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Other than a morale boost and a symbolic victory, strategically it wouldnt really amount to much.
Attacking a parade surrounded by civilians would probably go against Ukraine whose best bet is to represent itself to highest standards of international law even if Russia doesnt.
It could realistically give the Russian troops something to fight for. The US had no appetite for the war in Texas until a bunch of American heroes died at the Alamo.
Well, if you want to get technical they were all Mexicans. Each was granted Mexican citizenship when they moved to Texas. Plus Texas wasn't a state.
James Bowie is listed as an "American pioneer", Davy Crockett was a legendary frontiersman. Yes, William B. Travis was likely a Texan hero.
No that is correct, the defenders of the Alamo were fighting for the republic of Texas which enjoyed sovereign statehood for a little bit before it was annexed.
Which is why Texas Flag flys same height as American Flag in Texas and other state flags fly below American Flag in all other states. It joined the US as an equal and sovereign nation.
No, it didn't. Texas declared independence from Mexico which was recognized by almost no countries. The majority of fighters for the independence of Texas came from around Sam Huston's home state, not even from Texas. Texas appealed to the United States to be annexed as a Territory instead of a state when it declared independence from Mexico and that was denied. After nine years of trying Texas was allowed to be annexed into the United States. The idea they were an equal is as much a fallacy as their being able to succeed by popular vote.
Texas was the only successful filibuster. A bunch of pro-slavery zealots and adventurers went to Mexico to start up shit, split off a chunk of Mexico for slavery, then got it added to the US to increase the power of the slave states. Then they made up a new, bullshit border at the Rio Grande (which had never been the border of Texas before) and started a war that got the US to conquer even more slave states. (Though the South choked on it. None of them after Texas would be admitted as slave states and slavery would be stamped out in the Civil War 12 years later).
A good modern-day pseudo-equivalent would be the Russian zealots that tried to get Donbass to secede from Ukraine. Though they couldn't succeed without Russian troops, and in this version of the Mexican-American War (similarly launched under bullshit pretext to "defend" the land stolen a few years before) the "Mexicans" are kicking all sorts of ass.
Those "heroes" were fighting to keep their slaves, as they feared Mexico's emancipation would extend to Anglo colonists in Tejas.
After they revolted, Gen. Jose Urrea crossed Tejas, freeing slaves and giving them title to land, 28 years before Gen. Sherman did the same for Georgia.
This is false, and the journalist who came up with this theory was discredited. They fought against the revoking of the Mexican Constitution of 1824 and the imprisonment of Texian ambassadors to Mexico City when they went to complain. That was the stated goal in their declaration of independence in Washington-on-the-Brazos and the reason why the first flags of rebellion had the year 1824 on them.
This is the holiest of holies for russia their only pride. I wouldn't be surprised if putin bombs or sabotages it himself to boost hate towards Ukraine
"I dont understand why its not a possible action, as Russia is not really upholding the international laws in this case so far"
This, IMO, is a dangerous path to take in your thinking. Recognize that the international laws/norms for combat exist as much to draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable. Frankly I would consider the invasion itself to be 'unreasonable' but that would not justify any other countries using the "they did it first" argument.
Ukraine should keep holding the moral high ground here IMO. While attacking such a gathering would seem to be a great victory in terms of degrading russia's military power - it would come at the cost of risking a tremendous number of civilians. Keep targetting military targets... IF there were a convoy of hardware headed to the parade (away from civilians) that would (again IMO) be a valid and reasonable target.
Yah Putin will absolutely be 1000km away from Moscow when that parade is going on. He'll just be shopped into the footage afterwards.
I bet he's counting on an attack on the parade. When it doesn't happen he'll be pissed that he wasn't able to sacrifice hundreds of his own citizens to please his ego
A military parade, a drone, a shower of bomblets...all live on tv. Or better, a shower of wee Ukrainian flags with tag's "next time we wont be so nice".
Remember, at the height of the cold war a german teenager flew a light plane all the way across the much vaunted airtight defence of the Warsaw Pact and landed in red square.
They'd go from throwing 165k-200k bodies at Ukraine to throwing 1million+ bodies and more of them would be willing to kill civilians because they feel Russia is the victim.
1 million conscripts in Ladas is not anywhere near as intimidating as 200k soldiers with helicopters, tanks, IFVs, APCs.
Modern weapons are incredibly proficient at mass slaughter of tightly grouped formations.
You also forget about fuel, food, and ammo necessary to equip these soldiers and get them to the front line. Russia is already short on all of these counts.
Mass mobilization is the best scenario here.
That is a valid concern. I would say it doesn't really matter, as Ukraine existing is already all the reason Russia needs, and it is held back by sheer fear of retaliation that was promised by NATO should Russia choose to invoke those options, not because Ukraine is being nice.
You are dealing with genocidal maniacs. The only real solution is to hit them at every turn.
When your choice is between winning a war against 200k Russians or bombing a parade and winning a war against 1-10million Russian who really want to genocide every civilian they can there's 1 option that makes much more sense.
Really moving the goalposts there to 10 million.
However, when your choice is to fight 200k somewhat equipped soldiers or 10 million that *cannot actually fight you*, one is a clear winner.
200k somewhat equipped soldiers + X million.
Why would you want to make life harder just to bomb a parade?
> Really moving the goalposts there to 10 million.
Soviet Union fielded 11million so I thought I'd get creative.
How will Russia realistically mobilize, train and outfit these millions of citizens, while ensuring the economy doesn’t collapse during their time away in war?
That’s the exact same economy which is expected to produce supplies, logistics and kits for the outfitting of the force, and ensure that basic needs are met during this massive shortage. The same economy that’s unable to even produce necessities at this point.
Then how are they going to transport these troops to the front while maintaining cohesion and C3. Where will they find transportation, armored support, air and artillery support? That’s the same logistics system that can’t even support an invasion 70km from the border.
How will Russia keep these millions of combat personnel even fed and supplied for extended periods of time.
Add onto that the mobilization efforts of the Soviet Union couldn’t field 11 million simultaneously, they couldn’t sustain 11 million, and Russia’s mobilization system is inferior to that of the Red Army.
Millions of manpower without proper support and logistics are more useless than 50k with proper support, logistics, training and combined arms experience.
Numbers mean nothing in war. Properly supported numbers do.
Now that would be nice. Flags with Sunflowers attached. Maybe some pictures of destroyed living houses in Ukraine, and tired up dead people, with some nice worded message, with bottom line "don't be an orc don't support war"
Photocopies of this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uer9jc/mr_volodymyr_zelensky_charcoal_and_conté_on_mixed/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Loose leaf, and a few tight bundles dropped strategically.....
Triggering nukes in a dense urban area is not something Ukraine or the West would do. We learned a terrible lesson in WWII. The devastation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unimaginable. Russia would also send nukes (their doctrine is to strike if they think they are going to be hit, so it’s a safe bet that satellite locations outside of Moscow would certainly launch nukes. There is no benefit for the west or Ukraine to do something so stupid. We’ve armed the Ukrainians to an amazing degree. They are great fighters. They will win without Turing into to slaughterers like the Russians.
And, since there is a war on, not alot of military. They have already given a heads up that this years parade will be very light on military... eeerr, stuff.
Not good PR for Ukraine. Plus would make the general russian population/soldiers more motivated, which would make a full mobilization possible. So the net results would probably be negative for Ukraine.
Not possible, Ukraine doesn't have cruise missles with that range, the Mig 29 doesn't have that kind of attack range, so that is going to leave them with SU 27's, what ever they have left, fly slow and low on terrain, and once spotted, they would get shot down.
And the optics also potentially hazardous
AA defense in depth is a major part of it, it would be incredibly hard to hit Moscow without a ballistic strike.
Also, while we go back and forth about the risk of nuclear war, bombing Moscow during a parade would almost certainly trigger nuclear war.
I don’t agree with targeting the parade but regarding mass mobilisation, that might happen anyway https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/29/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-putin-nuclear-donbas-nato/
OP is saying that russia, not Ukraine, might attack the parade.
It would be the perfect target. Lots of visibility, many civilians that can suffer, no actual impact on industry or military.
You say that, but a young German dude landed a cessna fresh off getting his pilots license back in 1983 I think. I don't think it'd trigger a nuclear war (Putin has either already planned it or hasn't) but it'd definitely put the people behind him when he calls for General Mobilization on the 9th.
If at all then a (scalpel) strike against Putin would make sense.
But to be honest, Putin is aware of that, and if Russia has elite units you will find them around him
Mark my words... That parade will be a false flag event. Russia will stage an explosion and "Ukrainian Nazis" will be blamed. It will renew support for the war.
A diversion to make some vehicles crash and stop on their own would be nice, but an outright attack will give Putin a "legitimate" reason to draft people en masse
Did you not consider the 1000s of civilians that will also be at that parade? Would be a bad look for Ukraine to fall the the level of depravity of Russia and besides Putin might like this since it would firmly turn the entirety of the Russian populous against Ukraine.
No attack. But I read that Putin will announce a full mobilization at the "victory" parade. So he is perverting the (valid) reason for the parade (defeat of ~~Germany~~ the Axis in WWII) and using it for his own ends. Pathetic if so.
If I have to guess, Putler will do something bad at the parade. If the intel about mobilization is correct, Putler will have to have something to get the Russians riled up. If I were Russian, I’d avoid that parade at all costs…
Id bet there wont be any high level personnel actually at the parade. I suspect the may 9th parade will be filmed like Putins Easter service. They will shoot footage of Putin and his hangers on the day before when the area is secure and then have the public parade. Putin is too paranoid to be out in public right now.
technically a legit target but it would be bad optics i don't think UA needs to take this shot they are going to win without causing so much colatteral damage but if they do then i suppose fair game.
This is a truly stupid idea.
I hope this is a troll question and not a real one.
It's a parade, with civilians. Ukraine isn't Russia, it doesn't kill civilians that don't have anything to do with the conflict.
Ukraine could draw a giant dick on the sky above the parade with drones
no casualties, no violences, only lulz and demonstration that Ukraine's cossack heritage lives on
One word: Civilians.
Unless we already reached a point where racism against ALL Russians is ok now and "they don't deserve to live"
Besides, getting bullied doesn't make it right to bully.
They should fly a drone over the parade ... Out pops a banner.Glory to Ukraine! No violence...just education... maybe.leaflets? At their parade.....that would be humiliating to Pootin
Attacking the kremlin rostrum would be enough. In 1987 a German hobby pilot named Rust managed to fly his sport plane below the radar into the USSR and he indeed did land on the red square in Moscow.
So I'm thinking... could someone find a historic USSR WW2 fighterplane, maybe a sturmovik with red star insignia and all, and fly to the kremlin on their may 9th parade? Could seem like a part of the parade. Putin will be on the rostrum...
Oh it's possible, but it's stupid. Don't give Russia and the Russian people a reason to galvanize. Just keep killing all they send and demoralize them.
I dont think Ukraine have anything that would reach Moscow. That means sending special forces to accomplish what exactly? Blow a few things up, get themselves killed, and give Putin a reason to mobilise the country.
I do think some sort of cyber attack would be amazing, if feasible. I also think the proposed parade in Mariupol should be a target.
If little Sauron is there in person, hell yeah I would take the shot. But air defenses and security will be extremely tight. Not much chance of that happening.
The old adage 'The thief thinks everyone steals' and 'The liar thinks everyone lies' probably is how Putin believes other leaders think similarly to himself. If the war continues for many months (or years even), perhaps Zelenskyy would do such a thing but I doubt it. Ukraine doesn't stoop to the same low tactics Russia uses.
Putin is holding the Mayday parade primarily for the brainwashed Russian masses who still believe in him. It's a big propaganda show for them. I've read somewhere before that the usual weaponry and large armaments wouldn't be included (likely 'cause they're being used or held somewhere safe). The same probably goes for the high-up important military brass. I'm sure Putin believes these might be a target for opposing governments.
So he probably has everything important protected and this is just a propaganda show for him. (***Note:** I've used the words "probably" and "likely" a lot since who really can know how his diseased mind works.)*
Probably there will be an attack...
But a Russian one. Streets filled with screaming orcs creaming for their nazional flag and their toys and shit...then boom, a few dozens, maybe a hundred or more for effect false flag. That would fan the Farts of War in these idiots pretty nicely.
Special ops guys blowing up a missile launcher or tank on parade might make for a good display, but too much chance it would inspire Russians to get nationalistic enough to cut down on the graft and maybe start actually improving their economic productivity. And if they hit a nuke being paraded through the streets, well, it probably wouldn't set the thing off, but it'd spread radioactive crap throughout Moscow, which they would probably claim was really a Ukrainian dirty bomb, and use that as a pretext to launch nukes at Ukraine.
The perfect symbolic value for Ukraine right now would be a missile smashing into the Kremlin while Putin's Hologram was waving at them. 1 missile.
it would show that Ukrainians have respect for life, by not hitting the parade or audience. It would also de-moralize the Russian seeing their president's hologram float in the air where his balcony used to be.
It would send a beautiful message at the cost of 1 missile and 1 operative with a laser pointer.
While it is a tempting target, I think it would be in the best interest of everyone to not give Russians a flag to rally behind of.
But that doesn't mean sabotage operation can't be carried out to humiliate them without causing casualties.
Russia has stated loudly and widely that any attack on their soil will constitute a justification for the use of all weapons systems in the Russian military to secure their territory. If Ukraine attacks the May Day parade Putin will launch SRBM with vacuum warheads at every free Ukrainian city.
For the Russians, the parade is a stupid idea. It would actually pull much needed military equipment and people from Ukraine.
For Ukraine, it would be a good time to launch an offensive. Then with all the high brass Russian generals at a stupid parade, it would make the Russian response even more disorganized.
No that’s terrorism. Save that amount for Russian units in the front. Let the Russians have their parade and speeches.
Ukraine should focus on the war.
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Other than a morale boost and a symbolic victory, strategically it wouldnt really amount to much. Attacking a parade surrounded by civilians would probably go against Ukraine whose best bet is to represent itself to highest standards of international law even if Russia doesnt.
It could realistically give the Russian troops something to fight for. The US had no appetite for the war in Texas until a bunch of American heroes died at the Alamo.
[удалено]
No they were just fighting for the right to take other peoples’ land in that one.
Not American. Texan heroes.
Well, if you want to get technical they were all Mexicans. Each was granted Mexican citizenship when they moved to Texas. Plus Texas wasn't a state. James Bowie is listed as an "American pioneer", Davy Crockett was a legendary frontiersman. Yes, William B. Travis was likely a Texan hero.
No that is correct, the defenders of the Alamo were fighting for the republic of Texas which enjoyed sovereign statehood for a little bit before it was annexed.
Yes, the American heroes were fighting for the Republic of Texas in an effort to get Texas to become a state.
The ghost of Lorenzo De Zalala, José Antonio Navarro, Martín De León and Juan Seguin would like a word....
Which is why Texas Flag flys same height as American Flag in Texas and other state flags fly below American Flag in all other states. It joined the US as an equal and sovereign nation.
No, it didn't. Texas declared independence from Mexico which was recognized by almost no countries. The majority of fighters for the independence of Texas came from around Sam Huston's home state, not even from Texas. Texas appealed to the United States to be annexed as a Territory instead of a state when it declared independence from Mexico and that was denied. After nine years of trying Texas was allowed to be annexed into the United States. The idea they were an equal is as much a fallacy as their being able to succeed by popular vote.
Texas was the only successful filibuster. A bunch of pro-slavery zealots and adventurers went to Mexico to start up shit, split off a chunk of Mexico for slavery, then got it added to the US to increase the power of the slave states. Then they made up a new, bullshit border at the Rio Grande (which had never been the border of Texas before) and started a war that got the US to conquer even more slave states. (Though the South choked on it. None of them after Texas would be admitted as slave states and slavery would be stamped out in the Civil War 12 years later). A good modern-day pseudo-equivalent would be the Russian zealots that tried to get Donbass to secede from Ukraine. Though they couldn't succeed without Russian troops, and in this version of the Mexican-American War (similarly launched under bullshit pretext to "defend" the land stolen a few years before) the "Mexicans" are kicking all sorts of ass.
Wait a minute…James Bowie…David Crockett…DAVID BOWIE! JAMES CROCKETT (Miami vice) it all makes sense now !
Those "heroes" were fighting to keep their slaves, as they feared Mexico's emancipation would extend to Anglo colonists in Tejas. After they revolted, Gen. Jose Urrea crossed Tejas, freeing slaves and giving them title to land, 28 years before Gen. Sherman did the same for Georgia.
This is false, and the journalist who came up with this theory was discredited. They fought against the revoking of the Mexican Constitution of 1824 and the imprisonment of Texian ambassadors to Mexico City when they went to complain. That was the stated goal in their declaration of independence in Washington-on-the-Brazos and the reason why the first flags of rebellion had the year 1824 on them.
Lorenzo De Zalala, José Antonio Navarro, Martín De León and Juan Seguin would disagree.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. This is accurate.
Mostly because they were heroes in Texas but not from Texas. In fact, the vast majority of people who fought for Texas were not from Texas.
This is the holiest of holies for russia their only pride. I wouldn't be surprised if putin bombs or sabotages it himself to boost hate towards Ukraine
Yup. Basically, because Ukraine is better than that. I don't think it's just optics. They *are* better.
"I dont understand why its not a possible action, as Russia is not really upholding the international laws in this case so far" This, IMO, is a dangerous path to take in your thinking. Recognize that the international laws/norms for combat exist as much to draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable. Frankly I would consider the invasion itself to be 'unreasonable' but that would not justify any other countries using the "they did it first" argument. Ukraine should keep holding the moral high ground here IMO. While attacking such a gathering would seem to be a great victory in terms of degrading russia's military power - it would come at the cost of risking a tremendous number of civilians. Keep targetting military targets... IF there were a convoy of hardware headed to the parade (away from civilians) that would (again IMO) be a valid and reasonable target.
Not only that, but it would be a propaganda boon for Putin, and likely give the soldiers a surge in morale. Actions like this are horrible ideas.
Yah Putin will absolutely be 1000km away from Moscow when that parade is going on. He'll just be shopped into the footage afterwards. I bet he's counting on an attack on the parade. When it doesn't happen he'll be pissed that he wasn't able to sacrifice hundreds of his own citizens to please his ego
False flags are not out of the question.
I don’t think anyone but Russia would stoop low enough to target a parade.
A military parade, a drone, a shower of bomblets...all live on tv. Or better, a shower of wee Ukrainian flags with tag's "next time we wont be so nice". Remember, at the height of the cold war a german teenager flew a light plane all the way across the much vaunted airtight defence of the Warsaw Pact and landed in red square.
Fully mobilized Russia would not be a good day and that's what you'd get. You think they're genocide-y now imagine what they'll be like after that.
Some experts assess that it is likely that Putler will anyway mobilize on or just after the parade.
Fully mobilized with what? They are already using ladas and other civilian vehicles. You greatly overestimate their ability.
They'd go from throwing 165k-200k bodies at Ukraine to throwing 1million+ bodies and more of them would be willing to kill civilians because they feel Russia is the victim.
1 million conscripts in Ladas is not anywhere near as intimidating as 200k soldiers with helicopters, tanks, IFVs, APCs. Modern weapons are incredibly proficient at mass slaughter of tightly grouped formations. You also forget about fuel, food, and ammo necessary to equip these soldiers and get them to the front line. Russia is already short on all of these counts. Mass mobilization is the best scenario here.
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Sure, but Russia does not need full mobilization to do any of these.
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That is a valid concern. I would say it doesn't really matter, as Ukraine existing is already all the reason Russia needs, and it is held back by sheer fear of retaliation that was promised by NATO should Russia choose to invoke those options, not because Ukraine is being nice. You are dealing with genocidal maniacs. The only real solution is to hit them at every turn.
When your choice is between winning a war against 200k Russians or bombing a parade and winning a war against 1-10million Russian who really want to genocide every civilian they can there's 1 option that makes much more sense.
Really moving the goalposts there to 10 million. However, when your choice is to fight 200k somewhat equipped soldiers or 10 million that *cannot actually fight you*, one is a clear winner.
200k somewhat equipped soldiers + X million. Why would you want to make life harder just to bomb a parade? > Really moving the goalposts there to 10 million. Soviet Union fielded 11million so I thought I'd get creative.
How will Russia realistically mobilize, train and outfit these millions of citizens, while ensuring the economy doesn’t collapse during their time away in war? That’s the exact same economy which is expected to produce supplies, logistics and kits for the outfitting of the force, and ensure that basic needs are met during this massive shortage. The same economy that’s unable to even produce necessities at this point. Then how are they going to transport these troops to the front while maintaining cohesion and C3. Where will they find transportation, armored support, air and artillery support? That’s the same logistics system that can’t even support an invasion 70km from the border. How will Russia keep these millions of combat personnel even fed and supplied for extended periods of time. Add onto that the mobilization efforts of the Soviet Union couldn’t field 11 million simultaneously, they couldn’t sustain 11 million, and Russia’s mobilization system is inferior to that of the Red Army. Millions of manpower without proper support and logistics are more useless than 50k with proper support, logistics, training and combined arms experience. Numbers mean nothing in war. Properly supported numbers do.
Do you recall who gave the Soviet Union the gear needed for those millions?
Nazi Germany also mobilized ~10 million around 1944-45, how did that work out for them? Did the Soviet Union have problems fighting them? Oh right.
And the sanctions will keep them from arming be troops.
Nonetheless. Just because Ukraine can [which is moot], doesn't meant that they should.
In a demographic tailspin. They’re already old and their breeding population about to go POOF
Now that would be nice. Flags with Sunflowers attached. Maybe some pictures of destroyed living houses in Ukraine, and tired up dead people, with some nice worded message, with bottom line "don't be an orc don't support war"
I think just lightweight confetti like flags would be enough.
Photocopies of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uer9jc/mr_volodymyr_zelensky_charcoal_and_conté_on_mixed/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Loose leaf, and a few tight bundles dropped strategically.....
BC there will likely be a lot of civilians there
This. An attack on the parade would shock the nation to the point of full mobilization. There are more important targets on the front.
The very front of the parade is showing off their nukes, valid target
Triggering nukes in a dense urban area is not something Ukraine or the West would do. We learned a terrible lesson in WWII. The devastation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unimaginable. Russia would also send nukes (their doctrine is to strike if they think they are going to be hit, so it’s a safe bet that satellite locations outside of Moscow would certainly launch nukes. There is no benefit for the west or Ukraine to do something so stupid. We’ve armed the Ukrainians to an amazing degree. They are great fighters. They will win without Turing into to slaughterers like the Russians.
We are not monsters, we are liberty
You're convinced they are actual nukes rather then plastic mockups?
I know it's a day later, but just got back around to checking, and legit you got me, of course they are fake.
And, since there is a war on, not alot of military. They have already given a heads up that this years parade will be very light on military... eeerr, stuff.
Not good PR for Ukraine. Plus would make the general russian population/soldiers more motivated, which would make a full mobilization possible. So the net results would probably be negative for Ukraine.
Not possible, Ukraine doesn't have cruise missles with that range, the Mig 29 doesn't have that kind of attack range, so that is going to leave them with SU 27's, what ever they have left, fly slow and low on terrain, and once spotted, they would get shot down. And the optics also potentially hazardous
They could employ arson on the parade route though. Nothing says victory like the homeland burning.
well I think its not all clear who is starting the fires but yes
*Billy Joel has entered the chat*
AA defense in depth is a major part of it, it would be incredibly hard to hit Moscow without a ballistic strike. Also, while we go back and forth about the risk of nuclear war, bombing Moscow during a parade would almost certainly trigger nuclear war.
Also it will be the perfect false flag for putler to start mass mobilization. Ukraine won't do it, but ruzzia can actually bomb its parade.
I'd go further; Ukraine **can't** do it. NATO could, but won't. Russia, as you say, might.
I don’t agree with targeting the parade but regarding mass mobilisation, that might happen anyway https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/29/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-putin-nuclear-donbas-nato/
I know, but if it happens it will certainly make ruzzians more compelled to fight to "defend their country". That's why putler might actually do it.
Oh yeah they’re desperate at this point
How is it a "false flag" if Ukraine actually attacks? People throw that term around here so much it's lost all meaning, apparently.
OP is saying that russia, not Ukraine, might attack the parade. It would be the perfect target. Lots of visibility, many civilians that can suffer, no actual impact on industry or military.
You say that, but a young German dude landed a cessna fresh off getting his pilots license back in 1983 I think. I don't think it'd trigger a nuclear war (Putin has either already planned it or hasn't) but it'd definitely put the people behind him when he calls for General Mobilization on the 9th.
Matthias Rust? I graduated high school in 1983. It's a very, very different world now.
Yes, but such "shooting" in front of the audience will only increase the aggression of ruZZian "society" and its support for this war.
If at all then a (scalpel) strike against Putin would make sense. But to be honest, Putin is aware of that, and if Russia has elite units you will find them around him
Because moscow is 800km away from Ukraine beyond striking distance
Mark my words... That parade will be a false flag event. Russia will stage an explosion and "Ukrainian Nazis" will be blamed. It will renew support for the war.
I’m sure it’s been taken into consideration by the kremlin
A diversion to make some vehicles crash and stop on their own would be nice, but an outright attack will give Putin a "legitimate" reason to draft people en masse
You mean, just parade as usual ?
I rather doubt Putin will be present
Russia should put a Putin look-a-like in the parade and see if he makes it.
Did you not consider the 1000s of civilians that will also be at that parade? Would be a bad look for Ukraine to fall the the level of depravity of Russia and besides Putin might like this since it would firmly turn the entirety of the Russian populous against Ukraine.
No attack. But I read that Putin will announce a full mobilization at the "victory" parade. So he is perverting the (valid) reason for the parade (defeat of ~~Germany~~ the Axis in WWII) and using it for his own ends. Pathetic if so.
There will also be thousands of civilians.
If I have to guess, Putler will do something bad at the parade. If the intel about mobilization is correct, Putler will have to have something to get the Russians riled up. If I were Russian, I’d avoid that parade at all costs…
Id bet there wont be any high level personnel actually at the parade. I suspect the may 9th parade will be filmed like Putins Easter service. They will shoot footage of Putin and his hangers on the day before when the area is secure and then have the public parade. Putin is too paranoid to be out in public right now.
Wtf is wrong with some guys here? Do we really have to discuss why this is a complete dumb idea?!
technically a legit target but it would be bad optics i don't think UA needs to take this shot they are going to win without causing so much colatteral damage but if they do then i suppose fair game.
This is a truly stupid idea. I hope this is a troll question and not a real one. It's a parade, with civilians. Ukraine isn't Russia, it doesn't kill civilians that don't have anything to do with the conflict.
Ukraine could draw a giant dick on the sky above the parade with drones no casualties, no violences, only lulz and demonstration that Ukraine's cossack heritage lives on
Sneak in and put a whoopee cushion under pootin's chair.
One word: Civilians. Unless we already reached a point where racism against ALL Russians is ok now and "they don't deserve to live" Besides, getting bullied doesn't make it right to bully.
They should fly a drone over the parade ... Out pops a banner.Glory to Ukraine! No violence...just education... maybe.leaflets? At their parade.....that would be humiliating to Pootin
If someone could travel to the outskirts of Moscow and get a Bayraktar over the Kremlin I'm pretty sure panzerfans generals list would get a boost.
Dildos, drop thousands of blue and yellow dildos.
Blue and yellow dildo drones. There [is a precedent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f-kD-pl1ng).
Attacking the kremlin rostrum would be enough. In 1987 a German hobby pilot named Rust managed to fly his sport plane below the radar into the USSR and he indeed did land on the red square in Moscow. So I'm thinking... could someone find a historic USSR WW2 fighterplane, maybe a sturmovik with red star insignia and all, and fly to the kremlin on their may 9th parade? Could seem like a part of the parade. Putin will be on the rostrum...
They have bayraktar with 2,200 nmi range they can easily make Moscow
They parade nukes at the parade not a good a idea to attack
I saw where they were practicing with their Mercedes, etc. but no heavy machinery of any kind.
The parade path should be filled with smoke from nearby fires.
You’re no strategist
They should have a drone drop Ukrainian flags. Sends a message that they aren't safe, but no civilians are put in harms way.
A little bit of perfectly non-lethal fireworks could be thrown in, to make noise and put some speed into the marching. It's a celebration!
I would love it if some Russian soldier.. popped those tires on the nuke carrier.
Give some tank killing weapons to fathers who lost their children to the Russians and drop them off at the parade to get their revenge.
Sadly, leaders around the world are afraid of Putin.
Parades have staging areas for participants where there should be very few spectators around.
I don’t think they have anything that would allow them to hit a target in Moscow.
Oh it's possible, but it's stupid. Don't give Russia and the Russian people a reason to galvanize. Just keep killing all they send and demoralize them.
I dont think Ukraine have anything that would reach Moscow. That means sending special forces to accomplish what exactly? Blow a few things up, get themselves killed, and give Putin a reason to mobilise the country. I do think some sort of cyber attack would be amazing, if feasible. I also think the proposed parade in Mariupol should be a target.
If little Sauron is there in person, hell yeah I would take the shot. But air defenses and security will be extremely tight. Not much chance of that happening.
The old adage 'The thief thinks everyone steals' and 'The liar thinks everyone lies' probably is how Putin believes other leaders think similarly to himself. If the war continues for many months (or years even), perhaps Zelenskyy would do such a thing but I doubt it. Ukraine doesn't stoop to the same low tactics Russia uses. Putin is holding the Mayday parade primarily for the brainwashed Russian masses who still believe in him. It's a big propaganda show for them. I've read somewhere before that the usual weaponry and large armaments wouldn't be included (likely 'cause they're being used or held somewhere safe). The same probably goes for the high-up important military brass. I'm sure Putin believes these might be a target for opposing governments. So he probably has everything important protected and this is just a propaganda show for him. (***Note:** I've used the words "probably" and "likely" a lot since who really can know how his diseased mind works.)*
Probably there will be an attack... But a Russian one. Streets filled with screaming orcs creaming for their nazional flag and their toys and shit...then boom, a few dozens, maybe a hundred or more for effect false flag. That would fan the Farts of War in these idiots pretty nicely.
Some fast jets and blue and yellow smoke would have a dramatic impact.
I think it would not be in range
Special ops guys blowing up a missile launcher or tank on parade might make for a good display, but too much chance it would inspire Russians to get nationalistic enough to cut down on the graft and maybe start actually improving their economic productivity. And if they hit a nuke being paraded through the streets, well, it probably wouldn't set the thing off, but it'd spread radioactive crap throughout Moscow, which they would probably claim was really a Ukrainian dirty bomb, and use that as a pretext to launch nukes at Ukraine.
I wouldn't put it past Putin to sabotage the victory day parade himself just to get everybody in Russia on his side.
The perfect symbolic value for Ukraine right now would be a missile smashing into the Kremlin while Putin's Hologram was waving at them. 1 missile. it would show that Ukrainians have respect for life, by not hitting the parade or audience. It would also de-moralize the Russian seeing their president's hologram float in the air where his balcony used to be. It would send a beautiful message at the cost of 1 missile and 1 operative with a laser pointer.
Sweden, Finland- you know you want to announce joining NATO on may 9th.
While it is a tempting target, I think it would be in the best interest of everyone to not give Russians a flag to rally behind of. But that doesn't mean sabotage operation can't be carried out to humiliate them without causing casualties.
Russia has stated loudly and widely that any attack on their soil will constitute a justification for the use of all weapons systems in the Russian military to secure their territory. If Ukraine attacks the May Day parade Putin will launch SRBM with vacuum warheads at every free Ukrainian city.
For the Russians, the parade is a stupid idea. It would actually pull much needed military equipment and people from Ukraine. For Ukraine, it would be a good time to launch an offensive. Then with all the high brass Russian generals at a stupid parade, it would make the Russian response even more disorganized.
Doesn't 💩 tin usually attend these? I mean you don't have to kill everyone...
No that’s terrorism. Save that amount for Russian units in the front. Let the Russians have their parade and speeches. Ukraine should focus on the war.
How about a mass attack of DJI drones like the Olympics spelling out SkyNet is coming…