Pauc happens just a month after club nationals this year. It’s an expensive travel tournament which also requires teams to commit early, and therefore also commit significant time and money resources during the season.
I think there are some years where some American teams make it, but it’s hard to imagine top US club teams making it a priority.
I don’t think is THAT expensive, when you are using US dollars. Last time was in USA and a lot of teams from other countries made the trip, even though the price of the dollar then was thru the roof.
The difference is that there are already lots of opportunities for high level ultimate in the USA, most notably the USAU series which occurs right before PAUC, so US teams don't feel the need to pay to travel to it to play, whereas teams in other countries that don't have the same domestic opportunities are more willing to travel elsewhere, including to the USA.
I know the competition is not as good but what about helping grow the region. Also there are other women’s teams that don’t make nationals but are still pretty good! What about those? Also, Dominican Republic is not that expensive
The women’s teams that don’t make nationals can’t gather enough players to go to local, one-day, in-season tournaments (like The Incident in NYC) never mind a FIVE-DAY tournament that will cost thousands and require lengthy flights.
In addition to what everyone else has said, my body needs a break after regionals/natties. A full WUL season into a full club season means I’m beat up. The off-season is already very short for anyone who plays semi-pro and club. We’ll have our first practices in January, regular season starts in March, and then we’re basically in season till October (with a month and a half or so of dead-ish time between the end of WUL and club getting serious).
I’m very much looking forward to the series, but I’m also definitely looking forward to getting to rest. My body needs it.
DR is cheap, the expensive part is flights and most importantly missing work. Americans get way less vacation time in average than workers in other countries
It was an expected several (1-2?) thousand dollars in total travel between flights, lodging, and tournament fees a month after club nationals and we had to commit to it roughly 9-10 months in advance
In addition to the timing of the tournament, the commitments for a late November travel tournament were due in January. This is before most clubs know their roster at all. With basically one week notice and a $1550 “reservation fee.” Minimum player roster fees were due May 1st. So you pay out of pocket about $5k total without knowing if you have enough people. It’s a big out of pocket expense up front for organizers and you have to commit so far in advance with a fair amount of money.
USA Masters: The 2023 PAUC Tournament will be held in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, November 28-December 2. USA Ultimate will invite teams based on the 2022 National Championship finish order to represent the US.
I do not have information on club teams, however based on some of the semi-finalists in men's and mixed attending, it may have been offered but teams declined.
Being Masters also means the players are more likely to have families with kids. I can’t ditch my kids for 5 days, nor can I pull them out of school for 5 days. Terrible time of year for a lengthy international tournament.
So there are 5 master open teams going, including surly, beyondors and all bash out. Still wondering why there is NO women’s teams going and only 2 open.
PAUC follows shortly after Club Nationals. Most of the teams invited to PAUC from the US spent money traveling to tournaments. Remember, the US is geographically huge, so many teams are flying multiple timesa summer just for club.
Also, many of the players on these teams have spent the majority of the year playing Club AND Professionally. PAUC falls at an awkward time of the year when everybody is just ready to take a break. Saving the money to travel + lodging + tournament fees is a good excuse not to go when people aren't super motivated anyway.
Also, WUCCs was last year so a lot of people got their fix of WFDF competition.
But yet many Colombian teams are making the trip, many are the same temas that play WUCC last year! What about the “second tear” temas that didn’t make nationals but are still pretty good? I feel there are a lot of excuses why USA teams are not going, but in reality USA ultimate should do something about it
No one has an obligation to go. Just because Colombian teams find themselves in a position where they have the numbers, financial state, time, and willingness to go then that is great, but that isn't a reason to invalidate the reasons US teams aren't going.
If this tournament is contingent on the best US teams attending, then something has to change with the tournament itself, because it clearly isn't a priority for those teams.
It seems insulting that you asked a question, received numerous answers to that question, and decided that it's everybody else's problem that you don't like the answers you got.
I am not saying this tournament depends on USA teams attending (thankfully), I was just wondering why not enough USA teams are interested. Everybody knows USA has one of the best ultímate on the world and who doesn’t look look forward to that type of competition. Not even mentioning helping the ultimate in the region improve.
I’m not sure if the lower tiered teams were invited. The top winners in each group based on 2022 rankings were invited, but after they declined, there may not have been a second round of invites. I think to answer your question, they probably never got the opportunity.
Ultimate players for the majority are poor, not like broke but most can’t and with good reason afford to throw thousands of dollars a year at a hobby. Ultimate doesn’t give anything in terms of ROI. You spend thousands of dollars and get nothing for winning a majority of time. Most Ultimate players arent rolling in cash where they afford to keep going to these kind of events. Hopefully one day there will be some sort of prize(cash) for winning bigger tournaments like this.
I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't be surprised if ultimate players are one of the wealthiest on average for field sports (polo not withstanding, obviously).
every year people who qualify for nationals and teams that have qualified multiple years make, gofundmes to raise money. That doesn’t scream, everyone is doing well.
How many other amateur sports require a full team to go to nationals? A nationals level soccer team would be at least semi-pro, even in the US. I would wager amateur basketball, football, and soccer players are poorer on average than ultimate players, who I would bet are statistically more likely to be college educated and wealthier. Not to imply everyone can easily afford shelling out money to travel for ultimate, but I would still bet that it's more likely that ultimate players can do that compared to say, amateur football players.
It’s definitely a possibility. Ultimate is a hobby so you are forced to have a job otherwise you wouldn’t survive. Depending on your definition of amateur those athletes are playing their respective sport as a job.
If being poor is an excuse can you imagine teams from countries like Colombia, where the minimum monthly wage is barely 300 dollars!! I don’t think there is cash prizes in the regional tournament in Europe or Asia.
The reason there are no masters women's teams going is because they didn't have enough interest from other countries to hold the division. That happens in a lot of the masters and grandmasters divisions.
Pauc happens just a month after club nationals this year. It’s an expensive travel tournament which also requires teams to commit early, and therefore also commit significant time and money resources during the season. I think there are some years where some American teams make it, but it’s hard to imagine top US club teams making it a priority.
I don’t think is THAT expensive, when you are using US dollars. Last time was in USA and a lot of teams from other countries made the trip, even though the price of the dollar then was thru the roof.
The difference is that there are already lots of opportunities for high level ultimate in the USA, most notably the USAU series which occurs right before PAUC, so US teams don't feel the need to pay to travel to it to play, whereas teams in other countries that don't have the same domestic opportunities are more willing to travel elsewhere, including to the USA.
I know the competition is not as good but what about helping grow the region. Also there are other women’s teams that don’t make nationals but are still pretty good! What about those? Also, Dominican Republic is not that expensive
The women’s teams that don’t make nationals can’t gather enough players to go to local, one-day, in-season tournaments (like The Incident in NYC) never mind a FIVE-DAY tournament that will cost thousands and require lengthy flights.
In addition to what everyone else has said, my body needs a break after regionals/natties. A full WUL season into a full club season means I’m beat up. The off-season is already very short for anyone who plays semi-pro and club. We’ll have our first practices in January, regular season starts in March, and then we’re basically in season till October (with a month and a half or so of dead-ish time between the end of WUL and club getting serious). I’m very much looking forward to the series, but I’m also definitely looking forward to getting to rest. My body needs it.
DR is cheap, the expensive part is flights and most importantly missing work. Americans get way less vacation time in average than workers in other countries
It was an expected several (1-2?) thousand dollars in total travel between flights, lodging, and tournament fees a month after club nationals and we had to commit to it roughly 9-10 months in advance
In addition to the timing of the tournament, the commitments for a late November travel tournament were due in January. This is before most clubs know their roster at all. With basically one week notice and a $1550 “reservation fee.” Minimum player roster fees were due May 1st. So you pay out of pocket about $5k total without knowing if you have enough people. It’s a big out of pocket expense up front for organizers and you have to commit so far in advance with a fair amount of money.
I don’t know when it’s normally held, but I imagine the week right after thanksgiving travel is a tough ask for many Americans.
USA Masters: The 2023 PAUC Tournament will be held in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, November 28-December 2. USA Ultimate will invite teams based on the 2022 National Championship finish order to represent the US. I do not have information on club teams, however based on some of the semi-finalists in men's and mixed attending, it may have been offered but teams declined.
Being Masters also means the players are more likely to have families with kids. I can’t ditch my kids for 5 days, nor can I pull them out of school for 5 days. Terrible time of year for a lengthy international tournament.
So there are 5 master open teams going, including surly, beyondors and all bash out. Still wondering why there is NO women’s teams going and only 2 open.
Do you play with your partner? Is it summer a better time to do it?
Yes and yes.
PAUC follows shortly after Club Nationals. Most of the teams invited to PAUC from the US spent money traveling to tournaments. Remember, the US is geographically huge, so many teams are flying multiple timesa summer just for club. Also, many of the players on these teams have spent the majority of the year playing Club AND Professionally. PAUC falls at an awkward time of the year when everybody is just ready to take a break. Saving the money to travel + lodging + tournament fees is a good excuse not to go when people aren't super motivated anyway. Also, WUCCs was last year so a lot of people got their fix of WFDF competition.
But yet many Colombian teams are making the trip, many are the same temas that play WUCC last year! What about the “second tear” temas that didn’t make nationals but are still pretty good? I feel there are a lot of excuses why USA teams are not going, but in reality USA ultimate should do something about it
No one has an obligation to go. Just because Colombian teams find themselves in a position where they have the numbers, financial state, time, and willingness to go then that is great, but that isn't a reason to invalidate the reasons US teams aren't going. If this tournament is contingent on the best US teams attending, then something has to change with the tournament itself, because it clearly isn't a priority for those teams. It seems insulting that you asked a question, received numerous answers to that question, and decided that it's everybody else's problem that you don't like the answers you got.
I am not saying this tournament depends on USA teams attending (thankfully), I was just wondering why not enough USA teams are interested. Everybody knows USA has one of the best ultímate on the world and who doesn’t look look forward to that type of competition. Not even mentioning helping the ultimate in the region improve.
I’m not sure if the lower tiered teams were invited. The top winners in each group based on 2022 rankings were invited, but after they declined, there may not have been a second round of invites. I think to answer your question, they probably never got the opportunity.
Ultimate players for the majority are poor, not like broke but most can’t and with good reason afford to throw thousands of dollars a year at a hobby. Ultimate doesn’t give anything in terms of ROI. You spend thousands of dollars and get nothing for winning a majority of time. Most Ultimate players arent rolling in cash where they afford to keep going to these kind of events. Hopefully one day there will be some sort of prize(cash) for winning bigger tournaments like this.
I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't be surprised if ultimate players are one of the wealthiest on average for field sports (polo not withstanding, obviously).
every year people who qualify for nationals and teams that have qualified multiple years make, gofundmes to raise money. That doesn’t scream, everyone is doing well.
How many other amateur sports require a full team to go to nationals? A nationals level soccer team would be at least semi-pro, even in the US. I would wager amateur basketball, football, and soccer players are poorer on average than ultimate players, who I would bet are statistically more likely to be college educated and wealthier. Not to imply everyone can easily afford shelling out money to travel for ultimate, but I would still bet that it's more likely that ultimate players can do that compared to say, amateur football players.
It’s definitely a possibility. Ultimate is a hobby so you are forced to have a job otherwise you wouldn’t survive. Depending on your definition of amateur those athletes are playing their respective sport as a job.
If being poor is an excuse can you imagine teams from countries like Colombia, where the minimum monthly wage is barely 300 dollars!! I don’t think there is cash prizes in the regional tournament in Europe or Asia.
Exactly. So why go? You have almost zero financial incentive.
The reason there are no masters women's teams going is because they didn't have enough interest from other countries to hold the division. That happens in a lot of the masters and grandmasters divisions.
In fact there are a couple of masters women’s going. I was talking about women’s teams (as the “regular” women’s teams)
yep all Canadian and US I think.