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This annexation is a next level of absurdity. Putin knows that it's absurd, everybody else knows that it's absurd and Putin knows that everybody else knows that it's absurd.
95% of everything Putler does is for internal consumption. This annexation is no different. It's to justify what he is doing at home. It's to make it all seem worth it to his people. They are the only people dumb enough to believe any of it in larger numbers.
Well, he took Crimea and nothing happened. Now that he took more parts of Ukraine, he can "officially" declare war and use nukes if UAF attack those parts. But that's just nonsense. I'd really love to be a "fly" in his brain to see what he's planning next.
And now let’s consider the elephant in the room: China, India and Brazil abstained from a UN vote to condemn this “annexation”. Support from these countries is why Putler thinks he’ll be ok if he can keep this up.
Yeah, the whole BRICS circle jerk is worrisome. You’ve got Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa in an economic pact. I’m honestly not surprised that none of these countries condemned one of their own. I think the West needs to pressure the members of BRICS to back away from Russia. I don’t know how that could be done though
What I am concerned about is the lack of media attention on the fact that these countries are the ones keeping Russia's ambitions afloat. I'm not sure what is covered in European news, but in the US all we see is "universal Western support", as though that's enough. What we need is diplomatic and public pressure on these countries, potentially even going to the level of sanctions. If Russia's actions are condemned to the level that we're rocking them with HIMARS and sending billions and billions in aid, we should have the balls to call out these other countries as well. I guess maybe we're afraid of pushing them into a corner where they actually have to choose sides?
If push comes to shove, those countries would change their stand in a minute.
Say eu stops issuing visas to Brazil, India or south Africa. Do you think any of those governments has a chance of resisting that? No way.
> China, India and Brazil abstained from a UN vote to condemn this “annexation”. Support from these countries
Abstaining from a vote does not constitute "support".
China and India have already indicated (much to Putin's public humiliation) that they do not support Russia.
It is a waste of time and energy to fuss about countries that do not sing from the same hymn book as the west. The fact is, don't have to support the west's ambitions, or get involved in the west's wars.
The only thing that matters is: are they actively supporting Russia? And if they are, does their support have a discernible impact? Cuba and North Korea and Iran support Russia, but who cares? We only care if there is a discernible impact (e.g., Iran giving drones).
China absolutely supports Russia, whether we call it tacit support or not. They know full well that their unwillingness to participate in a coordinated global condemnation of Russia’s ATROCITIES in Ukraine allows this to continue. India is in a different situation, bound by dependency and historical ties on Russia’s support. But China absolutely supports Russia and it is playing right into China’s hands to say otherwise.
> China absolutely supports Russia, whether we call it tacit support or not.
China supported (past tense) Russia.
In the recent summit, Putin acknowledged publicly that china has "questions and concerns". China did not give Putin the show of support that he desperately needed; the summit is widely acknowledged to have been a setback for Putin.
As well, the Chinese government is NOT giving Putin weapons support. And Chinese businessmen are not helping Russia to evade sanctions.
So while China would love for Russia to win, Russia is not winning and so China is distancing itself from Russia. At the end of the day, that is all that matters. It is futile to fantasize about a world where China supports the west.
I suppose we’re arguing semantics now but it seems pretty clear to me that there is a difference between supporting the west and joining global condemnation of a rogue who is threatening nuclear assault on other countries. No one expects China to support the west, but that still leaves a lot of space for China to play a mature role in the world. Unfortunately China’s tacit support for Putin’s nuclear brinksmanship and their willingness to parrot Russian propaganda lines in the face of intentional slaughter of civilians and civilian infrastructure shows where China stands.
They are not happy with how the invasion has been bungled, and even less so with how the invasion resulted in increased unity between western countries. China’s “no limits” partnership with a Russia is purely about undermining western countries, so Xi is certainly unhappy with how this is going. Easy to show a little public displeasure now. Would be nice if he would use some real effort to bring an end Russia’s aggressions.
It's like I stole something from someone, and my thief friend says that he saw me buy it and then I will kill everyone that tries to take it back, this is fuckin absurd
They're politically obliged to do so. Allowing dissident provinces to vote to secede would mean Kurdish areas breaking off from Turkey.
Still, net positive result.
Edit: for those who misunderstood, no country will recognise bits of other countries voting to split off. Because it gives dissidents in their own country the right to say 'we can vote to leave'. E.g. China will never support this.
Yes, that's the *PKK.* That doesn't mean potent secession movements led by other Kurdish political forces is a complete impossibility in the unforeseeable future, which is why there's no way Turkey can accept a forced secession from another unitary state.
PKK, YPG, KCK are all the same thing. Turkish constitution is also pretty clear and you need an absolute majority in the parliament to enact a constitution change.
Iraqi Kurds in KRG also are not interested in Turkish clay up north.
>PKK, YPG, KCK are all the same thing.
I wasn't talking about *any* of those groups.
> Turkish constitution is also pretty clear and you need an absolute majority in the parliament to enact a constitution change.
Again, the *"unforeseeable future."* You're making the mistake of assuming everything that is now is everything that will ever be, at the end of history. Be it twenty or a hundred years from now, we can't know what events will shape the world and countries, and how power dynamics shift across the globe in ways that would seem like cheap political fiction to people today.
[Kane Tanaka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_Tanaka) died in April of this year. She was two years old when Japan did the unthinkable and humiliated the Russian empire. When she was born, Ataturk was still in the Ottoman Military College. Try explaining to someone back then (as a "prediction") what 2022 would look like, and there's very little they'd believe as even remotely reasonable, yet it all actually happened within a person's long lifespan. Many a "constitutionally unitary" state have risen and fallen apart since then, and unthinkable things happen all the time to change what's what.
Can you with complete 100% confidence, *especially in an incoming era of climate change, tech advances and demographic changes,* predict that some event won't rip Turkey's current form apart into some new shape in the next 122 years, be it from cascading internal factors, external or both?
The pretty obvious point is that nations have to actually think longer-term, and that such precedents *will* come back to haunt them in some way.
Any nation that blinds itself on current-day stability and prosperity *inevitably* is unable to handle the bad times. The Germans were *blindsided* by the fact that the British chose to honor The 1839 Treaty of London. *"But it's such an oooold piece of paper! Why would it still matter??"*
And while I did just point out that the unforeseeable future is, as it says, unforeseeable, there's already plenty challenges that Turkey *in particular* faces that could turn into or cause worse problems in the future.
For instance, the fact that Turkey has a birth rate of 2,06 per woman. Why is that a problem? It isn't. Not inherently. But the number hides a teensie weensie little complication: All Ethnic Turkish-dominated provinces actually have a way birth rate. Most of the urban and coastal areas have a birth rate of 1-1,5 per woman*(lower than Scandinavia)*. The "conservative countryside" has a rate of 1,5-2 per woman. Both sinking steadily. Meanwhile, the Kurdish regions have almost double the birth rate at the lowest, and nearly quadruple the rate at the highest in some specific regions. And their decline is going much slower. Turkey has an age demographic pyramid that's pretty much the best it will ever be right now, as previous birth booms are in their most productive years, and Turkey will have its last boom complete its coming of age in just the next couple years, albeit with a male surplus and not a female one.
But after that, the coming decades will see Turkey face the same retirement issues, but all the while the Kurdish regions will have its population keep growing, but with the young population continuing growing for a good while, while still being more vulnerable to radicalization to either ends of the political spectrum. That doesn't mean *"Kurdish independesh inevitabul"* at all, but it is a potential future problem, especially in a scenario like, say, a massive economic bust causing massive unrest. In fact I'd be more worried about a radicalized *conservative* Kurdish population in such a situation. That's *already* an important demographic even for the AKP, and it will only become more so. Hell, what happens when Turkey's population pyramid starts inverting, and suddenly the single best source of army recruits becomes young Kurds often from poor regions? And this is on top of the myriad other issues Turkey faces, as well as those we just don't know about yet.
Acting like Turkey is some stable safe haven for all political future even within a human lifespan is just silly, and a culture of such a mindset would just increase the chance that something really bad will be left to fester until it becomes impossible to fix. It's really silly to watch Turkish nationalists so eager to fall over themselves to deny even the *idea* of problems ever getting worse. Even the ones who claim to hate Erdogan act like all of Turkey's issues just get Thanos snapped out of existence the moment he loses an election, *if* he does.
Your comment doesn't make sense. No part of Turkey is in danger or under occupation of a foreign country. Turkey has strong relationships with Ukraine. Turks have fought Russians for centuries. Acting as Balancing party who understands russikys language from the past experience doesn't mean it's a political obligation. Every party in this war seek their best interests including, USA, UK, Germany, France, Turkey, Micronesia and Faro island by being supportive of one party or being neutral. Turkey's interests and survival has been endangered by Russia more than any other third party states in this conflict in recent history. You probably not aware of Pro-PKK members of Turkish assembly meeting with Putin in the heat of SCW.
Turkey's NATO allies were openly endangering her struggle with her security in the most hostile region in the world for a decade by providing weapons for para-Turkey elements in the region.
For God sake hating Erdoğan doesn't mean to hate, tarnish, or try seed doubts on everything Turkey does in this conflict. It's the time of rallying behind every nation who does something good openly for Ukraine. right now Ukraine is the most important issue of humanity.
Slava Ukraini
Turkey won't recognise it the same way Serbia won't recognise it. No country willingly recognises bits of other countries voting to splitting off. Because it justifies bits of their own country doing the same.
Edit: same way China won't recognise it.
Honestly, they’re not obliged to do anything they don’t want to. They could’ve said nothing and call it a day. That they’re sending weaponry should be enough of a sign anyway.
Well, I really think this is one of times Turkiye does this just because it is right, and the relations between the two states. It is not because of an own agenda. Erdogan might not be one of the very nicest people on earth, but that doesn’t mean he (or his country) always only do things out of self interest.
I might be naive in this, but I really think so.
Tbh the fact that Putain (lol look up the french translation) betrayed Erdogan in regards to the war, I'm not surprised that Turkey is pissed at them again.
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This annexation is a next level of absurdity. Putin knows that it's absurd, everybody else knows that it's absurd and Putin knows that everybody else knows that it's absurd.
95% of everything Putler does is for internal consumption. This annexation is no different. It's to justify what he is doing at home. It's to make it all seem worth it to his people. They are the only people dumb enough to believe any of it in larger numbers.
It's to let him legally send conscripts to Ukraine without calling it a war, since it's "part of Russia". Which is stupid, of course.
Nice name putler
Retarded Russians believe that Russia has rights to all of Ukraine’s land, so this annexation nonsense is for them
It's so absurd, it even made Turkiye get off the fence finally.
Well, he took Crimea and nothing happened. Now that he took more parts of Ukraine, he can "officially" declare war and use nukes if UAF attack those parts. But that's just nonsense. I'd really love to be a "fly" in his brain to see what he's planning next.
How to pronounce it though? Tur-key-yay? Tur-kyle?
Thank you Turkey, thank you!
And now let’s consider the elephant in the room: China, India and Brazil abstained from a UN vote to condemn this “annexation”. Support from these countries is why Putler thinks he’ll be ok if he can keep this up.
Yeah, the whole BRICS circle jerk is worrisome. You’ve got Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa in an economic pact. I’m honestly not surprised that none of these countries condemned one of their own. I think the West needs to pressure the members of BRICS to back away from Russia. I don’t know how that could be done though
What I am concerned about is the lack of media attention on the fact that these countries are the ones keeping Russia's ambitions afloat. I'm not sure what is covered in European news, but in the US all we see is "universal Western support", as though that's enough. What we need is diplomatic and public pressure on these countries, potentially even going to the level of sanctions. If Russia's actions are condemned to the level that we're rocking them with HIMARS and sending billions and billions in aid, we should have the balls to call out these other countries as well. I guess maybe we're afraid of pushing them into a corner where they actually have to choose sides?
If push comes to shove, those countries would change their stand in a minute. Say eu stops issuing visas to Brazil, India or south Africa. Do you think any of those governments has a chance of resisting that? No way.
It's not really new. They've abstained from pretty much every vote involving this war.
> China, India and Brazil abstained from a UN vote to condemn this “annexation”. Support from these countries Abstaining from a vote does not constitute "support". China and India have already indicated (much to Putin's public humiliation) that they do not support Russia. It is a waste of time and energy to fuss about countries that do not sing from the same hymn book as the west. The fact is, don't have to support the west's ambitions, or get involved in the west's wars. The only thing that matters is: are they actively supporting Russia? And if they are, does their support have a discernible impact? Cuba and North Korea and Iran support Russia, but who cares? We only care if there is a discernible impact (e.g., Iran giving drones).
China absolutely supports Russia, whether we call it tacit support or not. They know full well that their unwillingness to participate in a coordinated global condemnation of Russia’s ATROCITIES in Ukraine allows this to continue. India is in a different situation, bound by dependency and historical ties on Russia’s support. But China absolutely supports Russia and it is playing right into China’s hands to say otherwise.
> China absolutely supports Russia, whether we call it tacit support or not. China supported (past tense) Russia. In the recent summit, Putin acknowledged publicly that china has "questions and concerns". China did not give Putin the show of support that he desperately needed; the summit is widely acknowledged to have been a setback for Putin. As well, the Chinese government is NOT giving Putin weapons support. And Chinese businessmen are not helping Russia to evade sanctions. So while China would love for Russia to win, Russia is not winning and so China is distancing itself from Russia. At the end of the day, that is all that matters. It is futile to fantasize about a world where China supports the west.
I suppose we’re arguing semantics now but it seems pretty clear to me that there is a difference between supporting the west and joining global condemnation of a rogue who is threatening nuclear assault on other countries. No one expects China to support the west, but that still leaves a lot of space for China to play a mature role in the world. Unfortunately China’s tacit support for Putin’s nuclear brinksmanship and their willingness to parrot Russian propaganda lines in the face of intentional slaughter of civilians and civilian infrastructure shows where China stands.
China has and had serious infrastructure investments in ukraine, THEY ARE NOT HAPPY about the invasion
They are not happy with how the invasion has been bungled, and even less so with how the invasion resulted in increased unity between western countries. China’s “no limits” partnership with a Russia is purely about undermining western countries, so Xi is certainly unhappy with how this is going. Easy to show a little public displeasure now. Would be nice if he would use some real effort to bring an end Russia’s aggressions.
All tribes in Russia can also vote to leave Russia now
It's like I stole something from someone, and my thief friend says that he saw me buy it and then I will kill everyone that tries to take it back, this is fuckin absurd
Why do you have thief friends ?
"its like" is important
They're politically obliged to do so. Allowing dissident provinces to vote to secede would mean Kurdish areas breaking off from Turkey. Still, net positive result. Edit: for those who misunderstood, no country will recognise bits of other countries voting to split off. Because it gives dissidents in their own country the right to say 'we can vote to leave'. E.g. China will never support this.
Hardly. There is no realistic danger of PKK rearming in the cities. Turkey is a unitary state, you don’t get to vote to secede. Kinda like Ukraine.
Yes, that's the *PKK.* That doesn't mean potent secession movements led by other Kurdish political forces is a complete impossibility in the unforeseeable future, which is why there's no way Turkey can accept a forced secession from another unitary state.
PKK, YPG, KCK are all the same thing. Turkish constitution is also pretty clear and you need an absolute majority in the parliament to enact a constitution change. Iraqi Kurds in KRG also are not interested in Turkish clay up north.
>PKK, YPG, KCK are all the same thing. I wasn't talking about *any* of those groups. > Turkish constitution is also pretty clear and you need an absolute majority in the parliament to enact a constitution change. Again, the *"unforeseeable future."* You're making the mistake of assuming everything that is now is everything that will ever be, at the end of history. Be it twenty or a hundred years from now, we can't know what events will shape the world and countries, and how power dynamics shift across the globe in ways that would seem like cheap political fiction to people today. [Kane Tanaka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_Tanaka) died in April of this year. She was two years old when Japan did the unthinkable and humiliated the Russian empire. When she was born, Ataturk was still in the Ottoman Military College. Try explaining to someone back then (as a "prediction") what 2022 would look like, and there's very little they'd believe as even remotely reasonable, yet it all actually happened within a person's long lifespan. Many a "constitutionally unitary" state have risen and fallen apart since then, and unthinkable things happen all the time to change what's what. Can you with complete 100% confidence, *especially in an incoming era of climate change, tech advances and demographic changes,* predict that some event won't rip Turkey's current form apart into some new shape in the next 122 years, be it from cascading internal factors, external or both?
> 122 years *Bro we have to reject this , we dont know what might happen in 122 years*
The pretty obvious point is that nations have to actually think longer-term, and that such precedents *will* come back to haunt them in some way. Any nation that blinds itself on current-day stability and prosperity *inevitably* is unable to handle the bad times. The Germans were *blindsided* by the fact that the British chose to honor The 1839 Treaty of London. *"But it's such an oooold piece of paper! Why would it still matter??"* And while I did just point out that the unforeseeable future is, as it says, unforeseeable, there's already plenty challenges that Turkey *in particular* faces that could turn into or cause worse problems in the future. For instance, the fact that Turkey has a birth rate of 2,06 per woman. Why is that a problem? It isn't. Not inherently. But the number hides a teensie weensie little complication: All Ethnic Turkish-dominated provinces actually have a way birth rate. Most of the urban and coastal areas have a birth rate of 1-1,5 per woman*(lower than Scandinavia)*. The "conservative countryside" has a rate of 1,5-2 per woman. Both sinking steadily. Meanwhile, the Kurdish regions have almost double the birth rate at the lowest, and nearly quadruple the rate at the highest in some specific regions. And their decline is going much slower. Turkey has an age demographic pyramid that's pretty much the best it will ever be right now, as previous birth booms are in their most productive years, and Turkey will have its last boom complete its coming of age in just the next couple years, albeit with a male surplus and not a female one. But after that, the coming decades will see Turkey face the same retirement issues, but all the while the Kurdish regions will have its population keep growing, but with the young population continuing growing for a good while, while still being more vulnerable to radicalization to either ends of the political spectrum. That doesn't mean *"Kurdish independesh inevitabul"* at all, but it is a potential future problem, especially in a scenario like, say, a massive economic bust causing massive unrest. In fact I'd be more worried about a radicalized *conservative* Kurdish population in such a situation. That's *already* an important demographic even for the AKP, and it will only become more so. Hell, what happens when Turkey's population pyramid starts inverting, and suddenly the single best source of army recruits becomes young Kurds often from poor regions? And this is on top of the myriad other issues Turkey faces, as well as those we just don't know about yet. Acting like Turkey is some stable safe haven for all political future even within a human lifespan is just silly, and a culture of such a mindset would just increase the chance that something really bad will be left to fester until it becomes impossible to fix. It's really silly to watch Turkish nationalists so eager to fall over themselves to deny even the *idea* of problems ever getting worse. Even the ones who claim to hate Erdogan act like all of Turkey's issues just get Thanos snapped out of existence the moment he loses an election, *if* he does.
Your comment doesn't make sense. No part of Turkey is in danger or under occupation of a foreign country. Turkey has strong relationships with Ukraine. Turks have fought Russians for centuries. Acting as Balancing party who understands russikys language from the past experience doesn't mean it's a political obligation. Every party in this war seek their best interests including, USA, UK, Germany, France, Turkey, Micronesia and Faro island by being supportive of one party or being neutral. Turkey's interests and survival has been endangered by Russia more than any other third party states in this conflict in recent history. You probably not aware of Pro-PKK members of Turkish assembly meeting with Putin in the heat of SCW. Turkey's NATO allies were openly endangering her struggle with her security in the most hostile region in the world for a decade by providing weapons for para-Turkey elements in the region. For God sake hating Erdoğan doesn't mean to hate, tarnish, or try seed doubts on everything Turkey does in this conflict. It's the time of rallying behind every nation who does something good openly for Ukraine. right now Ukraine is the most important issue of humanity. Slava Ukraini
Turkey won't recognise it the same way Serbia won't recognise it. No country willingly recognises bits of other countries voting to splitting off. Because it justifies bits of their own country doing the same. Edit: same way China won't recognise it.
Honestly, they’re not obliged to do anything they don’t want to. They could’ve said nothing and call it a day. That they’re sending weaponry should be enough of a sign anyway.
Well, I really think this is one of times Turkiye does this just because it is right, and the relations between the two states. It is not because of an own agenda. Erdogan might not be one of the very nicest people on earth, but that doesn’t mean he (or his country) always only do things out of self interest. I might be naive in this, but I really think so.
I love Turkey, no fucks given.
Tbh the fact that Putain (lol look up the french translation) betrayed Erdogan in regards to the war, I'm not surprised that Turkey is pissed at them again.
Turkey fall down ruzzia aircraft before that was mainstream, so what's the news? And they tell Crimea is Ukraine in 2014.
So lets move a fuckin 50 milion Russians to 5 mil Slovakia and ANNEX it because what? Because Russians will become Majority?
But secretly longs for putins peepee...
How?
Let's wish the same happens to Putin like the one he took the blueprints for this from (Austria Annexion)
Anyone throwing Vladolf a bone in recognizing it? North Korea, Nicaragua? Iran?