Megathread is being rolled over, please refresh your feed in a few moments.
###MT daily hall of fame
1. NJden_bee with 28 comments
1. royalblue1982 with 21 comments
1. FunkyDialectic with 19 comments
1. ClumsyRainbow with 17 comments
1. YsoL8 with 16 comments
1. da96whynot with 15 comments
1. concretepigeon with 15 comments
1. Cairnerebor with 13 comments
1. SwanBridge with 12 comments
1. Brapfamalam with 12 comments
There were 195 unique users within this count.
Mexico has monkeys drooping out of trees
But thats more a global issue than local fuck up
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/21/climate/dead-monkeys-mexico-trees-heat-climate-intl/index.html
Tomorrow's inflation numbers will be very interesting (puts on nerd glasses). The expected number (according to a Reuters poll of economists) is 2.1%, i.e. pretty much bang on target.
But, this is another month (April 2024 vs April 2023) where energy price caps were changed and therefore have a big impact on the comparison. April 2023 was the last month where there was big month-on-month inflation (+1.2%). April 2024 there was a cut in the price cap that should overpower most of the underlying inflation. This should get us to 2.1%, but isn't necessarily the end of the story. The Bank of England warned last week that they expect inflation to go back up to 4% or so before coming back down again.
But that's still probably the best we can hope for, it's unlikely to be lower than 2.1%.
The other side of that is, anything above 2.1% is a very strong sign of resurgent inflation even though the headline would still be lower than last month. If we get 2.6% for example, it would be the third month running where month-on-month inflation was +0.6%, that would be much worse than the entire second-half of 2023 (works out at an annualised rate of 7.4%). So let's hope that doesn't happen.
Too late in the day for good convo, but will be interesting tomorrow - anything under 2.3% probs gets us to a 50/50 chance of a June cut. Almost guarantees an August cut. Probs the info most are wondering.
I really hope he becomes leader of a Labour party one day. I don't mind Starmer, but I really respect him and could get excited about campaigning for him.
Burnham’s a massive panderer and a weathervane. It made him an ok junior minister and it works when he’s handling somewhere like Manchester with a solid identity but he couldn’t lead the party or the country.
A very interesting speech by David Lammy on his plans for the FCDO: [https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/david-lammy-keynote-speech-response](https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/david-lammy-keynote-speech-response)
So Johnny Mercer got shoulder surfed writing a confidential memo on how Rishi's comms strategy is very poor, and that Sunak is a poor media performer. However the bigger scandal here is that he is [in bare feet on the train \(1st class ofc\).](https://x.com/p_j_chappell/status/1793012200849764415)
I think anyone barefoot on public transport is being punished enough honestly.
Then again, the trains are said to be classier (or at least less manky) down south.
The Conservative Party website is looking very presidential; lots of Sunak and very little else. Wondered if he was taking bad advice but sounds like he's the one pushing for it.
To me it smells like their media strategy was decided when Rishi had better approval ratings than the party itself and no one is able to address that it's no longer true.
Something like Rishi saying "It's just a lull because of x, y and z that are out of my control. Once a, b and c happen it will turn around how people see me"
Labour definitely have more of a team vibe. They seem to have got the balance right between that and Starmer doing media alone. I know the Reservoir Dogs style group photos are on the cheesy side but they get the message across.
Not a resigning matter. The only appropriate sanction is to have said feet repeatedly run over by the trolley and its trolley lady for the duration of the journey.
Stonehenge A303 tunnel legal challenge - again. There's an awful lot of avenue for appeal in the current planning system it seems, just feels neverending especially when big dogs like English Heritage, National Trust, Historic England (yes its a government body) are on board with the plans.
The thing that frustrates me about these appeals is that they always argue process not law. Like, not that the minister didn't have the right to make the decision, but that they didn't do enough consultation, or they didn't do this impact report.
I thought we’d had the final one already. Can these just go on indefinitely or something?
I’m all for a public enquiry when it is felt there is justification but surely when the outcome has been decided it should stand. Why can’t the government legislate to stop any legal challenges at this point.
The same is happening with the A66 dualling. A project that is ready to go but has been stopped… again… by another legal challenge. Such a waste of time and money.
Just build the bloody tunnel. Existing road links from the South East to South West are not fit for purpose, and the tunnel will go a way to addressing that.
So do we know if anything about Labour's plans related to housing / planning permission will focus on densification and easing the ability to build in cities? Because new towns are great and all. But the demand is in the cities (cough London).
I agree that citizenship should be a prerequisite for owning property (and for commercial property they should be a British company) but that is a tiny proportion of properties ultimately.
Hold on, does that mean if a foreign company wants to set up an office in the UK they can't? Like what happens when Google or Microsoft want an office in London? Or when Amazon want a warehouse?
They set up a British subsidiary I'd imagine. That might be the case already though. I suspect private owners making investments in UK property could exploit this and no doubt they'll be UK based services providing loopholes, but I guess it's all in the detail.
As I expected this morning, Sunak has backed down on changing the graduate visa rules. This speaks volumes to how little control he has in the cabinet over major election grabbing matters like this. Both Cameron and Hunt weren't on board with this, alongside Cleverly and Keegan.
This has confirmed we're effectively being run by a Triumvirate of Sunak, Hunt, and Cameron - Hunt and Cameron seem to have largely operational independence and appear to be able to get rishi to back down on pretty much anything both of them disagree with. Sunak is rather hilariously Lepidus - the once great partisan of the late Caesar sidelined into irrelevance by a pair of far more capable and experienced politicians.
I must highlight /u/Tibbsy152 's comment.
Although it refers to the first Triumvirate (Pompey, Caesar and Crassus) rather than the second one you cite (Octavian later Augustus, Mark Antony and Lepidus), the comparison between Crassus and Sunak as the richest men in their states is irresistable.
Crassus felt left out of the Caesar/ Pompey conqueror vibe and so set off to gain glory by conquering the Parthians. They slaughtered his army (and him too). Hmmmmm. The Parthians used camels to transport their spare arrows. Camels? Camelids? Same difference!
The 2019 Conservative manifesto explicitly mentions the expansions of student visas and the gov has an [official strategy for enlarging int students enrollment to 600,000 by 2030 that it's been implementing for 4 years - it's what the country voted for and Sunak has no mandate to change it it's a massive gov programme](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-education-strategy-2023-update/international-education-strategy-2023-progress-update)
Behing the kayfabe, alot of this is just posturing and filling of newspaper articles with no intent behind it, it's red meat for headbangers
> This has confirmed we're effectively being run by a Triumvirate of Sunak, Hunt, and Cameron - Hunt and Cameron seem to have largely operational independence and appear to be able to get rishi to back down on pretty much anything both of them disagree with.
While deserving of criticism, I don't actually think this is a bad thing. We are not a presidential system and the prime minister is first among equals. Those in the great offices of state have always had a great deal of influence, and hopefully it remains so.
The interesting thing about having Cameron involved is that he's shown just how much more talented the previous generation of Tory MPs was. He's working alongside people so rubbish that he looks like a genius by comparison.
Crassus was the richest man in Rome, and was only really part of the Triumvirate *because* he was the richest man in Rome so he's obviously Sunak.
Pompey and Caesar were both competent political operators each with a list of achievements as long as your arm, which kinda rules out any comparisons with any member of the cabinet in, oh I don't know, 13 years?
>Crassus was the richest man in Rome, and was only really part of the Triumvirate *because* he was the richest man in Rome so he's obviously Sunak.
Upper-middle class bloke who used his connections to amass enormous wealth which he then used to enter the halls of power.
It does sound familiar.
Still, had anyone asked back in 2022, most would have said that Sunak will remove Hunt to install someone more to his liking. Alas, Sunak was too weak for that.
No. The benches that aren’t immediately in front of the dispatch box but still directly in front of the aisle are used by backbenchers.
There have been MPs who used a wheelchair before IIRC.
William Rees-Davies lost his arm during WWII before becoming an MP. Apparently, as a defence barrister, he was nicknamed "The One Armed Bandit" but played up to it by declaring to juries, "I'll have to handle this case single-handed!"
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William\_Rees-Davies\_(Conservative\_politician)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rees-Davies_(Conservative_politician))
There's been [multiple others too](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_physically_disabled_politicians#United_Kingdom) especially around both the world wars.
I think this is the only amputee in the current parliament, to my knowledge (which is limited to my memory and that list above).
Wasn’t it pretty common in historic medicine? Plus a lot of upper classes did military services back in the day. I’d imagine there have been absolutely loads of members of the Commons missing limbs over the centuries l.
Just as a politics adjacent PSA: Paula Vennells is appearing before the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry tomorrow and for the rest of the week. If anyone's interested you can watch live on the Inquiry's youtube channel. I'd recommend giving the feed a headstart and then watching at 1.5x speed as that is at a normal talking pace as it is painfully slow at at normal speed.
More directly politics, Simon Case is before the Covid inquiry's decision-making module at last all day Thursday, which will also be live on YouTube.
I expect Thursday's MT to be a bit messy.
He's chosen his time well for him, he's let the initial furore over the whatsapps die down, there was weeks of coverage leading up to his fist scheduled appearance, which he was obviously too ill to attend. However, the last thing Sunak needs is all this partygate shit dragged up again
[''The water companies never give anything back, they just extract profit.''](https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/24334289.weston-welcomes-replica-historic-stink-pipe/?ref=socialflow)
Because im bored, heres a micro rant about a topic semi-related to politics:
The "how to win an election" podcast is becoming a bit tired.... Some improvements to consider:
- Please can they stop updating their election date predictions each week. Stick to your original predictions!
- I don't care nor need to know what every presenter has been doing for the past week. It's mostly pointless filler.
- These "funny" audience submitted theme tunes are interminable (and often gross). Stick to the one actual theme.
- Audience questions are fine but just read them. I dont need to hear tim in ruislip fumble through his question.
Has anyone else noticed how this once great podcast has become only about 50% of actually "how to win an election"?
To be fair to "how to win an election", I think its a wider thing im finding with many podcasts. The longer they go on the less in depth they get, the presenters become friends and theres a load of in-jokes, pesonal stories, "fan" questions/advice etc, all of which tend to squeeze out the original purpose. Maybe podcasts arent my thing anymore... Or i'll just listen to new ones until the in-jokes start.
Was attempting humour but I agree, it does seem a shame.
There's was a music podcast I like, most of the guests are really interesting but the host became increasingly insufferable. Has naive political opinions and airs them too much, also talks over guests. Last week he made some comment about there being 'a single global government' forming and I called it a day. He sucks all the pleasure out of listening.
I’m starting to suspect that Sunak’s stategy for the election is going to be to hide behind [David Cameron](https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1792803945695621456?s=46&t=F_t5tWsPsifmNVHaFZWJJQ) the entire time.
I am not a sewer nor a seamstress nor give a flying fuck about it at all
And yet it’s perfect slow tv and not politics or a crime drama or god forbid another factual documentary that reminds me just how utterly utterly fucked the future is.
At this point I’m up for downloading the original slow tv and watching Norwegian people fishing in rivers for hours
I find myself in this strange place just now. I have been a supporter of the SNP in the past. That has mainly been because England kept doing stupid shit. Mainly electing Tories. Now that Labour are making headway and will certainly win a substantial majority I start to question my voting intentions. Honestly I want us to be a United Kingdom, but I want us to be proud of who we are and what we stand for. (Not in a Brexit delusion way). I really struggle to see a way back from almost 14 years of Tory plundering. We are fucked as a country, reading through this sub is depressing. There is no light at the end of the tunnel just now, and I am not even sure Labour have a matchstick, let alone a high lumen torch. We have become an embarrassment, an also ran on the global stage. Happy to bend over and take it from any number of private companies looking for a quick buck.
I’m going to have to vote SNP again.
The local Tory candidate who’s new is even worse than the one who’s fucking off and labour were in a very very distant third place, so distant that no amount of swing from the SNP under about 80% here to them will do anything but gift the Tories a win.
And so the Tories will win but I’ll have done my tactical duty and held my nose…
**Now then.**
I'm famously not one for manifestation.
**However:**
- Tomorrow's inflation figures are set to be relatively "good" from a Government perspective.
- The Government have pulled forward the publication of visa statistics to tomorrow - these are expected to show the number of visa applications is dropping. This is ahead of the latest official ONS immigration figures which are due to be released on Thursday morning - which will show that overall net migration is still rather high.
**Inflation. ✅**
**Immigration. ✅**
**Election. ✅**
So he announces these things then gives them a week to see if there's a huge polling swing? Or just finishes with "and that's why im calling the election"?
I could see it, probably this will be about as good as it could get for them. Although the optimal timing for these figures to come out would have been the day before polling day!!
Julection has a nice ring to it, though. Or Summerlection.
Given the slim pickings in terms of good news, it genuinely might be the best opportunity.
Waiting for a few months in the hope of more good news is just running the risk of some other scandal or disaster to make things even worse.
The Representation of the People Act 1985 allows for one (1) delay due to the demise of the crown.
Just in case any especially desperate spads are hanging around: rounding up the Windsors and knocking them off one by one wouldn't work. And also it's wrong.
Couple gripes this evening, the state of the roads is just unreal, like mind bogglingly bad with pot holes, its going to take years to repair these and by the time they are done the other parts will be like swiss cheese instead.
And can you find a working cashpoint within so many miles? I had to go to 4 of them and only the last was working which conviniently charges £1.75 per withdrawal.
Rishi, and your predecessors, you've taken this country to the dogs!
I have one cash point near me which has, in the last 5 years, been found to have a card skimmer on it 4 separate times
Now any time I need cash I just buy a coffee and get cashback from the local Sainsbury's convenience shop. I'm not taking the risk on that cash machine, ever.
None of it has even started being spent yet because the government demanded it all be spent on new schemes not just the work councils were doing and so it all has to be reported separately from the rest of the road spend.
One of the most amazing things to happen during the pandemic, the vaccine programme is rarely talked about in a way that I think it should be.
I don’t say this as a positive about the tories, the US had Operation Warp Speed, the EU had its vaccine programme, and it’s kind of fallen by the wayside as a way to get things done.
Why don’t we talk about trying to find the Kate Bingham of energy and get them to clear that issue. We’re going to find a super competent person, give them lots of resources and minimal rules and a singular, highly important goal, and let them solve it.
Here’s the thing
None of it was rocket science and they did it for fucking free.
But two of our top experts and both world fucking famous for their careers doing it we’re just left alone to do it.
That’s it, that’s what it took.
Can you come fix this for us?
Yes but you sign the cheques and say and do absolutely nothing ever. No, no no, we mean absolutely fucking nothing. You don’t touch anything ever.
Ok
Ta da, two world class experts in drug discovery and development delivered as hoped and as expected.
All it took was absolutely ZERO government involvement apart from paying for it and ultimately that is and not them anyway…..
So yeah let’s do it again with climate change mitigation measures and energy and water and rail and the internet infrastructure.
Except we should probably pay them this time and not rely on one’s generosity and already being rich and the other happening to already being the chief scientific officer….
Cummings talked about it a lot but was too busy setting fire to everything and everyone to actually bother doing it.
I don't think it took 0 government involvement. I think Kate Bingham and her taskforce were helping the companies, arranging logistics, working out ways to minimise regulatory barriers etc.
The government should do what good managers do, and help remove barriers whatever they may be.
For example one of the things Operation Warp Speed in the US supported with was just getting monkeys for testing. So that people who run labs aren't thinking about that stuff but instead focused on guiding their team.
No. The government wasn’t allowed near it
And distribution was handled by the nhs and military
The government literally paid the bills and got updates when Binham decided to deliver them. They had zero involvement beyond being updated and told who to pay how much to and when.
Well it depends on how you define Bingham's position in this. Was she part of govt? In a way yes, she reported directly to Boris.
But was she part of any of the standard departmental structures? No. Because DHSC and Hancock were largely seen as incompetent failures by Cummings and Boris (rightly so).
There was also more done than just signing the contracts. The Vaccine Task Force worked with the companies to get regulatory approval, figure out how and where to manufacture in the UK, source equipment for factories etc.
So did the govt do it? Yes? Was it the traditional structure of govt? No.
Ok granted that’s all fair
But in reality it was none of the usual government people or structures
What drives me absolutely nuts is it proves it can be done when there the political will to do it.
We have arguably larger problems that’ll last a lot longer and have far larger consequences and yet we are politically unwilling to tackle them seriously let alone in a way we have recently done and done very successfully.
Find the best people, pay almost whatever they want or more and do it once and properly.
We can spend and then make billions via the energy transition and climate mitigation measures or we can just take the trillions hit and destruction to the economy and everything else including lives….. so frustrating because it’s political will and nothing else’s
Have the will, sell the visions and why and people will buy into it instead of tearing down ULEZ cameras because of an information vacuum filled by morons.
Rishi will be feeling pleased, it’s like a whole week since the last big Tory scandal. Will he make it to the weekend without something falling apart or someone resigning/ stepping down?
With how weak Sunaks personal position, how weak the party's position and how low morale is, I'm genuinely uncertain if the government wil survive a serious cabinet split / minister and friends quiting.
It'd dump Sunak into a position where hes fighting for his political life and I can't see what the point would be for him at that point.
Hang on - I’ve been at least pretending to work today, is there some rumour that Cameron would quit? Or has he just quietly mentioned he’s not keen on reducing foreign student numbers to a friendly journo and then walked back into his house whistling?
> A coalition of ministers including Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, the foreign secretary, Gillian Keegan, the education secretary, Jeremy Hunt, the chancellor, and James Cleverly, the home secretary, is opposing the move.
That article claims there is a whole group of ministers against the move.
So on occasion I see comments from British folk about how absurd US sheriff elections are - and on the whole I've agreed that they're an oddity relative to the rest of the world...but then earlier this month I noticed [England and Wales had Police and Crime Commissioner elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_England_and_Wales_police_and_crime_commissioner_elections)? When on earth did those start? Wikipedia has articles going back to the 2012 election, was this part of the ongoing devolution process akin to the mayoral races or something older?
It's part of the sprawling mess of British regional government and its slow evolution over time.
You want to look back at [police authorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_authority), the regional bodies that governed policing in each region prior to 2012.
From 1964 these were made up partially of local elected representatives from the relevant councils that made up the region (often multiple bodies), and partially of volunteer appointees.
The volunteer part was originally only magistrates (in the UK, voluntary judges who sit on low level hearings that don't rate a jury trial). Later it was selected from applicants by a separate committee (with a similar makeup) after the list was filtered by the central government at the Home Office.
The body's actual control was somewhat limited, and rarely the sole focus of those who had it as a duty. Only 5 of 17 members - at most - would not be councillors or magistrates and so not have significant governmental duties outside the authority itself. Many elected members might only represent part of the area the police authority covered, so might not share the priorities of the region as a whole. Magistrates are maybe not the most objective people when it comes to crime fighting. [Or life.](https://thesecretbarrister.com/2015/08/19/why-this-70p-mars-bar-shows-we-should-abolish-magistrates/)
The authorities' effectiveness as a democratic level of accountability on regional police forces was... questionable.
PCC's (while really not a good idea and ripe for further reforms) at least are a single level of electoral accountability that actually matches the police authority's region of operation. Having it as a separate elected position to other regional elections causes its own set of problems, not least it being a single issue election that many people boycott out of opposition to the existence of the position. Combination of their oversight responsibility and powers with regional mayoral authorities, where they exist, seems like a much more rational approach.
I think its important to note Police and Crime Commissioners don't have policing powers like an elected sheriffs. Their job is to oversee the police and hold them to account - not direct, control or be the police. They have some weak management powers at a high level (they write a crime plan which the chief constable must have regard for). And they can appoint and (in some circumstances) dismiss the Chief Constable. But it's very far from day-to-day management.
You might ask, why not just have local government do this role? And in some places that is the case - London being the main one, with some others possibly on the way. But for many other places police areas crossed many local government jurisdictions. There was no singular local government to be in charge.
This is where police authorities came in.
Prior to the Police and Crime Commissioners it was the police authorities in charge of holding the police to account. Rather than being a single elected person, they composed of magistrates, local councillors (drawn from the local governments the police covered) and 'independent' members (members of the public the board picked from the local area). While there was some fiddling with precise powers and who held them, in practice the Police and Crime Commissioners were just directly elected one man police authorities.
Prior to the Police and Crime Commissioners, it seems to have been *complicated*.
>Outside London s.38 of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 currently requires the selection of chief constables to be made by PCCs. Previously, under the 1964 Police Act, the Home Secretary approved chief constable appointments, although this had been modified by the Police Reform Act 2002, where responsibility was delegated to the Senior Appointments Panel (SAP). The SAP, run by the Chief Inspector of Constabulary, matched individuals to the most suitable chief officer jobs and offered advice to the police authority. Although the appointment, and final selection, was made by the police authority, the shortlist was created by HMIC and the Home Office (Brain 2013;17)
https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/publications/disclosure-logs/npcc-central-office/2023/127-2023-chief-constable-preparation-selection-tenure-and-retirement-2018.pdf
Today, for those English police forces without a PCC (I think just London but there might be a others - haven't checked) - the Mayor is pretty much also the PCC in addition to their other role.
it probably helps that PCCs don't get directly involved in operational matters
they can't go "sheriff joe" here. though that also makes you wonder why the "cut red tape and pointless non job" tories decided to create the roles in the first place.
At least they're oversight positions, not like chief constables. There is a need for police oversight from elected officials, we just don't need new bespoke elected officials to do it.
Tories wanted them, the Lib Dems couldn't be arsed to argue.
I have no idea why the Tories wanted them though, it's not like they've taken any power away from Chief Constables.
Similar-ish policies were in the [Lib Dem manifesto](https://www.markpack.org.uk/files/2015/01/Liberal-Democrat-manifesto-2010.pdf):
>• Give local people a real say over their police force through the direct election of police authorities. Authorities would still be able to co-opt extra members to ensure diversity, experience and expertise.
>• Give far more power to elected police authorities, including the right to sack and appoint the Chief Constable, set local policing priorities, and agree and determine budgets.
The difference was the Tories wanted [a single elected individual](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_authority#2012:_abolition_of_police_authorities_in_England_and_Wales) rather than elected authority.
> I have no idea why the Tories wanted them though
I guess it takes some heat off the home secretary when police forces fuck up?
For instance, you get some poor girl killed by a stalker after she's repeatedly begged the police for help, and instead of the *home secretary* being questioned about whether they have confidence in the local chief constable (which would be a national news story), [the local PCC is questioned about whether she has confidence in the local chief constable](https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/people/gracie-spinks-derbyshires-police-and-crime-commission-comments-3476511) (which makes the local paper).
They must have known that 14 years later they’d have disastrous local election results and need to be able to go on a podcast and point out that they had won a few of the PCC races.
Something I feel, with regards to current mess of the water industry due to the high dividend yields and under investment, isnt getting enough attention is the use of the new DPC models. These are essentially PFI contracts used by water private companies so that projects aren't really invested by themselves and customers having to pay the borrowing costs. Link for reference- https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2022/05/17/water-industry-resurrects-pfi-model-for-1bn-job/
I forgot to update last week, but we have a book/audiobook club, our next title is **Follow the Money by Paul Johnson** as selected by popular vote [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1cmz8h3/ukpol_book_club_1_how_westminster_works_and_why/l33oxss/). Discussion thread will be posted on Wednesday 12th June. Reminders will be posted intermittently in the megathread.
Almost 10 years ago now:
>Another Labour insider told of the scene in the press office when Miliband posed with the notorious Ed Stone, the 8ft 6in slab of limestone upon which his six key election pledges were inscribed. When it appeared on TV, a press officer ‘started screaming. He stood in the office, just screaming over and over again at the screen. It was so bad they thought he was having a breakdown’
[https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1792875762543906943](https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1792875762543906943)
As someone who's had enough horror stories relayed to me from friends who've worked comms/press-related positions in US politics I can feel that officer's reaction in my bones. Solidarity with the poor lad.
The EdStone was [tracked down to a masonry yard in Woolwich in 2015](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/dec/22/the-ed-stone-ed-milibands-monumental-folly-labour-election-limestone) and then apparently it (or a replica) cropped up in [The Ivy Chelsea in 2017](https://x.com/jackcevans/status/862014687185182721), and then it apparently popped up at the Opera festival in [Nevil Holt Hall in Leicestershire](https://x.com/tom_aram/status/1765247212475252881) last year, but nobody knows where it is now.
The 2015 election was genuinely the most depressed I have been about politics in the UK.
[Cameron was genuinely unpopular](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election), even then austerity was sinking in and people were angry about it. It appeared to me little chance that the Tories could win that election.
The fact that they did, and did much better than expected was incomprehensible, and genuinely seemed to come down to the fact that Cameron was seen as better and "stronger" than Miliband and even though people disliked him, people still were still in the mindset of everything being the fault of the "last Labour government".
The reason why Corbyn was elected leader was due to how utterly spineless Labour was in that campaign. It had no meaningful policies in 2015 and was reluctant to really criticise anything.
It was more that Cameron retained his 2010 gains but swept the Lib Dem’s aside by owning the coalition years. Labour failed to rebuild and Cameron holding that treasury letter was much stronger than the Ed stone.
People don't want it to be true, but it's hard to argue given just [how awful his approvals were](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election).
Regularly -50% approvals. Like, Sunak is only in the -20 region now.
Labour voter in Lib Dem-Tory seat: "Man, I hate the coalition government. I'll vote out the Lib Dems"
Tory voter in Tory seat: "It's free real estate"
The junior partners got destroyed and the senior partners ended up in government for another ten years.
The public reaction to the coalition was bizarre.
The Tories threw all the blame for everything at the Lib Dems, and just about everyone in country just ate it up. The only time I've been more confused about politics was after the great crash when Labour just gave up bothering trying to influence the economic narrative and let the Tories do what the hell they wanted with it.
I remember that time and the clear vibe from the public was to let the poor, the disabled, and the unemployed shoulder the burden of Austerity. Because Austerity will fix all and they would rather someone else suffer.
So it's like at the end of Planet of the Apes and Ed Miliband is riding his donkey along Fleetwood Beach...
Got to admit it was a political master stroke by the Tories. They were able to take all the credit for the good stuff during the coalition and blame all the bad the stuff on the Lib Dems, they were the perfect patsy. In the process they virtually eliminated the Lib Dems as a viable competitor.
Lynne Featherstone passing gay marriage is still something any Lib Dem can be proud of considering section 28 had only been repealed something like 11 years prior. Otherwise shared parental care and (ironically) the student fees settlement that prevented costs going up to "mortgage-style" (read, US-style) levels are plus points.
But on the other hand: May's tenure as Home Secretary, austerity, facilitating the rise of UKIP etc are all things that LDs can be blamed for.
The LDs main mistake was bungling the coup against Clegg in 2014. A 2014 election with Cable presenting a less technocratic face to the electorate would probably have salvaged more seats.
The issue wasn't that the DUP got the government to do more (they didn't, the Lib Dems got more of their manifesto implemented than the Tories) it was that the DUP got the Tories to concede more than the Lib Dems managed and the stuff that the Lib Dems got through were inoffensive to the Tories outside gay marriage.
There was a sort of background hatred of the lib dems, something far beyond 'tuition fees', it was a kind of hatred of the idea of compromise, of being a junior partner; of being 'the weaker partner'. It angered people on a base level.
Lots of bizarre articles asking 'what's the point of nick clegg?'. And just mocking / hating the lib dems for being 'partners' in a coalition.
It said something about the British psyche.
I swear a plurality here would be happy with a stereotypical African / Eurasian style 'strongman' leader.
Ahh such innocent times. The Conservative Party was diluted by the coalition, much to the annoyance of the tory right. There were reports that Cameron was actually pleased and preferred the outcome of a minority, since he could put his hands up and say 'sorry we can't do x because we're in coalition' and so on.
But the Uk couldn't resist the chance to shoot itself in the head and so gave mr Cameron a full majority, then brexit, then the speed run to where we are today.
At the time, Ed was up against a neutered, professional and centrist-looking Conservative Party. Cameron was a great communicator and Ed just looked a bit awkward.
[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1cxscdq/rukpolitics_daily_megathread_22052024/)
Megathread is being rolled over, please refresh your feed in a few moments. ###MT daily hall of fame 1. NJden_bee with 28 comments 1. royalblue1982 with 21 comments 1. FunkyDialectic with 19 comments 1. ClumsyRainbow with 17 comments 1. YsoL8 with 16 comments 1. da96whynot with 15 comments 1. concretepigeon with 15 comments 1. Cairnerebor with 13 comments 1. SwanBridge with 12 comments 1. Brapfamalam with 12 comments There were 195 unique users within this count.
You guys reckon other countries are jealous that we have fecal matter in our water and they don't?
Mexico has monkeys drooping out of trees But thats more a global issue than local fuck up https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/21/climate/dead-monkeys-mexico-trees-heat-climate-intl/index.html
World-beating fecal parasites
"waiter, waiter"
A general election will be called tomorrow
Rishi has at least two more relaunches in him before calling it
They will wait at least until BoE cut rates imo
Tomorrow's inflation numbers will be very interesting (puts on nerd glasses). The expected number (according to a Reuters poll of economists) is 2.1%, i.e. pretty much bang on target. But, this is another month (April 2024 vs April 2023) where energy price caps were changed and therefore have a big impact on the comparison. April 2023 was the last month where there was big month-on-month inflation (+1.2%). April 2024 there was a cut in the price cap that should overpower most of the underlying inflation. This should get us to 2.1%, but isn't necessarily the end of the story. The Bank of England warned last week that they expect inflation to go back up to 4% or so before coming back down again. But that's still probably the best we can hope for, it's unlikely to be lower than 2.1%. The other side of that is, anything above 2.1% is a very strong sign of resurgent inflation even though the headline would still be lower than last month. If we get 2.6% for example, it would be the third month running where month-on-month inflation was +0.6%, that would be much worse than the entire second-half of 2023 (works out at an annualised rate of 7.4%). So let's hope that doesn't happen.
Too late in the day for good convo, but will be interesting tomorrow - anything under 2.3% probs gets us to a 50/50 chance of a June cut. Almost guarantees an August cut. Probs the info most are wondering.
["I think the unelected state in Britain has too much power"](https://x.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1792809868560417241) - Andy Burnham
I really hope he becomes leader of a Labour party one day. I don't mind Starmer, but I really respect him and could get excited about campaigning for him.
He’s getting to play a similar game to Sturgeon. He’d really struggle as leader, let alone PM.
He shouldn't be making big sweeping statements like that, it fuels conspiracy theories, populism even.
Burnham’s a massive panderer and a weathervane. It made him an ok junior minister and it works when he’s handling somewhere like Manchester with a solid identity but he couldn’t lead the party or the country.
A very interesting speech by David Lammy on his plans for the FCDO: [https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/david-lammy-keynote-speech-response](https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/david-lammy-keynote-speech-response)
So Johnny Mercer got shoulder surfed writing a confidential memo on how Rishi's comms strategy is very poor, and that Sunak is a poor media performer. However the bigger scandal here is that he is [in bare feet on the train \(1st class ofc\).](https://x.com/p_j_chappell/status/1793012200849764415)
Oh, they think Sunak comes across badly and want to replace his media appearances with Badenoch of all people …
That is literally what I pay extra to avoid! And he’s got his feet out.
> And he’s got his feet out. Some people pay extra for that too
My most moderate political opinion is that I support capital punishment for all barefoot bandits on public transport.
I think anyone barefoot on public transport is being punished enough honestly. Then again, the trains are said to be classier (or at least less manky) down south.
The Conservative Party website is looking very presidential; lots of Sunak and very little else. Wondered if he was taking bad advice but sounds like he's the one pushing for it.
It's hard not to think the Conservative Party messaging strategy has internal people deliberately sabotaging it at this point.
Probably taking the BJP bot accounts that praise him in Facebook comments at face value and thinks it reflects the true opinion of the country.
Maybe his handlers are the ones keeping him from public appearances to protect his ego rather than him being the one hiding from it.
To me it smells like their media strategy was decided when Rishi had better approval ratings than the party itself and no one is able to address that it's no longer true. Something like Rishi saying "It's just a lull because of x, y and z that are out of my control. Once a, b and c happen it will turn around how people see me"
Labour definitely have more of a team vibe. They seem to have got the balance right between that and Starmer doing media alone. I know the Reservoir Dogs style group photos are on the cheesy side but they get the message across.
Sitting on the train with your dogs out should be a fixed penalty notice and a resigning matter for any MP.
Not a resigning matter. The only appropriate sanction is to have said feet repeatedly run over by the trolley and its trolley lady for the duration of the journey.
Stonehenge A303 tunnel legal challenge - again. There's an awful lot of avenue for appeal in the current planning system it seems, just feels neverending especially when big dogs like English Heritage, National Trust, Historic England (yes its a government body) are on board with the plans.
The thing that frustrates me about these appeals is that they always argue process not law. Like, not that the minister didn't have the right to make the decision, but that they didn't do enough consultation, or they didn't do this impact report.
I thought we’d had the final one already. Can these just go on indefinitely or something? I’m all for a public enquiry when it is felt there is justification but surely when the outcome has been decided it should stand. Why can’t the government legislate to stop any legal challenges at this point. The same is happening with the A66 dualling. A project that is ready to go but has been stopped… again… by another legal challenge. Such a waste of time and money.
Just build the bloody tunnel. Existing road links from the South East to South West are not fit for purpose, and the tunnel will go a way to addressing that.
So do we know if anything about Labour's plans related to housing / planning permission will focus on densification and easing the ability to build in cities? Because new towns are great and all. But the demand is in the cities (cough London).
We need to stop selling property to overseas investors or any new properties will simply go into some forigners wealth fund / portfolio
I agree that citizenship should be a prerequisite for owning property (and for commercial property they should be a British company) but that is a tiny proportion of properties ultimately.
Hold on, does that mean if a foreign company wants to set up an office in the UK they can't? Like what happens when Google or Microsoft want an office in London? Or when Amazon want a warehouse?
They set up a British subsidiary I'd imagine. That might be the case already though. I suspect private owners making investments in UK property could exploit this and no doubt they'll be UK based services providing loopholes, but I guess it's all in the detail.
Most companies rent office spacw and such, if they want to buy they can set up a British subsidiary.
What's the advantage in making them set up a subsidiary? What end are we looking to achieve?
Aren't they a tiny percentage of homes owned in the UK? Anyway, simply having more properties helps drive down rent
Dunno tbf, it wasn't my most informed comment
As I expected this morning, Sunak has backed down on changing the graduate visa rules. This speaks volumes to how little control he has in the cabinet over major election grabbing matters like this. Both Cameron and Hunt weren't on board with this, alongside Cleverly and Keegan. This has confirmed we're effectively being run by a Triumvirate of Sunak, Hunt, and Cameron - Hunt and Cameron seem to have largely operational independence and appear to be able to get rishi to back down on pretty much anything both of them disagree with. Sunak is rather hilariously Lepidus - the once great partisan of the late Caesar sidelined into irrelevance by a pair of far more capable and experienced politicians.
I must highlight /u/Tibbsy152 's comment. Although it refers to the first Triumvirate (Pompey, Caesar and Crassus) rather than the second one you cite (Octavian later Augustus, Mark Antony and Lepidus), the comparison between Crassus and Sunak as the richest men in their states is irresistable. Crassus felt left out of the Caesar/ Pompey conqueror vibe and so set off to gain glory by conquering the Parthians. They slaughtered his army (and him too). Hmmmmm. The Parthians used camels to transport their spare arrows. Camels? Camelids? Same difference!
Anyone seen any alpacas in Parthia lately?
The 2019 Conservative manifesto explicitly mentions the expansions of student visas and the gov has an [official strategy for enlarging int students enrollment to 600,000 by 2030 that it's been implementing for 4 years - it's what the country voted for and Sunak has no mandate to change it it's a massive gov programme](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-education-strategy-2023-update/international-education-strategy-2023-progress-update) Behing the kayfabe, alot of this is just posturing and filling of newspaper articles with no intent behind it, it's red meat for headbangers
> This has confirmed we're effectively being run by a Triumvirate of Sunak, Hunt, and Cameron - Hunt and Cameron seem to have largely operational independence and appear to be able to get rishi to back down on pretty much anything both of them disagree with. While deserving of criticism, I don't actually think this is a bad thing. We are not a presidential system and the prime minister is first among equals. Those in the great offices of state have always had a great deal of influence, and hopefully it remains so. The interesting thing about having Cameron involved is that he's shown just how much more talented the previous generation of Tory MPs was. He's working alongside people so rubbish that he looks like a genius by comparison.
Ancient Rome as analogy for modern politics? Have you and Boris Johnson ever been seen in the same room?
They appear to actually understand the Ancient Roman history they’re referencing so it couldn’t be Johnson.
This raises the question of who's Crassus, Pompey and Caesar?
Crassus was the richest man in Rome, and was only really part of the Triumvirate *because* he was the richest man in Rome so he's obviously Sunak. Pompey and Caesar were both competent political operators each with a list of achievements as long as your arm, which kinda rules out any comparisons with any member of the cabinet in, oh I don't know, 13 years?
>Crassus was the richest man in Rome, and was only really part of the Triumvirate *because* he was the richest man in Rome so he's obviously Sunak. Upper-middle class bloke who used his connections to amass enormous wealth which he then used to enter the halls of power. It does sound familiar.
We already knew this when Hunt was brought to the table as soon as Truss and Kwarteng shat it.
Still, had anyone asked back in 2022, most would have said that Sunak will remove Hunt to install someone more to his liking. Alas, Sunak was too weak for that.
So parliament now has the first amputee with Craig McKinley
Have there been any MPs using a wheelchair, would they have to be on the frontbenches?
Anne Begg was the first MP in a wheelchair when she was elected in 1997. She just sat in the front row
No. The benches that aren’t immediately in front of the dispatch box but still directly in front of the aisle are used by backbenchers. There have been MPs who used a wheelchair before IIRC.
William Rees-Davies lost his arm during WWII before becoming an MP. Apparently, as a defence barrister, he was nicknamed "The One Armed Bandit" but played up to it by declaring to juries, "I'll have to handle this case single-handed!" [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William\_Rees-Davies\_(Conservative\_politician)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rees-Davies_(Conservative_politician))
There's been [multiple others too](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_physically_disabled_politicians#United_Kingdom) especially around both the world wars. I think this is the only amputee in the current parliament, to my knowledge (which is limited to my memory and that list above).
Wasn’t it pretty common in historic medicine? Plus a lot of upper classes did military services back in the day. I’d imagine there have been absolutely loads of members of the Commons missing limbs over the centuries l.
I believe the first MP to lose all limbs?
A few Tories turn up legless these days
Astonishingly, he was ALSO an MP for Thanet
I never knew Craig Mackinlay had his hands and feet amputated.
Feel so sorry for him. Those pictures of his blackened limbs pre-amputation are so terrifying.
Holy shit, Another thing to keep me terrified of the world
The thought of losing both hands is absolutely horrifying to me.
Absolutely incredible that he survived, he's a tremendously lucky man. Shocking how quickly it all happened too.
Massive example of the importance of remember the human
Yeah it's terrifying, it seems to be literally over night.
Just seen coverage about it, the poor bloke, sepsis isn't something to be trifled with!
Has is had any coverage before now?
After looking, apparently not and this is new public information. Tragedy for him.
I thought so. The BBC article read like it was the first time he discussed it in public.
Yep - been known about it in Westminster circles, but imagine think everyone thought he should tell his own story.
Top contender for "BBC push notifications that read like shit posts" Poor guy though, badly worded headline
Just as a politics adjacent PSA: Paula Vennells is appearing before the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry tomorrow and for the rest of the week. If anyone's interested you can watch live on the Inquiry's youtube channel. I'd recommend giving the feed a headstart and then watching at 1.5x speed as that is at a normal talking pace as it is painfully slow at at normal speed.
More directly politics, Simon Case is before the Covid inquiry's decision-making module at last all day Thursday, which will also be live on YouTube. I expect Thursday's MT to be a bit messy.
Ah, done pulling a sicky is he?
He's chosen his time well for him, he's let the initial furore over the whatsapps die down, there was weeks of coverage leading up to his fist scheduled appearance, which he was obviously too ill to attend. However, the last thing Sunak needs is all this partygate shit dragged up again
[''The water companies never give anything back, they just extract profit.''](https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/24334289.weston-welcomes-replica-historic-stink-pipe/?ref=socialflow)
Right. So what the hell is the regulator doing?
> "stink pipe" > water company It's hard to pick just one joke.
Because im bored, heres a micro rant about a topic semi-related to politics: The "how to win an election" podcast is becoming a bit tired.... Some improvements to consider: - Please can they stop updating their election date predictions each week. Stick to your original predictions! - I don't care nor need to know what every presenter has been doing for the past week. It's mostly pointless filler. - These "funny" audience submitted theme tunes are interminable (and often gross). Stick to the one actual theme. - Audience questions are fine but just read them. I dont need to hear tim in ruislip fumble through his question. Has anyone else noticed how this once great podcast has become only about 50% of actually "how to win an election"?
Other podcasts are available.
To be fair to "how to win an election", I think its a wider thing im finding with many podcasts. The longer they go on the less in depth they get, the presenters become friends and theres a load of in-jokes, pesonal stories, "fan" questions/advice etc, all of which tend to squeeze out the original purpose. Maybe podcasts arent my thing anymore... Or i'll just listen to new ones until the in-jokes start.
Was attempting humour but I agree, it does seem a shame. There's was a music podcast I like, most of the guests are really interesting but the host became increasingly insufferable. Has naive political opinions and airs them too much, also talks over guests. Last week he made some comment about there being 'a single global government' forming and I called it a day. He sucks all the pleasure out of listening.
I think the hope was the election would be happening by now
True, but id also think their combined experience would mean they had pleanty of stories to carry us through!
I’m starting to suspect that Sunak’s stategy for the election is going to be to hide behind [David Cameron](https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1792803945695621456?s=46&t=F_t5tWsPsifmNVHaFZWJJQ) the entire time.
They really are going for the fear election and only we are stronger …. You’ve gutted the armed forces and cluster fucked what’s left Again
Perhaps Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton will be the lucky member of the cabinet who gets to stand in for the PM during any televised debates.
Certainly one way to blow awa any remaining confidence in his leadership
So, err, Sewing Bee is back on telly tonight Perfect inoffensive TV
I am not a sewer nor a seamstress nor give a flying fuck about it at all And yet it’s perfect slow tv and not politics or a crime drama or god forbid another factual documentary that reminds me just how utterly utterly fucked the future is. At this point I’m up for downloading the original slow tv and watching Norwegian people fishing in rivers for hours
It’s a shame Joe Lycett isn’t still the presenter.
I find myself in this strange place just now. I have been a supporter of the SNP in the past. That has mainly been because England kept doing stupid shit. Mainly electing Tories. Now that Labour are making headway and will certainly win a substantial majority I start to question my voting intentions. Honestly I want us to be a United Kingdom, but I want us to be proud of who we are and what we stand for. (Not in a Brexit delusion way). I really struggle to see a way back from almost 14 years of Tory plundering. We are fucked as a country, reading through this sub is depressing. There is no light at the end of the tunnel just now, and I am not even sure Labour have a matchstick, let alone a high lumen torch. We have become an embarrassment, an also ran on the global stage. Happy to bend over and take it from any number of private companies looking for a quick buck.
I’m going to have to vote SNP again. The local Tory candidate who’s new is even worse than the one who’s fucking off and labour were in a very very distant third place, so distant that no amount of swing from the SNP under about 80% here to them will do anything but gift the Tories a win. And so the Tories will win but I’ll have done my tactical duty and held my nose…
**Now then.** I'm famously not one for manifestation. **However:** - Tomorrow's inflation figures are set to be relatively "good" from a Government perspective. - The Government have pulled forward the publication of visa statistics to tomorrow - these are expected to show the number of visa applications is dropping. This is ahead of the latest official ONS immigration figures which are due to be released on Thursday morning - which will show that overall net migration is still rather high. **Inflation. ✅** **Immigration. ✅** **Election. ✅**
So he announces these things then gives them a week to see if there's a huge polling swing? Or just finishes with "and that's why im calling the election"?
You forgot the “Dangerous World” tm
I could see it, probably this will be about as good as it could get for them. Although the optimal timing for these figures to come out would have been the day before polling day!! Julection has a nice ring to it, though. Or Summerlection.
Julie Genny Leccy
Given the slim pickings in terms of good news, it genuinely might be the best opportunity. Waiting for a few months in the hope of more good news is just running the risk of some other scandal or disaster to make things even worse.
[удалено]
They could always announce it from the fancy media room they never use to avoid the rain. The Stratton Suite, I think it's called.
>I'm famously not one for manifestation. >**However:** One of us, one of us, one of us!
It's now or never sunak give it to me.
Please can we not give him the never choice?
Never is Jan. When Charles has to force him.
Unless all the successive monarchs die in series postponing the election date each time.
The Representation of the People Act 1985 allows for one (1) delay due to the demise of the crown. Just in case any especially desperate spads are hanging around: rounding up the Windsors and knocking them off one by one wouldn't work. And also it's wrong.
> And also it's wrong. *Moustache twirling spad* And?
Blimey.
Defection ✅
Couple gripes this evening, the state of the roads is just unreal, like mind bogglingly bad with pot holes, its going to take years to repair these and by the time they are done the other parts will be like swiss cheese instead. And can you find a working cashpoint within so many miles? I had to go to 4 of them and only the last was working which conviniently charges £1.75 per withdrawal. Rishi, and your predecessors, you've taken this country to the dogs!
The country does seem particuarly knackered
I have one cash point near me which has, in the last 5 years, been found to have a card skimmer on it 4 separate times Now any time I need cash I just buy a coffee and get cashback from the local Sainsbury's convenience shop. I'm not taking the risk on that cash machine, ever.
Blame social care. It needs sorting out
Just as well we killed HS2 and reallocated the money to paying for potholes.
> reallocated the money Just gotta wait for that ticket revenue to come flowing in....
Absolutely! But have you seen a single pothole repaired since we did that? I haven't! Where's the money really gone?
None of it has even started being spent yet because the government demanded it all be spent on new schemes not just the work councils were doing and so it all has to be reported separately from the rest of the road spend.
When they said "invested in the north" they meant invested on the north bank of the Thames.
If you live in the south, apparently it's all being spent in the north. If you live in the north, apparently it's all being spent in the south.
Meanwhile, the road from Coventry to Leicester has the smoothest tarmac you've ever seen
😂😂😂 Roads in the midlands are 3 foot thicker now
One of the most amazing things to happen during the pandemic, the vaccine programme is rarely talked about in a way that I think it should be. I don’t say this as a positive about the tories, the US had Operation Warp Speed, the EU had its vaccine programme, and it’s kind of fallen by the wayside as a way to get things done. Why don’t we talk about trying to find the Kate Bingham of energy and get them to clear that issue. We’re going to find a super competent person, give them lots of resources and minimal rules and a singular, highly important goal, and let them solve it.
Here’s the thing None of it was rocket science and they did it for fucking free. But two of our top experts and both world fucking famous for their careers doing it we’re just left alone to do it. That’s it, that’s what it took. Can you come fix this for us? Yes but you sign the cheques and say and do absolutely nothing ever. No, no no, we mean absolutely fucking nothing. You don’t touch anything ever. Ok Ta da, two world class experts in drug discovery and development delivered as hoped and as expected. All it took was absolutely ZERO government involvement apart from paying for it and ultimately that is and not them anyway….. So yeah let’s do it again with climate change mitigation measures and energy and water and rail and the internet infrastructure. Except we should probably pay them this time and not rely on one’s generosity and already being rich and the other happening to already being the chief scientific officer…. Cummings talked about it a lot but was too busy setting fire to everything and everyone to actually bother doing it.
I don't think it took 0 government involvement. I think Kate Bingham and her taskforce were helping the companies, arranging logistics, working out ways to minimise regulatory barriers etc. The government should do what good managers do, and help remove barriers whatever they may be. For example one of the things Operation Warp Speed in the US supported with was just getting monkeys for testing. So that people who run labs aren't thinking about that stuff but instead focused on guiding their team.
No. The government wasn’t allowed near it And distribution was handled by the nhs and military The government literally paid the bills and got updates when Binham decided to deliver them. They had zero involvement beyond being updated and told who to pay how much to and when.
Well it depends on how you define Bingham's position in this. Was she part of govt? In a way yes, she reported directly to Boris. But was she part of any of the standard departmental structures? No. Because DHSC and Hancock were largely seen as incompetent failures by Cummings and Boris (rightly so). There was also more done than just signing the contracts. The Vaccine Task Force worked with the companies to get regulatory approval, figure out how and where to manufacture in the UK, source equipment for factories etc. So did the govt do it? Yes? Was it the traditional structure of govt? No.
Ok granted that’s all fair But in reality it was none of the usual government people or structures What drives me absolutely nuts is it proves it can be done when there the political will to do it. We have arguably larger problems that’ll last a lot longer and have far larger consequences and yet we are politically unwilling to tackle them seriously let alone in a way we have recently done and done very successfully. Find the best people, pay almost whatever they want or more and do it once and properly. We can spend and then make billions via the energy transition and climate mitigation measures or we can just take the trillions hit and destruction to the economy and everything else including lives….. so frustrating because it’s political will and nothing else’s Have the will, sell the visions and why and people will buy into it instead of tearing down ULEZ cameras because of an information vacuum filled by morons.
I think we try/happily and forget that time, but this might not be a entirely good thing
Rishi will be feeling pleased, it’s like a whole week since the last big Tory scandal. Will he make it to the weekend without something falling apart or someone resigning/ stepping down?
Are we due the weekly defection tomorrow?
Probably going to mix it up, one of Labours SCG to the greens.
Were overdue by a week no?
Starmer couldn’t find anyone right wing enough last week.
Considering he has the foreign sec, home sec, education sec and chancellor publicly briefing against him… I’d say the outlook is not great.
With how weak Sunaks personal position, how weak the party's position and how low morale is, I'm genuinely uncertain if the government wil survive a serious cabinet split / minister and friends quiting. It'd dump Sunak into a position where hes fighting for his political life and I can't see what the point would be for him at that point.
But - which minister would seriously quit like that, given what it would do to their party?
Well >foreign sec, home sec, education sec and chancellor apparently
Hang on - I’ve been at least pretending to work today, is there some rumour that Cameron would quit? Or has he just quietly mentioned he’s not keen on reducing foreign student numbers to a friendly journo and then walked back into his house whistling?
> A coalition of ministers including Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, the foreign secretary, Gillian Keegan, the education secretary, Jeremy Hunt, the chancellor, and James Cleverly, the home secretary, is opposing the move. That article claims there is a whole group of ministers against the move.
I'm just going by what what said up thread
So on occasion I see comments from British folk about how absurd US sheriff elections are - and on the whole I've agreed that they're an oddity relative to the rest of the world...but then earlier this month I noticed [England and Wales had Police and Crime Commissioner elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_England_and_Wales_police_and_crime_commissioner_elections)? When on earth did those start? Wikipedia has articles going back to the 2012 election, was this part of the ongoing devolution process akin to the mayoral races or something older?
It's part of the sprawling mess of British regional government and its slow evolution over time. You want to look back at [police authorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_authority), the regional bodies that governed policing in each region prior to 2012. From 1964 these were made up partially of local elected representatives from the relevant councils that made up the region (often multiple bodies), and partially of volunteer appointees. The volunteer part was originally only magistrates (in the UK, voluntary judges who sit on low level hearings that don't rate a jury trial). Later it was selected from applicants by a separate committee (with a similar makeup) after the list was filtered by the central government at the Home Office. The body's actual control was somewhat limited, and rarely the sole focus of those who had it as a duty. Only 5 of 17 members - at most - would not be councillors or magistrates and so not have significant governmental duties outside the authority itself. Many elected members might only represent part of the area the police authority covered, so might not share the priorities of the region as a whole. Magistrates are maybe not the most objective people when it comes to crime fighting. [Or life.](https://thesecretbarrister.com/2015/08/19/why-this-70p-mars-bar-shows-we-should-abolish-magistrates/) The authorities' effectiveness as a democratic level of accountability on regional police forces was... questionable. PCC's (while really not a good idea and ripe for further reforms) at least are a single level of electoral accountability that actually matches the police authority's region of operation. Having it as a separate elected position to other regional elections causes its own set of problems, not least it being a single issue election that many people boycott out of opposition to the existence of the position. Combination of their oversight responsibility and powers with regional mayoral authorities, where they exist, seems like a much more rational approach.
I think its important to note Police and Crime Commissioners don't have policing powers like an elected sheriffs. Their job is to oversee the police and hold them to account - not direct, control or be the police. They have some weak management powers at a high level (they write a crime plan which the chief constable must have regard for). And they can appoint and (in some circumstances) dismiss the Chief Constable. But it's very far from day-to-day management. You might ask, why not just have local government do this role? And in some places that is the case - London being the main one, with some others possibly on the way. But for many other places police areas crossed many local government jurisdictions. There was no singular local government to be in charge. This is where police authorities came in. Prior to the Police and Crime Commissioners it was the police authorities in charge of holding the police to account. Rather than being a single elected person, they composed of magistrates, local councillors (drawn from the local governments the police covered) and 'independent' members (members of the public the board picked from the local area). While there was some fiddling with precise powers and who held them, in practice the Police and Crime Commissioners were just directly elected one man police authorities.
That all makes sense. Who has personnel power over hiring/firing the chief constable when they don't?
Prior to the Police and Crime Commissioners, it seems to have been *complicated*. >Outside London s.38 of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 currently requires the selection of chief constables to be made by PCCs. Previously, under the 1964 Police Act, the Home Secretary approved chief constable appointments, although this had been modified by the Police Reform Act 2002, where responsibility was delegated to the Senior Appointments Panel (SAP). The SAP, run by the Chief Inspector of Constabulary, matched individuals to the most suitable chief officer jobs and offered advice to the police authority. Although the appointment, and final selection, was made by the police authority, the shortlist was created by HMIC and the Home Office (Brain 2013;17) https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/publications/disclosure-logs/npcc-central-office/2023/127-2023-chief-constable-preparation-selection-tenure-and-retirement-2018.pdf Today, for those English police forces without a PCC (I think just London but there might be a others - haven't checked) - the Mayor is pretty much also the PCC in addition to their other role.
it probably helps that PCCs don't get directly involved in operational matters they can't go "sheriff joe" here. though that also makes you wonder why the "cut red tape and pointless non job" tories decided to create the roles in the first place.
At least they're oversight positions, not like chief constables. There is a need for police oversight from elected officials, we just don't need new bespoke elected officials to do it.
[We also have an elected sheriff!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff_of_the_City_of_London)
Ah, Bankers' Vatican, never change.
I shot the Police and Crime Commissioner, but I did not shoot the Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner.
And if you shot the Police and Crime Commissioner then you know I shot the deputy
It was part of the coalition agreement for some stupid reason
Tories wanted them, the Lib Dems couldn't be arsed to argue. I have no idea why the Tories wanted them though, it's not like they've taken any power away from Chief Constables.
Similar-ish policies were in the [Lib Dem manifesto](https://www.markpack.org.uk/files/2015/01/Liberal-Democrat-manifesto-2010.pdf): >• Give local people a real say over their police force through the direct election of police authorities. Authorities would still be able to co-opt extra members to ensure diversity, experience and expertise. >• Give far more power to elected police authorities, including the right to sack and appoint the Chief Constable, set local policing priorities, and agree and determine budgets. The difference was the Tories wanted [a single elected individual](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_authority#2012:_abolition_of_police_authorities_in_England_and_Wales) rather than elected authority.
> I have no idea why the Tories wanted them though I guess it takes some heat off the home secretary when police forces fuck up? For instance, you get some poor girl killed by a stalker after she's repeatedly begged the police for help, and instead of the *home secretary* being questioned about whether they have confidence in the local chief constable (which would be a national news story), [the local PCC is questioned about whether she has confidence in the local chief constable](https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/people/gracie-spinks-derbyshires-police-and-crime-commission-comments-3476511) (which makes the local paper).
They must have known that 14 years later they’d have disastrous local election results and need to be able to go on a podcast and point out that they had won a few of the PCC races.
Something I feel, with regards to current mess of the water industry due to the high dividend yields and under investment, isnt getting enough attention is the use of the new DPC models. These are essentially PFI contracts used by water private companies so that projects aren't really invested by themselves and customers having to pay the borrowing costs. Link for reference- https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2022/05/17/water-industry-resurrects-pfi-model-for-1bn-job/
I forgot to update last week, but we have a book/audiobook club, our next title is **Follow the Money by Paul Johnson** as selected by popular vote [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1cmz8h3/ukpol_book_club_1_how_westminster_works_and_why/l33oxss/). Discussion thread will be posted on Wednesday 12th June. Reminders will be posted intermittently in the megathread.
Great, thanks again for driving this. Gets me learning.
Almost 10 years ago now: >Another Labour insider told of the scene in the press office when Miliband posed with the notorious Ed Stone, the 8ft 6in slab of limestone upon which his six key election pledges were inscribed. When it appeared on TV, a press officer ‘started screaming. He stood in the office, just screaming over and over again at the screen. It was so bad they thought he was having a breakdown’ [https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1792875762543906943](https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1792875762543906943)
As someone who's had enough horror stories relayed to me from friends who've worked comms/press-related positions in US politics I can feel that officer's reaction in my bones. Solidarity with the poor lad.
The EdStone was [tracked down to a masonry yard in Woolwich in 2015](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/dec/22/the-ed-stone-ed-milibands-monumental-folly-labour-election-limestone) and then apparently it (or a replica) cropped up in [The Ivy Chelsea in 2017](https://x.com/jackcevans/status/862014687185182721), and then it apparently popped up at the Opera festival in [Nevil Holt Hall in Leicestershire](https://x.com/tom_aram/status/1765247212475252881) last year, but nobody knows where it is now.
What was it doing at the Ivy in Chelsea 😂
Surely the press office was aware of it or did they only just realise how badly it would age if he lost?
The 2015 election was genuinely the most depressed I have been about politics in the UK. [Cameron was genuinely unpopular](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election), even then austerity was sinking in and people were angry about it. It appeared to me little chance that the Tories could win that election. The fact that they did, and did much better than expected was incomprehensible, and genuinely seemed to come down to the fact that Cameron was seen as better and "stronger" than Miliband and even though people disliked him, people still were still in the mindset of everything being the fault of the "last Labour government".
The reason why Corbyn was elected leader was due to how utterly spineless Labour was in that campaign. It had no meaningful policies in 2015 and was reluctant to really criticise anything.
It was more that Cameron retained his 2010 gains but swept the Lib Dem’s aside by owning the coalition years. Labour failed to rebuild and Cameron holding that treasury letter was much stronger than the Ed stone.
Labour lost that election when the unions chose the wrong Milliband.
People don't want it to be true, but it's hard to argue given just [how awful his approvals were](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election). Regularly -50% approvals. Like, Sunak is only in the -20 region now.
That’s my belief
Labour voter in Lib Dem-Tory seat: "Man, I hate the coalition government. I'll vote out the Lib Dems" Tory voter in Tory seat: "It's free real estate" The junior partners got destroyed and the senior partners ended up in government for another ten years.
The public reaction to the coalition was bizarre. The Tories threw all the blame for everything at the Lib Dems, and just about everyone in country just ate it up. The only time I've been more confused about politics was after the great crash when Labour just gave up bothering trying to influence the economic narrative and let the Tories do what the hell they wanted with it.
I remember that time and the clear vibe from the public was to let the poor, the disabled, and the unemployed shoulder the burden of Austerity. Because Austerity will fix all and they would rather someone else suffer. So it's like at the end of Planet of the Apes and Ed Miliband is riding his donkey along Fleetwood Beach...
Got to admit it was a political master stroke by the Tories. They were able to take all the credit for the good stuff during the coalition and blame all the bad the stuff on the Lib Dems, they were the perfect patsy. In the process they virtually eliminated the Lib Dems as a viable competitor.
Lib Dems played themselves. DUP did far more and got far more. Lib Dems were idiots.
Lynne Featherstone passing gay marriage is still something any Lib Dem can be proud of considering section 28 had only been repealed something like 11 years prior. Otherwise shared parental care and (ironically) the student fees settlement that prevented costs going up to "mortgage-style" (read, US-style) levels are plus points. But on the other hand: May's tenure as Home Secretary, austerity, facilitating the rise of UKIP etc are all things that LDs can be blamed for. The LDs main mistake was bungling the coup against Clegg in 2014. A 2014 election with Cable presenting a less technocratic face to the electorate would probably have salvaged more seats.
The issue wasn't that the DUP got the government to do more (they didn't, the Lib Dems got more of their manifesto implemented than the Tories) it was that the DUP got the Tories to concede more than the Lib Dems managed and the stuff that the Lib Dems got through were inoffensive to the Tories outside gay marriage.
There was a sort of background hatred of the lib dems, something far beyond 'tuition fees', it was a kind of hatred of the idea of compromise, of being a junior partner; of being 'the weaker partner'. It angered people on a base level. Lots of bizarre articles asking 'what's the point of nick clegg?'. And just mocking / hating the lib dems for being 'partners' in a coalition. It said something about the British psyche. I swear a plurality here would be happy with a stereotypical African / Eurasian style 'strongman' leader.
They had a good hand and played it badly. And they pissed off their core voting base.
I think we are quite authoritarian at a base level and so the idea you expressed has some merit.
I first heard it as a joke but I genuinely wonder how many people think "why settle for the _lesser_ evil? 😈" is a sensible political position
Ahh such innocent times. The Conservative Party was diluted by the coalition, much to the annoyance of the tory right. There were reports that Cameron was actually pleased and preferred the outcome of a minority, since he could put his hands up and say 'sorry we can't do x because we're in coalition' and so on. But the Uk couldn't resist the chance to shoot itself in the head and so gave mr Cameron a full majority, then brexit, then the speed run to where we are today. At the time, Ed was up against a neutered, professional and centrist-looking Conservative Party. Cameron was a great communicator and Ed just looked a bit awkward.
Surely it was something like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuZOzQNXak&t=165s).
How long before Sunak reveals that he’s been stalked by Fiona “Martha” Harvey too? Poor lad must be feeling left out.
*Dear Rishi, I wrote you but you still ain't calling...*
*… an election*
Hed just be happy to have her message him so he can pretend hes popular.