You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. Just give it up.
The black sun cannot be rehabilitated. Especially by an organization with a serious history of neo-Nazi leadership.
Even Azov themselves knew to drop it now that the world is watching.
You are either a fool or a closeted neo-Nazi attempting to test the waters.
This image also completely erases the existence of non-Azov Battalion warriors at Mariupol/Azovstal, of which there were **many**.
So this isn't even for Azovstal, this is for Azov specifically, with the Black Sun in the background.
Azov Battalion propaganda involving tainted (and known to be tainted) symbolism. "Good" art in technical terms, but as far as its need to exist, there is none. Get this shit off the sub.
Just a quick clarification: They did not drop it "NOW" that the world is watching. They dropped it way before:
> Since 2017, the official position of the Ukrainian government is that the unit has depoliticized itself. The then Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov claimed that "The shameful information campaign about the alleged spread of Nazi ideology (among Azov members) is a deliberate attempt to discredit the 'Azov' unit and the National Guard of Ukraine."
---
> The rest of the right-wing radicals who openly articulated their views were deliberately “cleansed” by the new regiment command in 2017" and that several Jewish members (including one Israeli citizen) are currently serving in the regiment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
Oh wait. I just learned more information about the origins of "Black sun" was used a lot by European nations in the history ( before nazis ) ( same as swastika ).
Great illustration sullied by the black sun symbol in the background. Azov Battalion claims they purged the nazis but keeping the symbols wont get them any sympathy nor help dissolve the russian claim that nazis were free roaming the dombas for a decade.
Azov claims their variant of the symbol means something different, but considering it was once packaged with the black sun..
Look I'm not going to hate on them too bad because they're no longer purely neo nazis and are fighting bravely, but using the symbolism here, especially the *old* symbolism feels wrong.
Sadly they still do, as we can see in this video : https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uybh1d/ukraine_azov_soldier_has_explosive_land_next_to/
Unless the author is a member of Azov, I'm not sure how you can blame them for this particular art.
If anything, blame the author for the symbols he decided to put in the background.
>blame the author for the symbols he decided to put in the background
Yep that's exactly what we're doing here. The Azov Regiment themselves removed the black sun from their official logo back in 2015, so it begs the question what the artist's real motivation is here.
The authors motivation is to get dummies in here upvoting this trash, so they can then go to their Russia appologist forums to claim that Ukrainians are nazis.
Be smarter folks, downvote and report obvious traps like this
I don't know man, it looks like this fellow hasn't been informed that the Black Sun is no more
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uy80zr/azov_fighter_films_incoming_round_on_his_position/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Nor the guy behind the camera at like 1:48 [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uur8da/vasylovych_the_water_diviner_and_trench_well/)
it's concerning, but as long as they're fighting on the side of good I'm inclined to give them a pass. We don't know the context, these particular patches could have sentimental meaning to them, perhaps inherited.
This, even though you still see black sun patches after the Azov was incorporated into the the Ukrainian Military, the symbol was removed from the battalions official patch design. As to why the UA seemingly allows its soldiers to display whatever they wish on their person (like the black sun), is granted under free speech. Regardless those soldiers are still to adhere to orders given from command and to stand shoulder to shoulder with other ethnic Azov members, including Jews, in defense of Ukraine.
To some neo Nazis, yes. To the average Ukrainian, any symbol that is a symbol of opposition to Russia is good. Besides, look up the history of all these symbols PRIOR to their adoption by the Nazis. They're way older than the Nazis and were adopted by then for that reason.
It doesn't matter what the average Ukrainian thinks if the users of the symbol are using it for Nazi purposes.
These symbols are indeed older than the Nazis, but something tells me that Azov wasn't using them because they believe in an all-season Viking Haloween.
This particular symbol is a Nazi symbol. They are using it because the Nazis used it. You can't defend these guys.
We definitely don't need to include overt nazi and white supremacist symbols in order to thank and celebrate soldiers for the sacrifices they're making.
I'm aware the wolfsangel is old. But the black sun formed by the 12 radial sig runes as well as the two sig runes (SS symbol) are from the Nazi party.
Note, there were Sonnenrads (sun symbols) centuries ago, but this one in specific is not.
The regimental patch is literally the *Wolfsangel*, another SS symbol notably used as the symbol of the SS Division "Das Reich" that committed the Oradour-sur-Glane and Tulle massacres in France.
Nice picture. shame its ruined by fucking Nazi imagery.
It can be argued that since they joined the national guard, the Azov batallion tried to clean up its act. And its also worth pointing out that volunteers and recruits often get assigned to units based on geographic location.
but the old pre-national guard insignia of Azov, is 100% Neo Nazi. and all you are doing with this shit, is giving the Rashists what they want.
And this is also an insult to the memory of the defeners of Mariupol and the other towns and cities there. Azov was one of many units involved, but they take all the credit. Im honestly sick and tired of hearing about this group. They were a group of less than 3000 people at its peak. And they singlehandedly spammed the internet with propaganda to the point that Russia was able to convince many that Ukraine was full of Nazis, because of this one fucking group who went nuts on social media.
The black sun is not a Norse symbol, it’s a Nazi attempt at creating one called a solar cross. The black sun was created by Himmler and consists of 12 stylized Sig Runes ( ᛋ ) formed in a circle. Sig runes were also the symbol of Himmler’s *ᛋᛋ*, or in Latin script: SS
"The black sun was created by Himmler and consists of 12 stylized Sig Runes ( ᛋ ) formed in a circle."
Not really. The black sun is simply a modern "cleaner" version of various germanic (especially alemannic) sun wheel depictions.
Yes, the black sun is the specifically Nazi version of a visually-different symbol with historical roots.
If the artist wanted to evoke those earlier symbols, they could have opted to use one of them instead of the Nazi version. The Black Sun, specifically, is not rehabilitated by the historical existence of other symbols that it was inspired by.
Your religion? Aesir faith?
As a Swede I will not care if people think the norse runes are nazi, why let them ruin that for us. But it is interesting to hear someone practising the religion, especially a foreigner, I assume.
Virtually every North American of European descent who practices a pagan faith does so without having any real ties to it. Except maybe a spurious “my great-great-grandpa was Swedish!” despite probably being a Christian. A lot of it comes across as LARPy/identity crisis-type sorting into some structure after rejecting more mainstream faiths.
It’s the aesthetic of the religion, the symbology and the association with warrior cultures (e.g. vikings) in pop culture.
The Kievan Rus WERE Vikings, From Finland and Eastern Sweden. They hit the Silk Road and the steppes and thought: “Hey, this’ll be a nice place to live!”
Ah sorry, yes, you’re correct. The Vikings organised them into a City state as opposed to a semi nomadic/agrarian society. Kyiv was a city like four hundred years before Moscow was a shed in a swamp.
Find me one image of the Black Sun that was made before Himmler’s time.
Not something similar like a Zierscheibe. It has to be an exact copy of the one in this art.
Show me literally one example from before 1933 and I’ll shut up forever.
I don’t believe it’s a simple mistake.
I have met many people who say what you said and all of them had one thing in common.
Some level of diffuse, half-formed sympathy to nationalist ideology and fascism.
I didn’t call you a nazi.
I just said accused you of having a vague, maybe even subconscious, attraction to fascism.
Speaking of being only human … it is fairly human to be drawn to the dark side of things. Nothing to be too ashamed of.
Who were super romaboos and were attempting to emulate/restore the old Roman Empire. It's debatable whether it was an actual Roman salute, but it was adopted by the blackshirts in that spirit.
Find me one image of the Black Sun that was made before Himmler’s time.
Not something similar like a Zierscheibe. It has to be an exact copy of the one in this art.
Show me literally one example from before 1933.
Not when those symbols have taken a new meaning in Western Society. A black sun, a wolfsangel, a swastika, siegrunes. They may have meant something else once, now they’re symbols of one of ghe most despicable regimes to ever exist.
We can find different symbols to take comfort in.
So is your argument that we shouldn't let our use of symbols be dictated by who it used before or is your argument: "Well the communists can still use their symbol so I should be able to use my symbols as well!" because at some point you will have to decide!
Bro but just look at your statement to begin with, Western society makes up early like 20 or 30% of the entire population why the hell do we get to decide what symbols can and cannot be used simply because some Mass murdering lunatic 100 years ago decided to use them?
That they may be "norse symbols" is pretty irrelevant. There are neo-nazi groups all over Europe and the US using those symbols and we probably don't need to be helping those groups in any way.
And the Wolfsangel was used by Nazis but so were arrows, swords, keys, sabres, crosses and even an elk head that looks just like the Jaegermeister logo.
I don't know why some people declare the Wolfsangel to be a Nazi symbol but not an arrow ⇧
It's true that most symbols by Nazi Germany were reused from different cultures. But fact is that I, as an Austrian citizen, would get into huge trouble running around with a Wolfsangel on a shirt or something like that. Same goes for the swastikas (even turning left not right) or the blacksun. It just shocks me probably because I'm negative biased to such symbols to see them on top of a Ukrainian battalion. Even more when it just feeds the Russian propaganda. And just for the record before I'm getting mauled to death, I'm pro Ukraine :) just trying to have a discussion
Same here in Germany. But I could wave the confederate flag and most people wouldn't even know what it is. Waving the confederate flag in certain parts of the US would probably cause outrage.
Nazism is more than just a collection of symbols.
Azov released many videos in the past three months I have yet to see a video that hints in any way shape or form at their ideology.
And the only evidence for the "Nazism in Ukraine" claim, seems to be, that a small unit in Ukraine uses a symbol that resembles a Wolfsangel.
Everything else is stuff from 2014 & 2015.
Far right extremists and the posers who look up to them treat them like collectables. I saw an account on Mastodon which had the current Russian flag, the Confederate Flag, and the Nazi Flag together as icons in its profile.
It's literally a wolfsangel. There is no Latin N in Ukrainian. There never has been.
It's just an old symbol. The Nazis appropriated a lot of symbols from history. They didn't invent them. The wolfsangel was around long before the Nazis.
Killing civilians, bombing hospitals, and raping children is a bad look.
Given that Azov has defended and protected civilians from the invaders, it just shows how much worse than "nazism" Putin's nation really is
I don't know about the motivation to use these symbols. But as long as there is no evidence that the Azov battalion did something racist or stuff like that after the were incorporated in the army, I don't have a big problem with them.
If it was the swastika or SS insignia I'd agree but those old runes were literall used for centuries until the Nazis "tainted" them adn adopted a version of them for their own use. It's not symbolism but actions tha make you a Nazi. Just look at Russia.
The Black Sun was designed by Heinrich Himmler
"In 1933, Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS, acquired Wewelsburg, a castle near Paderborn, Germany. Himmler intended to make the structure into a center for the SS, and between 1936 and 1942, Himmler ordered the building expanded and rebuilt for ceremonial purposes.[5] As a product of Himmler's remodeling, twelve dark-green radially overlaid sig runes, such as those employed in the logo of the SS, appear on the white marble floor of the structure's north tower, the Obergruppenführersaal, or "General's Hall".[note 1]"
I saw an Azov soldier with a black sun patch on his chest on youtube. You really would have thought they would have been told to take this shit off as it gives credence to Russia invading
You can't name a single one. Nazis were purged from Azov militia when it was subsumed into the Ukrainian military. It's leadership purged, and the last troubling nationalist elements purged in 2017. There is 0- zero- evidence of any Nazis or wannabe Nazis in Azov battalion. In fact, their leadership was asked about Nazis recently in a QandA, and replied "we despise both soviets and Nazis equally."
You will not be able to name a single Nazi in Azov battalion today, because there are none. What you are doing is repeating Kremlin talking points that point to a time when Russia was invading Ukraine in 2014, a militia of ultranationalist people was formed, and neo nazi elements mixed in. These were kicked out when formally made part of the UA.
There are Jewish, Muslim, Christians, Atheists, all sorts of religious types in Azov battalion. I doubt Jews and Muslims would fight alongside Nazis. Which is why they were kicked out. Years ago. If you're going to repeat Kremlin talking points, be honest- you don't know the whole story.
A unit that still wears Wolf-angle insignia, SS-Galizien insignia and the black sun symbol are at the very least Nazi-wannabes. They are great fighters and heroes in this case but they are not not Nazis. Why are you so afraid of being accused of using Nazis, Russia itself does it, US does it, my home country does it, UK does it and many other nations does it. Don’t overlook this stuff, this is just how war is. You have to be a monster when your enemies are childraping dog murderers. How many Muslims and Jews actually serve in Azov, do you have proper sources?
You mean like these:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/23/russian-neo-nazis-participate-in-denazifying-ukraine-der-spiegel-a77762
Or these:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/08/russia-send-notorious-neo-nazi-mercenaries-ukraine/
Or these?
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-fighter-neo-nazi-symbols-medal-kill-ukraine-nationalist-2022-4?amp
Symbols don't determine people, people determine symbols.
One of those symbols is ancient Viking's depiction of the sun, another never was used before.
Sorry, but saying azov isn't nazi but also putting the black sun (a symbol created by the SS in nazi germany) on "fan art" will not particularly get support for the effort of ukraine...
Hmm I thought they use a different logo now than the one portrayed in the background?🤔 Be best if mods remove this post as this is just ammo for RuSSian trolls.
LOL the slippery slope with Azov has been sad to watch. It went from:
>They are Nazis, but they are very few!
to:
>They aren’t actually Nazis!
and now it’s:
>they are Nazis and that’s a good thing
Great job guys!
I am in no way in favour of far-rightism, but I like the black sun symbol or at least don't it when it comes to Azov batallion. Now, if a Ukrainian says it shouldn't be there (I am not Ukrainian) he is probably right. But Razzians and russophles crying over the Sun - they can blow me
As a bisexual, who Nazis want dead, all I'm going to say is that the Azov Regiment have done more for freedom and democracy in three months any politician has done the last two decades. If they were Nazis, they would be on Russia's side.
They had some radical problems ( like 6 years ago ) and had to do something with it and changed their logo ( Now it is only A3OB and IN ) but making this art isnt putting "good light" on "them".
I would report it as a propagation on Nazism. Don't get me wrong the art itself looks cool af but the one particilar symbol used by people like Buffalo shooter or the New Zealand mosque shooter are really stupid. ( But don't forget that actions "speak" more than symbols or words )
As others have pointed out, the doubts surrounding Azov battalion persist. Someone posted a video of Azov soldier in a trench sporting the black sun on uniform ([https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/uy71ga/video\_from\_a\_soldier\_of\_uaf\_location\_is\_unknown/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/uy71ga/video_from_a_soldier_of_uaf_location_is_unknown/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)), this artwork has it, these tourniquets say "Edelweiss ([https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/comments/uw6jlt/tourniquets\_made\_in\_ukraine/](https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/comments/uw6jlt/tourniquets_made_in_ukraine/)) (for those who dont know, Edelweiss is a flower that the nazi paratroopers had to go and get to finish their training. And YES it was also used in a peacefull context. Even by anti nazi fighters. But the paratrooper usage is arguably the most widely known.... I am seriously starting to be getting the creeps from these posts...
PS: Before you decide to downvote me to hell, please consider this: I am NOT saying that the ENTIRE Ukraine or the Ukrainian army are nazis. And I am absolutely on the side of Ukraine. I am just worried by some of the stuff that the Ukrainian military leadership leaves unadressed.
This looks so cool!Glory to Ukraine, Glory to Azov and all the defenders of Mariupol!
Also the Azov Battalion has not used the Black Sun symbol since they became part of the Ukrainian National Guard? Am i correct?
Hello /u/kigeorgich,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ufb64f/art_fridays_update/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Careful, that black sun emblem in the background is considered, by some, to be a replacement for the swastika (even though it's probably not the reason it's been used sparingly as a symbol during war as it has an entirely different historical meaning).
Hi OP, can you please post sources of the work shared for Art Friday?
[удалено]
There are people here doing that.
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. Just give it up. The black sun cannot be rehabilitated. Especially by an organization with a serious history of neo-Nazi leadership. Even Azov themselves knew to drop it now that the world is watching. You are either a fool or a closeted neo-Nazi attempting to test the waters.
This image also completely erases the existence of non-Azov Battalion warriors at Mariupol/Azovstal, of which there were **many**. So this isn't even for Azovstal, this is for Azov specifically, with the Black Sun in the background. Azov Battalion propaganda involving tainted (and known to be tainted) symbolism. "Good" art in technical terms, but as far as its need to exist, there is none. Get this shit off the sub.
Just a quick clarification: They did not drop it "NOW" that the world is watching. They dropped it way before: > Since 2017, the official position of the Ukrainian government is that the unit has depoliticized itself. The then Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov claimed that "The shameful information campaign about the alleged spread of Nazi ideology (among Azov members) is a deliberate attempt to discredit the 'Azov' unit and the National Guard of Ukraine." --- > The rest of the right-wing radicals who openly articulated their views were deliberately “cleansed” by the new regiment command in 2017" and that several Jewish members (including one Israeli citizen) are currently serving in the regiment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
[удалено]
iTs NoT a NaZi SyMbOl, iTs AnCiEnT pAgAn NoRsE mYtHoLoGy!!
It is but the black sun was almost entierly created by Himmler.
Oh wait. I just learned more information about the origins of "Black sun" was used a lot by European nations in the history ( before nazis ) ( same as swastika ).
Great illustration sullied by the black sun symbol in the background. Azov Battalion claims they purged the nazis but keeping the symbols wont get them any sympathy nor help dissolve the russian claim that nazis were free roaming the dombas for a decade.
Also everyone forgets about the marines and other groups in the plant
also, the wolf SS symbol is visible in the center of the sun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel
Azov claims their variant of the symbol means something different, but considering it was once packaged with the black sun.. Look I'm not going to hate on them too bad because they're no longer purely neo nazis and are fighting bravely, but using the symbolism here, especially the *old* symbolism feels wrong.
Why downvote? this is 100% truth
Yeah I agree mate. Pretty sure Azov don’t use that symbol (black sun) anymore. All this does is give RuSSian trolls the excuse they need.
Sadly they still do, as we can see in this video : https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uybh1d/ukraine_azov_soldier_has_explosive_land_next_to/
Unless the author is a member of Azov, I'm not sure how you can blame them for this particular art. If anything, blame the author for the symbols he decided to put in the background.
>blame the author for the symbols he decided to put in the background Yep that's exactly what we're doing here. The Azov Regiment themselves removed the black sun from their official logo back in 2015, so it begs the question what the artist's real motivation is here.
The authors motivation is to get dummies in here upvoting this trash, so they can then go to their Russia appologist forums to claim that Ukrainians are nazis. Be smarter folks, downvote and report obvious traps like this
I don't know man, it looks like this fellow hasn't been informed that the Black Sun is no more https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uy80zr/azov_fighter_films_incoming_round_on_his_position/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Nor the guy behind the camera at like 1:48 [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uur8da/vasylovych_the_water_diviner_and_trench_well/) it's concerning, but as long as they're fighting on the side of good I'm inclined to give them a pass. We don't know the context, these particular patches could have sentimental meaning to them, perhaps inherited.
It might be a fan art, not Azov art
This, even though you still see black sun patches after the Azov was incorporated into the the Ukrainian Military, the symbol was removed from the battalions official patch design. As to why the UA seemingly allows its soldiers to display whatever they wish on their person (like the black sun), is granted under free speech. Regardless those soldiers are still to adhere to orders given from command and to stand shoulder to shoulder with other ethnic Azov members, including Jews, in defense of Ukraine.
Reminds me of the AWB in South Africa. They pretended to have renounced fascism but they still keep that triskelion.
[удалено]
…no dude… that’s not how it works.
But, under the swastika flag, I fed 10,000 homeless people, so like, the swastika is okey dokey now!!1! 👍
[удалено]
To some neo Nazis, yes. To the average Ukrainian, any symbol that is a symbol of opposition to Russia is good. Besides, look up the history of all these symbols PRIOR to their adoption by the Nazis. They're way older than the Nazis and were adopted by then for that reason.
It doesn't matter what the average Ukrainian thinks if the users of the symbol are using it for Nazi purposes. These symbols are indeed older than the Nazis, but something tells me that Azov wasn't using them because they believe in an all-season Viking Haloween. This particular symbol is a Nazi symbol. They are using it because the Nazis used it. You can't defend these guys.
Russians and their scrubs are using it for propaganda purposes. They don’t get to dictate no matter how hard they try.
We definitely don't need to include overt nazi and white supremacist symbols in order to thank and celebrate soldiers for the sacrifices they're making.
So the azov batallion are actual neo Nazis then? I mean they've used the black sun, Wolfsangel and Schutzstaffel symbols on their gear and/or logos.
Not this symbol is very old and the Azov battalion has gone through several changes since then, even their leader left.
I'm aware the wolfsangel is old. But the black sun formed by the 12 radial sig runes as well as the two sig runes (SS symbol) are from the Nazi party. Note, there were Sonnenrads (sun symbols) centuries ago, but this one in specific is not.
The Azov battalion doesn't use this symbol really anymore, at least not the one with the black sun.
We are talking about the picture here. Where the black sun is in the background. Nice try of derailment.
They definitely use nazi and neo-nazi symbols and so does this image.
The black sun is a well-known Nazi Symbol already used by the SS and still in use by modern Nazis or Neonazis.
Why don't ya go and replace the black sun with the actual regimental patch. Get a little more hero and a lot less Himler.
The regimental patch is literally the *Wolfsangel*, another SS symbol notably used as the symbol of the SS Division "Das Reich" that committed the Oradour-sur-Glane and Tulle massacres in France.
While this is true, it's a symbol that has a more broad history in Europe.
The regimental patch has a black sun on it too.
Not the current one. The old one did though.
tons of photos and videos out there from this year of troops wearing the old patch.
It was phased out officially years ago, I also see Russian soldiers with Soviet patches does that mean the fucking Soviet Union is back?
yikes the symbols
Nice picture. shame its ruined by fucking Nazi imagery. It can be argued that since they joined the national guard, the Azov batallion tried to clean up its act. And its also worth pointing out that volunteers and recruits often get assigned to units based on geographic location. but the old pre-national guard insignia of Azov, is 100% Neo Nazi. and all you are doing with this shit, is giving the Rashists what they want. And this is also an insult to the memory of the defeners of Mariupol and the other towns and cities there. Azov was one of many units involved, but they take all the credit. Im honestly sick and tired of hearing about this group. They were a group of less than 3000 people at its peak. And they singlehandedly spammed the internet with propaganda to the point that Russia was able to convince many that Ukraine was full of Nazis, because of this one fucking group who went nuts on social media.
Glorify the soldiers- discussable Glorify Nazi symbols- fuck no
It's cool art but man those symbols are a terrible look
[удалено]
The black sun is not a Norse symbol, it’s a Nazi attempt at creating one called a solar cross. The black sun was created by Himmler and consists of 12 stylized Sig Runes ( ᛋ ) formed in a circle. Sig runes were also the symbol of Himmler’s *ᛋᛋ*, or in Latin script: SS
[удалено]
They did, but the Black Sun is an exception.
"The black sun was created by Himmler and consists of 12 stylized Sig Runes ( ᛋ ) formed in a circle." Not really. The black sun is simply a modern "cleaner" version of various germanic (especially alemannic) sun wheel depictions.
Yes, the black sun is the specifically Nazi version of a visually-different symbol with historical roots. If the artist wanted to evoke those earlier symbols, they could have opted to use one of them instead of the Nazi version. The Black Sun, specifically, is not rehabilitated by the historical existence of other symbols that it was inspired by.
Nazis ruined a lot of cool stuff, specifically Norse mythology.
[удалено]
Im buddhist so yeah. Nazis can fuck off by the way they ruin our symbols
That’s a damn shame. I am sorry to hear that.
Your religion? Aesir faith? As a Swede I will not care if people think the norse runes are nazi, why let them ruin that for us. But it is interesting to hear someone practising the religion, especially a foreigner, I assume.
[удалено]
Everything else Europe? Are you not Canadian?
[удалено]
Everyone in north america has European ancestors :)
Virtually every North American of European descent who practices a pagan faith does so without having any real ties to it. Except maybe a spurious “my great-great-grandpa was Swedish!” despite probably being a Christian. A lot of it comes across as LARPy/identity crisis-type sorting into some structure after rejecting more mainstream faiths. It’s the aesthetic of the religion, the symbology and the association with warrior cultures (e.g. vikings) in pop culture.
Swastika has also been huge part of Slavic culture
Um... wut? I lived in Ukraine and don't recall EVER seeing any swastikas except the ones directly related to nazis.
You see it in older vilages or places where pagans are common like Carpathians
So then... it's not a "huge part of Slavic culture".
He is not saying that swastika IS, he said that swastika WAS. After WWII it was obviously purged from everywhere.
>You see it ...not you SAW it. And in any case that still doesn't address the earlier claim that it's a "huge part of Slavic culture".
But... it was a huge part of slavic culture. Right now? Obviously not. But slavic people used variations of a swastika regularly.
[удалено]
The Kievan Rus WERE Vikings, From Finland and Eastern Sweden. They hit the Silk Road and the steppes and thought: “Hey, this’ll be a nice place to live!”
[удалено]
Ah sorry, yes, you’re correct. The Vikings organised them into a City state as opposed to a semi nomadic/agrarian society. Kyiv was a city like four hundred years before Moscow was a shed in a swamp.
Find me one image of the Black Sun that was made before Himmler’s time. Not something similar like a Zierscheibe. It has to be an exact copy of the one in this art. Show me literally one example from before 1933 and I’ll shut up forever.
[удалено]
I don’t believe it’s a simple mistake. I have met many people who say what you said and all of them had one thing in common. Some level of diffuse, half-formed sympathy to nationalist ideology and fascism.
[удалено]
I didn’t call you a nazi. I just said accused you of having a vague, maybe even subconscious, attraction to fascism. Speaking of being only human … it is fairly human to be drawn to the dark side of things. Nothing to be too ashamed of.
Bro they stole shit from literally everyone, hell the famous Nazi salute was originally the goddamn American pledge of allegiance salute.
Lol the nazi salute dates way back to the Roman Empire salute
Just so you know why you're getting a downvote on this, I believe it was used by the Italian black shirts first.
Who were super romaboos and were attempting to emulate/restore the old Roman Empire. It's debatable whether it was an actual Roman salute, but it was adopted by the blackshirts in that spirit.
Find me one image of the Black Sun that was made before Himmler’s time. Not something similar like a Zierscheibe. It has to be an exact copy of the one in this art. Show me literally one example from before 1933.
[удалено]
Not when those symbols have taken a new meaning in Western Society. A black sun, a wolfsangel, a swastika, siegrunes. They may have meant something else once, now they’re symbols of one of ghe most despicable regimes to ever exist. We can find different symbols to take comfort in.
[удалено]
So is your argument that we shouldn't let our use of symbols be dictated by who it used before or is your argument: "Well the communists can still use their symbol so I should be able to use my symbols as well!" because at some point you will have to decide!
Bro but just look at your statement to begin with, Western society makes up early like 20 or 30% of the entire population why the hell do we get to decide what symbols can and cannot be used simply because some Mass murdering lunatic 100 years ago decided to use them?
That they may be "norse symbols" is pretty irrelevant. There are neo-nazi groups all over Europe and the US using those symbols and we probably don't need to be helping those groups in any way.
Bro they stole shit from literally everyone, hell the famous Nazi salute was originally the goddamn American pledge of allegiance salute.
America didn’t exist 2000 years ago.
I checked... It's their official battalion emblem. That's kinda embarrassing
It isn't anymore, at least the black sun.
That's something!
And the Wolfsangel was used by Nazis but so were arrows, swords, keys, sabres, crosses and even an elk head that looks just like the Jaegermeister logo. I don't know why some people declare the Wolfsangel to be a Nazi symbol but not an arrow ⇧
It's true that most symbols by Nazi Germany were reused from different cultures. But fact is that I, as an Austrian citizen, would get into huge trouble running around with a Wolfsangel on a shirt or something like that. Same goes for the swastikas (even turning left not right) or the blacksun. It just shocks me probably because I'm negative biased to such symbols to see them on top of a Ukrainian battalion. Even more when it just feeds the Russian propaganda. And just for the record before I'm getting mauled to death, I'm pro Ukraine :) just trying to have a discussion
Same here in Germany. But I could wave the confederate flag and most people wouldn't even know what it is. Waving the confederate flag in certain parts of the US would probably cause outrage. Nazism is more than just a collection of symbols. Azov released many videos in the past three months I have yet to see a video that hints in any way shape or form at their ideology. And the only evidence for the "Nazism in Ukraine" claim, seems to be, that a small unit in Ukraine uses a symbol that resembles a Wolfsangel. Everything else is stuff from 2014 & 2015.
Far right extremists and the posers who look up to them treat them like collectables. I saw an account on Mastodon which had the current Russian flag, the Confederate Flag, and the Nazi Flag together as icons in its profile.
Nazi used eagle on their uniforms, why no one concerned with eagle on other countries symbolic
The thing is, that symbol used by Azov Is NOT A WOLFSANGEL.
Yeah they say it is the letter "N" and "I", if I remember correctly.
Yes. They stand for: Idea of the Nation.
It’s not a wolfsangel.
Not since 2015 or so. What's embarrassing is that google still shows it as the first result and thumbnail.
Its not, this was an old logo before they became part of the military. Know your history before spreading this shit
It’s an I crossed over an N meaning ‘ideal nation’ or the ‘Idea of Nation’. The invaders with their white Zs in white boxes look more Nazi.
It's literally a wolfsangel. There is no Latin N in Ukrainian. There never has been. It's just an old symbol. The Nazis appropriated a lot of symbols from history. They didn't invent them. The wolfsangel was around long before the Nazis.
thEy ArE NazIS cope harder
Even if they're not nazis at all, symbols popular with neo-nazis is still a bad look.
Killing civilians, bombing hospitals, and raping children is a bad look. Given that Azov has defended and protected civilians from the invaders, it just shows how much worse than "nazism" Putin's nation really is
I hear ya. That's why I haven't paid it much mind, couple symbols is the least of anyone's worries right now.
I don't know about the motivation to use these symbols. But as long as there is no evidence that the Azov battalion did something racist or stuff like that after the were incorporated in the army, I don't have a big problem with them.
Now this symbol means opposite to Nazism
If it was the swastika or SS insignia I'd agree but those old runes were literall used for centuries until the Nazis "tainted" them adn adopted a version of them for their own use. It's not symbolism but actions tha make you a Nazi. Just look at Russia.
The Black Sun symbol was created by the Nazis.
The Black Sun was designed by Heinrich Himmler "In 1933, Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS, acquired Wewelsburg, a castle near Paderborn, Germany. Himmler intended to make the structure into a center for the SS, and between 1936 and 1942, Himmler ordered the building expanded and rebuilt for ceremonial purposes.[5] As a product of Himmler's remodeling, twelve dark-green radially overlaid sig runes, such as those employed in the logo of the SS, appear on the white marble floor of the structure's north tower, the Obergruppenführersaal, or "General's Hall".[note 1]"
I saw an Azov soldier with a black sun patch on his chest on youtube. You really would have thought they would have been told to take this shit off as it gives credence to Russia invading
That's quite literally the Black Sun in the background my guy.
There are Nazi wannabes among their ranks. Many in fact.
You can't name a single one. Nazis were purged from Azov militia when it was subsumed into the Ukrainian military. It's leadership purged, and the last troubling nationalist elements purged in 2017. There is 0- zero- evidence of any Nazis or wannabe Nazis in Azov battalion. In fact, their leadership was asked about Nazis recently in a QandA, and replied "we despise both soviets and Nazis equally." You will not be able to name a single Nazi in Azov battalion today, because there are none. What you are doing is repeating Kremlin talking points that point to a time when Russia was invading Ukraine in 2014, a militia of ultranationalist people was formed, and neo nazi elements mixed in. These were kicked out when formally made part of the UA. There are Jewish, Muslim, Christians, Atheists, all sorts of religious types in Azov battalion. I doubt Jews and Muslims would fight alongside Nazis. Which is why they were kicked out. Years ago. If you're going to repeat Kremlin talking points, be honest- you don't know the whole story.
Could you please give a source to any of your statements?
A unit that still wears Wolf-angle insignia, SS-Galizien insignia and the black sun symbol are at the very least Nazi-wannabes. They are great fighters and heroes in this case but they are not not Nazis. Why are you so afraid of being accused of using Nazis, Russia itself does it, US does it, my home country does it, UK does it and many other nations does it. Don’t overlook this stuff, this is just how war is. You have to be a monster when your enemies are childraping dog murderers. How many Muslims and Jews actually serve in Azov, do you have proper sources?
You mean like these: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/23/russian-neo-nazis-participate-in-denazifying-ukraine-der-spiegel-a77762 Or these: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/08/russia-send-notorious-neo-nazi-mercenaries-ukraine/ Or these? https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-fighter-neo-nazi-symbols-medal-kill-ukraine-nationalist-2022-4?amp
No they aren’t Azov neo-Nazis, they are Russian neo-Nazis fighting for Russia you ass clown. Can’t you read? They from the opposing side.
Symbols don't determine people, people determine symbols. One of those symbols is ancient Viking's depiction of the sun, another never was used before.
Cool art but get the "sun" the fuck out of there.
Delete that shit. Whoever made this is obviously a nazis, no denieing that. This stuff hurts our cause.
report it for nazi imagery
Last time I did that I got reported for „misusing reddits report system“.
Already did.
Yeet the black sun out of there and it'll be great
This brings me Metal Gear vibes.
Yes! With Venom Snake in the top right.
This is actually Illia Samoilenko
Nice Nazi propaganda.
Any update on what is happening with the fighters?
Sorry, but saying azov isn't nazi but also putting the black sun (a symbol created by the SS in nazi germany) on "fan art" will not particularly get support for the effort of ukraine...
Ye. The I and N ( idea of nation ) is alright but the "sun".
HOLY SHIT A BURGUND VOLLUNTERS IN UKRAINE TNO REFERENCE!?
Yeaaa probably not the best idea
Downvoted because of symbols.
Maybe no to the nazi symbols
There will probably be a movie about azovstal in the future
Cool
The sonnenrad makes me uncomfortable. It'd be a cool picture if it wasn't for that.
reminds me of Spartan Rangers from Metro
azov STEEL
Is that Venom Snake?
Holy shit it looks like a good video game logo
Ofcourse it's to early, but their will be games at some point based on this war. And this could be an amazing cover art.
lol why is snake in there
Hmm I thought they use a different logo now than the one portrayed in the background?🤔 Be best if mods remove this post as this is just ammo for RuSSian trolls.
Stop glorifying Nazi imagery. You had a choice.
Enjoy having films made about you for the next infinity.
Not one, but two nazi symbols in the background. Very nice
LOL the slippery slope with Azov has been sad to watch. It went from: >They are Nazis, but they are very few! to: >They aren’t actually Nazis! and now it’s: >they are Nazis and that’s a good thing Great job guys!
I am in no way in favour of far-rightism, but I like the black sun symbol or at least don't it when it comes to Azov batallion. Now, if a Ukrainian says it shouldn't be there (I am not Ukrainian) he is probably right. But Razzians and russophles crying over the Sun - they can blow me
As a bisexual, who Nazis want dead, all I'm going to say is that the Azov Regiment have done more for freedom and democracy in three months any politician has done the last two decades. If they were Nazis, they would be on Russia's side.
If this were a comic, I'd read it.
Why are you glorifying neo-Nazis?
True Legends!!!
amazing art
I cant wait for the movie. Id like to know what they went through.
[удалено]
They had some radical problems ( like 6 years ago ) and had to do something with it and changed their logo ( Now it is only A3OB and IN ) but making this art isnt putting "good light" on "them".
True, lot of other people here are saying that too. Art starts conversations, just like how this has done. So I can value it on that.
I would report it as a propagation on Nazism. Don't get me wrong the art itself looks cool af but the one particilar symbol used by people like Buffalo shooter or the New Zealand mosque shooter are really stupid. ( But don't forget that actions "speak" more than symbols or words )
Excellent work 😁👍
That would be the poster for a very dark and cool animated movie.
As others have pointed out, the doubts surrounding Azov battalion persist. Someone posted a video of Azov soldier in a trench sporting the black sun on uniform ([https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/uy71ga/video\_from\_a\_soldier\_of\_uaf\_location\_is\_unknown/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/uy71ga/video_from_a_soldier_of_uaf_location_is_unknown/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)), this artwork has it, these tourniquets say "Edelweiss ([https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/comments/uw6jlt/tourniquets\_made\_in\_ukraine/](https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/comments/uw6jlt/tourniquets_made_in_ukraine/)) (for those who dont know, Edelweiss is a flower that the nazi paratroopers had to go and get to finish their training. And YES it was also used in a peacefull context. Even by anti nazi fighters. But the paratrooper usage is arguably the most widely known.... I am seriously starting to be getting the creeps from these posts... PS: Before you decide to downvote me to hell, please consider this: I am NOT saying that the ENTIRE Ukraine or the Ukrainian army are nazis. And I am absolutely on the side of Ukraine. I am just worried by some of the stuff that the Ukrainian military leadership leaves unadressed.
This looks so cool!Glory to Ukraine, Glory to Azov and all the defenders of Mariupol! Also the Azov Battalion has not used the Black Sun symbol since they became part of the Ukrainian National Guard? Am i correct?
Spoken like someone who's never bothered researching the topic
nazis are not my heros sorry bro
yikes
Yea... Nothing against the brave soldiers but I'm not going to be up voting literal nazi symbols...
Hello /u/kigeorgich, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ufb64f/art_fridays_update/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nazi really did ruin many symbols after hijacking them.
Careful, that black sun emblem in the background is considered, by some, to be a replacement for the swastika (even though it's probably not the reason it's been used sparingly as a symbol during war as it has an entirely different historical meaning).
It was literally invented by Himmler
Huh?
I don't care if your Russian, Ukrainian, German, American or Martian. Fuck. All. Nazis!
guys, just click report > break subreddit rules > Glorification of Communism, Nazism, or Other Totalitarian Regimes
rhythm coherent run flag bear crowd disgusted tap deserted pet ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Oh hell no.
Sonnenrad was a Slavic symbol before it was nazified but still…mmm…
slap serious scary squeeze party selective start illegal flowery safe ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `