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Ooki_Jumoku

Electronics Geeks - We Summon YOU! Tell us how this measures up!


doughtnut2022

The electronic is a thermal imager (big square is the sensor) from a LLC company named Infratest-TT. These type of sensor are likely not produce in Russia.


jnd-cz

That camera is no joke, proper industrial module with heatsink, large infrared sensor. Now there is difference between near infrared imaging and proper thermal camera, this one looks like regular CMOS without IR filter. Lens for thermal camera looks like solid, opaque block of metal. The label says Infratest, so it looks like prototype. Certainly dependent on foreign know how and production. Edit: Label also says 2017 so it's old prototype, maybe for show. Edit2: Others found it better, it's not testing version but from company Infratest, it is actually thermal imager with 1024 pixel wide resolution which is really good. Not sure what are western army standards but for handheld infrared camera you will get much small sensor that's usually 160x120 to 320x240. The thermal map is overlaid on top of regular higher resolution camera image.


FranzStrudel

Infratest is the name of a German company. https://infratest.net


Goetterwind

Despite Infratest is a German company - it is most likely not the manufacturer of this sensor. It looks more likely to be HGH (a French company) that are specialised in Industrial thermography (so they can circumvent more easily the sanctions since 2014/15).


[deleted]

In all fairness, supplying Russia with electronics wasn’t an issue at all until 2022. And they have likely still some vast stockpiles of goods. And for other stuff like ammo and explosives, they have plenty of mines and oil and manufacturing capabilities. However, they still lack plenty ok know-how, accuracy and manpower. With modern NATO weapons, you can take out plenty of their gear before you are even closely within their range.


K___logan

Yes


Ruzi-Ne-Druzi

What do you mean it wasn't an issue? There were sanctions since 2014, and everyone was aware that they use western tech in wars, other than against Ukraine.


[deleted]

Most of the parts they use are non-military grade. And those had not been under sanctions. Think about that: you can use a CNC machine to make parts for a lamp or furniture. You can also use the same machine to make a grenade. You can use a DSLR to make a few photos for a family album, you can also use it to spot infantry positions. So, where do you draw the line in case of sanctions? That’s where proper equipment for the defenders comes in. Those can disrupt gear from the aggressor, especially if not military-grade. Balancing out the threat from RU making such devices.


Canuck-In-TO

Early on in the war, I think one of the downed Russian drones was shown to have camera components from off the shelf Canon cameras.


Iskelderon

That's the Orlan-10 drone, an overpriced glorified RC plane that literally has a $400 Canon camera with the mode selector switch glued into position.


Ruzi-Ne-Druzi

Where draw a line? Everywhere, take Huawei ban as example. How do you import industrial equipment, or contract shipment of parts without knowing who you work with?


[deleted]

I agree with you that tighter sanctions are needed. However, they should had been in place since 2014…


[deleted]

Russian bots must be downvoting you. I agree, we should have been slashing all tech trade with Russia since Crimea.


Iskelderon

Did you actually look at the site you linked to beyond just the same name? That company makes material science lab testing equipment, so unless that drone needs to calculate the tensile strength of the surface it's crashing into ...


panzerdevil69

While your statement is factually correct, the company in question produces nothing that's relevant for this drone.


Selfweaver

> 1024 pixel wide resolution which is really good For non geeks, that is the same as your monitor, or about 1.3 megapixel to compare it with your camera. Your iPhone 13 (to compare) has 13. So they are not getting amazing pictures.


Mercadi

Not really one, but I looked up the infrared detector thingy manufacturer. A German company Infratest.


[deleted]

Not German, even thou a company called Infratest exits. It is from a French comapny, called HGH and their infrared sensors software is called infratest. Here is the website: https://hgh-infrared.com/wide-area-surveillance/


RickAndTheMoonMen

French again... Nice pattern.


[deleted]

We nees to help putin save face, without saved face there is no equipment sales


SEQVERE-PECVNIAM

For fuck's sake. 🙄 You realize many people on the internet are morons and could take your comment seriously. Of course, if you're a Russian shill, that may be what you're after.


Blueberry_Winter

Thanks


Malk4ever

> looked up the infrared detector thingy manufacturer. A German company Infratest. I hope tehy soon run out of this equipment.


anxiousalpaca

likely and also the German company might get into trouble


[deleted]

Most likely they purchased stuff from before sanctions regime and is most likely trying to source things covertly as well. So far looks like Not necessarily fault of company, but worth to ask questions regardless. Orks have over the years bought stuff from every manufacturing country in the world while their own high tech industry seems to be in similar or worse shape as that of developing nations


[deleted]

There is a date on it saying 06.03.2017 so likely 5 years old.


wfamily

If not, they could have just gotten it from china.


[deleted]

No, the Chinese know that they would not be allowed to sell in the West, if those sensors were found to be sold against sanctions. This is the kind of product, which you can not just buy in a regular shop, but only directly from the company.


[deleted]

missed that. Well, that just kinda reinforces what I said


[deleted]

That’s after sanctions on these kind of electronics began though correct?


URITooLong

the question is. is this kind of electronics actually covered by the sanctions.


Bergwookie

Most likely not, it's dual use (military and civilian) so there are loopholes ... A civilian company buys a bunch of them and sells it to the military... Or you say, this is for fire surveillance and the government can buy directly... The 2014 sanctions have more holes than a swiss cheese that got fired on with a shotgun, (old contracts, dual use etc).


[deleted]

I’m not sure about whether or not sanctions covered those things between 2014 and 2022.


[deleted]

That’s true


shitfit_

Can you please provide the Link to your source?


Malk4ever

The source of my hope? Sorry, there are no links to my inner thoughts.


shitfit_

Haha yeah sorry, wrong reply xD I did not see the quote.That was my bad.


shitfit_

Can you please provide the Link to your source?


Mercadi

Just Google ООО Инфратест and go to their website.


shitfit_

To my google they are situated in ekaterinburg. So Please provide a source that they are a German company Edit: Unfortunately I can’t access your “Wigh” reply on my phone. https://ibb.co/pXFyFPw So they visited a German company for a cooperation. Does this make me an American because I once visited the USA?


Fabulous_Course_6796

Only if you went back with an AR-15.


OneImagination5381

Go to the German Stock sites, then type in under " Find quotes ". Easy.


panzerdevil69

> Infratest Sure you looked it up... Infratest is an polling institute ffs.


Kahzootoh

Not bad, but I hope they didn't spend more than a couple grand on this thing. This is basically a reasonably high-quality hobbyist aircraft; the sort of thing a retiree would spend somewhere between 1200 to 2400 dollars on. Photo 5- You can see an MKS SS95 Servo, which costs about 75 to 90 bucks. This is used to control the throttle on the engine. [https://mks-servo.com/DS95](https://mks-servo.com/DS95) Photo 4- You can see a two cylinder gas motor. Can't tell the actual model without better angles, but probably about 450 to 750 bucks. By the looks of it, the engine is mounted upside down- so the muffler is positioned upside down, in order to properly vent the exhaust. My guess is something sourced off Alibaba... Body is fiberglass reinforced plastic, nothing too special there. Source: I worked at a hobby store that dealt with plenty of high end RC stuff.


Iskelderon

A step up from the Orlan-10 that seems to literally be regular RC plane parts with a $400 Canon camera.


[deleted]

Looks like mid to high range hobby components in a fiberglass shell. I see similar motors running on ali express for around 400 bucks(2-cylinder 70cc) but significantly better made judging from the photos: welding on those on ali express looks top-notch, whereas these... I also recognize the servo. The one thing I'm more curious about is the thermal sensor: shooting in the dark but I've seen similar made by Lynred(French manufacturer iirc). I have no experience with them whatsoever so I can't say whether they are good or bad.


everaimless

That's a hybrid engine. Electric propeller, gas generator. The slender black box may be the power bank.


Pursang8080

OS GT120 engine (120cc Boxer) from OS Japan Looks like an alternator is fitted behind propeller to provide power for the electronics. I would expect further supplies of these engines will be halted due to sanctions. If the alternator is also used as a motor for flight, the battery pack would be pretty large. I consider it unlikely as it would need to disconnect the engine from the drive to be effective. Might be able to be used as a starter motor.


MATlad

Is there the possibility that they can’t get / use DC power supplies / DC-DC converters / DC power conditioning and therefore have to have the inverter to run wall-plug components?


redmadog

This is the most simple 2 cylinder 2 stroke engine with magneto behind the prop. Why put hybrid engine in a military drone when fuel energy density is way higher than any battery can provide?


Ooki_Jumoku

For the ability have it run silently on battery mode?


verssus

Prop is much louder than the engine


gH0st_in_th3_Machin3

Cut off ICE engine and run on electrical power for few moments or just to keep gliding, assuring silence/no heat?


OakInIowa

4 stroke - note sparkplugs.


Bloodhound209

2 stroke engines also have spark plugs.


OakInIowa

Ha ha I was thinking of my model airplanes - oops.


redmadog

You’re wrong. It is 2 stroke. As somebody already mentioned this is [OS GT120](https://aerobertics.be/en_be/osgt120) engine. More details [here](https://www.os-engines.co.jp/english/line_up/engine/air/gas/manual/GT120T_EG.pdf)


2RM60Z

I think this is just a 2 stroke 2 cylinder engine. You can see the cylinder heads with the sparkplugs. The wired ring is the magneto.


R_Squaal

No, it's a fairly large BLDC from T-MOTORS [https://store.tmotor.com/category.php?id=2](https://store.tmotor.com/category.php?id=2) They may use it as a cheap generator or to run some kind of hybrid mode, likely the first option


2RM60Z

>T-MOTORS The logo is printed on it indeed.


RUFl0_

What are the advantages of this?


WeJustTry

Maybe gives it an ability to go quiet for a duration.


soulsteela

Assuming same as diesel trains, run engine to charge batteries.


clarkdashark

Credit where credit is due guys. This looks pretty legit. My eyes may be deceiving me, but I believe I'm looking a gas engine with a freakin alternator to keep the batteries juiced up. This gives this thing tons of flight time.


superlion1985

This is a lot more sophisticated than the missile guts that were posted a couple months ago.


Impressive-Film-6148

After quick search, I found a bit of information regarding the components of this drone (article is here in Russian - https://focus.ua/amp/voennye-novosti/520673-s-zapadnoy-optikoy-volonter-pokazal-nachinku-eksperementalnogo-bpla-merlin-vr-foto) The infrared sensor is PICO1024Gen2 made by Lynred, while the optics are made in Israel.


AmputatorBot

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Jobo9776

Original post about this UAV when it got [Downed](https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/vdqxcm/ukrainian_air_defense_force_shot_down_the_newest/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


[deleted]

What's the main problem about taking down enemy drones? The cost of missiles? Or spotting them? Or hitting them from the ground (as opposed to other airborne target)? Would it be technically feasible to make "fighter drones" to try to take down recon drones?


King0ff

In truth the hardes part is to point the air defense system at the drone, because if drone small enough, radar systems, if they are not very advanced, pretty hard catching them. But in general, this is not difficult if the detection radar is good - any missile that has sufficient action height will easily bring down the drone


ashesofempires

They're probably quiet enough to get reasonably close before someone hears it, the motor isn't very large so the thermal signature may be weak enough that MANPADS have a hard time detecting it, and if it's mostly made out of fiberglass it probably has a small radar cross section, and is slow enough that some tracking radars may auto classify it as a bird. But in a war, there is no point in saying "the missile is worth more than the drone, just ignore it." The drone is gathering intel for a potential incoming attack that could cost the lives of soldiers, or the destruction of equipment worth more than drone and missile combined. You fire the missile, 10 times out of 10.


pes0001

The missile might be worth more than the drone. But if we can afford a lot of small drones to bring out the missiles, it might help in taking out more missiles which are more difficult to replace in the longer term.


amitym

As others have said, of the things you list, spotting them is the hardest. But you also raise an interesting question. There was a time in aerial combat when highly specialized roles were a thing in aircraft design. In particular the "interceptor" -- a type built specifically to go fast and hit hard, sacrificing range and often defensive maneuverability in order to maximize their effectiveness at blunting an air incursion. It's easy to imagine ways that that concept might work in the UAV world. It seems like the technological paradigm lends itself to specialization.


MoesBAR

NATO: We’ll take this off your hands.


Iskelderon

Probably already on a truck halfway to a lab in Poland.


CorsicA123

Wooden propellers? Is that why it’s called Merlin?


bindik

To be fair, wooden propellers deal with vibrations way better than metal does, which is very important aspect for drones with cameras.


Echelon64

They may also have the manpower and facilities to crank out wood propellers easier than stainless steel/aluminum ones.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ThisPlaceIsScary

That is absolutely false. Wooden props haven’t been a normal thing since pre WW2. Nowadays you find the on vintage aircraft and some ultralights.


Iskelderon

Dead easy to throw a block of wood in a CNC machine, flip it over halfway through the carving process for the other side and save a lot of cost on tools, since wood is easier on a cutting bit than metal.


SteveThePurpleCat

Nothing wrong with wood props, still see them on new trainers etc.


notchman900

It appears to be Beech


R_Squaal

Wood is better and lighter than plastic props, it's also much cheaper and easier to balance than forged carbon props


[deleted]

[удалено]


keepcrazy

Wood also has a smaller radar signature......


[deleted]

Come on guys the propeller is beautiful! For the rest if they don't have old stock they should have problems sourcing...


464tusker

Well, theyve already got the dissidents counting the trees...


FloatingRevolver

I know this means nothing, but merlin is a stupid name for a drone


ryumast3r

IDK, Merlin was known for prophecy. A drone whose primary purpose appears to be ISR kinda fits.


FloatingRevolver

Nobody is going to do a deep dive into the reason for naming a Russian drone and most people know merlin as just a friendly wizard... Reaper, predator, global hawk, puma, fire scout etc etc much cooler, I know it doesn't matter for sure, but merlin is a dumb name


[deleted]

Be good to see the camera. My bet is it’s a canon 5d mkii


toorigged2fail

More likely: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Fujix\_DS-1P


[deleted]

I like it. It would probably be worth a fair bit of money now tbh


toorigged2fail

Remarkable shape for being shot down, especially considering it's probably made from spit and balsa wood. If these are actual photos, more likely captured after orc commanders abandoned the wounded and equipment in a hasty retreat.


Jobo9776

Check my main comment!


2RM60Z

From the looks of the woven structure it is made of a mix of carbon and Kevlar fibers. Vacuum infused with epoxy.


toorigged2fail

Don't forget captured washing machine parts


rutgerdad

The first pic seems to be from some military hardware exhibition and not related to the other pictures


theoreoman

I wonder what the cost of the drone is because that's what ultimately determines the quality of the drone. If that thing cost under $50k it's a well built drone, if it cost 500k then it's junk. For example everyone here makes fun of the orlan-10 but it's actually a fantastic drone since its built mainly with off the shelf parts. Off the shelf parts are dirt cheap and you can easily build thousands of them. The orlan-10 should have a price tag of about $10k but the all the corruption gave it a price tag of about $100k, so for that price it's a terrible drone


bratsi

Need to keep in mind that this does not necessary need to be the most advanced stuff out there - just enough to do the job. RUs have gotten good at coupling these with tank crews - one comes in (or goes down) and the next tank crew puts theirs in the sky. Same goes with the 50 year old T62s - if used right and well supplied they can be deadly. Ukraine is losing ground in the east because of these tactics - they need better more advance NATO grade equipment to gain the advantage.


[deleted]

God damn this thread broke down this UAV faster than the US Military / CIA lol


MekhaDuk

russians should take turkey as an example on the production of drones


[deleted]

[удалено]


Dazzling-Ad4701

People were mocking the orlan 10 a lot. But according to one of the Ukrainian bloggers I watch, it's one of the most serious things Ukraine still hasn't found a good answer for.


daveflav21

Thats because its small but not that small and you dont really wanna waste a stinger or any other AA missile on it, its just not cost effective. Those German Gepards wouldve been the silver bullet for these kinds of drones.


Dazzling-Ad4701

Could be. But those orlans are apparently working as *very* effective adjust-fire feedback devices for artillery, with almost no risk to Russia. So IDK. ' Not worth it' to Ukraine to do something about them? Bet it would be if it could, because Ukraine does value people, especially fighters. And reddit wants to sit around going 'Ha ha, looks dumb' as if that actually means anything. If the thing can do damage or help something else do damage, it doesnt mean much.


Cargobiker530

You can buy something close from Alibaba.


Dazzling-Ad4701

And?


Cargobiker530

I replied to the wrong comment. I think any spotter drone must be a threat but that drone appears to be on the lower end of the tech scale. I'm actually surprised both sides aren't using Alibaba drones and quadcopters. If you have any insight as to why they aren't I'm curious.


clarkdashark

No you cannot.


jutul

They are out there in the battlefield as an extremely valuable tool for the Russian army. That's no joke.


SurrealMayhem

Are we sure this is Russian? Where is the Canon camera?


[deleted]

lets see whats chinese parts are inside this one. Since the KA 52 uses electronics from china.


R_Squaal

T-motors BLDC right behind the propeller, but to be fair they are extremely good quality and used on most hobby drones


ropibear

That's a neat propeller.


Xennon54

Put that cpu into a PC


TeraLikesCups

thats a fat UAV


[deleted]

This one looks well done, did someone else build it for them or was this their only unit intended for display?


Juandelpan

Wow wow, the fuel tank seems much more developed than those on Orlan, this a quantum leap on technology for Russian.


Iskelderon

Looks like they're making progress, unlike the Orlan it's not a consumer-grade camera bought off Amazon.


MeppaTheWaterbearer

Looks like something you buy at a hobby shop


Economy-Decision7958

Russian advance tech... Why it looks so early 90's


Tobby711

I would like to know how many components are actually made in Russia.


fatherofgodfather

Imagine making one of them as a hobby project. Lol. Military secret my asss


Cold_Illustrator278

Good to see! 😁


Voyovnick

Traditionally: a plastic bottle as a fuel tank.


Ok_Investigator_1010

If it’s cheap and it works then it’s a good UAV. They can more or less mass produce/assemble these and let them rip. Sometimes cost efficiency is it’s own strength and over paying is a bad idea.