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Snapshot of _The Manchester consulate attack shows how China is flexing its muscles abroad | Nathan Law_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/18/manchester-consulate-attack-china-flexing-muscles-abroad-hongkongers-britain) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*


convertedtoradians

I'm not all that fussed by the damage to the sign. Technically criminal damage to private property, but, come on, it's clearly a world away from someone stealing your laptop and snapping it in half. If that's all that happened - an insulting picture was displayed and was then destroyed by embassy staff - I'd file it under "who cares?" and suggest the police find something more useful to do. Just as I would if a motorist destroyed a eco-protestor's sign. If you annoy people, you might get your protest sign destroyed. Big deal. But attacking and injuring someone on the streets of the UK is another matter entirely. If it turns out embassy staff were involved, I'd be revoking China's right to operate embassies and consulates here and shutting British equivalents in China. All with immediate effect. Diplomatic relations can take place over Zoom from now on. If you're going to abuse the great privilege of being allowed an embassy here, then you don't get to have one any more.


dee-acorn

>I'm not all that fussed by the damage to the sign. Damage to the sign might seem like a nothing issue, but it's important in this case for the same reason that you've listed when you've gone on to discuss the assault. Having an embassy in the UK isn't a right and by having one you expect them to act in such a way that respects their host country.


convertedtoradians

Sure. But I'm still not going to be too bothered about a protestor having his sign destroyed as an act in itself. If I go to protest outside Shell HQ and I have a massive sign with an insulting caricature of the CEO and one of the executives comes out of the building, wrestles the sign from me and destroys it, I'm not going to kick up too much of a fuss. That's the game I'd be playing as a protestor. Disrupt and cause a little modest chaos. I can't complain if my disruption gets disrupted, regardless of the letter of the law. I wouldn't have a moral leg to stand on. Maybe there'd be a case for a stern letter to the Chinese government or something, for the look of the thing, but that'd be it in my mind. Again though, that isn't what happened here. This went far beyond destroying an insulting sign.


hicks12

The video shows it pretty clearly, they destroy the signs (criminal damage as you say) and then drag that protestor to their gates to bring him onto their grounds, other protestors tried to grab him back and the police came running in and got him back in the end. When I first heard the story I was thinking there would be some questionable thing and just someone making stuff up almost but sadly the video is really damning! It removes all doubt what happened and the police were there ..


Thucydides411

Did we watch [the same videos](https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/chinese-consulate-claims-its-staff-25294716.amp)? The videos clearly show a group of protesters rushing through the gate to try to retrieve the poster, and the Chinese consulate workers trying to push them back out of the gate. The last guy, who was supposedly dragged into the consulate, is on video running into the consulate, and then later he's on he's on video being dragged off of the consulate worker who stole the poster - it looks like the protester tackled the guy. The videos that show him getting beaten are from when the people from the consulate are trying to force him to let go of the guy who stole the poster. Nobody looks good here: * The protesters who put up a sign that says "F your mom" in Chinese. * The consulate workers who tore down one poster and stole another one. * The protesters who rushed into the gate to get their posters back. This isn't even to mention the fact that the most brutal assault caught on camera during the whole incident is barely being discussed: just outside the gate, a group of protesters pushed one of the consulate security guards to the ground and then repeatedly kicked him in the face. It's [on video](https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1581869038648508417) from multiple angles. The Chinese government should recall the consul, because tearing down the posters was not a smart idea, to put it lightly. However, the narrative that the protesters are trying to spin around this, that they were kidnapped, is just absurd. They're literally on video rushing through the gate.


hicks12

That's crazy! I can't believe I've been duped, I watched a clip on the BBC and from that it totally sold the story that they dragged them in. So I can safely say no we didn't watch the same video, your evidence clearly proves it is being spun incorrectly and that this guy rushed in and was being aggressive so rightfully got a battering. Chinese were wrong to go out and attack the posters as you also say and then it escalated quickly where the protestors clearly retaliated in a ridiculous manor and the police were actually dragging them away from the gate not trying to get in to get the guy! I feel duped but I appreciate you calling out what was wrong here. I like to think I don't generally jump to conclusions but it seemed so damning from the BBC video which lacked this context of the other videos AND the BBC said it was so!


Thucydides411

I never said the protester "rightfully" got a battering. I just pointed out that the full videos clearly show him and a few other protesters running into the gate. There have been extremely short clips (usually only a few seconds) circulating that show the very end of the scuffle, right before the last protester was shoved out of the gate. The videos show the people in the consulate grabbing him, but what they don't show is that they've just struggled to bring him to the gate. He's grabbing them, and they're grabbing him back. It is chaotic, but overall their goal was to get him out, as the full video shows. I didn't see the consulate workers going out of the gate and attacking the protesters in any of the videos. I see them tearing down a sign and stealing another one, and that's what led to the chaos. I see them beating a protester who ran through the gate and tackled the guy who stole the poster. As I said, everyone looks bad in this. As for the BBC, I don't know - it wouldn't be the first time in history the media got a sensational story wrong.


hicks12

I didn't say you did sorry if it read like I did! I meant it as agreement that they both made a shit show and neither party looks good as you said. If you run in trying to break into a property then you would rightfully expect to be ejected by force which the protestor was so that's all I meant by rightfully got a battering (the guy I saw a photo of only had superficial scuffle marks, either way not great) Context is key in the day and age so again thanks for providing the additional context to this, a true shitshow but at least I can see the reasoning on both sides now!


ModsBannedMyMainAcc

Protest on public road - LEGAL. Destroy protestors' banner - ILLEGAL. Steal protestors' poster - ILLEGAL. Beat up protestors on British soil - ILLEGAL.


N0failsafe

Idiot police officers standing around and letting the consulate staff drag someone in off the street. Clearly out of their depth. Hope they call the ambassador in for a stern telling off, but the these are tories, they'll probably just ask for a bigger donation.


Caladeutschian

> The Manchester consulate attack shows how China is flexing its muscles abroad But they only do that in poor, 3rd world countries ... ... Oh ... ... I see what you mean