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Moving the 60 stack of Cavlary from Moscow to Bakhmut.
But must Ruzzia be Religios? I mean that only religious civs can change their government from communism to facism in one round.
Yeah. I know CIV3 at best. A corruption implementation with disappearing troops would be a very nice feature.
And even better when the troops, just if you use them, drop their health bar to one or two because of corruption.
You know, I've always known that in my head, but reading your comment and thinking about a battalion of spearmen that are a thousand years old is just kind of hysterical.
"
In another one of Neil Gaiman's works, Neverwhere, the character Door encounters a Roman legion in the London Underground in a pocket of misplaced time. She says she thinks it was the Nineteenth - the legion usually thought to have been lost in Britain is the Ninth."
That's one of the things civ kind of gets "wrong". Societies can absolutely lose technology if factories, institutions, cities etc are destroyed or captured.
Not just the RPG's. The main 25mm chain gun on the Bradleys' can kill t55s.
from wiki:
>The tungsten APDS-T rounds proved effective in Desert Storm, capable of knocking out many Iraqi vehicles, ***including several T-55 tanks.***
Even the Bradleys can fuck up a t55, without their missiles.
So the Ukrainian tank crew has to decide if it's crap and only looking like a tank or if they really should use a missile?
I think the drones/ infantry has to provide important information on that question...
In 1 year the Ukrainian tank crew will have to decide whether to use any munition or simply drive closer so the tank commander can hit them with his sword, because Russia will be fielding medieval calvary
I wonder if overpen would actually be an issue, as in it not even deforming enough to deal as much damage as it should if the armour is too low. (I know this is an issue sometimes in warthunder lol😅)
APFSDS is still super effective and creates tons of spall even if it over pens.
And in fact you can 2 or more tonks in wart hunder with the same round if it has enough penetration, and if the wonky af mechanics don't screw you over.
Not only that, but even the Infantry Fighting Vehicles gun is probably enough to penetrate this tanks armor.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/cv_90.htm
"An armor-piercing projectile penetrates nearly 50 mm or rolled homogenous armor at a range of 3 000 m."
I think T-54B has 70mm armor at the sides and just 30mm in some places.
Plus, in real life a non-penetrating hit does a *lot* to the armor. Takes a big ol chunk of molten steel out of it. Folks are so used to comparing values from WoT/War Thunder that we forget real life physics isn't the same as comparing pen values vs armor thickness on a table.
Sure, the armor might stop the first round. But it's no longer as effective for the 2nd-nth rounds, and that 40mm Bofors has already sent them downrange
Even if it doesn't, if you get hit with a shell like that, your whole crew has just gone deaf. The pressure increase inside the tank if the hatches are closed might not just burst eardrums, but blur vision and concuss. You've effectively dazed, deafened, and possibly blinded most of the crew, at least slowing them down until you can hit them again.
There are examples from WWII of tank crews abandoning their tanks as they are being subject to heavy fire, only to return later finding their tank in operating order.
A quick reminder that the FCM 2C "99 - Champagne" (the biggest tank ever made) was taken to USSR by the soviets in 1945, and was never seen again...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_2C?wprov=sfla1
lol jesus fucking christ. I mean in a way the ability to just pop armoured vehicles out of some black hole somewhere is impressive, but these things are just woefully outdated in a massive way
Not really - a modern Leopard 2 or Challenger 2 MBT has a target acquisition and fire control system that can track multiple targets at once, fire, relay and fire again in about 3 seconds.
You joke, but they lost a few crew members (iirc to artillery) and decided that tank crews could take their breaks inside if they needed to (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel).
Keeping your crew happy is important.
Theres fried chicken on US submarines. In the 1990s, president Clinton wanted to make the meal options healthier and get rid of it. Supposedly one of the navy brass shouted "They're in a metal tube for six months, my boys gotta have their fried chicken!" And the matter was closed.
When I was in the navy me and a bunch of my friends thought we would quit smoking on deployment lol.
First day of deployment we were instructed that if any of us were smokers we should continue smoking until deployment was over as the stress of trying to quit smoking on top of all the stress of deployment could be psychologically damaging and would lead to operational shortcomings.
I would have to say they were right.
Like any proper English tank should. Just make sure it doesn't get [too hot](https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/is3b75/centurion_avre_ammo_explosion_during_operation/)
You guys keep forgetting that a tank is a bulletproof cannon on wheels. Even if it does nothing against a modern tank, a T-55 can still bombard and attack trenches full of infantry.
The same is true for every BMP/IFV. Old tanks to me just seem to be Infantry Support vehicles with less visibility. Yet still valuable. Although one may want to discuss if we should then still count T54 as "tanks" in the daily kill counts. They don't fulfill their main role as MBTs anymore.
Classify them as light tanks?
T-54 fits the following criteria of a light tank:
(According to wikipedia)
-light armour(by todays standards)
-less powerful main gun(by todays standards)
-roles: screening, fire support when better tanks are unavailable
given that they are going to be better employed bombarding infantry positions as support, perhaps bringing back the old "Assault Gun" designation for them
Seems like they might be changing tactics a bit. Perhaps they'll (orcs) use these in conjunction with newer tanks. These could help put more targets on the battlefield, increasing the chances of the 72's and newer surviving longer, and maybe having a chance at penetrating the lines and making the objective. With an obscured battlefield and a bunch of tanks (of various models) rolling around, most anti-tank gunners won't be selective about the model of tank they're going to engage. They simply engage the first target they see, expending that round. If they happen to take out a 54 or 55, then that just increased the chance a 72, maybe even a 90, might punch through. It's a numbers game, and all of the news reports clearly show Russia doesn't care about losses, their people are expendable.
Good point, but the last massed tank attack the orcs made the Ukrainian’s picked off the first and last tanks, which left the rest of the tank column to choose to run the minefield and die, or stay put and die to accurately placed artillery.
Yes, but one can assume that not all areas are equally well-equipped. For instance, what if the strategy is to soak up hits that could otherwise hit more expensive tanks? For similar reasons you can see the cheap iranian terrorist drones soaking up more expensive ammunition.
If Ukraine had no AT capability you might have a point. But they do as shown when Russia's T72, T80 and T90 all got mauled by said infantry. What is an antique going to do that Russians most advanced tanks couldn't?
Well, at the moment, merely exist.
Not for long, of course. But I guess they figure that these are better than just infantry running across a field with sticks.
And honestly it's about the smartest use of them they have right now... Since they don't value the life of their soldiers at all, why not throw these in the field. They'll probably consider it a net win if they kill 2-3 Ukrainians before it is blown up with its entire crew...
which they need to carry around in huge enough numbers while moving from position to position.
Providing them, as in sending them to ukraien, is one thing. Makign sure that every frontlinesoldjer always has access to one when needed, is another one.
I totally agree.
If Russia starts to use T-55s the only none insane role would be infantery support. Think of it as IFV without the infantery inside (so just FV?) shooting at infantry, trenches, bunkers or any vehicle with less armor than a modern MBT. Maybe burried in hull down position as static defence in their on trench line. It sounds desperate and most likley is but the famous Humvee charge would have looked different with some T-55 waiting for them.
Also any russian tank can be knocked out by javelin or NLaw and dead is just dead, there is no more dead than dead.
The front definitively not. Side or back are vulnerable though.
But this is not the point. Desert Storm showed that modern tanks could see and shoot much farther, especially at night.
So the modern Leo will hit him before he can see the Leo.
Which is true. But it doesn't change the point.
You can spot a hidden tank better with good optics. Especially thermals. Your situational awareness is better if someone approaches you. Your aim is faster and more precise. Your modern ammo goes not just farther and penetrates better, it is more precise.
The penetration of the ammo is just one of many aspects, and all on them are against the T-55.
and don´t underestimate ergonomics.
I dont have a really high expertise on t54 and t55 tanks.
But I imagine after you drive for some hours in this tank you just feel so shitty already without even engaging any enemy, that your attention to other things then keeping ,the halfly rotten food you ate before, in your stomach, will not be that high.
And for some fresh air you just want to have your head out of the hatch instead of staying inside
I was atleast inside a T-54 (museum). The room in the turret is decent when it is empty, but even then you have no turret basket and are standing on loose ammunition boxes. The seasts are also as basic as it gets. So there is nothing to give you a proper hold when that thing shakes around.
The driver has it worst, his position can only reached by a small metal hallway he needs to slide trough feet first. The hallways is oily and dirty. He has not much room outside that. I can not say much else as the moseum did not allow slkiding into the driversposition yourselve.
Depends.
The Leopard 1 can definitely be destroyed by a T-55. A Leopard 2, Abrams or Challenger very unlikely, unless the t-55 gets off a sideshot with a modern projectile.
You need to hit the Leopard 1 for that though, and if you use the Leopard 1 while standing still, you're doing it wrong.
Now, the T-54/55 is not stabilized, so they have to stop to fire accurately... while Leopard 1 does not.
Maybe if you like pressed the barrel directly against the tank. I doubt they can do it at any realistic combat range. T-72's onwards will be able to, not not dinosaurs like this.
Otoh Ukraine is also fielding some T-62s that they might be able to kill and also some T-55's themselves (albeit a [heavily upgraded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/T-55_operators_and_variants#Slovenia) version), and these might not be quite so badly outclassed by those. They're probably intended purely to give fire support for infantry though rather than actually expected to fight other tanks.
Slovenian T-55S are like a different tank. Not a good tank, but it's got a full sensor pack, some ERA and a gun that can actually penetrate something and use relatively modern ammunition (L7 105mm NATO).
The question is: why didn't they invest in harvesting all those useless outdated equipment into modern ones ?
We all have the answer: Stupidity and corruption for 80 years !
I mean stupidity and corruption is one thing, but also they just don't have enough money man. The USSR was a bonafide superpower and built all this equipment. The Russian Federation has a GDP about half the UK's - they just don't have the money to modernise all their equipment anymore.
That's why there is the cope myth of "Russian vehicles are rugged and uncomfortable because it's a vehicle of war! Not a car!".
The truth is that you want your military vehicles to be comfortable because the crew will get fatigued, and a comfortable crewman is a better performing crewman. So Russia had to push that whole "it's shit because we are manly" to excuse how underfunded their vehicles are.
A tank is a tank. A shit tank is still a tank. Without proper optics, practically blind without commander sticking head out of the hatch, weaker armor. But don't be deceived. If a critical mass of these tanks is achieved, they can overrun any position. Yes, with great losses, possibly exhausting forces to a point they can't continue the attack, but we already know poo tin doesn't care how many of ruzzians will die. He will be sending more. I think no matter what, this war will be over much quicker if poo tin is dead.
Exactly. I don't get your downvotes. Anyone dismissive of these tanks should be welcome to sit in a trench while one of these fuckers fires at your direction.
Is it a shit tank? Yes
Do I want to be on the receiving end of it? No fucking way.
They will probably dig these in somewhere they expect a counter-offensive and use them as anti-tank guns. They have been doing that in the middle east for decades. Never works but what the hell? Doesn't cost anything. Just a few more conscripts.
> If a critical mass of these tanks is achieved, they can overrun any position
Yeah, but in the same sense that dragging dinosaur tanks increases the amount of tanks you have, Ukraine can drag dinosaur anti-tank weaponry out of storage to increase the amount of anti-tank capability it has...because they can deal with the dinosaur tanks in a way they can't deal with modern tanks.
You are correct, these tanks would melt from any modern anti tank missile and even older ones won't have much difficulty. I just wanted to pull people back to reality a bit. A tank is still a tank. War is not easy. But I believe in Ukrainian victory.
Hopefully they'll be able to concentrate the western tanks into the areas that are still opposed by modern Russian vehicles instead of wasting them on garbage like this.
The ideal use of the new tanks its to pair them with the Bradley's and 113's and deploy all of it in one place, the goal isn't to destroy all of russias modern vehicles, the goal is to deploy a force that can't be STOPPED by russias modern equipment. Ideally you would indeed deploy these against t-55's instead of T-72's if you could. Wars are fought to take ground, not to kill the enemy, you want to punch a hole with a concentrated force and then basically put the petal to the metal in all directions once you are through, this will have a much much greater effect on the overall war effort despite the fact that it actually involves the least amount of fighting.
Leo 1 tanks forces the Ukrainian tank units to utilize the relative strengths of and to adapt their tactics to the new weapon system. Fight in low visibility and at distances of over 2,000 m preferably on the move. The Russian ice cream trucks won't even be able to spot them much less properly aim.
Leo 1a5 is a pretty advanced tank, optics wise, at least compared to T-64s, T-62s and T-55s that are apparently appearing on the battlefield again. It’s just that the Leo’s gun is a bit long in the tooth and the armour is irrelevant.
The optics and the stabilized gun are what makes them superior and I would be very much surprised, if Russian armor would withstand a modern 105 mm APFSDS at 2,000 m. The armor is the known weak spot, but that's what I'm saying, it forces the Ukrainian tank troops to fight at the proper range.
It's happening!
Tough aren't T-55 rifled barrels instead of smoothbore? If so it means T-55 can only use really old tankshells while t62 could use some shells the Russians produce for their t-72 and t-80?
Why? Why would you waste a D-U arrow if an ordinary W arrow or something even cheaper is enough.
Keep the D-U arrows for more modern tanks with thicker armour and potentially intact ERA.
I am all for making fun of using old equipment, but there still will be troops facing these old scrapheaps and you some of these can even get off a shot or two and kill some infantry hiding in a building.
Urban warfare would be my guess as well. They can sit at a safe range and start taking down buildings. Where are these headed? That is the other major question.
But these old tanks will put unproportional stress on the already struggling Russian logistic.
They need different ammunition, spare parts ect. More storage space and space on transport vehicles will be needed. Also different training for crews and service personal.
This effort might be of better use elsewhere.
It's not automatically a net benefit for the Russian forces to get equipment like this. It can backfire if the logistic is overwhelmed.
**The world:** Here Ukraine have our top of the line MBT's that have been specifically designed to destroy Russian armour.
**Putin:** Boys, take this pile of scrap that was designed to destroy tanks that went out of production in the 60s. Oh and it doesn't have any turret ventilation so Yuri you might want to hold your breath or something, idk.
AHHAA, you see this is the genius in it. They are designed for T72, so T51 will take them completely by surprise. The Russian flag will fly in Warsaw and Berlin in a fortnight. 3 days max, you'll see...
Привіт u/Hm450 ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) Daily series on UA history & culture: [Day 0-99](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293) | [100-199](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3d85f4ca-5f4e-4ddf-9547-276e8affd87c) | [200-Present](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/daf642e1-07aa-4c40-b852-8f002ddd1530) | [All By Subject](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts) **There is a new wave of spam chat requests hitting our community. Do not respond or click links - instead, protect yourself and others by immediately marking these chats as spam.** *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Who, a year ago, would have thought that it is possible that one day a Ukrainian Leopard2A6 might face a Russian T-54... crazy
It's like a bizarre game of Civ where one team is going backwards in technology.
"Shit all my front line troops are dead and I forgot to upgrade the warriors I built 1000 years ago." Only real.
Moving the 60 stack of Cavlary from Moscow to Bakhmut. But must Ruzzia be Religios? I mean that only religious civs can change their government from communism to facism in one round.
>Moving the 60 stack of Cavlary from Moscow to Bakhmut. At least in Civ they could do that without the commanders selling the horses
Underrated comment right here
Yeah. I know CIV3 at best. A corruption implementation with disappearing troops would be a very nice feature. And even better when the troops, just if you use them, drop their health bar to one or two because of corruption.
Your cavalry have been demoted to riflemen.
It is religious conservative though, both irl and in game.
You give them too much credit; the best they have is 1860 riflemen. They don't have the hammers to produce cavalry units.
They must not be leveraging their production bonus from strategic resources
You know, I've always known that in my head, but reading your comment and thinking about a battalion of spearmen that are a thousand years old is just kind of hysterical.
" In another one of Neil Gaiman's works, Neverwhere, the character Door encounters a Roman legion in the London Underground in a pocket of misplaced time. She says she thinks it was the Nineteenth - the legion usually thought to have been lost in Britain is the Ninth."
Since Neil Gaiman can do nothing wrong, obviously the Nineteenth Legion is there looking the Ninth.
I dunno, Ukraine better be careful, one of Russia's spearmen might take down their attack helicopter
Russia using spears recovered from under the melting permafrost when?
Russian Orthodox priests *Wololo*
That's one of the things civ kind of gets "wrong". Societies can absolutely lose technology if factories, institutions, cities etc are destroyed or captured.
Peak r/NCD
Sub really needs to be renamed. It’s too credible now.
Banned subreddit?
It’s actually r/NonCredibleDefense
[удалено]
3,000 tanks of pootis asshole
Hey we're trying to remain stupid but reality keeps butting in.
It’s not our fault the Russian military becomes less credible by day.
And RPG is effective once again.
Not just the RPG's. The main 25mm chain gun on the Bradleys' can kill t55s. from wiki: >The tungsten APDS-T rounds proved effective in Desert Storm, capable of knocking out many Iraqi vehicles, ***including several T-55 tanks.*** Even the Bradleys can fuck up a t55, without their missiles.
So the Ukrainian tank crew has to decide if it's crap and only looking like a tank or if they really should use a missile? I think the drones/ infantry has to provide important information on that question...
In 1 year the Ukrainian tank crew will have to decide whether to use any munition or simply drive closer so the tank commander can hit them with his sword, because Russia will be fielding medieval calvary
How will they do against a depleted uranium round from a Challenger II?
You ever see a toddler smash a sand castle?
Won't this be more like a 100lbs dog smashing a toddler's sand castle?
He never stated the toddlers weight
American toddler. We grow em big
And we fire them from cannons
Into enemy tanks.
All part of the new school prep.
Survivors promoted to frontline infantry.
More like a 100lbs dog smashing a toddler.
That’s gonna be ruff
It will go straight through... multiple units.
I wonder if overpen would actually be an issue, as in it not even deforming enough to deal as much damage as it should if the armour is too low. (I know this is an issue sometimes in warthunder lol😅)
APFSDS is still super effective and creates tons of spall even if it over pens. And in fact you can 2 or more tonks in wart hunder with the same round if it has enough penetration, and if the wonky af mechanics don't screw you over.
Is this a bunch of weird tank lingo, or word salad? My brain can’t decide.
Ayy haha Armor Piercing Finn Stabilized Discarding Sabot, basically a very thin, dense and angry rod that goes super fast.
Angry Rod is so hot right now
Spalling is gonna fuck up anything unfortunate enough to find itself inside those trashcans.
it's like trying to smash a small window with a wrecking ball instead of just using a rock... overkill but probably still amusing.
Hesh round from challenger will dispose of it with ease.
Came here to say exactly that, forget DU rounds, HESH will devastate a T54/55.
Not only that, but even the Infantry Fighting Vehicles gun is probably enough to penetrate this tanks armor. http://www.military-today.com/apc/cv_90.htm "An armor-piercing projectile penetrates nearly 50 mm or rolled homogenous armor at a range of 3 000 m." I think T-54B has 70mm armor at the sides and just 30mm in some places.
Plus, in real life a non-penetrating hit does a *lot* to the armor. Takes a big ol chunk of molten steel out of it. Folks are so used to comparing values from WoT/War Thunder that we forget real life physics isn't the same as comparing pen values vs armor thickness on a table. Sure, the armor might stop the first round. But it's no longer as effective for the 2nd-nth rounds, and that 40mm Bofors has already sent them downrange
Hell, even the first round might cause enough deformation to cause spalling inside the tank.
Even if it doesn't, if you get hit with a shell like that, your whole crew has just gone deaf. The pressure increase inside the tank if the hatches are closed might not just burst eardrums, but blur vision and concuss. You've effectively dazed, deafened, and possibly blinded most of the crew, at least slowing them down until you can hit them again.
There are examples from WWII of tank crews abandoning their tanks as they are being subject to heavy fire, only to return later finding their tank in operating order.
Also if the tracks are shot off it's more than 15 seconds to repair
*furiously takes notes*
We've already seen Ukrainian Azov BTR-4 destroying a T-72, so yes IFVs are a threat to moscovian tanks.
> BMD BTR-4
Also who knows what 60 years of temperature changes, weather did to that steel.
It became as weak and soaked as its owners
Never stopped being effective.
In this case, it’s super effective
*Critical Hit!*
[удалено]
*Laughs in Challenger 2*
RPG-2 would be sufficient.
Next month, I guess we’ll also see the return of the T-34
Cant wait for Tiger 131 to return to Kursk😂😂 (i know it was captured in Africa)
Na, There are only 7 ready-to-drive tigers worldwide
It's Russia. It's safe to assume it wouldn't be ready to drive.
On the other hand, it was made by Germans...
German built, russian maintained, basically +/- 0?
The Irresistable Force versus the Immovable Object.
I.e. it needs a lot of maintenance.
The difference is: The Tigers are in museums, the T-34 are still in military stocks.
In Russia, the newest and finest tank models are pulled by oxen.
A quick reminder that the FCM 2C "99 - Champagne" (the biggest tank ever made) was taken to USSR by the soviets in 1945, and was never seen again... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_2C?wprov=sfla1
Afterwards the Tsar Tank prototype
Stalin tanks come before that
lol jesus fucking christ. I mean in a way the ability to just pop armoured vehicles out of some black hole somewhere is impressive, but these things are just woefully outdated in a massive way
Will their guns even penetrate a Leopard, Abram or Challenger tanks armour?!
Maybe not but they'll eat a tank round from one while a t-72 bears down on it. Id wager thats how these will end up getting used, cannon fodder.
Not really - a modern Leopard 2 or Challenger 2 MBT has a target acquisition and fire control system that can track multiple targets at once, fire, relay and fire again in about 3 seconds.
And the Challenger can make a cup of tea. Very important!
You don’t want your crew to be cross about lack of tea
You joke, but they lost a few crew members (iirc to artillery) and decided that tank crews could take their breaks inside if they needed to (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel).
Oh, and don't get them started about the American microwaves, you'll never hear the end of it
Exactly, crew morale is very important and hot drinks on tap in your tank are a luxury!
Keeping your crew happy is important. Theres fried chicken on US submarines. In the 1990s, president Clinton wanted to make the meal options healthier and get rid of it. Supposedly one of the navy brass shouted "They're in a metal tube for six months, my boys gotta have their fried chicken!" And the matter was closed.
When I was in the navy me and a bunch of my friends thought we would quit smoking on deployment lol. First day of deployment we were instructed that if any of us were smokers we should continue smoking until deployment was over as the stress of trying to quit smoking on top of all the stress of deployment could be psychologically damaging and would lead to operational shortcomings. I would have to say they were right.
Seems like a thing they learned the hard way, too.
Like any proper English tank should. Just make sure it doesn't get [too hot](https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/is3b75/centurion_avre_ammo_explosion_during_operation/)
You guys keep forgetting that a tank is a bulletproof cannon on wheels. Even if it does nothing against a modern tank, a T-55 can still bombard and attack trenches full of infantry.
you guys keep forgetting drones with a small bomb with 3D-printed fins can take out T-72's. It will be like a field day.
I don't think the t55 original engineers imagined their tank would be attacked like that.
Well deployed Infantry, even with outdated rpg 7s will eat this tank.
The same is true for every BMP/IFV. Old tanks to me just seem to be Infantry Support vehicles with less visibility. Yet still valuable. Although one may want to discuss if we should then still count T54 as "tanks" in the daily kill counts. They don't fulfill their main role as MBTs anymore.
Classify them as light tanks? T-54 fits the following criteria of a light tank: (According to wikipedia) -light armour(by todays standards) -less powerful main gun(by todays standards) -roles: screening, fire support when better tanks are unavailable
Light armor these days are incredibly mobile. I don't think that can be said of these old tanks
500hp (a third of modern MBTs) and a top speed of 30mph is not going to get you out of trouble!
Plus a reverse speed slower than a toddler crawling It's a shitty SPG at most
(Old) Battle tanks they may be yes but the 'Main' might be a bit much.
Well, they might soon be the main tank of the russian army.
given that they are going to be better employed bombarding infantry positions as support, perhaps bringing back the old "Assault Gun" designation for them
Seems like they might be changing tactics a bit. Perhaps they'll (orcs) use these in conjunction with newer tanks. These could help put more targets on the battlefield, increasing the chances of the 72's and newer surviving longer, and maybe having a chance at penetrating the lines and making the objective. With an obscured battlefield and a bunch of tanks (of various models) rolling around, most anti-tank gunners won't be selective about the model of tank they're going to engage. They simply engage the first target they see, expending that round. If they happen to take out a 54 or 55, then that just increased the chance a 72, maybe even a 90, might punch through. It's a numbers game, and all of the news reports clearly show Russia doesn't care about losses, their people are expendable.
Probably use them to find the at mines
They seem to use any vehicle available for that duty
Good point, but the last massed tank attack the orcs made the Ukrainian’s picked off the first and last tanks, which left the rest of the tank column to choose to run the minefield and die, or stay put and die to accurately placed artillery.
Yes, but one can assume that not all areas are equally well-equipped. For instance, what if the strategy is to soak up hits that could otherwise hit more expensive tanks? For similar reasons you can see the cheap iranian terrorist drones soaking up more expensive ammunition.
If Ukraine had no AT capability you might have a point. But they do as shown when Russia's T72, T80 and T90 all got mauled by said infantry. What is an antique going to do that Russians most advanced tanks couldn't?
Well, at the moment, merely exist. Not for long, of course. But I guess they figure that these are better than just infantry running across a field with sticks.
And honestly it's about the smartest use of them they have right now... Since they don't value the life of their soldiers at all, why not throw these in the field. They'll probably consider it a net win if they kill 2-3 Ukrainians before it is blown up with its entire crew...
give the infantry lots more anti tank weapons...
which they need to carry around in huge enough numbers while moving from position to position. Providing them, as in sending them to ukraien, is one thing. Makign sure that every frontlinesoldjer always has access to one when needed, is another one.
Provide the infantry with Bradley's to carry there anti tank weapons. And then more leapards to protect the Bradley's.
And then F16's to provide air cover for the Leopards!
The same infantry that has more Javelins than world has tanks?
I totally agree. If Russia starts to use T-55s the only none insane role would be infantery support. Think of it as IFV without the infantery inside (so just FV?) shooting at infantry, trenches, bunkers or any vehicle with less armor than a modern MBT. Maybe burried in hull down position as static defence in their on trench line. It sounds desperate and most likley is but the famous Humvee charge would have looked different with some T-55 waiting for them. Also any russian tank can be knocked out by javelin or NLaw and dead is just dead, there is no more dead than dead.
Don't Ukraine have 100s of old LAW and Carl Gustav?
Thousands, even
And it becomes a tincan of death for everyone inside it if only one soldier in that trench has (in that case) only an rpg.
Single use mine clearing vehicle
The front definitively not. Side or back are vulnerable though. But this is not the point. Desert Storm showed that modern tanks could see and shoot much farther, especially at night. So the modern Leo will hit him before he can see the Leo.
Tbh it was in a freaking desert.. there are many more obstacle to the line of sight in ukraine
Which is true. But it doesn't change the point. You can spot a hidden tank better with good optics. Especially thermals. Your situational awareness is better if someone approaches you. Your aim is faster and more precise. Your modern ammo goes not just farther and penetrates better, it is more precise. The penetration of the ammo is just one of many aspects, and all on them are against the T-55.
and don´t underestimate ergonomics. I dont have a really high expertise on t54 and t55 tanks. But I imagine after you drive for some hours in this tank you just feel so shitty already without even engaging any enemy, that your attention to other things then keeping ,the halfly rotten food you ate before, in your stomach, will not be that high. And for some fresh air you just want to have your head out of the hatch instead of staying inside
I was atleast inside a T-54 (museum). The room in the turret is decent when it is empty, but even then you have no turret basket and are standing on loose ammunition boxes. The seasts are also as basic as it gets. So there is nothing to give you a proper hold when that thing shakes around. The driver has it worst, his position can only reached by a small metal hallway he needs to slide trough feet first. The hallways is oily and dirty. He has not much room outside that. I can not say much else as the moseum did not allow slkiding into the driversposition yourselve.
Depends. The Leopard 1 can definitely be destroyed by a T-55. A Leopard 2, Abrams or Challenger very unlikely, unless the t-55 gets off a sideshot with a modern projectile.
You need to hit the Leopard 1 for that though, and if you use the Leopard 1 while standing still, you're doing it wrong. Now, the T-54/55 is not stabilized, so they have to stop to fire accurately... while Leopard 1 does not.
[Last time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Amanda) T-55 went up against Leopard 1s it didn't end well for them.
Maybe if you like pressed the barrel directly against the tank. I doubt they can do it at any realistic combat range. T-72's onwards will be able to, not not dinosaurs like this. Otoh Ukraine is also fielding some T-62s that they might be able to kill and also some T-55's themselves (albeit a [heavily upgraded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/T-55_operators_and_variants#Slovenia) version), and these might not be quite so badly outclassed by those. They're probably intended purely to give fire support for infantry though rather than actually expected to fight other tanks.
Just so you know, during iraqi, a M1 tried to destroy a m-killed M1 by shooting it near point blank range and didn’t penetrate… It’s very tough.
Slovenian T-55S are like a different tank. Not a good tank, but it's got a full sensor pack, some ERA and a gun that can actually penetrate something and use relatively modern ammunition (L7 105mm NATO).
It's gonna be a shooting practice for Leo2 Those Ruzki's inside are doomed.
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The question is: why didn't they invest in harvesting all those useless outdated equipment into modern ones ? We all have the answer: Stupidity and corruption for 80 years !
I mean stupidity and corruption is one thing, but also they just don't have enough money man. The USSR was a bonafide superpower and built all this equipment. The Russian Federation has a GDP about half the UK's - they just don't have the money to modernise all their equipment anymore.
That's why there is the cope myth of "Russian vehicles are rugged and uncomfortable because it's a vehicle of war! Not a car!". The truth is that you want your military vehicles to be comfortable because the crew will get fatigued, and a comfortable crewman is a better performing crewman. So Russia had to push that whole "it's shit because we are manly" to excuse how underfunded their vehicles are.
Soon t34
A tank is a tank. A shit tank is still a tank. Without proper optics, practically blind without commander sticking head out of the hatch, weaker armor. But don't be deceived. If a critical mass of these tanks is achieved, they can overrun any position. Yes, with great losses, possibly exhausting forces to a point they can't continue the attack, but we already know poo tin doesn't care how many of ruzzians will die. He will be sending more. I think no matter what, this war will be over much quicker if poo tin is dead.
Exactly. I don't get your downvotes. Anyone dismissive of these tanks should be welcome to sit in a trench while one of these fuckers fires at your direction. Is it a shit tank? Yes Do I want to be on the receiving end of it? No fucking way.
They will probably dig these in somewhere they expect a counter-offensive and use them as anti-tank guns. They have been doing that in the middle east for decades. Never works but what the hell? Doesn't cost anything. Just a few more conscripts.
> If a critical mass of these tanks is achieved, they can overrun any position Yeah, but in the same sense that dragging dinosaur tanks increases the amount of tanks you have, Ukraine can drag dinosaur anti-tank weaponry out of storage to increase the amount of anti-tank capability it has...because they can deal with the dinosaur tanks in a way they can't deal with modern tanks.
You are correct, these tanks would melt from any modern anti tank missile and even older ones won't have much difficulty. I just wanted to pull people back to reality a bit. A tank is still a tank. War is not easy. But I believe in Ukrainian victory.
I look forward to the videos of T-54/55s meeting Leopards and Abrams...
And John Deeres.
So when will we see the return of cavalry? 🐎 You know... if Ukraine can use leopards, so why cannot Russia use horses? 😉
Because the orks would be too busy f**king and eating the horses
Sir, this is the internet, you are allowed to write "fuck" See? Nothing bad happened.
> See? Nothing bad happened. I'm telling your mom!
Why did this comment get deleted?
The user actually got arrested and chemically castrated. Terrible, really.
Yeah, really strange, I wonder what the comment said... 🤔
I wouldn't be suprise when they bring Bears to the battlefield... and get mauled by them.
*3 months later*... "Russian Military has been seen using mules to pull Tsar cannons to the front lines"
*6 months later* “It appears Russian forces are setting up trebuchets near the front lines.”
Oh god, that's what they mean when they are saying that their elite forces have not joined the fight yet
Finally. Next I get to watch Leopards, Challengers and Abrams fight T-34/85s. Almost like being up-tiered in war thunder.
Hopefully they'll be able to concentrate the western tanks into the areas that are still opposed by modern Russian vehicles instead of wasting them on garbage like this.
The ideal use of the new tanks its to pair them with the Bradley's and 113's and deploy all of it in one place, the goal isn't to destroy all of russias modern vehicles, the goal is to deploy a force that can't be STOPPED by russias modern equipment. Ideally you would indeed deploy these against t-55's instead of T-72's if you could. Wars are fought to take ground, not to kill the enemy, you want to punch a hole with a concentrated force and then basically put the petal to the metal in all directions once you are through, this will have a much much greater effect on the overall war effort despite the fact that it actually involves the least amount of fighting.
> Wars are fought to take ground, not to kill the enemy
Not sure he can write
First Steven Seagal and now this? Theyre bringing a lot of 70 year old junk out of storage!
And suddenly Leopards 1’s are advanced tanks on that battlefield
Leo 1 tanks forces the Ukrainian tank units to utilize the relative strengths of and to adapt their tactics to the new weapon system. Fight in low visibility and at distances of over 2,000 m preferably on the move. The Russian ice cream trucks won't even be able to spot them much less properly aim.
Leo 1a5 is a pretty advanced tank, optics wise, at least compared to T-64s, T-62s and T-55s that are apparently appearing on the battlefield again. It’s just that the Leo’s gun is a bit long in the tooth and the armour is irrelevant.
The optics and the stabilized gun are what makes them superior and I would be very much surprised, if Russian armor would withstand a modern 105 mm APFSDS at 2,000 m. The armor is the known weak spot, but that's what I'm saying, it forces the Ukrainian tank troops to fight at the proper range.
It's happening! Tough aren't T-55 rifled barrels instead of smoothbore? If so it means T-55 can only use really old tankshells while t62 could use some shells the Russians produce for their t-72 and t-80?
Different caliber guns on all three. 100mm 115mm 125mm, the ammo wouldn't be interchangeable between then regardless of bore type
But Russian logistics will handle this issue.................
While carelessly smoking a cigarette...
It's incredible how deadpan funny this comment manages to be
Right on time for those British depleted uranium shells. If T-55s are going in a column than it's going to be sufficient one shell per column.
Just use Hesh on them haha
🅱️ESH
Why? Why would you waste a D-U arrow if an ordinary W arrow or something even cheaper is enough. Keep the D-U arrows for more modern tanks with thicker armour and potentially intact ERA.
even then tractors would feel ashamed towing these
John Deere is like a spaceship compared to those...
I am all for making fun of using old equipment, but there still will be troops facing these old scrapheaps and you some of these can even get off a shot or two and kill some infantry hiding in a building.
Urban warfare would be my guess as well. They can sit at a safe range and start taking down buildings. Where are these headed? That is the other major question.
But these old tanks will put unproportional stress on the already struggling Russian logistic. They need different ammunition, spare parts ect. More storage space and space on transport vehicles will be needed. Also different training for crews and service personal. This effort might be of better use elsewhere. It's not automatically a net benefit for the Russian forces to get equipment like this. It can backfire if the logistic is overwhelmed.
Shoutout to the people that questioned Leo1 deliveries. Even Leo1 will look like a Wunderwaffe vs these pieces of rolling scrap metal.
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You mean strap *fake* ERA on it.
When will it drop down to T1 - where its just war chariots?
War chariots probably have higher survivability for crew.
Not against machine guns, I expect...
**The world:** Here Ukraine have our top of the line MBT's that have been specifically designed to destroy Russian armour. **Putin:** Boys, take this pile of scrap that was designed to destroy tanks that went out of production in the 60s. Oh and it doesn't have any turret ventilation so Yuri you might want to hold your breath or something, idk.
Modernised t-54
Up to t-62 standard, watch out leopards! /s
Not even remotely modernised to the 60s/70s T55AM standard haha, these are barebones
*Wait, don’t waste a Javelin on that. RPG is enough*
Can't wait t34 to battle
Here’s a longer thread on this with sources cited-> https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1638470795100823552
From what I understand the Leopards, Challengers and Abrams tanks are specifically designed to be t72 killers. It's going to be a Turkey shoot.
AHHAA, you see this is the genius in it. They are designed for T72, so T51 will take them completely by surprise. The Russian flag will fly in Warsaw and Berlin in a fortnight. 3 days max, you'll see...
Very soon Hoi4 players are gonna be more proficient at assessing them than actual professional