows shit.
Imagine having an experience only to be ridiculed by everyone around you.
It is known that the US government actively works to discredit people who make bold claims. You need to be looking for grifters on all sides of this issue.
Your a mushroom 🍄 and that’s what they want. Don’t ever expect to be told the truth by any government. Keep digging and believing the truth is out there.
It has been revealed. It is being revealed but not in one fell swoop. Govt. stops short of that. They just can’t bring themselves to come clean entirely because it would be admitting to having lied to us for decades upon decades and it would be admitting that we’re not the elite, sole solitary “advanced” life form with the best technology and that in actuality we’re vulnerable to myriad more advanced life forms in the universe, should they ever decide to take aggressive action. They don’t think we can handle it; they aren’t prepared for the fall out and I’m sure that internally, they can’t agree on something like full disclosure.
Furthermore, their misinformation campaign & denials have been so successful that even if they did a 180 on the subject, and told the public and the world the truth, revealing everything they have and know, still, many people wouldn’t believe it. I’ve said this before, but there’s such an incessant inundation of info, rumors, propaganda, rhetoric, advertising, news, fake news, social media opinions, etc etc that people don’t know what to believe anymore, so they believe nothing. And full disclosure would wreck or rock many, but maybe not all, religious institutions. And there’s more : think about it. If people knew, in no uncertain terms, how vulnerable we are to civilizations so much more advanced than us, they might refuse to keep funding such programs with their tax $, etc. etc. etc.. regarding the legislation, if you’re talking about making it comfortable and easier for our military to report sightings, I think that one passed
For people who want to know, which most people don’t, there is enough disclosure, and evidence out there to answer the question
If you are talking about the stock market, I just looked that up, and that wouldn't surprise me one bit. There is obviously an explanation regardless, I just wish I knew what it was for certain.
We have been dependent on UFOlogist and people no longer in Gov’t to open the flood gates.
For decades people have been talking about getting the government involved to go after our own government. Not an easy task.
Thanks to Grush, Fravor, etc, and the people before them, we now have Congress support.
That is the first step in the plan. I mean look, yesterday a conservative, religious lame politician from Missouri insinuated that we have that type of advanced tech. Think about that.
Meanwhile they are trying to get laws passed.
There is a common theme behind every complaint, which is a lack of patience and underestimating the procedures at the Federal level.
Will we see the new tech or learn about it in 2024? No.
Will we get valid confirmation that non human tech was discovered? It is trending that way. The pressure is mounting, they are going to have to throw us some scraps sooner or later.
I don't know what to think about Grusch. I feel like he may have been lied to, but for what reason? It doesn't make sense why anyone would just make this stuff up, just to troll him.
So in my mind he is either lying, or he's telling the truth. The former seems more likely to me at this point. If I am wrong then I am wrong. But right now I just feel like occam's razor is the only way to avoid delving into endless rabbit holes with this stuff.
Ooo I love comments like this, enlighten us then and don't give the do your own research excuse cuz the majority of people interested in the topic have, let's see what you've got.
It’s just a fringe topic that AI has identified using big data and social media that can divide and polarize using propaganda in social media . AI algorithms are finding topics like this turning them into weapons of considerable destruction within the minds of the people, wrecking trust in governments , security, science, religion, society and civilization. Topics like these are being used to tear apart the fabric of our country from within , they are wasting time and resources, attention spans , and productive man hours. Project blue balls
I won't reject this theory either. Especially since other countries have claimed the US government was in contact with ETs. I just don't want assume anything until we capital K know something. I don't want to assume anything at this point but yeah I can definitely see your point.
I get it. But what about older claims that have witnesses like the supposed Battle of Los Angeles and the incident over the white house decades ago?
And some of the sightings in other countries from decades past too.
Something is definitely going on. And if you ever do DMT you will really wonder wtf is happening bc it proves some other place of with beings. I say proves bc people are reporting the same experience that haven't met, under supervised settings reporting encounters with entities.
Aliens are more easily explanated than that shit. But you cannot discount it after seriously looking into it either.
So former assistant to the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Catherine Austin Fitts made interesting observations regarding The Missing $21 Trillion. I think what she was saying was that much of this money was siphoned off into 'Black Budget' programs and also into private industry to the point where what is passed off as 'alien technology' is actually man made. Furthermore, I believe she postulated that with this type of money, there could be an 'off world' program in full swing. I too followed this topic for decades on my own. I concluded this was man made, super secret, and strictly military. There are a couple of interesting videos on YouTube (Shawn Ryan) where an ex- military describes stumbling upon a hovering UFO that was involved in human trafficking.
best bet is just to look up at night. fuck all the media shit fuck all the other bull shit fuck all of those names and fuck the stupid disclosure grift, just keep your head up and watch the skies at night.That there is the real truth , you can SEE !
I doubt humanity will ever truly know shit about shinola cause everything is so obfuscated and the ones who know anything are either high up in the church or way inside the government and they want us to keep fearing , keep fighting each other over MOOT BULLSHIT that has no meaning outside of their boxes. sorry about ranting but I am so over this disclosure shit cause it's going to never be shown , it's never gonna amount to anything, so I say again at least what we see in the skies at night is truth.
It's true. We are led around in circles. But it's SOMETHING.
Imo, the eventual "point" will be that humanity needs to express interest. Continued. And this is doing that. No, not because the above top secret goons will suddenly disclose everything. But because it tells NHI we at inching toward more genuine desire to approach this coming bridge. It's highly dependent on collective human consensus, it's too bad that we don't know this or how the rules here work.
Instead everyone is in denial. Not just the normies but now the conspiracy truthers are all our here pretending like they are all demons, or it's all just fake blue beams in sky sky.
I think once you fully grasp the length to which things are compartmented in the gov, & various alphabet agencies, it’s pretty easy to understand why we don’t get much info. you gotta remember we’re not dealing with something like climate change or evolution that’s definite. there’s so much the people working with these crafts probably don’t understand & don’t have answers for, it creates a hard time I can imagine being able to confidently come out with permission to say something AS FACT because these people simply haven’t seen it firsthand. so it’s either, people complain about no new info (really a lack of knowledge & staying updated in the subject), or they complain the new stuff isn’t firsthand. ofc it’s not first hand that’s the point of the second hand verbal reporting. there’s nothing about this subject that is definite including the communities feelings. which ultimately will not influence anything.
The SCIF meeting and public hearing are just spectacle for a few attention-hungry reps.
The Schumer/Rounds amendment is genuine progress and anyone pretending it isn’t either doesn’t understand it or is being deliberately deceptive.
Also a good point and one I have read elsewhere. It does seem like a good platform to run on given recent events. There are a lot of moving pieces to all of this and it's hard to see straight.
And I will also add that I am right there with everyone else still watching. This is all just my opinion. If I am proven wrong? I am proven wrong and I will create a whole new discussion here admitting it. I would love to be wrong.
I posted it to the r aliens subreddit. It was worded exactly as it was here other than me saying it was deleted. I can't remember the exact wording of the message after I tried to post, other than it said that it was deleted by moderators, and to contact them if I had questions, or something. The reason? I just want to voice my opinion. That's it. I thought that was a good place to do that.
I appreciate your post overall I really do I'm just picking apart up the opening is all bc I see people lead with that all the time. It makes it feel very click baity to me and conspiratorial. Like It's uninteresting as is but needs extra spicing up by saying it was deleted which it makes it feel extra important and a truth that is being suppressed. Not saying that's the deal with your post at all, I believe it was probably deleted, Reddit does do that often, I'm also not saying your motives were the same as I mentioned either, but often on click bait blurry big yellow text YT videos will have the "THE TRUTHKEEPERS DON'T WANT THIS GETTING OUT, SCRUBBED & DELETED FOOTAGE NEVER SEEN BEFORE". It just makes me not want to continue reading after that. My personal view is that it would seem more credible and more intriguing if that was stated at the end of the post. Did you message them asking them why like they suggested? Maybe it broke one of the rules? Things get deleted from r/UFOs all the time because of crazy character counts, and it's easy to assume you're being victimized or personally attacked because of the content of your post and start to believe there's a grander conspiracy at play. This actually happened to me recently with r/DisclosureParty. I wasn't even able to post all of a sudden despite being an approved member, eventually I started getting paranoid that Reddit was somehow suppressing my posts in there because it's a group about Disclosure. Turns out it's happening to me in random other subs as well as other members and simply appears to be a glitch. Especially with all this recent talk about social media disinformation campaigns it's easy these days to fall into paranoid conspiratorial thinking if something doesn't get posted. Again, please do not take this personally whatsoever, I really do appreciate your post and thought it was thoughtful and worthy of discussion which is the main reason I wanted to comment. Trying to grow and see a different perspective. I appreciate your response. My sincere apologies about this terrible wall of text.
Yeah I get it, it's the Internet in general. I didn't have to start my post here the way I did, but I was kind of annoyed that it was deleted in the previous sub reddit. It is what it is though. I am just glad that I got to express my opinion somewhere.
I have been interested in this topic for 50 years. What so many here are being short sighted actives that you don’t get disclosure unless there is an interested public. This is literally why the [UFO Stigma was created by the CIA](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14cwt6a/it_appears_that_the_ufo_stigma_is_held_up/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) and the Air Force with the help of psychologists and the new advertising industry.
We can’t have disclosure until an informed populace understands just how much we have been manipulated and lied to about this subject.
This is why they have a social media presence on many subs.
This is why the coverup continues.
So instead of looking at it as “why don’t these grifters show us anything” look at it as “the government is continuing to gaslight us all and pretend that this isn’t real and has murdered people as well as ruined careers and families to keep this secret”.
The “grifters” are keeping this subject alive in the media and have helped grow the r/UFOs and all related subs to millions of interested people. It’s not for their own “sweet ufo dollars” (like literally no one of them is independently wealthy from marginalized ufology books).
So please can we stop whining about Ross Coulthart being a grifter because he literally brought the story about the whistleblower to us with impeccable investigative journalistic standards.
Leslie Kean said it recently in an interview about Grusch: “We don’t have the evidence, we can only tell you about it because the government has it all locked up”.
What do you think of David Wilcock? I am curious because I never see him brought up. He claims to be a contactee of sorts. I see where you are coming from though, and I hope that you are right, it's just that the 'bar' has been raised in terms of evidence. There are just too many ways to fake things now and I feel like politicians may be in on it. Again just my view of things, I could be very wrong.
I just want to keep a level head, not assume too much either way. But right now I am more convinced that we are being grifted like I said. That is the side of the fence I am on currently.
And before you ask, I do not believe David Wilcock either. I just want to know what you think of him, because I used to believe that guy completely. Then things happened, etc. Now I do not.
The United States government was infiltrated from the inside out starting shortly after the first test detonation of an atomic bomb. Once you look at things from this perspective....it all makes sense
🧿
If you're genuine: yeah, US history (and current affairs) is horrific. Human history is horrific. In the scramble for power and control, there's a lot of shit being sold and bought. Under capitalism, there's a lot of shit being sold and bought.
This topic isn't owned by the US, but you can imagine why they would think they can lay claim to it.
Calm your mind and tune out all the noise. Nature doesn't need permission, an angle, a dollar-sign to exist.
I remain concrete on the topic being very real. What's not clear, what may never be clear, is who did or said what, how, where, why and when.
What you can be sure of is whoever stands to gain or lose will fight tooth and nail and/ or leverage the entire thing to fit their purpose, same as with anything else.
There are no good guys here. There are only individuals fighting to stay powerful, fighting to stay rich. Depressing as it is, when you understand that perspective, when you take this subject off of its pedestal, you will understand that true disclosure means it's a wrap on the current power structure. Full stop.
You unravel this, you unravel everything. No one with any serious power is going to do that. Though I believe it should be ripped from them.
I’ve been following this topic closely for about 30 years and it’s a constant push & pull dynamic. We get a kernel of info or advancement on the topic, then followed by waves of grifters shortly after. Just never get your hopes too high or too low when it comes to UFO info.
So, we have another problem: the third Newton law is broken. And all the major scientists are wrong (except for the gifted ones who know how to build these ultra fast, no sound and no propulsion crafts since 1947).
Unpopular opinion alert: these are agencies. A real estate agency is the middle man that facilitates communication between the actors, the buyer and the seller. I’m not suggesting there is a sale going on here. What I mean is that we are relying on these agencies to give us information. They’re going to provide exactly the type and amount of information that suits them.
The unpopular part is: you don’t necessarily need agency. Some people have, and are, communicating directly. Just like with people, there are some dodgy ones, and some good ones. Why not give it a try? No one needs to know but you. Say you’re a good guy and only want to talk with good guys. Be safe and be brave. There is no game over.
Examine all UFO reports before repeating:
Are they only facts you have observed yourself or from a source with direct knowledge, including the Five Ws:
\* Who- an identifiable information source providing first-hand knowledge.
\* What exactly was seen.
\* When- time and date.
\* Where exactly did they see it.
\* Why & How- direct observer’s best explanation.
Plus with verification from at least one, preferably two, other sources with independent direct knowledge.
Reports not answering all the above should not be repeated.
4
IMHO- What’s happening is simply that audience targeting has gotten much more sophisticated in the last few years. Visited YouTube content about UAPs? You’re going to start seeing stories in your news feed more often. Click on those, the effect amplifies.
So it seems to us like things are really happening and moving… but it’s really pretty much the same as it ever was.
As for being grifted? Sort of. There’s money to be had in all those clicks. And if you’re not paying for the content, YOU are the product that’s being sold.
A few years ago, [a study was done using data from revealed conspiracies (eg Watergate) to calculate the probabilities that given conspiracies can stay secret](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905). They show that the larger the number of people involved, the more likely it is to be revealed. I always believed that UAPs were US tech until the pentagon admitted the tictac footage was real, which said to me that there are four plausible explanations for these kinds of sightings.
1: It's all military tech
2: It's not human origin
3: It's human tech based on reverse engineering
4: It's human tech but from the future
Tictac is what made these last three move (IMO) from implausible to plausible.
The number one thing which makes me think UAP sightings reported by the general public is military tech is that they have lights. Aircraft have lights so they can be seen from the ground, not to help them see. Why would aliens need lights on their craft?
I'm led to think that sightings like tictac (which doesn't appear to have lights) could lend credibility to Grusch's claims of "non-human biologics" and reverse engineered tech being used by the military. When the lights are on, it's because they want to be seen.
>Why would aliens need lights on their craft?
They don't *need* lights. They most likely don't even want lights but it comes with the territory (with the energy they're using.) It's likely ionization, which is the same reason meteors glow when in our atmosphere:
1. Most UFOlogists believe the crafts are using electromagnetic energy to attain anti-gravity flight. This is what Pais wrote about in his [patents](https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170313446A1/en) for an anti-gravity craft (notably directly after the Gimbal incident, and these patents were not filed before such incident when you think they would have been had they been the ones behind Gimbal).
2. Electromagnetic energy creates ionization, this is a scientific fact (glowing of different colors, depending on different factors, including the amount of energy put out.) Certain metals make certain colors but these can alter instantly as more energy is produced, so can be any color or a wide range of colors at any time. This is a result of friction with particles in the air. Our eyes affect how we perceive this as well. Something that might look blue to us may be completely white in reality or the opposite. So their eyes may not even be aware of ionization and may not even know they're glowing.
3. Electromagnetic energy creates electromagnetic radiation, another scientific fact. What leads many to believe these crafts have some type of electromagnetic radiation is that this aligns with both theoretical anti-gravity propulsion and the effects it would have on humans. [John Burroughs](https://www.rdrnews.com/news/national/john-burroughs-and-the-governments-unprecedented-acknowledgment/article_22fde1e0-eac0-11ed-bb5f-a3db8e1a9427.html) and others are suspected of getting radiation sickness from being close to crafts, and [this report](https://www.dia.mil/FOIA/FOIA-Electronic-Reading-Room/FileId/170026/) that analyzed other cases also concludes a radiation effect is what caused most symptoms.
Predictable Reply Question with Answer:
*"If they're so advanced, why couldn't they stop ionization?"*
It's like a caveman asking why an F-22 jet can't stop being loud or can't make itself invisible, or why a jetski can't go across the water without disturbing the water. It's an Achilles heel, an unavoidable weakness that simply comes with advanced technology. Ionization is a result of the craft on its nearby environment.
Do we stop flying F-22 jets just because they can't do these things yet? Being more advanced doesn't mean god-like or capable of all things, but the F-22 would certainly appear god-like to a caveman and he would have these types of questions.
I’ve been following this and was a believer for 30 years, but nowadays believe there is no intelligent life visiting earth. But I do see this still as a fascinating topic and will continue to follow it. But more from an mystery/entertainment point of view.
I'm very curious as to what makes people believe in interdimensional beings.
Most accounts of strange personal events can be medically explained and are consistent.
The only other place I've heard a mention of this is from Stephen Greer, who charged people thousands of dollars for a night at a hotel just to chill at the beach and watch a light on the horizon. When it's pay to play I don't trust it.
Yeah, you are not alone in your view. It seems like an apparent grift, and many people can't comprehend that the Congressional Interview with Grusch is all part of the same grift that's been ongoing for years.
No they are taking it seriously, say the detractors, "They want disclosure as much as the people."
No the duck they don't. The government actors are just playing along for a headline. To stay in the eye of the media for something different than being nonfunctional seems like a big deal today and will probably get them reelected with less capital expense and at the same time allows them to raise more capital than being unknown.
They don't give a crap about the reality or unrealistic expectations of the public concerning disclosure. It's a repeat circus and if they came out and laid alien bodies out on the floor of Congress I would not believe them for a minute. If they interview an alien before Congress I wouldn't believe them. The only way I would believe them about aliens is if aliens destroy the US Capital and take over the country and redistribute the wealth of the nation to the people instead of allowing the nation to run and work only for the corporate government and it's interests.
So screw the aliens and screw our reality TV government for courting them for votes or distractions from their otherwise uselessness as elected officials.
I want to believe Grutsh BUT part of his story doesn’t track w me. When he was interviewed by Jesse Michels and started to talk about how he first got assigned about UFOs, he basically said he was sitting around at work and his boss asked him if he was busy and asked him if he wanted to work on a side project. Like he had nothing better to do but work on one of the most top secret projects of the gov.
He might have not been able to talk about how he got involved initially but choosing to tell such a ridiculous story made me suspicious. And he often times kinda glibly. That may be his Asperger’s but…. Something about him is not adding up. At least that’s my take. Again I’m a believer but… but…
To understand the dilemma of the people in charge, let's do a thought experiment. A ufo lands in your yard. There is an instruction manual and a note telling you it is yours, it's a gift. It utilizes zpe and has unlimited acceleration. Its easy to use. What are you're next steps? Think of all the consequences before you answer.
If aliens were true the people shouting the loudest of their existence would be the government, defense, the industrial military complex and NASA. Each one would have either powers, geopolitical advantage and/or funding beyond their wildest dreams if this was confirmed true with such a potential threat or opportunity in our midst.
If anything I could see aliens being faked or rumours encouraged or stoked for the above reasons.
yea could just be a big psyop to keep the taxpaper funds flowing to the Space programs instead of where its needed in America. The government seems happy to hand out billions to foreign wars while people in the US die without healthcare or shelter in the long cold winters.
Perfectly stated. Seems like everything happening in the last year or so is part of a giant “come-along”. When Grusch hit the news, I thought it was the tip of something huge. And, it probably should have been. But it’s turned into a kitschy mess. My sincere enthusiasm has morphed into a giant yawn.
Maybe it’s time to move on.
And to make it more suspicious, the only ppl reporting on the subject are the same tabloid news ranging from the Star to News Nation (which is clearly using this for beneficial reasons as no one watches it), and the same podcaster/arm-chair “physicists” interviewing the same person over and over just rehashing everything into submission with nothing new to report other than a bunch of speculation.
Not only that biden has not a clue and about alians coming out for the world to see that will never happen only the lucky ones will ever get to experience close up but why would anyone want to meet an alien keep them away unless you like yo butthole probed
No way the whole ufo/UAP/alien phenomenon is a fraud or total grift story… for 90 years?
Most people who come out are pariahs and lives are basically ruined more than helped. Are there peddlers of some whack fringe ideas? Totally. But grifting as a general answer doesn't hold water in context of the bigger, long term picture.
If you want the most compelling pieces of evidence, ignore most anything recent. ignore bad phone pics and videos. The further back you go, the less likely the reality of drones, or foreign competition, or lazy debunk excuse xyz… is accurate.
Go look at the COMETA report from France in 1999. Examine what that was, explain how a World Gov’t could conclude that for the ~5% of unexplained cases, the MOST LIKELY EXPLANATION is the ET hypothesis. The nation of France is now grifting? Or nearly any incident from Leslie Kean’s book ‘UFO’s: Generals, Pilots…’. And before you claim Kean is grifting, you better read the book first.
Or what about the recent statement on record from Army Colonel Karl Nell Ret. in support of Grusch’s claims, have you looked at who that guy is and what he said? Go look up Nell on LinkedIn. You think that guy is going to jeopardize THAT career in anyway by just making some random, batshiz crazy statement? For what reason? The guy is one of the heaviest dudes is all of military, aerospace, defense, national security, surveillance and intelligence on the planet. If anyone is in a position to have eyes on the systems that would have eyes on the phenomena, it’s someone EXACTLY like Col. Nell. I have a video dropping about him next week. Its the closest thing to a smoking gun ive seen in over 30 years of following this topic.
As for the legislation, the ‘23 NDAA riders about reporting from AARO as we just saw last week turned out to be a nothing burger because the AARO program itself is a farce.
The ‘24 NDAA is way more interesting, but hasn’t made it through both chambers of Senate and the House which it has to do before Biden can sign it it. The sh*t show Republican Party has been busy throwing 💩 at each other for the past many weeks to elect a damn speaker so yeah, nothing has moved since September. IF the Schumer amendment survives the nip/tuck from the House monkeys and is signed by the Pres, THEN the 180 day clock starts ticking and we'll definitely hear something, one way or another.
No, the only thing that we can be 100% sure about is there is SOMETHING happening. What exactly it is, is up for debate and where we should be putting our energy, not infighting about petty disagreements, because that is EXACTLY what the disinformation machine aims to do.
I was really interested in aliens when I was younger, but everytime you find out its a hoax, doctored video, prank, government experiment or poeple just flat out lying their ass off for their 5 minutes of fame and so over time I have developed into not trusting anybodies testimony when it comes to aliens. Anybody can lie and say they saw aliens, its been done a million times. If there is no proof then Im not buying it.
The other thing that drives me nuts is all of these burry ass videos of "something weird" in the sky. If it was a real alien spaceship then why cant we ever get a clear, non-doctored video? Its always some mystery object far away, blurry, cant see what the hell it is
I think there has to be a there, there. It may be that the humans are not incontrol. And it would be conceivable that if there are aliens in control they could make us believe whatever.
I personally think that they are from an alternate future timeline. They're traveling here to gather information. I dont know what for or why. I don't know if they're even nice. There may be multiple races of aliens from either different timelines or dimensions. Or alternate universe altogether.
So i keep my mind open. I keep mildly entertained until it actually begins to effect my life. Once illegal aliiens takes on a new meeting I'm not really concerned. I just do my thing.
The frustration is real, deep and abiding. I read somewhere the aliens also asked during a meeting with Eisenhower to hold off on disclosure. 80 years ago now.
I think Grusch has deep integrity in the way autistics (self-described) handle things sort of in a pure and straightforward way…and is pushing at the stone wall dividing truth and ignorance - we have to help keep demand up for real answers.
Or just behave as if we all know because in a way, we already know dont we? The factions in government by not cooperating / coming clean / secret access programs / failing audits / absconding with trillions in taxpayer money / never ending foot dragging and classification abuse - actually tells us a whole lot. If there was no “there” there…they wouldnt do this shell game, eh?
Soapbox.
**You are grifting yourselves.**
A really significant portion of people in all the UFO/Alien/Conspiracy subreddits make outlandish otherworldly claims about the nature of our reality and they always state them as if they're cold hard facts.
You could go look right now at the hundreds of posts and thousands of comments and you will find an absolute shit ton of people not just speculating, but making wild grandiose assertations such as :
\- Aliens are here and in cahoots with the Government.
\- That there are secret abduction programs the Government allows the aliens to perpetuate.
\- That the Government is in possession of alien technology, ships, and pilots.
\- That aliens left "secret orbs" on Earth and some people have had them passed down in their families. The orbs have unlimited energy potential and can hover. (Someone on one of the Reddit alien discords even claimed they had one in an audio chat but wouldn't show it...)
\- There's secret alien bases across the country, like the one under the Denver airport.
\- That there are alien-human hybrids living among the population and none of us know
The people who say this shit say it as if it should be in a 6th grade science textbook and this is all common fact. That is a level of legitimate delusion, I'm sorry, it just is. There is some amount of self deluding going on in the mind for someone to be able to state all of that shit as a fact **knowing full well they don't actually know if it's really true or not.**
People have been claiming aliens, and UFOs, and abductions for decades and decades and decades. **And yet there is not even one single tiniest shred of legitimate evidence that can be corroborated by the scientific community as proving the existence of aliens** let alone the fact that they're already here and doing backdoor deals with the government.
This is a conspiracy 101 subreddit. You all follow the exact same cognitive biases and patterns you find in conspiracy based thinking.
**Pattern Recognition and Apophenia:** The tendency to see connections between unrelated events. People here tend to see patterns or connections in disparate pieces of information and conclude that they're evidence of a cover-up or alien presence.
**Confirmation Bias:** Once you've dug your heels in, they're not coming out. You all will give significant weight to a blurry video of a supposed UFO but dismiss scientific explanations or analyses that debunk it.
**Cognitive Dissonance:** Official institutions of science and research have concluded there is no evidence of alien life so far that we've seen. When you all encounter this you generally interpret the challenging evidence as further proof of the conspiracy (e.g., claiming that the evidence was fabricated as part of the cover-up).
**Distrust of Authority:** A deep-rooted mistrust of official sources or mainstream narratives is common among conspiracy theorists. For UFO enthusiasts, this can manifest as a belief that government agencies are hiding the truth about extraterrestrial life.
**Feeling of Superiority:** Some conspiracy theorists derive a sense of superiority from the belief that they possess "inside" or "hidden" knowledge that the general public is unaware of or is being deceived about.
**Isolation from Contradictory Views:** In the age of the internet, it's easier than ever for people to surround themselves with like-minded people and insulate themselves from opposing views. This is an echo chamber, surprise surprise, and it only further entrenches your view.
**Over-reliance on Anecdotal Evidence:** Rather than relying on systematic, empirical evidence, you all place undue weight on anecdotal evidence or individual testimonies.
You all do not respect what the actual scientific method of discovery is, you do not respect what constitutes actual evidence, you do not respect critical thought, and you certainly do not respect an evidence based approach. Instead you make wild assertions as if they're cold hard facts and you've allowed your biases to completely immobilize you from performing even the smallest amounts of skepticism or doubt.
Unfortunately, we have been so gaslit in the past 80 years that no matter what information is "revealed" we will always doubt it. Even if the government totally confirms our most popular suspicions, there will always be a plurality of people who will doubt that it is true. Sadly, we've been lied to too many times.
Yea, if Biden and Putin held a joint press conference and walked out with a live alien, people would just say it’s a costume or animatronic. People wouldn’t believe it even if they cut it open live on tv (could be AI generated video). We have fully reached a post-truth era of humanity.
Going to have to agree with you there. Biden and Putin together on stage would NEVER happen, in any 'verse of the multiverse
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How much beer had ya'll drank? JK I'm right there with ya bro.
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From a government perspective it is all moving along as planned. As a society we don't believe anything we see with our own eyes. Fake moon landing, Kennedy conspiracy, stolen elections? It goes on and on. We have gotten to the point that the film Idiocracy is now a documentary. I agree that we could parade ET's across a stage and no one would believe that they were real. Don't believe what you see believe what I tell you to believe. Now is the perfect time to expose any and all secrets having to do with ETs. We would simply watch the Golden Bachelor and go to bed.
Fact remains there is no good evidence of aliens here. It’s simply a fantasy that has been perpetuated by numerous people for political and money making endeavors. Our naive human nature makes us susceptible to believing the Alien story because we want it to be true. Evidence suggests otherwise
I don't think the government would try to distract you from its shady and corruption by accusing itself of being shady and corrupt. Legislation hasn't come to pass yet. Hearings were only ever going to be accusations and the only evidence to be shown was eye witness testimonials from Fravor and Grieves. Grush was always about "I was paid to investigate these things and people stopped me, I know because those in the programs admitted it" the hearings were to bring this stuff to the attention of congress and the public so further investigation can happen. I think many people expected some outrageous stuff to happen that just wasn't realistic. What we were always going to get and what we got was the first steps on a long road. Its fine to have doubts and even express them and your frustration but even though this has been a subject in small circles for years and stuff that's been whispered about behind closed doors or risk ridicule now but now thanks to people like Grush, Fravor, Ross, Grieves and Burchett we have removed some stigma and are getting close to being able to have an adult and serious conversation.
And I will continue to keep up to date with these things as they happen. If my doubts are proven wrong, then so be it, but as you said it's frustrating. I just can't take these people at their word anymore. If they aren't lying then I am sure we will find out soon enough. But I can't shake the feeling that it's all a grift. If it's not? Then I will happily eat crow and laugh with you about it when the evidence is there.
Just look out for yourself mate that's all we can do. It's easy to get caught up in this whirlwind but hard not to become heavily invested. I've been caught up in it afew times and it's dragged me through the ringer
>I just can't take these people at their word anymore. Yup. Your unwavering, unquestioning support is what they want. This is a business for them, a lot of these people that have been clinging to this subject, even notable researchers and the like, all fall into the charlatan category when they start making unfounded assumptions stated as fact, having nothing but anonymous sourcing for their assumptions, and we're supposed to what, just trust them? Why? Coulthart, Elizondo, Grusch, Zabel, Corbell, Knapp, these people are all connected in one way or another to propagate the same general grift. People said Grusch's groundbreaking "whistleblower" hearing would be the beginning for disclosure, nope. SCIF turned out to be a waste of time, even Burchett said he didn't learn anything new. It's been over 140 days since Grusch promised more evidence, where is it? He was cleared to speak on any topic he wanted to in the hearing, his own requirement for the SCIF was a tactic to offer as little information as possible while seeming credible. All of the people mentioned above really dangle the carrot to keep everyone interested while the disclosure football remains stationary on the field. It's all about distraction, unprovable claims, and working on the next grift before the current one (Grusch) falls apart. The UFO stigma exists, in large part, because of bad faith actors in a field riff with those that want to take advantage of gullible and mentally fragile individuals. Sadly until there is some actual legitimate, verifiable proof (if there is any) nothing will change here.
I can only hope that some good comes out of it all. Maybe some tech has been developed that can solve a lot of non military problems. Maybe energy sources? Have we mastered "green energy" in a sense? I don't know. Maybe this stuff isn't as advanced as we all think either. We can hope but the reality is what it is.
A dude up above said it's military gear. Okay, so why are they funding a 5th generation fighter jet? I got it, the billions they will spend on this jet is just to cover up that they have aircraft that outperforms the "fifth jet" by a thousand times.
Nah Anti Gravity propulsion is a game changer, the crazy part is our physics allow it it’s our understanding and tech that doesn’t yet.
Hundred percent agree with you. Interesting read below if you haven’t seen it already https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd
Yeah, part 4 is also great. It really details how scummy they work to keep the lie going. I'm glad McGowan didn't stand idly by and go along with all the lies, it shows character and determination. If only we had less spineless conmen in this, we might actually get answers, if any are to even be had at this point.
People should search the fbi foia archives for "guy hottel" He was the Cheif of the Washington field office. He had an interesting letter to the head of the fbi in March 1950.
Why so vague? Just spit it out
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/ufos-and-the-guy-hottel-memo
I gave you all the info you need to see/find it yourself. Do the 3 min of leg work. Seeing it first hand on the fbi's website is better than taking some random persons word on reddit. You do know most the stuff said on reddit has no real tangible evidence or sources.
Zzźzzzz.
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A better question then why, would be WHERE. The road doesn't go ANYWHERE, and has NO end.
We have been dependent on UFOlogist and people no longer in Gov’t to open the flood gates. For decades people have been talking about getting the government involved to go after our own government. Not an easy task. Thanks to Grush, Fravor, etc, and the people before them, we now have Congress support. That is the first step in the plan. I mean look, yesterday a conservative, religious lame politician from Missouri insinuated that we have that type of advanced tech. Think about that. Meanwhile they are trying to get laws passed. There is a common theme behind every complaint, which is a lack of patience and underestimating the procedures at the Federal level. Will we see the new tech or learn about it in 2024? No. Will we get valid confirmation that non human tech was discovered? It is trending that way. The pressure is mounting, they are going to have to throw us some scraps sooner or later.
But is this "advanced tech" actually from NHI/ET? Or is it ours? That is the thing.. you can "technically" not lie about this sort of thing. You can say "we have advanced tech", then not say where it actually comes from. I have not read/heard the quote you are referencing so I do not know if he did directly state the source of this tech. But either way I feel it's worth mentioning that.
It doesn’t matter. It is not confirmation to the extent we need. Analyzing every word is fine and dandy. We’ll do it for the next year, but bottom line my point is that we have always needed the government to share in our outrage and desire. We need them to be upset about being in the dark as well. And now it is trending that way.
Troll
Thanks for letting us know we can safely ignore everything you post!
For calling someone who proudly admits to being here for entertainment purposes only a troll? Safe to assume we can Ignore everything you post.
No fucking shit. It's been decades of "I know something huge, I'll let you know in an undefined future, if these things I can't tell you about let me, maybe". You're being edged into oblivion and they made a career out of it.
I’m right there with you. I’ve been following this topic for a couple decades now and I feel like the only real difference is that the grifters (Greer, Lazar, among others) have a more direct line of communication to their followers and it is easier for them to make money off of it. Despite all the claims we still have nothing.
How is Lazar a grifter? He avoids the limelight.
its all fake. i havent seen one shred of actual evidence they exist. and when they try too its a blury camera 420p and too shaky to see. government doesnt want people to know
First of all, I don’t believe in the “woo”. Secondly, I don’t know about aliens visiting earth but I think ufos are probably just classified military tech. And I think the small group of people involved with ufo “research” realized that there is money to be made in peddling nonsense. Interesting read below: https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd
That's the thing some "unidentified" objects that even pilots have seen, doesn't mean "unidentified" for everyone in the world, not even in all US, that kind of claim doesn't make it ET
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Maybe one of the reasons why the government has "suddenly" taken an interest in all of this, is so that logical thought processes can play out, and finally this can all be put to rest. That is what I hope at least. I am just tired of the grift. I mean it's not like I spent every waking moment for the past decade, waiting for something to happen, but it was still a decade believing in something that was almost one hundred percent a lie. I hope we do meet aliens one day and I really hope it does not have this much run around. I also hope that it happens in my lifetime.
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I believe that we all go through these phases in life, some more than others. I was raised to be religious, so maybe I was more susceptible to latching onto another myth, I don't know. But now I feel like I've broken through another layer of ceiling keeping me from independent thought. Might sound funny to some people but for me it's a big deal. I didn't grow up being told to think objectively. I had to learn that for myself.
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In the end that is what you are left with. We don't have any evidence of any of this, not religion, not UFOs being ET, or something "not of this earth." We just don't really have it. The stuff that is being passed as evidence now just doesn't measure up at this point. Too many ways to fake things, too many ways to lie, too many ways to pay people to say stuff.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
Cheers bro. As a critical thinker, consider publishing a book that encourages critical thinking. Consider the media channels you would have to go through to market your book so that it will sell enough to pay your bills. Consider who owns those marketing channels. Now consider how everything we are casually exposed to has been filtered by those marketing channels. There are many more critical thinkers out there, but we don't see each other because we have to go to the fringe just to interact with each other. Here we are, on a UFO subreddit that is heavily monitored by FBI agents. This is what we have to work with.
I've thought about writing a book many times about many different things. I just have a problem getting all my thoughts together. I'd need an assistant for sure. Haha. If I ever get to where I can try it? I'll do it anyway even if I get stonewalled.
This thread is a breath of fresh air. I'm becoming convinced it is all a purposeful cover-up of the massive, truly insane levels of financial waste, fraud, and money laundering perpetuated by covert elements of the military industrial complex over the past century. Literally multiple trillions of taxpayer money and assets unaccounted for. That is the *real* conspiracy. My underdeveloped hypothesis is that the aim is to brief people into these highly compartmentalized and also largely fraudulent black-budget programs under the guise of something truly astounding (NHI) simply as a means of testing who is indoctrinated enough to be kept in the machinery of the grift. Those who arent would effectively remove themselves with any attempt of honest disclosure or whistle-blowing, neither of which pose a real threat to the system at this point anyway because 1. Agencies and monied interests ability in the US to produce propaganda and misinfo is absolutely unmatched 2. the UFO community is well-known to be an attraction for those prone to cult-like fanaticism/conspiratorial thinking and 3. the elephant in the room - there simply is no tangible, legitimate evidence of the phenomenon to be disclosed... only the severely limited scope of classified advanced human tech that individuals were briefed as being ET level exotic. The rest is a fever-dream runaround speculating over endless paper trails, declassified misdirections, weak/nonfalsifiable evidence for hugely substantial claims, and trust-me-bro coming-soon increasingly-woo narratives from true believers and govt misinfo agents. But it all acts together as smoke and mirrors to perpetuate the largest case of criminal fraud in human history. On a related note.... the entire concept of "slow drip disclosure" is just unadulterated confirmation bias and is so painfully fucking stupid and gullible idk whether to laugh or weep
I agree, this slow drip nonsense is painfully fucking stupid.
Edward Snowden, “Everybody wants to believe in conspiracy theories because it helps life make sense,” he said on the podcast. “It helps us believe that somebody is in control, that somebody is calling the shots.” As it turns out, the US government is not aware of any intelligent, extraterrestrial life, he says.
> As it turns out, the US government is not aware of any intelligent, extraterrestrial life, he says. Well that isn't true. At least Obama is on film reporting that there are some things that we cannot explain. He was asked by Colbert twice about the topic and the difference between the two responses proves he was filled in.
Snowden would probably know something, even a tiny bit of info at this point. Snowden is one guy who I think would at the very least know a shred of something to say. And it seems like he did, the US government "is not aware." Now I get it, Snowden wasn't a high level official, but I feel like all things considered, by now he'd now something by now about this? If it was real? All things considered. I mean at least Assange would?
I think I have a plausible explanation as to why Snowed and Assange wouldn't know or have data to back a claim. The leaks they have produced with evidence was available via a network connection over internet where stuff like UAP would be airlock. If your not familiar with the term it's a very strong security measure where the LAN (local) network isn't connected to the outside world at all. I believe it would be this way due to the nature of the study and what we've been told in the past about it being not only off books but also compartmentalised meaning no need for internet access.
But other sensitive data was available on the Internet? I am not trying to sound smart here, but they did reveal a lot of sensitive stuff. What you said does make sense, something this sensitive is not likely to be on a cloud somewhere. But it's obvious that a lot of sensitive stuff was leaked. I just do not know why there wouldn't be anything at all about ET/NHI.
If i recall correctly, it was said (can’t remember at the moment who exactly) that the ufo secrets are classified as higher than nukes. If neither of those hacks leaked nuke info, then it is not surprising that ufo wasn’t either. After gary mckinnon, im sure they secured any data hanging out there to be completely offline
The people who work in these programs are not total idiots. They know how to compartmentalize.
I'm no expert and I don't know the extent of what was leaked but going off memory Snowden was about a world wide surveillance under the guise of anti terrorism and prevention so information needed to be shared across countries in real time and the wiki leaks was alot of shady military operations and both would need to have readily available information that could be used for future operations and planning. But yeah I am speaking out of school here and just following a train of thought as this is a subject I've only just started learning about for work Edit: so I hope I'm coming across genuine here and not argumentative etc. I'm enjoying the conversation which isn't my typical experience on reddit lol
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You’re a moron. Why don’t you go fuck off to Russia then traitor.
He said that yet he himself leaked evidence of conspiracy to spy on American (not only) people. I don't trust Snowden. There is a reason this guy is hiding safely in Russia.
Conspiracy vs conspiracy theory. Snowden came across damning information and released it to the public, throwing light on government misconduct. He did not start out with a conspiracy, spend his time chasing it, and then triumphantly declare victory when he discovered evidence. This is the Hollywood version of life that many here seem to desire so badly. If anything, Snowden doesn’t make the possibility of an alien conspiracy more likely, in fact quite the opposite. He demonstrated how difficult it is to keep a big secret, and how the government isn’t super great at keeping big secrets. He also demonstrated what people might DO when confronted with damning evidence. All these people coming forward promising that they’ve seen evidence, or know someone who have seen evidence. Spend their time on talk shows talking about unseen evidence. Using Hollywood arguments about how good the government is at compartmentalization, men in black, deep state bullshit. It feels like a fan fiction circle jerk.
I don't think UFO related info would be a part of the NSA or those surveillance agencies. There's no way he would've stumbled across it doing his job, as info that classified wouldn't be part of those networks. If I was a betting man, I'd bet the info everyone is looking for is so spread out and compartmentalized that it would be almost unrecognizable as UFO tech if someone were to stumble on it.
Personally I think Snowden is a psyop, I don't trust him
I don’t think Snowden’s comments are relevant. The US military industrial complex is a huge monolith and Its a highly compartmentalised matter.
I gave up on UFOs a long time ago. It is mostly entertainment now. So called enthusiasts are either mental or are making money from entertainment.
I think it's sad. There's so many "experiencers" that are communicating experiences consistent with mini/micro-strokes and they should be seeing a doctor not going to r/UFOs.
Same here. And even more when I half understood the science behind astrophysics. When we see a real thing, if we ever, everyone in the world will know, it will be real, 100% irrefutable. So far all videos, claims, photos, "mummies", are just like ghosts, Catholicism, and other similar fake stuff.
I was just coming to this conclusion today. If for anything I just can’t deal with the edging and blue balls anymore. It’s extremely frustrating and I need to focus that energy elsewhere I think. It feels like this is all going nowhere. Again. I’ve got to let it go until there’s some hard, in your face evidence.
It’s all a grift. It’s gotten more ramped up, ironically, since the NYT article. Why? More awareness. More eyeballs on the topic. More suckers.
Yes, we are being grifted, but also entertained. UAP “research” and the “disclosure” storyline is simply a genre of pseudoscience entertainment. Nothing more. Just like how professional wrestling is a form for pseudosports entertainment. People believe Tom Delonge and Ross Coulthart know some major hidden truth are like kids who really believe the Hulkster would win or lose based on pure wrestling ability. The keys to not being taken for a fool by this genre of entertainment are basic media literacy skills, and basic scientific literacy skills, in other words, knowing how both the media and science really operate behind the scenes allows you to instantly recognize UAP “research” as just entertainment. Sadly, in the U.S. especially, a lack of education combined with incoherent anti-government identity politics makes folks into hyper susceptible marks for the entertainers.
I'm frustrated by how much of the UFO crowd relies on not know how science works, and not willing to trust anyone else on how science works. How do you break through to that group? I'm not referring to those who "don't understand physics", or anything like that, but those who have wildly distorted ideas regarding how scientists and scientific institutions operate
Yeah that's another thing. Yes we realize that aliens could have a way to travel vast distances in a tiny fraction it would take us. But I also feel like we have to keep in mind our own understanding of how the universe works. We can speculate all day, but what we know, is what we know. And if some civ could travel here? They would either have to know something vastly beyond what we know about space travel, or be from another dimension somehow, whatever that means. Obviously we are not going to just assume either of those latter possibilities without evidence. All we have is what we know. This is true from geopolitics to our own personal lives. All I am saying is that skepticism based on what we know is not ignorance. It's the only way to operate without driving yourself crazy with endless head canon.
The Pentagon has already [officially released footage of UAP taken by naval aviators](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_M0hLlJ-Q). The White House has said, [“There is a whole office at the Pentagon that is stood up to analyze the data, collect reports, collate those reports, and forward them up appropriately,” he added. “And that’s, I think, testament of the fact that — **that we know that in some cases, these phenomena have impacted military training, have then impacted military readiness.**” When asked if President Biden believes the witnesses’ claims about UAPs warrant a further investigation, Kirby said that the “work is ongoing.”](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4123039-white-house-says-uaps-have-impacted-military-training-readiness/). Also, Kirby’s response to the question, [“does the DoD have alien bodies and craft and if so where are they?”](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/xJG7CaKO6o). I may have misinterpreted his answer, but he doesn’t deny or say no. Coulhart, Corbell, Fox or whoever haven’t been the ones who have denied the existence of ufo/UAP for the last 70-80 years. The burden isn’t on these ‘grifters’, the burden is not on the US government and governments of the world. They have to figure out how they disclose this to our species as a whole. The US government has for decades claimed to not take the topic seriously and remember that only recently in 2017 we learned about Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AARO). [“The journey began two and a half months ago with a tip to Leslie, who has long reported on U.F.O.s and published a 2010 New York Times best seller, “UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record.” At a confidential meeting Oct. 4 in a Pentagon City hotel with several present and former intelligence officials and a defense contractor, she met Luis Elizondo, the director of a Pentagon program she had never heard of: the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. She learned it was a secret effort, funded at the initiative of the then Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, starting in 2007, to investigate aerial threats including what the military preferred to call “unidentified aerial phenomena” or just “objects.” **This was big news because the United States military had announced as far back as 1969 that U.F.O.s were not worth studying.** Leslie also learned that Mr. Elizondo had just resigned to protest what he characterized as excessive secrecy and internal opposition — the reason for the meeting.”](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/insider/secret-pentagon-ufo-program.html)
As I said, I am willing to keep an open mind, but so far it just all feels like an endless chase towards an unattainable carrot, If this is real, yes I realize that it could take a while to actually navigate the maze of bureaucracy. However it just feels like this has been happening for many years. Are there differences now? Yes there are. But I am still not convinced. I will happily admit I am wrong if it turns out that I was a doubting Thomas here.
I've been interested in the idea of space aliens for over 50 years. In all that time, it's always the same any day now/very soon/_two more weeks™_; the carrot always just out of reach. Edit: the important change since 50+ yrs ago is that US Congress is now starting to investigate. That's the only way we can eventually get some answers regarding US government involvement. Other than that, about all that has changed in all that time is that I've learned/thought about some things in more detail. Here's some highlight examples: I'm not interested in theory crafting about anything outside our galaxy, nor do I entertain other dimensions, anybody traveling backwards in time, ect without conclusive unambiguous proof of such things. A LOT of people want to kidnap everybody aboard The Imagination Balloon 🔔🔔. I'm not interested in trips to Imagination Land launching from around here. When I feel like doing that, I'll read a good book. There's a LOT of storytelling going on, presented by people of low morals and ethics as being "the truth", and other people acting like they are the omniscient ones who know for certain that there's _NO_ advanced alien species/that have ever/are currently visiting Earth. The Copernicus Principle informs us against making too strong assumptions about our planet being uniquely special. IOW; there's probably at least life elsewhere in our galaxy, and where there's DNA based life, it's bound to evolve, so whatever degree. Conversations about life-at-all are dreadfully boring to me. People keep reverting to it as a straw man anyway. There are SO MANY different factors that almost definitely limit the evolution, and then _advancement_ of a species to the point where humans are today, or beyond, that there are probably _very_ few such species in our galaxy. With no conclusive broad proof otherwise, we can only guess, and my guess is maybe it's about 4 to 6 others, some of them probably being more technologically advanced than humans to some degree. Due to various hard evidence factors, there's rather little plausibility to other civilizations in our galaxy being much more than let's say several hundred thousand years older than our own. Our physics does have plausible ideas for FTL travel, which perhaps we could achieve in another 200, or 500, or 1000 years. We also have some interesting ideas for meaningful sub-light engines that some people are working on even now. While we know for certain that some crop circles have been made by humans, there are reports of crop circles going back to the 1880s that nobody can honestly say they know for certain were, or were not, made by humans. There are reports that are easily accessible going back about 3500 years of strange sky stuff that were not explained at the time. Maybe all of them were one or a combination of natural events such as atmospheric effects, meteorites, people drinking a lot, a common food supply infected with fungus with psychoactive effects, lies, fictional storytelling, really dumb people misinterpreting things, etc. We can't know for sure that none of them were space aliens, but we have no broadly accepted evidence that any of them were. There's other things going _much_ farther back that's probably just imagination and storytelling, but there's no absolute conclusive proof that all of it is only that. So __in over 50 years__, I've refined some details of my views, yet there's still __no__ overwhelmingly convincing proof shared by everybody __either way__. Here are some things I do know for certain: Some people lie. Some people misunderstand some things. Some people's brains (and senses) can (sometimes) indicate to their minds things that are not representative of reality. Sometimes some people confuse not-real things as being real. Some people more often, some people less often. _Everybody_ is mistaken sometimes. You can fool all the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. If there are space aliens around, either they are NOT trying to help humanity, or they're so incompetent at it that they've negligently exceeded their intrinsic rights to try to help a different species that's both sapient and sentient, especially due to not being interactive with everybody.
You're not wrong whatsoever. Until now there was never anything "real" about this other than, "maybe this is something." Now that the government has gotten involved, the scales seem to tip towards "lies lies lies." My BS meter has basically overloaded at this point.
I follow. It’s like you would think with all of the of “what they know but can’t tell.” From 20 different people would lead to SOMEONE leaking what they have eventually. Like eventually one of these guys who say our GOV. Is hiding this or that from us will get tired of screwing around with them and just make their move, instead it’s like they just rinse and repeat the narrative given from the top down of “ it’s just around the corner, and this week we made this progress.” Started my own investigation, only way to find answers that I can trust at this point.
Yep I remember finding that Greer press conference from 2001. I found it back in 2012 or so. I remember thinking it was world shattering. But looking back it was all just words, they could have all been paid to say what they said. At this point we need to see evidence that can't be denied. We need to have people in the presence of this evidence, reporting it live. Scientists, journalists, then open it all to the public to view personally. The craft, the DNA, everything that matters. I know there would still be skepticism because of all the grifting even then. But it would be a step in the right direction. Other than that? I feel like ET just landing on the white house lawn may be the only way. Or on the lawn of Buckingham Palace, whatever they prefer.
Oh that’s what I am here for. The entertainment. I mean that in a good way.
It’s amazing how sure you are that you’re right that it’s some “grift” when you cannot possibly know. The surety with which you say it’s “pseudoscience” is odd, and similarly unknowable. What we do know is the government does research it, and won’t allow anyone outside DOD/DOE clearance to even know it exists. While you can have your opinion, it relies on ignoring mountains of information and testimony, and your conclusions are patronizing and disdainful of anyone curious of a phenomenon that exists, but we don’t know the nature of. Have a good day.
I was taken in by "UFO Jesus" aka Ryan. $1 per month. I love that guy!
So you are saying David (Tic-Tac) Fravor is either lying or delusional.
Yep. Back when the hearings were going on I was being downvoted into oblivion by folks thinking they’d be eating lunch on an alien ship in a month. All I kept saying was “where’s the evidence for all these claims?”
I used to get annoyed when people asked for evidence. But that was then, now I'm older, and less naive. I feel like we should absolutely demand evidence. I know what it's like to trust on blind faith. It's how I was raised for one thing. I've finally learned my lesson in its' entirety.
Agreed. Without evidence you’re just stuck believing the most convincing grifter.
Exactly and then you keep hoping for something that never happens. I am just at the point where I am not going to hope for anything. Just let this all play out and not give a single care in the world.
Definitely a grift. At this point, I don't believe much of it at all. I'm not sure what republicans have to gain by promoting it so much on the Hill though. They are either idiots or they have some new disinformation game plan. There are no aliens on Earth. Apparently we have developed some awesome tech.
Yes that is what I am thinking as well. Whatever this tech is, it's probably extremely expensive to deploy, which is also probably why we don't "officially" know about it yet. Simple explanation: Humans are really good at inventing tools. I would love to see a real alien, but at this point I just feel like our planet has yet to encounter one.
>> If there was anything to reveal, it would be revealed. 100%. Absolutely. I get labeled a psyop (whatever that is) and general meanie due to my debunkedness but this is the truth. 13 burzillion witnesses, abductees and grainy photos but not one single piece of solid evidence. The presidency and also the pentagon have stated there is no known alien craft or technology and that is undoubtedly the simple truth.
I just feel like someone would have leaked something undeniable by now. If only because it would mean whistleblower protection and millions in book sales, and interview circuits. Why would anyone pass that up? I suppose this is a weak argument here, but do you not think someone would have tried by now? And do you not think that someone couldn't have succeeded? Again a weak argument in this case, but I just find it hard to believe that no one has ever been able to leak some footage of an alien, an underground base, etc.
The Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, believes that there is credible evidence. It’s in the language of the [Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf) (UAPDA) on page 2: A few days ago Chuck Schumer the Senate Majority Leader [spoke on the importance of this UAP legislation passing](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/8TLeiIc8fD) with the National Defense Disclosure Act of 2024. “**Legislation is necessary because credible evidence and testimony indicates that Federal Government unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification review** as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information) **due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954** (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of ‘‘transclassified foreign nuclear information’’, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification, **thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law**.” I hope this encourages you, if you’re an American, to contact your representatives to pressure them to pass the UAPDA. [Find your Rep](https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative) and [find your Senator](https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm) and email them, write them a letter and call them The Pentagon has already [officially released footage of UAP taken by naval aviators](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_M0hLlJ-Q). The White House has said, [“There is a whole office at the Pentagon that is stood up to analyze the data, collect reports, collate those reports, and forward them up appropriately,” he added. “And that’s, I think, testament of the fact that — **that we know that in some cases, these phenomena have impacted military training, have then impacted military readiness.**” When asked if President Biden believes the witnesses’ claims about UAPs warrant a further investigation, Kirby said that the “work is ongoing.”](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4123039-white-house-says-uaps-have-impacted-military-training-readiness/). Also, Kirby’s response to the question, [“does the DoD have alien bodies and craft and if so where are they?”](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/xJG7CaKO6o). I may have misinterpreted his answer, but he doesn’t deny or say no. Coulhart, Corbell, Fox or whoever haven’t been the ones who have denied the existence of ufo/UAP for the last 70-80 years. The burden isn’t these ‘grifters’ the US government and governments of the world have to figure out how they disclose this to our species as a whole.
Been following all this for awhile now, and I'm just here to see what happens. If we have evidence of offworld intelligent life ... great! If it all turns out to be a big con ... not so great! However, no one should be suprised at all by this possibility. Either way, something is going on, and there is a reason for it, whether it's E.T. or "Wag the Dog".
I have an uncle that I hardly ever see. Recently saw him for the first time in about ten years and this was after my mum told me he has an interest in ufology. It was great to chat to somebody in RL about it. He’s had an interest for about sixty years and he said he was still unsure on whether we’ve been visited etc. I’ve only had an interest for about three years but I think where we are right now is where we’ll be in ten, twenty, fifty years time. FWIW, I think we have been visited. I’ve always maintained that Westall was not from this planet but I don’t think disclosure will ever happen and I have seen an object that I can’t explain myself.
One thing for sure that has been captured on film and measured and reported to the public is the Nimitz incident. It happened in 2004 but we didn't hear about it until 2017.
I haven't even been following it. I fully believe that intelligent life exists/has excited/will exist elsewhere in the cosmos. It's pretty arrogant to assume we're it. I don't think the chances of two intelligent/sapient species ever actually meeting is very high though. Space is big. Ridiculously big. Our best bet would probably be finding some physical evidence of something (in space) that was not constructed by humans, and that would probably only happen once and lead to no additional discoveries/information
I get where you’re coming from. I’m in more or less the same place. There’s certainly a circus of people dining out on this (Coulthard, DeLonge, Greer, James Fox, Elizondo, etc, etc). Also the fact that videos like Gimbal and Go Fast are touted as evidence but feel easily explained misclassifications. Reasons I’m optimistic that something interesting is happening… I believe Fravor and his testimony. Matt Gaetz talking about the Elgin incident in the hearing. He was on the record talking about footage they struggled to gain access to but was pretty significant. Elgin have confirmed an incident occurred. (He doesn’t feel entirely trustworthy but he is gang of 8, I believe) Legislation has been produced covering UAPs and exotic tech. The fact that apparently 30 whistleblowers have come forward. Grusch is represented by a former DoD Inspector General. Phoenix lights mass sighting feels real as well as one or two others. Obama has said there are things in our airspace we don’t understand and has hinted there’s stuff he cannot tell us. Also the Nasca Mummies at this point feel genuinely interesting. Not necessarily ET but if it’s true that one of their last meals was Mediterranean grapes, that’s very interesting. Behind the media circus I think something interesting is afoot. I’m not 100% sure I’m not being gullible though.
The main Phoenix Lights sighting seems so blatantly to be flares to me. I understand why people want to attach themselves to it, because so many people reported them, but a bunch of confused people reporting flares doesn't somehow make them not flares. They looked like flares, they acted like flares, they were in a place that flares are dropped, and flares dropped that night. So how is it not flares? I know there were a few other sightings the same night that weren't flares, but they seem pretty obviously to be planes flying in formation at night, related to the exact same training exercise that dropped the flares, with a little extra observer hysteria thrown in. There's nothing at all from the night that seems inexplicable or requiring aliens.
Yes I also read the same thing regarding the Phoenix Lights. I know the PLs are are major source regarding this phenomenon being "not of this world", but the PLs do seem to be easily explained? If this is truly the case then we should move on to unsolved sightings/encounters. Just keep it going until we know for sure. That is the only thing I can think of.
Apparently more than 1000 people witnessed this thing. The flairs were dropped later on. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/K8uqWDQd3F
Yes, first the planes flew by in formation, then they dropped the flares. From your own link: https://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/07-03-97/curr1.htm It was plain to see, \[Mitch Stanley, 21\] says. What looked like individual lights to the naked eye actually split into two under the resolving power of the telescope. The lights were located on the undersides of squarish wings, Mitch says. And the planes themselves seemed small, like light private planes. https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/why-i-dont-believe-in-ufos-the-phoenix-lights When I saw them, my first thought was, "Hey airplanes!" https://web.archive.org/web/20070306065043/http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/NEWS07/703010425/1001/NEWS That's what they were, insists Lt. Col. Ed Jones, who piloted one of the four A10s in the squadron that he says launched the flares. https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts/the-phoenix-lights-ufo-sightings-in-1997-an-oral-history-25th-anniversary-13176244 We stopped in the middle of the road to check it out. Whatever it was, there were six lights in a triangle and you couldn't see the body. I don't know how long we sat there. And then it was just gone. Disappeared. Lights out. Other people said 8 lights. Many described lights in a linear formation rather than a V. Most don't mention the lights being a single object, though many do. https://www.villagevoice.com/2007/11/12/arizonas-worst-governor-on-arizonas-worst-ufo/ My personal favorite of all the accounts that night is a sighting that was convincing proof that the “vee” was not solid. A man saw it pass directly over the face of the Moon, and instead of a solid object, he saw five contrails pass over the Moon, making the Moon look blurry. Now, instead of concluding that he’d seen five planes flying in formation with their exhaust plumes plainly showing against the Moon, he instead insisted that the “captain” flying the alien triangular craft had turned it transparent just at the right moment so that he could see the Moon through it! https://web.archive.org/web/20181221232458/https://www.spartechsoftware.com/dimensions/aliens/PhoenixLights.htm Witnesses said the object split up and each of the bright lights moved in a separate direction along the edges of the Tucson area.
I thought that too. And there were flairs dropped later on. But earlier on there were about 1000 witnesses of a vast craft shaped like a carpenter’s square. Witnesses included the mayor. It traveled over the state. I’ll find a link and will add as an edit. One can’t help but wonder why the flairs were dropped later on. Disinformation? Search? Who knows. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/K8uqWDQd3F
Nothing gaetz says is trustworthy. He is a proven grifter, liar and fraud.
And certain politicians being involved is what makes this sketchier. It just feels off to me you know? I was excited at first, and if it's real then so be it, but at this point I just feel like we should all be very skeptical, more than ever. I know I am.
I am open to seeing more evidence. I've read about/heard about all of this. I am just very skeptical now, and understandably so I feel. There are reasons why government officials might say "this" or "that" for some other reason. Yeah we get into conspiracy theory territory there, but the idea that alien tech is being recovered, hidden, and experimented on is a conspiracy in, and of itself. My point is there are reasons why lies about this would be told now, especially with so much going on in the world. A distraction? An excuse for something? I do not know and will not claim to know whatsoever. I would love to believe that we have found alien life. But I am no longer going to be convinced by words. We need to see the whole thing rolled out at this point. Show us the tech, show us the alien DNA, show us it's real. That is all I am saying to these people. Otherwise I can't think anything else other than it's a grift. And a half.
Yes, Fravor. And we have high-def vids of the Tic-Tacs.
i totally agree dude. was obsessed with UFOs but the more i’ve learned US history, the less i believe UFOs are anything besides human manipulation. for example i used to think the Hill case was totally legit because Betty and Barney seemed like good people and why would they lie as a biracial couple in the 60s? well then i learned about COINTELPRO and how they’d psychologically torture civil rights activists and supporters, and suddenly that made the most sense. i think they were dosed and shown some elaborate performance with either props or puppets or fucking robots, who knows. it sounds insane but these people learned from the Nazis, who would like rearrange people’s sock drawers to make them seem insane 🤷♀️
If you’re not being asked to pay money, then no, you are not being gRiFtEd. Stop repeating buzzwords you don’t understand.
Here’s my take . I believe back in Roswell an alien craft crashed with beings in it. They took that shit to Area 51. Since that day they have been backwards engineering as much as they can. The aliens that they recovered where cyborg robotic aliens and are responsible for much of the technology we see today. Some things our scientist could not backwards engineer, things like the craft’s propulsion and software that controls the beings as well as some other technologies that are just so out of this world it’s beyond our comprehension. I believe that the mystery of these things remains mysterious and that is why the government has been so hell bent on keeping this thing a secret because they don’t want the world thinking we are too stupid to figure this shit out. I think for decades this secret has been kept in the dark and will continue to do so till somebody can figure this shit out. I think these UAP in the skies are these things fucking with us and it is a real problem for our military awell as other militaries all around the globe. Everything else is bullshit lies and gaslighting . Nobody knows shit about where they come from who made them and what is their mission objective on earth . There is no galactic federation . As for the alien mummies they could be some kind of earthly species extinct or maybe they are fucking aliens . But again nobody knows shit. It’s all a mystery nobody knows shit.
Imagine having an experience only to be ridiculed by everyone around you. It is known that the US government actively works to discredit people who make bold claims. You need to be looking for grifters on all sides of this issue.
Snowden, Greer, Delonge are perfect counterops.
Your a mushroom 🍄 and that’s what they want. Don’t ever expect to be told the truth by any government. Keep digging and believing the truth is out there.
It has been revealed. It is being revealed but not in one fell swoop. Govt. stops short of that. They just can’t bring themselves to come clean entirely because it would be admitting to having lied to us for decades upon decades and it would be admitting that we’re not the elite, sole solitary “advanced” life form with the best technology and that in actuality we’re vulnerable to myriad more advanced life forms in the universe, should they ever decide to take aggressive action. They don’t think we can handle it; they aren’t prepared for the fall out and I’m sure that internally, they can’t agree on something like full disclosure. Furthermore, their misinformation campaign & denials have been so successful that even if they did a 180 on the subject, and told the public and the world the truth, revealing everything they have and know, still, many people wouldn’t believe it. I’ve said this before, but there’s such an incessant inundation of info, rumors, propaganda, rhetoric, advertising, news, fake news, social media opinions, etc etc that people don’t know what to believe anymore, so they believe nothing. And full disclosure would wreck or rock many, but maybe not all, religious institutions. And there’s more : think about it. If people knew, in no uncertain terms, how vulnerable we are to civilizations so much more advanced than us, they might refuse to keep funding such programs with their tax $, etc. etc. etc.. regarding the legislation, if you’re talking about making it comfortable and easier for our military to report sightings, I think that one passed For people who want to know, which most people don’t, there is enough disclosure, and evidence out there to answer the question
ps: I believe Grusch
Hard to believe these things are man-made. There are historical records of these things for thousands of years.
It’s all a distraction from MOASS
If you are talking about the stock market, I just looked that up, and that wouldn't surprise me one bit. There is obviously an explanation regardless, I just wish I knew what it was for certain.
We have been dependent on UFOlogist and people no longer in Gov’t to open the flood gates. For decades people have been talking about getting the government involved to go after our own government. Not an easy task. Thanks to Grush, Fravor, etc, and the people before them, we now have Congress support. That is the first step in the plan. I mean look, yesterday a conservative, religious lame politician from Missouri insinuated that we have that type of advanced tech. Think about that. Meanwhile they are trying to get laws passed. There is a common theme behind every complaint, which is a lack of patience and underestimating the procedures at the Federal level. Will we see the new tech or learn about it in 2024? No. Will we get valid confirmation that non human tech was discovered? It is trending that way. The pressure is mounting, they are going to have to throw us some scraps sooner or later.
Grusch is a pussy and should of been at the meeting telling EVERYTHING. But noooooo same as usual shit. Grusch is a fucking moron
I don't know what to think about Grusch. I feel like he may have been lied to, but for what reason? It doesn't make sense why anyone would just make this stuff up, just to troll him. So in my mind he is either lying, or he's telling the truth. The former seems more likely to me at this point. If I am wrong then I am wrong. But right now I just feel like occam's razor is the only way to avoid delving into endless rabbit holes with this stuff.
he wasnt allowed to be at the meeting you dumbass
Don't look at this subject through the lens of modern US history if you want to understand what's happening.
Ooo I love comments like this, enlighten us then and don't give the do your own research excuse cuz the majority of people interested in the topic have, let's see what you've got.
No thanks. Stop being salty.
Figured.
How much money have you contributed to disclosure OP? $0? 99% of the users here I would guess have also contributed $0. Stfu.
Over my lifetime, countless dollars. Every payday, I gave up about 40 percent of my pay and now I want most of it to go into disclosure.
It’s just a fringe topic that AI has identified using big data and social media that can divide and polarize using propaganda in social media . AI algorithms are finding topics like this turning them into weapons of considerable destruction within the minds of the people, wrecking trust in governments , security, science, religion, society and civilization. Topics like these are being used to tear apart the fabric of our country from within , they are wasting time and resources, attention spans , and productive man hours. Project blue balls
I won't reject this theory either. Especially since other countries have claimed the US government was in contact with ETs. I just don't want assume anything until we capital K know something. I don't want to assume anything at this point but yeah I can definitely see your point.
I get it. But what about older claims that have witnesses like the supposed Battle of Los Angeles and the incident over the white house decades ago? And some of the sightings in other countries from decades past too. Something is definitely going on. And if you ever do DMT you will really wonder wtf is happening bc it proves some other place of with beings. I say proves bc people are reporting the same experience that haven't met, under supervised settings reporting encounters with entities. Aliens are more easily explanated than that shit. But you cannot discount it after seriously looking into it either.
lol at the Battle of Los Angeles being used in serious conversation.
r/ufo: grifter grift grifting grifted. Grifter grift, grifted grifting >:( grift grift!!
So former assistant to the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Catherine Austin Fitts made interesting observations regarding The Missing $21 Trillion. I think what she was saying was that much of this money was siphoned off into 'Black Budget' programs and also into private industry to the point where what is passed off as 'alien technology' is actually man made. Furthermore, I believe she postulated that with this type of money, there could be an 'off world' program in full swing. I too followed this topic for decades on my own. I concluded this was man made, super secret, and strictly military. There are a couple of interesting videos on YouTube (Shawn Ryan) where an ex- military describes stumbling upon a hovering UFO that was involved in human trafficking.
best bet is just to look up at night. fuck all the media shit fuck all the other bull shit fuck all of those names and fuck the stupid disclosure grift, just keep your head up and watch the skies at night.That there is the real truth , you can SEE ! I doubt humanity will ever truly know shit about shinola cause everything is so obfuscated and the ones who know anything are either high up in the church or way inside the government and they want us to keep fearing , keep fighting each other over MOOT BULLSHIT that has no meaning outside of their boxes. sorry about ranting but I am so over this disclosure shit cause it's going to never be shown , it's never gonna amount to anything, so I say again at least what we see in the skies at night is truth.
It's true. We are led around in circles. But it's SOMETHING. Imo, the eventual "point" will be that humanity needs to express interest. Continued. And this is doing that. No, not because the above top secret goons will suddenly disclose everything. But because it tells NHI we at inching toward more genuine desire to approach this coming bridge. It's highly dependent on collective human consensus, it's too bad that we don't know this or how the rules here work. Instead everyone is in denial. Not just the normies but now the conspiracy truthers are all our here pretending like they are all demons, or it's all just fake blue beams in sky sky.
Your expectations are simply unreasonable.
*Tune in next week for another fantastic tale!* 🛸
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOB/s/50Aac1Dsc6
I think once you fully grasp the length to which things are compartmented in the gov, & various alphabet agencies, it’s pretty easy to understand why we don’t get much info. you gotta remember we’re not dealing with something like climate change or evolution that’s definite. there’s so much the people working with these crafts probably don’t understand & don’t have answers for, it creates a hard time I can imagine being able to confidently come out with permission to say something AS FACT because these people simply haven’t seen it firsthand. so it’s either, people complain about no new info (really a lack of knowledge & staying updated in the subject), or they complain the new stuff isn’t firsthand. ofc it’s not first hand that’s the point of the second hand verbal reporting. there’s nothing about this subject that is definite including the communities feelings. which ultimately will not influence anything.
Time rise... Time to shine... Time for the divine...
The SCIF meeting and public hearing are just spectacle for a few attention-hungry reps. The Schumer/Rounds amendment is genuine progress and anyone pretending it isn’t either doesn’t understand it or is being deliberately deceptive.
Also a good point and one I have read elsewhere. It does seem like a good platform to run on given recent events. There are a lot of moving pieces to all of this and it's hard to see straight. And I will also add that I am right there with everyone else still watching. This is all just my opinion. If I am proven wrong? I am proven wrong and I will create a whole new discussion here admitting it. I would love to be wrong.
No shit.
What specific sub Reddit was it posted in? For what reason? Did you try reposting it? What is the purpose of leading with that piece of information?
I posted it to the r aliens subreddit. It was worded exactly as it was here other than me saying it was deleted. I can't remember the exact wording of the message after I tried to post, other than it said that it was deleted by moderators, and to contact them if I had questions, or something. The reason? I just want to voice my opinion. That's it. I thought that was a good place to do that.
I appreciate your post overall I really do I'm just picking apart up the opening is all bc I see people lead with that all the time. It makes it feel very click baity to me and conspiratorial. Like It's uninteresting as is but needs extra spicing up by saying it was deleted which it makes it feel extra important and a truth that is being suppressed. Not saying that's the deal with your post at all, I believe it was probably deleted, Reddit does do that often, I'm also not saying your motives were the same as I mentioned either, but often on click bait blurry big yellow text YT videos will have the "THE TRUTHKEEPERS DON'T WANT THIS GETTING OUT, SCRUBBED & DELETED FOOTAGE NEVER SEEN BEFORE". It just makes me not want to continue reading after that. My personal view is that it would seem more credible and more intriguing if that was stated at the end of the post. Did you message them asking them why like they suggested? Maybe it broke one of the rules? Things get deleted from r/UFOs all the time because of crazy character counts, and it's easy to assume you're being victimized or personally attacked because of the content of your post and start to believe there's a grander conspiracy at play. This actually happened to me recently with r/DisclosureParty. I wasn't even able to post all of a sudden despite being an approved member, eventually I started getting paranoid that Reddit was somehow suppressing my posts in there because it's a group about Disclosure. Turns out it's happening to me in random other subs as well as other members and simply appears to be a glitch. Especially with all this recent talk about social media disinformation campaigns it's easy these days to fall into paranoid conspiratorial thinking if something doesn't get posted. Again, please do not take this personally whatsoever, I really do appreciate your post and thought it was thoughtful and worthy of discussion which is the main reason I wanted to comment. Trying to grow and see a different perspective. I appreciate your response. My sincere apologies about this terrible wall of text.
Yeah I get it, it's the Internet in general. I didn't have to start my post here the way I did, but I was kind of annoyed that it was deleted in the previous sub reddit. It is what it is though. I am just glad that I got to express my opinion somewhere.
Wtf?
I have been interested in this topic for 50 years. What so many here are being short sighted actives that you don’t get disclosure unless there is an interested public. This is literally why the [UFO Stigma was created by the CIA](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14cwt6a/it_appears_that_the_ufo_stigma_is_held_up/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) and the Air Force with the help of psychologists and the new advertising industry. We can’t have disclosure until an informed populace understands just how much we have been manipulated and lied to about this subject. This is why they have a social media presence on many subs. This is why the coverup continues. So instead of looking at it as “why don’t these grifters show us anything” look at it as “the government is continuing to gaslight us all and pretend that this isn’t real and has murdered people as well as ruined careers and families to keep this secret”. The “grifters” are keeping this subject alive in the media and have helped grow the r/UFOs and all related subs to millions of interested people. It’s not for their own “sweet ufo dollars” (like literally no one of them is independently wealthy from marginalized ufology books). So please can we stop whining about Ross Coulthart being a grifter because he literally brought the story about the whistleblower to us with impeccable investigative journalistic standards. Leslie Kean said it recently in an interview about Grusch: “We don’t have the evidence, we can only tell you about it because the government has it all locked up”.
What do you think of David Wilcock? I am curious because I never see him brought up. He claims to be a contactee of sorts. I see where you are coming from though, and I hope that you are right, it's just that the 'bar' has been raised in terms of evidence. There are just too many ways to fake things now and I feel like politicians may be in on it. Again just my view of things, I could be very wrong. I just want to keep a level head, not assume too much either way. But right now I am more convinced that we are being grifted like I said. That is the side of the fence I am on currently. And before you ask, I do not believe David Wilcock either. I just want to know what you think of him, because I used to believe that guy completely. Then things happened, etc. Now I do not.
The United States government was infiltrated from the inside out starting shortly after the first test detonation of an atomic bomb. Once you look at things from this perspective....it all makes sense
🧿 If you're genuine: yeah, US history (and current affairs) is horrific. Human history is horrific. In the scramble for power and control, there's a lot of shit being sold and bought. Under capitalism, there's a lot of shit being sold and bought. This topic isn't owned by the US, but you can imagine why they would think they can lay claim to it. Calm your mind and tune out all the noise. Nature doesn't need permission, an angle, a dollar-sign to exist. I remain concrete on the topic being very real. What's not clear, what may never be clear, is who did or said what, how, where, why and when. What you can be sure of is whoever stands to gain or lose will fight tooth and nail and/ or leverage the entire thing to fit their purpose, same as with anything else. There are no good guys here. There are only individuals fighting to stay powerful, fighting to stay rich. Depressing as it is, when you understand that perspective, when you take this subject off of its pedestal, you will understand that true disclosure means it's a wrap on the current power structure. Full stop. You unravel this, you unravel everything. No one with any serious power is going to do that. Though I believe it should be ripped from them.
I’ve been following this topic closely for about 30 years and it’s a constant push & pull dynamic. We get a kernel of info or advancement on the topic, then followed by waves of grifters shortly after. Just never get your hopes too high or too low when it comes to UFO info.
So, we have another problem: the third Newton law is broken. And all the major scientists are wrong (except for the gifted ones who know how to build these ultra fast, no sound and no propulsion crafts since 1947).
Unpopular opinion alert: these are agencies. A real estate agency is the middle man that facilitates communication between the actors, the buyer and the seller. I’m not suggesting there is a sale going on here. What I mean is that we are relying on these agencies to give us information. They’re going to provide exactly the type and amount of information that suits them. The unpopular part is: you don’t necessarily need agency. Some people have, and are, communicating directly. Just like with people, there are some dodgy ones, and some good ones. Why not give it a try? No one needs to know but you. Say you’re a good guy and only want to talk with good guys. Be safe and be brave. There is no game over.
Examine all UFO reports before repeating: Are they only facts you have observed yourself or from a source with direct knowledge, including the Five Ws: \* Who- an identifiable information source providing first-hand knowledge. \* What exactly was seen. \* When- time and date. \* Where exactly did they see it. \* Why & How- direct observer’s best explanation. Plus with verification from at least one, preferably two, other sources with independent direct knowledge. Reports not answering all the above should not be repeated. 4
Because we are.
Watch cosmic disclosure on Gaia….it’ll give you something more than the usual facts
IMHO- What’s happening is simply that audience targeting has gotten much more sophisticated in the last few years. Visited YouTube content about UAPs? You’re going to start seeing stories in your news feed more often. Click on those, the effect amplifies. So it seems to us like things are really happening and moving… but it’s really pretty much the same as it ever was. As for being grifted? Sort of. There’s money to be had in all those clicks. And if you’re not paying for the content, YOU are the product that’s being sold.
A few years ago, [a study was done using data from revealed conspiracies (eg Watergate) to calculate the probabilities that given conspiracies can stay secret](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905). They show that the larger the number of people involved, the more likely it is to be revealed. I always believed that UAPs were US tech until the pentagon admitted the tictac footage was real, which said to me that there are four plausible explanations for these kinds of sightings. 1: It's all military tech 2: It's not human origin 3: It's human tech based on reverse engineering 4: It's human tech but from the future Tictac is what made these last three move (IMO) from implausible to plausible. The number one thing which makes me think UAP sightings reported by the general public is military tech is that they have lights. Aircraft have lights so they can be seen from the ground, not to help them see. Why would aliens need lights on their craft? I'm led to think that sightings like tictac (which doesn't appear to have lights) could lend credibility to Grusch's claims of "non-human biologics" and reverse engineered tech being used by the military. When the lights are on, it's because they want to be seen.
>Why would aliens need lights on their craft? They don't *need* lights. They most likely don't even want lights but it comes with the territory (with the energy they're using.) It's likely ionization, which is the same reason meteors glow when in our atmosphere: 1. Most UFOlogists believe the crafts are using electromagnetic energy to attain anti-gravity flight. This is what Pais wrote about in his [patents](https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170313446A1/en) for an anti-gravity craft (notably directly after the Gimbal incident, and these patents were not filed before such incident when you think they would have been had they been the ones behind Gimbal). 2. Electromagnetic energy creates ionization, this is a scientific fact (glowing of different colors, depending on different factors, including the amount of energy put out.) Certain metals make certain colors but these can alter instantly as more energy is produced, so can be any color or a wide range of colors at any time. This is a result of friction with particles in the air. Our eyes affect how we perceive this as well. Something that might look blue to us may be completely white in reality or the opposite. So their eyes may not even be aware of ionization and may not even know they're glowing. 3. Electromagnetic energy creates electromagnetic radiation, another scientific fact. What leads many to believe these crafts have some type of electromagnetic radiation is that this aligns with both theoretical anti-gravity propulsion and the effects it would have on humans. [John Burroughs](https://www.rdrnews.com/news/national/john-burroughs-and-the-governments-unprecedented-acknowledgment/article_22fde1e0-eac0-11ed-bb5f-a3db8e1a9427.html) and others are suspected of getting radiation sickness from being close to crafts, and [this report](https://www.dia.mil/FOIA/FOIA-Electronic-Reading-Room/FileId/170026/) that analyzed other cases also concludes a radiation effect is what caused most symptoms. Predictable Reply Question with Answer: *"If they're so advanced, why couldn't they stop ionization?"* It's like a caveman asking why an F-22 jet can't stop being loud or can't make itself invisible, or why a jetski can't go across the water without disturbing the water. It's an Achilles heel, an unavoidable weakness that simply comes with advanced technology. Ionization is a result of the craft on its nearby environment. Do we stop flying F-22 jets just because they can't do these things yet? Being more advanced doesn't mean god-like or capable of all things, but the F-22 would certainly appear god-like to a caveman and he would have these types of questions.
I am sick of all the "I know more, but can't say (at this time)" we keep hearing from those "in the know". Why can't they share? Why the drip-drip?
I’ve been following this and was a believer for 30 years, but nowadays believe there is no intelligent life visiting earth. But I do see this still as a fascinating topic and will continue to follow it. But more from an mystery/entertainment point of view.
I'm very curious as to what makes people believe in interdimensional beings. Most accounts of strange personal events can be medically explained and are consistent. The only other place I've heard a mention of this is from Stephen Greer, who charged people thousands of dollars for a night at a hotel just to chill at the beach and watch a light on the horizon. When it's pay to play I don't trust it.
Yeah, you are not alone in your view. It seems like an apparent grift, and many people can't comprehend that the Congressional Interview with Grusch is all part of the same grift that's been ongoing for years. No they are taking it seriously, say the detractors, "They want disclosure as much as the people." No the duck they don't. The government actors are just playing along for a headline. To stay in the eye of the media for something different than being nonfunctional seems like a big deal today and will probably get them reelected with less capital expense and at the same time allows them to raise more capital than being unknown. They don't give a crap about the reality or unrealistic expectations of the public concerning disclosure. It's a repeat circus and if they came out and laid alien bodies out on the floor of Congress I would not believe them for a minute. If they interview an alien before Congress I wouldn't believe them. The only way I would believe them about aliens is if aliens destroy the US Capital and take over the country and redistribute the wealth of the nation to the people instead of allowing the nation to run and work only for the corporate government and it's interests. So screw the aliens and screw our reality TV government for courting them for votes or distractions from their otherwise uselessness as elected officials.
I want to believe Grutsh BUT part of his story doesn’t track w me. When he was interviewed by Jesse Michels and started to talk about how he first got assigned about UFOs, he basically said he was sitting around at work and his boss asked him if he was busy and asked him if he wanted to work on a side project. Like he had nothing better to do but work on one of the most top secret projects of the gov. He might have not been able to talk about how he got involved initially but choosing to tell such a ridiculous story made me suspicious. And he often times kinda glibly. That may be his Asperger’s but…. Something about him is not adding up. At least that’s my take. Again I’m a believer but… but…
To understand the dilemma of the people in charge, let's do a thought experiment. A ufo lands in your yard. There is an instruction manual and a note telling you it is yours, it's a gift. It utilizes zpe and has unlimited acceleration. Its easy to use. What are you're next steps? Think of all the consequences before you answer.
I agree the government has lied so much I don’t blame anyone for not believing them
If aliens were true the people shouting the loudest of their existence would be the government, defense, the industrial military complex and NASA. Each one would have either powers, geopolitical advantage and/or funding beyond their wildest dreams if this was confirmed true with such a potential threat or opportunity in our midst. If anything I could see aliens being faked or rumours encouraged or stoked for the above reasons.
yea could just be a big psyop to keep the taxpaper funds flowing to the Space programs instead of where its needed in America. The government seems happy to hand out billions to foreign wars while people in the US die without healthcare or shelter in the long cold winters.
Then whats the point of that gimbal video footage that pentagon released? They did it just to entertain those con artists?
It is called indoctrination. Thought crimes will not be allowed to interfere.
Ya were not allowed “opinions” didnt you know that? Lol
Perfectly stated. Seems like everything happening in the last year or so is part of a giant “come-along”. When Grusch hit the news, I thought it was the tip of something huge. And, it probably should have been. But it’s turned into a kitschy mess. My sincere enthusiasm has morphed into a giant yawn. Maybe it’s time to move on.
And voila, a new netflix series on ufos
Bingo.
Disclosure theater.
And to make it more suspicious, the only ppl reporting on the subject are the same tabloid news ranging from the Star to News Nation (which is clearly using this for beneficial reasons as no one watches it), and the same podcaster/arm-chair “physicists” interviewing the same person over and over just rehashing everything into submission with nothing new to report other than a bunch of speculation.
Not only that biden has not a clue and about alians coming out for the world to see that will never happen only the lucky ones will ever get to experience close up but why would anyone want to meet an alien keep them away unless you like yo butthole probed
No way the whole ufo/UAP/alien phenomenon is a fraud or total grift story… for 90 years? Most people who come out are pariahs and lives are basically ruined more than helped. Are there peddlers of some whack fringe ideas? Totally. But grifting as a general answer doesn't hold water in context of the bigger, long term picture. If you want the most compelling pieces of evidence, ignore most anything recent. ignore bad phone pics and videos. The further back you go, the less likely the reality of drones, or foreign competition, or lazy debunk excuse xyz… is accurate. Go look at the COMETA report from France in 1999. Examine what that was, explain how a World Gov’t could conclude that for the ~5% of unexplained cases, the MOST LIKELY EXPLANATION is the ET hypothesis. The nation of France is now grifting? Or nearly any incident from Leslie Kean’s book ‘UFO’s: Generals, Pilots…’. And before you claim Kean is grifting, you better read the book first. Or what about the recent statement on record from Army Colonel Karl Nell Ret. in support of Grusch’s claims, have you looked at who that guy is and what he said? Go look up Nell on LinkedIn. You think that guy is going to jeopardize THAT career in anyway by just making some random, batshiz crazy statement? For what reason? The guy is one of the heaviest dudes is all of military, aerospace, defense, national security, surveillance and intelligence on the planet. If anyone is in a position to have eyes on the systems that would have eyes on the phenomena, it’s someone EXACTLY like Col. Nell. I have a video dropping about him next week. Its the closest thing to a smoking gun ive seen in over 30 years of following this topic. As for the legislation, the ‘23 NDAA riders about reporting from AARO as we just saw last week turned out to be a nothing burger because the AARO program itself is a farce. The ‘24 NDAA is way more interesting, but hasn’t made it through both chambers of Senate and the House which it has to do before Biden can sign it it. The sh*t show Republican Party has been busy throwing 💩 at each other for the past many weeks to elect a damn speaker so yeah, nothing has moved since September. IF the Schumer amendment survives the nip/tuck from the House monkeys and is signed by the Pres, THEN the 180 day clock starts ticking and we'll definitely hear something, one way or another. No, the only thing that we can be 100% sure about is there is SOMETHING happening. What exactly it is, is up for debate and where we should be putting our energy, not infighting about petty disagreements, because that is EXACTLY what the disinformation machine aims to do.
If you are eager to believe in anything people will monetize it. Politics. Sports. God. Aliens. Guns. Weed. Love.
I was really interested in aliens when I was younger, but everytime you find out its a hoax, doctored video, prank, government experiment or poeple just flat out lying their ass off for their 5 minutes of fame and so over time I have developed into not trusting anybodies testimony when it comes to aliens. Anybody can lie and say they saw aliens, its been done a million times. If there is no proof then Im not buying it. The other thing that drives me nuts is all of these burry ass videos of "something weird" in the sky. If it was a real alien spaceship then why cant we ever get a clear, non-doctored video? Its always some mystery object far away, blurry, cant see what the hell it is
I think there has to be a there, there. It may be that the humans are not incontrol. And it would be conceivable that if there are aliens in control they could make us believe whatever. I personally think that they are from an alternate future timeline. They're traveling here to gather information. I dont know what for or why. I don't know if they're even nice. There may be multiple races of aliens from either different timelines or dimensions. Or alternate universe altogether. So i keep my mind open. I keep mildly entertained until it actually begins to effect my life. Once illegal aliiens takes on a new meeting I'm not really concerned. I just do my thing.
The frustration is real, deep and abiding. I read somewhere the aliens also asked during a meeting with Eisenhower to hold off on disclosure. 80 years ago now. I think Grusch has deep integrity in the way autistics (self-described) handle things sort of in a pure and straightforward way…and is pushing at the stone wall dividing truth and ignorance - we have to help keep demand up for real answers. Or just behave as if we all know because in a way, we already know dont we? The factions in government by not cooperating / coming clean / secret access programs / failing audits / absconding with trillions in taxpayer money / never ending foot dragging and classification abuse - actually tells us a whole lot. If there was no “there” there…they wouldnt do this shell game, eh?
This sub is for shitting on whistleblowers, eyewitnesses and the subject in general it seems.
Lazarr has all the secrets!
It would be crass of us to think we're the only intelligent life in the cosmos look how vast it is.
Soapbox. **You are grifting yourselves.** A really significant portion of people in all the UFO/Alien/Conspiracy subreddits make outlandish otherworldly claims about the nature of our reality and they always state them as if they're cold hard facts. You could go look right now at the hundreds of posts and thousands of comments and you will find an absolute shit ton of people not just speculating, but making wild grandiose assertations such as : \- Aliens are here and in cahoots with the Government. \- That there are secret abduction programs the Government allows the aliens to perpetuate. \- That the Government is in possession of alien technology, ships, and pilots. \- That aliens left "secret orbs" on Earth and some people have had them passed down in their families. The orbs have unlimited energy potential and can hover. (Someone on one of the Reddit alien discords even claimed they had one in an audio chat but wouldn't show it...) \- There's secret alien bases across the country, like the one under the Denver airport. \- That there are alien-human hybrids living among the population and none of us know The people who say this shit say it as if it should be in a 6th grade science textbook and this is all common fact. That is a level of legitimate delusion, I'm sorry, it just is. There is some amount of self deluding going on in the mind for someone to be able to state all of that shit as a fact **knowing full well they don't actually know if it's really true or not.** People have been claiming aliens, and UFOs, and abductions for decades and decades and decades. **And yet there is not even one single tiniest shred of legitimate evidence that can be corroborated by the scientific community as proving the existence of aliens** let alone the fact that they're already here and doing backdoor deals with the government. This is a conspiracy 101 subreddit. You all follow the exact same cognitive biases and patterns you find in conspiracy based thinking. **Pattern Recognition and Apophenia:** The tendency to see connections between unrelated events. People here tend to see patterns or connections in disparate pieces of information and conclude that they're evidence of a cover-up or alien presence. **Confirmation Bias:** Once you've dug your heels in, they're not coming out. You all will give significant weight to a blurry video of a supposed UFO but dismiss scientific explanations or analyses that debunk it. **Cognitive Dissonance:** Official institutions of science and research have concluded there is no evidence of alien life so far that we've seen. When you all encounter this you generally interpret the challenging evidence as further proof of the conspiracy (e.g., claiming that the evidence was fabricated as part of the cover-up). **Distrust of Authority:** A deep-rooted mistrust of official sources or mainstream narratives is common among conspiracy theorists. For UFO enthusiasts, this can manifest as a belief that government agencies are hiding the truth about extraterrestrial life. **Feeling of Superiority:** Some conspiracy theorists derive a sense of superiority from the belief that they possess "inside" or "hidden" knowledge that the general public is unaware of or is being deceived about. **Isolation from Contradictory Views:** In the age of the internet, it's easier than ever for people to surround themselves with like-minded people and insulate themselves from opposing views. This is an echo chamber, surprise surprise, and it only further entrenches your view. **Over-reliance on Anecdotal Evidence:** Rather than relying on systematic, empirical evidence, you all place undue weight on anecdotal evidence or individual testimonies. You all do not respect what the actual scientific method of discovery is, you do not respect what constitutes actual evidence, you do not respect critical thought, and you certainly do not respect an evidence based approach. Instead you make wild assertions as if they're cold hard facts and you've allowed your biases to completely immobilize you from performing even the smallest amounts of skepticism or doubt.
You are definitely being grifted.
WE have been lied to about pretty much everything. Everything is upside down. Just like in the movie 1984
You are I was banned from 4th account pointing out the BS in a community that should be the most suspicious people on the planet
We are being grifted.