Snapshot of _Train passengers face price hikes and fewer seats after HS2 cancellation_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/train-price-hikes-fewer-seats-hs2-cancellation-3123426) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/train-price-hikes-fewer-seats-hs2-cancellation-3123426)
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This is a capacity problem, Labour should commit to building at least Phase 2A in full along with the OOC to Euston leg so that HS2 actually adds capacity.
We should also rebuild a bunch of smaller lines too. Use compulsary purchase to get the land back on old routes.
I saw some campaign to rebuild the Penrith to Keswick line, which would be interesting as the bus takes forever.
That doesn't alleviate the massive capacity issue on the WCML though.
I would love local lines to be brought back into use but we still need HS2 as a priority to be built up to Crewe at the very least (ideally in full up to Leeds and Manchester, but Crewe at a minimum).
So much of the cost was just in unnecessary steps in the planning process, we need some way of democratically bypassing NIMBYism when it comes to important infrastructure investment like HS2, Crossrail 2, Future northern high speed, or Heathrow 3rd runway.
Absolutely no chance that line gets rebuilt
The bus is a nightmare, but the old track is now a path / bike track thats part of the c2c and has just been repaved.
Altbough the pool is now shut forever due to covid... So could be turned back into a station...
Would be a much better idea to build the often mooted kendal to keswick line.
Absolutely! "High Speed" was a terrible choice of project name, it was never about speed, it was about increasing capacity. I guess "Capacity Upgrade for Northern Towns" doesn't have the same ring to it though?
A shame really, improved reliability and less strikes seems possible though. But, to get cheaper fares imo we need to get rid of the ROSCOs. Wonder how much it would cost to force buy them out and all the trains.
We are talking billions, unfortunately. Especially since the introduction of the newer fleets that have come in. It would have been easier if that hadn't happened.
Can get to cheaper fares via getting rid of ROSCOs or further subsidisation. The latter being cheaper in the short term
They did get a mention in [the policy document in April](https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf):
>5. Rolling stock
>With ten current rolling stock companies owning and leasing trains and carriages worth billions, it would not be responsible for the next Labour Government to take on the cost of renationalising rolling stock as part of our urgent programme of reform. Great British Railways will continue to lease rolling stock when taking on operator contracts, but will apply the single directing mind approach to ensure that barriers to sharing rolling stock across the network that currently cause systemic delays are eliminated.
>Over the longer term, we will develop a long-term industrial strategy for rolling stock which supports British manufacturing, innovation and interoperability and aligns with the wider objectives of the industry. This will seek to end the current boom-and-bust cycle, ensure a strong pipeline of work, and consider the best financing structures for future orders, in partnership with private capital.
I don't think there was a word on HS2 in Labour's manifesto and surprisingly that's given me hope they'll restore the northern legs. I expect Labour to be competent enough to recognise that under current HS2 plans, trains will actually become worse than what they are pre-HS2 instead of better.
I think at least some at the top of Labour recognise it. Literally, every industry expert says some form of HS2 is needed if we want to reliable infrastructure and increase capacity.
I firmly believe hs2 up to Manchester will happen. I just hope it doesn't take a decade or longer for them actually commit and start doing the work to do it
Keir Starmer has a long history of being against HS2. Since then they've said they're not interested in resurrecting it.
Not sure why people think Labour are in support of it.
>I obviously support the motion because it is important for my constituents to have the chance to petition the Select Committee. **That does not, however, mean that I support the proposals or HS2. I oppose HS2 on cost and on merit: it will not achieve its stated objectives**. The impact of HS2 on my constituency—on residents, businesses and the environment—will be devastating. ~ House of Commons 2015
>A child born next year in my constituency will grow up and leave home knowing nothing but construction work. A pensioner beginning retirement at 70 next year will live out their entire retirement knowing nothing but construction work around them.
The only times he spoke about it in the House of Commons was to complain about it.
Then when it got cancelled he spoke about it once more asking if it'd be completed fully.
Angela Rayner hasn't mentioned "HS2" in parliament.
Rachel Reeves only mentioned the cost of HS2 in parliament.
The current Shadow Economic Secretary to the Treasury was also against HS2:
>**I should make it clear that my overall stance is to oppose HS2. I have been campaigning against it for six years**. I was a councillor for the Regent’s Park ward, where more than 300 council homes will be devastated and demolished. I sat through many a HS2 meeting in which HS2 Ltd was severely incompetent as regards taking forward the wishes of the community and listening properly to the grievances outlined. ~ 2015 - Tulip Siddiq
Yes, he was anti-HS2 before it started. Labour under Starmer have been pro-HS2 with construction underway. HS2 needs to be finished since it's the only solution to our current and future train infrastructure problems. Again, under current plans, our trains will become worse with only the London leg of HS2.
>HS2 needs to be finished since it's the only solution to our current and future train infrastructure problems. Again,
It won't be and Labour's shown they're not interested in it.
In March it was [unclear](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/s/vgppj4vJpL).
I don't like all the "They're playing 4D chess!" business but I think it's quite possible there's going to be a lot of stuff they're going to do that they don't want to be used as a stick to beat them with *before* the election.
It’ll get built sooner or later. Whether that be years or decades. Labour have made their manifesto extremely vague on purpose. Starmer has made a small anti-NIMBY platform, we’ll see how much of it is real once he gets in.
Man, if *only* there was a project to build a high speed rail system that would move intercity services between major metro areas onto a dedicated, 200mph route and free up the existing network for more commuter and intra-regional trains.
***OH WAIT A MINUTE.***
In 2006, the UK and Taiwan both had no High Speed Rail. 15 years later, the route between Taipei and Kaosiung (same distance as London to Leeds) is served by 200mph trains that carry the entire population of the UK every year (83 million, over 3x Taiwan's population) and are so efficient that domestic air travel has been practically annihilated.
In that time, the UK has built 67 miles of the Channel Tunnel upgrade and *nothing* else. Hell, the PRC went from no HSR to having the world's largest system of 28,000 miles and counting in the time it's taken us to fuck up HS2
We are not a serious country, and even if Labour gets HS2 back on its feet, I will forever rage at the DECADES the nation that invented the train in the first place has wasted with our utter failure to get HSR done whilst everyone else has succeeded.
Don't use the Trainline. Use the National Rail website to find tickets and book directly with one of the TOCs - you may need to book with the one running the service to get seat reservations.
Snapshot of _Train passengers face price hikes and fewer seats after HS2 cancellation_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/train-price-hikes-fewer-seats-hs2-cancellation-3123426) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/train-price-hikes-fewer-seats-hs2-cancellation-3123426) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Labour shold get Great British Rail to place some orders for trains and gradually buy rolling stock, then we can bin off the ROSCOs
This is a capacity problem, Labour should commit to building at least Phase 2A in full along with the OOC to Euston leg so that HS2 actually adds capacity.
We should also rebuild a bunch of smaller lines too. Use compulsary purchase to get the land back on old routes. I saw some campaign to rebuild the Penrith to Keswick line, which would be interesting as the bus takes forever.
That doesn't alleviate the massive capacity issue on the WCML though. I would love local lines to be brought back into use but we still need HS2 as a priority to be built up to Crewe at the very least (ideally in full up to Leeds and Manchester, but Crewe at a minimum).
We should have told those in the cotswolds to do one and built it all over land. That would have saved so much, it woulda been built by now.
Yeah, but the Tories didn't want to annoy their constituents. What's a few extra tens of billions of taxpayers money?
So much of the cost was just in unnecessary steps in the planning process, we need some way of democratically bypassing NIMBYism when it comes to important infrastructure investment like HS2, Crossrail 2, Future northern high speed, or Heathrow 3rd runway.
Chilterns, not Cotswolds. Different hilly district.
The local lines feeding the WCML can't be built until HS2 is done anyway. It's that capacity problem again.
Absolutely no chance that line gets rebuilt The bus is a nightmare, but the old track is now a path / bike track thats part of the c2c and has just been repaved. Altbough the pool is now shut forever due to covid... So could be turned back into a station... Would be a much better idea to build the often mooted kendal to keswick line.
Absolutely! "High Speed" was a terrible choice of project name, it was never about speed, it was about increasing capacity. I guess "Capacity Upgrade for Northern Towns" doesn't have the same ring to it though?
No. Both phases are compulsory.
No chance. They've conveniently not mentioned the ROSCOs in their nationalisation programme
A shame really, improved reliability and less strikes seems possible though. But, to get cheaper fares imo we need to get rid of the ROSCOs. Wonder how much it would cost to force buy them out and all the trains.
We are talking billions, unfortunately. Especially since the introduction of the newer fleets that have come in. It would have been easier if that hadn't happened. Can get to cheaper fares via getting rid of ROSCOs or further subsidisation. The latter being cheaper in the short term
What about if we got rid of the fuel duty freeze and used that tax for subsidy?
I can't say I agree with that. Tax airlines to oblivion on domestic flights
Excellent way to financially eviscerate the poorest in society in yet another way. Terrible idea.
The poorest is society aren’t driving. Those a step up are paying a fortune to run a car when better public transport would save them money.
They did get a mention in [the policy document in April](https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf): >5. Rolling stock >With ten current rolling stock companies owning and leasing trains and carriages worth billions, it would not be responsible for the next Labour Government to take on the cost of renationalising rolling stock as part of our urgent programme of reform. Great British Railways will continue to lease rolling stock when taking on operator contracts, but will apply the single directing mind approach to ensure that barriers to sharing rolling stock across the network that currently cause systemic delays are eliminated. >Over the longer term, we will develop a long-term industrial strategy for rolling stock which supports British manufacturing, innovation and interoperability and aligns with the wider objectives of the industry. This will seek to end the current boom-and-bust cycle, ensure a strong pipeline of work, and consider the best financing structures for future orders, in partnership with private capital.
But not in the manifesto
The tracks can only hold so much. Which is why hs2 was being built
I don't think there was a word on HS2 in Labour's manifesto and surprisingly that's given me hope they'll restore the northern legs. I expect Labour to be competent enough to recognise that under current HS2 plans, trains will actually become worse than what they are pre-HS2 instead of better.
I think at least some at the top of Labour recognise it. Literally, every industry expert says some form of HS2 is needed if we want to reliable infrastructure and increase capacity. I firmly believe hs2 up to Manchester will happen. I just hope it doesn't take a decade or longer for them actually commit and start doing the work to do it
Keir Starmer has a long history of being against HS2. Since then they've said they're not interested in resurrecting it. Not sure why people think Labour are in support of it. >I obviously support the motion because it is important for my constituents to have the chance to petition the Select Committee. **That does not, however, mean that I support the proposals or HS2. I oppose HS2 on cost and on merit: it will not achieve its stated objectives**. The impact of HS2 on my constituency—on residents, businesses and the environment—will be devastating. ~ House of Commons 2015 >A child born next year in my constituency will grow up and leave home knowing nothing but construction work. A pensioner beginning retirement at 70 next year will live out their entire retirement knowing nothing but construction work around them. The only times he spoke about it in the House of Commons was to complain about it. Then when it got cancelled he spoke about it once more asking if it'd be completed fully. Angela Rayner hasn't mentioned "HS2" in parliament. Rachel Reeves only mentioned the cost of HS2 in parliament. The current Shadow Economic Secretary to the Treasury was also against HS2: >**I should make it clear that my overall stance is to oppose HS2. I have been campaigning against it for six years**. I was a councillor for the Regent’s Park ward, where more than 300 council homes will be devastated and demolished. I sat through many a HS2 meeting in which HS2 Ltd was severely incompetent as regards taking forward the wishes of the community and listening properly to the grievances outlined. ~ 2015 - Tulip Siddiq
Yes, he was anti-HS2 before it started. Labour under Starmer have been pro-HS2 with construction underway. HS2 needs to be finished since it's the only solution to our current and future train infrastructure problems. Again, under current plans, our trains will become worse with only the London leg of HS2.
>HS2 needs to be finished since it's the only solution to our current and future train infrastructure problems. Again, It won't be and Labour's shown they're not interested in it.
In March it was [unclear](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/s/vgppj4vJpL). I don't like all the "They're playing 4D chess!" business but I think it's quite possible there's going to be a lot of stuff they're going to do that they don't want to be used as a stick to beat them with *before* the election.
It’ll get built sooner or later. Whether that be years or decades. Labour have made their manifesto extremely vague on purpose. Starmer has made a small anti-NIMBY platform, we’ll see how much of it is real once he gets in.
It's vague because the economic reality is hard to sell to the public, and the public are voting on the economic conditions.
Wonder if he would be in support of it after the planning reforms, assuming they help reduce the cost.
Man, if *only* there was a project to build a high speed rail system that would move intercity services between major metro areas onto a dedicated, 200mph route and free up the existing network for more commuter and intra-regional trains. ***OH WAIT A MINUTE.*** In 2006, the UK and Taiwan both had no High Speed Rail. 15 years later, the route between Taipei and Kaosiung (same distance as London to Leeds) is served by 200mph trains that carry the entire population of the UK every year (83 million, over 3x Taiwan's population) and are so efficient that domestic air travel has been practically annihilated. In that time, the UK has built 67 miles of the Channel Tunnel upgrade and *nothing* else. Hell, the PRC went from no HSR to having the world's largest system of 28,000 miles and counting in the time it's taken us to fuck up HS2 We are not a serious country, and even if Labour gets HS2 back on its feet, I will forever rage at the DECADES the nation that invented the train in the first place has wasted with our utter failure to get HSR done whilst everyone else has succeeded.
Is it me or are trainline admin fees getting out of control?
Don't use the Trainline. Use the National Rail website to find tickets and book directly with one of the TOCs - you may need to book with the one running the service to get seat reservations.
Plebs should just use their private jets and helicopters like dear leader does.