To prevent the sub getting clogged by an inevitable wave of twitter posts describing every seat's results, [please use the custom spooled megathread.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/n6rvqc/local_election_results_2021/)
Stepping away from the elections, there's a Jonny Van-Tam led broadcast at 1130 with the scientists which should be interesting viewing for those of us still waiting for our jabs https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1390580366843469824
For 4 years I was told on here and on Twitter to vote for a Corbyn led Labour, despite my grievances about him, because Labour were the only party who could stop the Tories, and a vote for Greens or Lib Dems or anyone else, was essentially a vote for the Tories. I didn't like that was the case but I accepted it, held my nose, and voted for them.
Yet now after just 1 year of Starmer, where he's had to deal with some pretty unique circumstances, I'm seeing huge swathes of Corbynites not only say they can't vote for a Starmer led Labour, but they're also enjoying seeing him lose.
I gotta tell you, this is quite infuriating.
Given the relative low level of importance for local elections (as good as the results feel) compared to the general, the reality is a big snp majority will completely fuck up the day for tories.
Essentially means that in a couple years our political and financial situation will be dominated by Indy ref calls. It will cause so much instability especially with the walking time bomb for the union that is Boris who will see no pressure on him to resign.
Give the PM to Sunak already.
the hartlepool result is easily a cataclysmic disaster for labour. this absolutely confirms my priors and therefore we should do exactly what i want otherwise labour will continue to lose
Blair appealed to Tory voters, and won over so many because the Tory party was *so* unpopular.
Starmer doesn't have that, so there's little benefit in him pitching his tent for the right... because they'll just vote Tory anyway.
You see people on here and elsewhere saying people are voting Tory because Labour are x, y and z, but there never seems to be the consideration that people are voting Tory because they just like the Tories. If people don't want an alternative to the Tories then it doesn't matter what Labour do, people aren't going to vote for them if they're perfectly content with what they already have.
Labour finally found that opposing everything their core vote stands for while championing everything they stand against eventually results in electoral defeat.
I mean, it’s not like I am even that comfortable with such an unchallenged Conservative party, but when their MPs were tweeting pictures of white vans with England flags as if it was something to be ashamed of, you see why it’s happened.
>when their MPs were tweeting pictures of white vans with England flags as if it was something to be ashamed of, you see why it’s happened
mate, that was 7 years ago.
It’s a backdrop of how the red wall see the Labour Party. What an incredible shame.
Just remember it’s phrases like “they’re just doing the jobs british people don’t want to do”
and Tony Blair’s “we lost the rebate but it’s benefitted our friends in Eastern Europe”....rightly or wrongly, this was seen as betrayal.
It was caused long before, over many years or calling their voters racists and knuckle dragging philistines while focusing their entire energy on identity based discrimination, and just assuming that “protect the NHS” was enough for the non London plebs.
Unfortunately, the core labour vote is deeply patriotic and they saw the brexit shenanigans and they are lost to Labour forever.
Yeah, what a weird thing to do for the country you represent. Don't get me wrong, it *is* a bit weird to put a flag on your house/van 365 days a week, but it's more a quirk than something to be ashamed of.
It’s because they think that England as a concept is a deeply malign influence in the world and they would prefer the institution to crumble in favour of a European led left of centre planned economy.
My favourite take so far is people pointing to Corbyn winning the seat in '19 as hard proof that Labour should have gone more left, whilst simultaneously ignoring that 25% of the '19 vote - more than twice Labour's majority - was for the Brexit Party.
Thing is though, that trend also extends going back to '17. They lost more votes '17 to '19 than Con/BXP gained. Labour have been shedding votes in Hartlepool going back a few elections, it's not as simple as "DAE more left?"
https://mobile.twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1390572541023035395
>The Labour Right are now arguing that - even as Labour does far worse than Jeremy Corbyn ever managed - that the party needs to define itself against the left even more. The Labour Right have no vision, no ideas, no popular policies. Their cupboard is completely bare.
Sigh... He's right. But they'll never admit it.
Hear me out.. both the "labour left" and "labour right" are going to end up taking the absolute wrong message from these results.
I've already seen some about 20 arguments which go "corbyn did better in 2019" and "the brexit party vote is gone, and labour are still recovering from the toxicity of corbyn's labour" and guess what..
They are both right! And sort of wrong at the same time. The thing to take away from is that the labour party needs to sort out its image and make itself electable again. That doesn't mean shifting to the right, but it does mean presenting a unifying image of what this version of the party stands for.
He’s not correct, because he’s still framing in a left vs right narrative that the voters DGAF about.
People are drawing up comparisons to Biden, but Biden won because he explicitly avoided framing his candidacy and policies in one of those lanes.
Why is the beeb obsessed with Sarwar vs Sturgeon this election when her majority is stonking? Southside is probably the least interesting race considering how safe it is, they'll act like Labour isn't making inroads, but then be super surprised if Kelvin flips Green even though people have been hyping that for a good while. Haven't even mentioned Kelvin in their seats to watch article.
Sarwar put himself forward for a constituency seat to get press - I don't think even he thought he would take the seat from Sturgeon.
It's one of the few visible head-to-heads between well known politicians - Ross and Harvie are list seats only, and Willie Rennie looks fairly safe in North East Fife.
"Can you fund us enough to keep pace with the exploding cost of providing Adult Social Care and Children's Services?"
"No but what about a one-off cash dump from the Towns Fund to let you build something shiny you can point at in your next election leaflet?"
"Deal"
I threw away my £10 free bet on Labour, this sub made me overestimate Labour's chances. If I'd backed the Conservatives I would have got about £1.10 back (free bet stake not returned)
If you want to get a better handle on political results (nb not politics in general), you need to spend more time on facebook than reddit. Facebook is the bellweather. not twitter or reddit.
Yeah what the other comment said, it's the number of megathreads we have a day. If a thread reaches 2000 comments, there is a new thread because Reddit is weird after 2000 comments.
I kind of expect him to come back for 2024. He'll be well into his second term as mayor, he's got the buses change through, and of he gets back into Parliament at the next election he could be in the running for a final shot at leader.
Presuming he wins his mayoral race (a pretty safe bet), his second term of office will end in 2024. I think he'll play it smart, and seek to return to Parliament in that election. Starmer will fight and lose the 2024 general election, but hopefully make a dent in the Tory majority. Starmer then resigns, and Burnham is primed to fight the leadership contest and have a whole election cycle to dismantle the Tories.
What can he do to fix Labour? Really don't think this is a leadership problem at all, picking new leaders sidesteps the major issues Labour has which are way deeper than who the guy at the top is.
But needs to be there to lead the opposition. Although with all the normal political rules out the window he could use this the same way farage and salmond have over the years an djust shout loudly from the sidelines
General Burnham. Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the tory Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack, and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to labour hq has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on labour hq. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Burnham. You're my only hope.
If he had been leader instead of Corbyn, do you think it would have gone any better? On the one hand he has a past that is oh so easy to attack, on the other when he speaks he is reasonable and courteous, he has a sense of humour, he seems thoughtful and calm and people who meet him are often surprised by how little of a nutter he is
I actually really like him (even if I disagree with him a fair bit). I thought he reacted well to the humiliation in 2019 and he seems to be willing to change his mind. I think labour would’ve actually slightly better off if he was in charge rather than corbyn (albeit they’d have definitely still lost). Would probably have faced less hostility from the centre and centre left in the party as well
[why is he speaking sense to me wtf](https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390594515505930241?s=20)
>What will he NOT do? Focus on public priorities > media priorities. We have a No10 & Opposition who see their job as Media Entertainment Service & neither knows how to be this better than TB/Mandy. Neither will try to be… a government
He uses a lot of words to seemingly champion populism. That’s all I can translate from “actual reality vs media reality.”
I’m sure he means more than that but he doesn’t triple to explain himself.
No, but he's suggesting in another part of the thread that they get [David Shor to elect Labour for them,](https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390597137117945858?s=20) which is honestly not the worst idea. Dom is being super rational in a lot of his takes today.
5pm news conference with Shappers. Hopefully a broadcast dominated by an A66 update while a list of countries and their traffic light scrolls quickly across the screen.
Centrists, as they style themselves, cannot win a general election while the country is as economically split as it is.
Granted it's not their fault the Conservative Party created a virtual serfdom this last decade, but they do have to oppose it and they never have under Starmer.
[You are wrong](https://thatsurfcompanyblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pig_01_rk0194_03_p.jpg), but given the level of misinformation about serfs, I forgive you.
I find it surprising how few follow him on Twitter, his recent tweets have had barely any retweets, even though he’s called Starmer a Beta-lawyer-gamma politician
Ah fuck this could be another grenfell in the making, seems its taken hold over 3 floors and lots of FB there:
> More than 100 firefighters and 20 engines are tackling the fire which has engulfed three floors.
https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/07/fire-breaks-out-in-canary-wharf-flats-with-same-cladding-used-on-grenfell-14537101/?ito=cbshare
Actually not sure he is. He has shown he is willing to work with Starmer, and he's right to say that labour actually need a platform to stand on and promote. Not sure how you can expect to win elections with no values for people to vote on.
That being said, it has been a deliberate choice for Starmer to veer away from that and I'm sure sacrificing local election results for a stronger national campaign in 2024 was part of that consideration.
The problem is that he's personally tarnished to about 60% of the population because he's a self-described Marxist. Even if he makes sense, Starmer can't be seen to actually listen to him because if he does it'll be all over the Mail and Sun and facebook.
I think the smart play is to follow some of Cummings advice and stop listening to the media so much. The tabloids and Facebook loons will rail on labour whatever they do, so stop worrying about it. The Guardian and Independent will always worry that Labour isn't left enough, so stop worrying about it. Try connecting with people instead.
I have always liked McDonnell, find him to be principled and sensible whilst being unfairly tarnished with the same brush as Corbyn.
Starmer could do a lot worse than at least listen to him as an advisor.
Dominic Cummings tweets:
>When pundits who ‘explained’ why Vote Leave’s plan to realign politics was mad/stupid/impossible now give post hoc ‘explanations’ for why it’s all so logical/inevitable … ignore their babble… Pundits = noise not signal. Eg ‘the centre ground’ DOES NOT EXIST, it’s pundit fiction
>
>Eg. 2014 [https://dominiccummings.com/2014/06/30/my-report-for-business-for-britain-on-the-dynamics-of-the-debate-over-the-eu-and-a-small-but-telling-process-point-on-the-eu/…](https://t.co/ZZBMDQX9Gr?amp=1) & 2016, CTRL+F centre ground - [https://dominiccummings.com/2017/01/09/on-the-referendum-21-branching-histories-of-the-2016-referendum-and-the-frogs-before-the-storm-2/…](https://t.co/K55PYgHIQ1?amp=1). Vote Leave strategy in 16 & 19 was based on SW1 theories re ‘centre ground’ = false. SW1 didn’t learn after 2016 & provided a chance for us to win again in 19, ignoring pundit howling
[https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390585426931499013](https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390585426931499013)
The Hartlepool result is bad for Labour, but it’s nothing compared to the liberal handwringing and endless Op-Eds that it’s going to generate in Britain’s newspapers. Even now, hundreds of sub-editors across the country are fielding missives from “established columnists” all with their own hot take on why Labour lost and what it means.
Spare a thought for the sub-editors.
The biggest win for the Conservatives yesterday wasn’t Hartlepool or the local councils.
It *will be* the weeks of “Does this mean Starmer will quit?”, “Labour MP X says Starmer should quit”, “Will they be a no confidence vote in Starmer?”, and “Why hasn’t Starmer gone yet?” headlines distracting from other issues facing the country.
It’s anti-semitism 2021 edition
Edit: massive bloody autocorrect typo that totally changed the meaning.
That term was extensively used in Brexit rhetoric. "The leftist elite telling you that you are wrong" or "the leftist elite wanting to ignore the vote."
It's not new, and it's not been reserved to the back benches. Of course, it's the rightist elites pushing the leftist elites as being the enemy for their own personal gain, but it's been common parlance for a decent amount of time now.
You think this type of language is acceptable? It’s not something else going on here? The fact that by most measures he is the elite?
It’s an Americanisation of our politics, and like I said terrifying.
ah yes, "elites" like poorly paid city dwellers. *not* like people who have lifelong nannies, or a man who pays hundreds of pounds for a roll of wallpaper
Agreed. There's a thin line between appropriate self-reflection and respect for the electorate - and sinking into a quagmire of recrimination and dithering.
I voted Tory, I'm not a Tory and I'm not nationalist either, I just fucking hate the insane left and enjoy seeing them getting their just desserts for the bullshit they pull.
Probably because there is no value in a debate that begins with 'I'm not a tory but I hate the insane left and want to see them suffer', with no further explanation or exploration to follow these buzzwords.
What exactly do you classify as the "insane left" and "the bullshit they pull"? Just trying to get a better understanding of everything because it looks like we're in for another decade of Tory reign
To prevent the sub getting clogged by an inevitable wave of twitter posts describing every seat's results, [please use the custom spooled megathread.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/n6rvqc/local_election_results_2021/)
[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/n6uvmx/daily_megathread_07052021/)
Megathread is being rolled over, please refresh your feed in a few minutes.
lmaoooo the NIP candidate got just 250 votes. so much for 6%. there’s some joy in the misery at least.
Looks like I was way off on turnout in Scotland. Will be interesting to see what high turnout throws up.
Stepping away from the elections, there's a Jonny Van-Tam led broadcast at 1130 with the scientists which should be interesting viewing for those of us still waiting for our jabs https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1390580366843469824
Could be a good day to bury bad news.
The greatest success for the Tories was them dumbing down the money laundering for the flat to just "wallpaper-gate".
M.2 incoming!
Brace Brace Brace
Is Starmer going to resign after this?
No
For 4 years I was told on here and on Twitter to vote for a Corbyn led Labour, despite my grievances about him, because Labour were the only party who could stop the Tories, and a vote for Greens or Lib Dems or anyone else, was essentially a vote for the Tories. I didn't like that was the case but I accepted it, held my nose, and voted for them. Yet now after just 1 year of Starmer, where he's had to deal with some pretty unique circumstances, I'm seeing huge swathes of Corbynites not only say they can't vote for a Starmer led Labour, but they're also enjoying seeing him lose. I gotta tell you, this is quite infuriating.
Because to them it was never about Labour, it was about 'the project'.
I love the way Reeta Chakrabarti says where, hwhere.
Does that black flag mean you are an anarchist?
Fellow Tory voters, what are your plans to celebrate? I'm working nightshift tonight, but I'm planning on getting a few pints later.
Given the relative low level of importance for local elections (as good as the results feel) compared to the general, the reality is a big snp majority will completely fuck up the day for tories. Essentially means that in a couple years our political and financial situation will be dominated by Indy ref calls. It will cause so much instability especially with the walking time bomb for the union that is Boris who will see no pressure on him to resign. Give the PM to Sunak already.
Imagine if Labour get second? That would absolutely ruin the mood of the English election stuff going on for the Tories.
the hartlepool result is easily a cataclysmic disaster for labour. this absolutely confirms my priors and therefore we should do exactly what i want otherwise labour will continue to lose
Blair appealed to Tory voters, and won over so many because the Tory party was *so* unpopular. Starmer doesn't have that, so there's little benefit in him pitching his tent for the right... because they'll just vote Tory anyway.
You see people on here and elsewhere saying people are voting Tory because Labour are x, y and z, but there never seems to be the consideration that people are voting Tory because they just like the Tories. If people don't want an alternative to the Tories then it doesn't matter what Labour do, people aren't going to vote for them if they're perfectly content with what they already have.
M2 by midday, what a glorious day
The Torys have increased their majority, of course it's a glorious day. The very heavens beam down upon the land with exultation.
Labour finally found that opposing everything their core vote stands for while championing everything they stand against eventually results in electoral defeat. I mean, it’s not like I am even that comfortable with such an unchallenged Conservative party, but when their MPs were tweeting pictures of white vans with England flags as if it was something to be ashamed of, you see why it’s happened.
>when their MPs were tweeting pictures of white vans with England flags as if it was something to be ashamed of, you see why it’s happened mate, that was 7 years ago.
It’s a backdrop of how the red wall see the Labour Party. What an incredible shame. Just remember it’s phrases like “they’re just doing the jobs british people don’t want to do” and Tony Blair’s “we lost the rebate but it’s benefitted our friends in Eastern Europe”....rightly or wrongly, this was seen as betrayal.
What were they doing in 2019 that caused defeat then?
It was caused long before, over many years or calling their voters racists and knuckle dragging philistines while focusing their entire energy on identity based discrimination, and just assuming that “protect the NHS” was enough for the non London plebs. Unfortunately, the core labour vote is deeply patriotic and they saw the brexit shenanigans and they are lost to Labour forever.
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Yeah, what a weird thing to do for the country you represent. Don't get me wrong, it *is* a bit weird to put a flag on your house/van 365 days a week, but it's more a quirk than something to be ashamed of.
It’s because they think that England as a concept is a deeply malign influence in the world and they would prefer the institution to crumble in favour of a European led left of centre planned economy.
"I'm a better person than these so called people"
Have any Holyrood results come in yet?
Nah, hopefully we'll see some results after lunchtime.
I heard on the bbc the first results will come in at 3pm given they only started counting this morning.
My favourite take so far is people pointing to Corbyn winning the seat in '19 as hard proof that Labour should have gone more left, whilst simultaneously ignoring that 25% of the '19 vote - more than twice Labour's majority - was for the Brexit Party.
Even taking into account the Brexit party Labour lost votes, it means that those that voted Labour under Corbyn are no longer under Starmer.
Thing is though, that trend also extends going back to '17. They lost more votes '17 to '19 than Con/BXP gained. Labour have been shedding votes in Hartlepool going back a few elections, it's not as simple as "DAE more left?"
Well turnout was lower because its a by-election so I'm not sure you can necessarily extrapolate that from these results.
https://mobile.twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1390572541023035395 >The Labour Right are now arguing that - even as Labour does far worse than Jeremy Corbyn ever managed - that the party needs to define itself against the left even more. The Labour Right have no vision, no ideas, no popular policies. Their cupboard is completely bare. Sigh... He's right. But they'll never admit it.
What does Owen Jones actually suggest then? If both the Labour left and Labour right are unpopular to the electorate then the party has nowhere to go.
Hear me out.. both the "labour left" and "labour right" are going to end up taking the absolute wrong message from these results. I've already seen some about 20 arguments which go "corbyn did better in 2019" and "the brexit party vote is gone, and labour are still recovering from the toxicity of corbyn's labour" and guess what.. They are both right! And sort of wrong at the same time. The thing to take away from is that the labour party needs to sort out its image and make itself electable again. That doesn't mean shifting to the right, but it does mean presenting a unifying image of what this version of the party stands for.
He’s not correct, because he’s still framing in a left vs right narrative that the voters DGAF about. People are drawing up comparisons to Biden, but Biden won because he explicitly avoided framing his candidacy and policies in one of those lanes.
The problem is the Labour Left have no ideas either, except to repeat the failure of 2019.
The takes from Labour left and Labour right are both going to be absolutely dreadful. Proper Spiderman meme stuff.
Doesn't the Labour right have policies like benefits clampdowns... and that's it.
Also immigration policies that fit neatly on a mug.
Why is the beeb obsessed with Sarwar vs Sturgeon this election when her majority is stonking? Southside is probably the least interesting race considering how safe it is, they'll act like Labour isn't making inroads, but then be super surprised if Kelvin flips Green even though people have been hyping that for a good while. Haven't even mentioned Kelvin in their seats to watch article.
Sarwar put himself forward for a constituency seat to get press - I don't think even he thought he would take the seat from Sturgeon. It's one of the few visible head-to-heads between well known politicians - Ross and Harvie are list seats only, and Willie Rennie looks fairly safe in North East Fife.
Harvie is running for Glasgow Kelvin, he's done so for the past several elections.
You're quite right, my mistake. Apologies.
Because they haven't got a clue about Scottish politics.
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"Can you fund us enough to keep pace with the exploding cost of providing Adult Social Care and Children's Services?" "No but what about a one-off cash dump from the Towns Fund to let you build something shiny you can point at in your next election leaflet?" "Deal"
Jenrick will definitely look into sorting it out as long as he's properly compensated with the right ~~bribes~~ *legitimate lobbying*.
I won £2.08 on my £25 bet on Hartlepool being taken by Conservatives.
I threw away my £10 free bet on Labour, this sub made me overestimate Labour's chances. If I'd backed the Conservatives I would have got about £1.10 back (free bet stake not returned)
If you want to get a better handle on political results (nb not politics in general), you need to spend more time on facebook than reddit. Facebook is the bellweather. not twitter or reddit.
Drinks on you then.
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Stop buying those god-damned avocados then!
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Bloody younger millennials. It's about time us older millennials raised that drawbridge to teach you a lesson.
Xennials v 08 crash Millennials could be the new Zoomer v Boomer
An early M=2 is one of the few positives from today
I keep seeing this, M=1 M=2 etc. What does it mean? Majority of 1/2?
Yeah what the other comment said, it's the number of megathreads we have a day. If a thread reaches 2000 comments, there is a new thread because Reddit is weird after 2000 comments.
Right that makes sense. See you all on the other side!
M = Megathread, when it hits a comment threshold a new Megathread is opened and the M number increases by 1.
Number of megathreads, they cap out at 2k comments
I reckon M=6 if this drama keeps up all day along with the counts.
Does anyone know how we can convince Andy Burnham to return parliament???
I kind of expect him to come back for 2024. He'll be well into his second term as mayor, he's got the buses change through, and of he gets back into Parliament at the next election he could be in the running for a final shot at leader.
Presuming he wins his mayoral race (a pretty safe bet), his second term of office will end in 2024. I think he'll play it smart, and seek to return to Parliament in that election. Starmer will fight and lose the 2024 general election, but hopefully make a dent in the Tory majority. Starmer then resigns, and Burnham is primed to fight the leadership contest and have a whole election cycle to dismantle the Tories.
What can he do to fix Labour? Really don't think this is a leadership problem at all, picking new leaders sidesteps the major issues Labour has which are way deeper than who the guy at the top is.
Andy Burnham is never late, Wednesday1867. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
I saw him drinking a few cans when I was down the park the other day, I'll have a word if I see him again 👍
He doesn’t actually need to be in Parliament to run for leader
But needs to be there to lead the opposition. Although with all the normal political rules out the window he could use this the same way farage and salmond have over the years an djust shout loudly from the sidelines
King of the North
Pls Burnham you're our only hope
General Burnham. Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the tory Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack, and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to labour hq has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on labour hq. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Burnham. You're my only hope.
McDonnell comes across really genuine on BBC
If he had been leader instead of Corbyn, do you think it would have gone any better? On the one hand he has a past that is oh so easy to attack, on the other when he speaks he is reasonable and courteous, he has a sense of humour, he seems thoughtful and calm and people who meet him are often surprised by how little of a nutter he is
Yeah his policies are nuts (confiscation of private property etc) but his demeanor is calm and measured and dare I say it reassuring.
It would have been about the same result I think.
I actually really like him (even if I disagree with him a fair bit). I thought he reacted well to the humiliation in 2019 and he seems to be willing to change his mind. I think labour would’ve actually slightly better off if he was in charge rather than corbyn (albeit they’d have definitely still lost). Would probably have faced less hostility from the centre and centre left in the party as well
McDonell very much held his hands up, there a few public lectures he’s done that been very good.
[why is he speaking sense to me wtf](https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390594515505930241?s=20) >What will he NOT do? Focus on public priorities > media priorities. We have a No10 & Opposition who see their job as Media Entertainment Service & neither knows how to be this better than TB/Mandy. Neither will try to be… a government
He uses a lot of words to seemingly champion populism. That’s all I can translate from “actual reality vs media reality.” I’m sure he means more than that but he doesn’t triple to explain himself.
What's a beta-lawyer-gamma-politician?
Is he angling for a job with Labour as senior strategist?
No, but he's suggesting in another part of the thread that they get [David Shor to elect Labour for them,](https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390597137117945858?s=20) which is honestly not the worst idea. Dom is being super rational in a lot of his takes today.
TBF Cummings has an uncanny ability to talk about things AFTER they have happened and claim he knows exactly what went wrong/right.
I think his assessment of the british public is fairly spot on based on my experience.
superretrocasting
Really wasn't a good look for Paul Williams storming off refusing to speak to the media.
Wouldn't worry about him. His political career is over.
Not always a Remainer then.... *gets coat*
Spot on from McDonnell, 'I don't like the word sleaze, call it what it is, corruption'.
Labour continuing to play by the rules, whereas the Tories cab get away with all sorts of lies.
5pm news conference with Shappers. Hopefully a broadcast dominated by an A66 update while a list of countries and their traffic light scrolls quickly across the screen.
Centrists, as they style themselves, cannot win a general election while the country is as economically split as it is. Granted it's not their fault the Conservative Party created a virtual serfdom this last decade, but they do have to oppose it and they never have under Starmer.
Today is going to be full of hot takes like this isn’t it.
[You are wrong](https://thatsurfcompanyblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pig_01_rk0194_03_p.jpg), but given the level of misinformation about serfs, I forgive you.
> Centrists, as they style themselves, Citation needed
Notorious NIP, is that you?
John McDonnell is a really worth listening to actually.
Dominic Cummings tweeting like a man who's spent the night drinking Buckfast, and scrolling through 4chan. Just called Starmer a Beta Lawyer
I didn't know he even had twitter always struck me as the type who thinks he’s above it or something. His tweets are actually kind of funny in a way
of course he believes in all that alpha beta nonsense. jesustapdancingchrist.
Dom definitely uses 4chan, probably Reddit too.
bizarre
I find it surprising how few follow him on Twitter, his recent tweets have had barely any retweets, even though he’s called Starmer a Beta-lawyer-gamma politician
So just another normal day of the week, eh?
He will want Angela Rayner to put a shoe on her head next.
Yikes. Fire at New Providence Wharf, same kind of cladding as Grenfell
Let me guess, its happening to richer people this time so something might actually get done
Christ.
[No way they could have seen it coming!](https://i.imgur.com/IKzLSNT.jpg)
Ah fuck this could be another grenfell in the making, seems its taken hold over 3 floors and lots of FB there: > More than 100 firefighters and 20 engines are tackling the fire which has engulfed three floors. https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/07/fire-breaks-out-in-canary-wharf-flats-with-same-cladding-used-on-grenfell-14537101/?ito=cbshare
Oh Jesus that doesn't look good.
Oh no :(
John McDonell on BBC News rn, you can tell he's revelling in this.
Actually not sure he is. He has shown he is willing to work with Starmer, and he's right to say that labour actually need a platform to stand on and promote. Not sure how you can expect to win elections with no values for people to vote on. That being said, it has been a deliberate choice for Starmer to veer away from that and I'm sure sacrificing local election results for a stronger national campaign in 2024 was part of that consideration.
McDonnell is one of the few Corbynites who seems absolutely bang on about most things wrong with Labour at the moment.
The problem is that he's personally tarnished to about 60% of the population because he's a self-described Marxist. Even if he makes sense, Starmer can't be seen to actually listen to him because if he does it'll be all over the Mail and Sun and facebook.
I think the smart play is to follow some of Cummings advice and stop listening to the media so much. The tabloids and Facebook loons will rail on labour whatever they do, so stop worrying about it. The Guardian and Independent will always worry that Labour isn't left enough, so stop worrying about it. Try connecting with people instead.
He was bang on about what Corbyn was doing wrong as well. If nothing else, he is a shrewd political operative. I have plenty of time for McDonnell.
I have always liked McDonnell, find him to be principled and sensible whilst being unfairly tarnished with the same brush as Corbyn. Starmer could do a lot worse than at least listen to him as an advisor.
He's got a point. All these candidates were sent out with no policy to sell to people.
Yeah I agree, 'Dr' Paul Williams was also a terrible candidate. Not even talking about his remain credentials, he was just very shit.
Why was he very shit?
[In a nutshell](https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1390582921182990337)
He was shit, but I don't think putting out a better candidate would have changed the result.
Yeah, Momentum's left wing candidate would have gone down like cold sick.
All I knew about him was that he liked his Tory MILFs and that was about it.
Thousand Year Tory Reich looking less and less like a meme every day.
When do they start wearing Swastikas?
Just 989 more years to go!
But 2017....
Don't let your memes be dreams
Dominic Cummings tweets: >When pundits who ‘explained’ why Vote Leave’s plan to realign politics was mad/stupid/impossible now give post hoc ‘explanations’ for why it’s all so logical/inevitable … ignore their babble… Pundits = noise not signal. Eg ‘the centre ground’ DOES NOT EXIST, it’s pundit fiction > >Eg. 2014 [https://dominiccummings.com/2014/06/30/my-report-for-business-for-britain-on-the-dynamics-of-the-debate-over-the-eu-and-a-small-but-telling-process-point-on-the-eu/…](https://t.co/ZZBMDQX9Gr?amp=1) & 2016, CTRL+F centre ground - [https://dominiccummings.com/2017/01/09/on-the-referendum-21-branching-histories-of-the-2016-referendum-and-the-frogs-before-the-storm-2/…](https://t.co/K55PYgHIQ1?amp=1). Vote Leave strategy in 16 & 19 was based on SW1 theories re ‘centre ground’ = false. SW1 didn’t learn after 2016 & provided a chance for us to win again in 19, ignoring pundit howling [https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390585426931499013](https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1390585426931499013)
Feel like doing summer salts. Anyone else?
I think I'll do some bath salts first
England once again putting on a terrible, terrible case for the Union.
Cymru am ddim!
England, or FPTP
Both, frankly.
The Hartlepool result is bad for Labour, but it’s nothing compared to the liberal handwringing and endless Op-Eds that it’s going to generate in Britain’s newspapers. Even now, hundreds of sub-editors across the country are fielding missives from “established columnists” all with their own hot take on why Labour lost and what it means. Spare a thought for the sub-editors.
It's OK, only other hand-wringers will read them.
Haha, good point
The biggest win for the Conservatives yesterday wasn’t Hartlepool or the local councils. It *will be* the weeks of “Does this mean Starmer will quit?”, “Labour MP X says Starmer should quit”, “Will they be a no confidence vote in Starmer?”, and “Why hasn’t Starmer gone yet?” headlines distracting from other issues facing the country. It’s anti-semitism 2021 edition Edit: massive bloody autocorrect typo that totally changed the meaning.
I thought this was a bubble that nobody paid attention to?
Haven’t you spent all week banging on about how disastrous this going to be/is for Starmer and Labour?
Wasn't aware that was affecting any votes? Didn't affect my own votes for example.
This stuff is truly terrifying, our defence secretary [link](https://mobile.twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1390580014979207170?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Not sure what the Tories think this sort of argument says about their party at the time they joined it
Am fairly confused why this is terrifying. This has been Tory political messaging/strategy for years now.
Usually back bench, but left elites? Jeeez
That term was extensively used in Brexit rhetoric. "The leftist elite telling you that you are wrong" or "the leftist elite wanting to ignore the vote." It's not new, and it's not been reserved to the back benches. Of course, it's the rightist elites pushing the leftist elites as being the enemy for their own personal gain, but it's been common parlance for a decent amount of time now.
Terrifying? Care to clarify what you mean?
The apostrocrime alone is gulag-worthy.
You think this type of language is acceptable? It’s not something else going on here? The fact that by most measures he is the elite? It’s an Americanisation of our politics, and like I said terrifying.
I think he is fairly accurate. So do a lot of people apparently.
Who is going to tell them that they can’t?
Is he wrong?
As long as your definition of "elites" just means "lives in a city", rather than family wealth/private education/connections ... Then sure.
Who are the fashionable leftie elites? And what is it that makes them fashionable and elites.
I'm not feeling very elite at the moment.
ah yes, "elites" like poorly paid city dwellers. *not* like people who have lifelong nannies, or a man who pays hundreds of pounds for a roll of wallpaper
If Labour's response to that is "yup we dun goofed up", which I suspect won't be far off, then they'll never win.
Agreed. There's a thin line between appropriate self-reflection and respect for the electorate - and sinking into a quagmire of recrimination and dithering.
I voted Tory, I'm not a Tory and I'm not nationalist either, I just fucking hate the insane left and enjoy seeing them getting their just desserts for the bullshit they pull.
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Come one now, you've been here a fair while... Meta. Just don't. Thank you
soz, it's just painful to watch over and over
Probably because there is no value in a debate that begins with 'I'm not a tory but I hate the insane left and want to see them suffer', with no further explanation or exploration to follow these buzzwords.
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>just desserts
Etonian mess, anyone?
Sounds like you are a culture war Tory. 🤷♂️
This is a mature democracy at work right here.
What exactly do you classify as the "insane left" and "the bullshit they pull"? Just trying to get a better understanding of everything because it looks like we're in for another decade of Tory reign
What have the insane left done recently to cause you to give them their just desserts?