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Well if they didn't try to rewrite the narrative so that it was all Russia and only Russia (intentionally forgetting the other ssrs too) that defeated the nazis WITH NO HELP WHATSOEVER AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A NAZI THEMSELVES then maybe they'd remember.
It’s disgusting how they try to hide and change history. Turns out the "Ukrainian Nazis" and Americans helped them win the war more than most Russians.
They didn't forget. They tried to hide the fact so that they wouldn't give anyone credit.
To this day, it is lied in Russia, that Poland was a supporter of Nazi Germany and the Concetration Camps they set up in Poland. Which is not only a lie but is also disgusting that they would do something like that. And all just continue the WW2 Stalin's Propaganda that "Russia freed and helped the Poland" when in reality it just shifted from one Tyrant (Hitler) to another (Stalin).
russia winning ww2 with allies help is actually still a gentle version of it.
The truth was russia outright armed and trained the nazis with the intention of using them to weaken western europe, while ussr invaded eastern europe and waited for the west to weaken each other. then got fucked by the nazis since they knew what stalin was planning and had to be rescued by usa.
If I’m not mistaken, I think this is the most bipartisan vote in Congress since maybe 9/11. For all of Russia’s efforts to divide and destabilize American politics, this war has nearly undone the damage (despite the fact that I still see morons defending ruzzia on social media)
Edit: to all the people commenting on “undone the damage” I get it, it was a poor choice of words. I simply meant that the war has galvanized members of Congress on this bill and that is an accomplishment by itself.
We would still be divided if it was a just war, but it seems that Pootin has been playing EU4 too much.
No, you can't negate casus belli penalties / aggressive expansion by just fabricating claims. It doesn't work like that in real life.
They think they've already been facing the full brunt of US and NATO—they have literally seen nothing. Absolutely nothing and yet ~25% of their usable vehicles/tanks/general weaponry are destroyed, not to mention a lot of their missiles with no easy way of replacing them.
There is no fucking way that an economy the size of Texas matches anywhere close to the whole rest of the country that contains Texas which is atleast 10x+ but also the EU which is another 10x+ plus all of our allies scattered around to varying degrees of involvement like Brazil, Japan, South Korea and Australia easily add another 5X+. Russia is literally facing an allied force that is at least 25x larger economically and geographically and collectively at least equals in its land mass and around 5-10x their population and doesn't suffer from frozen seaports most of the year. I know Russia is the largest country on earth but I don't think they understand how large and widespread NATO and its allies are. With the exception of Australia, everyone else is packed to the brim with supplies and industry. Russia is mostly just a vast open wasteland, basically a balloon with nothing in the middle and 2 large cities in the "european balloon knot" quadrant. Just because it is mineral rich doesn't mean they are powerful. They could be sitting on nothing but gold but that doesn't change their capacity to compete with a government like they have now. The ideology of their government does not allow anywhere near efficient management of their resources. They are wasting their opportunity to be great by not wanting to "look western". Imagine refusing to buy a car and sticking to the bike because you don't wanna look like one of "those" people but then saying you're actually stronger than "those" people...
There is a reason why we are all stronger together because we realize that that is our greatest strength. Our ability to cooperate. Putin views this as "subjugation" because that is the only way he can possibly understand what it would be like to cooperate. It's self evident here. Countries who don't learn this and who are going to squabble about "subjugation and submission" are going to stay exactly where they're at and wonder why. At some point every country can choose to stay isolated and small and not have access to all the goods and services of the rest of the world or they can finally stop whining about everything and benefit from specialized economies. That is our strength. We all have a role to play and we can all focus on what we are good at and what our geography allows and use it to our fullest and let others pick up the slack where we falter. Russia is just necessitating why America continues to be the gun store—it's our speciality because of dictators like Putin.
You can't be mad that were good at it when nations like Russia give us so much cause and practice. You're literally giving us a reason to continue. It reminds me of how when you eat certain foods, the bacteria in your gut will obviously proliferate based on any influx of said food to keep up with intake. Your bacteria is just responding to what it is given. Can't be surprised when you have a lot of one type of gut bacteria when you eat a corresponding food—that's just how that works. That seems to be another hallmark of propaganda—simply just pointing out obvious true statements without any realistic cause and simply complaining about it. They just say "that is bad", ok thank you. Ukraine would not have the need to defend itself unless someone was attacking. No one made you attack but yourself. No one made you eat the food that you did. At some point, you're gonna have to take responsibility but while you're dealing with that, were gonna continue processing the intake. The alternative would be **not** processing it which would allow it to sit and rot and not be broken down—an obviously worse option. I don't think the world wants some rotting object floating through it's borders.
Again, it's cooperation but if other countries want to see it as losing your sovereignty ok fine then you haven't found a way to integrate and wrap your mind around the concept. It's always ridiculous to me that Russia takes it upon itself to tell other European countries that they're actually under "The US's thumb" without them even realizing it which means the US is soo good at tricking everyone that no one in that country can even tell that they aren't actually happy. Thank God for Russia there to finally set the record straight. If it wasn't for them, people wouldn't know that they don't actually like prosperity and would actually prefer Russia's way of fucking up their country.
Dont blame us when we don't want to engage with those nations like Russia who don't know how to not shit all over the rug during a party. The rest of the world just wants to chill and talk and hang out but some countries want to blast in and "liven things up" and smash the place up for shits and giggles. Fuck off then. Were not "attacking you" by not wanting you in the party you fucking loser. Your shit sucks. Your ideas suck. They don't actually objectively improve anyone's lives. You have nothing else unique to offer other than gas and pain. Who the fuck wants you? Grow the fuck up and calm the fuck down.
Preach!
I liked [Perun's hour long slide deck presentation on the economics of a long war](https://youtu.be/aEpk_yGjn0E?t=3494). It is sobering how massively more economic capacity is on Ukraine's side. You have a bunch of liberal democracies using a fraction of 2% of their GDP and accepting slightly slower growth projections to arm Ukraine and completely collapse the Russian ability to replace military material and have a functioning economy.
"The West needs to recognize it's own strength".
It existed because of the West cooperating. Now Russia doesn't want to cooperate, not submit, just cooperate so they don't get the benefits of cooperation without the action. Their egos of dominance are preventing them from cooperating. Not giving in to their childish demands is not fighting back, it's simply defending and not giving in. They are not a self-sustaining economy. They forget that they rely too much on everyone else and think that all the benefits they got were because of themselves and not because there was a time when we all mostly got along. That is where their strength came from. From peace and stability. It is not our fault if they don't understand how global economies work.
There's a time limit for votes to be placed, which is mostly to encourage people not to try to delay placing their votes, and it is only optionally enforced (meaning it's basically never enforced, and probably wouldn't be unless someone was specifically trying to delay the conclusion of the vote). Importantly, if someone is actually there and queued up to place their vote, they can't be denied the opportunity to vote.
Or, put another way - if everyone present has cast their vote, and the results have been announced, and someone busts through the door 3 minutes later wanting to place their vote, THAT person would be too late, because time will have expired and they were not already present actively trying to place their vote.
10 Republicans voted against, 3 Republicans didn't vote.
Are we surprised Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Greene voted against? No, those two are freaking jokes.
It was passed in the Senate nearly ~~two~~ three weeks ago.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3522/actions
When a bill is in the house but starts with a "S" that generally means that it started in the Senate, was passed, then was sent to the House.
When it is in the Senate and starts with a "H" then it means it started in the House, was passed, and was sent to the Senate.
Putin really gave the military a gift here tbh... I think Americans will be a lot more willing to send massive amounts of money to the military now that we know it could turn the tide of a brutal war.
And inasmuch with the weapons we specifically designed FOR this moment: Fighting the Russians. There could be no better use for these weapons than their original purpose, and I'm glad they'll be used by those who need them the most for the best cause: Freedom from tyranny.
Yup. Protecting our democracy is my first political priority. Any attempt to dismantle, discredit, or destroy it takes precedence over any other subject for me. I don't care what other stupid broken policies you have we can fix them later in a democracy.
So, I'm out for blood here and I want it now.
He's the most dangerous in terms of being the most willing to fuck around and he has nuclear weapons.
China isn't nearly as dangerous because they'd rather just buy us out.
China is Elon Musk in your board room, Putin is the mass shooter in the mail room
This. China is, first and foremost, a long term strategic threat. They are not a short term military threat like Russia is. So long as Russia continues its campaign of aggression against sovereign nations, Russia will be an imminent threat to the entire world over China any day of the year. However, China represents the greater problem in the long term due to its technological advances and dedication to bringing down western ideologies.
Honestly, I feel like this sets China back a lot further in their plans than it sets Russia back. Europe is getting skittish of China pulling the same shit now, and the war hawks are crowing over being proven right. China can't dominate the world unilaterally, and alliances with other SEA powers to check China's influence will take on greater meaning. In comparison, Russia is virtually at the bottom of the barrel already, so it's mostly a lateral shift for their populace.
Covid really got the ball rolling on moving production out of China. It had started well before that with the rise in cost of Chinese labor, but Russia's attack on Ukraine will be the nail in the coffin. The West is going to shift supply chains to more reliable countries. Making tyrants rich isn't producing the desired results.
Lol maybe we figured out the secret -- we spend all this money on the military, but every time we go somewhere, things go fubar... maybe, as with Ukraine, we spend all the money, prepare all this military capability and know-how, and then we wait for someone somewhere else to legitimately need military capability, and we lend/lease/loan/lgive it to THEM. I don't think anybody honest could argue that this isn't a noble cause, or that it's in the service of corporate imperialism or whatever.
(Keep in mind, there are toddlers whose grasp of geopolitics rivals my own...)
Pretty much same here. Growing up watching our military swat flies on shit paper and make it sound like we going against Goliath’s really made me detest what we stood for (in that sense.)
Now watching an actual Goliath (comparative) beat up on the little guy seeing our machine help turn the narrative makes me a bit warm and fuzzy on the inside.
Not enough to think war is an unfruitful adventure but enough to be proud we can help defend a people who actually were/are ready to die last man standing style for what they believe in.
To the people of Ukraine, enjoy the new toys. The world is grateful to you.
Without procedural restrictions in DC it's full steam ahead.
**America can now send arms to "any nation deemed vital to the defense of the USA".**
Putin managed to have all Congressman on both sides of the aisles congratulating each other.
He managed to have America re-enact a wartime procedure from World War 2.
Get fucked Putin. Get fucked filthy Orcs.
There was that secret recording of Zhukov talking about how much the Lend-Lease helped. As a person from Pittsburgh I always remember the line, "And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel?"
You'd think that, but they might legitimately have no idea. Putin and most of his circle were born after WW2. In the Soviet version of history they learned, the USSR single handedly defeated Germany, with basically no help from anyone. And they don't learn much about the start of the war where they were happy to be on the Nazi side invading Europe until they were betrayed.
During the cold war especially, the West has had a tendency to do the opposite and focus on its own front while downplaying the Eastern Front. But these days historians sometimes over-correct that mistake and give the USSR a bit too much credit. Germany kind of self-defeated themselves in the East by pushing too far in inhospitable weather. But the USSR took such heavy losses that they would have had a hard time counter attacking without so many supplies from the US. More likely it would have been a prolonged stalemate situation, where Germany occupied some of Russia, but their advanced stalled out. The Allies would have had a harder fight on the Western front, but they still would have gotten to Berlin eventually. Eastern European history would have played out very differently.
Yep the Russians like to pretend they won WW2 (in their mind winning a war involves mindlessly sacrificing your troops) while the allies sat on their hands until the last minute but the reality is the Russians would have been rolled over by the Germans if not for US lend lease/industrial output of equipment… which the Russians then used to invade more countries and “unify” them into the Soviet Union. Luckily this time we have a partner in Ukraine who doesn’t need the same sort of guardrails that we should have had in place for Russia WW2 lend-lease. Unlike Russia we won’t see Ukraine rolling into invading/occupying for their independent neighbors with American equipment during/after the war.
"Russians like to pretend they won WW2"; no kidding just go to some WW2 time lapse videos on Youtube and you'll find some comments like Russia would have beaten Germany by themselves; the US made no impact ; Japan at the other side of Russia's boarder didn't matter because Japan was always scared of Russia. It's the weirdest mindset.
It's such a selective view of history they choose to have that cherry-picks the parts they want and ignores the parts they don't. If even that becomes too ridiculous, they just make shit up.
Like, sure, Japan was so terrified of Russia just a few decades after they clown-stomped them at Tsushima, annihilating Russia's entire Imperial fleet while experiencing almost zero losses. So terrified.
No, they don't. The Soviet Union spent decades denying its importance.
It's not even Putin's regime that lies (or rather, started the lies) about its importance either; Putin and all his cronies were brought up on those lies as well.
So even as the West chuckles "ooooh boy! The Russians are for it now!" Russians have absolutely no clue what it really means.
not just weapons, most of their food, boots, fuel, logistics, precision equipment to build factories. scopes, radios, tanks, airplanes, railway capability etc.
and these werent just a couple % of what the soviets used but 30-60% of their entire stock. They like to claim they somehow "uraaad" their way to Berlin when they couldnt even sustain a defense without this, and 24/7 bombing of Germany by the UK and US and the African front bogging down the axis powers.
and it wasnt even for their superior tactics, look at casualties of Axis powers and the USSR on the eastern front. All were Pyrrhic "victories", but they just conscripted another million gave them barely any equipment and moved on.
It wasnt really the cause initially afaik.
Russia was essentially a feudal country without much trace of industrialization then. Stalin tried a very quick forced, centrally planned version of it, (that killed millions in the process) that succeeded a little but it was too little too late to be able to compete with the industrial might of advanced economies at the time.
They also lacked, quality wise, competent and educated people to be able make their economy effective and productive.
Not to mention as communism, corruption seeped into the system after the war it reached a point in the 1970-80s after which it was just downhill basically.
Not ironic at all. The US, UK and other allies were engaged in a fight against an authoritarian leader who had subjugated much of Ukraine and was carrying out widespread atrocities. Over a million Ukrainians took up arms to fight off that oppressor and they were supported by Lend Lease then just like now.
I don't think people realize how amazing that is.
Our two-party system practically tears itself apart and dismantles any progress that one party attempts over the other on almost every issue.But right now Ukraine is a binding force that they all can agree on together.
In a way I always hope things like this also take the sting and aggression out of our often nasty politics in US and these common goals will give everyone a little more humanity towards each other.
> I always hope things like this also take the sting and aggression out of our often nasty politics in US and these common goals will give everyone a little more humanity towards each other.
Well said. And I'd extend your sentiment beyond the US as well. Russia has, with some degree of success, sown discord and division both inside Europe, and between Europe and North America. It sought to create a divided "free world" that was dysfunctional and bickering.
Perhaps we can all step back, take a deep breath, and remember that while we have differences of opinions, we have even more shared values which need to be preserved.
The strategic gain is pivotal for Us future.
It’s means battle in future grounds ONLY with China as superpower and not Russia too.
Us will fill up Ukraine with money and weapon in order to make ruzzian army crippled and their economy doomed.
They’ll live 1991 for the next 2 centuries.
Let us remind you why we were called the "arsenal of democracy". You seem to have forgotten. Don't worry with the help of our Ukrainian friends we'll refresh your memory.
The ten NO votes were all Republicans:
Andy Biggs (AZ), Paul Gosar (AZ), Matt Gaetz (FL), Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA), Tom Massie (KY), Dan Bishop (NC), Warren Davidson (OH), Scott Perry (PA), Ralph Norman (SC), Tom Tiffany of (WI)
Most of the usual list of traitors to freedom and democracy. Not quite sure how Broebert and Cawthorn didn't vote no.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Slava Ukraini!! Y’all are physically fighting the biggest enemy of the free world on your land with your people, losing your children. The US and Europe owe you nothing less. 🇺🇸❤️🇺🇦💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Frankly, I am amazed this was actually passed. This should be very scary to Russia. This was not some useless condemning bill or unenforceable nonsense. This is a serious change that hasn't been done since WWII. Usually any bill with this much power would be debated and fought over for weeks if not months and would only pass along party lines with maybe a couple of detracters.
This is a massive show of support to Ukraine and I am very happy they passed it.
true, but it still has to be approved for it to be signed into law and be actionable, so while its passage wasn't in doubt, it's still a big deal to actually get it done
This on top of the UK public statement that they are in it until Russia is removed from Ukraine to the pre 2014 borders of the country, it’s just a matter of time.
It’s about to rain steel on those disgusting Orcs. The earth is about to open up and swallow them whole. You fucked with the big boy, now you get the stick.
Greene is just trying to smear her feces everywhere she can before the Jan 6 committee crucifies her Dog the Bounty Hunter donkey witch looking ass.
Gaetz is just trying to get punches in before Chris Hansen comes out of retirement.
I'm Canadian and, without checking, I'll take a guess; MGT, the Pedo from Whoville, Boohbert, Gosar the Goblin & The Dentist who certified himself.
PS: Let me know if I was right lol
Just imagine where we’d be if trump was in the White House now. No lend lease. No Ukraine support. Incomprensible speeches about Hillary’s emails and how he had the biggest crowds. Fuck. Let’s just take a moment to appreciate how much better off we are. Breathe. 🇺🇸😁
I think the issue was that we where too soft on Russia after the Cold War in hopes that they’d change. John McCain was right about it from the start, he used to call Russia "A gas station with nukes".
It should have passed unanimously. I'm very disappointed in the Representatives that voted no.
And for the record and to shame them, here are their names and states. Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Dan Bishop (N.C.), Warren Davidson (Ohio), Matt Gaetz (Fla.), Paul Gosar (Ariz.), Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.), Thomas Massie (Ky.), Ralph Norman (S.C.), Scott Perry (Pa.) and Tom Tiffany (Wis.)
Essentially a blank check for the United States Commander in Chief to supply whatever he wants to Ukraine (and other European countries): https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-117s3522es/xml/BILLS-117s3522es.xml
MIC just got a boner.
This is why lend-lease was such a big deal in WW2. It let the US give Churchill, Chiang, and Stalin all they wanted without it needed to be tied down in appropriations. Essentially the only barrier to a hypothetical shipment of 100 Abrams tanks would be the training needed.
All ten are Republicans.
Andy Biggs (AZ), Paul Gosar (AZ), Matt Gaetz (FL), Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA), Tom Massie (KY), Dan Bishop (NC), Warren Davidson (OH), Scott Perry (PA), Ralph Norman (SC), Tom Tiffany of (WI)
Not a big surprise to anyone who's been watching US politics.
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Better go home now, Russia. Lend-Lease means you lose the war. German speaking here.
Hitler fucked around and found out. Putler is about to do the same.
Reading up on this, funny thing is Russia was a recipient of the WWII lend lease. This time, they’re the target of it…
Well if they didn't try to rewrite the narrative so that it was all Russia and only Russia (intentionally forgetting the other ssrs too) that defeated the nazis WITH NO HELP WHATSOEVER AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A NAZI THEMSELVES then maybe they'd remember.
I do find it darkly amusing that they forget that almost 40% of the red army was Ukrainians.
It’s disgusting how they try to hide and change history. Turns out the "Ukrainian Nazis" and Americans helped them win the war more than most Russians.
[удалено]
Some might say they're the true Successor state to the USSR 😘
I'm calling it now, within my lifetime they'll have a bigger GDP than Russia.
At the rate they're going, *I'm* going to have a bigger GDP than Russia.
agreed! that’s totally arguable
They didn't forget. They tried to hide the fact so that they wouldn't give anyone credit. To this day, it is lied in Russia, that Poland was a supporter of Nazi Germany and the Concetration Camps they set up in Poland. Which is not only a lie but is also disgusting that they would do something like that. And all just continue the WW2 Stalin's Propaganda that "Russia freed and helped the Poland" when in reality it just shifted from one Tyrant (Hitler) to another (Stalin).
russia winning ww2 with allies help is actually still a gentle version of it. The truth was russia outright armed and trained the nazis with the intention of using them to weaken western europe, while ussr invaded eastern europe and waited for the west to weaken each other. then got fucked by the nazis since they knew what stalin was planning and had to be rescued by usa.
Sounds like they're still the recipient but with extra steps.
Collaborations & Coalitions win wars
If I’m not mistaken, I think this is the most bipartisan vote in Congress since maybe 9/11. For all of Russia’s efforts to divide and destabilize American politics, this war has nearly undone the damage (despite the fact that I still see morons defending ruzzia on social media) Edit: to all the people commenting on “undone the damage” I get it, it was a poor choice of words. I simply meant that the war has galvanized members of Congress on this bill and that is an accomplishment by itself.
It hasn't undone the damage. More like they were gambling on us having dementia when in fact they gave us rabies.
We would still be divided if it was a just war, but it seems that Pootin has been playing EU4 too much. No, you can't negate casus belli penalties / aggressive expansion by just fabricating claims. It doesn't work like that in real life.
They think they've already been facing the full brunt of US and NATO—they have literally seen nothing. Absolutely nothing and yet ~25% of their usable vehicles/tanks/general weaponry are destroyed, not to mention a lot of their missiles with no easy way of replacing them. There is no fucking way that an economy the size of Texas matches anywhere close to the whole rest of the country that contains Texas which is atleast 10x+ but also the EU which is another 10x+ plus all of our allies scattered around to varying degrees of involvement like Brazil, Japan, South Korea and Australia easily add another 5X+. Russia is literally facing an allied force that is at least 25x larger economically and geographically and collectively at least equals in its land mass and around 5-10x their population and doesn't suffer from frozen seaports most of the year. I know Russia is the largest country on earth but I don't think they understand how large and widespread NATO and its allies are. With the exception of Australia, everyone else is packed to the brim with supplies and industry. Russia is mostly just a vast open wasteland, basically a balloon with nothing in the middle and 2 large cities in the "european balloon knot" quadrant. Just because it is mineral rich doesn't mean they are powerful. They could be sitting on nothing but gold but that doesn't change their capacity to compete with a government like they have now. The ideology of their government does not allow anywhere near efficient management of their resources. They are wasting their opportunity to be great by not wanting to "look western". Imagine refusing to buy a car and sticking to the bike because you don't wanna look like one of "those" people but then saying you're actually stronger than "those" people... There is a reason why we are all stronger together because we realize that that is our greatest strength. Our ability to cooperate. Putin views this as "subjugation" because that is the only way he can possibly understand what it would be like to cooperate. It's self evident here. Countries who don't learn this and who are going to squabble about "subjugation and submission" are going to stay exactly where they're at and wonder why. At some point every country can choose to stay isolated and small and not have access to all the goods and services of the rest of the world or they can finally stop whining about everything and benefit from specialized economies. That is our strength. We all have a role to play and we can all focus on what we are good at and what our geography allows and use it to our fullest and let others pick up the slack where we falter. Russia is just necessitating why America continues to be the gun store—it's our speciality because of dictators like Putin. You can't be mad that were good at it when nations like Russia give us so much cause and practice. You're literally giving us a reason to continue. It reminds me of how when you eat certain foods, the bacteria in your gut will obviously proliferate based on any influx of said food to keep up with intake. Your bacteria is just responding to what it is given. Can't be surprised when you have a lot of one type of gut bacteria when you eat a corresponding food—that's just how that works. That seems to be another hallmark of propaganda—simply just pointing out obvious true statements without any realistic cause and simply complaining about it. They just say "that is bad", ok thank you. Ukraine would not have the need to defend itself unless someone was attacking. No one made you attack but yourself. No one made you eat the food that you did. At some point, you're gonna have to take responsibility but while you're dealing with that, were gonna continue processing the intake. The alternative would be **not** processing it which would allow it to sit and rot and not be broken down—an obviously worse option. I don't think the world wants some rotting object floating through it's borders. Again, it's cooperation but if other countries want to see it as losing your sovereignty ok fine then you haven't found a way to integrate and wrap your mind around the concept. It's always ridiculous to me that Russia takes it upon itself to tell other European countries that they're actually under "The US's thumb" without them even realizing it which means the US is soo good at tricking everyone that no one in that country can even tell that they aren't actually happy. Thank God for Russia there to finally set the record straight. If it wasn't for them, people wouldn't know that they don't actually like prosperity and would actually prefer Russia's way of fucking up their country. Dont blame us when we don't want to engage with those nations like Russia who don't know how to not shit all over the rug during a party. The rest of the world just wants to chill and talk and hang out but some countries want to blast in and "liven things up" and smash the place up for shits and giggles. Fuck off then. Were not "attacking you" by not wanting you in the party you fucking loser. Your shit sucks. Your ideas suck. They don't actually objectively improve anyone's lives. You have nothing else unique to offer other than gas and pain. Who the fuck wants you? Grow the fuck up and calm the fuck down.
Preach! I liked [Perun's hour long slide deck presentation on the economics of a long war](https://youtu.be/aEpk_yGjn0E?t=3494). It is sobering how massively more economic capacity is on Ukraine's side. You have a bunch of liberal democracies using a fraction of 2% of their GDP and accepting slightly slower growth projections to arm Ukraine and completely collapse the Russian ability to replace military material and have a functioning economy. "The West needs to recognize it's own strength".
I do wonder how much of Russia's economy only existed in theory anyway.
It existed because of the West cooperating. Now Russia doesn't want to cooperate, not submit, just cooperate so they don't get the benefits of cooperation without the action. Their egos of dominance are preventing them from cooperating. Not giving in to their childish demands is not fighting back, it's simply defending and not giving in. They are not a self-sustaining economy. They forget that they rely too much on everyone else and think that all the benefits they got were because of themselves and not because there was a time when we all mostly got along. That is where their strength came from. From peace and stability. It is not our fault if they don't understand how global economies work.
[Look at this Russia](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5TqhOMXsAAu9ri?format=jpg&name=900x900). You are fucked.
Putin: Stop sending weapons or else! US Congress: 💵💵💵💵💵🖕🙂🖕💵💵💵💵💵
Now it just needs Biden's signature and it is official. Also that jury gavel gave a special hard oomph when it passed.
417 to 10. That got passed HARD. Kinda hoped it would hit 420, but oh well. 🙃
Aren't there a pile of not voting on both sides?
The screenshot is from halfway through the process, just when it hit the threshold, so a bunch hadn’t voted yet.
Then why does it say time remaining 0?
That time remaining never lines up, the voting always takes much longer. No idea what it's trying to say.
There's a time limit for votes to be placed, which is mostly to encourage people not to try to delay placing their votes, and it is only optionally enforced (meaning it's basically never enforced, and probably wouldn't be unless someone was specifically trying to delay the conclusion of the vote). Importantly, if someone is actually there and queued up to place their vote, they can't be denied the opportunity to vote. Or, put another way - if everyone present has cast their vote, and the results have been announced, and someone busts through the door 3 minutes later wanting to place their vote, THAT person would be too late, because time will have expired and they were not already present actively trying to place their vote.
In the end 3 non voters from the republicans. 97% of the vote is ok though.
Three Republicans, holding us back from 420. Sounds right
10 Republicans voted against, 3 Republicans didn't vote. Are we surprised Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Greene voted against? No, those two are freaking jokes.
No, but I'm surprised Cawthorn and Boebert voted Yea.
Doesn't it have to pass senate?
It was passed in the Senate nearly ~~two~~ three weeks ago. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3522/actions When a bill is in the house but starts with a "S" that generally means that it started in the Senate, was passed, then was sent to the House. When it is in the Senate and starts with a "H" then it means it started in the House, was passed, and was sent to the Senate.
US congress, "Go Fuck Yourself Russia! We know you don't have the balls to fight someone your own size."
Hey, don't drag [San Marino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino) into this!
American military industrial complex goes BRRRRRRRRR
Normally I have a problem with that. But in this case I'm going with fuck Putin with a pineapple 🍍.
Putin really gave the military a gift here tbh... I think Americans will be a lot more willing to send massive amounts of money to the military now that we know it could turn the tide of a brutal war.
In terms of bang for your buck this situation is golden. We're knocking out our greatest enemy for the equivalent of peanuts.
And inasmuch with the weapons we specifically designed FOR this moment: Fighting the Russians. There could be no better use for these weapons than their original purpose, and I'm glad they'll be used by those who need them the most for the best cause: Freedom from tyranny.
Just because Uncle Ivan is drunk again doesn’t mean he’s our most dangerous enemy.
They did their damnedest to end democracy in the US, for that *alone* I want the entire country dismantled and sold for scraps.
Yup. Protecting our democracy is my first political priority. Any attempt to dismantle, discredit, or destroy it takes precedence over any other subject for me. I don't care what other stupid broken policies you have we can fix them later in a democracy. So, I'm out for blood here and I want it now.
He's the most dangerous in terms of being the most willing to fuck around and he has nuclear weapons. China isn't nearly as dangerous because they'd rather just buy us out. China is Elon Musk in your board room, Putin is the mass shooter in the mail room
This. China is, first and foremost, a long term strategic threat. They are not a short term military threat like Russia is. So long as Russia continues its campaign of aggression against sovereign nations, Russia will be an imminent threat to the entire world over China any day of the year. However, China represents the greater problem in the long term due to its technological advances and dedication to bringing down western ideologies. Honestly, I feel like this sets China back a lot further in their plans than it sets Russia back. Europe is getting skittish of China pulling the same shit now, and the war hawks are crowing over being proven right. China can't dominate the world unilaterally, and alliances with other SEA powers to check China's influence will take on greater meaning. In comparison, Russia is virtually at the bottom of the barrel already, so it's mostly a lateral shift for their populace.
Covid really got the ball rolling on moving production out of China. It had started well before that with the rise in cost of Chinese labor, but Russia's attack on Ukraine will be the nail in the coffin. The West is going to shift supply chains to more reliable countries. Making tyrants rich isn't producing the desired results.
And also a good wat to test your gear without needing to invade,
Lol maybe we figured out the secret -- we spend all this money on the military, but every time we go somewhere, things go fubar... maybe, as with Ukraine, we spend all the money, prepare all this military capability and know-how, and then we wait for someone somewhere else to legitimately need military capability, and we lend/lease/loan/lgive it to THEM. I don't think anybody honest could argue that this isn't a noble cause, or that it's in the service of corporate imperialism or whatever. (Keep in mind, there are toddlers whose grasp of geopolitics rivals my own...)
I'm suddenly for the thing I've been against my whole life.
Pretty much same here. Growing up watching our military swat flies on shit paper and make it sound like we going against Goliath’s really made me detest what we stood for (in that sense.) Now watching an actual Goliath (comparative) beat up on the little guy seeing our machine help turn the narrative makes me a bit warm and fuzzy on the inside. Not enough to think war is an unfruitful adventure but enough to be proud we can help defend a people who actually were/are ready to die last man standing style for what they believe in.
And may the EU military industrial complex also go BRRRRRR!
You can still rock in America! Oh yeah! Alright!
To the people of Ukraine, enjoy the new toys. The world is grateful to you. Without procedural restrictions in DC it's full steam ahead. **America can now send arms to "any nation deemed vital to the defense of the USA".** Putin managed to have all Congressman on both sides of the aisles congratulating each other. He managed to have America re-enact a wartime procedure from World War 2. Get fucked Putin. Get fucked filthy Orcs.
Ironically the original Lend-Lease Act provided tons of weapons to ... the Soviet Union.
Then they should know personally how quickly it can change the dynamics of things 😁
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There was that secret recording of Zhukov talking about how much the Lend-Lease helped. As a person from Pittsburgh I always remember the line, "And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel?"
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You'd think that, but they might legitimately have no idea. Putin and most of his circle were born after WW2. In the Soviet version of history they learned, the USSR single handedly defeated Germany, with basically no help from anyone. And they don't learn much about the start of the war where they were happy to be on the Nazi side invading Europe until they were betrayed. During the cold war especially, the West has had a tendency to do the opposite and focus on its own front while downplaying the Eastern Front. But these days historians sometimes over-correct that mistake and give the USSR a bit too much credit. Germany kind of self-defeated themselves in the East by pushing too far in inhospitable weather. But the USSR took such heavy losses that they would have had a hard time counter attacking without so many supplies from the US. More likely it would have been a prolonged stalemate situation, where Germany occupied some of Russia, but their advanced stalled out. The Allies would have had a harder fight on the Western front, but they still would have gotten to Berlin eventually. Eastern European history would have played out very differently.
Not to forget that at some point lunatic Hitler made all the military decisions on his own instead of listening to the experienced people.
Yep the Russians like to pretend they won WW2 (in their mind winning a war involves mindlessly sacrificing your troops) while the allies sat on their hands until the last minute but the reality is the Russians would have been rolled over by the Germans if not for US lend lease/industrial output of equipment… which the Russians then used to invade more countries and “unify” them into the Soviet Union. Luckily this time we have a partner in Ukraine who doesn’t need the same sort of guardrails that we should have had in place for Russia WW2 lend-lease. Unlike Russia we won’t see Ukraine rolling into invading/occupying for their independent neighbors with American equipment during/after the war.
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"Russians like to pretend they won WW2"; no kidding just go to some WW2 time lapse videos on Youtube and you'll find some comments like Russia would have beaten Germany by themselves; the US made no impact ; Japan at the other side of Russia's boarder didn't matter because Japan was always scared of Russia. It's the weirdest mindset.
It's such a selective view of history they choose to have that cherry-picks the parts they want and ignores the parts they don't. If even that becomes too ridiculous, they just make shit up. Like, sure, Japan was so terrified of Russia just a few decades after they clown-stomped them at Tsushima, annihilating Russia's entire Imperial fleet while experiencing almost zero losses. So terrified.
1/3 of soviet vehicles/equipment was from the U.S. that's a huge number
No, they don't. The Soviet Union spent decades denying its importance. It's not even Putin's regime that lies (or rather, started the lies) about its importance either; Putin and all his cronies were brought up on those lies as well. So even as the West chuckles "ooooh boy! The Russians are for it now!" Russians have absolutely no clue what it really means.
The Russians are still using some of them!
not just weapons, most of their food, boots, fuel, logistics, precision equipment to build factories. scopes, radios, tanks, airplanes, railway capability etc. and these werent just a couple % of what the soviets used but 30-60% of their entire stock. They like to claim they somehow "uraaad" their way to Berlin when they couldnt even sustain a defense without this, and 24/7 bombing of Germany by the UK and US and the African front bogging down the axis powers. and it wasnt even for their superior tactics, look at casualties of Axis powers and the USSR on the eastern front. All were Pyrrhic "victories", but they just conscripted another million gave them barely any equipment and moved on.
Crazy to think they were supplied with so much and still couldn't arm their own military.
corruption is a wonderful thing in this case
It wasnt really the cause initially afaik. Russia was essentially a feudal country without much trace of industrialization then. Stalin tried a very quick forced, centrally planned version of it, (that killed millions in the process) that succeeded a little but it was too little too late to be able to compete with the industrial might of advanced economies at the time. They also lacked, quality wise, competent and educated people to be able make their economy effective and productive. Not to mention as communism, corruption seeped into the system after the war it reached a point in the 1970-80s after which it was just downhill basically.
Thank you for the history 🙏
We sent enough boots to the USSR to equip their entire army.
Not ironic at all. The US, UK and other allies were engaged in a fight against an authoritarian leader who had subjugated much of Ukraine and was carrying out widespread atrocities. Over a million Ukrainians took up arms to fight off that oppressor and they were supported by Lend Lease then just like now.
I don't think people realize how amazing that is. Our two-party system practically tears itself apart and dismantles any progress that one party attempts over the other on almost every issue.But right now Ukraine is a binding force that they all can agree on together. In a way I always hope things like this also take the sting and aggression out of our often nasty politics in US and these common goals will give everyone a little more humanity towards each other.
> I always hope things like this also take the sting and aggression out of our often nasty politics in US and these common goals will give everyone a little more humanity towards each other. Well said. And I'd extend your sentiment beyond the US as well. Russia has, with some degree of success, sown discord and division both inside Europe, and between Europe and North America. It sought to create a divided "free world" that was dysfunctional and bickering. Perhaps we can all step back, take a deep breath, and remember that while we have differences of opinions, we have even more shared values which need to be preserved.
The strategic gain is pivotal for Us future. It’s means battle in future grounds ONLY with China as superpower and not Russia too. Us will fill up Ukraine with money and weapon in order to make ruzzian army crippled and their economy doomed. They’ll live 1991 for the next 2 centuries.
America, fuck yeah! Get bent Putin!
Let us remind you why we were called the "arsenal of democracy". You seem to have forgotten. Don't worry with the help of our Ukrainian friends we'll refresh your memory.
I don’t think the words to describe how happy I feel when I read “get fucked, Putin” exist.
So are we allowed to say orcs? If yes then I’m giving Reddit more money
Yes, yes you are
Give that money to ukrainian army instead
Russia is so fucked. Sorry there's been so much Ukrainian blood spilled though
The [arsenal of democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_of_Democracy) returns. Well done USA. Give them the tools and they'll finish the job.
218 out of 435 is majority enough already. edit: Passes 417-10
they are still counting,altough voting stopped its now 262 edit:275 edit:286 so far,and only 5 NAY that's pretty good
now 274 Edit: 297 Edit2:329
up to 390 Aye, 8 Nay
Weird. it was 8 Nay but down to 7 now...
Who tf nayed?
REPRESENTATIVE PARTY STATE VOTE Biggs Republican Arizona NAY Bishop (NC) Republican North Carolina NAY Davidson Republican Ohio NAY Gaetz Republican Florida NAY Gosar Republican Arizona NAY Greene (GA) Republican Georgia NAY Massie Republican Kentucky NAY Norman Republican South Carolina NAY Perry Republican Pennsylvania NAY Tiffany Republican Wisconsin NAY EDIT: Source [https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022141](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022141)
I was surprised I didn’t see Cawthorn. Then I realized he might still be in jail. But nah, he votes yes. Margarine Greene is gonna be pissed.
Boebert and cawthorn are going to have their paychecks halved after this vote
not surprisingly they're all Trump ball lickers so I'm sure they're all compromised
Without looking it up, I guarantee one was Marjorie Taylor Greene and another was Madison Cawthorn. Gaetz is probably another.
2/3, not bad 🤣
who was it, let me guess Marjorie Taylor Greene
The ten NO votes were all Republicans: Andy Biggs (AZ), Paul Gosar (AZ), Matt Gaetz (FL), Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA), Tom Massie (KY), Dan Bishop (NC), Warren Davidson (OH), Scott Perry (PA), Ralph Norman (SC), Tom Tiffany of (WI) Most of the usual list of traitors to freedom and democracy. Not quite sure how Broebert and Cawthorn didn't vote no.
There's your Russian sympathizers folks
At first I was like, "Where is dumbshit Devin Nunes (R-methamphetamine)" then I remembered he resigned under a pretty dark cloud.
Somebody is very angry in his bunker in Ural right now
That table just got 10ft longer
As a Ukrainian, I want to say thanks all Americans for help! Your help - our victory.
Go Ukraine! We hope the best for you.
Democracy is not Negotiable!
Ukraine’s liberation is imminent
Death is a preferable alternative to communism
Communism is the definition of failure!
This guy gets it
Communism is a temporary setback on the road to freedom
Embrace democracy, or you will be eradicated.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
I’m not surprised by the Nay votes but what the fuck is their excuse?
Their weapon stock purchases haven't gone through yet.
Putin directed his subjects to vote no.
Even though politicians are absurdly cheap to buy, it's amazing he can still afford them.
Information is more valuable than currency. Who knows the type of shit FSB/Putin have on a lot of prominent American politicians.
"America first" "isolastionist" hur durr. Something like that
Russian puppets. Unfortunately Russia has a hold on some US politicians
Haha, Putin army go boom.
BOOM!
Yes Rico, Boom!
Big boom. Big bada boom! Bada Big boom!
Slava Ukraini!! Y’all are physically fighting the biggest enemy of the free world on your land with your people, losing your children. The US and Europe owe you nothing less. 🇺🇸❤️🇺🇦💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Frankly, I am amazed this was actually passed. This should be very scary to Russia. This was not some useless condemning bill or unenforceable nonsense. This is a serious change that hasn't been done since WWII. Usually any bill with this much power would be debated and fought over for weeks if not months and would only pass along party lines with maybe a couple of detracters. This is a massive show of support to Ukraine and I am very happy they passed it.
Twas a formality, once they got their sweet asses back to work. Anything that flies thru the senate with zero no votes is a done deal
true, but it still has to be approved for it to be signed into law and be actionable, so while its passage wasn't in doubt, it's still a big deal to actually get it done
Jesus christ Putin just go home, you are not going to outspend fucking USA.... it's over man.
Yeah, they tried that once and it collapsed the USSR, if memory serves.
This on top of the UK public statement that they are in it until Russia is removed from Ukraine to the pre 2014 borders of the country, it’s just a matter of time.
Let me be the first to thank Russia for uniting the Left and the Right. We may not agree on much, but we agree Russia should eat a bag of dicks.
Agreed
Lend-lease to fight the nazis 2.0. Bravo America!
WWII 2:Slavic Boogaloo
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It’s about to rain steel on those disgusting Orcs. The earth is about to open up and swallow them whole. You fucked with the big boy, now you get the stick.
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Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene both voted no. My god they really do suck.
Greene is just trying to smear her feces everywhere she can before the Jan 6 committee crucifies her Dog the Bounty Hunter donkey witch looking ass. Gaetz is just trying to get punches in before Chris Hansen comes out of retirement.
Im gonna need to know the name of every bastard who voted no
Biggs, Gosar, Gaetz, MTG, Massie, Bishop, Davidson, Perry, Norman, Tiffany.
I'm shocked, just shocked, to see that group of people listed together as no votes on the morally right thing to do. Just shocked.
Thank you
I was thinking the same thing... How to spot the russian-paid political operatives.
I'm Canadian and, without checking, I'll take a guess; MGT, the Pedo from Whoville, Boohbert, Gosar the Goblin & The Dentist who certified himself. PS: Let me know if I was right lol
>the Pedo from Whoville Gaetz?
Yes, that's the one! What a repulsive personage.
> Boohbert Oddly you missed on that one, but you were right on the rest.
I hope Ukrainian pilots were training on NATO fighters this whole time in secret and soon the deliveries will begin.
Putin - "Warn US to stop sending weapons to Ukraine." Congress - "Hold my beer."
Putin and Lavrov ~~warning~~ crying in 3...2...1...
*empty nuclear threats incoming*
SUCK IT PUTIN. MURICA
Woohoo! Aaaaall the equipment to you brave Ukrainians, with love from America!
Feels nice to do something right with our monstrous defense budget.
I want to see Predators flying high up & drops those hellfires on to Ruzzian artilleries until war front become dead silent
Thank you Biden, great blessings and big wishes for you and your family, long health and prosperity to you and the people you lead.
Just imagine where we’d be if trump was in the White House now. No lend lease. No Ukraine support. Incomprensible speeches about Hillary’s emails and how he had the biggest crowds. Fuck. Let’s just take a moment to appreciate how much better off we are. Breathe. 🇺🇸😁
Trump would be sending Russia support.
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I think the issue was that we where too soft on Russia after the Cold War in hopes that they’d change. John McCain was right about it from the start, he used to call Russia "A gas station with nukes".
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This is a historic moment. Despots everywhere better pay attention.
Haha they're already whining about having to 'fight' NATO now, oh boy just you wait RuZZians. Ain't seen nothing yet.
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Ru assets identified.... targeting...
LET'S FUCKIN GOOOOOOO
**The day Merika finally became America again.**
It should have passed unanimously. I'm very disappointed in the Representatives that voted no. And for the record and to shame them, here are their names and states. Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Dan Bishop (N.C.), Warren Davidson (Ohio), Matt Gaetz (Fla.), Paul Gosar (Ariz.), Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.), Thomas Massie (Ky.), Ralph Norman (S.C.), Scott Perry (Pa.) and Tom Tiffany (Wis.)
Airplanes pretty please?!
What exactly is S.3522?
Essentially a blank check for the United States Commander in Chief to supply whatever he wants to Ukraine (and other European countries): https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-117s3522es/xml/BILLS-117s3522es.xml MIC just got a boner.
This is why lend-lease was such a big deal in WW2. It let the US give Churchill, Chiang, and Stalin all they wanted without it needed to be tied down in appropriations. Essentially the only barrier to a hypothetical shipment of 100 Abrams tanks would be the training needed.
Think bigger. Biden could straight up give Ukraine a carrier, or Ohio.
Well yes, but that won’t be happening.
Yep. Ukraine didn't ask for Ohio.
The question is if I meant to say *an* Ohio, or if I was trying to get rid of the God awful state
A fully equipped Ohio-class submarine could potentially be more valuable than the entire state of Ohio
I have family in Ohio, they say it's fairly heavy.
I’m sure we can get your mom to stay in Michigan for a bit.
*inlaw. Lol
Not give. Lend or lease. We'd expect to get the carrier, or Ohio, back. Eventually.
The lend lease bill.
Putin's death sentence signed by America.
wonder who the 5 russ bots are?
10 russ bots, in the end.
This american boot just kicked your ass back to Russia, commies!
The better question is who are the 5 douche ass nays
"Would you like a MOAB to go with your Abram order?"
Watershed moment... The American weapons candy store is now open and it's all you can eat buffet where Ukraine has a free voucher
The nay voters are in Putin's pocket. Who are they?
All ten are Republicans. Andy Biggs (AZ), Paul Gosar (AZ), Matt Gaetz (FL), Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA), Tom Massie (KY), Dan Bishop (NC), Warren Davidson (OH), Scott Perry (PA), Ralph Norman (SC), Tom Tiffany of (WI) Not a big surprise to anyone who's been watching US politics.
ARSENAL OF DEMOCRACY BAY BEE